all. they're big babies, but there have always been a lot of big babe be byes. >> puts it in perspective. >> trump economics is a recipe for lower wages, fewer jobs, more debt. he could bankrupt america like he's bankrupted his company. >> hillary clinton warning voters that a president trump would mean fewer jobs in america, but some here say trump is the only presidential candidate who actually created jobs in america, so who's right and who's wrong? hi, everybody, welcome to forbes on fox. let's go in focus with mr. steve forbes. rich carlguard, mike and elizabeth mcdonald, john and bruce jackson. so, rich, what does hillary actually know about business? >> well, not much. i haven't heard any distance

between her program and president obama's programs and that's led to this 2% growth. we're missing $2 trillion of growth we should have if we had better economic governing, but look, i think trump said something amazing this week. he said he wants to make america rich. that we can only be strong if we're rich. you know, that is a simple, powerful idea. >> it is a simple, powerful idea. braus, is is it a good idea? >> i think it would be a good idea if he could get anybody to adwree with him. can't ooempb get the speaker of the house to agree with him. listen, trump would bankrupt the country because he's not willing to touch entitlement and we don't know enough about his businesses because we haven't seen his tax return for starters. you have to get along with people. that's one of the problems everybody admits going on in washington and he's continuing to attack people in his own party. >> one thing we know is what has

happened over the past seven and a half years of a democratic president. we have had terrible numbers in terms of business creation. in fact, there are more business closings than that are start ups. hillary clinton just mentioned the debt that trump will be lousy, but look what's happening to the death. it's doubled in the past eight years. >> yes, what barack obama has done is the economic equivalent of water boring the economy. we've seen it in labor participation rates, investments, the lack of start ups, the lack of entrepreneurship. if you want four more years of that, hillary clinton will give it to you, even worse,'s going to raise taxes. >> she mentioned bankruptcy. not all of the bankruptcies she mentioned were trump's fault, but fact is, her notion that businesses should always succeed all the time. that says something about what she thinks of business, doesn't it? >> it does. because it shows she doesn't understand that any successful business man is going to have lots of failures an sometimes, bankruptcies. now, looking that in a bigger

picture, the only way to bankrupt the u.s. economy is to have policies that are -- to economic growth. hillary's tax ideas are e anymore cal, but trump's ideas on trade would have a very chilling impact on growth. >> there's another thing besides taxes. regulatio regulations. he taj came out with a new study showing regulations put in under president obama cost $108 billion a year. just the ones president obama created. >> that's equate to putting the size of serbia on the business's heads. you've got to wonder, it's a pipe dream would ever pass a nuisance tax on the white house, but here's what hillary clinton is is saying within to your point about rules and regulations. a lot of rules and regulations in her policies. a lot of changes there. her policies would cost $1

trillion over the next ten years. and bill clinton would never accept that his own wife's policies, remember he said back in the day, the big government is over. >> there's another thing hillary has said about energy jobs and carbon energy jobs. >> i'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key in to coal country because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business. >> that comment really hurt her a lot in places like west virginia. she claims the green jobs will replace the carbon energy jobs. that didn't work out too well the past seven years. >> a lot of problems with obama's program. you had bankruptcies, but what bothers me most about that comment is is that it's directed at coal miner, but that she would be as arrogant enough to believe she could see the future

of energy. someone who's never been in business, has no idea about what the industry is. somehow, she's going to look into a crystal ball and be able to decide the future. i would much rather have a successful business man like trump or forget him, the woman who owns the nail salon in glenn rock where i live, be in charnl of the economy because at least she know, hillary clinton is clueless. >> the number of jobs, we looked up the number of jobs that we think have been created be by the trump organization. 22,000. it's a guesstimate because it's not a public company, but you look at the clinton foundation, about the only private sector that i can think of. 486 jobs. that's not a great record. >> clinton foundation survives on contributions.

trump has to survive and thrive of customers. two very different dynamics. some of those to give to the clinton foundation, rather than trump, you want to go there for a good time. >> and bruce, those jobs at the clinton foundation, those sort of crony capitalists we don't want to have in business here, do we? >> listen, i think hillary understands that you have to get along to get things done in washington and you said it best when you talked about trump's job creation. it is a guesstimate because he's keeping everything to himself and not letting us in on what his business really looks like. >> you're thinking it is possible that the trump organization has created fewer jobs that n the clinton foundatn sm. >> no, i'm not saying that. >> compare apples to apples. let's compare trump's empire to public hotel company and see what the growth is. we don't know. >> i don't think there's any

