and what was really compelling and apply it to monday's debate. again, thanks for watching us tonight. i'm bill o'reilly reporting from l.a. please remember the spin stops here because we're definitely looking out for you. ♪ ♪ breaking tonight, an excompletion of violence on the streets of charlotte, north carolina, where moments ago our producers described what they called a melee in the middle of what had been a fairly calm protest march. welcome to "the kelly file," everyone. i'm megyn kelly. watch as we do what our cameras caught moments ago. [shouting] [shouting]

[explosion] [explosion] >> that don't stop me. >> during what is the second night of protest over the police shooting of a black suspect, the cameras heard what was a loud bang. they rounded a corner and caught on video, this is it here, we have blurred the bodies, caught on video what appears to be a lifeless body laying on the ground. people running in, police moving in, a second body nearby. tear gas was fired. and our crews had to retreat. since then many questions, not a lot of answers. but the scene has been chaotic and obviously dangerous. what we have seen without the blurring in front of it. get to steve harrigan in one minute is one body that appears to have a gunshot to the head. the person was bleeding and not responsive.

and another person who appears to have been shot. the condition of that person not known. let's get right to steve harrigan on the ground in charlotte. steve? >> megyn, we are right here in downtown, charlotte. you can see the crowd forming outside the ritz carlton hotel. it's a tense situation. it's not going to stand for long. we have seen the police rush this crowd two previous lobletions. fired tear gas and concussion grenades. every few minutes the crowd will start to run. the tear gas has many people running in different directions. poorly organized march. calm from 5:00 on. and then about an hour ago it started to turn. i have tell you what we have seen with our own eyes and with the video footage from chris who with is right in the middle of things that is one young black american male down with what seemed to be a gunshot to the head. he was bleeding profusely from the back of his head, covered up with a sheet from the city reports city officials are saying he has life threatening injuries.

what's not clear is who fired that shot. but at least one person shot. one person wounded. in a situation already extremely tense and certainly more news of another shooting is going to cause this to spiral even further. to repeat we don't know who fired the shot right there in the middle of the tear gas. one man shot here. lobbing bottles now and lobbing rocks at police. miss are set up a border line outside the omni hotel this crowd is coming back for more. you can see a lot of the protesters have masks or bandannas around their face. they are prepared for tear gas and, yet, despite the fact that it's well-known in the crowd, that two people have been shot or at least one man has been seriously shot, the crowd is coming back for more. as they start to throw things at the ritz carlton, hotel. earlier we saw someone start to smash that mercedes suv there in the parking lot. we're going to try not to get too close here because

you never know when the crowd is going to start to rush. i'm going to ask chris to start to back up here. only a matter of time before we get a rush. take shelter behind the wall as we wait for what is likely to happen next. that's going to be a round of tear gas by police as they try and stop people, as they try to stop people from smashing things in front of this ritz carlton, hotel. now we are seeing fireworks and there is a run. let's get behind the wall. we're backing up now. a lot of confusion when these things happen the crowd starts to run. so much disinformation, misinformation throughout this controversy here. throughout these events there have been really two different versions of what's happened on the ground. on the other hand, there has been the official police version of how this all started and that is of a man with a gun hot by police and

unofficial version taking place on social media a lot of different charges. now we can see how that happens here in realtime. people from the crowd running saying they shot someone else. they shot someone else. rumors spread and, yet, that has not diminished this crowd. after one man shot, one man wounded, this crowd only getting larger as you can see they begin to hurl things in the direction of the police. megyn, back to you. >> steve harrigan, kudos to you and our photog for being so brave and being in the middle of it all. a question for you about the victims, the number of shot, because what we saw on our cameras was two different individuals. one who we are told looked like he had a gunshot wound to the head. the other also down and appeared to have been wounded by a gunshot. perhaps you haven't seen the second person or don't know about him. but have you -- were you aware of that prior to me telling you about it? >> yes. it's all happening in a very small square area here. a crowd of about 800. many of them wearing masks.

one man, young african-american did seem to be seriously wounded with a lot of blood coming out from his head. he was covered up with a sheet and taken away with what officials say are serious injuries. it's not clear who fired that shot. a second man injured. it appears to be less serious. keep in mind there is a lot of things flying around here. rocks, bottles, concussion grenades, tear gas, also a crowd running. so it's not clear what could have caused the injuries to the second man. those injuries, from what key could see seemed less serious than the first. but if a man is shot, a young african-american man shot in this crowd here the story is really going to he is can a a little, megyn. >> as they run through the streets saying they shot another one, that it happened to somebody else, we don't know who did the shooting. we have no idea whether this is an officer to protect the crowd and maintain order or whether this was somebody inside the crowd.

some rabble rouser. somebody who thought they were facing a threat. we don't have any idea. >> exactly. and there is a lot of desperate elements in this crowd. everything from earlier families with young children out to see what was happening peace protesters saying black lives matter. and then we are seeing other protesters dressed very differently with masks, prepared for battle, swearing, smashing and throwing. so this crowd really has run the gam muted and the more violent, more radical elements are the ones on the street right now. >> is there any significance to the location where this is happening? we know that keith lamont scott was charlotte in charlotte. shot and killed by a police officer in charlotte. but, in terms of where they are by the ritz carlton, what's happening in this particular location that brought the protesters there? protesters were organizing earlier at 7:00 p.m. in a park and they marched around. my guess is this extremely

