tomorrow night right here at 7:00 p.m. eastern. donald trump will go "on the record" with me. it's a can't miss interview and never miss an episode of the five every night at 5:00 p.m. ♪ ♪ ♪ hi, i'm eric bolling, in for bill o'reilly. thanks for watching us tonight. let's get right to our top story. has donald trump changed his position on deporting illegal immigrants in the u.s.? that seems to be the message his campaign has been sending the last few days. both sides are scrambling to figure out exactly where trump now stands on the critical issue. and, whether this will help or hurt his election bid. joining us now on the phone with reaction from with a sill low, alaska, former alaska governor and the 2008 republican vice presidential nominee sarah palin who supports donald trump. so, governor palin, thanks for joining us ntled.

>> governor trump didn't garner enthusiastic support by being soft on anything. he knows the majority of what americans want and that is to put a stop to illegal immigration. donald trump understands that enforcing the laws and building that wall are paramount to what the will of the people is and thank god he is still preaching that because, if you are not, then there would be a huge erosion of support. >> yeah, i would guess so. let's talk a little bit about the, granted, the wall goes up, you keep illegals out and i think every g.o.p.er on the full spectrum of the right would agree with that. what about the amnesty part? what about the part of the 11 or 12 million who are still here, who are here not sending them to the back, whether it's a path of citizenship letting them stay or letting them stay,

your thoughts? >> we have to quit incentivising them here illegally keeping them here by not employing them. not giving them free healthcare, free college, free phones, free happy meals, free anything. there is such an incentive to keep people here who are here, they have trespassed i will illegally. trump really needs to focus on that, is the disincentive that must be put into play in order for these people to not be here. and no, softening on the position of illegal immigration isn't going to win over any supporters. more importantly though it's not going to help our nation in -- not at all. >> there is a school of thought though, governor, that says that donald trump's base is so interested in voting for donald trump it doesn't matter really how much he waivers on additional proposals, they will vote for him no matter.

what this is the thing that takes maybe independents over or brings over some latin americans, hispanics, to come over to vote for donald trump. >> well, granted, you know, you just have to do your abcs, anybody but clinton to understand that no matter what trump does on immigration, it's going to be better than what hillary will do, which is incentivize more illegals to come on over and continue this unstainable, unaffordable and unfair incentivizing as we're $200 trillion in unfunded liability in debt our nation. hillary will employ practices to just perpetuate that anything that trump does is better. but, why would it be if a independents or right-thinking democrats would want to come over to trump's side just based on this issue once they realize that our nation in such

sinful debt as we are leaving to our children and our grandchildren, trillions and trillions of dollars. why would anyone believe continuing a program -- >> -- there is a whole group as you well know, establishment right republicans who can't vote for trump or won't vote for trump. they don't like his policy. they don't like his no -- his wall policy, his not allowing illegals to stay. they want a bigger tent. they want to have a little bit more of an amnesty program for illegals. maybe he can garner some of that support. or is that support just never going to vote for trump? >> they are never going to vote for trump. those two would like america to not enforce the laws that are on our books. american administrators and law enforcement officers cannot enforce our laws. why have them on the book then. no, people who are of that mind thinking that just because there is a law on the peculiars about -- that would prohibit illegals from coming on over and receiving all of their freebies,

trespassing do on our soil that they should be rewarded. well, they are not going to vote for trump anyway as trump says no. we're not going to put up with that otherwise, we are not as sovereign and security nation anymore if we don't have these secure borders. so, no. what trump -- i wish he would focus on are those legal immigrants who agree with his sound policy, his proposed policy that would create disincentives for illegallies to trespass. >> would you premiere donald trump's stay rigid on deporting the 11 or 12 million if you are here illegally come back in legally. deporting them first would you prefer him to stay on that stance? >> i would prefer politicians to not campaign one way and governor way. we want to know that they are candid and sincere in the policies that they are proposing as candidates and then once they are in that

administration that they would stick to it again, trump can be very, very strong on policies that would create disincentives for trespassers into our nation. and if he is strong on that, that shores up support that he is enjoyed thus far and that he will be gaining as more and more of hillary's corruption comes to light. >> governor, thank you so much for joining us tonight. straight ahead, donald trump calling hillary clinton a bigot and hillary hitting back with the new personal attacks. will they work in their favor? karl rove joins us in a minute.

in the impact segment tonight, a brawl over bigotry between donald trump and hillary clinton. trump is bringing his criticism of hillary clinton to new heights after saying this during a rally in mississippi last night.

