presidential debate of its own tuesday november 10th in milwaukee, wisconsin. if it matters to you, it matters to us. business in english to the guys who want to be president of the united states. we'll see you then. hello, i'm dana perino, along with kimberly guilfoyle, juan williams, eric bolling, and greg gutfeld, it's 5:00 in new york city and this is "the five." the next gop presidential debate is tomorrow. and donald trump may be feeling more pressure this time around because he's not leading every poll any more. ben carson has not only taken the lead in iowa, but also for the first time he's now ahead of trump in a new national poll. "the new york times"/cbs news news survey shows carson on top with 26%, a four-point lead over the once-unchallenged front-runner. trump touts polls when is whe he's ahead.

but now is expressing doubt about them. >> i generally believe in polls. the thing with these polls, they're all so different. they're coming from all over the lot. one guy is up here and somebody else is up there. you see swings of 10 and 12 points. like immediately even the same day. so right now it's not very scientific. i think it's very hard when you have this many. but overall, mark, i am a believe in polls. i think they say something, at least they spot a trend. >> i think he's right on that eric. i'm going to go to you first. i have always felt if you live by the polls, you could die by the polls. you have to have a bigger campaign and strategy than that. arguing about the methodology, when you once praised the same polls, might be barking up the wrong tree. >> this is the first one i believe since he announced that on a national level, doesn't have him leading. and it should be interesting how you respond to the idea. clearly you can't say i'm leading any poll any more. >> and you can say i'm leading in new hampshire and south

carolina. do you pick yourself up and go forward with policy? should be interesting. and what happens when you have the dip, whether you can bring it back up. that's an important tell that a candidacy is really strong. conversely, the people who have been saying, this time four years ago or eight years ago it was herman cain or it was so and so, and they start moving up the polls. will they start touting the polls? >> here's the thing i wanted to ask you, kimberly. what do you attribute the rise of carson since the last debate? he's kind of done a book tour, a little more media. he is gaining in a lot of the different areas. >> i think he's really resonating with people more than they have individual contact. get to meet him. think his message very strong christian. and in a state like iowa really matters and is significant. he's sort of slow and steady, some have called it low energy, but slow and steady and he's been persuasive in terms of who he is. in terms of his ideology.

what he believes in. his religion, his viewpoints on the country and i think people like how he's very genuine. he's, some of the things that have attracted people to donald trump, they're finding a place for themselves as well, with ben carson. >> greg, trump has been able to punch at jeb bush and he kind of enjoys it. but it's hard to hit ben carson. >> he's nice and handsome. >> he's cooler than iced coffee on pluto. the guy has antifreeze in his veins, that's why he is a great surgeon. he doesn't seem to have any anxiety. he's not nervous. but i got to go back to, there was another survey that said seven out of ten republicans say it's too soon to even say who they're supporting. so in a weird way, it's like when you go shopping for cars. when you start, whealk into the dealership and you look at the most exotic, impractical models, but then by the end of that day you buy an f-150.

because it's got the best payload. right now we're in the part where we're looking at the choices as a wish, but not a reality. >> like you're maybe thinking you could take home three or four of the vehicles. >> right, exactly will. >> juan, where do you see the gop race shaping up? there's been movement and we've got a debate tomorrow night. are you excited? can you wait until tomorrow night? >> i love debates. i think they're interesting. i like to see what people have to say. tomorrow night i expect that trump is going to have to come out with something a little different. he's going to have to come out and really make a stand. i want to pick up on the idea that we shouldn't get too invested in the horse race, it is early what distinguishes this period is that trump has been ahead for so long, still is in the mix within the margin of error and if you put together carson and trump, you've got about half of the republican voters. the big story here looking at the republican electorate, is the consistent love that they're

giving to outsiders and the consistent distance we're stiff on, given to people like jeb bush and chris christie down at the other end of the spectrum. find it really interesting and come back to something greg was talking about a moment earlier. even within the horse race at the moment, most republicans haven't made up their mind. and especially people who are backing my pal, carson. i think it's 80% of them say yeah, we're not sure we're going to do it. but among trump's people -- >> bandwagon, bandwagon. >> no. >> i think he was my pal first. >> i can honestly say he's my pal. but anyway, among trump supporters, there's a higher percentage of people who say i've made up my mind. i'm a trump person new york city matter what happens, i'm sticking with trump. >> they're going to stick with him. >> you have that plus trump's organizations, truch has real forces on the ground in places like iowa. carson is still trying to get

