>> we will see you back here in an hour with eric. >> "outnumbered" starts now. >> this is "outnumbered". here with us today, harris faulkner, sandra smith, hashtag one lucky guy earning his paycheck. senior writer for the weekly standard stephen hayes and you are "outnumbered". not too late a night for you. >> almost 2:00 in the morning. >> you are a wisconsin guy so this is exciting for you. >> this is my super bowl, and cheese all over the place.

and walk a shot. these are my people. >> it was a bad night for the front runners, ted cruz and bernie sanders scoring big victories in wisconsin's presidential primaries dashing any hope that donald trump and hillary clinton may have had in wrapping up the race anytime soon. ted cruz beating donald trump by 13 points, 48-45, entitling the texas senator to all the badger states 42 delegates. it is a turning point. >> god bless the great state of wisconsin. tonight is a turning point, a rallying cry, a call from the hard-working men and women of wisconsin to the people of america. we have a choice, a real choice. >> bernie sanders continuing his

winning streak telling a crowd of supporters that he has the momentum and a path to the nomination. >> with our victory tonight in wisconsin we have now seven out of eight of the last caucuses. and we have won almost all of them with overwhelming landslide numbers. >> in the meantime it was virtually radio silence from the losing front runners. hillary twining to sanders and you poured your heart into this campaign, forward, signed h. trump's response was not a bouquet of flowers or edible arrangements. in blistering words aimed at ted cruz and the party establishment

his campaign saying, quote, donald j trump lifted the onslaught of the establishment yet again. the governor of wisconsin, conservative talk radio show host and the entire party apparatus behind him. ted cruz is worse than a puppet, he is a trojan horse being used by the party bosses attempting to steal the nomination from donald trump. any truth to stephen hayes to what trump was alleging? is he a trojan horse? >> that is a ridiculous claim that he is stealing the nomination, you need 1237 delegates to get the nomination, donald trump doesn't have it, there's nothing to be stolen. what wisconsin did was discredit the argument from donald trump and supporters that this is a battle between trump on the one hand and the establishment on the other. it is preposterous in the extreme to suggest scott walker, who implemented these bold

conservative reforms in wisconsin had to fight the left for years for having done so, rallying the national republican party around him and the conservative movement that scott walker is supporting ted cruz, the most antiestablishment member of congress, somehow a manifestation of the establishment and puppet masters. it is a silly argument, i hope what will happen is people will understand the opposition to donald trump, there is a republican establishment, certainly many of those people oppose donald trump but most of the opposition comes from republicans toiling in the fields of republican electoral politics across the country, conservative movement types working for conservative policies, that is the real opposition to donald trump, not this binary choice. it is more complicated. >> how much do you think

attacking governor walker hurt trump? our one lucky guy yesterday, congressman duffy from wisconsin was on earlier today and he said that played a big role. >> trump was doing this in july, huge deficits, these reforms didn't work, and at the time it made sense because scott walker was in the race even though was not likely to resonate with wisconsin voters but when walker is out of the race, recycling the argument that wisconsin republicans have been hearing years from democrats in the state. the deficit is gone. trump doesn't know what he is talking about on that and to criticize a republican governor for refusing to raise taxes? >> that hung him up in wisconsin or was it that he came off of what he described as one of the worst weeks in his campaign? >> one of his biggest mistake, there were two week for wisconsin voters to scrutinize donald trump and had him to

himself. he took a lot of heat, a lot of difficult questions from conservative talk radio hosts and several of them asking different questions following up which trump hasn't gotten. >> i see some comparisons as we head into new york, that big-time gap, donald trump is cozier more than his hometown crowd of new yorkers. and these will continue to come. the poll that came out earlier showed 24% of women in wisconsin were supporting donald trump continues to be a challenge, in this particular state hillary clinton doesn't have that many supporters among that group of women but for him in particular it might put new york at play but he is up by 30 points, might put it more at play with ted cruz than it ever would have

