factor" from anywhere in the world. word of the day, do not be a pettifogger. please remember the spin stops here because we're definitely looking out for you. breaking tonight. belgium on high alert. and americans across europe are being warned their very safety may be at risk, as we learn isis may be deploying hundreds of fighters across the continent in a "wave of bloodshed." welcome to "the kelly file." i'm sandra smith in for kelly tonight. it's been more than 36 hours since terrorists first attacked the brussels airport, and a busy subway system. at this hour, a number of americans still remain

unaccounted for. authorities are working hard to determine if they could be among the 31 innocent people killed or the 270 left injured. police are desperate to locate the man you see here in the light colored jacket, who was spotted with two of the airport bombers. it's believed he took off before the bombs exploded near the u.s. airline counters. because of the bomb's proximity to american airliners, some are now questioning if america herself was an intended target. listen. >> i think it's possible that it was -- that it was a proxy. keep in mind, a lot more is going to become available, but the locations to me clearly were where americans would be. >> shepard smith joins us live from brussels. what's the latest there? >> reporter: good evening. i must say with no disrespect to the senator or anyone else, the speculation is unwarranted.

the aisles where the bombers blew up their bombs were used by different airlines at different times on different days. authorities say they are certain that these bombers chose those particular locations because that's where the lines were longest. you take the bomb to where the lines were longest, that causes the most injury and that was clearly their goal. the headline today is that the bomber himself, the man who made the ones, believed to be the one who made the ones in paris and here is dead. his name is najim laachraoui. they found his dna on the suicide vests in november in paris, and they found him blown up inside the airport at that terminal where the two suicide bombers carried out their mission. so the bomber, the man who made the bombs, and one of two brothers dead there in the airport. the other of two brothers killed in the subway when he exploded his suitcase. the one man still at large is a man for whom we have no identity, we don't know his

name, what sort of participation he might have had and where he might have gone. witnesses initially said he may have run out during the bombings, but now authorities lead us to believe that they are of the opinion that he left prior to the explosions, whether he chickened out, or just left and changed his mind, whether he realized his bomb wouldn't detonate. those are matters for future news conferences. and further, authorities are insistent they believe some other unknowns also played a part in some way in these bombings. they have not given us any descriptions or reason that they have that to believe. they tell us they're looking for unknown people and raids are being carried out across the city even as we speak. those are the headlines here. i would say there are a number of investigations ongoing inside the neighborhood where they found that bomb making factory. and the taxi cab driver who led authorities to that house is being hailed as a hero here locally. he saw the pictures on screen, said that looks like the guys i took to the airport.

led authorities to that home and that's where they found 33 pounds of that explosive that was used in all of these bombings. keep in mind, one pound of explosives is all they needed for the suicide vests in paris. >> shepard, what do you know about this neighborhood, molenbeek, where we're learning so many are becoming radicalized? >> reporter: the two brothers, khalid and ibrahim both grew up there and lived there for decades. it's neighborhood separate from the rest of the city. different police officers there, different language there. they didn't cooperate well with the national authorities. unemployment rate around 33%. a young person's unemployment rate in the mid 40s. and varied suggestions from almost everyone there, it's very hard to get ahead there. so you have that sort of an

environment where people are looking for a way out and then in come the jihadis from syria saying we have a plan for you, we have a place that you can belong. like a cult would, they become brainwashed. now the task is to get the federal and local police and community organizers together change that culture. >> shepard smith live for us in brussels, belgium tonight. president obama faces criticism for choosing to continue his overseas trip. and even attended a baseball game in cuba. the former cia director suggesting this was a sign that the president doesn't view the attacks as all that important. >> this is going to sound harsh, but i think it's true. that wasn't a mistake, that wasn't weakness. that was policy. his going to the ballpark, and his spending less than a minute commenting on the attack. i actually believe in his heart

of hearts, the president's policy is, that is not that big a deal. there are other things that are more important and that is what he was messaging. >> president obama says that is not the case. >> i've got a lot of things on my plate. but my top priority is to defeat isil, and to eliminate the scourge of this barbaric terrorism that's been taking place around the world. >> dr. sebastien gorka is author of "defeating jihad." good evening to you, sir. >> good evening. thank you. >> so is this criticism of president obama not coming home following these attacks, is it warranted? >> well, you just quoted a career air force general, head of the central intelligence

agency, and i tend to agree with general hayden. the statements made by the president smack of the mary antoinette-ish attitude, let the people eat cake. terrorism seems to be a distraction from his life of being a celebrity. he wants to be hanging out with communist dictators and going to ball games. isis is simply not treated as a threat by this president or at least he doesn't give the impression that he really cares about our allies and the americans that were wounded. let's think about one thing here -- >> the white house response to that, president obama's response is he said we let the terrorists win if we all stay home and don't go about our daily business and he said today, isis is his number one -- that is his top priority. why is there a disconnect in what we feel versus what we see? >> these are just empty words.