that together. >> he's also on a book tour. >> and donald trump has book that comes out any day now? >> dana, plus or minus six points of the margin of error which is interesting. sometimes it's usually three or four. so there's sway there and there's four points between the candidates. i'm curious to see if there's any kind of fluctuation after the debate. we saw carly fiorina pop up, which was giving people concern and now she's had a dip. >> the debate is being sponsored by cnbc. they're supposedly people think there will be more of an check focus. do you expect to see that? >> i do. i just wrote down. i hear, like ben carson today, the day before the debate says if i become president i will not raise the debt ceiling. >> ever. >> and literally what happened within i think within 30 days of him being sworn into office, we would hit a debt limit and they would have to say, what are you going to do, mr. president. that's a big statement. and listen i commend him for doing it. but that is a big thing --

>> you wouldn't do it or say it? >> i'm very interested to see how he answers that. it's a tough question to answer. especially on a debate stage with a lot of people gunning for him. hats off to you, ben carson for having the guts to do it on the day before the debate. also he did a little flip-flopping on medicare, on medicaid recently. first he said he would abolish it. and then he said he would come back with health savings accounts. so i think there's going to be a lot of economy. for me i love that stuff. it will be interesting to see how donald trump and ben carson and marco rubio, who has flown under the radar on this stuff. will do. >> i want to show a sound byte from a video that marco rubio put out, talking about all the questions he probably won't get asked about the debate tomorrow night. >> mark, how you doing? >> great.

>> first thing you thought this morning? >> how am i doing. >> if it had not been for my lack of size, speed and talent. >> tupac? >> tupac. >> first cd you ever bought? >> one of the prince albums, i kind of forget each one. >> where was he walking? are we sure he's american? it's always refreshing to see -- somebody who is able to think on their feet. and not be so stiff and this has always been a problem with republicans, is that they're not very good in these situations. he's young enough, savvy enough to kind of express himself in way that might, that people under 50 might enjoy. >> gregory, i can't believe this you think it wasn't staged? >> of course it was staged. >> oh oh oh. >> tomorrow night, marco rubio will have a different physical position on the stage. he'll be between trump and bush. >> and i like all of his answers except i would have said biggie,

biggie smalls, instead of tupac sha different ar, word. >> i think it makes him more human. >> more human? >> he's young, he's personable. i get to know him is what i mean by more human. what's coming into play, in trump's numbers, to draw the circle, is the fact that people are running negative ads about him in iowa. club for growth running ads saying this is the guy who believes in eminent domain. he'll take your property this is a guy who was once a democrat. he's just another politician. think the long knives are -- is that how you say, long swords are out for donald trump right now in terms of republican establishment. putting money into ads that are intended to bring him down right now. >> people are going after rubio, too. calling him the gop obama. >> guess who that is, somebody beloan lowe him, jeb. >> i know jeb, i spoke -- >> my pal ben. >> i'll leave it alone.

>> have one last thing to bring up. mark helprin of bloomberg. he said that hillary clinton is most likely to be the next u.s. president. i actually think that today if you're looking at the race, you don't have a republican nominee yet, that's probably not that far. >> it's clearly next -- the next -- on the left. unless she gets arrested. unless the fbi -- >> oh, my god, bolling. >> unless the fbi says we have enough to indict her she's going to be the nominee and she's likely to be the president. who is the one that's going to beat her? >> boy, i don't know. >> you're saying she's like too big to fail, except if she gets carted away. >> look at her history, she's lied to us, falsified the truth. four people have died under her watch. she's faked emails, she's lied about -- yet she's slamming it on the left. she's going to get elected unless she gets arrested. >> but helprin said is she'll be the next president. so it's not just not being the

nominee. >> i agree. >> i'm saying it's not a hard claim to make at this point. >> but i mean the thing is she has an amazing running mate in the media it was a media that immediately dismissed everything you just said about benghazi and the cover-up and everybody laughs at the idea of the cover-up. but it is true, she did lie to save her skin. she got -- i mean she gets, she gets this media vitamin every day. it's exactly what they did for obama and helprin just said what everybody else was thinking. >> i come at it from the other perspective. don't you think that if we had a better republican candidate that people like eric bolling wouldn't be like -- >> look, i think there are great republican candidates. if this deck is so stacked up, think about what you have to do. you have to probably get 10% of the african-american vote to win. 35%, 40% of the hispanic vote to win. >> it can be done.