been before wisconsin. >> he didn't see as much deterioration among women voters. given the focus on the things he has said the past couple weeks. this is friendlier territory in new york and i expect he will do quite well. there is talk that he could win all 95 delegates. liz: is that a loss for donald trump if he doesn't get a huge win? >> if you look at people who follow the delegate counts, expect him to get nearly all, 95 delegates. >> doing well in my home state of pennsylvania. >> a calm look at delegate application process to unbound, he is doing well there as well. >> mentioning the exit polls, he did not he wrote much in wisconsin. another fascinating exit poll, if there is no gop majority,

what should the gop do? looks like it came out nominate the candidate with the most votes at 55%, delegates at 43. majority of folks in wisconsin think whoever got the most votes to get the nomination. it looks like last night, it will go to a brokered convention and won't be as clear as trump wanted it. >> ted cruz said this is a turning point in the campaign. i don't think it is a turning point, ted cruz has a tough road ahead of him, not like he will march forward and win every primary we have left, he will do better than he has done in the past and the brakes have been tapped. we are slowing down and more likely to go, and this requires the trump campaign and the john kasich campaign which marco rubio has more delegates today than john kasich does, but it requires another level of campaign style.

they have to talk to the delegates, see what they are thinking, whether they want to bow to the candidates, and another round of strategy the campaigns have to go through and it will be which campaign is better at it. >> you can say the odds are raised and there is a contested convention, what does that look like? >> just as a reporter that is fantastic. it did get much harder for trump, he is 46% of the delegates depending on how you count, and the campaign having some additional trouble, and people are making very complicated, and the requisite number of delegates, i am not a

trump guy, he is the nominee. and try to take it away from him. and every right to fight him, and people are wondering about, if one of these men does not get the nomination, how does the party unite? trump supporters and ted cruz supporters, what does the party do at this point? >> you are looking at a party that is badly fractured and to be badly fractured for a long time going forward. i don't buy a lot of the speculation that there will be some white knight coming in, who is not running to shoot it in. i suppose it is technically

possible to get the majority, talking about something down the line on the 10-12 ballot, i don't think he wants to do it, there is no push for him to do it. i think i would know if this were happening. maybe i am not a good reporter as i think i am. i don't always do well. >> can you imagine the destruction of the republican party? not realistic. donald trump revealing how he will force mexico to pay for the border wall he keeps talking about if he becomes president. can his plan work or will it cause him trouble? another big win for bernie sanders giving him the momentum he says will take him all the way to the convention. how big is that for hillary clinton? and whether limping to the primaries will hurt her in the general? right after the show catch more on the web. join us for "outnumbered" over time. today is your day, log in to

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>> hillary clinton does not like to hear big night for bernie sanders, he won wisconsin with 57% of the vote, his team is laying the groundwork for a contested convention this summer. the vermont senator won seven of the past eight contest though he is still trailing hillary clinton in the delegate count, superdelegates -- women have supported clinton in nearly every state so far, fox news exit polling showing sanders finished just ahead of clinton with women in wisconsin and got a strong showing from democrats overall, split 50/50 in the badger state. this is interesting for a number of reasons, no one thought he would lose but to win big means what for bernie sanders? >> another big win for bernie sanders and he is building momentum. you have to caveat a little bit because wisconsin is a very liberal state with a history, my favorite exit poll results from last night of all of the money

decide was seven in ten wisconsin democrats who voted last night thought bernie sanders's socialist views were either about right -- >> bernie sanders is too conservative. how do they exist? >> your people at the start of the show. >> they are not my people. >> what are they thinking? you can see it in the video. those long lines wrapping around -- >> a lot were probably student at the university of wisconsin who may or may not -- >> promised free education? >> marijuana before they voted, hit the brewery, to think bernie sanders is too conservative. the state sets up well for bernie sanders but bad for hillary clinton. the fact that she can't put him away now, they have to be pulling their hair out. >> not just that she can't put them away but how they stack up against what could be the

