liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. >> see you back here in an hour. >> "outnumbered" the starts right now. sandra: legal action that could have impact on the campaign trail. parents of two americans killed in the benghazi terror attacks. filing a wrongful death lawsuit pens hillary clinton, claiming that hillary clinton's care restness handling classified information contributed to their son's death. this is "outnumbered." i'm sandra smith. co-host of "after the bell" on fox business, melissa francis. also from fbn, dagen mcdowell is here. and radio talk show host, meghan mccain, today's #oneluckyguy, there he is, executive producer of imus in the morning, bernard

mcguirk. >> thank you, ladies. melissa: do we have to call you bernard? >> ball bald-headed, whatever yu want. dagen: i want to kiss your head. >> you're making me blush. thanks for having me. sandra: let's get started. what we continue to, hillary clinton. the parent of sean smith and tyrone woods dropping a lawsuit on the democratic nominee for president, suing clinton for wrongful death and defamation. they claim hillary's mishandling of information on her private server was directly responsible for her son's murders at the hands of army terrorists. army ranger veteran part of the team that fought back against benghazi attackerss with this reaction to the lawsuit today. >> i think it's a good thing. they are standing up. the system has failed them.

the system that was supposed to protect them, supposed to keep people accountable is not. right now hillary is government law, that is what we're seeing. we're continuing to see that. only way we come back and bring her back down and do it ourselves. pat and charles wood are stating a good example. sandra: clinton campaign said no one can imagine the pain of families of great americans that were lost in benghazi, there have been nine different investigations into this attack and none found any evidence whatsoever of any wrongdoing on the part of hillary clinton. so the parents, bernie, are looking to do two things here, blame hillary clinton, for the wrongful deaths of their children and accusing her defaming them, directly, indirectly, in multiple instances of calling them liars. >> that is what happened. the system failed them including the media. the media failed them. as far as what happened in benghazi as you pointed out, no wrongdoing has been found.

since then james comey came out with his testimony that pave the lawsuit credibility. what is disgusting what occurred afterwards. her lying to them on the tarmac with their bodies but feet away, lying to them, essentially calling them liars. it is disgraceful, it is disgusting. i hope they get the house in chappaqua. i wish they could sue bill clinton because the two of them could live in a house in yonkers or trailer park. nauseating, the media has to cover this the way they cover trump. dagen: there is asymmetric outrage about the trump and comments on the kahn family. does not exc media put the benghazi issue in a vault put it away. in the interview with chris wallace, hillary clinton goes full grandmother mode, uses soft voice how sri referenced, talked to pat smith. i don't hold any i'll feels.

in that moment they may not fully recall what was said or not said. they remember and you lied to them. meghan: andrews air force base while the bodies were a mere feet away. that is the most egregious part of this. also, i know there has been nine different investigations, but what about the email she sent to chelsea, how it was terrorist attack but told everyone publicly it was spontaneous attack because of youtube video. pat smith had most powerful speech. i have a hard time watching her interviews without getting emotional. all the pain. she lost her son. they didn't need to die. ambassador stevens didn't need to die. sandra: she has been out on campaign trail and spoke at rnc i blame hillary clinton personally for the death of my son, that is personally. melissa: when you look at points of lawsuit, they're suing on two different bases. defamation, calling them liars directly or indirectly on the

campaign trail. but also they make the charge that having used her secret private email server to communicate with ambassador stevens that she basically revealed what was going on and where he was and put his life in danger, trying to make the connection to terrorists having hacked that machine. knowing where he was, it seems like that point could be tough to prove based on what we've seen. sandra: the attorney who filed the lawsuit made his case in a statement. in it, he says, this is part of the statement, it is clear that hillary clinton allegedly, negligently and recklessly gave up classified location of the plaintiff's sons. melissa: i wonder what burden of proof is there. if they gave up location and proving terrorists saw what it was and. sandra: bernie, drip, drip, how does this play out. is this another hit for hillary clinton? >> it should be if the media covers the way it should,

