"morning with maria" fox business network. have a good sunday. on "the buzz meter" the pundits bowing to reality as donald trump wins a major victory in south carolina and even the media skeptics give him his due. >> just as sure as a lot of people that donald trump would stagger out of that debate and possibly finish in second place. >> he was often regarded, milz included, as a candidate who would be a novelty candidate. huge credit to donald trump. >> we didn't see this. we didn't understand that he was such strong medicine. sxroo this is a decisive triumphant win. >> of course it's trump at this point. he looks like he could run the table. >> there's still a lot of discussion among republicans who say i still can't believe he's going to be the nominee. >> trump dominating the coverage

again through an extraordinary fight with pope francis, a war of words with george w. bush, and an ugly slugfest with ted cruz. >> never seen anybody that lied as much as ted cruz, and he goes around saying he's a christian. i don't know. you're going to have to really study that, but he is a very unstable person. that's just my opinion. >> i understand if a candidate has a record like donald trump's how he could consider anyone pointing to his actual record being defamation. donald's response to this, his response to this, no one will be surprised, is to scream liar because that's his response to everything. >> hillary clinton beating bernie sanders in yesterday's nevada caucuses changing the media's negative narrative, but is it time for the pundits to ak thoge that t knowledge that the socialist senator is a contender.

plus, apple battling federal authorities over whether it can and should unlock the iphone of one of the san bernardino killers. has the coverage been fair? i'm howard kurtz and this is "media buzz." the media has insisted for many, many months, but donald trump winning back ba-to-back primaries, they are grudgingly acknowledging he is a front-runner. >> a number of the pundits said, well, if a couple of the other candidates dropped out, if you add their scores together, it's going to equal trump. but these geniuses, they're geniuses, they don't understand that as people drop out, i'm going to get a lot of those votes also. you don't just add them together. >> and we have geniuses joining

us to analyze the campaign coverage. mary katherine ham a fox news contributor. heidi priz bal la and julie raginski. mary katherine, i have argued for eight long months on this network the media must take trump seriously. are the pundits coming out of denial? >> there's a couple steps here. i don't know if you're familiar with the stages of grief. we've gone from anger to denial to bargaining. we're going to bargain hard and the media will be happy to cover all these scenarios. i think it is true that people can come together and coalesce into an anti-trump candidate. the question is whether any of these guys that remain are going to get out and that will continue to be mar beginning story moving forward. >> yes. it's not that the race ended yesterday, but, heidi, given all the air time trump gets and we've talked about it many times, how much of some of the

mainstream pundits actually helped trump so far? >> that's an important distinction. you have the pundits and the mainstream press and it's very different. if you remember from almost the beginning some of the commentate whose get the most hair time who reach millions of people were taking trump seriously, guys like joe scarborough and mark halperin. then you combine that with the live coverage that, sorry, no other candidate got, even though when you look at the raw percentage numbers, bernie sanders was getting about the same numbers in terms of the percentage, not getting that kind of coverage. >> msnbc takes many of his rallies live, sometimes the other cable networks dip in and the press conferences tend to be live. but isn't that balanced by the fact that you have people on the right and the left, this network you look at george will and charles krauthammer and karl rove who are basically being -- i'll put it diplomatically, highly critical. >> and do you see them on msnbc?

if you're assuming that the american public channel surfs and looks at all the different networks, then maybe you can make that case, but we know that people in this country don't get their news that way. >> julie, let's put up the cover of "the new york daily news" which does not like trump. today's headline, confederacy of dunces, blaming the voters of south carolina for the result. i think it's being a biased rag, but does it indicate there's still a section of the media that are going to fight him every step of the way? >> there's a huge section of the media. that's a tabloid. you really can't take them seriously. we in the media, a lot of people in the media, are the drug dealers that feed this crack addiction. regardless of how you foal about donald trump, they put him on the cover. they're not putting ted cruz on the cover, not anybody else on the cover. whether you have people that you just mentioned trashing him or complimenting him, nevertheless, we're all talking about him