nominee on the other side of the aisle. isn't it mind-boggling that we can see two contested conventions? bernie says he is not going anywhere. let's pop up that polling to get your answer to it. who would best beat donald trump should he be the republican nominee? clinton 54, sanders 43, what do you make of that? >> i am not so sure of that. based on the numbers out of wisconsin last night, her ability to reach beyond the democratic base is in serious question. we hear this talk about how ted cruz can't win a general against hillary and donald trump won't be able to do it. i am not sure hillary is appealing outside the democratic base. look at these numbers, he beat her, bernie sanders, with young people, 80%-18. he really crushed her with independents, the critical voting block that determines the election, 40% of independents,

she did not do well outside the small base of her party which is the argument she makes against the republican candidates. both parties have their problems. >> if you look at the new model for running a presidential election from president obama in 2012, wasn't so much to get the independents but to rally the base, the democratic party, he does that much better. >> as you look at these numbers i'm curious because you have moderated a couple of the debates and as we go toward a general election, what are some of the things you think you will have as stumbling blocks with bernie sanders? >> the economy is number one and he will always hear that from me. on the democratic side you can give hillary clinton and bernie sanders a lot of credit for always sticking to the economy as one of the top issues they are talking about. i love what someone said along the way, talking about your people in wisconsin. and an end of this we will know where the socialists live in

this country. >> it comes down to the superdelegates. you have the superdelegates there is no evidence they will be moving to clinton affairs. that is the big thing. until you see any weakness there. >> you look at why bernie sanders beat hillary clinton, whether it is young demographics or women, she lost married women to wisconsin, that is a huge red flag, her campaign was based on the fact that she is the first female president but when you look at why people don't trust her in the democrat base it comes down to dishonesty and when you look at the overall general election, the general electorate doesn't think of that either. first word that comes to mind is the term liar. >> hillary has to find single women above a certain age, call

that a niche. we will move on. donald trump suffering a major blow in wisconsin we have been talking about. his campaign is hoping to turn things around with a series of scheduled policy speeches. will it work or is the trump train losing steam? we will talk about it. new details on how trump plans to force mexico to pay for the border wall by threatening to cut off billions of dollars in payments by immigrants to their families back home. president obama says good luck with that. is it a good idea after all or will it lead to more problems? stay with us.

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the report quoting an inside source saying they are missing a lot of opportunities that are passing them by. trump may be a great quarterback but every cornerback needs a strong defensive line. i don't inc. trump knows what is happening on his campaign. everyone in astonishment what is going on, almost like they are sabotaging themselves. sabotaging themselves! that is fighting words. >> it is a tough critique of the trump campaign. i don't have great sources so i can't speak to whether it is true or not but others who have been friends with trump and generally supportive of his efforts like newt gingrich and bill bennett have said he is not reaching out to outside advisors, not taking counsel, not looking for input. when you have people who have been for the your tour your campaign raising these problems in a public way, it ought to be a wake-up call. >> you have been following his campaign closely. are you surprised he hasn't tapped more resources? >> i do understand there is

hesitancy to hire insiders. and the football analogy trump likes to play quarterback and wide receiver and tight end. and a number of touchdowns also through a major interception with that abortion question. as much as when the campaign becomes a story, it is not a good thing when reading about campaign shakeups. and and he is shedding staff for competitions have happened. and and he has to play that. >> and sticking to policy, stick

to the issues, if he does that and says he is going forward, will that help his campaign? >> his popularity so far has been non-scripted, off-the-cuff type rhetoric without a lot of substance and see the danger of bringing in what people perceive as being the outside but i tend to go with the idea that donald trump likes to listen to donald trump. when he talks about who he is advising on foreign-policy he says i have a very good brain and i'm trusting my instincts and that is alarming because you don't want a single person making these huge global decisions and it is also a matter of taking advice and as a leader, make sure you're making the best decisions based on advice from people who are experts in their field. no one can be an expert in everything including the president of the united states. it would be good for him to get some advice from people who have credentials without him acting like they are part of the establishment type academic

setting that they can't trust for some reason. >> that is an excellent point. there is an opportunity for donald trump to step up and do these policy speeches and get his surrogates to follow along. on america's newsroom with martha maccallum, his spokesperson katrina pearson, they got into a back and forth about stealing the election, stealing the primary process and what that means. if you are going to be speaking policy you need the backup of your team to point to those issues that are coming up and drive that positive narrative, leave the mudslide for when it has to happen, if it should have to happen and everyone has to get on the same page. it is splintered and difficult to follow. >> one of trump's policies getting much attention, has been for months, he started his campaign, the border wall that he wantss mexico to pay for. he is revealing for the first