>> hillary clinton is a bigot who sees people of color only as votes, not as human beings, worthy of a better future. she is going to do nothing for african-americans. she is going to do nothing for the hispanics. she is only going to take care of herself, her husband, her consultants, her donors. these are the people she cares about. thee doesn't care what her policies have done to your communities. >> earlier today in reno, nevada, hillary clinton shot back accusing the trump campaign with seeking the support of racist and far right zealots. >> from the start, donald trump has built his campaign on prejudice and paranoia. he is taking hate groups mainstream and helping a radical fringe take over the

republican party. his disregard for the values that make our country great is profoundly dangerous. >> joining us now with reaction from austin, texas, former senior advisor to president george w. bush, mr. carl rove. carl, wow, gloves are off. bare knuckle fighting going on. >> yeah, yeah. and neither one of them are helping themselves in my opinion by taking this tone. trump should not have called her a bigot. it's fine to say she is going to be focused on rewarding her donors and her consults tants and her lackeys and so forth and her policies with policies that are not going to advance the cause of african-americans who are da teen knows or working class americans. but it's another thing to call her a bigot. in politics you always want to have people come to their own conclusion. if that's the conclusion that he wanted them to come to, then describe the specifics and let the people come to their own conclusions. >> he has got this new line

of attack on her saying well, actually, trying to bring people to himself, african-american votes to himself. he said what the hell do you have to lose? and then he talks about all the cities that they have had democrat rule and have such bad things going on for african-americans. you think of chicago. you think of philadelphia. you think of newark, st. louis, baltimore, on and on. democrat rules and things aren't going well for blacks. he went and tried to draw a line between donald trump and hillary clinton. >> yeah. >> with the bigot line, no? >> yeah, but, look, that's the opening part of the argument. look at what's happened to you for the last 60 or 70 years. the second part of it is not to call her a bigot but to say here is what i would do to make your life better. it is in that second part that he advantages himself. he doesn't advantage himself by calling her a bigot in my opinion. >> calling hillary clinton a bigot. >> earlier today he said and i'm quoting him every policy hrc supports is a policy that has failed and betrayed communities of color. i understand it as.

>> that's fine. >> she is a democrat therefore african-americans aren't being helped under democrats. >> eric, that's the kind of language you should have not what he said last night. go back and replay your own piece of film. he said hillary clinton is a bigot. those are her words. not mine. so, yeah, he did call her a bigot. that was a mistake. he should have used language like you suggested. let's be fall with this. her language today is wrong. take a look, she has this video in which she shows the ku klux klan officials. >> lement play that and audience react. >> they the reason a lot of clan members like donald trump because a lot of what he believes we believe in. donald trump will be best for the job for president? >> yeah i am farmer and white nationalist. support donald trump. >> sending out all the illegals, building a wall, and a moratorium on islamic immigration, that's very appealing to a lot of ordinary white people. >> running against donald

trump at this point is really treason to your heritage. >> carl, it's the same thing, is it not? >> yeah, absolutely. in fact you left out the closing line of that is if donald trump gets elected, quote, they could be running the country. that is just laughable. hillary clinton is just gone beyond the edge here on this. this is lunancy. no candidate should be held responsible for the random comments of anonymous supporters whom they have never met and never done anything. now, trump has two vulnerabilities on this. one vulnerability is that he has put in charge of his campaign as a ceo steve bannon whose website breitbart.com has become an acknowledged voice for the alt right. that's a problem and he have to deal with that. the other problem was that early in the campaign david duke came out and said something favorable toward trump and it took trump a couple of days to blown it up. that created an opening for this. cher, introduced hillary clinton at a fundraiser this

