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tv   The Kelly File  FOX News  October 16, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT

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bill o'reilly will be back on monday. of course, please remember, the spin stops here because we're looking out for you. >> breaking tonight, the clinton e-mail scandal expands to the white house. f.b.i. agents investigating hillary clinton accuse president obama of sabotaging their case. welcome to the kelly file, everyone, i'm megyn kelly. investigators have yet to reach any conclusions on her potential wrong doing. but a new york times article suggests president obama's recent comments on the matter are directly colliding with their on going investigation. and the agents conducting that investigation are downright angry. the white house insists the president is not trying to steer this investigation toward any con delusion.
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but in an interview with 60 minutes, the president not only suggested this is not all about politics, but while the f.b.i. is still investigating the matter, he announced that hillary's actions were not a national security issue. >> i don't think it's a national security problem. i think it was a mistake that she's acknowledged. i do think that the way it's been jened up is, in part, because of politics. i can tell you that this is not a situation in which america's national security was endangered. we don't get an impression here here there was pur possibposelys to hide something or to squirrel away of fgs. >> chief washington coral spore dent james warden has more. >> reporter: good evening. president's obama's comments in which he stated flatly this is not a situation in which america's national security was endangered absolutely infuriated
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investigators at the f.b.i. and set a pattern. that's the thrust in the "new york times", its broad outlines confirming mr. obama already decided the answers to the very questions that they are looking into and that he prematurely cleared anyone involved of wrong doing. the fewer reporters to ask press secretary josh earnest if his boss wasn't trying to "steer" the f.b.i. in a particular direction. >> the president respects independent integrity including those conducted by the f.b.i. >> some officials have said to be drawing parallels with the case of former c.i.a. director david petreus who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor earlier this year. in 2012, president obama said he'd seen no evidence that the
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general's actions had a negative impact on the community. when they arrested harvard professor henry lewis gates and then in 2012, one month before george zimmerman was indicted, the president remarked that if he had had a son, he would have looked like martin. zimmerman was ultimately acquitted in that case. >> from the particular circumstance in ferguson, which i am care ful to not to speak t because it's not my job as president to comment on on going investigations in specific cases. >> as for mrs. clinton and her e-mail server catherine is reporting tonight. >> joining me now, the former f.b.i. assistant director in
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charge and a former senior counter terrorism advisor to the new york governor. jim, thank you for being back on the program. so you know a lot of the ajenge involved in this investigation. how angry must they be tonight? >> well, i know some of the agents, megyn, i know some of the supervisors and i know some of the senior staff. they're poed, there's no question. this is like someone driving another nail into the coffin of the criminal justice system and what the public thinks about it. that's the real hurtful part. the public sees this and people shouldn't wonder why the government, in general, is held in such low esteem. >> they're going in there. they're seizing four computer servers from the state department just last week. they're doing their jobs. they're trying to figure out whether national security was compromised and you've got the commander in chief out there declaring this over, for all intense and purposes, in that
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"60 minutes" interview. >> first off, all this will do is make them be more committed, not that they need being more committed. they're going to do the right thing. i know these guys. they're going to find the truth oar th or they're going to say there is no evidence here. they're going to tell the truth about what happened. we have to be big boys and stand up and say what that truth is and deal with it, you know, the way our criminal justice system demands. i know jim very well. he's a great guy. i worked for governor batacy when we had him as the governor in new york. he doesn't serve, necessarily, at the pleasure. >> but the f.b.i. has the final call. and might there be fear now that this is all going to be for not because the fix is in?
