martha: ref vennant is the next one on my list. "joy" is one i am told you should avoid. bill: she won. figure that. martha: bye everybody, see you tomorrow. ♪ jon: there is new fallout this morning from the capture of mexico's most notorious drug lord and in a twist straight out after hollywood script, how an oscar-winning actor might have led police to "el chapo." good morning, i'm jon scott. jenna: i'm jenna lee. waa keen guzman or el chap boy as he is known, he was captured friday in a deadly shootout with mexican marines. we're learning from "rolling stone" magazine, that act sore sean penn met with him october and might have helped track him down. william la jeunesse live in los angeles with the twist and

turns william. reporter: penn is being criticized for sympathetic view with the drug lord and allowing it to be seen before it is published. as far as isis or gadhafi no journalist will turn it down. "rolling stone" said it is small price to pay for interview an as it disclosed to readers. a mexican actress who placing a drug dealer on tv, we learned that "el chapo" flew engineers to germany for tunnel training to get him out of prison. also i am performance allegedly tell the cartel when surveillance planes are up looking for "el chapo." in the interview he takes pride being a big-time drug dealer but says he is not responsible for others addiction. [speaking spanish]

reporter: there was a rooster. as they begin extraditing "el chapo" to the u.s., a process that could take up to a year, some criticized penn for fawning over a criminal. others withheld judgment. >> poses a lot of very interesting questions both for him and for others involved in this so-called interview. we'll see what happens on that. i'm not going to get ahead of it. reporter: mexico says penn's interview helped lead ultimately to "el chapo"'s capture though the actor said they took great pains to avoid detection. while the two men met for dinner with tequila in the jungle the actually interview did not take place. penn posed questions and "el chapo" answered in the video. back to you. jenna: a lot of questions where "el chapo" will be held. we have questions for someone

who spent time in that prison where he is being held today. we'll talk about security in the days ahead. william, thank you very much. jon: now this fox news alert out of philadelphia where officers are being warned not to patrol alone in the wake of the ambush of an officer there last week. reportedly police told about three radical associates of the terror suspect who are still at large. edward archer, charged now with attempted murder. police say he pledged allegiance to isis shortly before shooting officer jesse hartnett in his patrol car. officer hartnett is recovering from serious injuries at a philadelphia hospital. coming up later this hour we'll speak with danny coulson, former assistant director of the fbi about this threat and the ongoing investigation. jenna: a little bit what is happening in the markets now. fox news business alert. all eyes on the dow as stocks try to rebound from the worst week in four years. you see the dow is trading lower. a lot has to do with oil prices. crude oil trading at 12-year

low, right around $32 a barrel. there are concerns we could see numbers around $20. what that would mean for our markets is a big question ahead. one of the things we're watch sergeant chinese market after the shanghai composite fell more than 5% there. european markets are broadly higher and a big question today where we will end. ♪ jon: plenty of action in america's election headquarters. we are just hours rway from learning which gop presidential candidates will be on the main stage in the fox business network debate on thursday. lou dobbs will make that announcement at 7:00 p.m. eastern time later today. this comes as we get new fox polls on two key early voting states. in iowa, senator ted cruz is still in the lead but donald trump is within the margin of error. take a look at polling numbers there. senator marco rubio, dr. ben carson and governor jeb bush out the top five. but in new hampshire, donald

trump is way ahead racking up more than double the support of senator rubio who is in second place. senator cruz comes in third followed by governors bush and kasich. joining us to tease apart these numbers, karl rove, former senior advisor and deputy chief of staff to president george w. bush and a fox news contributor as well. karl, obviously you could, based on these numbers, you could come out of iowa and new hampshire with a couple of, not only different leaders but different people in second place. so where does this race go from there? >> well, first of all, let's remember we're now at the point where people in iowa and new hampshire are getting very serious about making up their minds and there is a lot of pliability left in the electorate. these are interesting numbers that came out last week in the "wall street journal." they went and took a look when did people make up their minds in new hampshire. in new hampshire in the last three days of 2000, over a quarter of the voters made up

