bush and obama administrations, gillian turner, and today's #oneluckyguy, we have a first time on "outnumbered," former army green beret officer and veteran of three tours of duty in afghanistan, bill collins is here. ben, rather, excuse me. i was going to say your outnumbered, but i think you're used to it. >> certainly at home. i've got a wife and two girls, and all of our pets are actually -- [laughter] i'm definitely outnumbered. >> you're at home. >> i am. i've got a 2-year-old boy, and i'm trying to get him to back me up, but it's not working. harris: he knows where his bread is buttered, so he goes to mom. forgive my flub, i know that you're ben, and i'm glad that you're here. >> thank you. i'm excited to be here. harris: let's get to it. 100 days and counting -- actually fewer than that now -- until americans will vote for president. and hillary clinton is leading donald trump by ten points. trump's republican allies reportedly urging him to focus on job number one, beating

hillary clinton in november, and not to get sidetracked birdies piewts with his critics. former mayor and former presidential candidate rudy giuliani was on hannity. >> we can defend him against people who are coming after him from this side and that side. he should focus on exactly the things that you're talking about, why this country can't take four years of hillary clinton. harris: so the question is, does donald trump believe he needs some sort of campaign reset? stumping in battleground state of florida before huge crowds there, trump said things have never been better. >> the campaign is doing really well. it's never been so well united. we started on june 16th. i would say right now it's the best in terms of being united that it's been since we began. we're doing incredibly well. harris: and this undeniably big news for trump and the republican national committee. he just all but null tide hillary clinton's fundraising

advantage. donald trump pulled in $82 million last month, mostly in the form of small donations. and it is that big number be, ben, that people look at, because it's kind of barack obama-like, if you will. remember, he could get lots of little -- that means you can go back to those people time and time again. >> it is. and this is a movement. i think that's what certainly a lot of washington, d.c. and some of the coastal if you look at l.a. and new york, certainly d.c. just never got this is a movement. and i think that those numbers right now are showing that, you know, as much as the media's pouncing on mr. trump for all the things that he's saying -- and a lot of it hasn't been, you know, the best choice of words whatsoever -- the reality is there's a part of america, 75 percent of america lives in a rural part, and that part of america hasn't been listened to for years. those are the ones, i think, that are sending in these small donations that are giving him a boost that we just, you know, they're shocked to see it in d.c. harris: ben, i don't want to miss the obvious with you, so before we go around the couch, i

want to ask you from a military perspective how you look at donald trump. we saw a man give him his purple heart on stage a couple of days ago. so from your perspective. >> certainly. what donald represents, i think, to a lot of people is a last chance, right? if you look at a lot of people certainly within that part of america that hasn't had a voice, you know, they're the ones that voted for, you know, bush and romney and mccain and did what they were supposed to do, but nothing be ever changed for them. so this for them is kind of that last hope. and i think from a military perspective, you know, we want three things. we want a leader, and you better be clear and predictable in your goals. i think trump has been very bold, certainly, as a candidate. what he is lacking, i think, in some capacity is just having that clear message and predictability. and for the military personnel, i think they want to see that. but, you know, i've seen polls that certainly within the military they prefer trump over clinton just because it's, you know, i think we've had too much of a history with the clintons. harris: i'm getting a lot of

nonverbal from monica crowley right now, just nodding. what do you think? monica: i completely agree with you. donald trump is riding the tiger. he might understand the tiger to a certain degree, but i don't think anybody has a handle yet on the major realignments that are happening in the united states and across the western world. witness the brexit vote, for example. so there are these cross-currents that are happening, and trump is riding this momentum. the question is whether or not he can sustain it. i think when you look back at his acceptance speech, he did have a very simple message of law and order, economic populism, strong national defense and defeating a corrupt and rigged system. the question is, can he sustain those themes -- strong national defense and the economy and jobs -- through november without his tendency to go down these rabbit holes and kind of lose focus. because when he loses focus, his supporters lose focus, the media loses focus, and he ends up at a disadvantage. harris: well, one thing is for sure, you talk about his supporters, some of them do.

