>> charlie on fund raising issues. a billionaire who might not have enough money in his own wallet for the race. the question is, who does. pony up, like now. hello, i'm kimberly gull file with dana perino. this is "the five." a first in the 2016 presidential race. donald trump has overtaken hillary clinton in an average national poll. real clear politics shows him ahead of clinton with 43.4% and she's ott 43.2. they heavily favored clinton. her lead slipping since trump became the nominee. she says pay no attention to the polls. >> polls this far out mean nothing. they certainly mean nothing to

me. i think, if people go back and look, they mean nothing in terms of analyzing the fall. >> we are not going let, at least my campaign is not going to let donald trump try to normalize himself in this period. i do not want americans and, you know, good thinking republicans as well as democrats and independents to start to believe that this is a normal candidacy. it isn't. >> trump says his numbers are only going to keep going up. here is why. >> she's ineffective. bernie sanders said she's not qualified to be president and he meant it. he said it because, you know, frankly, with her decisions, look at libya, look at offshoots of libya, benghazi, et cetera, so many things. we could go on for days. bad judgment. she suffers from bad judgment. that's sanders telling it.

he has been rather nice to her. he didn't pick up ton e-mails, which is a big mistake. i'm going to pick up big league. frankly, she shouldn't be allowed to run for president. >> fighting words. rbi. >> me? >> yeah, i want to go over the numbers with you. >> should we do that? >> yeah. we have been following closely. >> first poll in the middle of june. everyone says the establishment, he can't get out of the basement, never give anyone a run for his money. well, he can't get 30%, then 40% was the ceiling. the republican nominee cant break 50%, how could he be the nominee. he'll never be the nominee. he took out 50% and became the presumtive nominee. head-to-head, he's getting crushed by hillary, 15 points. that was the debate for a while. as the earlier polls rolled off

the real clear average, the ones where she was leading by a lot, the older ones where she was leading became, they left and the newer ones where he came closer to a point where this week, for the first time, donald trump leads hillary in the average. not an outlier, in the average. as he goes, he gets stronger. for some reason, the never trump crowd never believes it. >> these are all still within statistical margin of error, right, juan? hey, he's getting the bump. it's expected when you are the presumtive nominee, gop or democrat. what do you have to defend this ride? >> i don't have to defend it, it's real. look at the pattern, trump has been picking up momentum. i don't think it's one poll. we had two major polls over the weekend. nbc/washington journal, and abc

one has trump in the lead and the other has clinton in the lead. what we are seeing is in this phase of the 2016 cycle is republicans consolidating around donald trump. he is plus 14 in terms of republican support in the last month. that's where this is coming from. >> that's a big number. >> what we are seeing is that the republican base, much of it in opposition to donald trump in terms of their vote, more than 70%, he's the nominee, i'm going to get on board. people like mitt romney, not on board, complaining about taxes. hey, this is a guy that flip-flops paul ryan and the rest. most republicans say, he's the nominee, i'm a republican, i'm on board. >> do you think it is surprising at all, does it stand out to you that he's been able to get in this margin of error? in the beginning the numbers -- >> the rate is impressive,

certainly. for a long time, i remember last summer, talking about hillary clinton, who would have 43% of the country that will vote for her, no matter wut and 43% of the country that will never vote for her, no matter what. ? this election, the republican nominee, behind a terrible or interesting primary process. that consolidated. now you can see republicans saying, i thought holloman jenkins had one of his best colum columns. if you are not persuaded yet, he made a good business case. i encourage you to look at that if you are on the fence. 14% of the country up for grabs. she's going to get better on the trail. she continues to lose primaries. i think her point about not allowing donald trump to look like a normal candidate, that's what she was saying on "meet the press," that's actually the appeal. they don't want a normal

candidate. she's searching for langer, she rolled out a line, stronger together. it doesn't take a genius to come up with that. she's trying to figure out a way to unify the party to keep the numbers even. the risk, until it's california primary, if she doesn't put bernie sanders away, donald trump will pull ahead until she can unite the party. >> donald trump was able to take out, i mean 16 heavyweight champions in terms of guys and carley, with considerable experience, a lot of support behind them and money. hillary is faltering, trying to knock out the venezuelan socialism opponent. >> i agree. this is not a normal candidacy. i just saw her say that on video. this is not a normal candidacy. trump can use that. that could be his campaign