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>> well, i'll tell you. i don't think they'd get away with that if there's a case. just the news reports, there's prime fascia cases of numerous leakings in my view. so it's just a matter of how they'll compress all of these things into either a bill or no bill. it's going places. the state department, most of the communications of the state department are classified. it's all things dealing with how this country deals with foreign government. that's not something you want to blow to the wind. >> how theoried do you think the transgression was? he says he doesn't comment on on going cases and, yet, something
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as extraordinary as a popular former secretary of state getting indicted, he chose to weigh in on. >> i think it's a big transgression. am i surprised? i guess i'm not surprised, but i'm disappointed. >> but i don't think it will impact, megyn. they're not going to do that. i had two or three meetings with bill clinton in the white house and the next thing i know, i get an e-mail saying clinton's expecting me to find a certain thing. that will never happen. i can't imagine that ever happening in the f.b.i. >> these guys are straight shooters. >> yeah, and if it's a big case and it's pushed under the rug, they won't take that sitting down. >> that's going to get leaked. all the best, sir. we are also getting dramatic new pictures tonight by a
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stabbing of a terrorist pretending to be a reporter. this is the terrorist in a yellow and white striped jacket up there wielding a knife. and when the president walked out to address the israeli crisis, charles crowdhammer says what mr. obama did was shameful. he's up next. he'll explain why. plus, jeb bush fires back after donald trump attacks his brother again, suggesting the former president is somehow responsible for the september 11th attacks. and then, the punishment has been handed down for the coach who allegedly told his football players to make a ref pay for a call out on the field. the ref is finally talking. >> so i'm able to get out of the way, run, get as far away from the situation as you can. you pay your auto insurance premium every month on the dot. you're like the poster child
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vie lept protests coming out of israel. the president calling on both sides to take responsibility for the bloodshed. today, the terror group, hamas and a day of rage urging to attack israelis.
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back in washington, president obama calling on both sides to stop the violence. first, details on one of the shocking details so far. a palestinian man wearing a reflective and yellow and white vest starts stabbing one of them by posing as a journalist. trace gallagher has more. >> this latest attack is a new and grave concern for israeli defense forces because they work so closely with the media. the attacker described as a palestinian photojournalist had reportedly infiltrated a hamas television crew. they've been deemed a terrorist organization by the u.s. the foreign press association is now calling on all palestinian media organizations to verify who gets press credentials.
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the attack happened near the west bank which, along with jerusalem, has seen a recent rash of attacks, mostly stabbings. palestinian leaders have built an incubator for terror using television and social media to radicalize their young people, even offering biological tutorials. >> this speech you see here is an example of the kind of text that palestinian children are being exposed today in and day out. in schools, after school. the picture here e lab rate on how to stab a jew. >> overnight, a group of palestinians also set fire to the tune of joseph, a site revered by jews and christians.
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israel says he's done nothing to quell the overall violence. palestinians accuse israel of trying to divide one of islam's holiest sites. >> trace, thank you. >> as we mentioned, president obama spoke to the situation in israel from the white house earlier today. listen. >> we condemn in the strongest possible terms. violence directed against innocent people and believe that israel has a right to maintain basic law and order and protect its citizens from knife attacks. and violence on the streets. we also believe that it's important for both the prime minister and israeli elected
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officials and other people in positions of power to try to tamp down rhetoric that may feed violence. >> charles, good to see you tonight. what do you make of president obama's response. you heard it read in full with trying to tamp down rhetoric that may feed the violence or anger. >> i think the president's statement is shameful and it follows on shameful statements by secretary of state. it is the moral equivalence to the idea that some how israelleadership is using inflammatory rhetoric. we all know how and why they started. this was hamas and also palestinian authority. they spread the rumor, they spread the lie that as we heard, they're trying to divide, they're trying to desecrate it,
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they're trying to destroy it. they're trying to change status quo. that is not true what so ever. it's been amplified and has not been tamped out at all by the palestinian authority, which it should be w. and they have encouraged the violence. and then, there was also a statement by the state department spokesman, i think it was yesterday, saying that they condemn the excessive force being used. and there are reports of excessive force. what would we do if there were people running around streets of new york, stabbing people on busses. we would be using whatever force is necessary to stop them. you eve seen some of the video where people are shot literally while holding the knife with the blood visible of the knife. the idea that there's some equivalent here is disgraceful. it has no interest in ginning up any kind of this violence.
