who's had chickenpox? scoot over. and look that nasty rash can pop up anywhere and the pain can be even worse than it looks. talk to your doctor or pharmacist. about a vaccine that can help prevent shingles. ♪ >> how about a little labor on this labor day. hope you're having a fabulous one. this is "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today is sandra smith. co-host of "after the bell," melissa francis. i like the sunshine earings, an democratickic strategist julie roginsky. today's #oneluckyguy, campaign veteran tony sayegh and he is outnumbered. >> no better team to labor with on labor day with all of you. julie: i don't want to hear about being in labor ever again.

>> we shall have a fun day. sandra: it is one of those shows. harris: let's move. we'll begin with holiday barbecues, maybe a last run to the beach. final hours dwindling down. americans will pay closer attention to the battle for the white house. that is how it typically lays out. with 63 days until the election what must hillary clinton and donald trump do to up their games? what states do they need to focus on? where should they be spending resources as she -- they try to seal the deal with voters. tony, what do they need? >> this is most intense prelabor day period campaign in modern history. this is the unofficial start of intense attention to the campaigns. i think the candidates definitely are full throttle since the convention. you having said with that, donald trump.

you see donald trump expanding beyond traditional swing states are ohio and florida and virginia. he gotten the state into race like michigan, wisconsin, iowa, which george w. bush won in 2004 but no republican had won frankly in a long time since ronald reagan in 1984. why you see him expanding media buying into states like new hampshire. george w. bush would not be president in 2000 if not for the state of florida. we focus on happening chads in florida. there is always a narrow electoral pathway for republicans. donald trump found a way to expand it enough hillary clinton, she will try to stop him in pennsylvania, where you see tim kaine spending a lot of time and probably ohio. florida, donald trump is looking really good these past polls. harris: national polls, julie, in the last few days are showing a different trend. there is only one double-digit lead by hillary clinton that is quinnepiac. everything else they're within five to seven points of each other. one has donald trump ahead of hillary clinton. things are starting to get, i

know we use the word tighten, they're at least starting to get very interesting. but tony brings up a good point. most people look at the swing states. as you look at those, look what is happening per tony said, what do you think? >> i think tony knows as well as i do we both do this for a living you have to maximize ad dollars put them in places like new hampshire and michigan there is no chance. iowa the exception where he is competitive. i think huge waste of resources if i were advising him i would, iowa is good place to invest. florida is must-win for him. virginia is pretty much gone. north carolina is must win for him. i wouldn't, just because he think he is expanding the map, doesn't mean the map is expanded. that is the problem for donald trump. he needs to stop drinking his kool-aid and invest in places he can win. harris: iowa was good one. remember at the democratic convention -- sandra: i remember so much from the democratic convention.

harris: so did iowa, they wanted votes to be finished counting before, between bernie and hillary. we never did find out who won iowa, did we? >> they never gave that count. they gave hillary the superdelegate. sandra: what about this concept of an october surprise? is that in the cards? >> so in keeping with the fact that has been probably the whackiest presidential election we've had in long time i don't think there is any doubt there will be october surprise. usually there is surprise something may or may not happen. in 2004, bin laden releasing a tape days before the election and people felt that worked to george w. bush's benefit. we know julian assange, founder of wikileaks he is holding on to several emails suggesting that some have information that could work in hillary clinton's favor. i will readjust slightly and say one thing donald trump has done which not many republicans have,

not just media ads and traditional classic ways of campaigning is, he is running a 50-state campaign. he was in washington state for example. he is not playing that old generic republican playbook where you only focus on battleground. you're right, julie from strategic point of value you have to have resources allocated to certain places. he expanded this election in a way becoming one of the first 50-state elections we've had. harris: kind of a "star trek" mission to go where no other man has gone before. donald trump days ago in mexico south of the border. you have him reaching out to the black community. why do you think he doesn't get as much credit as he is earning among people of color la? melissa: that remains to be seen. i'm not sure outreaches are getting votes from minorities. i think it is about making middle feel together about his politics that he is not that extreme. what make this is race so much different than ones before, tony stole some of my talking points