>> those are huge tall hurdles for republicans. >> how about new york, california, illinois. >> breaking news -- nobody knows what's going do happen. >> that's true. >> i'm the only one who was told. earlier the president told a group of police chiefs that we have to tighten gun laws in america to stop the rise of violent crime. his fbi director, however, blames a scrutiny of police for the uptick. that's next.

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a short while ago, president obama once again pushed for gun control. this time before an audience full of police chiefs from across the nation. >> fewer gun safety laws don't mean more freedom. they mean more danger. certainly more danger to police. more fallen officers, more grieving families. >> he says he's going to keep calling on congress to pass more gun laws. meanwhile, the debate has emerged between the fbi and the white house. on the root cause of violent crime and the role of cops. here's james comey. >> far more people are being killed in some of america's cities than in many years.

and let's be clear -- far more people of color are being killed in american cities this year. and it's not the cops doing the killing. >> in today's youtube world, are officers reluck tabt to get out of their cars and do the wog work that control violent crime. officers answering 911 calls, but avoiding the informal contact that keeps bad guys with guns standing around. i have a strong sense of some part of what's going on is likely a chill wind that's blown through law enforcement over the last year. >> and now the white house. >> the evidence that we've seen so far doesn't support the contention that law enforcement officials are somehow shirking their responsibility. in fact, you hear law enforcement leaders across the country indicating that that's not what's taken place. >> all right. juan i'm going to start with you, i think james comey nailed it right there people of color are being killed, but not necessarily by members of the law enforcement.

now the white house pushed bash many. >> there's a real issue of black-on-black and especially young black men involved in all the drive-byes and gun trade. it's a huge issue and i would be the first to stand here with you and say i don't understand why the naacp and all the civil rights people and black lives matter aren't speaking to that critical issue. but there is an issue about -- >> more gun control will help fix that issue? >> i think so, i know you don't. >> let me finish the point. >> because the shooters are getting their guns illegally. >> no, they go to virginia and new york and go out and buy them and i come on the show and eric says to me, but juan new york has tough gun laws, the bad guys go down and get them illegally out of places that have lax gun laws. >> that's where they're getting them? >> yeah. >> at gun shows? >> gang bangers in chicago are going to -- >> no i'm talking about wisconsin, indiana, iowa, neighboring states where people can get guns easily. >> greg, you want to jump in.

>> the white house pushing back on the fbi? >> there's an overwhelming problem we know with gang violence. we 0 know that activists lump in a lot of these incidents and give a blanket statement that they were all unjustified and they were all victims. meanwhile, there's a dramatic rise in crime. comey mentioned the ferguson effect. but he said something that people kind of ignored. he linked it to a release of violent felons. which puts to rest this myth that overcrowding in prisons are filled with these nonviolent people that once we release them, they're just going to go back to picking daisies and selling candy on the corner. the dramatic decline in violent crime over the last two decades has been linked, correlated to incarceration. and now we see politicians that are thinking about releasing people out of the i guess the under the assumption of tolerance and political correctness. let's release more felons and what you're going to see is violent crime go up.

>> kg? >> yeah i mean he's on to something. he's speaking the truth. the white house had to -- not you. yes, by association. the white house has to try to put its stamp on it no no no, to distance themselves, it's not in keeping with their very ardent mission, pursuing gun control, despite purr swaysive evidence to the contrary. they don't understand that in fact increased gun ownership and yes, incarceration, reducing violent crime, that's what's it attributed to. you have a different opinion. >> i appreciate your point of view. i will say this -- i want to speak to the comey thing. which is i find it kind of puzzling, because i do think there's a real issue about police using excessive force, especially with poor black people. people who they're afraid of. they think these people are just dysfunctional. they may have a gun. >> when you say police, do you mean white cops, black cops? >> anybody who is a police, who

has the authority of the state. but you can't say in good conscience, oh, cops would be doing a better job, this is comey speaking, if we didn't have these nuisance of people holding them to the law and saying don't abuse people or don't make a video of your camera with them. i think that's weak. >> he didn't say that. >> dana, tell us about what's going on between the white house and the fbi director? >> well i actually believe that everybody actually wants the same thing here. i think that people want safe communities, they want the police to be able to do their job and they want everyone to be able to get along better. i think actually believe that we all believe that. i think that the fbi is hearing, this is what comey said, he has a strong sense that this is having an effect and uptick on the violence against cops. that is that he's been hearing this from people that are his direct reports or people that report to him through the state agencies. so there's that. from the white house's perspective, i think that they, they continue to do the same