slogan. yes, i think going forward, it ee 's normal enough. he could have run a third party candidate in the beginning. he's not normal enough. he went for the republican nomination. now it is a normal candidacy. once he gets the nomination, he is the republican nominee. it's just normal enough to beat hillary clinton. i'm not surprised with the numbers. the republicans, you said it, the republicans were on the fence, they joined up. he gained six to eight points there. now, the interesting thing is working on blacks and hispanics. i'm interested to see what he's going to do. >> the nra coming out strong. >> and the nra. i think we have a soundbyte from trump on the second amendment, which is huge. he's playing that up. a couple things quickly, give me two seconds. >> yep. >> mitt romney had a very rough go in 2012, very rough go. if it's this simple for donald

trump to win the electoral college and win, it's this simple. ohio and florida. you have to get it. you snicker, but it shouldn't be that big of a thing to do. he polls well in ohio with the union. he has union support and may get democrat support in ohio. here is the big one, pennsylvania with hillary clinton's coal comment, pennsylvania could become in play. ohio, florida, all you need is pennsylvania or michigan and you win. it's not that tall of an order. >> can i respond? >> yeah. >> let me say, if you look at the electoral map, it is very hard. >> no, no, no, everything stays the same -- >> allow me to speak to your point. there's nothing wrong, eric, what you have to do is understand what tom was talking about, a growing number of latinos and black voters energized against trump. in addition, when you are

talking about flipping ohio or pennsylvania has h is, i mean, gone republican in years. you have to consider -- >> ohio and florida. >> it's too much. even if he wins those -- >> give it up, juan. >> can i finish the point? it is that hillary is looking at flipping arizona and georgia because there is such energy among the latino voters. >> thank you. on top of everything else, clinton and trump are squaring off over gun rights in america. take a look. >> hillary clinton wants to abolish the second amendment, just remember that. we are not talking about changing. she wants to abolish the second amendment. we are not going to let that happen, i can tell you that right now. we are going to preserve it, cherish it and take care of it, okay? >> he would overturn president obama's actions to strengthen background checks.

he said that also, on his first day in office, he'd mandate that every school in america allow guns in classrooms. every school, he said. if you want to imagine what trump's america will look like, picture more kids at risk of violence and bigotry. picture more anger and fear. >> or more children alive since someone is there to protect them. dana, what do you think? this is a strong argument. people are all in about second amendment or those that are concerned about gun violence as well in the country. >> a group that both of them have trouble with is independent women. she's always done not well with independent women as her opponent. trump doesn't do as well with independent women. they will claim it is getting better. if you look at 86% of people have made up their mind, they

are voting for her or against her and for or against trump. again, independent women make up a larger amount of the vote in the last several election cycles that might change next time around. men are energized. i think her messages, if trump can figure out a way to talk about what he's talking with guns in schools and at his hotels or wherever it might be, if he can talk about it in a way that makes your point, that people are safer, it's a harder argument to make than the one she is making. at the moment, she is persuas e persuasive. >> he's talking about having specific people armed in a school that would be trained and qualified so you would eliminate soft target in places like movie theaters, schools, that type of thing. >> the argument she was talking about, guns, is the same argument she uses on republicans, always. so, if she's saying this is not

a normal candidacy, she has to come with different arguments against trump. this is the same old stuff, not that impressive. >> let me give you a different argument. this is a guy who supported and assault weapons ban. this is a guy who supported longer waiting periods. it looks to me like you could say, hmm, i wonder if pands pandering to the gun vote. if i was a strong second amendment guy, i would say is he strong or saying it? >> should it go to hillary or no? >> no. that's a problem for him that he says, oh, hillary is going to take away your second amendment right. >> has hillary evolved on the crime bill? >> on the crime bill, yeah. >> she has, too. >> what are we talking about? >> the crime bill. >> yeah, she says now -- she didn't say that -- she said

trump was pandering because of where he was in the '90s is different than now. he's pandering, but hillary is not pandering about where she was on the crime bill? >> she didn't say the bill was a bad bill. black lives matter said it was a bad bill. bill clinton said hey, this bill saves black lives. are you crazy? >> she said she made a mistake by pushing the crime. >> talking about the punishment. >> is that a bill clinton voice impersonation you did? >> my voice was, yes, donald trump evolved or changed his tune on second amendment. hillary clinton did the exact same thing with the crime bill. one is bad -- >> it's okay for hillary to evolve and change her mind, not trump? depends on who you like. >> i don't think it's the same thing. >> we are over time. bernie sanders isn't happy about all the trump versus clinton talk. no, no, no. wait until you hear a word he

used to describe the two candidates, next on "the five."

