way. >> wow. we'll be traveling here. scott? >> look in the wallet, cash is 2015, visa, charge it up. >> visa. interesting. >> everywhere you want to be. i think. >> i hope my wife's not watching. >> and here. >> we continue now with david asman on thee place for business, fox. everything else is just -- . after big wins this week ahead of indiana's primary, next week the donald and hillary clinton saying they are the party's nominee. not one big republican donor would say which party would fight big government the best. listen. >> as far as the growth of government, increase in spending on restrictive regulations, it was two and a half times under bush that it was under clinton. >> it it possible another clinton could be better than another republican. >> it's possible. >> next time around. >> it's possible. >> wow. hi, everybody, i'm david asman,

welcome to forbes on fox. who shrinks the role of government more? let's go in focus with steve forbes, carl, sabrina, bill, and bruce jackson. mike, is it possible that a democrat would shrink government more than a republican? >> certainly not hillary clinton, david. trump would shrink government much more than hillary would. as a businessman, trump knows how erroneous taxes are. hillary clinton has never been in private business her entire adult life, but lived off the public trough. she's clueless. >> bruce, what trump does know is big government pushing out private sector of a lot of things. we saw the gdp figures, pathetic figures this week, .5%, almost a recession. >> well, what i do know, i'm, charles coch is like me in the fact he's taking a look at trump's website and said how big

policy positions are, not written in crayon, and let's face it, trump's policies are so vague -- >> with the exception of the tax policies are clear. >> okay. let's take that tax policy. it would blow a hole in the deficit, and if hillary is like her husband, she's a deficit hawk, and trump's not touching social security or medicare. >> steve, first of all, they said the same about reagan, by the way, his tax policies were wrong, but led to a huge boom. in terms of spending, that's right, spending under bush was way more than the spending under president clinton. steve? >> there's no question of it, david, which is one reason we have the mess we have today. made possible for the rise of barak obama and weakening of the u.s. dollar giving us the crisis of 2008. hillary clinton now is trying to be right now the bernie sanders

mini me, but can she morph into the bill clinton mini me. because she's an accomplished chameleon, she might do it, and trump has to spell out more not just on taxes, but regulation and what he wants to do on trade. he's been over on that one, and he has to spell is out so there's reassurance to do what george w. did not. >> another thing coch talked about we heard about was regulations saying regulation reform was better under clinton than gw bush. i find it hard to believe. this is a cost of regulations, i believe, $4 trillion, that's huge. i find it difficult to believe that a guy who is in business very sensitive to a lot of regulations wouldn't actually try to cult regulations more than a woman who never really has known the private sector. >> well, david, a challenge for trump is we don't know exactly what he would do, should he make

it to the white house. what we know is what hillary clinton would do, and she has an absolute disregard for instead of the growth of the progressive state and for regulations, we know she was the mouthpiece for the obama administration on many failed energy and environmental policies wrapped up in terrible regulations and would raise the minimum wage arbitrarily, try to pass a massive paid leave program, a horrible regulation strangling jobs and dampen economic growth. we know she would be bad for regulation and growth. >> bill, don't you think a guy dealing with how many regulations does a building guy have to deal with? thousands and thousands, would be more sensitive to cut down regulations in the country? >> let me tell you what the trump campaign motto is, make government big again, hire 1 million policeman to chase out immigrants he doesn't like, and when through with the world trade war, he queue drupeles the

size of the unemployment offices. >> there is the issue of trade where trump has issues where a lot of people in business say, by god, even donald trump doesn't believe or practice what he's preaching as far as that goes. >> yeah, look, both clinton and trump are meddlers by their nation. they're authoritarian by their personalities. trump told apple he wants what kind of privacy software they could put in their phones. he told ford the only auto company that did not take a bailout where they will manufacture. you know, i don't see this libertarian spirit in trump whatsoever. >> make mike, he talks about apple and forcing them to come back and manufacture in the u.s., doubling the price of an iphone so there's a popular revet against it. that's one of those throw out positions i don't believe. do you believe he's going to follow through on that and try to strong arm apple back to the

united states? >> what i think happens before that, david, is by lowering the corporate tax rate, companies will stay in the united states and trump is a big proponent of lowering u.s. corporate tax rates, and he's not going to have that problem if companies leaving like they are under obama because capital will want to stay in the united states. >> bruce, what about the idea of hillary clinton's gaming with bernie on the campaign trail, going further left as far as spending is concerned, how do you battle away from that? isn't she in a corner. >> i think what she's done in this regard is said that she would be more incremental, so let's just take obamacare -- [ laughter ] >> no, she would. >> that was steve scoffing. but go ahead. >> okay. take up obamacare. we know that aside from the people who don't like they have to buy the care, whatever, there's medicare reforms in that with reduced possible readmissions and reduced medicare spending.

