they need to conduct a search to

find what evidence maybe there to indicate what prompted this person to ajt the way he did, who he may have been working with, and learn from this so we can use it in future cases, as well. >> what type of evidence would they be looking for? >> certainly for computer evidence, for example, to see who has he been in communication. has anyone else been involved leading him to commit this crime or he was inspired to do so by websites and other information he was looking at. like wise, they will also look at physical telltale signs. who he has been speaking with by cell phone, numbers or addresses at his property. any number of pieces of information can help prevent the next act. >> does it matter if he was a lone wolf and self radicalized or given direction from isis? when we know he has already claimed himself in a 911 call

that his allegiance was to isis. >> certainly matters if he's working with other people. we want to make sure we are going after them, as well. like wise, if he's getting direction from somebody or being inspired, perhaps by a source that law enforcement may not be familiar with, it will give law enforcement a chance to study the source and see who else maybe the next person that is so inspired. >> so we keep saying, if you see something, say something. there were co-workers of mateen who worked with him, who say they did talk about and turn in his aggressive behavior. some crazy things he said, comments he made against homosexuals. but they said the bosses did not do anything specifically because he was muslim and they did not want to be accused of being racist. >> well, one of the things i talk about in my book is i

discover discuss race, ethnicity, anything like that. i talk about the indicators. if you see something, say something, not about the person's race or religion but specifically let's look at what they are doing. let's look at those issues and report to law enforcement because those are the keys that would indicate somebody may wish to carry out a terrorist attack. >> thank you for joining us so early this morning. appreciate it. >> thank you. tensions climb nationwide as the orlando massacre triggers threats of terrorism on american soil. >> coming up, we are joined by former cop steve rogers, lieutenant steve rogers. just how safe are cities from home grown terrorists?

just how repaired are local law enforcement agencies to ensure the safety of their citizens from another terror attack. joining us is steve rogers, retired lieutenant with the nuttily, new jersey police department. that's the question americans are saying to themselves everywhere, could orlando be my neighborhood, my community and the answer probably is, yeah, it could. >> yes, it could. just to mention the orlando police department and what they did there was outstanding. they were able to get 30 hostages out. able to minimize loss as much as the losses were. they were prepared after they act to a situation. tactically and strategically they are well prepared. what we need to do is look at the intelligence and information gathering aspect of all of these scenarios. i believe the federal government can do a lot more in providing

local law enforcement with the training they need in order to gather and collect and even to some degree analyze intelligence that may help prevent these attacks. >> what i'm trying to figure out is in 2013 and in 2014, the fbi came to their attention that this guy was making claims he was connected to hezbollah and al-qaeda and terrorist group and the boston bombers and he was making all kinds of inflammatory terrorist-related claims. apparently this only came to the attention of the fbi, which didn't share it with local law enforcement. how come it went to the fbi but not to the orlando police? >> it should have after the investigation was closed. when you have an ongoing investigation, the greatest concern that any law enforcement agency would have is compromising that investigation. but the fbi agent that was on tv consistently said investigation was closed and at that point, just for informational purposes,

that information should have went to local law enforcement. >> then, of course, after all of this had occurred, he had been investigated and somehow miraculously cleared by the fbi because they couldn't verify any of the claims. he buys guns in the course of the last week to ten days, including a high-powered assault rifle. doesn't that get flagged in some way? >> it should have. look, there's a breakdown in the system that obviously has now been discovered that although the fbi interviews you for possible terrorist activity, you are still able to go out and purchase guns and do these things that you shouldn't be doing. what has to change is, look, it shouldn't take an arrest. you get fingerprinted, a mug shot, et cetera, when you are arrested. because now with terrorism, the game has to change now. if you are a suspected terrorist and on a watch list, perhaps you should be fingerprinted. that in and of itself would give

a gun dealer some flag. >> can we move to what is happening now? we have investigators, fbi -- fbi, evidence response team. they are on the scene at the nightclub at this hour. what are they looking for? we talked about the semiautomatic rifle that was used by the suspect. >> what they are looking for -- by the way, they are doing an excellent job. there's no question in my mind they have prevented a lot of attacks. what they are looking at now, they are looking at shell casings, they will see if there is one or more weapons used, it is unknown if there was someone else there, probably not at this point but they will gather as much evidence as they could. if there is video evidence, phones on the ground with video on the phones, every piece of information they need to conclude the case might be at that scene. >> steve rogers joining us, don't go far. we will have you back in the next hour, as well. a lot of questions still remain. >> indeed. the orlando shooter calling 911

before going on his spree and pledging his allegiance to isis. >> ahead, we look at how the terror group is using social media to recruit members from the u.s. what can be done to stop this.

