>> see you back here in an hour. >> "outnumbered" the starts right now. harris: fox news alert. growing questions about whether the obama administration secretly paid a ransom to iran for the freedom of four american hostages. now, josh ernest, this press secretary, is speaking with the media. they just asked him questions. let's watch that together. >> administration kept in place tough financial sanctions against iran, because of variety of concerns that we have about their behavior including their support for terrorism. their violation of human rights. and a ballistic missile program that they maintain that continues to be inconsistent with u.n. security council resolutions. the facts are quite clear.

i think it is an indication, just how, badly, opponents ever the iran deal are struggling, to justify their opposition to a successful deal that has prevented and continues to prevent iran from developing a nuclear weapon. >> you responded to two specific questions. one, was there money ransom for the folks that were released? >> no, it was not. it is against the policy of the united states to pay ransom for hostages. >> just a coincidence? >> mike, again we talked about this in january too. let's talk about this. there was a conscious, strategic decision that was made on the part of the obama administration as we were implementing the deal to prevent iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. to resolve other long-standing concerns that we had with iran. and that included securing the release of five american

citizens who had been unjustly detained in iran. and closing out a long-standing financial dispute, in a way that saved the american people potentially billions of dollars. so, this all came to a head at same time, because we were addressing and resolving long-standing concerns with iranian behavior. and the benefits are almost too long to mention. but the highlights are, iran is not developing a nuclear weapon. iran is, had to scale back significant aspects of their nuclear program. iran released five americans unjustly detained on iranian soil. we resolved a 35-year-old financial claim in a way that saves americans potentially millions of dollars. those are the highlights. >> one of the things, i will let my colleagues go. >> okay. >> you cited the sanctions on iran, banking sanctions on iran, because of concerns of

terrorism, all of that. still in place. >> that's right. >> there are people who say, yeah, but handing over a pallet full of cash is actually less secure. i mean that money could be handed off and distributed to terrorists potentially with even less ability to track, ability to know, what is being purchased, arms, other things, that so, is there a, you know, was the white house all concerned at all they were essentially handing iranians a pot of untraceable money that is, you know, potentially going to fall into the hands of people we don't like, things we don't want to be doing? >> so, let's just review. as i mentioned earlier, the united states continues to have concerns with some of iran's nefarious activities. but cia director, just last week, addressed concerns that have been raised by critics of the deal, about how an money that iran has received since

january, has been spent in iran. and i don't want to ruin the surprise here, but the iranian government has spent the money largely in the way that we expected that they would. since the international community worked together to impose sanctions on iran, on iran because of their nuclear program, their economy suffered. so it makes sense that when iran got revenue, as a result of the iranian agreement, for example, the nuclear agreement, for example, they used that money to prop up their currency. that had been significantly devalued by the sanctions regime. we also know that when iran was subject to all these sanctions, they were not able to finance infrastructure improvements. their infrastructure was crumbling. we know they used revenue from sanctions relief, to start investing in infrastructure. we also know that they had significant debts they were unable to pay.

they were eager to repay those debts. frankly their creditors were eager to collect. >> specifically how, that specific pile of cash, literally was used? do you know -- that money was spent by the iranians? >> the, well, first of all it is iranian money. what is true from all of the money that iran received since january, including from sanctions relief which actually we know is more than $400 billion, it is much smaller than hundreds of billions of dollars that critics predicted. we can get to that a little bit too. the analysis that is we've done, confirms that what we predicted. largely that money was spent forward to address the dire economic condition of the nation of iran. the president was quite forward leaning, in advance of the nuclear deal even being completed, in acknowledging that we know iran supports terrorism,

we know that iran supports hezbollah and assad regime. and it is certainly possible that some of the money, that iran has is be purposes too. that is precisely why this administration on the front end has been deepening our engagement with our partners in the middle east to counter those activities, to more effectively interdict illicit materials that could be used to support iran's ballistic missile program. to more effectively strengthen the defenses of our partners to counter iran's nefarious activities but the bulk of the money, we know has been going to shoring up their economic weakness and that is exactly what we predicted. what has nod happened, and where the critics of the deal get it wrong, iran has not enjoyed hundreds of billions of dollars in sanctions relief. iran has not been able to use hundreds of billions of dollars in sanctions relief to support terrorism or to prop up the