exact thing and get no accomplishment. so that different tactic is needed. if i were those guys, i would try to bring in some, find ten reasonable people that you can find on the hill and say here's the a list of the proposals we want to put forward and here's how many people we think could be saved if we were to pass these laws. let people think it through, do the cost-benefit analysis and have a real debate about it. rather than just saying we're going to tell congress to keep passing laws, that congress is not passing. so nobody is getting anything done. >> last month was the deadliest september in chicago since 2002. earlier the president addressed the spiking crime in his home town, despite the fact that that city has sog some of the strictest gun laws in the country. >> they say chicago had a spike in homicides this year. they've got gun safety laws. so this must be proof that tougher gun safety laws don't help. maybe make things worse.

>> the problem with that argument, as the chicago police department will tell you, is that 60% of guns recovered in crimes come from out of state. you just got to hop across the border. >> now let me take the other side of this argument. it's levels. the left wants your guns, they want to level up. level one is increased background checks. level two, national registry. level three, limit of amount of guns, level four, confiscate certain types of guns and certain types of ammunition. juan meanwhile no one is leveling up the bad guys. >> i think you're playing to the sort of paranoid fantasy that leads people to run to the gun store, get more ammunition and get more guns there are real steps that i think reasonable people can take. and one of them that i'm, that i'm always struck by is the fingerprint on the trigger. so that if you, if you get a gun legally, i hope can use it and it's only yours and the bad guys can't get it and take it. >> but the bad guys don't

have -- >> we have so many guns now, we have to take steps, we can't use it as an excuse to do nothing. the amount of murder -- >> there's been a 49% drop in gun homicides since 1993. >> that's true, that's true. but still -- >> but still -- the problem is somehow getting better. i have to commend president obama for saying one thing that goes against black lives matter. he thinks that minority communities need more cops and he's right. >> and cops with guns. cops patrolling the neighborhoods to make sure that there's significant presence that will serve as a deterrent to the criminal recidivists that are plaguing communities, that's the deal. if you look at the gallup poll. >> more cops, not more gun control? >> no, what i'm saying is there's gun control limits and regulations that are in place that are being observed. juan thinks that every, guy that runs with the bloods or the crips is just going getting them in wisconsin or getting them from loose gun fairs. that is not the case. >> where do you think they come

from? >> they're getting them on the street. they're street guns. >> they're illegal. >> guess what -- >> someone buys them and then they traffic them to the bad guys. >> that's why you need stop, question and frisk. what's going on on the corner, people are selling drugs, selling guns you need cops to investigate. >> you know what that leads to people? it leads to lack of trust in the say we need more minority -- >> you didn't mind stop and frisk, it got the bad guys' guns out of their community. >> i don't think that's true, greg. i think kids in fact became more antagonistic towards cops. >> the women, the families, the elderly, were grateful that there were police there to get the guns. >> we need to go, ahead, ben carson made it clear he is strictly pro life and some of the hosts of "the view," think that that stance is despicable and pathetic.

their abortion tirade coming up next. vo: know you have a dedicated advisor and team who understand where you come from. we didn't really have anything, you know. but, we made do. vo: know you can craft an investment plan as strong as your values. al, how you doing. hey, mr. hamilton. vo: know that together you can establish a meaningful legacy. with the guidance and support of your dedicated pnc wealth management team.

a new video has been released by the center for medical progress and its investigation into planned parenthood. in this 11th undercover tape, a doctor is seen laughing while she was striving to deliver an aborted baby with an intact skull for brain harvesting. the abortion debate is one of the key issues at the forefront of the presidential race. republican candidate ben carson was just asked for his position. here was his answer. >> do you want to see roe v. wade overturned? >> ultimately i would love to see it overturned. i'm a reasonable person and if people can come up with a reasonable explanation of why they would like to kill a baby, i'll listen. >> rape and incest? >> rape and incest, i would not be in favor of killing a baby

because the baby came about in that way. >> that set off the ladies at "the view." >> despicable. >> well -- >> what can you say to that, you know? >> it's, you know, sir, no disrespect, truly no disrespect. but it's not your call. you don't decide -- you don't decide, you don't decide for anybody's family here, what they are going through and what they need. >> okay. so dana, you were shaking your head here. >> first of all i'm shaded my head i'm dismayed, learning about this video and the contents of it unlike eric who has the -- he has the tem airty to be able to watch these videos, i haven't, i've read about them, it's so upsetting to me. what bothers me about the positioning of this is that abortion is not the forefront of everybody's mind in terms of going into this election. it is number one across the board, it is the economy in every single poll.