missing 33,000 emails crucial. whoever has them, don't encourage anybody to hack anybody's system, if you have them release them of course. because -- melissa: not encouraging hacking. >> the evidence may be buried in the 33,000. meghan: there is already evidence. she emailed chelsea. dagen: she talked to the president of libya that evening of the attack said essentially we know it's a terrorist attack. then that night, released a statement saying, blaming the video. that wasn't the first time she publicly blamed video. meghan: people don't bring assault rockets to things spontaneous. dagen: communicated with chelsea and said it was a terrorist attack. next day talked with the head of egypt and blamed terrorist attacks. saying one thing truthfully and lying to the public. can i point out, the at the same time e statement from the clinton spokesman. he pointed out the nine different investigations into the attack, none found any evidence whatsoever of any wrongdoing on the part of

hillary clinton, because in the world of clinton, lying isn't wrongdoing. sandra: by the way judge andrew napolitano did weigh in on this today, he says i don't think either parts of this lawsuit are going to go. it is logical argument but certainly not going to go anywhere in an election year. >> time for julian assange to step up again. melissa: oh, goodness. hillary clinton ripping into donald trump's economic plan after the republican nominee unveiled a proposal he says will jump-start the economy by slashing taxes and regulation but clinton accused trump of peddling old tired ideas that benefit the really wealthy. listen. >> he announced a few days ago that he has a dozen economic advisors. let's see. he has three wall street money managers, an oil baron, a former chief economist at one of the big banks at the heart of the financial crisis. he has got six men named steve. [laughter] and, you know, that they all

care about the same thing he does, about you know, how to avoid paying their fair share. melissa: clinton previewed economic speech she will give on thursday at the same detroit venue, offering this contrast to her rival's plan. >> basically cut taxes on the wealthy, get out of the way and let the wealthy do whatever they want. i have a very different approach. i intend to make the wealthy pay their fair share to build this economy! [cheering] he wants to roll back regulations on wall street. i want to tighten them and make them cover more people so that we don't ever end up in the ditch we were in with the great recession. melissa: i mean, that is the biggest lie i have ever heard. that is saying a lot. she is bought and paid for by wall street. sandra: all i could think about while she made the speech.

melissa: goal to make as much money as possible, a lot of money coming from wall street. i'm not talking about her campaign. i'm talking about those speeches she was getting paid 200,000, $300,000 a piece for. now she is cracking down on wall street? meghan: hilarious. melissa: goldman sachs doesn't spend money wisely, right, dagen? they are giving her money because she is going easy on them. she will help her rich friends. that is why they back her. it is amazing to me to hear him accuse her of that, when wall street doesn't support trump he is not bought and paid for the same way she is. dagen: this is insanity. "wall street journal" reported on some of the speeches she gave, she won't release transcripts, she practically asked for a big group hug in the speeches. telling them how wonderful -- essentially doing god's work, which is fine but then, turn around -- irony in all of this is absurd. i want to point out something when you compared what donald trump talked about yesterday and what she said on

the campaign trail, she took a hard left turn facing off against bernie, she has not pulled the car back on the road at all. if you want more of the same and worse from the last seven 1/2 years, by all means to ahead and vote for her. she is, she is further left on taxes, regulations, health care, spending and energy than barack obama and for that, we've gotten the worst recovery since '49. melissa: meghan for all the insults thrown back and forth, the real problem, middle class jobs in this country have disappeared. the rich are getting richer and poor getting poorer under president obama. she is talking about the exact same policies when we head down the road. meghan: this is political. donald trump had a very good day, that speech was very, rolled out eloquently, lord knows i don't think that happens with donald trump. his economic plan is meat and potatoes republican policies going back to reagan days. something that appeals to all conservative voters. he did very well that day.