there, i really think this is about the variables that are out there that an elections recently we haven't seen this late in the game. i mean there is the julian assange wildcard that's out there. there is the debate. we'll talk about that coming up later. that is a huge wildcard. normally we think we know what we'll see from candidates here. we don't have any idea. the outrage over the foundation is really building to a crescendo when you see "new york times" come out do an op-ed saying that the democratic candidate is in the wrong on this one. you see more and more people coming over to the side, i wouldn't be surprised if we see a leading democrat at some point say, you know what? you're on the wrong side of this. you need to mothball the foundation. harris: is it too late to do that though? will that thwart the ability for the american people to learn what really went on there? sandra: don't forget, gop chairman, reince priebus said he believed trump would be leading hillary clinton nationally by

labor day or shortly after. we're at that point they're not there. so, how much of a strategy shift or how much do they have to relook at their campaign, we are not where we were supposed to be or thought we would be? >> i actually suggest, sandra they're on much better trajectory than hillary clinton is past three weeks where they have had a lot of message discipline. donald trump is getting into more detail about certain policy positions. you're seeing concentration on clinton foundation issue. to your point, melissa, not just coming from the traditional people on the right. ap reporting she met with. secretary of state being mostly clinton foundation donors. no, times editorial page. you see a huge shift in the numbers. nationally "the l.a. times" poll, reuters tracking and upi shown this race either within one points or three points. donald trump picked up close to 8 points. melissa: she is way ahead in front and opponent closes close. only question when the voting

happens do they overtake her. sandra: potentially pivotal moment coming up as you suggested, melissa. the very first presidential debate of 2016 is weeks away. hillary clinton and donald trump will go head-to-head on september 26th. it is the first of three debates. we're told the democratic nominee is trying to find triggers to get under trump's skin to provoke him to have outburst on live television. trump is staying away from mock debates, taking more after freewheeling approach as questions grow whether he needs to be more measured as he faces off with a woman. some are questioning whether leaking these strategies is part an attempt to rattle the other side before debates actually begin. sort of a preblame buildup. so if we were looking for a pivotal moment potentially debate night, first debate night, what do you think, tony? >> absolutely and i think, you made this point earlier, you have seen donald trump obviously be able to shift the direction of this race very quickly

because he is so unpredictable. i think in these debates i think you will see potential of donald trump casting himself as the person who can be president, not this wacky guy who says all these bombastic things. much like reagan a la 1980, when he approached podium, took the stage, he was in command of facts, he was composed, measured, wasn't the cowboy with his finger on trigger he was painted by carter campaign. think in trump many ways has natural advantages going into the debate. sandra: julie what does hillary's debate prep look like? trump points out he rose the top of the field of 17 in primary. he was strong on the debate stage and she will have to face him. julie: he was. he has to be bombastic because he had to stand out among 17 candidates. not all 17 were on the stage but nevertheless, tony is right he has to appear measured and presidential.

her goal, i have no idea what is gone with her debate prep. i know her people, she has some of the best prep candidates and they are amazing she will want to tweak him. she will want to rattle him, you're not as rich as we want people to believe, right? you're not as healthy as you want people to believe. all the stuff goes to him personally. once his personal vanity is wounded he feels the need to lash out and discipline is gone. kellyanne conway, laura ingraham, others prepping him need to make sure, my understanding he is not doing any formal kind of debate prep. i think that is huge mistake because of the fact they need to do that. harris: who knows what he will do. >> he is saying he is not sure he will do that. that is massive, massive problem. they need to throw the scenarios at him. harris: he did well in the primary season but he had real debaters. chris christie is no shlump. >> marco rubio. harris: marco rubio.

he had real debaters. bernie sanders, damn emails. what kind of griffith was he? right? she is a great debater but looking for somebody who came out of the ring. sandra: fair point, will he want to talk about those darn emails up on the debate stage. melissa: i think he wants to talk about the emails. he should really hone in on the foundation. i think their excuse so far has been paying for access is normal this is goes on in washington. donna brazile yielded the ground which was absolutely amazing. democrats and hillary clinton, she has gone out there against trump she is for the little guy, for the disenfranchised. then on the other hand saying paying for access is normal. that flies in the face of everything she is supposed to stand for. i think he you should go after her on that again and again and again. why are you taking these millions of dollars? why are you selling access which she has admitted to? they say they're not selling favors, just selling access. oh, my gosh, who can afford that in this country?