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we know who's doing it. why can't the president simply say these are acts of terror and we condemn them. they're based on a lie and we call out the palestinian leadership to say that it is a lie and to stop the violence. >> they won't. it. >> it's not hard to say. >> you mentioned kirby who actually came out yesterday and said individuals on both sides of this are -- have been proven capable of and, in our view, guilty of acts of terror. so he is clearly drawing the e kwif lents on both sides. >> that in and of itself is a libel. yes, there have been terror attacks of jews. they are extremely infrequent. when they happen, they are condemned everyone from the left to the right. the people are pursued, apprehended and arrested. what happens on the palestinian
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side? as we saw, they encourage, they teach their children how to stab a jew. they spread these stories about them to gin up the violence. they make it in a slightly more sophisticated way. they've been using terror for 30 years. for a spokesman of the united states to imply that there's some use of terror, i think, is shocking. >> why don't we say what you just said? why doesn't president obama make it that clear? and by the way, senator cruz is calling for john carere kerry t down. >> i'm not going to pose into the psyche. i will leave that to psychiatrists. all i can say is he's been the most unfriendly, unsympathetic
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to israel since any president since the founding in 1948. >> everyone points to the massive amounts of money we dgie israel and to counter that argument. >> well, that's been -- the u.s. military, israeli military has had a close relationship and support for 620 years. if you were to stop that, that would be amazing. that would be a stab in the back of israel. that would be a way to abandon it to its fate. i wouldn't expect any president, know matter how sympathetic to create a crisis of that sort. especially among democrats. of course, and republicans if he tried to cut off the aid to israel. so to say we support, which incidentally is going to help the united states, israel is the testing field. if the israelis are the ones who test out the new technology, we
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will use that in our encounters with other forces abroad. so it's something that we're going to use. of course it's going to help israel. every issue that counts while we're going at the u.s. is under obama and gone against every segment of the israeli political spectrum. they're all against this. all the way to the equivalents that we heard today. >> thaurcharles, thank you. >> well, nbc news is so far staying silent as critics accuse this reporter of a blatant display of bias on live tv. here next with the facts and his take. plus, breaking news. we'll show you what the kardashians are doing tonight including his ex-wife -- or
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well, there are new questions tonight about what some media critics are calling a blatant display of bias. the report came from ime imen mohaldine. this is the reporter who got in trouble for suggesting racist tendencies. this time, he was on-air describing how an israeli police officer shot an unarmed palestinian right in front of said reporter. the only problem, that reporter's own camera crew filmed the dead man prior to
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being shot, wielding a knife in his hand. and the anchor had to issue an on-the-spot correction. watch. from where where we're standing, where his body was lying, beth of his hand were open and both of his hands did not have a knife. >> eamon? eamon? as a matter of fact, it is important. you're covering this story live. you're seeing it once. you're actually witnessing it not knowing what you're seeing until you actually process it. but in the video that we have that you have, as you say, i don't think anybody else has this video. we can clearly see the man in camouflage t-shirt and pants with what appears to be, at least in his right hand, a knife. >> howie kurtz is the host of mead ya buzz. how problematic is this? >> it's inexplicable to have his own anchor have to correct him,
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the knife was visible right there in the video which he had seen. but the larger problem is that he went onto say there didn't seem to be an eminent danger from this palestinian. excuse me? knives kill people. especially in the hands of terrorists. and i have to agree with critics. >> but, in the moment of his defense, in the moment, when you're there, sometimes things go so quickly, you don't see everything. so he's reporting what he thought he saw. he gets corrected by the anchor, you know, in the moment. that's happened. where sometimes we in the studio have a better vantage point than those on scene. >> i have less of a problem with him making that mistake or not having the right vantage point than i do with him saying didn't seem to be in eminent danger. this is the dilemma for the media. the whole point of these attacks by palestinian teenagers who are now coming with knives and attacking israeli soldiers, is that they are trying to draw a
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reaction. and they are trying to get sympathetic media coverage so the headlines say israeli soldiers kill two palestinian kids. the media have to not fall to the trap. it's tricky to cover violence in the middle east. when you have one side ins gaiting and the other sides retaliating, i think the media coverage, to be fair, has to reflect that. >> and the problem is that he failed to tell the viewers for over an hour that the suspect was a palestinian, that he was dressed in camouflage uniform, similar to the one that israeli soldiers wore. and he never referred to that attempted terrorist attack, you know, on the israelis as anything other than a man being shot by israeli officials. so the viewers at home are left with the impression that the israelis just gunned this guy down for no reason.
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>> do you think they will? will they have to? will he have to send some sort of messaging out? >> i think you have to say something, a mistake of this magnitude, even if it was a mistake. >> yeah, if it's a mistake, then you correct it and people will understand. howie, good to see you. >> another media figure in the news tonight as rosie o'donnell gets hit with another ugly lawsuit. ryan kelly is here with the wild story behind this. plus, gov forjernor jeb bus pushing back tonight. back with a fascinating theory about what he thinks is behind this. >> i think i have a bigger heart than all of them. i think i'm much more competent than all of them. say what you want, but the world trade center came down during his time.
