world. >> hi, world. >> that's it for us tonight. thank you for watching this special edition of the factor. i am bill o'reilly and please always remember the spin stops right here. we are out for you. we are looking out for you. welcome to the "kelly file." special, the immigration issue. i'm shannon bream. the hot 2016 trail, immigration. the challenges are enormous. how to stop the flow of illegal immigrants and what to do about the 11 million. >> we need to secure our borders? enforce our laws? no amnesty. go forward with the legal

immigration system. >> build the wall. let people know if they come here illegally, they're going back. >> you need an entry/exit tracking system and all sort of other things. >> it makes no sense right now that we have millions of people coming here illegally to this country. and that current law grants their children citizenship. >> everything should be on the table to be discussed to try to make sure what we do is we have the most effective system we can to end what has been happening in this country which is having people come here illegally. the folks who come legally should be the wugs who been if it the most. >> border control needs the, too much influence from washington, d.c. >> we need our federal immigration laws enforced never city including san francisco. it is shameful that sanctuary cities exist. >> it really goes back to something that i hate so much.

that's political correctness. that keeps us from being able to do what needs to be done to secure our borders. >> the candidates taking the most heat for his assistance on immigration, donald trump. he dove head first into the fray on day one of his campaign. >> when mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. they're sending people that have lots of problems. and they're bringing those problems with us. they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're the rapists and some i assume are good people. >> tonight we examine what the candidates are proposing and whether their ideas will work and what the current situation really looks like on our southern border. but first, a closer look at one of the most controversial proposals. donald trump's suggestion that as president he would seek to force all illegal immigrants in the u.s. to leave.

it was one of the terrifying and despicable images of the holocaust to go after republicans on this very issue. >> i find at this time height of irony that a party that espouses small government would want to unleash a massive law enforcement effort, including perhaps, national guard and others to go and literally pull people out of their homes and their work places, round them up, put them, i don't know, in buses, box cars, in order to take them across our border. i find that not only absurd but appalling. >> mark is a fox contributor. i want to start by asking you, maybe i missed it. which candidate has proposed using national guardsmen to use

drag them out of their houses and put them in, quote, box cars? >> not a single one. yesterday hillary clinton compared republicans to terrorists. today she is comparing them to nazis saying republicans want to take immigrants and put them box cars? one that reeks of desperation. two, it reeks of hypocrisy. it was her husband who spent federal agents with machine gowns bust down the doors of a home to drag ethan go thathan g throw him back into cuba. so if she is worried about knocking on doors and them out of country, she should talk to her husband. >> how worried should we be? the box terminology, most people out there are going to think the holocaust. that is the last image anybody wants to be used. and frankly, across the

spectrum, when people make those rempblss or reference nazis or hitler, they are roundly denounced. usually when they do it. >> she's done it two days in a row. yesterday it was al qaeda. people who are pro-life have the same ideology. who are concerned about katesteinle being shot by an illegal immigrant. this is unfit for a presidential campaign and it is desperation. she is so decembsperatedesperat. that she might be indicted, she is using the most heinous language you could have in a presidential campaign. >> so let's talk about the underlying issues here, there idea of mass deportation. people criticize this all the time. truch in laying out his policy, there was no actual wording calling for mass deportation.

but it is an idea that he's discussed in context, talking about they have to go, your head will spin so fast these people will be gone. then we'll let the good ones back in. you say that this is really not that farout. if you're at ideas propose asked gotten some bipartisan approval in the past, depending on if that is what trump means. >> and people are very focused on his rhetoric which is heated. what he's proposed when you talk about it, exactly what you said. to make people leave the country and then good ones, meaning people without criminal records, can be expedited back in the country so they can stay here permanently and work and not have to leave. that is a proposal that has been endorsed by "the new york times," voted on by the united states senate, nearly passed, and five democrats voted in favor of it. it is called tuxback. back in 2007, senator hutchinson