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via social media. so what can be done, if anything, to pull the plug on their online access? joining us now on the telephone to talk about it, retired colonel utterback. what can be done? all of these venues that isis exploits? >> good morning, greg. and it can't. it cannot, and it will not. and the problem will persist until we come together as a country in a way similar to the way government, the military, and industry came together for the manhattan project in the early 1940s. it will really take a sitdown, and it will take a sitdown that we shouldn't be hearing about where the president, the national security agency, social media companies and leaders of

industry sit down together and say hey, what can we do better? and then let's not announce that we're going to do it and quietly go about trying to weed these guys out. >> let's say they do that, colonel. what is the method and mechanism by which they shut it down? >> shut it down? i think that's impossible, because the ideology, this is an adaptive enemy. they continue to seek soft targets in a new venue to communicate. and we're talking about the thoughts inside people's heads and only in science fiction does the government and the military start to control that. so this is a generational struggle. the country is at war and will remain at war in the most threatening ways, the most terrifying type of war, when the thoughts inside of somebody's head can be kept secret.

>> what would you do to defeat the enemy? >> we have to defeat isis on the battlefields of iraq and syria. we have to show that these guys aren't supermen and they were crushed. this 7th century mindset that kills people like animals because they're a little bit different has to be defeated on the battlefield. they have to be shown as losers, just like when we defeated imperial japan and nazi germany. >> there's no question that isis are a group of despicable, heinous human beings, and that's a given. but how do we go about getting rid of them so they no longer threaten americans and do harm to americans? >> like i said, take the fight to the enemy overseas and the

next president, he or she i believe is going to have to increase our military presence and cooperation. we hear a lot now about coalitions and allies and what we should be doing. i really think it's going to take more boots on the ground with our friends and allies over there, and working with those governments -- >> are we talking about boots on the ground in iraq and syria? retaking mosul and do it deliberately and forcefully? and then moving to syria and take over isis strong holds there and just eradicate them? >> it will take an eradication, but we're going to do it by, with, and through our allies on the ground. there's not enough public support for large formations of the u.s. military to do a job. to paraphrase president johnson, we're going to want those countries sending their troops to do that job, not american troops. but we will have u.s. air power,

intelligence, and increased special operations that just get over there and work with the local forces and make them more effective, and help them get the job done better. the problem becomes the political and diplomatic relations with those governments to keep them on the job, help them take care of their own country that we've invested so much in. >> lieutenant colonel mitch utterback, thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. good night, y'all. >> the shooting in orlando raising concerns about homegrown terror from radical islam. >> just ahead, we look at what could be done right here in the united states to fight this ideology. you won't see these folks at the post office. they have businesses to run. they have passions to pursue. how do they avoid trips to the post office? stamps.com mail letters, ship packages, all the services of the post office right on your computer.

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undeniably, the war on terror is being fought right here on u.s. soil. so what does the government have

to do to counter the ideology that is fueling radical islam? next, we have zudi jasper, american islamic forum for democracy. thank you for joining us so early this morning. >> thank you. good to be with you. >> so we have our political leaders, president obama specifically, refusing to call it radical islam. is that where we need to begin, calling it what it is? >> well, you can't treat something that you can't even diagnose. and muslims and islam are in that time of history that our founding fathers were. imagine the founding fathers not being able to recognize christian thee yocracy as the problem. we currently have a sophisticated program where all we're doing is trying to find the ones that are militant versions of this global ideology

of the sheraria islamic state. until we have muslims lining up to die for american freedoms, for free speech, anti-homophobia, all these aspects of islam must be confronted. unfortunately, homeland security, politicians, universities have completely been missing in action in taking sides within the house of islam. there is a cosmic battle going on within the house of islam. and so far, whether on political correctness, blame it on our allies, the saudis, the qataris, the turks and others that we don't want to offend that are part of the main problem, nobody is taking a side in this battle within the house of islam. >> and the battle within the house, what are the two sides and who is winning? >> one side is the side that believes in freedom and the

separation of mosque and state. when we formed our organization, the mission was to defeat the islamic state. many people are understanding why that was our mission. currently, the islamists are winning. not only are they winning elections after the air rackrab awakening, be it the muslim brotherhood and others, but nobody is helping this third pathway in the middle east aside from the dictatorships from the old military dictatorships of the 20th century, there has to be a third pathway, and we have to really believe that is a possible transformation for the muslim world, because the only other option is to somehow think that we can build walls around this and never mind the fact that these are american citizens that are completing most of these acts. and we can't build a wall around