he said we have to unite to defeat the terrorists, but how? how are we going to defeat the terrorists while he's watching a ball game and giving interviews to espn? the fact is, we have to do something concrete. and also, it is the duty of the commander in chief to rally the people, to send a message that we will fight and destroy this evil scourge that is global jihadism. it's not enough to say, we're on top of it. remember, the day before san bernardino, the second largest attack on u.s. soil after september 11, both the president and secretary kerry said, isil is contained and we are winning this war. this is not how you win wars. >> so what would an appropriate response from the white house be to this? >> coming back home as soon as possible, making a statement from the rose garden or from the oval office to the american people about how we will not stand for this, who the enemy

is, that they're really evil and we will destroy them and to do something tangible for the belgians, for the people that need our help right now. to send a message. and most important of all, if you want to have the long game, if you read my book, this war will be won by our muslim allies in the region, and we have to help the egyptians and jordanians much more than we are doing today. >> so dr. gorka, the associated press reporting today that isis has trained and deployed hundreds of their fighters to europe to carry out these terrorist attacks. we saw the state department today warn u.s. travelers, if you go there, to be vigilant, to be careful where you attend like ball games. where is this going? >> you don't have to hypothesize. just look at the fact, my wife and i published a paper on the

domestic isis threat. in the last 18 months, we have killed or we have arrested more than 95 people in america linked to isis. so the jihad is already here. it's not just in brussels, it's not just in paris or in the middle east, it is here. they have the capabilities and they have an estimated 6,000 westerners who have been recruited by isis, who have western passports, including american passports who can travel freely. we must take this threat much more seriously. >> and michael mccaul saying today there are open investigations, isis investigations in all 50 of the u.s. states. so we thank you for joining us tonight, dr. gorka. >> thank you. my pleasure. as you heard, u.s. investigators are looking into whether the terrorists in brussels were trying to kill as many americans as possible in those attacks. chief intelligence correspondent

catherine herridge has the latest information. >> reporter: sandra, based on the evidence so far in his classified briefings, the republican chairman of the house intelligence committee told reporters today he believes the terrorists in brussels were targeting americans. the bombs at the airport went off near the check-in desk for american and delta and detonated near the u.s. embassy stop. and the congressman said, it doesn't seem to be a coincidence. >> if it becomes true that american airlines and united and delta, that the explosive device went off there, when you couple that with the metro stop near the embassy was also targeted, those are two locations where a lot of americans can be killed. >> reporter: also today, the state department issuing a warning to americans traveling in europe. the terrorist groups are planning more attacks, possibly targeting sporting events, restaurants and transit systems, adding the threat is real and

may be imminent. >> the travel alert reflects our assessment that given current information, we believe that daesh, al qaeda, and other terrorist groups continue to plan near-term attacks throughout europe. >> reporter: the associated press is reporting tonight based on european intelligence sources isis has dispatched 400 fighters to europe. u.s. government officials aren't commenting on the number, but said between france, germany, and belgium, more than 600 citizens have traveled to syria and returned home. sandra? >> catherine, thank you. the attack in brussels reshaping the 2016 presidential race, as candidates speak out on issues like the surveillance of u.s. muslim communities. and waterboarding. plus, a new fox poll just out as the gop finds itself no clearer on who will be its 2016

nominee. dana perino and herman cain are here on what we can expect on the road ahead. and one group of catholic nuns can fighting against obamacare for the right to not aid in any employees getting contraception. one of the sisters inside the supreme court today is with us tonight in a kelly file exclusive. >> the faith of the little sisters is the faith of every sisters is the faith of every american.[engines revving] you can't have a hero, if you don't have a villain. the world needs villains [tires screeching] and villains need cars. ♪ these are the hands that build the machines, the machines that sort, stack and seal. these are the hands that keep private information private. these are the hands of pitney bowes, the craftsmen of commerce. these are the hands that dig for opportunity,