week and i think it was marthaens vineyard. called him twice a hitler let me finish. said he was insane. called him a racist. said he reminded her of despots like stalin. she is comparing him to the murder of 6 million jews and what does hillary say when she took the stage? quote, i can't tell you how excited i am to have cher here. so if it was a mistake not to disavow david duke immediately, it's a mistake for hillary clinton not do disavow cher when she was on the same room in the same platform. >> thank you very much. next on the rundown, reaction from the other side of the aisle over the new offensive between the trump and clinton campaigns. that debate moments away. you're earning unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere.

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in the factor follow-up segment tonight, donald trump and hillary clinton's war of words over bigotry. joining us now from chicago with reaction from the left austan goolsbee the former chairman of the economic advisors under president obama. austan, ratcheting up rhetoric, your thoughts, karl rove said this is a bad place to be going. your thoughts? >> look, i don't like it when the campaign goes in this direction. i mean, it's clear that characterization by trump's campaign manager that he doesn't insult anyone else and he doesn't say -- he doesn't launch personal attacks is completely absurd. you see him launching the you're a bigot and it kind of reminds me of the old, the first guy that accused everyone of being a cheater is the guy who is the cheater. >> austan, earlier today, after the original bigot comment, earlier today he said and i'm quoting his words, every policy that hillary clinton is a policy

that failed and betrayed communities of color. is he saying she is a bigot or democratic policies are bigoted? >> when his quote is hillary clinton is a bigot. i think he is saying hillary clinton is a bigot. that's what he said. if all he had or wanted it talk about was let's discuss welfare reform, let's discuss the earned income tax credit and what are urban policies, great. i would have welcomed such a policy. >> are they bigoted? >> no, is he not saying that? how about all these cities, chicago, detroit, baltimore, newark, philadelphia, they are all democratic run and they are all hurting the african-american community. >> they are -- in many of those cities they have low incomes and they have struggled. and when they struggled, absolutely the most was in the horrible recession of 2008 and 2009. so we can have that discussion if you want. >> they are still struggling. you are a very smart man you

are an economist. you know they are not getting better in the last 10 years and 8 of them being under obama. >> last five years they have gotten substantially better. >> in what way poverty. >> poverty rate has fallen? unemployment is coming down for non-african-americans. >> no. in the last five years, you've seen improvement, and we have grown at a modest rate. you have seen improvement for the last five years for sure. >> austan, i'm going to push back on that. young african-americans are out of work at the highest rate they have been in maybe decades. and this is years president obama. >> no. >> incomes aren't up. wages aren't up. unemployment isn't better. >> eric, the thing is this. donald trump is trying to do this because is he trying to get attacks. is he trying to take the focus off of his put the rainbow wig on and put on the groucho marx glasses and pretend like the guy who talked about muslims and who

talked about immigration and who talked about women hispanics, minorities, that other guy from the primaries we don't know what happened to this guy. this is a new trump. i don't think it's going to work. dr. goolsbee have to leave it right there. thank you very much. new developments in the clinton foundation trophy. judicial watch gives us the no spin zone to give us the latest. stay tuned. those hot dogs look good. oh yeah, hebrew national. their all-beef like yours but they're also kosher. so, not just any beef goes into it. oh, honey! oh! here, have some of ours. oh! hebrew national. a hot dog you can trust.