if you're supposed to be about minorities, poor, disenfranchised minimum wage, everything she has actually done flies in the face what she has said and he should go after that. sandra: everybody is waiting for the moment, tony, take to the stage and face each other, there they are. how do you even predict that begins? they are going to shake hands. it will be cordial encounter. that debate begins, what sets it off? >> well i think you are going to see hillary clinton do what she has been doing all along, make this all about donald trump. what that unfortunately leads to is very mean-spirited approach. harris: can he not take that bait? >> i think he will be at least prepared for it. i would suggest, not underestimate him that he can keep himself obviously from taking the bait. also, hillary clinton has tendency to run for valedictorian. wants to prove how smart she is. she is smart. we're not denying that. she is not stacy flick in the movie "election."

sandra: reese reese witherspoon? >> everybody watch it. harris: it's a great film. it is high school though decidedly. julie: great move individual. sandra: we're looking forward to the first debate, issue seems to rear its head in every election cycle, voter fraud. why your party affiliation may be a big factor whether you believe this is big problem or not. what this all means this election year. anyone up for studying so-called white fragility and white guilt? apparently so in one major city where government-run classes sold out. you but is it truly the best way to spend tax dollars? ♪ i have asthma... ...one of many pieces in my life. so when my asthma symptoms kept coming back on my long-term control medicine. i talked to my doctor and found a missing piece in my asthma treatment with breo. once-daily breo prevents asthma symptoms. breo is for adults with asthma not well controlled on a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid.

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melissa: as we move closer to election day a major split along party lines when it comes issue of voter fraud. a recent "gallup poll" asks voters if they are concerned about ineligible voters casting ballots. more than a third, 36%, see it's a major problem. 2/3 see it minot problem and 29% not a problem at all.

52% of republicans see it a major problem. only 26% of democrats agree. 80% of voters say they think a picture i.d. should be required to vote, compare to 19% who oppose it. along party lines. 95% of republicans support requiring i.d. to vote compared to 63% of democrats. let's start with that issue, because, julie, my kids have to have an i.d. in order to go take a test. i took my 5-year-old for a kindergarten test. i had to picture i.d. for him. that seemed ridiculous. he couldn't take the test without it. why wouldn't you not need i.d. to vote? julie: i would be for i.d. to vote make it easier for people without means. you need a driver's license or a birth certificate which a lot of people, especially older people living in poverty don't have access to anymore. some people don't have driver's licenses. they can't afford to get a state issued i.d. if we made voter

i.d.s and means to get them cost effective for people, i have no problem with it. north carolina voter i.d. law essentially thrown out because they disenfranchise people i talk about, people larkly rural, poor and minority for that reason because they don't have access to some of these forms of i.d. you would need to get to vote. so that's the problem for me. melissa: you need that for almost everything. julie: not a constitutional right. harris: go to the hospital, need emergency care, you have to prove you know your first name. you need some sort of identification, to prove you are actually who you say you are. julie: not unless you're dying. harris: if you're walking into the e.r. you need some sort of identification, why is it offensive at polling station not at hospital? by the way if you're carted into polling station on stretcher you don't have to show i.d. julie: i have no problem with it intellectually. my problem is practically. the people who don't have the

money to get some sort of i.d. to vote. melissa: you can get a social security card. go online, at the library. >> in new york city, bill de blasio one of his first programs so everybody in new york feels like they're part of the city, has a city-wide i.d. program free and, look first part of your argument i think is very valid and also very fixable problem. there should be i.d. laws make it affordable, easy to access having i.d. the problem when you go to the rhetoric around this from a lot of democrats further on the left they just think the idea, period, of having to show an i.d. is racist. they think it's a poll tax. they think it is something that could potentially lead to intimidation of from actually physically voting. julie: i don't agree with that at all. >> that is one of the odd rationales why it is crazy we are still having conversation as something important as fundamental can't be protected showing it is you. sandra: tony you hear