question, despite the fact there's confusion about how much trump is worth, there's no question about the fact that he has created real jobs where hillary hasn't. >> well, that's correct. and the canary in the coal mine in this weak, american economy is the lack of new business formation as steve pointed out. we now have more business failures than we have business start ups, which is really a grave situation and you can point the finger at regulation is the cause. because people don't want to start a business because they don't want to spend half their time on paperwork and at least trump has said some really positive things about remaking the regulatory state. >> and job, i understand your qualms about trufr's statements on trade, some of which frankly sound foolish to me. like you want to force apple to manufacture iphones here, which would put them out of business. everybody would buy sam sung if apple went up double this price, so some of those comments are foolish, but he has a pretty good economic theme surrounding

him right now, doesn't he? >> let's hope so, but let's remind everyone this is basic. there's no mystery about economic growth. it's about politicians getting out of the way, about them removing governmental barrier, spening a weak dollar. taxes to production. this is simple. let's stop talking about president's magical figuring that can help us, please. gl i love that. it is not rocket science. it is pretty straightforward. >> it's not rocket science. even the democratic party's platform from 1960 to 2008 acknowledged exactly what john is saying. lower taxes, less government. lower our regulation. they went through an identity crisis as soon as president obama was elected. >> incredible thing, makes my head want to explode. while it's not rocket science, the science fiction we hear very often from people who believe in planned economies is crazy. they want to force us all into this idea that doesn't really work in the real world. >> yeah, they didn't get the news that the berlin wall fell

and the soviet union collapsed, but this is not just about how to create prosperity. this is about power. these people know that they're only going to have big things in life. this is a lot of it's camouflaged. they want power. >> next, seizing your entire bank account because he didn't like the way you made deposits and withdrawals. then, keeping your money forever. >> when they told us that they had already been to our bank and seized all the money in our account. which left us with nothing. at old dominion, we see freight... ...as a combination of products and customers. every on-time arrival is backed by thousands of od employees, ...who make sure the millions of products we ship arrive without damages. because od employees treat customer service...

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activities when it crashed about two miles from the george washington bridge. officials say the plane was having engine trouble shortly before the crash. 150 of the world's top doctors are urging the summer olympics in rio de janeiro be postponed or moved because of the zika outbreak. the doctors are voicing their concerns in a letter to the world health organization saying they're concerned about the spread of the virus. brazil is seeing a large outbroke, which the w.h.o. is calling a health emergency. thanks for watching. now back to forbes on fox. >> told us they had been to our bank and seized all the money in our bank account, which left us with nothing. the bills that needed to be paid.

teenagers who hadn't cashed their checks yet. >> innocent business owners testifying how the irs seized their bank assets because they fought they were making deposits and withdrawals to a vague government reporting wrirmts. they're not alone. their attorney claiming the agency confiscated $43 million from innocent small business owners from 2007 and 2013. and steve says that the real problem. >> it is. it's a form of, as obscene, a form of naked thievery, grossly violating the spirit of the constitution and rule of law. these things should not be allowed. they should be banned immediately and those owners whose assets were seized should get triple and the agents responsible, fire them. >> that would teach them, right, bill? >> under my reform plan, the irs could snatch any money they felt like, but pursuant to what steve

suggested, they would have a hearing, find out how much the victim really owe and then have to return double the difference. maybe triple. go for it, steve. >> but john, the whole point is the irs works so against what america is supposed to be like. you're innocent until proven guilty. they snatched up even if you are innocent. >> wup of the single functions of government in a normal world is that thprotect us from fraud. how ironic and sad that it is the government itself that's taking our wealth from us. >> bruce, how could we let this happen in america many. >> listen, i'm not wild about civil forfeittures and it appears this got a little out of control from when hfs it was used in drug trafficking. but i think there should be some way of people are ignoring court orders and hearings to at least do something with them. but charlie said this is the most bipartisan effort he's seen

on this committee since he's been there and that's saying something. >> it is. particularly, a lot of the policies that charlie has come out with are very antibusiness and you see these business people. they worked hard all their lives. decent people. beginning to choke up because they can't afford not b to be paid. >> you could get double or triple the money back, that would be great, but it would take time. have to be litigated. reputations are lost. businesses are lost. heart rs broken. >> what do you think of this? >> this is seeing john in the name of sort of civil forfeitture, but really, the point of it is to sort of stop potential criminal activity. so, if the government wanted to do this correctly, it can seize money in the criminal way, which would mean they have to bring charges up. they would have to have evidence and it makes it a lot harder for the government. so, they're trying to sort of