time how he will force the mexican government to pay for it. in a two page memo given to the washington post he says mexico will have to make a 1-time payment between $5 billion to $10 billion or he will cut off the cash flow immigrants send to their relatives back home. president obama was asked about that plan at yesterday's briefing, we carried it live on "outnumbered". >> the implications with respect to ending remittances many of which are from legal immigrants and individual sending money back to their families, are enormous. first of all they are impractical. we just talked about the difficulties of trying to force huge outflows of capital, the notion that we will track every western union bit of money being sent to mexico, good luck with that. >> what did you make of president obama's criticism of trump's plan? >> i am not totally sympathetic

to the president, he tracks certain groups in 2011-12 pretty effectively. i think this is a good move by trump but let's not pretend it doesn't coming with whisks. donald trump is not a policy wonk. the problem with policy speeches is he will be asked questions about his policies. he has to answer them in some detail. he hasn't shown much willingness to answer questions and get into the details. some of the time he has had the most problem on policy is when he is asked questions he just can't answer whether you are talking about the nuclear triad which he was asked about earlier, didn't take that in the debate or this most recent question on the debate this last weekend where he promised to eliminate $19 trillion of debt in eight years. it cannot happen. >> the numbers are difficult and the numbers are difficult when it comes to building this wall.

john oliver had a piece, a sobering look at the real costs involved in building that wall. listen. >> 35 foot tall wall which trump has said would need 1000 miles of. according to one economist that would cost $10 billion for the concrete panels and 5 to $6 billion in steel columns, plus another billion dollars for concrete columns and concrete foundation. that is at least $16 billion. that is another $2 billion to build roads so 21 trucks can deliver those materials and that is not even cutting into 30% for engineering design and management. we are up to $25 million, anywhere from 2 to 6 times trump's estimate. we are still not done. all of that is just building the wall. >> a couple key things. he goes on to say experts estimate the wall may exceed the

initial cost, and americans don't take well to brits telling them how to secure their own country. second of all the support for the border wall, it has gone down in the past six month as trump is talking about it by 18 points according to pew research, 2011-15 support was 46%, just in the past six month it has gone down by 18%. the fact is illegal immigrants unlike what the president said about legal immigrants, a whole lot of money back to mexico, using services across american taxpayers money in arizona, california, nevada and if americans want a wall they have to pay for it and they need congress that is willing to allocate the money to get it done. mexico won't do it, it will be impossible to enforce payments back and forth. >> this is the foundation of his

campaign. he launched the campaign on i am going to build a wall. the numbers are sobering. when asked about it he typically says that is what i am going to do and stick to it. >> obama's message was yes we can. now he is saying no we can't, good luck with that. that is the problem when you run against donald trump. he is saying yes we can even though he doesn't give specific details and the other side is coming from the negative route saying no we can't. people want to hear someone who has solutions. you brought up a good point. when reagan first lost he gave weekly radio addresses on policy issues which was away not only to educate himself but so he had a grasp of the material. i encourage them to do that, it may be too late but something he should consider, a series of policy speeches, he should have given a policy speech on his wall a long time ago to prove he does have a policy, back up his positions the way reagan did to show he is serious. whether it is too late i don't know but the paper he released is a good start.

>> he had a chance in a debate and we did not see that until the last couple debates because it was all getting those original 17 out of the race but he had an opportunity. one thing the debates forced him to do was study up on a week by week basis. he doesn't have that pressure. we will see how he does. >> an alarming the report, terrorists exploiting the migrant crisis allowing isis to infiltrate europe. what should be done? is the us facing similar dangers with the white house trying to bring more migrants here? a fake student visa scam being uncovered which allowed 1000 foreign nationals to stay in the us but the bogus school was part of a sting operation. more on that next. i'm terrible at golf.