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they had a long, long time to get to know hillary clinton. she cannot build a base that works. people don't believe her. that is getting worse, not better. she has real civil war.

i think the democrats will be in shambles by the end of summer. i think younger, reform oriented democrats either won't vote or will vote for trump. that poses a huge problem for hillary. >> former republican house speaker, newt gingrich predicting dire straits for the democratic part. >> i have 3 million more votes in the case of finger bomb in michelle f, it was neck in neck in votes. i have more pledged delegates. i am going to be the nominee. i want to spend a lot of my time, as you have seen me do, really taking on trump because i find what he says, the kind of candidacy he's presenting to pose a danger to our country. >> is that arrogant? senator sanders says she's getting ahead of herself.

>> she's jumping the gun a little bit here. we have 46% of the pledged delegates in order to get 50%, we have to do very, very very well in the remaining nine contests. i think we have a shot. we need a campaign, an election, coming up, which does not have two candidates or really very, very strongly dislike. i don't want to see the american people voting for the lesser of two evils. >> oh, my goodness. oh, my goodness. dana perino, our word smith, did he say hillary clinton is evil? >> i don't think so. he used a well known phrase that people use all the time. i don't think he meant to say she is evil. it's true, if you look at two very unfavorable -- two candidates with high unfavorable numbers. on economic issues, bernie sanders voters are disenchanted, upset, they are in disarray. i think donald trump could pick

them up on economic issues. they have to work hard on that. i believe and we have already seen president obama popular with millenials. they are 83 million strong. they are all voting age. he's going to campaign very heavily between now and november. he's champing at the bit to do so. i think that will be a way the democrats find a way to get the voters to her camp in november. >> kimberly, an interesting thing i saw on fox was eric trump, trump's son saying, oh, my gosh, this woman can't even beat the socialist. >> that's a great point. this is supposed to be a layout. superdelegates, debbie wasserman schultz saying let sanders run. this wasn't supposed to be a hard fought primary process. this was supposed to be building, keeping her well rested and well funded for the fight at the end. that's not the case.

she's still going it. ultimately, she's going to get it, great. she's still dealing with him on a daily basis. donald trump, the rest of them dropped out. he's in a better position. he's already nailed it down. he's going to be the nominee, he's the presumptive. that's what's happening. this is not where they wanted to expend their resources and have a fractured party like this. he has tremendous momentum, supporters and people who are not in love with hillary. when he goes out and says something, it says she is not a great candidate. >> eric, in fact, we have about, you know, 16 or so contests remaining. >> bernie said nine. >> nine? okay. he needs to win 64 -- wait a minute. you are supposed to give me reaction. >> bernie is going to be here for a long time.

we heard today he's going to have a big say in the democratic platform at the convention. that's fantastic. that's what he's trying to do, he wants a bigger voice in the democratic party. a long time ago, when trump started, i saw the number and the crowd. the guy could go on tv, the ratings would come. there's something behind it. i think he's going to be the nominee. everyone said you are crazy. it was a hunch, a feeling, a swell, an organic swell. he became the nominee. i said i'm not sure he can beat hillary. the more i see her and what's going on right now, i honestly think donald trump is going to beat hillary, given your numbers. >> what about the democratic party? >> look at her. the two of them as candidates right now. >> who? >> hillary. she looks worried and insecure. she looks like she's explaining herself. she's no bill clinton. she's no george w. bush.

she's no -- >> barack obama. >> she doesn't have that. donald trump has the likable things a republican or democrat that people like. >> is this about you trying to convince you or trying to convince me? >> from the beginning, i thought he was going to be the nominee. >> they are unfavorable numbers. >> i don't care about favoribility polls. look at the two of them. >> she's so unlikable, bernie is so lovable, so likable. the reason is he's next to hillary clinton. that would get -- she said this weekend, tom, bernie is so likable because nobody has run negative ads against him. >> that may be true. >> so, why doesn't she? she needs to sell herself and stop hiding in a safe cocoon and present herself as a strong, viable alternative.