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v breaking tonight, governor jeb bush is pushing back. since the attacks on the world trade center happened on his watch. >> we haven't seen your soft hand. we've seen your offense. but george bush had to stand in front of america after 9/11, barack obama had to after sandyhook. help us understand who donald trump is as a man. i need to know that you will make us feel safe and you will make us feel proud. >> i think i have a bigger heart than all of them. i think i'm much more confident when you talk about george bush. say what you want, but the world trade center came down during his time. >> hold on. you can't blame george bush. >> well, blame him or don't
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blame him, the world trade center came down during his reign. >> fox news contributor and syndicated columnist. jeb bush has come out and called that pathetic. the former press secretary has come out and said trump was like a trooper. would he blame pearl harbor on f.d.r.? >> if you just look at this as a matter of campaign technique, you have to say that trump is a reality show genius. his campaign is an on going reality show. the most successful in the history of television. but he understands the secret. you have to keep advancing the story. the story doesn't advance for a couple of days and nobody is going to tune in. he's always throwing out something every couple of days that gets him in the news. i saw that on the home page of the new york times.
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there's nothing on the economic plan, there's nothing on the ru bx io energy plan. he tossed in at the last minute of the 35 minute interview. and look at the success. he's advancing the story. and in the same way, his reality show, if he didn't fire a new batch every week, nobody would tune in. as a matter of technique and genius, it has a second effect, as well. that is he's very successfully been able to bake other candidates into reacting and then monopolizing the conversation. so he successfully got jeb to respond on an issue which i'm sure he didn't want to respond. it takes him off of his game. the argument is now on the ground that trump had chosen. and he has succeeded. so whatever you think of the substance of it, and i don't think a lot about the substance of it, look at the effect it's had. it helps explain one of the reasons why he's number one in the polls and he's remained out there.
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he's a genius at stringing out the story and having everybody tune into his reality show. >> you think it's all kal clated and that that was a kallated move as opposed to an off-the-cuff remark on the subject of george w. bush and 89/11. >> that is a pretty heavy off-the-cuff remark. i can't testimony you if it's calculated and had to be dropped today. clearly, it's something that he's thought about. he knows what he's saying. he knows he's been able to say all kinds of outrageous stuff, john mccain is no hero, et cetera. it's not so much that people admire a guy who says what's on his mind. but there's kind of a secret admiration for a guy who says what's on his mind no matter how outrageous and gets away with it.
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>> and he didn't. i mean, do you think any of these republicans will care about that? >> well, i think you just turn the question around, mr. trump. what would you have done differently? let's hear what he says. >> well, we'll bring that that up in '08. i'll tell it to chris wallace. great to see you, thaurls. >> my pleasure. >> now we turn to national tea party leader katrina pearson. good to see you, kat. so what do you make of that? what would donald trump have done differently in the accusations he seems to be leveling. >> here's the thing. people are acting like donald trump said george bushel flew the plane himself. he didn't say that. he stated the fact that george bush was president and, therefore, the buck stops with him. donald trump is a global business leader. and he understands the importance of leadership.
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and these are the same republicans that are complaining that barack obama isn't taking responsibility for the economy that he inherited from george bush. here's what would have been different under donald trump. very simple. immigration enforce lt. he would have secured the borders, the wall would have been built. many of these hijackers came to this country on a student visa, on a tourist visa on business visas. so, yeah, donald trump would have had some substance to this issue. >> and you don't put any of that on bill clinton? that's all on george w bush? >> well, he wasn't being asked about bill clinton. i think it's safe to say that presidents all the way back to reagan bear some responsibility as to how open our sovereign nation has been. but that's not what mr. trump was asked. >> do you think there's any distasteful about an attempt to politicize 9/111. he got in trouble before for
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saying john mccain was captured, i prefer people who weren't captured. these are things that the military and the terrorist attackings, you know, a lot of people hold those in violet and don't want to hear those kind of accusations thrown about. even casually. especially casually. >> well, i think you've touched on something that has been the sensation of donald trump. sometimes you have to tell people what they don't want to hear. and he's been very good at that. this wasn't some contrived statement. everyone in the media knows you don't drop a headline on a friday. that's just not how it works. >> kat, good to see you. >> thank you, megyn. >> thanks for being here. we also have breaking news tonight, a former nba star awake now from a coma as his former bief's family feuds with the brothel.