i mean, when you look at the video from florida and you have people lining up for that town hall yesterday at the ocean center in daytona beach, they were clearly focused on him. what are your thoughts, gillian? gillian: i was just thinking about the fundraising piece and i think, yes, the campaign has overcome tremendous hurdles. i think it was as recently as may that they had a million dollars in the bank account, in the checking account. so they've made huge strides, but i just want to still point out to people the big picture is still a significant lag. i mean, the projections coming out from both sides of the aisle right now put him overall at the end of the day having about half a billion dollars less than the clinton campaign. that's an even bigger hurdle to overcome. and i think that while he continues to attract small-scale donors which is hugely important, he still has tofigure which is the big party donors. i don't think he can do it without them, the meg whitman endorsements and fundraising by the koch family, folks who have all -- harris: interesting. i mean, traditionally that might

have been true, but we saw donald trump defy all the odds that you just talked about in the primary season and even with hillary spending so much money in battleground states, they're still relatively close. now, this new fox polling shows a double-digit spread for the first time really. now you've got two convention bounces and a rough week, arguably, for both of them. neither one of them had a great week because you had a lot of stuff going on. but about the money, talk to me about the money. julie: first of all, she's been spending money already, and we can't underestimate how important that is. she's been on the air in the battleground states. he has not, and that's interesting because that's not only solidified her supporters, but more importantly defined him before he can define himself. so he has to play catch up starting in september. look, august is a dead time -- harris: is it? i've heard that. julie: it is, especially this year. the olympics are going on, people go on vacation. so let's just say that he's going to really have to go up on tv in a strong way in september

in places like pennsylvania where there's a senate race and places like ohio where there's a senate race to compete with and florida, certainly, where there's a senate race to compete with. the reason she's had the airwaves to herself for so long is very effective for her, and that's something you have to bear in mind. harris: i love you to pieces, and they've got to fix your microphone. they're going to give you new batteries. julie: they've silenced me. harris: never. [laughter] we would never do that. let's, one more thought from you, ben, before we move on. you're talking about these small donations from people and just how many people this really speaks to. 82 million across -- that's millions of people potentially. so what it does communicate, i would imagine, to his adversaries, his opponents would be -- i'm sure many of them are loving -- but his opponents is that, you know, this is a bigger thing than we thought. you called it a movement. we hadn't really heard those words against hillary clinton since the days of bernie sanders. >> with trump a day is a long time, much less a week, much

less all the way to november. it's going to come down to what's going to happen between now and november and who's going to get out that vote, get their people to come out to the polls. that's going to make the difference. harris: interesting. meanwhile, that new fox poll also offers up some possible encouragement for the trump campaign. it shows the republican nominee is beating hillary clinton on two top issues. i can't wait to ask monica about this. the economy and defeating the islamic state savages. trump is leading clinton on the economy by five points and leading by nine points on who voters trust more to destroy the islamic state savages. i said it twice in two paragraphs. [laughter] i know, a thumb's up because people love it when i call them that for some reason. monica: what's interesting about this is mrs. clinton is walking a very fine line. on the one hand, she served as chief steward of american foreign policy for four years as secretary of state, so she can't put that much distance between herself and the president's record, for obvious reasons. on the same hand, the american people are living this economy on the ground every day, and

they're living the escalating national security threat on the ground every day. we just had another presumably terror attack on the streets of london. the american people know that the threat is already here -- harris: an american woman was killed in that and ores injured -- others injured. monica: that is correct. trump's argument is we've tried it your way, mrs. clinton, and it's been a dismal failure. and if he sticks to those two themes, you know, usually jobs and the economy are the number one issue for most voters, and that is also true this year. but this year also national security is running even as the most important issue. julie: can i jump in on what monica said because i think it's so relevant? you just made an incredible pitch for why donald trump should be the next president. you know who's not making that pitch? donald trump. he's too busy going after paul ryan, john mccain, gold star families. harris: what's the pitch? >> stick to the status quo. if you're unhappy, look at donald trump.