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we focus on individuals who are committing or about to commit a crime. we don't focus on a whole community. we don't focus on a whole religion. and if he's that shortsighted, i can understand why the american public will repudiate his efforts to lead this country, because he is undervaluing the values on which we base our security and safety and democra democracy. >> that was bill bratton reacting to ted cruz's suggestion that law enforcement should be patrolling muslim neighborhoods in the u.s. to prevent terror. but with terrorists suggesting that the islamic state has trained and sent 400 attackers to europe and with the state department issuing a travel alert for americans traveling to

and around europe, cruz is not backing down. trace gallagher is live in our west coast newsroom. good evening, trace. >> reporter: good evening. during his comments on the attacks in brussels, ted cruz listed a number of counterterror measures, including we need to empower law enforcement to patrol and secure muslim neighborhoods before they become radicalized. critics blasted the statement saying it amounts to a police state against muslims. president obama noted that cruz's own father fled exactly that kind of draconian policing in cuba. and hillary clinton said this. >> so when republican candidates like ted cruz call for treating american muslims like criminals, and for racially profiling predominantly muslim neighborhoods, it's wrong. it's counterproductive. it's dangerous. >> reporter: clinton went on to say everyone should feel together in the fight against

terrorism. ted cruz responded. watch. >> with all respect, people are fed up with the political correctness of barack obama and hillary clinton. >> reporter: and donald trump is siding with cruz saying he supports patrolling muslim neighborhoods. in fact, a president trump would take more expensive action. >> the waterboarding would be fine, and if they could expand the laws i would do a lot more. you have to get the information from these people. i am in the camp where you have to get the information and you have to get it rapidly. >> reporter: but even the former doj lawyer that wrote the memos that approved waterboarding during the george w. bush administration says what trump is suggesting is illegal. and he thinks trump is exaggerating. >> trace, thank you. joining me now to react, pete hegsath and carl higby, a

former navy s.e.a.l. and supporter of trump. carl, where do you stand on water boarding? >> i don't think it's that bad. we get that as part of our training. it's miserable, but it's not that bad. if we water boarded that guy we had in brussels, we might have stopped this attack. >> it's miserable but not that bad. but you actually say that waterboarding could have prevented these attacks in brussels. >> i can tell you not waterboarding didn't get us the information. so why not give it a shot. >> all right. where do you stand, pete? >> well, i don't have much of a problem with waterboarding if it's going to get us the intelligence we need in realtime. the problem is the incoherence of what donald trump talks

about. he says he wants to torture but his advisers say no, that's not what he means. he's not grounded in a real understanding of what his rhetoric means. therefore, he overcomplicates the situation. for the most part, carl and i agree. we would unleash war fighters, let them go and find the enemy and kill them. but his rhetoric is unhelpful. >> i think he's been real clear on that. >> pete's pamaking the argument that it's more the delivery of the message. >> he wants to bomb the crap out of isis and if the laws permit, he wants to do much more than waterboarding. >> so donald trump and ted cruz appear to agree on at least one thing. donald trump said late yesterday he agreed with ted cruz's proposal to target muslim neighborhoods, calling it a good idea. have we found common ground, carl? >> i think we have. this is the beginning of donald trump bringing the republican party together. i think the message is all getting on board. what's happening is people are

coming around. he's not targeting muslim neighborhoods, just maintain the level of police force in those neighborhoods. >> pete, based on your experience, would this work, muslim surveillance? >> well, it did work with the nypd before de blasio got rid of it. you're talking about engagement, surveillance and intelligence. it makes sense. i know 100% of muslims aren't terrorists but 100% of terrorists are muslims. they've got parts of cities where bombers are provided havens. it's just a preview of what america could become. so when donald trump and ted cruz talk about this, they're ripping back the curtain, the false choice that so many of our politicians give us, that we're forsaking our values if we

target the enemy. that's just wrong. we're at war right now and we should recognize it. >> pete, you look at any country in the world where muslims are the minority, they're screaming for rights. but where they're the majority, there are no minority rights. so why are we letting them defeat us at our own game. >> so based on both your experience in the military, which is significant, are we having the right conversation in this country about how to combat this? >> i think the way to combat this is we're going to have to go over and take the fight to them. the problem is our president with his limp wristed foreign policy has failed to define this enemy. >> carl, you've been very vocal of your support for donald trump and you say many of your peers in the military support them, as well. pete, who has the best plan that you have seen laid out by the presidential candidates to defeat isis? >> the guy who i felt like had the best plan was marco rubio, but he's not in the race

anymore. ted cruz has a coherent understanding of the enemy and he understands how to target the enemy. and isn't wildly vacillating to the extremes like trump does. we need to engage allies in so many different parts of the battle and i think ted cruz has a good sense of what it means to be commander in chief. but the debate needs to happen. >> thank you to you both. >> thank you. another ugly turn on the campaign trail. this time involving the wives of the men, one and two in the gop presidential race. that's next with that. plus, catholic nuns are fighting against the obamacare contraception mandate, in what some are calling the biggest religious freedom fight since hobby lobby.