assad regime. people who made that prediction were either badly misinformed or lying to the american public. and i will leave it to them to explain why their predictions didn't come true. it does explain, however, why they continue to resurface six-month-old news stories to justify their opposition to an agreement that has benefited the american people. both financially and when it comes to our national security. olivia. >> [inaudible] colleague's questions. the question about the cybersecurity. do you have your concern or lack thereof about the integrity of voting machines. harris: they are going to hit very important issues with josh earnest. we want to just pause for just a second to talk about where he just was, because it is also an important story today. just to recap very briefly, bring in our chief washington correspondent james rosen to help me do that, james, no doubt you were watching and listening,

josh ernest says, that the 400 million is actually money iran had put into an account in 1979 for military equipment that was never rendered because the shah at that time was overturned. because he was ousted, that money sat in the bank all this time, i guess. which is interesting too because i understand that the 400 million was paid in foreign cash, so did it sit in the bank in what currency. there are a lot of questions my friend. you've been on the story, i'm interested first to get your take. >> harris, good afternoon. what you just heard from the white house press secretary josh earnest is essentially the administration's line here even though so many different things regarding iran were taking place more or less at the same time, they weren't all necessarily related. it is kind of a variation on the old question, who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes? at issue here is set of circumstances surrounding root

lease of four american hostages from iran back on january 17 of this year. they included pastor sayeed abedini, convert of christianity, seen arriving in north carolina. "washington post" reporter, jason recentian, and hekmati who chose to return to his apartment in tehran. the u.s. government says this story traces back, harris, to the days preceding more famous seizure of u.s. hostages in iran back in the late 1970s, when u.s. froze iranian assets including four million dollars sent to the pentagon negotiated with shah of iran prior to the islamic revolution. iran's claim to the money has been shaking its way through international courts ever since. officials said today, that the $400 million cash payment that the u.s. arranged in january on or about the very day that our hostages were freed from iran,

was only the first installment in the total payment of 1.7 billion, a bargain the state department claims, compared to the 10 billion that the iranians could have won in court. >> everybody has been up front and honest what happened here and why it happened and how it happened. oh, by the way, the teams that were negotiating release of our americans were completely separate team than was working in the hague tribunal to negotiate this claim, completely separate processes. simultaneously done timing all coincidental. reporter: cash payment and release of our hostages occurred almost exactly as the nuclear deal was being implemented. at same time u.s. released seven iranians convicted of violating sanction laws and iran released 10 navy sailors. critics. nuclear deal and obama administration overall policies between iran and terrorism said all the issues were hardly unrelated. >> it was a payment in exchange for the hostages. may have been a separate agreement, may have been negotiated in its technical

details by separate people, it was part of one big deal. reporter: since january, iran has detained at least two more iranian american citizens. harris. harris: i mean this is going to take supreme belief in coincidence if you will, james. i appreciate you setting it all up for us. reminding us of the human element at heart here. those americans who were captive, and the conversation now that ensues is the american public being told the truth? thank you, james. we appreciate it. reporter: you bet. harris: this is "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. we started with breaking news. we'll talk about it. dagen mcdowell, meghan mccain, republican strategist, lisa booth and today's #oneluckyguy, former cia covert operations officer mike baker. you are outnumbered. i feel a little bit though like maybe we're all-out numbered by the message that is coming out of the white house right now because i really want to try to understand how so many things

like a tumbler on a big lock that it would take an expert to pick, all fell into place just haphazardly at once? >> yeah. i spent that whole time watching josh ernest scraping cow pies off my shoes. he got three minutes of explanation and ran out of lipstick for the pig. no way they will be able to maintain this with a straight face over any period of time. we're not privy to all those negotiations that took place. so that's fair. we have to be careful how we speculate on that but this idea, i can tell you, my company is involved in various k and r issues and extortion issues, so we understand to some degree how this process works. doesn't matter what call it. doesn't matter whether we call it coins dinse. matters what the other side believes and how they perceive it and explain it to their people. iranian regime perceives it as ransom. that is how they explained it. we let the people go. look what we got. so that is the important part