their mind, including 14% said they made up their mind on the day itself that number grew to 39% of the republicans in 2008. 19%, one out of every five on the last day of the election and by 2012, it was nearly one out of every two voters finally made up their mind in the last three days of the election, including one out of every five, 21% on election day itself. we're at a point every day matters. whether or not you make it into the big debate or not will have a big impact. there is going to be potentially a lot of variability in the race between here and the end. not guaranteed to be variability but lots of people yet to make up their minds. less than one out of every two or one out of every three voters depending what state you're talking about made up their mind. >> that is why retail politicking in new hampshire is so important because voters want to actually shake your hand, look you in the eye and size you up? >> yeah. absolutely. look, it also matters in iowa. we don't have as good numbers on

iowa exit polls because in the past, remember, we held, the iowa caucuses, this is the first time in february. previous they tended to be at beginning of january. look at this, in 2012, 20 one days out, we're 21 days from the iowa caucuses, rick santorum had 6% in that polls. on election day got 24. as you remember nosed out mitt romney at 17. newt gingrich was leading 21 days out came in forth. same thing sort of happened in '08. huckabee led 21 days out with 35% and won on election day with 34. mitt romney essentially stayed even. fred thompson essentially stayed even. john mccain went on the nomination was six points 21 days out, doubled it to 13. actually eclipsed the fourth place guy, who fell to fifth. so there is a lot of variability available in both of these states but particularly in new hampshire where they're used to taking their time and making up

their minds late. jon: well, are you saying we should essentially throw out the poll results that we're looking at right now and just kind of wait and see what the voters do ultimately? >> no. well, that's a good attitude but look, we can say this. if you take a look what appears to be in most of the polls today, ted cruz is leading donald trump in iowa by a small margin. two questions there. one is, what happens in the last 21 days. second of all, what is the relative strength of each candidate's organization because you need to have a stronger organization in a state like caucus state than you do in a primary state because fewer tend to vote in -- fewer people tend to vote in the caucuses. second thing you obviously look at particularly when we get to new hampshire is how much possible change is there? when if you want to look where we are, "real clear politics"

average of the polls. that is probably better guide than any poll. it is late to capture moment because it is rolling average of polls. jon: if iowa especially is place where ground game and organization matters, based on what you're saying about the way people change their minds at last minute i wonder if donald trump's numbers might be artificially inflated? he is a guy who has been on the national stage for decades. he made headlines. had a popular tv show for 15 years running. does that help voters say, trump is my guy right now but when they go to the booth maybe their change their mind? >> well maybe. i think that depends on two things. one is the nature of who his voters are. are they engaged. consumers consume a lot of information. have coherent political view or deeply committed to him or is this epsoddic relationship? the second of what is quality of organization in iowa. i that is frankly more important than the first characteristic.

in iowa, there was interesting story during the christmas holidays he generates big crowds for rallies, but when he had organization for precinct chairman was literally 80 people. for iowa organizational meet something like nobody. we'll see. i think all of the old rules may be broken in this election. trump may break one of those rules but that will be a key test. what is the final percentage going into iowa and what is his percentage coming out. if it is lower than what the polling was, it may indicate the nature of his supporters leads them not to turn out and quality of his organization was less. on the other hand, if it is higher than what his number is, showing he is bringing new people into the system in a pretty powerful way. jon: obviously this is the time of year when you want your campaign to be peaking or at least ascending. give us your take. who is peaking now at just the right time? >> well, remember, peaking within these individual states and you would see that reflected

in the numbers. the iowa it is pretty clear, cruz has been working the state diligently. he is positioning himself as evangelical conservative which is very important in the state, more than half of voters will self-identify as social evangelical christians. he is tapping into that. but also, new hampshire is a different kind of an electorate, cruz will not do as well there. i wouldn't be surprised to see him in third or fourth or fifth place in new hampshire when the voting is all tallied up. jon: karl rove, see what happens. we'll certainly be watching tonight when we find out who will be on the main stage. karl, thank you. >> thank you, jon. happy new year. jon: you as well. do not forget this thursday, january 14th, the best in business hosts the next gop debates. first round starts 6:00 p.m. eastern with trish regan and sandra smith from our sister network, fox business. then leading republican candidates take the main stage at 9:00 p.m. eastern. maria bartiromo and neil cavuto

moderate that debate. jenna: an american woman living in florence is found dead in her apartment. what italian police are doing to find ashley olsen's killers. what is next for the world's most dangerous man. we'll talk to a journalist who has seen the jail he is being held from the inside. do you think it was ethical for "rolling stone" to publish the sean penn's interview with the notorious drug lord? go to foxnews.com/happeningnow to join the conversation. do the. right at home's professional team thoughtfully selects caregivers to provide help with personal care, housekeeping, and of course, meal preparation. oh, that smells so good. aw, and it tastes good, too. we can provide the right care, right at home.