speak to the independents and try to get votes. donald trump is accessible, available, all the time. if you ask, he comes on and does it. she needs to come on, do a fox news debate. come on, show and tell the american people why you should be the next commander in chief. very important. >> i think so, too. i think it would be big numbers, get her a big audience, a big platform. it's a winner for her. clearly, the audience would love it. as i said the other day, this is pay per view territory. who u.s. troops took out over the weekend. more coming up on "the five."

little miss muffet sat on eating her curds and whey. along came a burglar who broke into her home and ransacked the place making off with several valuable tuffets. fortunately geico had recently helped her with homeowners insurance. she got full replacement on her tuffets. the burglar was later captured when he was spotted with whey on his face. call geico and see how much you could save on homeowners insurance. last night on "60 minutes," president obama's adviser gave

an assessment of the accomplishments. >> look at what's happened in the last seven years, unemployment going from 10% down to 5%, the automobile industry and ending to wars. >> the wars haven't ended. we remain in combat in iraq and afghanistan. just this weekend, they took out the taliban leader in a drone strike in pakistan. earlier this month, president obama marked a major milestone. he's been at war longer than any other american president. kimberly -- >> yeah. >> the interview left the impression their work is done except isis in 2014 carried out 90 attacks in 21 countries outside of iraq and syria and killed 1400 people and injured 2,000 more. >> because isis isn't exactly giving back the varsity jersey, if you get my point. yeah, we have them. they are undefeated.

trying to take back fa lucia and other places. she makes a nice spokesperson on behalf of the president. i will give the president credit for taking out this head of the taliban. i will give him credit for that. when it comes down to it, he will authorize the kill, i give him credit for that. with isis, i'm very disappointed in terms of the fact they have been able to progress this far. she's not going to go on "60 minutes" and give them a c plus average. she's going to give them an a. >> great work for the spokesperson. one thing they say is a mission for them, they targeted and took out the largest al qaeda camp this last year. the problem is, there were no al qaeda training camps in afghanistan when they took over in 2009. the generational war against

radical islam continues, even if they want to say they put an end to them. >> i think we should meet the large combat forces. >> let's make the best possible case for what she was saying, which is that, remember, now we have 4,000 plus troops in iraq. we have 10,000 in afghanistan. when the president came in, he inherited 200,000 americans ton ground in those countries. it's a huge shift from 200,000 down to 15,000 today. to your point, there's no getting away from the idea the war continues. the drone strike over the weekend, the president's decision to send forces in to get involved in the syrian effort now. it's hard to say this president who promised to extract america from war. it looks like we are stuck, this

terrible situation in the middle east forever and ever. >> terrorists like to strike in a moment of instability. we have one coming up, in a transition from one president to the next, whoever it might be. and you have, as mark was describing in a "washington post" column today, al qaeda and isis fighting for the hearts of jihadis. what would cause them to win is an attack. >> that's interesting. i remember when president obama was in the transition into the white house. remember the piece in the new york times magazine, extensive about the transition. president obama wanted to put the past aside, all the infrastructure done under the bush administration and start fresh with the department. they realize the inauguration, there are threats against the president's life.

let's hold off and not pull the infrastructure. he was smart about the credit. it ended up leading to the bin laden kill, he pulled the trigger. very quickly point, in other words, during that transition period, hopefully the incoming president is smart enough to realize, let's keep things in place or step them up, if they have to. >> quickly, what i would call an apology tour, the president and hiroshima and vietnam as part of a legacy. >> hopefully, we can do a block on that. >> the nobel peace -- >> when? >> we can't do it? >> 30 seconds left. tom hasn't spoken. good point. >> i want to ask you a question, dana. >> oh, really? did you ask permission? very bold. >> look, in the bush administration, they talked about bush's brain and rove and

cheney. the idea was that george bush was a puppet and telling him what to do. when you look at the valerie jared interview, is there any question object who is run thag white house? it's valerie jared. >> i always leave -- here is what i think. every president runs their own white house. nobody runs the white house except the president. everything comes from the top. you are wrong. a great try. she's been a good supporter and friend of the family. we have to go. it's a chatty show. hillary clinton and bernie sanders drinking and dancing the night away after running into each other. that interesting encounter and more coming up. ♪