an ideology that has a quarter of the world's population. >> i wanted to ask you about what this particular crime was being called. almost immediately people were calling it a hate crime, talking about countering violent extremism. does that help or hurt when it comes to tackling the issue, the bottom line issue? >> it is a damaging way to look at it beyond epic proportion. islam, theocracy is by definition a hate-inspired ideology. hate is part of it, but we try to put our own 21st century of terrorism and hate crimes into a battle that really is a 13th, 14th century battle that america is a part of because islam is using us as collateral damage as they divide the world into the land of islam and the land of

war. so we can't continue to use the tired old 21st century american paradigms of crime and terrorism and hate and gun issues when in fact this is an idealogical battle. none of these individuals, for example, will be found in background checks because they may not have previous crime records. they might have domestic violence, but the bottom line, they won't pick up on backgrounds because they went from a normal muslim to radical. >> he had been under investigation by the fbi twice in 2013 and 2014. you also say it's wrong to call them lone wolves. >> i can't tell you how suffocating that is to reformers. because americans and other security analysts sit back and say lone wolves as if we can look at this analysis always post mortem for a week or two.

they look at it as if it's some laboratory experiment of one individual, when it's all the same sbintoxicant that they're drinking from. it's like saying two different cocaine addicts are not part of the same disease. it's the same disease, and it needs the same treatment. by calling it lone wolf, we're becoming complacent to say there's no way to predict it, which is nonsense. >> thank you for joining us. i believe i'm going to be talking with you in the next hour. >> thank you. slgz >> we're back now with steve rogers, retired detective. there is a tendency to try to search for someone or something to blame for all of this. t

we're just trying to figure out how to do better in the future. to that end, vigilance on the part of average citizens? >> well, that's exactly right. people historically are afraid to call the police because they're in fear that they're going to get entangled in something they don't want to. you know there has been an unintended consequence of all the technology given to police. that is a wall of separation has been created once again between the people and the police. we need to go back to community policing. we need to get the cops back ne become friends with the people, and that will build the confidence of the people to speak to their officers in the neighborhood face to face, and maybe give them the tips they need to combat terrorism. >> there's a report from one of the co-workers who is complaining that look, we kept

telling our employer that this guy was dangerous, and unhinged, but according to the co-worker, and these are his words, the employer wouldn't do anything about it because mateen was muslim. >> well, you see, it goes back to that fear factor. was this employer afraid of being stereoed typed or being labeled islamaphobic. it's killing this nation and we have to do what is correct, and that is to work together, all of us, no matter who we are, where we're from, to protect our fellow americans. >> steve, what about what the terrorism is ultimately classified as, an act of terrorism, hate crime, workplace violence, where does that make a difference? >> because all these excuses, workplace violence, hate crimes, these are enemy combatants. these aren't criminals.

you're a criminal on the street and a gang, et cetera. these are enemy combatants and they have to be dealt with as such. >> you know, we have talked about how it appears on its face that the fbi did not share the information they had with local law enforcement. let's assume for the sake of argument they did. what then could or would local law enforcement do, if anything? >> very difficult for local law enforcement to surveil everyone in their neighborhoods and cities. goes back to the point that the federal government has to begin funding, not taking away, not defunding local law enforcement, but funding law enforcement so that local law enforcement can get the tooling they need to follow up on the information that the fbi gives them. >> whatever happened to the billions that was spent after 9/11 that was farmed out to all kinds of law enforcement agencies all over the nation, even some who didn't have terror concerns? >> remember, they didn't provide local law enforcement to buy the

military equipment they needed to respond to these actions, then they took it away. part of the ferguson effect, we want all that equipment back. here we are back to square one, where we need that equipment to respond to these atrocious attacks on u.s. soil. >> makes sense. >> steve rogers, thank you very much. >> you're welcome. a massacre in orlando leaves 50 dead, at least 50, and 53 injured. it is now the worst mass shooting on u.s. soil. >> it now has many people asking what does our government do going forward? our special coverage continues.

a saturday night out at a dance club turning into a nigh of terror. the pulse nightclub as it's known, becoming the scene of the deadliest mass shooting on american soil. now the question is asked yet again what does the government do now? joining us now is christian whiten, who is a former state department official, former adviser to the undersecretary of state for democracy, christian, thanks for being with us. the question is, what do we do

now? and both presumptive presidential nominees have sort of been in general terms urging more direct action. your take? >> well, they've been urging direct action in very different directions. you have hillary clinton basically calling for more of the same, and trying to push the reaction down the path of the reaction to the sort of nutjobs who have shot up schools or the church in south carolina, calling for more gun control and frankly calling for thanks that you would have difficulty presuming would solve any of these problems. donald trump taking a very different tact, unlike hillary and unlike president obama, specifically calling it radical islamic terrorism, criticizing hillary for not doing that. and being a bit vague on what he would like to see happen, but signaling a trump administration would target the ideology that motivates these jihadists by first naming them.