she has to come out swinging. she has gone full socialist clearly. whatever debt she owes to bernie sanders, where she is still bleeding voters, independents, women, traditional bernie sanders voters going to jill stein, going to gary johnson, going to whomever else, this is all political. saying wall street, wall street is hilarious. we're pointing out the irony but still trying to reconnect herself with bernie sanders. melissa: her record in new york, when she said she would bring bag manufacturing jobs. nothing happened. >> she did squat in new york. sponsored 300 something bills. three got passed to rename highways and parks, that is it. did nothing for upstate new york. still suffering. lost vote from guys named steve. that is stupid move. median income is down here. real unemployment numbers are astronomical. insurance premiums are going way the hell up, more of the same,

as everybody said, go her way. i'm willing to roll the dice with trump. i'm not sure it will work out but i'm willing to take a chance. dagen: trump should take the speech and what he talks about taxes and getting more of your own money, make it a baby and carry it around with him on campaign trail. this is only thing you will talk about. look at new america, right here that i have for you. meghan: i like that image. he pointed out in the speech, one of the most effective talking points, if you want more of the same, want more of the economy going into the tank, vote for her. campaign of future. great talking points. melissa: criticism of donald trump from his own party, a high-profile gop senator says she will not vote for him. will this have any effect on voters at all? could this help his position at the anti-establishment candidate. plus troubling questions over the execution of a iranian nuclear scientist and whether hillary clinton may somehow bear

some blame for that. how it could impact her white house bid. right after the show, catch more from the couch. you can join us on the live chat by clicking on the "overtime" tab on foxnews.com/overtime. you can find overtime on facebook. facebook.com/outnumberedfnc you can tweet us if that is not enough. tweet us questions and comments. we'll see you there.

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♪ dagen: the most senior republican senator yet coming out against donald trump. susan collins, the moderate from maine, says she believes trump would make already perillous world even more dangerous. this comes after senior 50 security officials sign adler that trump would quote, risk our national security and well-being. among those signing an former secretaries of homeland security michael chertoff and tom ridge and former nsa director michael hayden but trump firing back earlier today, calling them part of the failed washington elite. >> look where the country is now, national policy. look where we are in defense. look at the mess we're in, whether it is the middle east or anywhere else.

these are the people that have been there a long time, washington establishment people that have been there a long time. look at terrible job they have done. i won the primaries bring fighting all these insiders and people are rejecting the insiders. dagen: bernie, we know the why, if you read the letter and read the op ed written by senator collins, but why now? strangely suspicious? >> i'm not sure about the timing. all i know she talked about, based on his disregard for the precept of treating others with respect. i mean look, pull up your big boy pants. it is, politics is not table tennis. more like the ufc she represents old school, old pro-intervention it, the neocon mentality, the apologists for the iraq war and all that stuff. i think he is bert served. these people like chertoff and rest of these guys all represent that mentality, that eschews, rightly so. you know what? good riddance to them. they should have the integrity to say who they support? if you support hillary clinton,

if you don't say that i have a right to paraphrase stalin and lenin call you a useful idiot for hillary. that is what you are. sandra: dagen, if i could, i want to bring in meghan mcchain. senator collins says she faults trump for constant stream of cruel comment inability to admit error or apologize, which is interesting why i wanted to ask you. one of the reasons you continue to hold reservations about trump -- meghan: don't support hillary. not a useful idiot. equal amounts passionate and hate for hillary. >> i hurd are heard you say you would voight for trump. meghan: he said a lot of crazy things that worked very well in the primaries. certain things rose above just political, people that follow politics. kahn family being one of them. making fun of a disabled reporter. pow comment and the judge. he had a very, very bad week last week. he is priding himself, i'm not a politician, not a polish tish shun. you're nominee for party.