here. harris: so the healthy skepticism in all of this, that would say, would it matter what it look to get americans back, what would you say to that? we wanted those americans home. of course they had been languishing, some of them for a very long time. so then, comes that other healthy skepticism of why then on the very weekday of iran deal going through, why then? >> because it was part of the structured deal that the iranians insisted on. harris: the problem with that would be? >> the problem perception of paying for hostages. other governments do it. a lot of other governments do it. harris: we say we don't do it. josh earnest said we don't do it. >> my point being common practice around the world, for governments and private organizations. particularly news organization. >> more common because we obviously paid a ransom for these four individuals, three more people have been arrested in iran who are just iranian americans. that is not including, who people, who have dual citizenship from other nations. >> right. >> can i hit on a few things in

terms of iran, basically under cover of night on unmarked cargo plane, pam let's of euros and swiss francs we had to work with central banks in switzerland and holland in order to put all this money together. that is number one. iranian negotiators on the prison exchange said they wanted the cash to show that they had gained something tangible. and the cash landed as soon as the americans left iran, and, the revolutionary guard commanders boasted that america had succumbed to iranian pressure. >> absolutely. harris: substantial, in the sense of, they were already getting so much money. they were already allowed to do more with their oil revenue. i don't understand. why do they need $400 million, the equivalent to it? >> because they have no access to kind of the world banking system. they do now, with the sanctions being relieved but certainly not american dollars. i want to push back on something, josh earnest said. listen he acts like this was

money due iran. harris: that is what he says. >> this was a case in front of the hague, the international court. this is a settlement that the obama administration negotiated. there is another $2 billion iran wants that is in new york banks. the supreme court said no. that money goes to victims of iranian-funded terrorism. harris: lisa in here. >> why should we believe anything that the obama administration is saying in the first place? ben rhodes, deputy national security advisor, has already bragged about key deceiving the media and public. why should we believe anything they say in the first place? secondly this is consistent with the obama administration's theme on foreign policy i look on foreign policy alienating our friends and bringing our enemies closer. bee end fromming our enemies. iran is country whose supreme leader said death to america. yet we reward them with $100 billion. this is the largest state sponsor of terrorism since 1984 yet we allow them and set them up to get a nuclear weapon in the next decade.

this is consistent with president obama, the obama administration's policies which is very troubling. >> so many things that josh earnest said, i apologize, are require pushback like you said. one of them being this idea somehow we know how they're spending their money. we don't know how they're spending their money. that is absurd statement. like we're vetting refugees pouring out of syria. harris: we have a hard time in our own government figuring out where the dollars are going. meghan: like a plot out of really bad movie, putting money together on a plane to be sent overnight. no rational person doesn't think this is not a ransom. we're funding terrorism. there is so much work by some good people in the military to try to stop islamic extreme hism. very difficult for me to talk about. >> think about that. meghan: think about all the men and women over the past eight years fought against this and we're giving $400 million apparently up to billions.

there is no rationale. you see josh earnest dance like a chicken right now trying to rationalize it. no way to do it. >> think about what you said. those are our tax dollars on a plane being sent to basically payoff terrorists. by the way hezbollah leaders in lebanon, all of sudden to circumvent new rules are getting paid in cash. >> hey, we saved you money, we might have had to pay billions as a result of international arbitration in the hague. so we saved you money. harris: what are conversations like, i wonder? you did the money trail, money tracking with those countries willing to let us wash the funding, if you will, launder the funding to make this happen, what are those conversations like? the bottom line though is, are there terrorists out there who getting awfully thirsty for money because this happened? >> secretary kerry admitted money would end up in terrorists hands. harris: or what was going to happen. i'm sure we'll come back to this at some point because it continues to make news.

it is bubbling over this morning. we'll cover it as it happens. politics too, donald trump is hitting back, calling president obama the worst president in our history, as we all watch together on fox news, yesterday, the president called trump unfit to be commander-in-chief. some of trump's staunch supportersfocus on main goal, beating hillary clinton in november. which strategy will work best for him? gop nominee refuses to endorse house spiker paul ryan or john mccain in upcoming primaries. whether pay back or a smart move, we'll talk about. of course senator mccain's daughter son the couch. >> what? harris: get ready for "outnumbered overtime" live on facebook. go to facebook.com/outnumberedfnc you can tweet with us too. top of the our when the tv version wraps up, we pop up live online. we'll see you after this break. i'm terrible at golf.