offered a bill that would have allowed people, every illegal green if they want to stay here, has to go back to the country and apply for a advise and then come back in. it was defeated 53-45. a very close vote. five democrats voted for that. are they nazis? that's what you're saying about them. >> quickly, a couple of other ton tier contenders. dr. carson says some segments would collapse if you did get here tens of millions to leave the country. they're just here seeking a better life. jeb bush has talked about what he believes, it is not realistic. it would cost hundreds of millions and violate civil liberties and create friction with mexico, our trading partner. fair criticisms? >> no. i don't think they are. trump's rhetoric is much more heated. he keeps saying is i i have a

big heart. he is talking about touchback amnesty. it is a form of amnesty ept you have to go out of the country to get it. it was actually attacked. it was endorsed by the new york times. they said it is not ideal. but if it is manageable and reassures people that illegal graegs are going back to the line, it is defensible. national review attacked it. they said it was a fraud that would allow illegal immigrants to cut the line and have back door amnesty. this was endorsed by "the new york times" and attacked by national review. it is not that radical. >> the new york time and donald trump on the same page about immigration? we'll have to dig into that at the same time. good to see you. thank you. one of the most controversial proposals being discussed is the idea of building a wall to. >> span the entire southern

border. and also we'll ask rich lowry why he thinks the tone of the debates is the real problem. >> earlier in the year i was on fox news sunday and laid out what i thought we should do. secure the border, build the wall, make sure it is safe and secure. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? it's from virtually anywhere.rn of danger it's been smashed, dropped and driven. it's perceptive enough to detect other vehicles on the road. it's been shaken, rattled and pummeled. it's innovative enough to brake by itself,

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one of the most divisive issues when it comes to immigration is the idea of build of the most divisive issues when it come to immigration is the idea of building a wall along our entire border with mexico. hundreds of mile of fence have been built with a price tag of $7 billion. we're hearing more and more voices suggesting if they find themselves in the oval office, the bigger wall will be exactly what voters get. >> we know how to do that. we've done in it some parts of the border and not enough other parts of the border because people are coming in. it is more fencing and building a wall. >> yes, we need to build a a wall and you need technology and sensors and you need heat flared technology. >> earlier on the year i was on fox news sunday and laid out what i thought we should do. secure the border, build the wall, make sure it is safe and secure. >> first we ought to finish the

fence. >> we build a fence where it needs to be built. >> i will build the greatest wall that you've ever seen. >> i'm talking about a wall. see that ceiling up there? higher. >> rich lowry is a fox news contributor and editor. we heard from him earlier. he said china did it 2,000 years ago, what's the big deal? he said it won't be a fence. it will be a high wall. and he'll make mexico pay for it. >> the most beautiful wall we've ever seen. >> we definitely need more structure on the border. a lot of the fencing is just vehicle fencing that is not meant to stop people. a lot of it isn't double fencing. but it doesn't make a lot of is enls to build the great wall of china in the middle of nowhere. if you want to get more bang for the buck, we need the political

will to enforce the laws that we have now. in the central american border surge, a lot of them voluntarily surrendered to a border patrol agent. it wasn't getting stopped and not stopped. they were out border patrol agents because they knew they had to be waved in. most don't show up. and all the time isis coming across illegally in jails and doesn't do anything about it. that's where the interior enforcement is where we should focus more. it is very easy for everyone to say, the border, the border, the fence, the fence. >> and chris christie has said beware of anyone who tells you we'll build a wall across the whole border. it won't work. it is a good sound bite but not good policy. senator marco rubio has said,

let's look at the visa stay problem. 4 in 10 got in not by coming across an open area but by a visa. there's no exit tracking and they don't leave. >> so even if you have the great wall of china, you're going to have half the population of illegal immigrants coming in. ultimately the magnet is jobs. that's why you need the e-verify system to choke it off at the point of employment. if you do that, then it doesn't matter what you have at the border and what you don't. that tends real magnet. >> why do you think we don't have more states that are mandating that? it sounds like a common sense things. if employers are getting punished for taking advantage of them, there are only a handful of states. >> you look at the polling and

it is really popular. employers are very powerful. the claim better of commerce is very powerful. they don't want to deal with this. they consider it undue regulation. and they like the cheem labor. that's the dirty little secret. >> on this issue, this is one where jeb bush has gone after trump saying he is not really conservative. if you were, you wouldn't mandate spending billions of dollars the government doesn't have to put up a wall that won't necessarily boring because it will cost money the country doesn't have. >> i wouldn't say it is under conservative. i think it is imprudent. and at least on the scale that trump is talking about. the more important issues to consider and enforce, not quite so simplistic. >> looking at that visa problem, thank you for coming in. while it has rarely been in

the news anymore, we are continuing on see tens of thousands of immigrants. >> entering illegally. how are they getting here sf what does it cost the taxpayers? we'll investigate what's happening with we return. >> come here illegally. unless you qualify for some form of humanitarian relief, we will send you back. hungry equals overshopping. at&t and directv are now one.