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>> europe's migrant crisis shaking the european union to its core. in a year's time officials a 2 million middle eastern migrants

have flooded into nations in europe, some of this country struggling with the massive wave of violent crime as a result. in a devastating report europe's own border agency admitting the paris terror attacks show how dangerous the situation is and how vulnerable large western cities are. inactive reading, quote, the paris attacks clearly demonstrated regular migratory flows could be used by terrorists to enter the e.u.. with no thorough check or penalties in place for those making false declarations there is a risk some person representing a security threat to the e.u. may be taking advantage of the situation. i could do that for free and save a lot of money and pick up any paper. >> this is not something

developed recently. anyone with a brain if you are terrorist wanting to attacked western countries in europe. and it is not a complicated process and a screening process for refugees, if refugees or terrorists posing as refugees get into america with a more stringent process across oceans and continents to get here they will get into europe. >> a commonsense idea. >> how does the us not see this coming if the administration won't back off of its plan to continue to bring refugees here even though there seems to be a cease-fire in syria, the administration saying we are bringing these refugees here, don't care about what they have done in europe. >> it would be a huge concern like we have been seeing here, we are talking far fewer numbers

in the united states than in europe, can we learn something here? half 1 million refugees according to germany over the past 18 months just disappeared. you can only imagine what they are doing, disappeared, vanished into the black market. i don't know if the united states will take a cue from this. don't know. >> on the point about donald trump, bill o'reilly, what do you think trump should do to reach out to women? this issue dovetails into his positions on immigration, he has been very oppositional to muslim refugees coming to the us but also when you see what they have done 2 women in europe, the rapes, assaults, threatening women's right, you hear crickets from women's media, they don't want to touch this issue. should someone like trump bring this up? >> in a broader sense, this shouldn't surprise anyone. this has been happening for

years, terrorists hurting americans and allies in the west or dedicated 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to attacking us, however much your heartbreak for these refugees the terrorist groups that want to hit the united states or throughout europe, use whatever means they can to get in. that is what they are doing and if you look at the isis related arrests, plots thwarted in europe there is a map that plots this out and absolutely terrifying how many of them haven't resulted in large-scale attacks but plans that have been thwarted. >> to answer your question why do we have to wait for donald trump to do it? why aren't we already talking about it? why do we have to wait for a presidential candidate to bring it up? why is in the administration dealing with the? almost like there is a toxic lava flow of western guilt. does anyone want to stay we are exceptional?

countries in europe? it is okay to be concerned about this. it does not make you evil to stand up and protect your own citizens. we need to shed this idea that we are going to burn in effigy for wanting to care for ourselves. what happened in cologne, germany particularly with those women who were assaulted new year's eve week because it happened over a couple of nights, it is a reality. signs -- to tell radical muslim men what to do, don't touch them here, remember the cartoons they wanted in their papers, we have to talk about it like it is really happening. >> there are new concerns about gaps in the nation's security, federal agents arresting 21 people accused of conspiring to allow more than 1000 foreign nationals to stay in the us by having them enroll in a fake university in new jersey. the feds say the suspects worked as brokers to obtain fraudulent

student visas and applicants knew that it was bogus. they didn't know it was set up by homeland security is a sting operation. >> they paid to brokers and recruiters like the defendants in these matters to be enrolled in school for the sole purpose of obtaining immigration status but with no intention of or interest in going to class or making any progress toward an academic degree. >> this is a crazy story. i saw this when i woke up this morning. this is a big one. >> most came from china and india but it is all clear that this could be exploited by any number of people for other reasons beyond economic reason certainly with respect to terrorism. there is a whole category of special-interest aliens who have penetrated the united states over the years and have come with the goal of attacking the united states. there haven't been many congressional hearings about it but it is a persistent problem that needs to be addressed, this

is something the obama administration should be looking at rather than feel-good arguments about refugees. my heart breaks, do whatever you can to help them. but we can't be naïve about the threats presented. >> it is based on a feeling of guilt, we have so much, why not share with everybody? that is not what we are saying. share whatever you want to share. >> they act like bringing refugees into europe is what the refugees want. christian refugees want to stay in syria where their families have been for centuries, their history, christian heritage, that is where they want to stay but in terms of the issue we are having here, the state department admitted in december that they don't know where a number of visa holders that were expired connected to terrorism our. they know they are connected to terrorism, they have an expired visa and they can't track them,