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♪ (vo) making the most out of every mile. that's why i got a subaru impreza. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. developing tonight, we now know the punishment for two of the texas high school football coaches involved in that brutal hit on a ref who made some calls they didn't like. the texas officials described
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that the coach ordered the players to sack the ref. and so that coach would be suspended the rest of the year and then be placed on probation for two years. the head coach was also given two years probation. so does the punishment fit the crime? brian is the co-host of fox and friend. good to see you. the kid hit the ref and it later came out that the coaches told him to do it. is that what happened? >> these two kids came out afterward and said there was some racial ep at thes from the ref. it doesn't seem to have been backed up by anybody else. then they said oh, my coach told me to do it. so the coach, at the time, admitted to the principal and the coach he did tell him to do it. but listen to how he changes his story. he said i never told him to do it. i just said this. this mfer has to pay the price
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and the kids take it the wrong way. so he gets the rest of the year, 29 years old. he got caught up in the moment and got probation for the next two years. >> so is that appropriate? so this coach doesn't lose his livelihood ever more? a lot are saying he should. he should. that's quite a transgression. >> there's a war on reves. they're blaming the man in stripes which is no big deal if you complain. but he got crushed by two players. i do think the punishment fits the crime because he has no backtrack record. so, to me, if you learn, he's been disgraced nationally. so if he could get back on his feet and say man, did i blow it. that would make me feel good about it. however, when i saw his explanation -- crying on a sandwich always helps. >> don't label somebody a racist if they're not.
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this ref has no history of that. that's the worst. >> rosie o'donnell back in the news. she's apparently getting sued by the former senior producer of "the view" who is alleging she was harassed by rosie when she worked at the view. >> right, they look happy there. rosie also left because of perhaps discontent. with your legal background, you have to wonder eight months later, why do you sue? she feared essentially for her livelihood and her welfare. rosie o'donnell wanted the story back, but whoopi got the story. she blew up and got right in her face and grabbed both arms of the chair. >> rosie grabbed the producer? >> grabbed the producer by the chair and held her there.
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>> i read, according to a story in the new york post that the producer eets behavior towards rosie was so brutal that rosie, herself, complained to human resources. >> you're abshutly right. that's a second incident on top of that: >> james took a swing at me on the way in, but i'm not going to press charges because it's not on camera. he swatted and held. he held a cheek. >> all right. now, in other news, has anybody been waiting for the 24/7 mcdonalds breakfast? how many times have ghoul gotten there at 10:35 and they're like no egg mcmuffin for you. however, it's not working out so well. >> best chronicled in the adam
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sand ler movie a short time ago. >> we'll take hot cakes and sausage. >> sorry, sir, we stopped serving breakfast. >> what are you talkbling about? we're four seconds late? >> yes, yes, been there. >> he did some good with that because he changed the rules. >> here's the thing, they didn't check with the franchise so the kitchen is unequipped. now people are going crazy, the lines are getting longer. their workers are pulling their hair out. >> the pulling of the hair out is also a safety violation. there's a lot of problems. >> i know the home office is trying to help us, but they're hurting me. >> but they test it on a regional basis. i don't understand why it's not going well. >> my rich back fwround in fast food, it really comes in handy now. but i will say this. people right-hand turn happy -- the customers are happy it's
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happening, but they're not happy the lines are getting longer. the word is this is not going anywhere. people have said the number one complaint is breakfast cannot be eaten at noon or at 6:00 and that's not going to change. >> you live in new york? nobody eats breakfast here before noon. >> you don't make as much money off of a mcmuffin as you do a burger. >> it's all about the benjamiins, i got it. a lovely lady and fellow journalist by the name of gayle king. look at what she posted on her instagram. >> that's michael. he's a flight attendand. he said i don't watch you, i watch fox. hey, i watch fox, too. i love that me fwrks yn kelly. he says i'm going to take care of you anyway even though i don't watch you, gayle king.