donald trump talk a lot about this that election could be rigged against him. how does that argument play for him? >> took it plays as we see in the polling elements of the republican party who do fear that 52% at least, voter fraud, that it is a major issue. it does get the base fired up a little bit. if you remember from 2008, the whole acorn kind of fiasco, that occurred in about a dozen swing states. when people make the blanket statement voter i.d. doesn't affect anything it is not true. there are a handful of states critical, particularly in presidential election where even change of 10 to 20,000 votes can impact -- melissa: for myself i gone to polling places in new york. i walk in. i don't know if you're registered here. they handed me ballot. and i checked it, chucked it in open bin behind them. i'm certain that my vote didn't count, i was with my kids in florida. covering election last time around. at a polling place, i don't know if the man was taunting me,

bringing in from different districts, said my district is voting obama no matter what. he winked at me maybe because i was from fox and trying to antagonize me. these are kinds of things that really make you feel like it is not very high-tech in different places and not necessarily guarded. harris: but it isn't very high-tech. not just the way you feel, it is truthful. those of us who live in smaller communities some are high-tech and some aren't. what that looks like. now the question is it politically a live with one group or another? that is important question to ask. harris: if we get anything write in this country ought to be about democracy of our voting days. as much as we say percentage of the population don't vote, why don't we encourage giving that right. what does that look like? we might have to man some stations. sandra: harris monitor our online presence a lot on facebook and "outnumbered overtime" chats exists constantly people writing in about concern for voter fraud. harris: that is real.

julie: i'm worried about putin hacking into voter systems. harris: you think having identification -- julie: no different issue. if we're talking about voter fraud. harris: we have 11 million plus undocumented people in this country. identification is probably important not just for voting day. >> correct. melissa: so much for that recovery. despite the obama administration's claim our economy is back on track, staggering numbers show how many americans actually have negative wealth. plus does this election season have you feeling a little lonely? how different opinions of the 2016 race are affecting friendships and how to keep the peace. ♪

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harris: i try. never mind being unemployed or having a low-paying job. a new survey finds one in seven households actually has negative wealth, which is when someone's debt exceeds their assets. this even applies for people with good-paying jobs. the reasons for this include, credit card debt, big mortgages, and student loan debt. all right, money. this actually explains a disconnect when you give us raw numbers unemployment and looks like the economy is tooking along this way but everybody feels something different. this is that spelled out i would imagine? melissa: absolutely. mortgage debt is something we're used to. our parents had that. we know how that goes. credit card debt is overwhelming how wages lagged behind everything else in this recovery. that is really tough thing. wages have not risen, because so many people unemployed in your job, you can be replaced.

wages have not gone up. student debt is huge problem for -- harris: bernie sanders. not makg decisions about what to study and how much debt to take on. looking what my job will be later? will be able to pay this back? is it worth it? a lesson people aren't taking. they're studying philosophy and spending a fortune on it and, i will never, professional philosopher doesn't pay that well. harris: talking about, and i remember the days of career counselor, figure out what you want to be and whether or not there are jobs in that field. you can still do your dream but might work double hard to do both. sandra: figure out what college you can afford. i'm not against people going where you want to go and spend whatever they want to do that, be prepared for that what does to your life and financial goals going forward. the middle group, debt over

12,000 and $50,000, melissa, to your point, mostly student loan debt and people are paying back that student loan debt slower and slower. because they think, you know what? i will make money later on. it is tough to catch up. it is a cyclical thing. harris: so i have to ask, i want to press in, with bernie sanders and his offering to, you know, wipe away everybody's debt and give all. melissa: sounded lovely, free college at all. harris: why does that get pushback among republicans and fiscal conservatives? what do we do to help people with the debt? sandra: what happens to the college he had in this country when you're promising it for free? that is the bottom line. who is paying for it? that is what republicans want to ask, who is going to pay for that? who will be on the hook for it? melissa: more importantly i will add, federal reserve, every dollar of aid you give away, price of college goes up 65 cents.