you're a leader. i am paranoid every time i get on subway, a say a prayer terrorist attack doesn't happen. that is world we live in. i need a leader to calm these fears. i'm already anxious person. i think americans are anxious in general. we need a leader who will calm them down. he has 90 days. at this time in '88, dukakis was winning. you are bush campaigned his heart out. he has ample opportunity. good point, endorsing paul ryan and my father, kelly ayote, has a good stance. has to be politician and leader, he think he can rebain votes. dagen: melissa, does this hurt him? plays right into his narrative he is not part of this group. melissa: it does very much. i remember asking bret baier one time on scale of one to 10, how scared is everybody in washington that if he wins they're going to be out of a job? he said 11. this is on both sides of the aisle, republicans, democrats, everybody. especially republicans. worried that if he wins, it is

all, there are some people in washington who arrived poor and leave rich. who have found a way to monetize the political system on backs of all of you out there, on backs of every american. it is not right. it has gotten us where we are now. it is clear that he wouldn't put up with it. there are a lot of career politicians that are afraid of him winning for their own pocketbooks. dagen: even as his polls suffered in other ways, in terms of, "wall street journal/nbc" poll taken recently, who will be better at changing business as usual in washington? 48% donald trump. 26% hillary clinton. sandra: where he continues to struggle, bernie, with women. this is coming from a high-ranking republican woman, does it hurt him more? >> it may or may not. it shouldn't. tell you what, donald trump is the ultimate feminist. he doesn't treat women like delicate -- melissa: can't get away with that.tracts donald trump he will attack her back just like he would with a

man. doesn't look at her as delicate little flower. hits back like he would with katie couric or chris wallace or george stephanopoulos. he would do exact same thing. meghan: throw a quote at you, facts are stubborn things. doing poorly specifically with college educated women, a demographic easily for republicans to scoop up. he has got you. >> i understand that. meghan: he needs me. he needs sandra. dagen: went after senator kelly ayote, one of six republican senators in washington. meghan: great conservative icon for women. dagen: i don't even know her. >> misogyny or sexism. he treats everybody -- meghan: being interpreted that way. >> these days gender equality. meghan: say that with respect to you, i like you, in all fairness it is directed at us. it is not directed at you. he already has white men. it is fine. democrats he needs. when he says things attacking kelly ayote, i think you don't

take seriously as lot of republican women do, republican women serving in office going up the bs of hillary clinton using her gender card, these are icons i look up to. when you attack them, makes you wonder which side he was on. dagen: went after ayote because of her, she came out against his comments about the kahn family. meghan: her us had is in the military. her husband serves. differ cut for us related to people in the military. melissa: bernie's point he is equal opportunity attacker. that doesn't make him a feminist. i agree with all of you. meghan: at this point of the game -- >> looking for equality. meghan: you have to go after demographics we don't have. we want to beat "crooked hillary," come on! dagen: i love this. new effort to stop donald trump, another one, a former cia operative, officially launching a third party run. so who is this guy? and will he mount any sort of serious challenge?

plus alarm bells in hillary clinton's camp. aides concerned about trump's recent fund-raising haul, her troubles with two key voting blocs. more ahead. ♪ how busylife can be. these kids were headed to their first dance recital... ...when their windshield got cracked... ...but they couldn't miss the show. so dad went to the new safelite-dot-com. and in just a few clicks, he scheduled a replacement... ...before the girls even took the stage. safelite-dot-com is the fast, easy way to schedule service anywhere in america! so you don't have to miss a thing. y'all did wonderful! that's another safelite advantage. (girls sing) safelite repair, safelite replace.