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when something works, people stick with it. more people stick with humana medicare advantage. because we stick with them. humana medicare advantage. the plan people stick with. our border is not open to illegal our border is not open to illegal migration. and our message to those who are coming here left fieldly, to those who are contemplating coming here left fieldly, into south texas, we will send you back. >> that was homeland security jay johnson roughly a year ago after we witnessed immigrants at

the border. recent statistics reveal we are still seeing tens of thousands of kids and families pouring across the border. what actually happens to all of them? what does it to the united states? >> so we know that a lot of these, if there are children involved, they end up in detention centers while they wait for processing. as william reported, some of these families, 84% of them, when they were allowed to stay free instead of hanging around, they didn't ever show up. that's a problem. now administration has a problem because a federal judge has said they can't hold them in the detention centers, only for very long periods of time. so where do they go? >> they weren't holding that many of them. a small number of these families they were holding, basically pending the immigration hearings to make sure they showed up.

a judge has now said they have to be let go by next month. what will happen is they're going to drop them off at a bus station and they'll go and with a piece of payment saying, please show up for your hearing on such and such a date, they'll join their relatives and never be seen from again. the overwhelming majority of these families coming across in the border surge don't show up. why would you? people who show up for immigration hearings are people who have a pretty good expectation that they're going to win. they're going on get some kind of a green card or asylum or they're going to be allowed to stay. if you figure, i don't have much of a chance of prevailing, why would you show up? if you lose, you get deported. if you run off and years later the immigration service finds you, maybe under some other

administration. this administration won't even look for them. what is the latest that will happen to you? you get sent back. so of course they won't show up. >> what about secretary johnson says if you come here, you don't get to stay. the administration says it is running ads in other countries trying to tell people, don't come here, don't risk sending your kids with coyotes. what is the disincentive? >> not much. those ads are on the internet. there are radio ads down. there other kinds of thing in central mexico and they say just this. if you are taught at the border, you will be deported. maybe somebody is listen to this on the radio. you get a call from your brother-in-law in washington, d.c. area who came through. and he says, they just let us go with a piece of payment and

we'll ignore the paper and nobody is for us any way. so which will you believe if you're a person in honduras saying, considering, should i move illegally to the u.s.? are you going to listen to the u.s. government ads or to your own relatives and neighbor who's say the ads are baloney? the could n i'm going to go ahead and give it a try. >> we're almost out of time. the federal judge talked about the conditions in which these kids were being held. so they don't fit with the court order from 15 years bag said they have to have certain conditions. it can't be like they're in prison. any compassion to that argument by the judge? >> if the conditions need to be improved because they're intolerable, we have to do what we have to do. the idea that if you come with a

child, you are basically home free and let go is outrageous and in the long run, it is harmful. it will lead to trafficking, to people pretending this is their kid to use them for illegal immigration. it's easy to ring your hands and emotor. >> it is very complex on so many levels. great to see you. thanks so much. new reaction to the debate over birth right citizenship and the 14th amendment. does it really mean the children of illegal immigrants are u.s. citizens? the form he justice attorney is here. plus -- >> i'll use the word anchor baby. >> the language, is that not bombastic? >> no, it isn't. >> weighing in on the