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breaking tonight. senator ted cruz's wife is firing back over an ugly new campaign trail fight ensnaring the wives of the men at the top of the polls for gop nomination. it started with a controversial new ad featuring a nude milania trump. mr. trump blamed senators cruz for it, despite the fact that it did not come from the texas senator's campaign. the gop front-runner tweeting, lying ted cruz just used a picture of milania in his ad. be careful, lying ted, or i will spill the beans on your wife. trace ghas the latest on this. >> reporter:s t >> reporter:s the ad was introduced by an anti-trump super pac. ted cruz tweeted, pick of your

wife not from us. donald, if you attack heidi, you're more of a coward than i thought. trump doesn't believe cruz responding by saying that's why we call him lying ted. now that trump is threatening to spill the beans on heidi cruz, there's speculation what "the beans" might be. the cruzes have been accused of having a troubled marriage and pointed to a 2005 heavily redacted austin police report where an officer found heidi cruz next to an expressway and denied she might be a danger to herself. ted cruz advisers explained the incident, acknowledging that a decade ago, heidi cruz experienced a brief battle with depression, but got through it with prayer and the love and support of her family. today, heidi cruz deflected questions about the trump threat. listen. >> as i said, you probably know by now most of the things that

donald trump says have no base necessary reality. so we are not worried in the least, we're focusing on our campaign and we are going to continue to do that. >> reporter: heidi cruz is a senior executive at goldman sachs who is on leave to help her husband's campaign. the nude picture of trump's wife was taken for british "gq" in 2000. >> trace, thank you. joining us now, guy benson, and adriana cohen. adriana, is it ever appropriate on the campaign trail to go of a family member, first question? aside from whether or not ted cruz had anything to do with it, is family fair game? >> well, you know, i certainly don't like to see anybody's family get dragged through the mud. but if you go after donald trump and you attack his wife, he has every right to defend himself and he has a right to punch back. >> wait, hold on, hold on. based on that statement, i have

to get this in here. the super pac operator, run by a woman, a republican strategist, and she has issued a statement on this saying i know you're really upset about that ad, donald trump. but it would make america awesome, not ted cruz. she's denying ted cruz's involvement and thanks donald trump forgiving the ad so much attention. your response? >> i think she took a lot of heat from ted cruz, because now what mitt romney's former campaign person did is she effectively dragged heidi cruz in the mud. now donald trump, you know, is going to push back on ted cruz's wife, because he was provoked by this individual. so she probably got a phone call from ted cruz's people saying why did you do this? now you dragged my wife into this race. so she's trying to provide cover for ted cruz. we don't know if ted cruz knew about this coming or not.

>> let me go with that point. >> he benefited in utah. this ad launched to throw the delegates, the caucus to ted cruz in utah. so he certainly benefited from it. >> so guy, she's pointing out that some people are pointingt, not connected with the super pac, that he could still be behind the message. >> there's zero evidence of that. i think this particular episode may be a fresh low in the campaign that has been characterized by boarishness and pettiness because of donald trump's presence in it. it has showcased donald trump's signature ignorance, where he's blaming inaccurately ted cruz for an add, that by the way i won't defend at all, that was not connected to cruz. it was connected to this outside super pac that's been trolling donald trump for months. it's also underscored donald

trump's low rent temperament, where he takes his misplaced rage and directing it as another candidate's spouse through a threat. it's classless and stupid. >> when somebody goes after your wife, what is he supposed to do, just take it? >> no, i'm not saying that at all. >> what is he supposed to do? >> what i would like him to do is respond by defending his wife and to criticize the people who launched the attack, not to say oh, i'm going to assume this was launched by someone else -- >> should ted cruz have condemned the use of his wife in that ad? >> i believe that cruz should. i'm not defending the ad. i think milania trump and heidi cruz should be left out of it. but donald trump's knee jerk reaction is to blame the wrong person and threaten his wife. >> to be clear, i'll remind everybody when ted cruz's daughters were targeted by a cartoonist, every gop candidate came to his defense and said

kids are not fair game. >> agreed. >> and if ted cruz -- ted cruz should have denounced that ad up front. breaking tonight, the little sisters of the poor have been fighting obamacare for years. today they had their day in the highest court of the land. we have one of the sisters at the center of this fight here tonight. plus, more than 30 2016 primary contests are behind us, and the fight for the nomination continues. dana perino and herman ♪ in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state, the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and new infrastructure for a new generation attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in rochester, with world-class botox. and in buffalo, where medicine meets the future.