♪ sandra: new twist in the 2016 campaign. an anti-trump republican, evan mcmullen is launching a white house bid. he was most recently chief policy director of house republican conference, says he is jumping into the race because voters need another option. watch. >> i'm getting in now because i firmly believe that both candidates are woefully unprepared and woefully unfit for the responsibilities that they seek. and i think our country is desperate for a new generation of leadership. i think that is clear. americans are so unsatisfied with the direction of the country.

then to have two candidates whose negatives are so high, there is a lot of frustration out there. sandra: mcmullin brushed off questions whether he would only be helping hillary clinton saying trump is already losing badly. all right. you gets into the race. nobody really knows who this guy is, although the profile is quickly climbing because of, because of interviews like that. >> true. he and i have something in common. i've been called a bald-headed moron. he is a bald-headed mormon. look whatever, by the way you need these days with the exception of trump, you need a ron burgundy hairdo to run for office. talk about unfit and disqualified, i understand he is a bill crystal flunky, this guy is the ultimate useful idiot for hillary, bill kristol. they may hurt trump in utah. one state. that's it. sandra: what do you think his intention is here?

melissa: whenever these people, i think they're trying to create speaking career for themselves or promoting something else down the line. i'm so jaded. dagen: they do. sandra: challenge he faces just getting his name on the ballots in every state. melissa: he miss ad deadline. it is not real campaign. it could be about making a political point but i always think at end of the day it is always about money and driving their way to something. he is trying to create a name to go out speaking tour, or something like that or write a book, that sort of thing. it is distraction. i think only place it makes a dent in utah where nobody likes trump anyway. dagen: ex-cia operative why not mike baker? >> he has the hairdo. dagen: he has the swagger. if you come in this late you need to have a big personality. we all remember ross perot. as long as i sat here as as much as the debt goes up we could buy every redneck in little rock a satellite dish. that is old dana carvey

impression of him. meghan: throwing this around, the writer, a lot of people said same thing, months ago, there is not enough time, doesn't have enough money. you would need koch brothers money to get this done. he is already on the ballot in new mexico, i guess is a good thing. the problem, i was in starbucks two days ago, somebody said, meghan, what am i supposed to do, my choices are between a crook and clown? people are frustrated. donald trump has the opportunity, especially coming up in the debates to come out look incredibly presidential and look like statesman. things working for him in the primary will not work to get independent voters, young college educated women. instead of looking towards this independent bid by evan mcmuffin i accidentally called him earlier, mcmullin. i want to take it seriously. i like melissa are very jaded. agree with you meghan, if you want could tom out swinging with personality and passion. i could have come out with any strategist.

dagen: if i voted for a bald man with irish name it wouldn't be this man. sandra: he is particularly critical of trump but goes after hillary clinton in recent interview, they're woefully unfit for responsibilities they seek. in that same interview called trump inhuman and authoritarian doesn't care about anyone himself. meghan: people chose these people. there were some options. dagen: doesn't anybody think, dude, start with a congressional seat? melissa: there you go. dagen: running for the presidency? >> city council. dagen: trump at least, he had name recognition. sandra: there you go. team hillary sounding the alarm over donald trump's latest fund-raising efforts. clinton campaign reportedly sending out an email to top donors with the subject line, wake-up call, this after trump's team brought in $80 million in july. that is more than anyone expected. most of it in small donations. that is not all. even though polls show clinton

leading nationally, a new monmouth university survey finds she is still trailing with trump among independents 32-33%. the gap wider among white voters where trump leads clinton 43-3%. meghan, i want to start with you on this one -- 38%. makes me laugh when they send out the emails. meghan: panic e-mails. melissa: alarm. the other person raised a fortune. i need your money now. isn't that traditional ploy? meghan: i don't know how i got on email, meghan, emergency. what happened? fund-raising email. listen, he was criticized heavily for not raising money. he has come out and shown a bull to raise money. she should be very, very nervous. last week was very bad week for donald trump by his own faults and mistakes. she still managed to screw up it by lying about lying. this is still his for the taking in many ways. again, if this shows nothing else, he is still extremely formidable candidate.

if i were her i would be running scared and very nervous. melissa: you represent white men on couch. >> key thing was the small donations. this is sort of a grassroots movement. i believe the support here is not entirely reflected in the polls. and manifestation of that is that small donation, all those small donations that he received. so i think, you have to add at least 5% or so to trump's support because there is silent majority, silent support out there. people are being stigmatized for supporting trump and they're not saying that they're supporting him. so i think she should be worried. she is wise to put out an alert. dagen: should take some of this cash haul, what was it, combined, he has got $74 million in the bank at the end of july. they have to start running ads, because again, it should be reactionary moment by moment. if she tells another lie about jim comey signing off on what she said about her email server, that she told the truth, they need to cut ads immediately.