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♪ harris: welcome back to "outnumbered." donald trump is not taking criticism from president obama quietly. the president said trump was woefully unprepared and fit to serve in the oval office during his joint knew conference at the

white house with the prime minister of singapore. the prime minister had to sit there and watch. the gop nominee fired back on "the o'reilly factor." >> i think he is the worst president maybe in the history of our country. i think he has been a disaster. he has been weak. he has been ineffective. look a so-called recovery. it is setting record lows. i guess not since 1949 has there been anything like it. look at homeownership. look at what happened as an example. he talked about ukraine. i believe i know far more about foreign policy than he knows. harris: all of this as some of trump's staunchest supporters mike huckabee, newt gingrich on the list is urging trump to ignore the critics and focus on beating hillary clinton. >> he is the boxer in the ring. he has an opponent. let him throw his punches toward her. don't take, you know anything the heckers letters are saying to heart. leave it alone. walk away from it. he has a real fight on his hands. >> you have one person to beat,

hillary clinton. you beat hillary clinton you're president. you beat 23 other people and lose to hillary clinton you're not going to be president. focus on the main fight. harris: so, meghan, you think it is tempting to take on hillary clinton because there are areas donald trump feels like he can hit her on, or do you think it is off message and needs to be put back on track? meghan: a lot of different conversations in the media.t ofs campaign as well, about disgruntled staffers. all he has to do stay on message, hit hillary in the jugular over and over again. talk about the horrible economy. talk about failed obama policies of seven 1/2 years. we're ushering third term of but his campaign for whatever reason seems incan cable of doing that. harris: what about name-calling? is that baked into the game here? not a lot of people calling others the devil but it happens. dagen: if you're calling hillary clinton names you can go pretty far with that, that is what i think people expect from donald trump.

i said that earlier. harris: that is baked in for him. dagen: if he talking about hillary clinton, go after your opponent in the ring with you. stop going after your corner men. newt gingrich was on mornings with maria bartiromo today, and he said this is like joe montana when he went through a slump and throwing interception. i said no, it is not. this is the quarterback fumbling the ball because he is busy yelling at angry fan in the stands. he is not even focused on the game. he is worried about what the people in stands are saying about him. president obama and hillary clinton want this election to be a referendum on donald trump, and if he keeps stepping in it, that is what it could be. harris: told him that yesterday. >> if you're in campaign for hillary or in the dnc, or one of their advisors, all you will be doing is strategizing and coming up with ways during the course of next 2 1/2, three months, getting him to come outside and do something crazy, do something stupid. react in the manner. they're bating him and will continue bating him because they

know so far it worked. harris: here is what we're not talking about today, hillary clinton. >> exactly. harris: she has sore spots, clinton foundation. funds looked at. more emails in the recent hacking. a lot of talk about where the hacking may have happened and so on so forth. dagen: lying to the american people repeatedly. harris: we're not talking about her at all, really. we're concentrating on him. there is a corner of media relations in the world, just get name right. >> exactly. would be nice to see him focus on hillary clinton, even if just for a minute. what i have told candidates for the past, reporters can't print what you don't say, right? you need to be careful. harris: some of them do. >> some of them do. harris: ben rhodes was counting on it. >> make it easy on them there's certainly going to do it. as far as making this referendum on president obama that is also needed because hillary clinton is essentially running to be extension of president obama's failed policies. although he won in 2008 and 2012, you look at historic rejection american voters given

his policies. look throughout his presidency. over 900 state legislature seats, 69 house seats, 13 senate seats and 12 governors races. flipping 30 state legislatures across the country. those are historic losses result of president obama's failed policies. he needs to make it referendum on failed policies and failed policies hillary clinton continued. >> you lost the voters at that point. >> not on issues. they care about obamacare and regulation. they care about failed -- >> you do that i think you lose. harris: -- people say they can't live with obamacare. that story we're not talking about. meghan: we don't have that much time left. this is the endgame. came in talking to one of our lovely crew people here, i am petrified we're going to lose this because we can't keep our eye on the ball. everything you said, give it to donald trump. >> i would love to. meghan: 100% on tv all day, every day. this isn't that hard. dagen: our economy has grown