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trump splitting last night's utah and arizona contests respectively. more and more see the race for the delegates going to the final june primary contest or beyond. joining me now, co-host of "the five" and former white house press secretary under president george bush, dana perino. thanks for being here tonight. riall ght. so where are we in this race? this polling, it just keeps getting more interesting. >> i think so. for a long time the electoral race has been pretty much the same. i think this year the map is basically up ended. there a i think this poll, for ted cruz he doubled his approval. so did john kasich. trump gained five. so the republicans, as they have shed some of the candidates, the other ones are consolidating. but i would think both front-runners, trump and clinton, have some good news,

they're winning at the ballot box. she's basically putting away bernie sanders. trump has a little bit further to go if he wants to get to tt 1237 number. but they're also winning with another number. she at 64% and he had 65% with being untrustworthy. opinions have settled in. and people have strong opinions. this is not an election where people feel sort of okay. they're either for or against. they feel strongly or they're emotional about it. >> when asked if you would be scared if a candidate was elected president, 49% trump, 33% clinton. i'll remind you, those are the front-runners. so it's not a lot of making sense this time around. >> i think that's partly reflective of the fact that a lot of people in america are saying that we are just distrustful of politicians. not that they think donald trump is a politician, but they are

distrustful of washington as an institution. they are demoralized about government. and the other thing about the poll, while there's a little ways to go, 6 1/2 months until the general election, in head-to-head polls, kasich and cruz would beat clinton, donald trump right now 11 points behind. >> so why doesn't that help kasich more when people see that he has a better chance, according to the poll, of beating hillary clinton? >> it's a conundrum. but he's won in the southwest, he's won in the southeast, he won in the upper midwest. he won in new hampshire. he won in the -- came in second in iowa. so i think that in some ways the states are not actually reflecting the national news. but that's the way the primary works. >> do you see any change coming as far as leadership in the gop race or does donald trump

continue to lead? >> right now everybody needs a breather. we don't have another primary contest until april 5th, and that will be in wisconsin. that's a big one. one of the things that trump supporters would say he might be able to finally bring some of those rust belt states into the gop column. we're talking michigan, wisconsin, maybe down into ohio. there are people on the other side who say dana, what are we talking about? if you look at the head-to-head with hillary clinton, he's down 9, 10, 11 points. here's the good new it is you like politics and cable news. this race, no matter who it is, is going to be very tight all the way until november. >> dana, thank you. >> thank you. >> good to have you. as you just heard, donald trump polled the highest percentage of voters who would be "scared with his presence in the white house" at 49%, with hillary clinton next in line at 33%. leaving some serious questions about 2016's two front-runners. joining me now, former

republican presidential candidate herman cain. he's the author of "the right problems." do you see any problem here, herman? >> not really. first of all, remember that polls represent a trend. and i agree with dana, we have a long way to go. and the thing about the fact that these polls don't necessarily reflect the mood of the trump supporters, many of them aren't participating in the polls. here's what i believe are the two reasons why donald trump has the highest fear factor that you pointed out. first, remember a lot of people in the media, they spoon-feed the public with just negative perceptions of a particular candidate, whether that's donald trump or whether that's hillary clinton. a lot of it for hillary clinton is true, but they also spoon-feed a lot of negative impressions of donald trump. secondly, the democrats do a good job of dividing people by pandering to different groups, because the republicans started

out with 17 candidates and now it's down to three, most of the time what donald trump really stands for that would help everybody doesn't come through. so i believe that over the next several weeks, more and more of his message that will help everybody come through, and as a result, i believe that the fear factor will go down. >> okay. that being said, in this latest polling, scared was a common word that was used to describe trump. by those that were polled. but he continues to lead this race, herman, and -- >> yes. >> you and i have spoken before. and you sound like you support him. i haven't heard you come out and publicly announce that you're supporting him, but it sounds like you do. do you see the opportunity or the chance that you'll see the party rally around him? where are we with that? >> my position is that i try to set the record straight, and because donald trump has been in