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jenna: right now we delve a little deeper into our top story, the capture of that notorious drug lord in mexico. mexican officials now say they want to talk to shaun penn after his interview with joaquin "el chapo" guzman in his hideout. there are reports it may have led to his event all capture. the. the process to bring "el chapo"

to the united states is underway but we're learning that the process could take at least a year. we have the mexican bureau chief for "the washington post" and has been writing and reporting extensively on this topic. josh, you cover ad bilge topic in the piece you published, how good or how improved is the security at the prison where "el chapo" is today? you were able to see inside of that prison. what can you tell us about it? >> yeah. it is a big prison. it is a modern looking prison for the visitor. outside of mexico city amid farmland. when we went in last year afte he had escaped through a tunnel, you had to go through 15 or 20 different metal gates. there are fingerprint sensors and cameras everywhere. it looks to the outsider like a very modern prison. obviously he was able to both bribe prison officials and threaten them as well as people, his own guys dig this tunnel a mile under the prison to get him

out. so the prison physically hasn't changed anything. whether the procedures are different will be the big question. mexican officials say they are, they have, you know, tightened all the security. there are police and military all around the prison right now. so you know, they're definitely going to be watching. at least in the short term. jenna: what is the reaction in mexico to the "rolling stone" piece? >> people were shocked as he i'm sure they were in the united states because he had been, he just been such a huge figure in the popular imagination here. he has been hunted so extensively by the mexican military as well as the dea from the u.s. there have been big military operations trying to catch him including we now learned right after sean penn met with chapo in october, there was a big military operation in the mountains of durango and sinaloa in central mexico. the fact that a hollywood actor

can get to the guy everyone was trying to get to is shock. jenna: that brings up a question of trust and how trustworthy the mexican government is in this whole endeavor, whether it has been questioned from the public in mexico or otherwise. he has escaped twice before, "el chapo." so that the thought, or idea that he could escape again, how much is that gaining traction, within mexico as a reality? >> yeah. i think it is a huge concern here. you know people don't really trust the government to keep this guy under programs. that's why, you know, that is why i think they agreed to the extradition process. now we're learning like you said it, could take months or more than a year. one of their big drug lords here who was -- seven or eight years for that process to happen. you know, the longer he is in prison i feel like people think, people will relax, security measures will relax.

there will be more opportunity for his guys to make the kind of december that they made to get him out the first time. the other big issues with that sean penn piece did reveal, as he is talking about chapo's guys taking him to this hide yow!, there is army check point and see chapo's son and wave the truck through. there is complicity at least with local military and police and that corruption is huge issue in mexico. not with chapo but all these drug lords. jenna: that is one of the arguments having him extradited to the united states. perhaps he can be held in more secure location which he doesn't have as much leverage which he apparently does. >> right. jenna: what do you think is likelihood he is extradited to the united states? what is the public sentiment in mexico? does the public want him tried and charged in mexico? or is there feeling we have tried this, it hasn't worked out, maybe he should be extradited? >> i think both -- opinion is

divided on that. you've seen politicians say, hey, this is our most important mexican criminal. he should be, he should be tried and convicted here before he gets extradited if at all. he is valuable as prisoner in terms of, he has, he has all this intelligence, all the connections. he knows who he has bribed in the government. he has all the information that mexico wants, you know, to interrogate him as well as united states wants. he is valuable to have here. mexico sees it as a point of pride. we want to prove that our justice system is able to keep this guy safely behind bars. the fact they haven't been able to do it twice put so much pressure on them to extradite him. so you see both forces really at play right now. and in conflict and that is, that's why no one can give you a straight answer when he might, extradited. jenna: something we're watching closely. something else we're watching

whether or not arrest has impact on drug traffic trade which is a larger question especially with some answers he provided to "rolling stone" about his quote, unquote, business. joshua, thanks for being on the program. thanks for joining us. >> thanks a lot. take care. jon: that "rolling stone" article is the subject of our media panel coming up. savory or not? also an american woman found ad in her apartment in florence, italy. detectives call it a homicide. ho police are questioning in rome. a woman suspected of robbing jewelry stores across the south. how they were able to track this suspect down.