she is running ads 12 to one on television. he can, he is dominating the social media conversation. on "mornings with maria," mike berlin was talking about he still dominates. 3/4 of volume on social media compared to her 1/4. >> rallies. look at enthusiasm at rallies. she gets 22 people. melissa: you have to spend on ads. sandra: if urgency in memo doesn't show campaign is worried about this, oh lit co, in august, she, hillary clinton and her husbanding, running mate, senator tim kaine will headline more than 80 fund-raising events in 25 states, just one month in august. that is a lot of work. dagen: i want to ask a question, who would pay to her hear talk like that!? melissa: goes back to -- >> deal me out! meghan: there is this thing called the microphone affected. she is screaming. melissa: always way ahead in the state. as it got closer and closer to

voting time, her opponent at that time, bernie sanders would get closer, and closer to her because as you're exposed to her and listen to that voice, people hear her and hear what she has to say, she loses enthusiasm. as we got closer voting time in each state the opponent caught up and passed her. do you think same possible phenomenon in the general election or no? sandra: all sipes, everything that we just talked about points to the fact that her campaign is worried but they are outspending the trump campaign. they will need more to keep up the same pace they have up until this point. so i don't know, all signs point to this report, they're sending out to their supporters this is wake-up call. you say -- melissa: marketing ploy. give us your money because we're panic inned. dagen: classic call to action marketing. give it now. we're running out. sandra: sometimes it really happens though.

melissa: execution of iranian nuclear scientist putting hillary clinton and her private email server back in the spotlight. why donald trump is saying her emails may have played a role in that nuclear expert's death and how the clinton camp is pushing back. we'll debate that coming up. you can run an errand. (music playing) ♪ push it real good... (announcer vo) or you can take a joyride. bye bye, errands, we sing out loud here. siriusxm. road happy. could protect you from diabetes? what if one sit-up could prevent heart disease? one. wishful thinking, right? but there is one step you can take to help prevent another serious disease. pneumococcal pneumonia. if you are 50 or older, one dose of the prevnar 13® vaccine can help protect you from pneumococcal pneumonia, an illness that can cause coughing, chest pain, difficulty breathing, and may even put you in the hospital. even if you have already been vaccinated

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(announcer vo) you can sit in traffic. or you can crack up. (man on radio) but if it isn't refreshing... (announcer vo) sorry traffic, we laugh 'til it hurts. siriusxm. road happy. ♪ meghan: new fallout over the execution of a iranian nuclear scientist. iran confirming earlier this week that shahram amiri was killed forgiving the u.s. intelligence about the country's nuclear program. we are learning that the scientist was discussed in emails that crossed hillary clinton's private server, fueling a new wave of criticism over the former secretary of state and her email setup. donald trump suggesting that clinton could be responsible for amiri's death, many people are saying that the iranian skilled, the scientist helped the u.s. because of hillary clinton's

hacked emails. senator jeff sessions telling "on the record" it is possible her email could have been hacked. >> most of these sophisticated states do have the ability to penetrate unprotected computer systems and so, what you have is a situation where it is absolutely clear that they could have gotten this information and had they gotten it, it could have led to his death. meghan: but the clinton campaign is firing back saying clinton had nothing to do with amiri's death. one campaign spokesman pointed out wash tone post article, there is no evidence that her server was hacked. they need about amiri before it was released possible luckily. his fate was sealed long before his sentence was carried out this is lot. this story makes me sick. i don't believe the spin at all. i think he died because of her talking about him in her emails. it is horrible. this guy helped us. he was giving us information about iran's nuclear program. i don't know what to say. this is why people can't vote