inflation of the price goes up. harris: i want to come back to the politics of this though because where does that leave us, the taxpayers? are we in fact responsible for helping lift up the economy with that student debt? how do we get rid of it? >> you also heard from melissa's perspective, it doesn't help student debt or bring down the cost of private education. you look at the same thing as you have seen with obamacare real quickly, socialize something, you think will bring down costs, we're seeing every day costs among inshoulders are going higher. some insurers are going out of the little marketplaces they created. same thing in private education. you bring up a god point, sandra. culturally, generationally, we go to the place where we spend based on future earnings. we spend on what we think we're going to have. sandra: good to dream but be realistic. >> politically i do want to say because the right question harris, is, when you think about eight years of barack obama, came in on the whole message of

hope and change and see statistics about this and wages being low and costs going up and people say our kids will not have as much of a future as we did, the only thing changing people are giving up hope. that is problem when you don't have growing economy to allow the private sector to create the dynamic. harris: i want to get julie in here. because president obama ran on hope. julie: he did. 25 years ago i moved into freshman year dorm, credit card companies literally lining up to give away credit cards to 18-year-olds who had zero ability to pay the credit cards back. people were getting them like crack. sandra: $500 limit. julie: doesn't matter. i know people got four or five, ran up insane debts. ended up completely bankrupting themselves by end of freshman year in college. awful. sandra: this is fact. student loan debt in this country right now is above $1.4 trillion.

we wonder why consumer is still struggling. as the 2016 race rolls on a growing number of people say support of one of the candidates causing them to lose friends, often over arguments on social media sites like facebook of the site says there have been billions of posts and comments on the election. many say they have been defriend. isn't it unfriended or defriended or done defriending themselves. a professor is giving tips to keep the peace. use civilized decor rum in your political posts. take a breath and think it through before commenting or unfriending someone. pose questions instead of sharp opinion statements. this will all be over in november and your friendships should and could outlast next presidential term. many friendships on thin ice as we go towards the election day. if you say you haven't had this

conversation with a friend or loved one, you're lying. i heard this from many people this election cycle, they don't follow this person anymore. can't look at their social media posts because they can't believe outspoken they are. harris: marriages that are in trouble over this. it is very sad. it is very sad. melissa: unbelievable phenomenon. harris: you know why? the narrative this is the most election in our lifetime, most important election in our lifetime is driving people to rethink their entire existence. maybe they should. maybe man married wrong woman, who knows. julie: more than that these candidates on the both sides are most loathed candidates at least in modern history. if you're a democrat who really thinks donald trump is anti-christ, you can't imagine how any one of your friends can could support the antichrist. if you're a republican you can't see how any rational person. tony and i made a great point.

we'll be friends and drink martinis together. harris: more martinis better friendship? >> that is my recommendation. julie: saying hillary clinton is best thing on earth. >> i don't remember that ever happening. melissa: it is not polite to talk about religion or politics at dinner or at parties. harris: i like her. melissa: she is real estate broker, martha thorn in florida, everybody needs to like her to keep all her clients. there is something to that though. it makes the dinner conversation very tense, religion and politics. these are things people are passionate about. sandra: i don't recommend that. this upside and revealing to who your friends and family really are. >> clarify if you have facebook friends and twitter followers. harris: doesn't tell you who you are. just reveals your character. >> i will say this is happening though at a point where our political, kind of discourse has been the most divisive it has ever been.

this is not an opinion. this is actual fact that's been studied. blame whoever you want to blame. we'll all associate the person we like the least, barack obama, for that, subliminal, but reality is, i do think tone matters and i think if you're going to offer an opinion you can say it respectfully and respect that somebody else has difference of opinion. the fact is we don't try to really change each other's minds. we respect the fact that we do have different opinions. julie: you know what is the problem here? social media is so as toxic people truly think they live in the social media bubble everybody thinks way they do. they don't understand real lives that have nothing to do with your politics. harris: i wholeheartedly agree with that. what you said is so critical, trying to figure out, when two people argue they're trying to figure out who is right when they discuss, in my book they're trying to figure out what's right and trying to get to the zone. >> true. sandra: happy labor day, everybody.

thanks for joining us. not yet, much more to come. your tax dollars may be going to this. classes on so-called white fragility. where this is stirring outrage. plus it is him or ver? could using wrong pronoun be a violation of federal law. new questions of pc overreach where one university is on the hot seat. my belly pain and constipation? they keep telling me "drink more water." "exercise more." i know that. "try laxatives..." i know. believe me. it's like i've. tried. everything! my chronic constipation keeps coming back. i know that. tell me something i don't know. (vo) linzess works differently from laxatives. linzess treats adults with ibs with constipation, or chronic constipation. it can help relieve your belly pain, and lets you have more frequent and complete bowel movements that are easier to pass. do not give linzess to children under 6 and it should not be given to children 6 to 17. it may harm them. don't take linzess if you have a bowel blockage.