across every network -- >> it sounds vaguely illegal, the crack addiction. >> it should be but it's not apparently. >> carrying him live and fighting with him even as a media person gets you viewers, gets you people which is why folks who would like to challenge him should have made fought with him earlier, cruz and rubio among them. >> i say again and again that the negative coverage helps trump in part because he runs against the press, not a popular institution. youainstream pundits. on msnbc last night, primary night, chris matthews and lawrence o'donnell were you a hmong those saying if this person drops out and the sun rises over here he could still be beaten. brian williams said you sound like a democrat at the salad bar of rationalization. >> my favorite joint. >> we saw a lot of commentators obviously jumping on this extraordinary news of donald trump and pope francis exchanging less than pleasantries and saying this

would hurt trump. let's take another look at how that exchange went. >> translator: a person who thinks only about building walls wherever they may be and not of building bridges is not christian. this is not the gospel. >> the pope said something to the effect that maybe donald trump isn't christian, okay? and he's questioning my faith. i was very surprised to see it, but i am a christian and i'm proud of it. okay. for a religious leader to question a person's faith is disgraceful. >> you know, interestingly, the pundits didn't exactly excommunicate trump for those sharp words against the pontiff who did start it by questioning his faith. >> the lord giveth the donald another media cycle right before the south carolina primary. i think, look, there was a lot of coverage of this that was like is this real life? there was a point at which this gets so insane, this war of words between trump and the pope, i would caution people that escalating a war of words with the pope, let's imagine

what would happen escalating a war of words with leaders in the world once -- >> i have to actually correct something because the pope didn't technically start this. a month ago donald trump referred to this pope as a very political pope, and then if you look also at the way that the question was worded to the pope, it was kind of a very leading question -- >> well, i have some of that for you. this hasn't gotten as much question. this is on the pope's plane coming back from mexico to the vatican and phil, a reuters correspondent, says to the pontiff, trump said you're a pawn of the mexican government. he wants to build a balwall, det 11 million immigrants, separating families. what do you think of these accusations against you and can a north american catholic vote for a person like this. is that a fair and balanced question? >> it's a leading question. if you're reporting it in print or broadcast, i think the context here is very important. whenever you're asking anyone this type of question, but also

this pope apparently has -- he's a human being too. he's prone to anger and responding to things that might sound insightful, and i think in hindsight and i think both the pope and donald trump rolled back a little bit -- >> i just want to set you up with the sound bite. trump did soften on cnn. let's take a quick look at what he had to say. >> pope made the statement, and i think it was probably a little nicer statement than reported by you folks in the media because after i read it, it was a little bit softer. >> well, first of all, if there's nothing that you can count on as much as the sun rising in the east is that donald trump will walk back every incendiary statement he makes. i will say though donald trump -- i think it's pronounced buford, the only catholic majority county in south carolina. he won it. i guess picking a fight with the pope is not necessarily bad if you're trying to appeal to catholic voters. >> is your point about the walking make is trump makes the incendiary charge, gets an explosion of coverage, and when asked about it in interviews,

even though he's doing interviews to his credit, he softens. >> he have ti-- every time. the base that appeals to whatever incendiary thing he says, responds to it. >> in general the media covering the pope want him to comment on politics and maybe we could be nor nuanced about how we address the pope. >> i think people are aware this pope has been a little more if you want to say political, having been out there. when he came to his visit to the u.s. talking openly about things, the environment and telling truth to his followers. >> abortion and divorce and many conservatives see him as left leaning whether that's fair or not. we're talking about the way trump sort of controls the media dialogue which he has done throughout this campaign. when he gets into it with ted cruz, we saw the sound bites earlier and says he's going to sue senator cruz over an ad he didn't like, are we devouring that and then cruz has to respond of course of course, and