they don't know where they are, on top of thousands of expired student visas every single year lost, they don't know where they are. it is a bigger issue, great that they did this but a bigger issue than setting up sting operations and catching a few people. what about thousands of students who come here on visas and overstay them. >> a huge story. we will keep watching for you. meanwhile for more than two centuries the navy has been using the title -- we are going to talk about this after we brought this story back but they are grappling with changing the term to a more gender-neutral name. is that the right move on more political correctness run amok? you will never guess what they want to change it to.

>> the navy is stumped on how to make one of its job titles more phasor neutral. it is phasing out terms like rifleman, mine man, assault man, changing them to more gender-neutral terms like technician, specialist, professional. that could apply to anybody. i am a professional. the term yeomen, a sailor who works in clerical or administrative positions, the

navy secretary said the title should be changed to represent the many women who are taking on that role. getting some heat over all this, but told the new york times i think you are to have a military that reflects the country it protects and if we get too separate that is a bad thing. gender and who you love becomes irrelevant. interesting. what do you think he is trying to communicate. >> i praise him for these changes and he has not gone far enough. think about yeomen, what about naval petty officer, how will someone feel if you are told your job is petty? >> what is he doing? >> petty means small. this is so ridiculous. it is like we are not at war.

we are at war. our yeomen or yeowomen are doing things that don't involve worrying about your title. if you are not worried about your title you are not worried about the main thing, the secretary of the navy should be worried about what the seals are doing to bring down terrorists in the middle east, this is a waste of time and every time he opens his mouth. >> this is not the first time women have held these positions, not like we have our first person as a secretary of the navy so i wonder what is driving this. >> into the quiet move by the navy to have women move into positions within the navy seals, something the administration wants to do. you saw women move into the army ranger position, and by end of the year they will have their goal. this agenda of political

correctness was handed to him by president obama and it is a question of priorities. time -- you are absolutely right. our us sailors surrendered and left their weapons in obvious position of weapons dominance to ear and. who gave that stand down order? the u.s. navy should be worried not about their weapons plan, making sure the seals and other officers, making sure they have organic -- the ieds are green, it is so absurd what they are doing. >> this is the first time. absolutely an abomination. >> we had this conversation about midshipmen, they had the same thing. our resident naval academy graduate said you know how proud i was turned that title? knowing it is history, i think the same thing stand here. >> it is confusing to me, the job doesn't change.

as long as they don't change the job it shoul pushback from memb of the military who don't feel women should become sealed and up the ladder and so on and so forth but in terms of where we are historically, we don't change the names of other things when women or others become -- still whatever you are, i am being facetious here. just an anchor. >> start making an issue. and the interview they did, they talked about getting the job done, a team member, getting the job done, and the issue of gender, forcing it down the throats of everyone making it an issue in a time of war.

>> we found out from the new isis video they want to hunt any followers of the cross, turn it into a holy war for themselves. that is another thing in the military. more "outnumbered" in just a moment. stay close. ogo is o a little pointy. so you evolve. you simplify. you haven't changed. you still help people live their best lives. and finally your new logo is ready, and you decide the perfect time to show the world is right... now. twell what if i told you that peanuts can work for you? that's right. i'm talking full time delivery of 7 grams of protein and 6 essential nutrients. ever see a peanut take a day off? i don't think so. harness the hardworking power of the peanut. and i'm still struggling with my diabetes. i do my best to manage. but it's hard to keep up with it. your body and your diabetes change over time. your treatment plan may too. know your options. once-daily toujeo®

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you were a wisconsin fan, tales from dc. >> i lived there. i am not from their. >> we are glad you were here today, good to see you, see you back here for "outnumbered" tomorrow at noon eastern, "outnumbered" over time on the web, foxnews.com/"outnumbered," and now "happening now". the empire state delegates. this is "happening now". the judge ordering questions with millions of dollars on the line. and a close call, a