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is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifetime of work that blazes the path to your passions? your personal success takes a financial partner who values it as much as you do. learn more at tiaa.org ♪ melissa: taxpayer dollars going towards classes on so-called white fragility. of course, this is in seattle. it is designed to teach white people why they can't handle anything to do with race. tickets at $60 each reportedly selling out. the woman teaching the course, a professor who happens to be white herself and defines white fragility as quote, a state which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range

of defensive moves. julie: what does that mean? melissa: triggering has become a trigger word for me. when i hear triggering, ow oh, this conversation is going off the rails. julie, what do you think of this? julie: i read this article vii times. melissa: to try to understand it. julie: i don't get it. reading on the screen i still don't get it. i'm white. i don't even understand, what is the defensive moves? i don't get it. melissa: this is another professor working on similar thing, says because of their position of privilege and accustomed racial comfort, whites will display racial arrogance, denying, debating, trivializing racism or critical thought regarding racial conflict. you can't understand. you're white so you can't understand. there is something to that though. >> continuation of the whole white privilege argument and movement, that you have so much you don't understand how hard it is for other people. look, you know what? these all could very well be legitimate social concerns. i'm not so sure taxpayers have

to accommodate the teaching of these lessons. so that is where i read an article like this, like you, julie, am marginally confused. like in my own head, what is the public good that requires a taxpayer, hard-working taxpayer already stretched, municipalities in states going bankrupt because of already their prefixed obligations and 10 pensions and stuff to toss in class, charging, is obviously subsidy, if taxpayers are going to be pay for it, white people feel like because you're white you just don't understand how the world works. harris: i am concerned. i think race relations in this country are really stretched right now. we're not getting nitty-gritty of real issues, like classes and safe spaces. get to the nitty-gritty, what is bothering people. how do we get at that. sandra: what do you think?

harris: be honest and calm an respectful. ask a lot of great questions. like any kind of adult conflict resolution, if you're fighting over something, what do you do to resolve that? you stop fighting and start talking, quit hashtagging. sandra: the class that is controversial that we're talking about it or sold out? what are people looking for? harris: they want to talk. they want a place to talk about the issues. it is in the forefront. we hashtagged ourselves. people in the streets. you've got police officer officers being shot, you have a lot of stuff going on in the country and still have a black president who will every now and then weigh in and out of certain issues. it is something to talk about. the sold out nature they're looking for place how to discuss it. that we need the discussion. julie: in all seriousness i think i get what this is about, walking in other people's shoes. reality as mother of a white boy he will not be subject to certain things that a block boy would be subjected to. that is reality of living in america today. people may not like it but that

is the case. so i think the longer and stronger we are about having that honest discussion, people may like it. they may not like it. certainly, a lot of people won't agree with what i just said. i certain believe he has certain advantages a black boy wouldn't growing up in the country. more we talk about, better for everybody involved on both sides. harris: what does this say to me. what does it say to you. sandra: i don't know. i was deferring to you on that. taxpayer dollars being spent, we're criticizing that fact, there is demand for it. >> to take one point of view. if it was to have a honest conversation, open forum, dialogue, maybe you could say there is some subject good being fulfilled. this is one side, one opinion, academic thought taxpayers are forced to pay for. harris: it is opportunity. if sandra is right an signing up and sold out class maybe opportunity to talk about broader issues rather than fragility or whatever. okay, still no rest for the pc

police. we'll go on with this. "the daily caller," that west virginia university telling 29,000 students they may be violating title ix, if they don't address individuals using pronounce consistent with their gender identity. for students in doubt what pronounce to use the university is offering a handy guide. here it is. ve, replaces he. ver, replaces him. never heard this. this replaces his. sandra: i'm so confused. harris: this one under the new rules, the sentence, his eyes gleam, which i never would say, now becomes air eyes gleems. the school reported that interrupted use of wrong pronounce as title ix violation, was wrong. it was offering guidance and sensitivities of those identify as gender other than one they were born with. tony.