2.1% since expansion started. what have we gotten for our debt in this country doubling to almost $20 trillion? slowest growth since 1949 at least. we have gotten people who are upset. harris: credibility on issue you are talking about. he can make commensurate comparison to a business, i aassume. dagen: anybody who insults what he is worried about. not worried about overarching figure. he is not a politician. if you know what, if you're running to be president of the united states you want to be politician. >> if anybody wants to know how low the election has gotten and sunk in american politics and why so frustrating why they should do much better, replay the obama press conference with the head of state from singapore and understand how awful it is our president would get involved in that, answer questions like that, put singapore head of state in that position and hope for the singaporean to say something against trump. that is as low as i ever seen politics. harris: prime minister lee just stood there as i said.

well, very interesting. new signs after rift between donald trump and fellow republicans. you heard meghan mccain talk about briefly. we'll get into more after he failed to endorse speaker ryan and senator mccain in upcoming primaries. why this may be payback and what it says about trump's relationship with his party. you didn't read your car insurance policy. you just stuck it in a drawer somewhere and forgot about it. until a dump truck hit your pickup truck and now you need a tow truck. does your policy cover the cost of a tow truck? who knows? you didn't read it. you can't even find it. the liberty mutual app with coverage compass™ makes it easy to know what you're covered for and what you're not. call liberty mutual for a free quote today at coverage compass™ gives you the policy information you need at a glance. available 24/7 on your mobile device.

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♪ dagen: looks like new tension between donald trump and his own party after the go. op nominee failed to endorse house speaker paul ryan and senator john mccain in their upcoming primaries. telling the post, i like paul but these are horrible times for our country. we need very strong leadership. we need, very, very strong leadership and i'm not quite there yet, i'm not quite there yet. but speaker ryan's team firing back, quote, neither speaker

ryan nor anyone on his team ever asked for donald trump's endorsement. we're confident in a victory next week regardless. meghan, i want to go to you, because he went after your father again. i said i have never been there with john mccain because i always felt he should have done much better job for the vets. he has not done a good job for the vets. i always felt he should have done a much better job. >> i can't answer you as analyst but i can answer as daughter. as a daughter, answer you as daughter first. my first two brothers had multiple deployments to iraq and afghanistan other places. i can't say on television, i don't know. and they served with honor while his sons were doing reality television shows. so being told that my family doesn't understand war and veterans and veterans issues breaks my heart. i'm granddaughter and great granddaughter of two navy admirals. my family understands veterans issues. this first time in my entire life my family's service in this country questioned.

as analyst i would like donald trump stop shooting inside the tent. we need united front. both paul ryan and my father showed, i don't understand defending a gold star mother is warranted to rescind your endorsement. harris: i heart you, meghan mccain. meghan: very difficult. over the weekend i helped my father put together statement about gold star mother of the khans. i am no better than any other military family. there are millions of americans and families gone through this, but i know what it is like to watch my earth bros deploy and think they're going to die, not come back. i know what that feels like. the trumps do not. dagen: mike, i want to ask you, i will reference, donald trump tweeted about this issue some hours ago, i think seven or eight hours ago. this is the actual tweet that he put out. there is great unity in my campaign, perhaps greater than ever before. i want to thank everyone for your tremendous support. beat crooked h, exclamation point. >> yeah. this is same problem we talked

about in the previous segment, lack of discipline. and that is troubling. honestly, really don't have a dog in the hunt on this one. i wish we could push the reset button and go back and start this whole process over again but i will say, i think that this is just the same issue that we're going to be facing. he is not going to change. personality doesn't change. we're going to be dealing with this throughout the rest of this process. we'll ask why can't the campaign stay focused. why does he have to react to everything. why can he not as you pointed out deliver some unity here and focus? >> i think the big point donald trump continues to miss here, this is one of the biggest concerns i have for his canada sir, the fact he needs the republican party. he does not have the operational structure to win a general election right now. he absolutely needs the republican national committee, who has the built-in infrastructure to win this election. honestly republicans need donald trump to do well at top of the ticket because it helps down ballot and senators running