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clinton foundation controversy with new pay to play allegations swirling the clintons are on the defensive with bill clinton now outlining major changes to the foundation if hillary is elected. >> i made it clear if she becomes president we have to do more than we did when she was secretary of state. we will transition all of these responsibilities that would require foreign or corporate donations which i won't accept, and i won't raise money for the foundation if she wins. and i'm happy to do the transition as quickly as we can we have already found partners who want to take hold of some of this stuff. but we have to do it in a way that no one loses their job, no one loses their income and no one loses their -- that's all i'm concerned about. >> meanwhile, there are more questions about a possible fbi investigation into the clinton foundation. i asked clinton cash author peter schweizer about it on the factor last night do you think the fbi is

investigating currently and do you think there should be a special prosecutor? i don't know the exact status of what the fbi is doing right now. i will say earlier this year at their request i sat down with two people from the bureau to talk about some things related to the clinton foundation, specifically things that were in clinton cash there is no question in my mind basedhat they had advance knowledge of the clinton foundation and some of these issues joining me is the president of judicial watch and author of the upcoming book clean house, exposing our government secrets and lies and from miami, julian epstein, a democratic strategist. now, julian, you heard former president clinton saying if hillary wins we are going to make major changes to the foundation. why not now? >> because she is not in a position of official capacity right now. if she becomes an elected official, namely president of the united states, then you have a potential for a conflict of interest. >> it's not a conflict now, julian? you don't think any of the stuff --

>> -- she is not a public official right now. >> she was. >> she is not a public official. >> on 9/19 she was a public official and doing business with both the clinton foundation and stacy. >> anstacy -- and state. >> there were clear rules negotiation laid out between the white house and clinton foundation what rules would govern that conduct. nobody, nobody, nobody, not tom, not anybody else. >> i don't want to get to those. i want to take issue with what you just said the obama administration recommended that hillary clinton set up an advisory board. guess who headed up the advisory board about all the things that she should or should not be able to do. guess who headed that one up? hillary clinton headed that up. tom fitton. >> there was specific agreement between the state department and obama administration about how to conduct business. that was observed. and o none of the state department ethical rules on any matter relating to the clinton foundation was violated. nobody has shown any evidence whatsoever, eric,

that any donation to the clinton foundation was conditioned on access meeting with hillary clinton. there is no there there. >> tom fitton, go ahead, judicial watch. what have you found. >> i don't understand what julian is saying. there is plenty of evidence showing misquick. mrs. clinton promised there would be a bright line between the foundation and the state department. donors to the foundation were able to get special consideration at the state department from former officials at the foundation working for hillary, her two top aides, cheryl mills and huma abedin who shouldn't have been involved in foundation business either at least for the first two years. secondly, you have got the foundation promising specifically to not engage in activity that even created the appearance of a conflict of interest. contrary to partisan talking points being put out by our other guests here, you have the "boston globe" responding negatively to this. calling on the foundation to be shut down. you have front page stories in media outlets across the country that aren't terribly friendly to "judicial watch"or the conservative way of looking at things. and you have got the

clintons themselves running away from the foundation in response to these revelations to try to tamp out the fire. yet, it does not go as far as as they would like to you think it goes because chelsea clinton is going to continue to be on the board of the foundation. she hasn't promised to stop fundraising. they are continuing to be able to take money from foreign corporations and foreign governments right now as this person is running for the presidency. does julian think that's appropriate probably the only person in america who thinks it's appropriate for any candidate for president to take money from foreign nationals. you think it's okay for the russians to give hillary clinton money right now? >> tom, stop the filibuster. would you stop the filibuster? >> do you think it's okay. >> tom, let him answer. >> foreign entities give to the bush administration, to the carter foundation, all kinds of foundations. >> are they running for president? >> the problem with what tom just said in his 45 seconds that were uninterrupted is that he made a lot of general statements and he failed to make any specific statement that would be tied to an ethical rule that showed there was a violation. his biggest, latest new thing, again, which is --