the lead for most of this whole primary election, there have been more opportunities for people to take potshots at him. so i find myself trying to set the record straight, whoever it is. so as a result, it appears as if i'm more supportive of donald trump. i want people to know the truth. now, here's where i believe we are in this race. i believe that the people will decide if the establishment lets the people decide. i don't buy into the rhetoric that this is going to be a contested convention coming up for the republicans, and i don't buy into the rhetoric that donald trump can't get the 1237. he's 60% there. cruz is 38% there. kasich is way behind. but i think what's happening that the polls don't pick up is that as he goes from presidential primary to presidential primary, he is exceeding what is expected. so i believe that there's a good probability that he might clinch

the 1237 by the time the convention rolls around. >> and as dana just detailed, wisconsin will be another big test coming up for the candidates. herman cain, thank you for joining us tonight. >> you're welcome, sandra. breaking tonight, what are some calling one of christianity's greatest religious liberty fights in our country today. it's playing out right now in front of the supreme court. the sister inside the fight the sister inside the fight [engines revving] joins us you can't have a hero, if you don't have a villain. the world needs villains [tires screeching] and villains need cars. ♪

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breaking national correspondent an exclusive, what some are calling the biggest fight for religious liberty waged against obamacare to date. catholic group the little sisters of the an oral arguments heard today by the supreme court. they claim obamacare forces them to sign off on contraception against their faith. one of those sisters is here with us tonight. sister constance feet and mark rianzi representing the little sisters of the poor and part of the beckett fund for religious liberty and john garvey is here, president of the catholic

university of america. welcome to you all tonight. >> thank you. >> sister, first, thank you for all of your service. you've been caring for the elderly and the poor for 28 years now. >> yes. >> you took your argument to the supreme court today. how did it go? >> we felt it was a wonderful day. we felt that it went as well as we could hope for. and we are just very, very hopeful and, you know, feel very positive about the whole experience of the day. >> what -- what essentially was the court's response to your argument today? >> you know, i'm no legal expert but we did feel that the court heard our point that the government is trying to hijack our health care plan, to insert the services in violation of our faith. so that's really what i took away from it was that they were hearing that argument. >> mark, could you fill in the blanks there? sister constance sounds pleased with the response from the court today. what was it? did the government change their

tune at all? >> yeah, absolutely. it was both the response from the court and the response from the government. for years, the government argued that this coverage is separate from the sister's plan. it's independent. they have nothing to do wit. today they basically dropped that argument pretty quickly and made clear their interest is in making the coverage come with the sisters' plan and insisted only one plan, the sisters plan and they want to use it. that led to several of the justices saying essentially that you're hijacking the sisters' plan and justice kennedy and a great day for the sisters, did government gave up the argument that it has clung to for a few years and the truth really came out which is the government trying to use the sisters plan in a way totally unnecessary and the government can get people contraceptives without nuns. >> was today a small victory for the catholic church? >> well, we'll see who wins in the end but today was a -- it was a very good argument and we

were pleased at the attention the court gave to our concerns. >> sister constance, you have to bring us back for a second and obamacare brought into law, what was the response of the little sisters of the poor? i mean, this is a very -- at the same time a very emotional argument that you are making. >> well, you know, when obamacare first came into effect, i don't think that we had a response but it was when the hhs mandate was announced which i believe was a couple of years later, so we really -- it came out to our radar in 2012 and we were just very concerned, anxious about the impact on our ministry because the fines that we face add up to about $70 million a year. >> wow. >> across our 27 u.s. so it's frightening. >> i'm sorry, sister, bhu what would that -- that's a lot of money. what would that have done? >> well, it's an impossible amount of money. something we can't really even

fathom. so, you know, we knew that we had to take some action to prevent facing those fines. >> all right. and, mark, can you sum this up for us? where is this fight going? how do you see it ending up? >> well, i see it ending up with the government eventually having to come to its senses probably because the court tells them to but the idea that the government's going to fine the sisters $70 million and essentially take money away from their care for the elderly, poor over this is really a pretty crazy and pretty bad idea. >> right. >> ultimately, the government fought to have the health care exchanges to get insurance coverage and they can use the exchanges for anybody that wants the coverage. there's no need to say it's on the backs of the nuns and we think it ends in a good way and hopefully this june in a good way. >> john, mark, sister constance, thank you to all three. sister constance, w

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