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she went and got a positive instagram response. >> that's a classy move on her part. she didn't have to tell the world that. she did a nice thing for me. and i appreciate it, gayle. and i appreciate the nice things you've said to me in the past. right back at you, sister. >> good-bye. great to see you. >> up next, breaking news on nba star lamar odom. his wife and the brothel where lamar collapsed. why do so many people choose aleve? it's the brand more doctors recommend for minor arthritis pain. plus, just two aleve can last all day. you'd need 6 tylenol arthritis to do that. aleve. all day strong. those diagnosed with cancer who explored their treatment options by getting a comprehensive second opinion at cancer
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breaking tonight, we are getting reports that former nba star lamar odom is awake and actually managed to say hello to
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estranged wife khloe kardashian. we don't know yet if they discussed the brothel where odom was found collapsed last weekend. trace gallagher has the story. trace? >> reporter: megyn, we know that khloe kardashian remains at her estranged husband's bedside in a las vegas hospital and is still reportedly taping episodes of "keeping up with the kardashians." "lamar and khloe" lasted just two seasons. lamar is in critical condition after spending four days and $75,000 at a nevada brothel, reportedly overdosing on cocaine and an herbal sexual stimulant called reload 72. one pill is supposed to last three days. odom apparently took enough to last a month. but after being on life support for three days, a publicist for the odom family says today he gave a thumbs up and said "good morning," though other reports deny that's true. lamar odom won two championships with the los angeles lakers but has a history of substance abuse and personal problems. sex workers at the brothel say odom became distraught last
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weekend after someone called him about an episode of "keeping up with the kardashians." a few days ago, khloe kardashian's dramatic weight loss was the tabloid headline. now the news is much more serious. megyn. >> trace, thank you. joining me now, fox news contributor and lawyer eppny willia eboni williams. great to see you. >> great to see you. >> is there any way the brothel would be sued? >> it looks like, megyn, no. they acted prudently, urgented, made calls to 911 seeking emergency medical care. so, that's the standard, right? so far, looks like they are in the clear. the one person who could possibly be in legal trouble, lamar odom. the knight county sheriff's office has a warrant seeking to test his blood. if it comes back positive for cocaine, he could be facing charges. >> those are the reports, that not only did he take this stimulant, but he was on coke. >> cocaine. >> is there any way they can argue, you check into the brothel, a house of prostitution, obviously. the deal is that these two women
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who he picked from a lineup would go up to his room up to six times a day. and if you can prove that they had seen any evidence of drug use, it was foreseeable. >> well, that's what's interesting, right? where's that line of what's reasonable activity in this type of environment. as you said, this type of brothel is legal in that jurisdiction. so, i would think that they have a wide scope as to what that activity looks like. >> but they still can't be negligent, right? >> no, they can't be negligent, and if any new or known standard is applicable, certainly, i would expect to see some type of suit at least come. i don't know how successful it would be, but at least be filed. >> so, who's the playointiff? i guess if he recovers, he would be the plaintiff and will say you should have seen what happened to me. who's sued, the brothel and the two call girls? monica and i don't think i can say the other name. >> not on this show. yeah, the plaintiffs would be lamar, if he survives, his children. perhaps khloe, legally still his wife. >> meanwhile, she's trying to shut down the brothel, according to reports.
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>> well, of course. they want to frame this in typical kardashian fashion, right? they want to frame what this narrative sounds like. and this guy, i think it's really classless what he's doing, but from a business standpoint, megyn, i get it. he wants to say, hands off, we did everything we could. >> you take drugs into your body and you take a huge chance with your life. great to see you. thank you so much, eboni. we'll be right back. don't go away. let me talk to you about retirement. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. would you trust me as your financial advisor? i would. i would indeed.
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something trump just appeared to reiterate on twitter. what do you think? does he have a point or are the comments offensive? facebook.com/thekellyfile, on twitter @megynkelly. have a great weekend. i am megyn kelly and this is "the kelly file." welcome to "hannity." hillary clinton may be in very serious trouble with the fbi tonight over the use of her private e-mail server. i'm tucker carlson in for sean. a source familiar with the fbi's ongoing investigation has told fox news that federal agents are now working to determine if clinton violated the section of the espionage act that regards her potential failure to safely store national security information. standing by in washington with the very latest tonight is ed henry. ed? >> reporter: good to see you, tucker. the reason why that's so critical and important to underscore is that that is a statute involving negligence. and so, you would not have to prove that someone purposely did something. in the case of this story,