the problem is that donald trump is not making that pitch. gillian: i would just add to what julie said, there's a big, gaping hole in the form of a plan to fight isis, right? harris: by the obama administration. gillian: no, no, by the trump campaign. they've staunchly refused to put forward their plans to fight isis. while i understand from an emotional point of view americans might rally behind what donald trump is saying, his stump speech on the issue is very powerful. harris: interesting. gillian: but there's nothing to back it up right now. harris: the obama administration too is missing that overarching plan, because president obama said a couple of months ago we don't have a complete strategy. libya, you know, some people -- ambassador bolton likens it to whack-a-mole. you're going to what can them there, and -- whack them there, and they're going to pop up somewhere else. is it an fund for donald trump to stand p and say i am going to give you some meats and bones? >> i think so.

i haven't seen a plan for 15 years, from the day we started. here we are with more ground than the taliban have had since -- harris: and you would know. >> the thing i took from that poll is, you know, they both had the same untrustworthy numbers, but people chose the resumé of hillary clinton, and they said the temperament of hillary clinton. so trump can't do anything about his resumé in terms of having 40 years of, you know, government qualification. and the question was is somebody qualified, is trump or hillary more qualified to be president. he can do something about his temperament. i think if he can reel it in, stay on message and start presenting these plans as gillian said, we could see it turn around. harris: real quickly, monica, if you tweak it too much, then you're not the genuine person that people have fallen in love with. monica: right. he is an unconventional, unorthodox candidate, and that has gotten him the republican nomination. i think when it comes to national security issues, it is true that he doesn't have the experience. but the one thing that he is projecting that is attracting so

many voters to him is leadership and strength. and that's, that is the kind of thing he should be projecting when he's talking about the national security threats that are growing under the current president. harris: all right. glad you're here. this is fun. all right. new fallout from reports that the u.s. paid iran $400 million in foreign bills which coincided, they say, with the release of american hostages after that controversial nuclear deal. now the justice department wants answers as well, because the doj actually rejected that payment. so somebody overruled the doj. how did that happen? and slightly different narratives coming from donald trump and his running mate on several headline-making issues. is that on purpose? is vice presidential nominee mike pence trying to refocus the trump campaign? and can't get enough "outnumbered"? go digital with us at 1 p.m. eastern. our page is called outnumbered fnc on facebook, and our live

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monica: new fallout from the report that the u.s. made a secret cash payment to iran back in january that coincided with the release of american hostages. now "the wall street journal" is reporting that officials at the justice department were not happy with the timing or the manner of the $400 million payment. but the state department reportedly overruled the doj's concerns. officials still insist that the money exchange had nothing to do with the release of those american hostages. but some lawmakers want answers. house oversight committee chairman jason chaffetz has called secretary of state john kerry to appear at a hearing about the money transfer. while others say it looks a lot like a ransom payment. listen. >> this was clearly a ransom payment to release those hostages. i and many others have been sharply critical of the president more not negotiating the release of -- for not be negotiating the release of these

hostages before he even sat down at the table to talk about the nuclear deal. i suspect he wanted to have these hostages gone even though the price of it was $400 million in small, unmarked bills flying into iran on a unmarked aircraft like it was a drug cartel transaction. monica: well, certainly looks like a ransom payment to me based on the timing then. what's curious to me is that if there's one international entity that this administration has supported without reservation over the last seven and a half years, it's the iranian regime. it refused to back the iranian people in 2009 when they were in revolt against the regime. you have the nuclear deal which sets them on a glide path toward a nuclear weapon. you have this kind of ransom payment, the administration refusing to push back against their presence in iraq. you've been to these places, you though the enemy firsthand. what is your sense of what this administration did here? >> well, they set us up for failure in the future, in my opinion. i mean, there's no way -- this money be was, we froze in '79.