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welcome back. time for fastest seven minutes on television. "saturday night live" nailed the democratic race for president, again. check out the awesome hillary and larry david who practically is bernie sanders. >> remember when i told everyone to stop talking about your damn e-mails. what a schmuck. i know! i know. i'm so stupid. >> i don't really like people. i only talk to them because i want to be the president so bad. please don't tell, don't tell. >> i think they know. >> will you dance with me? i'll give you three superdelegates. >> i'll lead. >> never. ♪

>> all right, k.g., nailed it. >> a one way ticket to venezuela, baby. you won this prize. i think it's funny. the best reason it's so funny is because there's truth. >> so much truth into it. >> so much. >> i'll give you three superdelegates if you dance with me. >> he'd need more than three. i like larry david. i think he was great. man, he has become bernie sanders. he is worth watching. i don't think he's a member of the crew, right? >> no, no, no. >> they are at the end of the season and he defined the season. >> he is recession proof. he's got a job. >> hillary is that likable. >> that's true. what i like -- here is what i want to know. when bernie sanders writes his book about this election and makes money on the writing, i want to know if he flubbed that

about the damn e-mails. i think he meant to say people are tired of it. >> that spoke to it there. >> they are so real, it is hilarious. >> face it, larry david is not doing a great impression, he is doing himself. he's fine. it's funny. she's amazing. she moves like hillary clinton. it's may and they are making fun of two democrats on "saturday night live." who would have thought that would happen? it's amazing. >> going to be great when it's hillary and trump. all right. we'll move on. my pal mark cuban was asked by the never trump crew and asked if he would ever run for president. he rejected that idea. since he is widely respected, he might make a great v.p. >> absolutely. the key would be -- she would have to go more to center. i like the fact that senator

clinton has thought out proposals, but i think senator sanders dragged her too far to the west. >> what about donald trump? >> let's talk about it. we have to dig in and look and understand the issue so we can come up with solutions. >> what would it take to convince dwrou run in a 2020 or 2024? >> it's too early to tell. depending on what happened with whoever is elected and what happens with the economy. >> i chatted with mark pryor to the show. he said he would join either ticket with the right deal going back and forth. both of them would be helped by mark cuban. >> you think so? >> yeah. >> hillary clinton likes him because he's a businessman. >> think about his technology expertise. >> for vice president? >> yeah. 848. >> why would trump want him? >> donald trump could use help in that respect. >> he's a businessman.

donald says he's a businessman. he is. >> i like him. you like him? >> i don't know him. i appreciate the outsider status. he seems patriotic to me. there's a whole crowd, the no label crowd, that's what they are looking for. >> what do you think? >> he's your friend, i don't want to criticize, but i think you are foggy in the head, eric. no, he would not make a good vice president. >> what, because he's unpredictable? >> how about he started a company, sold it for $1 billion, bought a basketball team because he loves basketball, turned that into a multibillion dollar organization. >> quite handsome, would make an excellent husband. our hairdresser is crazy for him. >> i'm a big fan of the shows. the 2016 awards were awesome.

great performance with rihanna. then the anticipated prince tribute by madonna. pitchy and generally not good. take a listen. ♪ ♪ nothing compares nothing compares to you ♪ ♪ purple rain, purple rain ♪ only want to see you smiling in the purple rain ♪ >> your thoughts? >> i'm not a critic of music. i feel bad for her in a way, because critics are going to be critical. it's hard to do a tribute to

someone like prince. >> that's a hard gig. >> great chair, great outfit. >> that is like me doing a george carlin routine, i wouldn't do it. >> stevie wonder was fantastic, sounded on pitch. it's horrible because she's a female artist. it's not her sweet spot, if you know what i'm saying. >> i didn't think it was that great. i like the idea she was doing it. i didn't see trouble except her voice seemed to not bethere. poor stevie wonder, how did he get involved? >> next up, loud, liberal chris matthews acknowledges what fox viewers knew all along. the mainstream media is out of touch with most americans. his admission up ahead.

some sort of lightbulb appears to have gone off at msnbc. waiting for donald trump to talk about the nra, they said they don't share the same values and america americans.