>> you know, americans tend to care more about domestic issues. they vote their wallets polls consistently show. but when events like this take place, they really shock the conscience of americans, and is this sort of a wakeup call that we need to pay a whole lot more attention to this than we do maybe other issues? >> i think so. it does weave with some of the other issues, trump and bernie sanders have leveraged, including that we have an elite that just isn't being honest with us about issues like jobs and trade. -- fewer than who were killed in orlando, but nonetheless, a serious attack wasn't just a one off episode that we have corrected for via a governmental action. this is a budding threat. and it doesn't seem like any of

the current solutions are being offered by the obama administration are working because well, they just haven't worked. >> you've probably been thinking about this all day long, as americans have been, how could this happen, why did it happen, and how come it wasn't prevented? especially since this guy was on the fbi radar not once, not twice, but three times? >> that's right. what we've done is failed to basically ban the ideology of our enemies. this is something, you know, fdr would not have allowed nazi operatives to conduct political affairs in the united states. similarly early in the cold war, we had an act that basically banned communist political activity. the constitution is not a suicide pact, and the first amendment does not protect enemies from organizing and conducting political and violent affairs on our territory. so updating some of those cold

war laws is something i would like to hear both candidates talk about. >> i heard one congressman say on our air today in reference to civil liberties and we can't infringe on those. he said it's time to be correct, not politically correct. your version of that would be what? >> well, yeah. i think we need to call out this threat for what it is and be on the offensive against this ideology abroad and at home. we need to ban any of these applicants who subscribes to the idea of unifying mosques and suby gating gays and women and anybody else they disagree with. you need to be screened to go into basically every public venue. if we don't want that here, we need to go on the offensive. >> christian, thank you very

much. i appreciate it. still to come, grim days ahead as orlando and the nation try to cope with sunday morning's deadly toll. >> and some disturbing questions in the aftermath. 15 years after 9/11, just how guarded are american cities from the evil of terrorism?

some final thoughts now from steve rogers on the tragic events in orlando, florida. steve is a retired lieutenant detective, formally with the nutley, new jersey police department. so how do you wrap this up? >> well, what's important is classification of these incidents are very important, because it drives the investigation. there's no question at least in

my view that the president of the united states should make it very clear that these are radical islamic terrorists. we need to understand that we are at war with them. so there will never be any more talk about hate crimes or workplace violence. we're at war, and these terrorists become enemy combatants and then subject to a whole different type of, if you will, justice system. >> and look, the fbi has a fine, distinguished track record of foiling a great many terrorist attacks, and i don't mean to diminish it in any way. but are there lessons to be learned by the fbi, which had this guy in their sights three times? >> well, perhaps more information sharing and quicker information sharing, as we stated earlier, especially in this case with the chief of the orlando police department. let me add this, the fbi is

under intense pressure. they too need help from the white house and they need help from the congress. >> but they're sometimes a little bit too insular, which i don't understand. >> well, i through you find that in a lot of agencies, because there is a fear that a critical investigation could be compromised. i believe that's the driving force, because those are things we'll have to look at, review, and do what we have to do and all that we can tow stop terrorist attacks. >> when this mateen was under investigation, at least twice before, possibly three times, no doubt his family would have been interviewed, would they not have been interviewed those previous times, the family home is being searched, as well. >> absolutely right. and i find it unbelievable that they did not know more about their own relative, especially with regard to being influenced by terrorists. but it goes back to that principle, if you see something, say something, and that's where

your local police officer comes in handy. perhaps these people didn't have enough confidence in the federal government, but they sure would have confidence in a local cop that knew them. >> what if the family is proven that they did know something else was going on here? could they be held liable and in what way? >> it's proven that they were part of the planning, if they were part of setting up the operation, sure, they would be held liable, and they could be taken to task by the justice department. but i think that's a far stretch at this point. but you never know where these things are going to turn. >> but if they just turn a blind eye to his radicalization and his actions? >> i think that goes on a lot. people turn a blind eye out of fear. if they turn a blind eye, it's not a crime unless they were actually involved in the establishing and preparation of this attack. >> a lot of loved families are simply in denial. steve rogers, many thanks, sir. we appreciate your insights.

of course, our prayers with all of those families involved. 50 people dead, 53 injured. >> horrific. the worst massacre in american history. i'm greg jared. thank you for joining us. >> stay tune, "fox and friends" starts next.

it is monday, june 13th, and you are watching an early edition of fox news. and a bloody massacre shaking america to its core. >> the deadliest terror attack on american soil since 9/11. >> it was rapid fire. then changed ammunition, and then another change of ammunitions. >> all you hear is gunshots. >> i took my bandana off and tied it up and put it in the