what the republicans end up doing is talking about their right to life views. those are acceptable views and more than half of this country. but you fall into a trap where you become the person who is the only one that is out there talking about those views and then it becomes the only thing that the left wants to talk about. i am proud of ben carson for sticking up for what he believes in and for saying it. however, is he saying it as a presidential candidate that he wants do overturn roe v. wade? i don't think that he is. if he is, that would be news and that would be something that a lot of the candidates want to talk b. i think he is saying that he believes in a culture of life and he is not necessarily trying to overturn a law. if he is trying to overturn a law, that would be something different. we have a viewpoint from "the view," saying that it's despicable for believing that life begins at conception. i don't think that's despicable. i think there's room to respect people like me who believe that is the case. >> this is his right to be able to say what his personal

viewpoints are. what is everyone so afraid of the personal viewpoints of dr. ben carson. a man who works every day of his life to save the lives of children do me it's completely consistent. >> you're talking about abortion. this is, this is, in my mind is the most important question since slavery. for some, it's worse than slavery because there are human beings that aren't even born. that could have the chance of escaping their own destinies. this is not what the debate is actually about. this whole thing was about intact fetal heads being used as products. used to be that adults existed to help preserve the next generation. now adults use the next generation as somehow supplements for their own health whether it's in dire need for an organ, still, you're using a generation as a supplement. as opposed to preserving that generation and making sure it lives a life. it's amazing how lucky, amazing

how the winners at the finish line of life get to deck tate who gets to be at the starting line. but the thing is, that's not what this is about. it's about using fetal heads as products. this is not about -- so when you talk about falling into a trap. what happened was, who was interviewing carson? >> chuck todd. >> chuck todd. >> has taken this idea and pushed it into that realm. so if you are revulsed about what planned parenthood who whoever was in the video about the fetal heads, clearly you want to ban abortion. but that's not the case. i realize abortion is never going away. roe v. wade is here to stay. but you can express morel outrage about a changing morality that we've come to accept certain repulsive things. >> it is like out of a frankenstein movie. >> planned parenthood

frankenstein there. there's moral outrage. and it's also legal. what she's saying was she tried to remove the intact skulls, why? not for any medical purposes, they were more valuable to sell to the labs that wanted to use them for medical research. that's why they were doing it. it's a profit motive. and that by definition is what's against the law. so you can have a moral, not have a moral problem with abortion or what they're doing. but you have to have a legal problem with what they're doing. >> legal and ethical. you should examine the legality and the ethics of it, juan. >> i think we have a set of laws put in place that allow for the use of fetal tissue research, put in place now, decades ago, and you can't do it for profit, if they did it for profit, let me finish, if they did it for profit -- >> let me just say, if they did it for profit, let's get a charge. let's indict somebody.

but there is -- they did not do that. so this is -- >> how do you know? >> this is what they've said. let me just say, this to me is an opportunity for people who have one set of beliefs to talk to each other and say, how horrible and it does nothing about alienate other people and open the door, by the way to hillary clinton saying there's a war on women and this is about, this is what you're talking about and i'm just saying, this is the 11th video. how many videos -- this is not going anywhere for the republicans. >> i think the outrage should be that the videos -- it's not that they would actually have the gall to go out and do an investigative report and find them. it's the galling thing is that no one in the media seems to care. >> imagine if it were new videos showing modern slavery in certain nations. >> or torture. >> torture, right? >> more people are upset about -- >> but the practice is being stopped. so the videos do matter and the more we talk about it, it does

matter. >> the practice of -- >> planned parenthood -- >> we frowned on china with their one baby rule. what are we doing here? we have to take a look at ourselves. >> listen, these are women who are having abortions, who decide they want good to come of it. i think it's a fact. >> we're out of time. juan i'm so sorry you're wrong, but thank you for being here. today is a big day. do you know why? greg's new book is out. so you want to know how to be right? stay right here. your body was made for better things than rheumatoid arthritis. before you and your rheumatologist move to a biologic, ask if xeljanz is right for you. xeljanz is a small pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. xeljanz can reduce joint pain and swelling in as little as two weeks, and help stop further joint damage. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections,

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