days after the paris attacks, senators came together for a top-secret briefing on the terrorist threat... marco rubio was missing - fundraising in california instead. two weeks later, terrorists struck again in san bernardino... and where was marco? fundraising again in new orleans. over the last 3 years, rubio has missed important national security hearings and missed more total votes than any other senator. politics first: that's the rubio way. right to rise usa is responsible for the content of this message.

jenna: right now some crime stories we're following. a maryland judge delaying the

trial of section officer charged in the death of freddie gray. police van driver, caesar goodson faces most serious charge in the case. second degree depraved murder. the judge postponed that trial until an appeals court decides whether another officer will testify against goodson. meantime new york city police are looking for a fifth suspect in the gang rape of an 18-year-old woman at a brooklyn playground. the four in custody range from ages 14 to 11. authorities say the woman was accosted as she and her father were walking through the park. newly-filed court records v. revealed the fbi zeroed in on a woman suspected in jewelry robberies analyzing cell phone information. that the one phone number showed up in jewelry stores in florida, georgia, and south carolina. they used the phone to identify and arrest the 24-year-old. jon: american artist living in florence is found dead in her apartment. italian police investigating the death of 35-year-old ashley old

send as a homicide. the florida native found with bruises and scratches on her neck. authorities are questioning her friends as well as her boyfriend. amy kellogg live in rome with the details. reporter: hi, jon, apparently ashley olsen's boyfriend alibi stands up. in other words at this point he is not considered a suspect. and according to italy's premier news agency, the focus, jon, is now shifting to a nightclub, a latenight bar called monte carlo with a checkered reputation. that is apparently where some of ashley olsen's friends saw her hanging out thursday night into friday. it is a place that we're told has been shut down several times for drug violations and for that reason has an unsavory reputation. to the best of our knowledge autopsy is being carried out right now. may possibly have just wrapped up. that will help the, particularly if the time of death can be

pinpointed and matched from cc--tv film from cameras in the neighborhood where ashley lived. the other piece of crucial information, ashley olsen's sell phone is missing. she recently had argument with her boyfriend. a well-known and up-and-coming florentine artist. they hadn't been in touch in days. he claimed he wanted to check up on her saturday midday and found her dead. her constant companion and beagle named scout was outside of the apartment when the boyfriend founder. friends remember ashley and herself an artist as tremendously warm and fun person. >> i can't imagine a person who would hurt her. she is a gentle, kind, beautiful, friendly, lovely girl and it is an awful shock. we've got a great community here of people and everyone loved her. reporter: ashley olsen, jon,

really seemed to love italy and florence being in the art world. it is the place to be. her father had come over here. that is why ashley moved to italy back in 2012. so she was surrounded by the art scene and loved italy and florence. people now though are saying that they really hope this doesn't turn into another amanda knox case. to many people's minds, jon, that case is still not fully resolved. jon? jon: amy kellogg reporting live live from rome, thank you, amy. >> sean penn secretly meets with the drug lord "el chapo" for an interview. the movie star and "rolling stone" magazine are facing backlash. we look at the ethical questions raised by this controversial interview. what makes this simple salad the best simple salad ever?