for her. >> at this point what difference does it make really? meghan: oh, my gosh. it was terrible. she referred to him as our friend. senator said it is possible. it is entirely possible. it needs to be investigated. i mean the guy, just connect the dots. she referred to him as our friend. he was sent back and he got executed. he may be, his family may be able to join the benghazi parents family in the lawsuit of holding her responsible for his death. somebody should find out. again, the 33,000 missing emails may be the key. meghan: how many more people's lives are at risk? god knows what is it in her emails. what do you think, dagen? >> 110 contained classified information at the time they were sent or received. go over and over, eight email chains contained top secret information. three emails were down had been deleted and they were recovered. throw that recklessness, that

grave, hideous recklessness on top of what we've done with iran. in terms of this nuclear deal and in terms of this $400 million ransom payment. we found out just recently, administration wants to roll back the remaining sanctions that we have in place. we find out president, former mahmoud ahmadinejad is calling out saying we want the $2 billion in new york banks meant to go to victims of iranian-sponsored terrorism. i said last week they will come after the money. they will want it exchanged for the three prisoners. this is the web that the obama administration has woven that hillary clinton has woven. if you send her into the presidency, where does it leave the united states. sandra: those she wants to vote for her, just find they can't, they don't trust. they worry about this country being in her hands. senator tom cotton, republican from arkansas said, if anything, this just goes to show how rickless and careless was to put

that highly classified information on a private server. and any new news that comes out circulating that, just continuously reminds you of american lives put at risk. by her exchanging that information on a home private server. melissa: this is another one where the language around it is clintonesque and drives me nuts. there is no evidence that it was hacked. anyone who knows anything about technology, when you have a sophisticated nation-state or sophisticated hacker in, goes into a computer, they don't need trace -- leave traces that is part of the knowledge, to go in and get information and get out. in response, you know, on the republican side, they're saying well it could have been hacked. that also sound dubious. you know, like could have been. so the language around the whole thing is really annoying. the fact that she basically was sitting there on this home brew server that you would have bought at kmart doing nation's security. it is unbelievable! >> the intel community is livid over this whole thing.

a lot of people have been compromised, national security. individuals are livid. that is what this guy mcmullin, should have been talking about, a former cia operative how angry people are with her over that. meghan: said it bass just yoga and chelsea's wedding on the server, remember that? drivers looking for the caffeine fix may be headed on collision course with big government. law i makers in one state would ban drinking or eating or putting make up behind the while. is it government in overdrive ♪ ♪ breaking from the norm... is never easy.

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♪ sandra: is big brother's next target your morning cup of joe? major pushback after a new jersey lawmaker propose ad law that effectively bans drinking, eating an grooming behind the wheel. the bill outlaws any activity unrelated to actually operating a vehicle safely. drivers would be hit with a 200 to $400 penalty for the first offense. it rises up to $600 for a second offense. the third offense, watch out,

goes up to $800. plus, a 90-day license suspension and points on your license. democratic assemblyman defending the bill saying the issue is distracted driving, and that his measure does not explicitly ban drinking coffee. he says he can't imagine a officer ticketing anyone for that, by critics say it gives them the power to do so. here is sampling of more mixed reaction. >> i think it's a little excessive. >> taking a cup, drink being like this as i'm talking to you, eating, i don't think it is affecting your ability to keep your eye on the road. >> if it saves lives, could save your own life or someone else's life as well. sandra: okay, dare i go to bernard mcguirk on this? >> yes. what this is, like the red light cameras. a way to generate revenue. sandra: exactly. >> mike bloombergesque nanny state nonsense. obviously you shouldn't be eating lobster or corn-on-the-cob with butter.