trump says he doesn't want to touch medicare or social security and talks about a universal approach so hillary clinton in that respect reduces the size of government. >> but, steve, how does she wiggle out of this one upmanship she did with bernie? >> she has to turn herself into hew deny to pull it off because she's spent the time trying to be semisocialist, and now to back it both? good luck. >> you don't believe, do you, she's more like bill than bernie because a lot of people stay her true colors come out in this primary race where she seems to be a lot more like bernie than bill was. >> oh, absolutely. anyone who is around the 1990s wht original health care debate went on, she was the driver. >> that's right. >> of the single payer health care system.

she would double down on it, expand labor regulations, not tackle entitlement programs and double down on energy and environmental regulations and would be a disaster. >> bill, she was always focused on this relationship between government. she was a lawyer for snl that went bankrupt costing hundreds of billions of dollars to the taxpayer and said she department work for them, but they had the billing records. it's uniquely tied into taxpayer support. >> i'm not in love with hillary clinton either but i think those trump fans are delusional to think that trump is going to cult your taxes, he's a lover -- not touching entitlements. not going to happen. >> mike? >> i think anyone who thinks

hillary clinton who is pan doring to everyone who wants entitlement is going to cut the size of government more than trump is delusional. >> okay. that's the last word on that subject. up next, new criminal justice reforms could be coming soon. some here say it could make a crime surge in the economy sink further. they'll explain. you decide next. when they actually did start saving. this gap between when we should start saving and when we actually do is one of the reasons why too many of us aren't prepared for retirement. just start as early as you can. it's going to pay off in the future. if we all start saving a little more today, we'll all be better prepared tomorrow. prudential. bring your challenges. what would help is simply being able to recognize a fair price. truecar has pricing data on every make and model, so all you have to do is search for the car you want, there it is. now you're an expert in less than a minute. this is truecar.

>> live from washington, good morning to you. the pentagon is extending deployment of an aircraft carrier in the persian gulf. the uss harry truman is remaining in the strategic waters for another 30 days to continue the strike mission against the islamic state. according to the u.s. navy, planes from the carrier dropped over 1,000 precision guided bombs on isis since arriving in the gulf late last year. >> and there's more news involving another u.s. aircraft carrier, china is refusing

permission for the uss to visit hong kong saying the request was denied despite a long track record of visits to the port city. analysts say the move reflecting growing tension between the washington and beijing over the building projects in the south china sea. now back to "forbes on fox." republicans joining democrats in a major bill to overturn some tough crime laws put in place about 20 years ago, but have come down significantly since then. some say why reverse policies that seem to be working. steve, look how much crime has gone down since the 1990s. 45%, huge drop, thousands people alive because of the crime laws, a enthen we have the reversal of a trend. violent crime up from 75 to 95, but after the new crime rules came in, down 47%.

do we want to change that? >> fun to tweak these things, but a david, looking at the prisoner population is how many seemingly nonviolent criminals got there because of a plea bargain, take a plea to a lesser crime to avoid trial. >> great point. >> there's a lot of that in there. the other thing is we have a federal system, states like new jersey have been having successful experiments in taking nonviolent criminals, getting them back in mainstream. see what works on the state level rather than a one size fits all on the national level. >> yes. that's the first point steve made, which is important. a lot of people, support the crime law saying there's innocent people or nonviolent offenders in prison. in fact, a lot were violent oveners who pled down. >> yeah. that's a very solid point. i think steve is right that this is a very nuanced discussion. we have so much more power with,

you know, from dna to advanced analytics to new programs, and he's right. we should experiment because i think it's tragic. let's not forget that, you know, lives are ruined. people can't get jobs. families are torn apart. we have too many nonviolent people in prison. >> and it goes totally against the broken windows theory which started in new york, by the way. we were the pea tree dish for that that says if you forgive minor crimes, you end up with bigger crimes along the way. >> well, david, look how successful broken windows was in new york. what i don't like about this legislation, early version of the bill, is someone who commits a violent crime with a gun, they have a reduced sentence 25 to 15 years even as a repeat offender. >> look at the murder rate in new york city itself. in 1990, there were 2262 murders a year.

now 352. it's extraordinary. this has created often economic rebirth of new york. >> david, we can get the murder rate down without something something as foolish and as rigid as a mandatory minimum set by a legislature. example, there was a guy with a 15-year minimum federal sentence for doing nothing other than having shells in a drawer. he did not own a gun. this is 20 years after a felony conviction which disqualified him from owning a gun. absurd. >> you know how the pendulums move in political policy. we go too far to the left in the 60s, and then over to the right, and now i think we're in danger of going too far to the left again. >> steve was right, encourage the state level. i think there's a lot of room for some healthy change here. there's a lot of overlap of what conservatives and progressives believe in the issue. everybody believes we need more