which is a big nothing burger is this allegation that clinton foundation donators, people that donated to the foundation got special access to hillary clinton. there is no evidence whatsoever that the giving of the donation was tied to a meeting. there is nothing that should be unexpected about people that are interested in the clinton foundation also being interested in important matters affecting international affairs that may have legitimate issues before the department of state. and, these donors represented 5% of the total meetings, at least according to the a.p. report, 5% of the total universe of the meetings that the secretary had while she was secretary of state. >> again, again. when you add in all the official business, when you take out the official business, julian, it's over 50% of the non-state department business, 50% of the people who met with hillary clinton ended up becoming donors. tom, let me ask you this. >> that number is wrong. that number is wrong. that number has got to be wrong. >> probably the les partisan

news organization around -- >> -- let me tell you why it's wrong. >> partisan politics in favor of republicans? >> what a.p. is saying, eric is, that secretary clinton had 154 meetings during a period of four years from 2009 to 2012 with nongovernmental officials. that's insane. she probably had that many meetings in a month if you include the journalists she met with, civil society officials she met with. >> julian, come on. now you are filibustering. >> this is ridiculous. >> let me give tom the last word here. tom, you have some judicial watch, you have some news that may be coming out soon. >> we may be getting emails as soon as september 139 on benghazi and the new emails that mrs. clinton unsuccessfully evidently tried to delete but were recovered by the fbi there may be new emails coming out about benghazi and ms. abedin's special government employee status where she worked for the state department and the clinton foundation at the same time which i guess our other go guest has no problem with her doing that and those new emails may be coming out as soon as september 13th. another group has

september 30th. so new benghazi emails and conflict of interest emails next month. >> what i have a problem with -- >> -- julian, i have got to go. i am running up against a hard break. i need to leave it here. if a quick footnote if you would like to hear nor when the emails, mr. fitton is on the contributing factor ipod find on itunes. what do people hate most about what hillary clinton and donald trump are saying in public. exclusive findings right after this. (announcer vo) who says your desk phone

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that's food as it should be. ♪ thanks for staying with us. i'm eric bolling in for bill o'reilly. and in the personal story segment tonight, what americans hate hearing from hillary clinton and donald trump. pollster frank luntz did some exclusive research for the factor working with 24 registered voters in philadelphia to find out what clinton and trump's statements during the campaign upset them most. first up, hillary clinton. >> you know in '76 jimmy carter famously said "i will not lie to you." >> um-huh. well, i have to tell you, i have tried in every way i know how literally from my

years as a young lawyer all the way through my time as secretary of state to level with the american people. >> you talk about leveling with the american people, have you always told the truth. >> i have always tried to, always. always. >> some people are going to call that wiggle room that you just gave yourself, always, tried to. jimmy carter said i will never lie to you. >> you are asking me to say have i ever, i don't believe i ever have. i don't believe i ever have. i don't believe i ever will. >> joining us now in studio with more. frank luntz, wow. falling off the edge of that chart there. we have done hours and hours, probably now about 30 hours worth of speeches of the candidates. and another 500 ads and that is the worst response we have ever tested. and it is simple. you either tell the truth or you don't. you don't try to. it's not your intent to. you do or you don't. and the question that scott pelley asked her, at least jimmy carter said i will never lie to you. so they look at that and say

you know what? she is not authentic. she is not honest and that's why two thirds of americans don't believe she has the integrity to be president of the united states. >> let's take a listen to another hillary clinton and see how she did it with the dials on this one. >> i remember landing under sniper fire. there was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport but, instead, we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base. >> problem is, that's not what happened. and we should know. cbs news accompanied the first lady and daughter chelsea on that bosnia trip. that's senator clinton talking to me on the military flight and these are the pictures we recorded of the greeting ceremony when the plane landed. compare that to senator clinton's account. >> i remember landing under sniper fire. there was no greeting ceremony and we basically were told to run to our cars. now, that is what happened. >> well, look at that, frank, even the democrats on the bottom, the grown number, they were even more disappointed with hillary's answer. >> here's what i don't

understand. you have those two amazing examples and i don't hear anything from the trump campaign. why aren't they talking about it? why aren't they showing it? why aren't they part of the ads? why aren't they part of the town halls? why aren't they anything over the last 48 thundershowers hillary clinton has been under systemic attack for her integrity that is actually working. what is donald trump doing? is he insulting her and calling her a bigot in mississippi of all places. a state that if he can't win, then is he going to lose in the biggest landslide ever. i don't understand that campaign. >> this one, this whole bigot thing seemed to rest resonate. she is hitting back at donald trump she doesn't that to stick. >> that will never stick. they have changed the issue for 48 hours it was her emails and improper behavior of the clinton global initiative. now suddenly the issue has changed and she is loving every minute of it. i know that you're viewers, i know what they care about this campaign. and i know what they want to have happen.