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new reaction tonight to the latest debate dividing the republican 2016 field. should children born in the new reaction to the latest debate. should children born in the united states to illegal immigrant parents automatically be granted u.s. citizenship? that's the case right now. raising questions for many when it comes to our 14th amendment which states that all persons born or naturalized in the united states and subject to the jurisdiction there of, are citizens of the united states and of the state where in they reside. joining me now, former justice department attorney. good to see you. i have an inbox full, a facebook page full, twitter feed full of

people on both sides of the issue. there is not another issue that both sides are 100% convinced that they are right. what do you think? >> well, it's not an easy issue but there is an answer. i would suggest people read the cases. probably the most important thing to realize is that the supreme court of the united states has never confronted the issue. never taken the issue of whether there is birth right citizenship, whether or not a person born in the united states you understand the 14th amendment is automatically a citizen them dagsed around the issue. they've come close but never actually confronted it. the 14th amendment says and subject to the jurisdiction of the united states. that's important. so it is people who avail themselves to the united states. that does not mean foreign invading armies. that does not mean foreign ambassador's children. that does not mean possibly the

children of illegal aliens. they're sort of more like an i '58ing army than anything else. >> we keep hearing this quote going back to senator howard from around this time frame when they were putting it together. he said it will not include persons born in the united states who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors on, and on. some will say the guy behind this, their argument is he never intend there'd to provide, foreigners or aliens. there are others who say the supreme court didn't decide the merits on this but there is a footnote. that says if you're born here, you're a citizen. that's it. do you think this goes to the courts? or do you point to those who point to article 1, section 8, clause 4. and says congress is the one that has to solve this. >> congress has enormous power of the 14th amendment. they were given power to

basically decide more or less what the 14 amendment is. so congress can, i believe, fix this problem. shannon, who is benefitting from birth right citizenship now? ask yourself that. it is almost entirely the children of illegal aliens. there are very few people benefiting from it who aren't somehow here illegally. so it is something that congress ought to decide. it is something the vast majority of the american people want to end because it doesn't seem very fair. the constitution doesn't have a fair answer and that's when congress needs to step in. >> do you think these guys and gals will be able to do that? there's a lot they can't seem to agree on. i cannot imagine getting democrats and republicans on the same side about many things. certainly not birth right citizenship. >> yeah. and it is one of the great disconnects between what most americans think and people this washington, d.c. think. if you talk on most americans,

they don't think that people who come here illegally should get a reward and their children are taken care of the rest their life because they decided to break the lawful it is tremendously unbopopular and its not in the constitution. >> there needs to be some clarification by congress, or the supreme court. you may not agree on which body should do it but there is plenty of dispute. >> thank you. have a good night. >> aid many controversy over this issue, birth right citizenship, another battle is brewing over what the children born to illegal immigrants should be called. some are using the term anchor babies to describe them. some are saying it is highly offensive yet a number of people are not shying away. >> are you aware that the term anchor baby, that's an offensive term. >> you mean it is not politically correct and yet

everybody uses it? give me a different term. what else would you like to say? >> the american born child of undocumented immigration. >> i'll use the word anchor baby. >> do you regret using the word anchor babies yesterday. >> no. i don't regret it. do you have a better term? you give me a better term and i'll use it. don't yell at me behind my ear though. >> the language anchor baby, is that not bombastic? >> no. >> i think folks today are too easily offended, too politically correct. i'm happy to use the term. >> joining me now, the executive director of the hispanic society. good to see you both tonight. chris, you are conservative hispanic gentleman so i'll start

with you. what are your thoughts? what do you think others feel about this term? >> well, my thoughts about the term is inskre descriptive so i don't see the problem. when i say anchor backer everybody knows which subset of america we're talking about. we've seen it in other examples. the term migrant. i always say illegal alien, or illegal immigrant to be more specific. we have to stop getting caught up on the semantics and start getting caught up on fixing it. >> what about there editing of our language? at what point, is somebody not descriptive and accurate? >> the american dictionary says it is a slur.

you're taking an innocent child, by at this way, anchor babies, if that's what you want to call them, they're good for the united states because they become taxpayers. if you're an american citizen, even if you're a child born because of birth tourism. >> hold on. >> even if you're born because of birth tourism, your family, you are a life paying american taxpayer. that's good for the american tax. in 2012 millions were paid in taxes. >> we had a study from the central for immigration studies that says 71% of households with illegal immigrant parents who do have children who are here and are u.s. citizens, are on some kind of government stands. we have the tax base that he is

referring to. then there are those who twoir drain on society is a net negative. >> it is not a grain. >> wait, gentlemen? gentlemen? >> chris? >> all right. so look. the babies start off as a drain on the system, first off. it will take about 18 years before they can be productive for society. the term anchor babies, you just, it means the child can remain in the country you'dizing the birth right citizenship which shouldn't be given to the child because we know the origins of the 14th amendment. but they use that child to be anchored to the country and access benefits. milton friedman had a fantastic analysis. we had unlimited immigration pre