it's literally been that long. and just for fun i actually counted it up, and it's like 13,000 days since we took that money. it's not a coincidence that the one day we send this money over through, with euros and francs in the middle of the night on a palette on a gulfstream -- harris: it sounds like a james bond movie. it's almost stolen. monica: going to the enemy? >> yeah, exactly. look at all the people that we're going against right now. you look at the assad regime, they're supporting the assad regime and what's happening in syria. they've killed almost 500,000 of their own civilians. iran was behind overthrowing the government, or trying to, in yemen. but more importantly, the iranians were directly responsible with killing friends of mine. my son's middle name is after a friend of mine i lost in iraq that was killed by an efp, an explosively-formed projectile.

we're literally supporting somebody that it's knot just a theoretical enemy. these are people who have directly killed americans and our men and women in uniform and that's, to me, deplorable. monica: gillian, to ben's point, doesn't this put a bounty on the head of every american if they know they can get $100 million per american, doesn't that put us all at risk? gillian: i'm just as critical of this payment closeout as the two of you are. i was tremendously critical of the iran nuclear deal because of the substance of the deal. i don't think this was a ransom payment, and i think it's important to distinguish between the two. the reason i don't think it was was because this prisoner exchanged was hugely unbalanced in january when it took place. the iranian regime released four american hostages -- i call them hostages because they were being -- harris: well, they called themselves hostages. gillian: in exchange, we

released seven iranians who were legally detained inside this country and stopped extra diction for 21 -- 14 others, so a total of 21. we didn't need $400 million to sweeten the deal. what i worry about is the optics of $1.4 billion that we've agreed in a payment to the iranian regime coinciding with the timing, that's the optics that bother mess. julie: is it the optics that bother you or -- so what bothers you? >> both. julie: to me, the optics are horrible, they will always be horrible with the iranians. the question to me is this: it's not like we hadn't traded -- and you right, this wasn't a hostage exchange. it's not like we haven't traded for hostages before. we certainly did during the reagan administration. so the question to me is, this is money that the hague or whoever in the the netherlands, whatever entity decided they were entitled to. therefore, do we leave our american hostages in tehran or wherever they were being held in

the worst conditions possible, or do we trade for them with money that apparently the iranians were already entitled to? harris: there were years of courts that winter through the -- that went through the fact that they were not entitled to that money, which was why they hadn't gotten it yet. and to your point, gillian, just because they made a bad deal doesn't mean it wasn't a deal for ransom. you're absolutely right. the 21 that were this process, the seven that were behind bars, you're right, that's kind of like bowe bergdahl for the five taliban commanders. what price do you put on an american life? we're just talking specifically about the timing. many of us met jason rezaian. such a blessing, that's not the point. but the timing is stinky. >> and the iranians themselves have said to their own people it was a ransom -- julie: of course they did. gillian: even if you assume, excuse me, it wasn't a ransom

payment, my point is it still is bad. that's what i'm trying to say. i personally don't believe it was. month car. this administration is trying to tell us the 400 million is not going to be plowed back into the support of terrorism. okay, moving on. a new dynamic may be emerging in the 2016 race. why some say mike pence is taking the lead in unifying republicans after a bumpy week for donald trump. we'll talk about all that and more. plus, hillary clinton appearing to stoke some fear of donald trump as a way to unify democrats. is that a good strategy, or is she trying to distract from her own record? coming up. ♪ ♪ for lower back pain sufferers,

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doing that? indiana governor pence has endorsed ryan's re-election bid and though trump has said he's not there yet. watch. >> i strongly endorse paul ryan's re-election. he's a longtime friend, he's a strong conservative leader. harris: on sunday pence also released a statement commending captain khan's service after controversy erupted over trump's comments about his parents. and last week after trump called on russia to find hillary clinton's missing e-mails, pence warned that there would be, quote, serious consequences if russia was interfering in u.s. elections. i'm going to come to you, ben, on this and just get your thoughts. >> well, look, the reality is when i look at this, i feel like trump is still fighting a primary, and he doesn't have to fight a primary anymore. he won the primary. he has to start thinking about the general election, and that has to be a pivot in, certainly, messaging. i don't believe these reports that i see that come out that say, you know, the campaign is just, you know, it's imploding and it's all disaster, because i think most of that's going to come from the left media who