i'm sorry, unless donald trump gets his act together and unless that campaign starts to focus on what voters really care about which is the integrity of the next president then he are going to lose. you have one more. >> let's see how trump did. >> have you ever been to arlington cemetery? go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending united states of america. you will see all faiths, genders, and ethnicities. [ applause ] you have sacrificed nothing and no one. >> how would you answer that father? what sacrifice you have made for your country? >> i think i have made a lot of sacrifices. i work very, very hard. i have created thousands and thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs. i think. >> those are sacrifices? >> oh, sure, i think they are sacrifices. i think when i can employ

thousands and thousands of people, take care of their education, take care of so many things, even in military i was very responsible along with a group of people for getting the vietnam memorial built in downtown manhattan which to this day people thank me for. >> no surprise the dems fall off the map too. >> the dems i learned something from my mom when my father passed away. as much pain as you feel right now losing your dad there is nothing worse than a parent having to bury their child. i don't know if he doesn't understand about that. i'm sorry, but creating jobs in new york city from the trump tower is not the same sacrifice, regardless of that couple's religion, regardless of whatever they have said, when you lose your son as an american hero, then you are missing something. this is what i don't understand. once again, it is as though he and the campaign are tone deaf on this very show, we showed that clip of the khan family speaking.

it was the top clip of the democratic convention. and, yet, he still goes after them. >> no. no i think he realized after did he that because he had a great convention. remember, he had just come off of a great convention where he actually took the lead. >> then my recommendation -- >> -- this happened. >> he watches this show. my recommendation to you, mr. trump, is that at the opening of the debates on september 26th, you explicitly apologize to the khan family and to john mccain and then you turn to her and say, madam secretary, do you apologize to the parents of the young men who were killed in bengals because you didn't reacted? do you apologize to the millions of americans who have you have mislead through your foundation? if he does that. >> maybe you can work with the campaign. >> i don't want to work. >> debate prep. go to trump power. >> my job is to listen to the american people. >> i have got to go. frank, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> donald trump accelerating his shift on illegal immigration. is it too late to make a

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. in the election 2016 segment tonight, donald trump's softening on illegal immigration. last night trump gave new details about how he'd handle illegal immigrants in the country. >> they'll pay back taxes. they have to pay taxes. there's no amnesty. there's no amnesty. but we work with them. now, okay. when i look at the -- i had this all over. everybody agrees we get the bad ones out. but when i go through and i meet thousands and thousands of people on the subject, and i've had very strong people come up to me, really great, great people come up to me. and they've said, mr. trump, i love you. but to take a person that's been here for 15 or 20 years and throw them and the family out,

it's so tough, mr. trump. i mean i have it all the time. it's a very, very hard thing. >> trump is appearing to back away from his previous calls to deport all illegal immigrants from the country. but will this have a positive impact with his voters. joining us with reaction, chris wilson, former advisor to the cruz presidential campaign, along with jack kingston, a senior advise eor to the trump campaign. chris, your thoughts on this. i heard donald trump right there in that sound bite say this isn't about amnesty. but, you know, in this sense, is amnesty only about citizenship? talk to me. >> what it is, is i understand what the trump campaign is trying to do. they're trying to soften the rhetoric. they're trying to pivot for a general election, and i get that. but the challenge i think exists here is the promises that donald trump made during the primary and what that is now becoming for the general election. and this is what's wrong with politics, and frankly it's why donald trump is the nominee.