>> why has there been a split between members of the news media who are mystified to learn of a gun culture in america outside of new york, washington and l.a.? >> we assume in the big cities there's a koz poll tall attitude. it's pro-choice, anti-gun rights, the usual sophistication we are used to. it's not representative of the country. >> he's using the top vocabulary words. kimberly -- >> i like it. >> the newscast. >> i'm loving the truth. he's the one that came up with the tingling feeling in the leg. i think someone hit him. he's speaking the truth saying yes, there's liberal bias and yes they see things differently than the rest of the american public, which explains the support for donald trump where,

you know, every day americans identify with him and they are choosing him over, say, jumping in on the political machine. >> one, you know in the halls of, you know, you had a national public radio. all the public media. do you know any republicans over there? are they like matthews and admit over there how liberal they are? >> it's clear. it's like me on this show. >> what do you mean by that? >> good looking. >> very nice. you know what is interesting to me is they are so removed from the idea there are smart people who think differently. i have always thought, growing up, i thought it was the right that was sort of intolerant, accepting and not open to ideas. it's the left that gets so defensive, angry and vicious. >> i think chris matthews, did it slip out? >> remember, he was in the carter white house. he's seen this and lives in

washington, d.c. your social and work circle combine in the media and politics. i think he wasn't being honest about the way it is. >> it's a bubble. isn't this what -- eric, isn't this what ted cruz was talking about? isn't that what he was trying to say? >> two pompous elites in the media. >> you say that -- >> imagine what they say about us. >> as williams laughs and chuckles, matthews says oh, the sophistication we are used to, but it's not representative of the country. basically saying they are smarter than the rest of the country, ha, ha, ha. we know what's going on. those fools in the rest of the country don't get it. they are not as smart as us. check the raittings and look at the score board. >> i think it's good. one more thing is up next. total.

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time now for one more thing. juan? >> we had an inspiring event over the weekends. defenders of freedom recognition right. hundreds of bikers parading through the streets to raise awareness of homeless veterans across america. too many people zwroefr look the fact that so many homeless serve

this great country and we owe them. not only gratitude, but real help, a helping hand. they have raised $55,000 to help homeless vets. what a great cause. keep riding. keep rolling. >> it's important to see that visual image. do not forget. on that, a special occasion. this is a heart warming story, i hope you enjoy it. 89-year-old holocaust survivor sang the national anthem. it was always her dream to sing the national an them. she's an incredible holocaust survivor. her family was split up and she was liberated in january of 1945. she's been a fan, a big fan of the detroit tigers since she moved to the area 60 years ago.

dana? >> so brave to stand-up in front of that crowd. that was a great one. things that can be crushing as a kid? if you are 4 years old, excited to go to disney world with your family, but you get sick and can't go. 22 years later, her dad found the ticket, still in good condition in her base. . she decided to give it a shot. she went to disney world said hi, i have an old ticket, can it be honored? they did. they let her in and she spent the entire day at disney. >> didn't have to call 22 people. it was spontaneous. >> the happiest place on earth. go. >> probably won't make you happy. this will tick you off. you know the everyone get astro fi crowd? >> yep. >> north carolina went a step

further. the board voted to stop recognizing valedictorian and others like that, the accomplishments, achievements. they said it's, quote, unhealthy competition. therefore, we have officially become a nation of wussies. >> i would love to ask him what he means by that? >> they are going to know anyway. they know it's the smart one. >> you are up. >> i would not go fishing in a kayak, but this guy did. it's off the coast of texas. take a look at this guy. he caught a shark. if you catch a shark and you want to let him go, don't take him in the boat first. he took him in. now, take a look here. he opens up his legs. what is he doing? >> there goes the family jewels. right? >> he let the shark go. everyone lives. >> how did he get him out?

>> it's like "sharknado." >> that was exciting. fish and game. set your dvrs to never miss an episode of "the five." "special report" is next. i'm bret baier in washington. this is a fox news alert. president obama's chief of veteran affairs is under heavy fire. robert mcdonald likened the life and death struggle over wait times of american war heros to waiting in line in disney land. that sparked a lot of attention on capitol hill. they said the crisis of veteran wait times for treatment is not the spinning teacups. doug has the top story tonight from the pentagon. doug? >> good evening, brett. it is one thing to wait in line for a ride at disneyland, another to wait for a doctors