just jumps every time, you know, they just love to get that. but i do think we have to see it come from, you know, donald trump. i don't think they're going to be able to get away with governor pence being the one constantly coming out and saying, well, what we really meant. harris: you know what's interesting about what you're saying? yesterday we were reporting the word "intervention" was being used, and by the end of the day, i had so much blowback from other journalists who have known me my whole life, my whole career and on social media about where is that word coming from. so john roberts was on with us a little bit yesterday, and i'm hearing him talk, and i'm thinking, let me check yahoo!.com. the headlines, that word was there, like, 50 times. normally i would say, no, there's no way that people are just kind of putting that word in there. i started to have some real doubts yesterday. and then to see donald trump with those two huge crowds this florida, then i'm thinking, okay, what was really going on with what was being reported? julie: but crowds don't equal support.

harris: no, but he stayed focused. julie: he stayed focused on everything he shouldn't stay focused on. when you can't have mike pence as the adult in the room baby sitting -- monica: is that what you think is happening? i don't think they needed an intervention. i think donald trump saw polling and the significant be bounce mrs. clinton got out of her convention and said, holy smokes, i better focus on the economy, jobs and national security. harris: but that didn't get reported. monica: it didn't, but once it was out in the bloodstream, now there's no need for an intervention at this moment. harris: interesting. month -- monica: typically, the vice presidential pick is the attack dog. this time around it's flipped. once again, totally unconventional. harris: well, who's to say that won't work though? why does everybody think they have a better idea when he's beaten -- i don't know with, i'm just asking. gillian: it's not also just to, when we talk about who's the

kind of defender of the base and who's the attack dog, it's not so much with trump and pence a matter of personalities and who can take more. i mean, one of the most interesting narratives to me about whole election cycle so far has been how different they are on foreign policy. as someone who really is focused on foreign policy and national security issues, there's a biggie vied between the two of them -- big divide between the two of them. what's going to be interesting to see is how they can fuse be their two disparate viewpoints -- harris: julie? julie: first of all, everybody needs to get on the same page. once every two weeks we sit on this couch and trump may have had a moment where he stayed on message, and everybody says, oh, this is the pivot, this is it. [laughter] and lo and behold, i think i have a dollar bet that within the next 24 hours donald trump is going to come out and say something completely incendiary, off message that's going to throw not just independents and democrats and a lot of republicans, but a lot of people this washington who i hate to

say, you may hate the washington establishment, you need them to get -- harris: so does mike pence make up the difference? >> i don't think so. but, look, this to me is also, i mean be, trump likes to win. trump likes to win. he hates to lose. harris: well, for the record, most of us do. >> of course. [laughter] you look at the comments he made and every time he made a comment months ago when he made the comment about senator mccain, i thought, well, that's it. it's all going to come collapsing down. not at all. i think for the first time he's seen his numbers really take a hit, and i think this is going to be that moment where he realizes, okay, what i was doing before everybody said it wasn't going to work -- julie: here's the rob, and i truly believe this. i think he has a pathological need to talk about himself. he needs to insert himself into every story. he should be talking about the economy, its effect be on the middle class. he should be talking about national security and its effect on the american people. but he can't help himself. he needs to to constantly bring it back himself, and until he

gets over that pathological need, there's no way -- monica: and that is something that i've been talking about that this campaign cannot be about donald trump, it's got to be about america. hold that thought. political analysts say democrats are uniting not so much around hillary clinton, but the a shared fear of donald trump. clinton and running mate tim kaine both fueling that fear on the campaign trail, arguing that their opponent would not only be a bad president, but would also do irreparable damage to the united states and citing the tone of the republican conventin to make their case. >> i personally think that donald trump poses a serious threat to our democracy. >> i was saying it was kind of dark and pessimistic, and some people said, wow, that's a dark picture of the united states. and i said, no, that wasn't a picture of the united states. that was a self-guided tour through the mind of donald j. trump, and that's a scary place to be. [laughter]