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jenna: a new court action for the mother of the so-called affluenza teen. tonya couch is accused of running off to mexico with her teen. he claimed his wealthy parents coddled him, making it difficult for him to understand the consequences of his actions. casey stegall is live outside

the courthouse where the hearing will be held. reporter: 48-year-old tonya couch being held on $1 million bond. if she would want to get sprung she would have to put up collateral or pay a bail bons manned 10% of that. $100,000 would be her get out of jail card. her attorney has filed a motion to get that bond reduced to $15,000. lawyers for the teen's mom have called the fee unreasonable. so that is the argument they will be making today. that same judge who arraigned her friday will consider whether to lower the amount. the court also ordered tonya couch undergo a mental health

evaluation. when the time comes for her to post that bond and go free, the court would allow her to only do that with certain restrictions in place. she would be required to wear a gps ankle monitor and surrender her passport. he does not want her disappearing again like they did at the end of november. she and her son when they fled to mexico, jenna. jon: ethical questions are swirling after "rolling stone" magazine published an interview with joaquin el chapo guzman, this while he was on the run after escaping from a maximum security prison. penn even allowed guzman top

approve the article before it was published, but rollingstone says he requested no changes. what do you think about what sean penn did here? >> it's an insult to the mexican journalists who face death every day. 88 have been murdered over the last two decades because they confronted the cartel's messages. they are understood threat of death if they don't write what the cartels want them to write. this is a farce, it makes a mockery of what journalists try to do every day. it's a sympathetic article. giving him editorial control is extraordinary. but i don't think it's a good thing to say that the drug lord

didn't need any changes. this is a fake journalist putting snore journalists in danger pass more journalists are being murdered and captured worldwide. jon: what do you think of the article? >> i think it's great. the only problem i have is you shouldn't give prior approval. sean penn is not a journalist, he's an actor. the fact that we got more information and this lead led to the recapture of guzman, so the end result is pretty good. a lot of information in that article gave us insight into who this person is, how he thinks, this lifestyle and led to his ultimate capture. i applaud sean penn for doing it. jon: here is one of his lines. he's talking about how he expected to find el chapo to be

soulless. he says soullessness. wasn't it soullessness that i must perceive in him for myself to be perceived as other than an apologist? i tried shard folks and reminded myself over and over the devastation existing in all corners of the narco world. this simple man from a simple place surrounded by the simple affections of his sons towards their father and his towards them does not strike me as the big bad wolf. >> he is an apologist explaining sure he has killed people, but only if it's really necessary. he's a businessman first sean penn writes and he resorts to that only when it would help his business. you are looking at not just having access to someone and

doing a good job and getting information. but you are looking at someone writing a story reinforcing the idea that it's okay to get access. he's not a journalist but it's being presented as journalism. that's the problem when real journalists are being murdered because necessity won't do this kind of thing. now there is more emphasis on you better and this is the way you should operate. jon: the fact he knew going in that he was going to allow the guy to review the article before it was published. he didn't ask for of any changes, but sean penn went into the article asking -- solve obama questions like do you have any dreemss. if you could change the world, what would you change?

>> i'm not supporting what el chapo does. sean penn -- we know a lot more about him now, and this did lead to his capture. overall this is a positive. he's back in the realm of the authorities. i think it many fascinating how these -- i think it's fascinating how these people think. >> whether it's what el chapo or charles manson or al-baghdadi thinks. it's madness, criminality, mass murder and death. this is not an unusual dynamic. he's not an unpush man when it comes to the nature of evil individuals. this idea that we are getting a clear view of who this person is through this framework and sean penn is also a problem.

jon: the article reached the realm of presidential politics. some have suggested sean penn should be prosecuted for trying to conduct this interview. here is what senator marco rubio on the gop side had to say. >> if one of these american actors who benefited from the greatness of this country, want to fawn over a criminal and drug traffickers in their interviews, they have a constitutional right to do it, i find it grotesque. >> as long as sean penn or anyone in his position isn't getting in the way of the government prosecuting or finding these criminals, you are not in violation. this know law that's been violated here. jon: it looks like a black eye to rolling stone magazine. but you like it. >> the real issue is journalists

nt dangers they face. jon: tammy bruins alan colmes, thank you both. jenna: a case before the supreme court on the unions in this country. officials learned the suspect in the shooting death of one officer in philadelphia could be part of a larger group. >> he knew who was shooting at.

jenna: the f.b.i. is investigating an ongoing threat targeting police in philadelphia. woman reportedly telling officers a man who confessed to ambushing a police officer was part of a larger radical group.