now you're on trump's turf? >> yes, and also it is a story. it's a story when these two seeming front-runners fight each other. i think this played out on another level with rubio sort of grabbing the trump attacks on cruz and using them to his advantage as well which showed up in exit polling with people thinking his campaign was unfair. >> on that point, marco rubio apparently has finished second in south carolina, the final tally not in. but he made a big deal, and the media made a big deal, about this photo shopped picture that showed rubio shaking hands with president obama. kind of casting it as a dirty trick and cruz as a deceitful guy. did you think it deserved that much coverage? >> i don't know about that one particular instance, but the problem was and here is where donald trump is right, it was a part of a pattern of things that we're seeing all the way back to iowa, including the robocalls, including this photo shopping and the trey gowdy facebook page. so it played -- the reason why it got a lot of coverage, because it played in a

narrative. ted cruz himself was aware that this is really going off the rails and he pulled ben carson into some kind of storage locker and tried to say, hey, man, let's be friends again. >> this is the daily beast reporting on this closet meeting between cruz and carson. i love that. but on this photo shop thing i think it was obvious. it obviously wasn't a real photo. their heads had been put on a different photo. finally trump this morning been on four sunday shows so far, and he tweeted about "the wall street journal" which had that "wall street journal"/nbc poll which had the south carolina race down to five points. he won by double digits. "wall street journal" should fire both its pollster and its editorial board, seldom has a paper been so wrong. totally biased. fine to criticize the poll but the editorial board is sxosed to be biased. it's an opinioned group of people. we'll talk more, have you guys back a little later. ahead, is the press engaging in hypocrisy in the battle over whether to fill antonin scalia's supreme court seat? when we come back, jeb bush bowing out after his brother

george tries to rescue his candidate. will that change the way we cover the republican party?

the pundits have already been speculating when jeb would get out of the race. jeb bush finished in single digits in south carolina and called it quits, most likely ending the bush dynasty. joining us from nashville is jon meacham, the former editor of "newsweek" and offer of destiny and power, the american odyssey of george herbert walker bush. jon, the media which one anoi anointed jeb the front-runner were trying to push him out of the race. does his political demise in the campaign change the way we cover and define the republican party?

>> unquestionably. although donald trump has changed that and the press has been obviously part of that process. you know, this is the end of almost a 70-year story. jeb's grandfather first ran for the senate in 1950. six of the last nine presidential tickets on the republican side had a bush on it. and so the shift from jeb bush and that kind of republican, mitt romney, george w. bush, those kind of republicans to a front-runner like trump obviously changes the entire conversation. >> barbara bush complained at one point that the pundits or the press were ignoring her son, but although he had some improvement toward the end didn't the media reflect the fact he was just not a very good candidate? >> i think it was more of a mirror than a maker. you know, this has been -- you've talked about this a lot on your show and elsewhere. it's just been a year where the whole playbook has been rewritten, and you have this extraordinary personality in

trump, but it's beyond the politics of personality. this is someone who is speaking to deep emotional forces and reservoirs in the country and it's part of the tragedy in some ways of this moment for jeb bush that so much of the anger is at an establishment that his family has personified. >> bush 43, of course, coming in south carolina with former first lady laura bush to try to rescue jeb's candidacy. that proved impossible but he got into it with donald trump who, as you recall, just last weekend that trump really went after the former president in the debate. let's take a look at that. >> george bush made a mistake. we can make mistakes but that one was a beauty. we should have never been in iraq. i want to tell you, they lied. they said there were weapons of mass destruction. there were none and they knew there were none. >> i understand that americans are angry and frustrated, but we do not need someone in the oval office who mirrors and inflames