it's because the republican primary electorate was so tired of electing someone who promised something and then pivoted to a softer position in the general election or, even worse, did nothing at all once they got elected. and trump campaigned against that. he took strong stands against it. he did a great job of tapping into an angry republican primary electorate. now he's doing what the people who elected him are angry about, which is changing the position. i think politically it's a smart thing for him to do. >> why isn't that good enough, then? if politically, the right decision, you'd want to go with the politically correct decision, wouldn't you? >> not necessarily. i think sometimes you make a promise to voters, and there's value in living up to that. that's what senator cruz. he said donald trump was fooling the voters. he was trying to take the brand and slap his brand on the political process the same way he did in water and steaks and wine and everything else. it falls apart. that's what happened here. the promises he made to the -- >> jack, is chris right in saying he came out with a

platform early in the campaign, and he has to stick with it all the way through the general election? >> i think he is sticking with it. i think he's been consistent on a couple of very, very important points. number one, enforcing existing laws, which by the way is going to dry up the job magnets because that means employers need to quit hiring illegals. number two, he's been very consistent about a wall, maybe not bricks and mortars, but a wall that will keep people from coming into the border illegally. and number three, no amnesty, which is probably the biggest issue with the republican base. hillary clinton is a pro-am nessty person. another part of this is prote protecting american jobs because he has said repeatedly that illegals undercut -- >> everyone says that, though. that's pretty consistent all along the gop, the line, is that illegals take jobs away from americans. talk to me, jack. you just said -- you said two things provocatively, that not necessarily bricks and mortar wall. i do this for a living here, and i thought it was a bricks and mortar wall, number one.

and, number two, when you say no amnesty and you let illegals stay, isn't that a form of amnesty? >> well, let me address the wall first. as you know, the wall has been voted on many times for many years by members of the house. it's been killed in the senate. but i think in some areas, it is totally sufficient to have a cyberwall. but he has been pretty consistent about a wall, a wall, a wall. so i don't think he's backing off of that whatsoever. number two, on amnesty, he's saying no amnesty. but he's also saying let's do this in a humane and orderly way. so he wants to get the bad actors out and start with them, and then move down the line. i think without the jobs here, because you're enforcing existing laws, you're going to have less motivation for people to want to come here or to stay here because the laws say you can't be here. >> chris, i'm going to take a little issue with you here. look, you guys on the left -- not on the left. i'm the left. but also the no trump people have said, look, he's doing it

wrong. this is too hard core for the gop. the gop needs to encompass more diversity, and now he says, i'm at least thinking about softening my stance. and now you don't like it this way either. >> first of all, let me be clear. i'm not never trump. i would love to be able to vote for donald trump. what i can't vote for is someone who takes a position on -- >> what is it, chris? you just said, i'd like to vote for trump. what's the issue with trump you can't vote for him? >> because i don't think he's a conservative. i think he did exactly what he was accused of doing in the primary when he did the secret meeting with "the new york times"s that was taped. he made the comment this is all an act. i will never do this. i won't build a wall. this is all something i'm saying because i have to win a primary. to me, that is what is wrong with politics. if that is how donald trump won the nomination, under false pretensions, no, he shouldn't be elected president. >> gentlemen, thank you very much. when we come right back, can donald trump successfully extend his outreach to minorities and women? dana perino has some very

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in the back of the book segment tonight, trump and his campaign are making the hard sell to minority and women voters that he has something to offer them with his campaign manager kellyanne conway making the case earlier today. >> i've known donald trump for a long time. i respect his business record. i respect the fact that even before he promoted me to this position, he's been promoting and advancing women in the trump corporation for decades. people of color, people from very different countries across the world, both genders obviously, all walks of life. that's very compelling to me because i like to assess people by what they do, not by what they say. and it's particularly important in politics where everybody has a lot to say. >> joining us now to analyze, dana perino. are they making the case? are they making the case well enough? >> well, they're going to try to make the case. i just think that, you know, i'm all for trying to make the case. it's coming at a very late date