edward archer is accused of shooting jesse hartnett in his patrol car in the name islamic state. danny, what do you think of this account? one woman saying this guy is part of a bigger group? >> i'm not surprised. i think it's significant that the tip came from the community which belies the fact that we have that problem in the inner city. the fact that a concerned citizen comes forward expressing concern for officers. that's a great thing. this individual just came back from saudi arabia after being with a group that pushes these activities. is isis here? they are here. it's a worldwide movement and now they are targeting our police officers much like the black liberation army did in the

70s. i have very, very strong concerns about friends and relatives in that business. >> we have to reevaluate how we are patrolling and policing because of it. what are some of the instant changes we should make? >> first of all. it's been the process for years to have one car, a one-for patrol cars that gives them more covering. but not you world has changed. we need two officers in a patrol car. they need to be in pairs and need to be trained how to protect themselves. but this idea of a one-officer patrol car has got to go away at least for the foreseeable future. jenna: you talk about the enemy we face. >> in the last 20 months we have arrested or killed more than 90

isis suspects in america who my contacts inside the f.b.i. have said in the last 14 years they have never seen a calendar year with so much jihaddest activity on u.s. soil. that's just the fact of the matter. 30% of the people we inter^deducted have no intention of traveling to syria or iraq, they decided to kill americans in america like this policeman in philly. jenna: scary just hearing that. they want to do it here. they can fight right here. until we as a government decide we are at war and until they admit it and let us do the thing we do in war time. we need to go after these guys

where they are. where you see success overseas, that bleed recruits. they see that black isis flag over one of our tanks and that gives them energy. we have got go after them. the colombians went after faorck. jenna: talk about the coordination between the f.b.i. and local law enforcement. is there something we are doing wrong today that we can fix so that we could be more efficient? you have a lot of these guys and girls, pardon the expression, work on the front lines and doing the best job they can despite the political correctness. what can we be doing better? >> i think the fact the f.b.i. is engaged in these task forces

with local law enforcement. it brings expertise. but the on-ground intelligence that comes from the police departments, that's invaluable. the problems are a.g. guidelines. that's a huge impediment to the investigation. jon: a key legal case now before the supreme court. how it could affect the power of unions across this country. the powerball jackpot grows even bigger after nobody won saturday night. lottery fever heating up.

jon: let's check out what's ahead on "outnumbered" for this monday. harris: donald trump calls hillary clinton an enabler, not a victim in bill clinton's sex scandal. even though she said she wasn't going to do this, she is responding. will this help trump or backfire. andrea: bernie sanders is giving hillary clinton a run for her money in new hampshire. harris: schools holdingparentin. all parents are urged to attend.

jon: the supreme court taking up an important union case. the justices taking up arguments in a case that could force people to join unions. reporter: this pits free speech against compelled union support. a group of teachers in california are suing because even though they aren't members of the union were forced to pay dues. they say that forces them to tritry beaut to a juneon whose ideas they don't agree with. >> i pay for collective

bargaining stances the union takes and i disagree with them. this union was voted in when i was a child and i have no vote as a fee pair. these unions are not speaking on my behalf. they are speaking for the leadership. reporter: those teachers will have to convince the supreme court to overturn a case they decided four decade ago. there were justices uncomfortable with that. justhat. that. other justices were saying when something is wrong, we have gotten it wrong in the past, we fix it moving forward. justice kennedy said these people who pay the fees but don't join the tuneons, they are

compelled riders. there are unions supporting the union in this case. the national nurses union said this has nothing to do with individual right and everything to do with the larger far right in defunding and crippling unions in their ability to represent the interests of their members and the public interest. jenna: have you bought another ticket yet? the power ball jackpot soaring to $1.4 billion. the digital marquee reads $999 million. jon: new next hour of "happening now." the world mourns the loss of a

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ahhh! aw man are you kiddin' me? jenna: thanks for joining us. jon: "outnumbered" starts now. harris: this is "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. kennedy from fox business "kennedy." and judge alex ferrer bringing the sunshine and he's out numbered. >> never as happy to be a minority as when i'm on this couch. i didn't bring snow and i didn't bring rain. andrea: can i tell the story of why i don't like