rehabilitation before people reenter society, and they support minimum sentencing. there's rape, sexual abuse against children, murder, gang crimes, so i think that there is some wiggle room here, but i would also stand with steve saying we have to start this at the state level. >> on the other hand, bruce, when you're talking about the economic results of this, of course, we had often economic rebirth in new york. a lot of cities did. you think about how the little crimes, when the little crimes add up, one of the first things to suffer are businesses. they are the one that is close down, that move to the suburbs or whatever. >> well, i guess what i like about this when we talked about, you know, people want to know what the local states think or whatever, but the local district attorneys have said that they like this because it keeps the lower level offenders, giving them a chance of redemption. i'm not caring so much about what washington says on this but the people trying to implement it and seem to like it. >> steve, the problem is very

often if you let lower crimes get out of hand, they turn into the bigger crimes. the new york city murders was 2262 in 1990. think of all the thousands of lives, steve, that have been saved over want years. it's about 20,000 lives a year -- every ten years saved as a result of the crime measures. i -- you can't put a value on that. >> no, and that's why you got to make sure you don't swing too far in another direction. it's one thing to tweak sentencings and the like based on experience, but another thing to bend the broken windows theory, and the danger is war on police seen in baltimore and chicago and else where and what it's done to crime. devastating. >> great point. all for this segment. the cashing in gang ready to roll, and eric, what do you have? >> hey, david, pay up or pay the price. donald trump saying allies need to pay their fair share in defense or they'll have to start defending themselves. plus, target facing boycotts over the store's transgender

bathroom policy. could the decision flush their business down the drain? cashing in, see you. >> glad you said drain. thank you very much. first, forget apple. reporting its first decline in revenue since 2003. something else it's reporting caught our eye. it could show the next president how to get our entire economy growing again. ♪

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drop for the first time ever, and quarterly revenue for the first time in 13 years, but apple's cash on hand hitting a record high of $233 billion cash, almost all of it over seas, and it is not alone. u.s. countries now have more than $2 trillion parked abroad. steve, is this proof we have to cut taxes at home to bring all of that money back home? >> yes, david. we have a double whammy from if, not only bringing money back home by getting rid of the stupid tax code, but you remove barriers to investing here at home. there's business investments that are not good. it's shrinking. so we got to have that tax reform, and you'll see we'll get money coming in and domestic money put to work. >> bruce, $2.3 trillion abroad. if that came back, that could be a heck of a boost to the economy. >> well, certainly it could, but one of the things that the candidates are talking about is the repatriation plans or a tax

holiday. they tried that with the jobs creation act signed into law by bush and it did not happen or create jobs from what i related. the shareholders got it, that's good, but it did not create jobs. >> at least, bill, there was one candidate, now a trump supporter, but dr. ben carson suggested that tax holiday, a six month tax holiday, zero taxes on all the money you bring back. if that money came back, if only half came back, that's $1 trillion. >> i'm all in favor of cutting corporate taxes, but it's delusional to think that that tax change would create a plot of investment capital. it's just going to end the charade about where apple is locating its cash. it doesn't create anything. >> is it worth a shot? >> absolutely, david. look, when our tax rate here is 39% and ireland is 12%, it's a no-brainer why companies go abroad. perhaps the bigger solution, though, is lowering the tax rate

for individuals, families, for corporations so we can all apply our resources where they are best fit. >> yeah. and 10-15% tax rate would be half of what we have now, rich. much less than half, actually. >> yeah. and, you know, steve makes a really great point here that this is a two-part thing. you get the cash back, but you want the cash invested to create future companies and future jobs, and that's why you have to lower the overall tax rate, lower regulations, all of that kind of stuff that we know goes into creating a vibrant economy. >> mike, there's a lot of people worried, and we talked about it here. people are worried about whether trump uses the carrot or stick if president. concerned he would strong arm companies to bring cash back, whatever, isn't the carrot just lowering tax rates, not forcing, just incentivize them to come back. >> that's right, david. trump understands fully that the

corporate tax rate should be 0. it's a a pass through tax. cost burden goes on to workers. to lower the rate as much as possible, sorry, bill, you think i'm delusional, but you will actually get a stronger economy, and companies want to stay in the united states. >> okay. we got to go, but we sure need something. this is worth a try. coming up, nearly two in three americans enjoy saving money more than spending it, but our informers have the picks you might not mind splurging on to boost savings a little more later.

we're back with the picks you're going to want to splurge on. mike, you short the market? >> that's right, dave. the investment goes up when the market is down. >> he owns a lot of stock in the

401k. st. joe, lots on dry land. >> what do you think? >> i like it. land portfolios are undervalued. >> dry land, folks, please. that's all for forbes on fox. thank you for watching. keep it here, the number one business block continues with "cashing in." >>. >> our allies are not paying their fair share. in nato, for instance, only 4 of 28 other member countries besides america spend minimum required 2% of gdp on defense. the countries we are defending must pay for the cost of this defense. if not, the u.s. must be prepared to let these countries defend themselves. >> so pay your fair share or you're on your own. donald trump warning other nations they'll have to pitch in more money or fight their own battle if he becomes president.