>> there is no doubt in my mind that donald trump is unqualified to be president and unfit to be commander in chief. [cheers and applause] month month so, ben, here is the irony as i see it. coming out of the republican convention mrs. clinton and the democrats were criticizing donald trump and the republicans for running a dark, fear-based campaign, and yet now mrs. clinton seems to be adopting that kind of fear-based messaging that, oh, you don't want donald trump, he's an unknown quantity, he's a cowboy, we don't know what he's going to do. the american people have very legitimate worries and concerns and, frankly, fears whether it's isis or weakening economy maybe going into a recession. what's your view of the clinton approach right now in terms of the campaign? >> well, i think you hit it on the head. the fact is they want to talk about what is going to be scary if this happens, if trump is president. what they don't want to talk about, let's talk about how scary it is over the last ten years of our policies and certainly under obama.

the middle class hasn't seen a wage rise in 15 years. corporate profits are up almost 200%, wages up 3.4. we've turned policemen into bad people. we have almost regular terrorist attacks in this country. you look at the economy overall, our security situation overall, let's not talk about the last eight or ten years in this country, because that would be an admonishment on hillary prest obama and hillary who wants a third -- monica: and, or julie, isn't it true she can't run on her record? julie: i keep saying this and everybody laughs at me, but in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, and in this case, she's the one-eyed man. harris: we laugh because that visual is really scary. [laughter] julie: but it happens to be true in this case. look, the thing that she's doing that he's not doing is she's not going to talk about it, he should be talking about it. you just laid out a great argument for donald trump. he's not laying it out himself,

so she's taking the vacuum which he's created by scaring the bejesus out of people and telling them under this unstable autocrat, this is what the world is going to look like. instead of him focusing on issues, in which case he probably would be a lot further ahead, he's taking the bait and defending himself. why would he do this as opposed to turning it around on her or? he has nobody around him who can tell him what to do. harris: actually, he does have some good people behind him. julie: who? harris: what are those conversations like, we don't know because we're not inside the campaign. but the law and order talk and the security talk that came out post post the rnc convention per mainly donald trump, she had to bend to that. the police union that came out against be her and then one and then two of them based on some things she had said previously. i mean, she had to answer back on that. that was necessary. and, yes, it mimicked what he did because it worked. he got a six, seven-point in some polling bounce out of that. of course she did.

monica: and how do you expect, gillian, donald trump to push back on this? the whole argument that he is an unknown quantity and that people ought to be afraid of the kind of leadership he would exert? how do you expect him to counter that? gillian: sort of fear of the unknown? if i was an adviser to donald trump, i would advise him to put forth as much substantive detail as he possibly can. you have ideas about how you want to fight isis, how you want to degrade and ultimately -- harris: but he doesn't -- [inaudible conversations] so how do you do that? gillian: every presidential candidate from, you know, the dawn of time has been able to put forth real plans -- harris: except for president obama who told us he would never put boots on the ground, so now the enemy already knows that. gillian: for example, of the issues that were important to president obama, we knew how he was going to handle them. we knew he was going to make closing guantanamo bay a priority from day one. he laid out how he was going to do it. so the point being when these issues are really important to candidates, there's a way to

give people enough information to have confidence in you without giving away -- monica: perhaps that's mike pence's job. maybe his job to go out, steady the ship, reassure the republican base, but also project certainty and predictability. julie: who's got their finger on the nuclear button, mike pence or donald trump? harris: that is that ever been an issue in anybody's lifetime? julie: it certainly is when donald trump is out there saying -- harris: i want to go to you on this. i've not heard a president say, well, you know, i took out the football, and i had to -- [laughter] >> look -- [inaudible conversations] harris: you're going to have a whole cabinet. i mean, it's not -- >> you asked in my lifetime, i don't think so. however, if i do remember my history classes correct, i think during the cuban missile crisis, that was about the closest point to where we came to actually somebody pressing that button. so my concern with trump when it comes to these plans with defeating terrorism is create an overall strategy and stay on message and go, right?