>> title ix is federal law. if there is issue with that, i imagine that would have come down from the federal government. i'm a i think you all know me well. i'm a pretty happy, go lucky, sensitive guy. i don't want to make you alienated or weird put this is just weird. this is where we go to such ex they don't exist, that goes to your point, distract from issues that do exist. and that's why i really get bothered when i hear stories. julie: may i raise really easy solution to this, caitlyn jenner identifies as bruce jenner for example? harris: yes. julie: bruce jenner identified as man you referred to him as he. when caitlyn jenner became a she you started referring to her as she. if they have a sex change, no longer as woman refer to them as man. harris: seems simple. julie: why you inventing new words. if they don't, identify with,

identify them by the gender they identify themselves with. it is not difficult. harris: i wonder, sandra, does this cause us to pay more attention how different they are? constantly focusing -- sandra: that's fine for them to let everybody know. there is a lot of speculation what offends people to without hearing them. harris: amen. sandra: what offends them. we need to listen before we make changes. when i saw this report i had to look at the source, i was like, this can not be real. if it tells us anything, if this is actually happening, our public universities are confused as to how to deal with this. there is a lot of straightening out that needs to be done. harris: are we spitting out kids who are confused. south africa's kaster who ran, a lot of conversation about the gender of that runner. she ran with women. this is topic in nomenclature. this is subject,.

melissa: transgender swimmer at harvard, great story on 60 minutes about him. coach was surprised students had no problem with it. it was not a big deal. maybe we're make issue where kids understand something. harris: i have to take off my wedding ring. julie: oh, no. do you have announcement? harris: here is my announcement. if you want to get a job, lose the bling. you taking off urining? no. melissa: she already did it. harris: that is controversial advice from executive recruiter, women who wear engagement rings to job interview put their job interview in jeopardy. sandra: don't worry, tony, she is putting it back on. your insurance company won't replace

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♪ sandra: a job interview is supposed to be an opportunity to shine. now an executive recruiter telling women to leave that engagement ring at home if you want to boost your chances at landing the down. bruce horowitz in an essay on linkedin, based on his experience engagement things

assume that the men are high maintenance and can spark jealously among other women in the office, that they will fall to second place. he reminds women, being engaged is not protected class like gender, religion or marital status. since the post went viral many women are calling the advice sexist. who am i going to first on this. harris took her wedding ring off! harris: just to sell the story. with all those other women in the office purportedly, what do we have to worry about a bunch of bridesmaids for? let them get their own, really. sandra: seriously, how about getting hired on your experience and merit, tony? >> look, you could get advice from somebody. doesn't mean you have to take advice from somebody. harris: oh, i like that. >> okay. i think it is fair that this recruiter in their experience is putting this information out there, warning you that for a whole number of reasons by the way, having an engagement ring could sending a certain message could hurt you in possible employment. what do you do about it?

melissa: totally disagree. i think it is actually the opposite. people around our own office, when people engaged and married more settled. i find they stay longer. young people who come in, aren't engaged or settled work for a year or two. >> i agree with that. sandra: harris: you would hide that beautiful one on your finger? melissa: no. are you kidding? julie: brass tacks, depends on size of the ring f it's a lame ring you are not high maintenance. melissa: wow, julie. keeping my hand out. >> married is a virtue, bottom line giving information based from his experience as recruiter, i think there is legitimate reason to say it. you don't have to agree -- sandra: what happens when you get the job? you land the jock. show up at work and you have got the bling on? >> it was a big week for the person.

harris: maybe there are certain jobs. for instance, going in and there is certain type of job, dealing with certain types of customers. maybe they want somebody a little less flashy. maybe there are certain jobs is what hement. playing devil's advocate. julie: don't find this funny for real. if you have some massive bling rock, one thing but normally epgaugement ring, what is that high maintenance? you're high maintenance, you have to get a guy to marry you? sandra: you all are high maintenance. harris: look at that ring on sandra's finger! sandra: we're back on tv tomorrow at noon eastern. happy labor day. thank you to tony. harris: bye. you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, and you're talking to your doctor about your medication... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain helping me go further. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation

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