for re-election, helps the house candidates. helps down ballot. there is mutual need relationship here he continues to miss. dagen: this is actually something that democrats are worried about. even if hillary clinton wins presidency, if, they're worried about voters voting republican all the way down the rest of the ballot to offset her lefty liberal crazy ideas, that she is espoused over the last years. harris: the fact she is disliked in the polling as donald trump is. that they are also dealing with same issues of likability or unlikability. third parties filed for pennsylvania presidential ballot. that is huge news today. that was breaking. why do they feel like they can have that in road? they know there is segment of voters, something call each other, themselves independents, some are undecided, are both, who feel dissatisfied with both these candidates. donald trump has opportunity here. the question, will he take it? >> most of america feels dissatisfied. harris: i would have thought pennsylvania where hillary

clinton's family grew up in scranton would be in play. meghan: attacks kelly ayote, senator from new hampshire, amazing strong, conservative woman, whose husband is in the senate. hard enough to get young women to join the republican party as it is. shooting inside of the tent one of great conservative women serving in congress is hard. dagen: one of half a dozen republican senators, a woman. disturbing new information about isis as elite government map shows the group expanding, operating in three times as many countries as it was two years ago. what needs to be done to stop the terror group. plus -- >> director comey said my answers were truthful and what i have said is consistent with what i have told the american people. dagen: hillary clinton defending her use of a private email server and in that big interview on "fox news sunday" but "the washington post" giving her four pinocchios for that answer. so where is the outrage from the rest of the mainstream media

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an expert allstate agent. it's good to be in, good hands. ♪ meghan: "new york times" coming under fire after failing to cover the uproar over hillary clinton's "fox news sunday" interview, specifically her claim fbi director james comey said, she was quote, truthful about her handling of classified information which the left-leaning "washington post" gave it four pinocchios. they didn't see it at all. clinton's emails are subject they covered aggressively and will continue to do so. we were talking before the break about the liberal media. this is one of the most egregious examples wanting to cover for her. >> there is absolute bias. evident in research. evidence in studies. we know there is bias against republicans. that is certainly the case, most specifically this election cycle

but reality hillary clinton spent $140,000 out of her on pocket to set up private email server and email to circumvent congress and circumvent future foy yow! requests. reality if she was republican candidate or no way we would have major nominee went to that extent to essentially undermine congress and future foia requests. no way the media would allow it. dagen: in terms of "new york times" coverage of the clinton campaign, opening paragraph after she accepted nomination. who sacrificed personal ambition for her husband's lit call career and rose to be globally influential figure, became the first woman to accept a major party's presidential nomination on thursday night, a prize that generations of american women have dreamed about for one of their own. >> tearing up now. >> makes you warm and fuzzy. dagen: only sacrifice, dreamed. harris: only thing "the times"

was missing, the only thing that "the times" was missing was to put a ring on it. [laughter] dagen: it is quite the love affair, isn't it. >> no surprise, no shock on anybody's part, much of the media paid no attention to this at all. i don't understand why people are shock and awe at that notion. the bias is obvious. we all talked about it. it is clear. there are a don't even know where to go with story, other than to say, of course. harris: troubling part for hillary she is bating she really can not bait. she does not want to continue to say i was completely truthful and he said i was about james comey. there is still information we don't have about the investigation. they still may press in to see, you know if she lied along the way. it may not be over for her. dagen: maybe she was truthful in the actual fbi interview, because if you lie to investigators -- >> methodically lied to the american people essentially everything pertaining to the

private email server and email. if we can't trust her with something simple as email. how can we trust her to see oversee the world's largest nuclear pow arsenal and world's largest nuclear power. meghan: i don't know how to answer that. how isis reach has exploded threefold in size and where. has made me the happiest humanoid in the galaxy. just push this button. (whisper) rocket see star trek beyond in theatres. jen stops working, but her aleve doesn't. hey mom! because aleve can last 4 hours longer than tylenol 8 hour. what will you do with your aleve hours? i wanti did my ancestrydna and where i came from. and i couldn't wait to get my pie chart. the most shocking result was that i'm 26% native american.