so far we've heard let's go in, let's take the oil, let's put troops in, let's just bomb the heck out of the place. so i would advocate mr. trump to, yes, let's put out a plan to go, but i think expecting to have some completely detailed, nuanced plan -- the bottom line, he just needs to stay on message. this isn't an intellectual election, this is an emotional one, bottom line. harris: nuclear button issue. that's what i want to know, do you trust him on that? >> right now, no, i don't. but i don't trust hillary clinton either. to be perfectly frank if i had to pick, i'm going to pick the republican side. harris: president obama is going to the pentagon today to meet with his national security council about the fight against the islamic state savages. the terror army is now operating in three times as many countries as it was two years ago. so how do we stop isis? ♪ ♪ my experience with usaa is awesome.

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♪ ♪ harris: well, a few hours from now president obama will meet with his national security council to talk about what's working and what is not working in the fight against isis. the meeting at the pentagon comes as the military is ramping up its mission, expanding airstrikes, for instance, in libya. and as nbc news obtained a map which shows a three item fold increase in the number of places where the islamic state savages are now operating, 18-plus countries. docking units from 2014 show the group was in 14 countries, thousand fully operational in 18 plus, and they are taking root in six others. i would imagine as we speak. so this idea of whack-a-mole, something that ambassador john bolton and i were talking about on the air a couple of days ago, where you pound them into the ground in one place, and they pop up space else. he says it's complicated with isis because they can do that, and they have a nesting ground

in raqqa, syria. >> exactly correct. and they've got their home base that exists in iraq and their home base that exists in syria and, yes, you know, the iraqi and with our support in syria and the iranians, unfortunately, and their militias, we have been taking some of the territory away from isis which is a big deal because a that's where they get most of their revenue from. we have broken the back a little on their oil, the black market be oil, but most of the revenue right now is coming from taxing the people that they control. the more land we take away, that's the a good thing. however, they're not stupid. they recognized they were losing some of their power position, so they started flowing some of their people through syria, i through turkey, into europe. yes, there's 18 where they're trying to establish their caliphates and six more, but that doesn't take into account even, you know, say the sleeper, you know, through the syrian refugee program that they utilize in europe. that doesn't take that into account and 3 number of those that are moving around. and that's a dangerous thing. you know, just to me when i watch, i keep going over that, you know, if you remember

secretary kerry a few weeks ago compared air conditioners and refridge righters, you know? the -- refrigerators to isis. harris: yeah. >> let's start by removing that kind of a philosophy, you know, out and we can actually start to get serious about a plan. it's not going to come from this president. gillian: so the u.s. intelligence community claims that the military has reclaimed something like 45% of territory or that isis held in iraq and syria, and as ben be mentioned, that's hugely important, right? because isis, remember, considers itself, has this grandiose illusion of itself as a state. so they're able to generate revenue that way. every time we can push back against that idea, it's help. but it's important -- helpful. it's important to also remember, and i think sometimes the u.s. government is shortsighted, their fallback plan is to revert to being a terrorist organization and carrying out murders across the globe. and that's what we're seeing now. while john kerry is, in a sense, right to say that they are sort of panicking because they're not

doing as well on the ground in iraq and syria as they'd like to, it doesn't make them, unfortunately, any less dangerous. harris: well, yeah. that panic can manifest itself into a bigger killing machine. i mean, that's what's happening. julie: yeah. and what's so scary about what both of you just said, put aside the issue of the syrian refugees, most of these attacks have been carried out by first or second generation european nationals. this extends even beyond the refugee solution, it extends into an assimilation solution which the europeans are not prepared -- harris: well, look, it's happening here. julie: it is, but not to the extent it's happening there, and that's the problem. the europeans, since algeria if not earlier, have done a horrible job of assimilating their muslims, and that you see happening now, the second and third generation rising up. harris: all right. controversy has been selected over limb pick swimmer -- olympic swimmer mike manying films.