our anger and frustration. >> jon, i saw one pundit after another saying it was insane for a republican candidate to go after the last republican president in the debate and yet trump still won south carolina. >> no, it proves that trump is defying political gravity. you know, he decided to take on george w. bush. he has sort of -- i don't know if he's backpedaled exactly on the lying. he certainly side pedaled by saying he doesn't want to get into it anymore. >> anderson cooper of cnn asked him four times are you still saying that bush lied about knowing in advance that saddam had no wmds and he kept deflecting the question. >> right. so what you have is someone who sort of alludelude the fact che to some extent. whether that holds true going forward is a great question. to take on whether president bush kept us safe after 9/11, to

take on the question of iraq and wmd shows to some extent part of trump's appeal here is that it's a bipartisan commentary. he's willing to say almost anything about the different parts of the establishment, including the last republican president. >> right. and i think just to put an exclamation point on it, seven years ago this was george w. bush's republican party. whether it's in the process of becoming donald trump's party it's hard to say. but an era has bowed out. >> thank you. ahead on "media buzz" will the press create a new story line for hillary clinton. and up next, how much did donald trump's coverage contribute to his victory? our media microscope is straight ahead. feel a cold sore coming on? only abreva can heal it in as

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does media coverage translate into votes? it's little wonder that donald trump scored a big victory in the south carolina primary. trump totally dominated in the mainstream media outlets as much as in any week we studied in the past. look at this, for monday through thursday more than 13,000 media mentions as he sparred with george w. bush and pope francis. it's almost triple the media mentions for ted cruz who had nearly 5700. jeb bush with a little help from his family plus speculation about whether he was on his last legs rising here to more than 4100. not that it did him good. marco rubio more than 3600 and then a big drop-off. john kasich over 1,000 mentions and ben carson just over 800. not much difference in tone among the most covered candidates. negative in red, positive in green. trump, cruz, push, rubirubio, a

r hovering around two-thirds negative. in our press picks this media fail, msnbc's chris hayes gave viewers the impression that bill clinton had take an hard shot at president obama-he. here is the clip he played. >> she's always making something good. a lot of people say, oh, well, you don't understand, it's different now. it's rigged. yeah, it's rigged because you don't have a president who is a changemaker. >> except it turns out that the msnbc program engaged in some deceptive ed ditting. her is the rest of what the former president said. >> yeah it's rigged because you don't have a president who is a change maker of who has a has a

congress that will work with him. but the president has done a better job than he has been given credit. >> we did not characterize clinton haas trashing the president. we said he went off message which is arguably true but here is the important thing. in cutting off the clip we didn't allow you to make the judgment for yourselves. we shouldn't have done that. >> he should not have done that. but at least he corrected the error. still ahead on "media buzz," will the media start writing off bernie sanders once again. and then the supreme court vacancy. do pundits and politicians keep switching sides depending on who controls the white house?

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it was always just a hobby. something you did for fun. until the day it became something much more. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars. ♪ apple has been getting hammered in the media for it confusing a federal judge's order that it help the fbi unlock the iphone that belonged to one of the killers in the something massacre. donald trump calling for a boycott of the company until they comply. joining us now shana glenzer, a technology analyst. do you agree that many of the stories and the headlines are painting apple as being not just uncooperative but unpay tree ottic. >> a lot of the headlines seem fair but if you listen to the

banter on news or social media, there is quite universal agreement that apple is not being patriotic in this case. >> more of the media chatter. >> the chatter, not necessarily the headlines. >> apple says right now it doesn't have the technology to help the feds unlook lock or break into the phone. explain a little bit about the company's position. i think sometimes it's mischaracterizes. >> absolutely. apple's defense is it doesn't have this security work around this, back door. and if they were to create that it could get used or hacked and be dispersed to any i-phone user. my mom, my grandma could have their information stolen. >> we value privacy. >> we very much value rightsy. >> part of what an cell selling is that you have a phone that can't be hacked into easily. statement i'm saying what do you mean they can't help the fbi.