1914, 1912. we didn't have the entitlement state. now that becomes unsustainable. choose. you can have your entitlement state or unrestricted immigration. but you can't have both. >> there is a net benefit from those here without documentation. th they are not a drain on us and in fact a benefit. they are taxpayers. they pay local state taxes, sales taxes. they give more than they take back. >> that's not true. >> that is true. >> how do you respond that the household numbers are so high when it does turn. >> most are coming and working and paying taxes. then not a drain them contribute

more. many of them pay in. >> whoa! >> i'm not dur. they pay into it but don't get benefits. they live under the radar. they can't go to emergency rooms. they're afraid on call the cops. >> now, allen, you know they go to emergency rooms. that is a fact. they doing to emergency rooms. as a matter of fact,obamacare, the big, they go into the community health care centers and nobody is checking i.d.s there. so yes, the american taxpayer money is going to illegal communities. you're lying to yourself. >> don't say i'm lying. >> gentlemen, we are not going to solve this all tonight. we'll have you back soon. we'll have you back in a steel

cage match. the murder of kate steinle from july,ers should far from being the only senseless death at the hands of an illegal immigrant. next, you will hear from the glsh man who was beaten, tortured and killed by a young man who came in illegally. >> instead of getting joshua home that day from school, we got an autopsy report. ll rested and ready to enjoy the morning ahead aleve pm. the first to combine a safe sleep aid... plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. for pain relief that can last until the am. so you... you... and you, can be a morning person again. aleve pm for a better am. check your sunday paper and save $3 next week.

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the debate over u.s. immigration policies really started heading up this pas the immigration policy has really started heating up this past july when an inspiring young woman of the name of kate steinle was killed by a man who was not only in the country illegally but had been released from police just a few weeks prior. and what's worse, she was not the only one who was kill at the hands of someone who was here illegally. josh wilkerson was beat sxen why killed in 2010. wilkerson's mother made clear that she is drawing a direct link between current policies and her son's tragic death. >> my son's name was josh today wilkerson he was beaten, strangled, tortured until he dimpld he was tied up, thrown in

a field and set on fire. his killer was brought here illegally by his illegal parents when he was 10 years old. this was our family's 911 terrorist attack by foreign invader. whether you want to recognize it or whether you do not. this government continues to fail or even recognize that we have an issue. americans are dying daily at the hands of criminals that we don't even know are here. i want you to know that our family is broken forever. we are forever broken. i thank you for your time. and i don't want the sympathy. i want you tooth something about it. everyone of you sitting here is in a position to do something. >> laura wilkerson, josh wilkerson's mother joins us live i can't. imagine somebody who is more persuasive to a lawmaker than someone like you, calling them out and telling them your story.

to know back ground and read the details. all i can say is i am so sorry for your family because it is horrific. we cannot imagine what you've been through. it has been five years since his death. still nothing has been done to address many of the problems that you highlighted. how are you feeling today? and looking forward to whether you think something concrete will finally happen. >> thank you for having me. i feel like there is progress that's being made because we're still talking about it. in the beginning, you know, you might speak about it and then you would hear nothing. specially on a national level. so there is progress. we're still talking about it. there have been plags thrown out to change it so that is progress. it can't come quick enough. >> some of what we're talking about, people who are here and have committed criminal acts. in many cases they have bad

actions. they should have been deported. some have been deported multiple times and they're back and taking innocent lives. there are other things that are a more controversial. somehow forcing them on comply with federal laws on the book ruffle hoping sanctuary cities will get a closer look based on what has happened? >> i hope so. no one deserved a sanctuary city. they're not going to give it to me or to you. i don't understand the creation of them in the beginning. come on down and we'll let you go. it makes no sense we're even talking about this subject. >> and i know that you have said, you are grateful that we're talking about this because of donald trump and a lot of statements. i don't know that you would vote for him or he is your guy. are you thankful that this