take a bite on a granola bar. dagen: this is not nanny state, that is horse hooy. i don't care if you drink a sugary soda that is your businesses driving and texting -- >> that is already outlawed. that is outlawed. dagen: look at this woman, she was texting in denver on i-25 in colorado. >> that is illegal. dagen: with her foot up. it is the same thing. putting on lipstick or messing with your coffee or driving like any man. >> i've been driving for 40 years. i drove a taxi for 10 years at night. i never had a problem drinking coffee or a beer or anything like that. sandra: what are you saying, dagen? you are okay with this? dagen: i'm okay if it is related to highway safety. google woman putting on makeup accident. there are numerous accidents involving women who are like putting on lipstick, anything that distracts you from driving,

should be illegal. if they see you doing anything, i don't even care if you looking lovingly into your paramore's eyes. it doesn't end. melissa: what if you have two kids in car seats behind you and somebody chuck as bottle -- dagen: you pull over. sandra: a lot can go on. where do you end. meghan: i love you dagen. this is absurd. drinking a little bit of a drink in a car. a lot of people have really long commutes to get from point a to point b. if they're not well-calf fin nated that is a problem. i think it's a way to get easy money from citizens and nothing to do with safety. melissa: it is always about money. they have a transportation fund in new jersey bankrupt. potholes in the road are more dangerous than the way people are driving. i do hear what you're saying. distracted drive something terrible, come on, this is about giving them license to give anyone a ticket so they can raise money. always see it in new york city, with de blasio has to pay for something, he sends cops out to

the side of the road, pulling people over left and right. issuing three times as many parking tickets as usual when they need to raise money. dagen: a woman t-bones you spilling a cup of coffee on her lap you will -- sandra: i respect you have a totally different take from anybody on the couch. dagen: which adjective are you carefully choosing to describe my view on this? sandra: no, do you think it will actually help? do you think it will actually change anything. dagen: if people think they will get a ticket, hit in the wall late with $500 fine. if they're being reckless behind the wheel, whatever behavior they're exhibiting they will clean up -- sandra: can you be able to change the radio station? dagen: the last accident i had, i was 22 years old. rear-ended somebody in aspen, colorado, you know what i was doing? i was changing the radio station. sandra: what about self-accountability and being accountable for your actions? why do we have to have laws that

tell us exactly -- >> outlaw driving then. ridiculous. people get into accidents doing nothing being stupid. their minds are wandering. you can still concentrate on the road, reach down for cup of coffee. you could easily do that. melissa: i made to make dagen he's point. i was looking at phone. the cop pulled me over. not look at this thing. he didn't give me a ticket can. i absolutely paid attention, being pulled over is different. telling you not a little bit. just stop it. i don't want points. i don't want to pay the fine. sandra: you were texting while you were driving? melissa: i was at a stoplight reading my emails because you're bored. i was looking down. i'm not giving it to you because you were at a stoplight. put it in your purse. get it away from you. meghan: recollectionless society dagen: if you're doing in in the car you should get a ticket.

sandra: even if the car is parked at a stoplight. more "outnumbered." we'll be right back. your insurance company won't replace the full value of your totaled new car. the guy says you picked the wrong insurance plan. no, i picked the wrong insurance company. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, you won't have to worry about replacing your car because you'll get the full value back including depreciation. and if you have more than one liberty mutual policy, you qualify for a multi-policy discount, saving you money on your car and home coverage. call for a free quote today. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.

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sandra: many thanks to bernard mcguirk for joining us. >> pleasure and honor was all mind. thank you, ladies. imus in the morning all over the country. bernie on 77 wabc radio

following the isle must show. dagen: he has a better body than bernie does. sandra: stay right here for more conversation like that on the web, "outnumbered overtime." facebook.com/nc. we're back tomorrow at noon eastern. >> starting with a fox news alert on a deadly cargo ship sdaefrt as technicians recover the el faro data recorder a year after the ship went down killing owl 33 crew members. >> the ntsb hope to find out more on what happened upon. we are covering all of the news now. >> he is incredibly levelheaded and had to fight and a lot of people coming at him. >> ivanka speaking out in defense of her father and will her argument stick. plus. the