skirt their way around and if you look at how much money they're taking, in most case, it's less than $30,000. that does not signal a massive conspiracy scheme or criminal act. so, it's all very suspicious. >> steve, the point is, the irs for year, for decades, has been used by government agencies to do their bidding. and that shouldn't happen. it should just be a collection actsy, period, right? >> absolutely. again, it gets the whole essence of the rule of law. you're innocent until proven guilty and by the way, it's a good argument for the flat tax. strip the irs of its powers entirely and that problem won't be there. >> do you think that would happen, if we get to a flat tax? >> i think, i'd love to have a flat tarks but i think we'd have another problem. you'd have al capone. >> what distinguishes the u.s. is that people pay their taxes

because they go to jail if they don't. >> we are their suts. this is not their money. the idea owe them money, just a foensive. show me all the good get from this government spending. >> and rich, we're getting close to the anniversary of the revolutionary, july fourth, when we declared our independence from tyranny. >> time for another revolution. look, steve is is right. blow up the irs. replace it with a flat tax. 15 to 20%. steve's got the right plan. that's what we should do. >> okay. can't get anytime better than that. the cashing in gang getting ready to roll. >> it's a war of words between donald trump and elizabeth warren. while many are calling her a hypocrite for accusing the donald of cashing in on the housing crisis. plus, san francisco upholing its sanctuary city policies. if it protects illegals, should taxpayers insist it lose all

federal funds. up first, union backed protesters demanding mcdonald's pay them more, but some say it's more about helping union bosses than helping workers. they'll explain. with usaa is awesome. homeowners insurance life insurance automobile insurance i spent 20 years active duty they still refer to me as "gunnery sergeant" when i call being a usaa member because of my service in the military to pass that on to my kids something that makes me happy my name is roger zapata and i'm a usaa member for life. usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life.

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labor back in the protesters demanding mcdonald's pay workers $15 an hour. why some say it's not about

all right, union backed protesters marching in front of the mcdonald's headquarters near chicago this week. they're demanding to unionize and also demanning a $15 minimum

wage, but the former head says it could backfire. >> it's cheaper to buy a $35,000 robotic arm than it is to hire an employee that's inefficient makie ining $15 an hour bagging french fries. it's nonsense. zpl him saying that, it means nothing to me because the fact is, robots cannot say good morning to customers. >> with all due difference to that woman, guess what, they already have robots greeting customers. look. >> nice to meet you. what would you like to order? >> can i have a beef burger? >> sure. >> just wondering if this is really about the workers or the union bosses. >> this is all about the union bosses. in 2014, average pay for a ceo in the united states was 18 that same year, 160 union presidents and executive presidents made more than that.

>> look at the actual number that is we have of the union leaders. these guys are making a fortune. >> same time, david, the enrollment in private union workers has declined. so, the bosses are gets more with less workers. >> bruce, to mike's point, we have seen union membership come down in recent years. >> i'm thinking that the ceo of mcdonald's makes a heck of a lot more than that and gets stock option, which the people serving the food do not do. there were more than just union people like at that protest here in chicago. maybe they can pay them in burgering. probably what they want to do. who knows. paying $15 an hour at mcdonald's is going to kill anybody. they've got their all day breakfast menu. >> it could kill those starter jobs. i got a grandson who's working at mcdonald'sing right now, he wants that job more than he wants what the union bosses want. from. >> of course. if the union bosses cared about the workers, they would

eliminate any kind of barrier to entry into the workplace and that would mean in lowering the minimum wage, who are younger than 25 for instance, could get that, rung in the ladder. this is all about keeping unions in power and has nothing to do with that's good for the workers. >> the people who put together itch impbs, they've replaced 60,000 workers with robots. >> should be protesting in washington, d.c. in front of the white house for crushing high paying union manufacturing jobs. you cannot raise family of four on a fast food salary. >> quickly. >> in california, turn into -- there's an exception for those restaurants an hotels that have unionized workforces. gl steve, mcdonald's has come out with a statement, kind of a

statement saying okay, we offer mcdonald's employees the best opportunities. what do you think? >> i think they're just trying to show the public they're being reasonable, but the fact of the matter is is with kiosks an other things, you're going to have less and less use for that labor. raising artificial wages. if you could edge legislate pro perty, the soviet youn onwould have won the war. debt topping $2.2 trillion. informers of the stocks they say will help you pay off your debt.

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>> glad it's still there. are have a wonderful memorial day and never forget those who risked their lives to keep us safe and free. here's eric. pocahontas. that's elizabeth warren. goofy. she gets less done than anybody in the united states senate. she gets nothing done. nothing passed. she's got a big mouth. and that's about it. >> well, donald trump firing back at senator elizabeth warren for claiming he profited from the housing crisis. the war of words all began when warren said this. >> donald trump was drooling over the idea of a housing meltdown. because it meant he could buy up more property on the cheap. what kind of a man does that? a man who will never be pr