conversation is right at the forefront and all the candidates are having to talk about what they would do. >> absolutely. i think that has been the best progress so far. there is a lot to be seen before the election gets here. but that progress is that it is in the forefront nationally and i am so glad 37 to address it. it is the reality for families like myself. it is our reality. and it should be addressed. i'm not just one person. there are countless families that this affects on a daily basis. >> it is so helpful when people like and you other families come forward and personalize this. so we all know, it can be any of us that are dealing with this pain work this loss over something that did not have to happen. we thank you so much for again, sharing your story here. we hope you will continue to see progress along the way and we'll stay on it like we know you will as well. >> thank you so much for having me. >> thank you. we seem to be hearing incidents like miss wilkerson's

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find new ways to save energy and money with pg&e's business energy check-up. by now, we know where the candidates stand on illegal immigration. what about the people covering them? for a look at the impact the mainstream media has had on framing the immigration issue, we turn to howard kurtz the host of media buzz on fox news. good to see you tonight. do you think they're being fair and balanced? we know at least one news outlet is. some other ones seem to be taking sides in the debate. >> generally speaking, the mainstream media are sympathetic to the plight of illegal immigrants to the point that it often colors the coverage.

they quote critics on the other side, sure. the underlying tone is that president obama is helping to deliver justice to these 11 million people who are here illegally. and the republican party is committing suicide among hispanics. the pundits were absolutely unanimous that donald trump was crippling his campaign when he talked about mexican immigrants and rapists. his pushing of that issue and the wall has provided the fuel to bring him to the top of the republican pack. >> listen, we know there are memos that have gone out publicly that you're not allowed to use certain words. i have a friend that works at a different media outlets that was chastised for using the term illegal immigrant. she felt it was the accurate description of a suspect and she was chastised. >> i don't like to short hand illegals, these are people and some of them are struggling to get by. the idea of undocumented workers, strikes me as a

euphemism. they broke the law. and that's the center of the debate. you were talking earlier about the kate steinle murder in san francisco by an illegal immigrant. i did a little research going back. "the washington post" didn't cover it. "the new york times" had a story inside the paper but framed it as problem of communication between federal and local authorities. the tragedy wasn't examined as it should have been in my view as part of the danger allowing illegal immigrants with questionable records to stay in the country. >> when a president took so many actions with regard to -- i don't want say amnesty, some would argue what he's done was amnesty. there seems to be sort of a spirit of praise for him in some media outlets for doing that. and not questioning him about the use of executive orders or 20 some times prior to thim doing he said he couldn't

legally done it. there was praise for him and he moved things forward because congress wouldn't do it. >> in looking at that coverage was on the boldness of the move, "the washington post" had front page pictures of celebrating immigrant families. that's part of the story. i don't think that should be ignored. a new story in the post said president obama is willing to forge ahead despite the head winds. "new york times" editorial page, that's opinion called the plan wise. very different approach for example when george w. bush would by-pass congress and that would become the focus of the much of the coverage. >> did they need the u.s. constitution? >> well, that's the debate we should be having. and i'm not -- i don't want to paint with too broad a brush. some outlets try to present both sides. i think you can tell a lot about

the underlying tone of the story, the words that are used. the bottom line is that the coverage focused as when gay marriage became the law of the land and all this focus on happy couples. the natural instinct of broadcasters to find families that are happy. >> we've got to leave it there. we'll be right back on "the kelly file." tha thanks. ♪ (vo) you can pass down a subaru forester. (dad) she's all yours. (vo) but you get to keep the memories. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. at ally bank no branches equalsit's a fact.. kind of like mute buttons equal danger.

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immigration debate on sunday when i host former texas governor rick perry now 2016 candidate 1:00 p.m. sunday afternoon. we'll see you there for "america's news hq." this is the kelly file. tonight. >> america, like every other nation, has made mistakes. and has its flaws. >> how can we restore america's greatness after the obama administration's foreign policy failures? >> there has been time when americans showed errors. >> from leading from behind. from pretending radical islam does not exist. >> the united states is not and will never be at war with islam. >> and paving the way for the iranians to get their hands on a nuclear weapon. >> i believe it would