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harris: more "outnumbered" in just a moment. let's go to jenna lee with what's coming up in the next hour of "happening now." jenna: hi, harris. we've been telling you about these fox news polls, now we're getting some new head-to-head matchups from several very important battleground states. we're going to tell you what they're telling us about the state of the race. plus, the media got a lot wrong with that purple heart story and donald trump. yesterday we interviewed the man who gave donald trump his purple heart. the rest of the story, and the way it got spread in the press. you don't want to miss this. plus, another horrific attack overseas, an american woman killed in the middle of london, five others stabbed. what we're learning next hour that's new. harris: thanks a lot. we'll see you then. controversial swimmer michael phelps has been chosen to represent team usa during the rio olympics opening ceremony.

he won 18 olympic gold medals. he also has a little bit of a past, as you may know. phelps was arrested twice for drunken driving in 2004 and 2014 and was caught on camera smoking marijuana in 2008. he has since entered rehab and given up alcohol, and he became a father for the first time this year. but some critics say he should not be the face of the united states on friday. your thoughts. julie: i completely disagree. first of all, this is a great redemption story. he had a problem, he addressed it, he took care of it. his daughter is adorable, i saw her on tv, and she was really cute. why not? many why not say this is somebody who is an amazing athlete, had some fallback in his life, took care of it. that's the american dream. we believe in second chances in this country. harris: monica? month month yeah, absolutely. this is the land of second chances. this is also the land of merit, and if anybody belongs as the face be, the united states' face of these games, it's michael

films with those gazillion gold medals around his neck. harris: ben? >> yeah. america loves a turn-around story, and this is fantastic to see. there is part of me that, certainly as a father of young kids, that see a dui that makes me a little bit nervous, but that's a personal thing for his life. to me, you know, in terms of representing the united states, this is a guy that's won, you know, 475 gold medals, something absurd. i think he deserves to have that spot. but it doesn't mean that, you know, we shouldn't hope for the best for him. harris: debbie phelps, mom, i sat down with her right around the time that he was having some of his problems in '08 with marijuana. and, you know, they test you, so that was a problem for him as an athlete. and it was interesting to hear her talk about the journey and how many hours he'd spent day after a day getting ready for these big moments -- monica: she also kicked his butt when he was arrested. harris: she did. yeah, she talked about it. >> very big presence in his life, and she could him on the carpet. julie: good.

that's what a mom should do. gillian: i would just caution against, against, ben, what you said which is that his dui history is a personal story. a dui -- >> well, i meant that in a personal thing. yeah, it troubles me in the fact that, look, i'm on the road too with my kids, so anybody that's behind a wheel, you know? but, look, i went to a boarding school that was about -- julie: they were my school competitors. i didn't know that, wow. >> that place has phenomenal swimmers. so i used to see these kids get up at three a.m. every day -- harris: oh, their work ethic. gillian: i worry that this encourages a pattern of forgiving celebrities. for example, i remember the lindsay lohan stories. if i had been arrested 75 times with a dui, i would be in jail. harris: i suddenly see a new group popping up called celebrities are people too. [laughter] i don't know, i could be wrong. all right, we'll move on.

more "outnumbered" in just a moment. come back.

harris: it was fantastic to get your military experience on the show. >> thank you. harris: ben collins, wow. former army green beret, my dad says you're always one. i know he's watching. >> well, thank you, is and thank you for your dad's service as well. harris: i'll pass that on to him. he's a big fan. as we go be out of this, you're

going to join us fur outnumbered overtime. are you ready? >> i'm not sure. [laughter] harris: there are no commercials, there are no rules. it's on facebook live. outnumbered nfc. we're back on tv at noon eastern tomorrow. "happening now" starts now. finish >> it shows a convention bounce for hillary clinton. we are covering all of the news "happening now". >> the later on the fiery crash landing in dubai and what put people in danger. and a dc transit cop plotting to it help isis. a stabbing rampage leaves an american woman dead and five others wounded. what we are learning about the suspect and is there