it is a terrorist act. it's not about protecting the privacy of frook. but it's about whether or not the hackers get ahold of this work around code and whether foreign governments want to use it. >> it's not about this particular instance. thing build the technology. but then if it's applied to one i-phone can it be supplied to how many number of others. and when does the government say it can be used. that's their concern. >> a lot of folks reported that an 'em has previously cooperated in 70 other cases with law enforcement. the new york sometimes running a correction saying apple extracted data, but did not unlock those phones. it sounds like the phones are more unhackable because of better technology, right. >> absolutely. apple created the technology post snowden, they used it in

advertising against competitors, we're more private. in doing so, they made it harder for the fbi, others, to get access that could be helpful in terrorist or other investigations. >> a number of news outlets made that mistake, for basically comparing, forgive me, apples and oranges. as somebody who is in field, bottom line dooumpg do you think apple has a good case? >> i think apple has a good case. i don't think they should cease from engaging on a -- iffer going to say you can't get access to this i-phone. we need to have another discussion to agree that this is important data that could help the terrorist investigation and how can we get it in other instances than this. >> whether apple has a good case on the technology or legal arguments, would you agree in 20 seconds that it is that tim cook and the company are losing the p.r. war here? >> i think they are fighting an uphill battle. i think there are a lot of

people that squarely side in tech companies on tim cook's side. but in the general population they are oouz losing the battle this week. >> when donald trump says boycott apple, a lot of people say yeah, an 'em needs to comply snits a complicated issue. and you made a good point it's more nuanced than the television conversations allow for. still to come, a price tag on tmz, checkbook journalist, and omar owesa when another woman's physique is mocked. feel a cold sore coming on? only abreva can heal it in as few as two and a half days when used at the first sign. it penetrates deep and starts to work immediately to block the virus and protect healthy cells.. don't tough it out, knock it out, fast. abreva.

the new yorker wasn't able to talk to harvey levin for a lengthy and flattering profile. so they recounted an interview i did after the site fought those elevator videos of ray rice decking his fiancee. you are in a business, fox news channel makes money.

it is a profitable police station. tmz is profitable operation. abc, nblz, and cbs. the fact is they are not charitable organizations. they make money. >> yes. >> if somebody comes along and says look i've got this radioi would like you to pay for it. by paying for it the video is still the video. who cares whether you pay money for it. >> some of us care about checkbook journalist. the new yorker says tmz paid more than $100,000 for the surveillance videos one of them from the security officer who recorded the elevator footage on his cell phone. only rosa and tearr tara holder had things go to have rails. >> let's talk about iraq, and let's talk about donald trump's position when tamara says -- >> it's tamara. >> it's the same difference. you want to come on with big bobs then you deal with the pronunciation of your name. donald trump stands firm on what

his position is about us going into iraq. >> wait a second. what are you -- why are you bringing up tamara's books? >> it's what he says -- >> he is going back talking about you were a democrat and you supported hillary clinton. if you want to get personal we can get personal. let's talk about donald trump and iraq. >> how does the size of my books -- considering this is how i was born. >> no, i called you a bob. i'm sorry. i should have called you a bob. >> that was a big blunder. why go there? >> i never have gotten why what anybody cares about politics. now we know how she deals with women who she disagrees with. >> he just passed 20,000 likes on our facebook page. check it out, become part of the conversation. i respond to your comments and your questions. media buzz at fox news.com.

don't officer goat dvr the show if for some chant chance you can't watch lichblt we're back next sunday at 11 late developing news from the presidential campaign trail. has two of the top vote-getters from south carolina, in a fresh round of fighting words over who's best to take on the man in first place. donald trump. >> i think donald's campaign has largely been about how bad things are. there's no doubt we need to recognize how difficult things are, but you can't just say you're going to make america great again. have you to explain how you're going to do it. >> we're seeing people come together behind our campaign because we are the only campaign that has beaten donald trump and that can beat trump. you can't beat donald from the left up. can't beat donald with a candidate who has supported amnesty. >> well, this is the part of the primary season when the races are