in the campaign. and he has -- donald trump is underperforming with every demographic. so i'm for reaching out to latinos and african-americans and women and whoever else he might want to try to reach out to. at this point in the campaign, i would imagine that kellyanne conway is looking at the math and saying, okay, how do we get to 270 electoral votes and where can we find enough african-americans or latinos in order to make a difference? >> is it latinos, is it women or is it african-americans? one of these groups -- >> he's underperforming with all of them. >> so which is the one he should go after? >> i think in some ways, perhaps what kellyanne conway is doing is trying to convince college-educated white women, which have usually voted gop, but have gone against donald trump in the last several months, trying to convince them that he's not the cruel man that you think that he is, that he does have better policy ideas than hillary clinton. but then again, i think that it's a little bit like whistling past a graveyard. an latinos in particular, there's just some raw numbers they have to look at.

in 2000, george w. bush won 40% of the hispanic vote. 44% in 2004. after that, it started backsliding for the gop to the point that romney needed 40%, 35% to 40% of the hispanic vote in order to win. he got 27%. donald trump is polling at under 20%, and demographers say he probably needs at least 40% in order to try to win. if you look at those key battleground states, colorado, nevada, ohio, north carolina, there are a lot more hispanic voters. and this kind of outreach cannot erase what has already been on tape and in tweets. >> it's been talked about lately. it's bubbling up a little bit more, the factor that -- i don't even know what they call it. it's a trump factor where people, when they're polled, won't say they would be willing to vote for trump, but they'll hang up the phone and -- >> secretly vote for trump? >> yeah. >> there might be some of that there. the quinnipiac poll that came out today has hillary clinton at the magical number of 50%.

the things that could change in the next few weeks are the debates in particular and also the ads. i think donald trump has to be worried about that a little bit. hillary clinton decided to go after him today, trying to tie him to a racist alt right. he tried to push back in a rebuttal, which i think was somewhat effective. >> why did she do that? >> i think some people have suggested that hillary clinton did that because they are trump is making inroads with the minority voters. >> right. >> i don't believe that for one second. i think she wants to bury the republican party, and she is using this fringe, racist, and bigoted alt-right movement to try to do that, to try to paint anybody that calls himself a republican as part of that group and that he opened the door to them. i don't know if that is true. i don't think it's fair, and i have fought against anybody suggesting that the republicans are racist my entire career. but i think what she's trying to do is -- >> does softening on his

deportation stance, that doesn't solve some of the issues he has with -- with women? >> it might. i think that's what kellyanne conway is going for because a lot of married white women in particular and college-educated women, had gone for republicans in the past. this time around, he's polling so badly with them. the thing is women and other voters say, i don't trust either one of them. actually they trust him a lot more than they trust her. the quinnipiac poll, she's at a minus 66%. that is -- i don't know how she comes back from that. but if you look at the measurements of is she competent, does she have the temperament and judgment, she's beating him there. can he turn that around? and giving a rally in mississippi with a white audience talking about african-american issues, doesn't make sense. >> that was the issue they all had with donald trump, right? give your speech to african-americans and minorities. >> and ben carson says he's going to do that, so that might be able to get him at least some good press. >> dana, thank you so much. that's it for us tonight.

thanks for watching. i'm eric bolling in for bill o'reilly. please remember the spin stops here because we're looking out for you. breaking tonight, just 74 days before americans head to the polls, and the white house race is taking an ugly new turn. perhaps unlike anything we've ever seen before with charges of bigotry and racism now coming from both sides. welcome to "the kelly file," everyone. i'm megyn kelly. today both hillary clinton and donald trump hit the campaign trail and delivered stinging rebukes of the other's record. mr. trump went up first, offering a prebut al of sorts to hillary clinton, who reports indicated was preparing to level a series of disturbing accusations against him and his far-right supporters. and boy, oh boy, did she ever. here is just a sampling of what the two had to say earlier today.