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♪ harris: growing concerns now about the global expansion of the islamic state savages. nbc news has obtain ad map from the national counterterrorism center showing a threefold increase in the number of places where the terror army now operates. state department documents from 2014, when the american military began the campaign to stop isis shows the group was operating in just seven nations. now the map shows the terrorists are fully operational in 8:00 teen countries and taking root in six more we're told today -- 18. plus they have the areas, mike, libya and boko haram, people are pledging allegiance. isis on the ground anyway. >> right. harris: we just heard we are deploying from the air hits on libya. so you have got that going on. what is the strategy exactly at this point? >> i don't think anyone is quite identified the strategy.

it has been a stalemate strategy for some time. to be fair we're making head roads and gains in syria and iraq. we've been shutting down some of their revenue streams and taking out some of their leaders but nowhere near as aggressive as it needs to be to finally close that down. what we're seeing administration come out in the past, recent past, talked about how all these various attacks, talking about brussels or orlando or anywhere else. harris: paris. >> all these attacks are an indication of somehow isis is in its death throes, last stages of life. harris: why do they believe that? >> they have to try to put a positive spin on this thing. reality, we've seen this playbook before. we have to, we have to take them out in syria and iraq. we have to finally shut down that territorial gain they have made. we have to stop that, but, we have to be pragmatic and understand we have seen this before. the fact they're reaching out and attacking in the west. doesn't mean they're desperate. that means they're doing what

they do. they adapt and morph. there are six or seven failed states in the middle east now. they have been moving into africa. groups as you pointed out, declaring their allegiance, accounts for some of the growth we're seeing on this map. harris: right. >> but it doesn't show that they're desperate. it shows they always adapt. we saw it after we went into tora bora. we saw what al qaeda did after we started to get after them. they flattened out, put more responsibility out to individual cells. this is what they're going to be doing. harris: ambassador john bolton told me on the air this is like the worst game of "whack-a-mole." saw it with former clinton administration and other administrations, you pound them in the ground in one area, pop up in another. they have a place where they can mass. raqqa, syria, they have a nesting hole for the scorpion i don'ts to train. that is just what you said. >> tora bora, was great tactical operation.

it deviated into nation-building which was somewhat insane but, a individual i know, former tank driver for the russian army, who had been in afghanistan during the soviet occupation there, grabbed me, literally looked at me, i was overseas at time, he shook me by the shoulders, he said that was great. that is wonderful what you did. don't stay. don't stay. they're like cockroaches. you step on them, you step on them here, they show up over here. world of jihaddism and muslim extremism, it is generational issue, not going away in our time. when we finally defeat in syria and iraq, we have to be realistic what we're facing. harris: they have a long game. it is really long. that is what generals told me. olympic uniforms for team usa are here. notice anything strange about the image on the t-shirt? a lot of people say it looks like the flag of a rival country. how could that happen? ♪ your car got rear-ended

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♪ harris: you have not lived until you have seen mike baker get down. >> do a cover version of a beatles song. harris: uniforms of team usa wearing during the opening ceremonies of the olympics are

stirring controversy and they haven't even been worn in public yet. notice anything about the threads designed by ralph lauren? a lot of people point out the pattern on the shirt looks awful lot like the russian flag. this is not the first time team usa outfits came under fire. back in 2012 revealed, american outfits were made in china. dagen, you're chomping at the bit. dagen: i am. one, i i have a maximum level of outrage i have kind of reached, at least in this hour. i can't really get upset about this. the most horrific thing about these outfits they still have the polo player on them. can the american people name one person they know who actually plays polo? it is the olympics. can it be, who is the, who is the gymnast, simone beil. can be independent imagine of olympic athlete, rather than a polo player. harris: i wonder whether or not

it was ralph himself on the horse as polo player and that is why -- i don't know. >> maybe why he likes it so much. harris: your thoughts, mike? >> another indication, clearly trump is being influenced by vladmir putin and somehow -- harris: what? you're -- >> yeah, i'm being sarcastic. i agree. i have a limited amount of outrage. with all the planning goes into the olympic uniforms, we all know how much that is, right, we could get it right. i would like to say i have a strong opinion about this i used up all my strong opinions. >> look like a weird cast of some weird tv show on the wb. amazing american athletes. can they look like cool renegades? we're america! >> ralph, how hard can this possibly be. had this in 2012. again now. come on, man, get it right. come on, dude. harris: what i really love we have gotten to the point of the show where lisa booth calls

ralph lauren by his first name. >> we're bestties. i wish. harris: thank you. >> i loved the show. harris: we're staying here for "outnumbered overtime" on the web. facebook.com/outnumberedfnc for facebook live. "happening now" right now. this money exchange tied to release of american prisoners? shock as a passenger jet catches fire after crash with 300 people on board. also with wildfires raging in multi