affluent parts of the city. ritz carlton and someone smashing up a suv. perhaps class playing a role. >> what's the ratio to police to protesters if you can spit ball that for us? >> i would say about 800 protesters. mainly young. i guess 90% african-american. a lot in masks, a lot shirtless. a lot holding up their phones or recording things themselves. and every 15, 20 minutes, they have had to run down the streets in really pandemonium due to that tear gas being fired. as far as the police go, we have seen them setting up metal barricades around buildings, trying to protect glass from being smashed. around restaurants and around hotels. but it seems to have been a late start. that might not be the police's fault. we have seen a lot of -- a lot of chaotic organization on the part of the protesters. different groups with different goals, moving in different directions. certainly a challenge for law enforcement here. >> we want to mention to the audience that we had

previously scheduled an interview tonight with the charlotte police chief, kerr put any. putney. he is here. we are getting him miked up right now. i want to ask you, steve, just to describe the scene for us as someone who is there. what is the smell in the air? you can smell gunpowder? is it fireworks? what is the volume? what kinds of noises are you hearing live there on the scene. you can feel tear gas in your throat. you start to cough when they fire another round. i guess the mood swings pretty dramatically. you see people taking selfies and people celebrating and then people running in panic. so it's a real weird situation where at least one man has been shot and the crowd continues to gather. >> they shot him. he was shot just like everybody else. plaque people get shot every day, right? it's okay for that, right? it's okay for our brothers and our fathers not to come

home, right? >> may i ask you one question while you are here. if a man was shot about 50 yards offer there. we don't know by who. why are you here? >> because i serve a purpose, sir. i serve is a purpose. my father served a purpose. my procedure serves a purpose. i'm here because, guess what? whether i'm here, i'm in school, i'm in my car, you said, okay, a man got shot over here, right? so you basically said why why put myself in danger. >> exactly. >> guess what? i could be at work, at school, in my car, i could still get shot! by the police! i could get shot anywhere. do you see this? >> i do. >> do you see that? >> yes. >> do you see me. >> yes. >> we are not just seeing humans. but i am black and you are white. so don't tell me not to come over here. >> i'm not telling you. and i appreciate you giving -- no, ma'am. i think you are -- >> let me tell you why. to thank you for

speaking to us. >> have happened. you know what has happened. black men has been killed. black women have been killed, sir. >> all lives matter,. >> may i ask you another question? >> yes, sir. >> all lives matter. >> when people were running out, i heard a lot of people saying they shot someone else. >> they did. >> does anyone know or did anyone see who did the shooting or are you concerned that we're not sure exactly what happened? >> you want it on video so you can put it on the news, right? >> that's what you are trying to find out. have we got a video so you can elaborate off it. make a buck and fabricate a story. you want a video so you can fabricate a story, right? right? >> we're going to back up a little bit here, megan. we will toss it back to you. you can see a lot of hostility and a lot of skepticism towards the media i was in front of the omni hotel. >> absolutely. we can see that feed. thank you for the interview. we're trying to get the stories of the people who were there on the scene to

tell. the country why they are there, so upset and willing to risk their lives to make their point. there is no better way to make them than standing in front of the tv camera. we apologize for the profanity, obviously this is a live protest we are covering it and seeing for the first time as you are. we want to bring in a exclusive interview tonight chief putney. thank you for being here tonight as unbelievable scene unfolds in downtown charlotte this evening. want to bring our viewers up to date because we haven't yet told them the full story of keith lamont scott. they may not know why you are involved and folks are upset. this is a man who was shot to death by an officer after your officer observed scott inside a scott. scott exited the car you say with a handgun. he got back in the car. the officers approached the vehicle. they told him to get out of the vehicle, to drop the

weapon, despite those commands, this is your version of it, scott exited the vehicle, armed with a handgun and that is when he was shot to death. now, the officer who shot and killed him. >> that's correct. >> officer vincent is black. keith lamont scott was black. and the community in charlotte, tonight, believes that this is another example of black lives not mattering. and they also challenge your story that keith lamont scott had on him. he was with a book waiting to pick up his son and he was shot down like an animal sitting in the car. i want to start with you, chief, and ask you why you don't believe that's true. >> well, there is your truth, my truth, and the truth. i have to deal in the truth. i have to deal in facts. the version that you hear from me is based on evidence. it's based on testimony that we get from witnesses and

the officers there. and it's corroborated with the evidence that we gather there on the scene. >> chief, can i ask you, can you see the monitor? you can see fox news right now on a monitor near you? >> yes. no, i can see the camera only. >> okay. because what we are seeing now in charlotte an overhead shot what appears to be canisters of tear gas and people running in and out. have the officers been ordered to use tear gas and disperse the crowd, do you know? >> absolutely. that's why i have such limited time. i have got to get back to work here. but absolutely. we're trying to disperse the crowd. we have been very patient. but now they have become very aggressive throwing bottles and so forth at my officers. so it's time for us now to restore order. >> is there any doubt in your mind that there was a gun in the hand of keith lamont scott and that a gun was recovered near him at the scene? >> absolutely no doubt whatsoever, no. >> you know his family, others say the cops planted it.

>> okay. >> how do you disprove that will the body cameras of the police disprove that. >> all i can tell you all the evidence we have support the version that we heard from witnesses, from our officers, and from the evidence that we found on the scene not my job to dispute anybody's version. we are just going to present the facts and let the justice system run its course and we will see how that turns out. right now we are standing on the facts. i'm not fabricating anything. i have nothing to gain for doing something like that. we're just going to stand by the facts that we know. >> and we have seen pictures of keith lamont scott's body. we have seen what appears to be a gun right next to his foot. what appears to be an ankle holster on his body which may have been holding such gun. you may want to hear this too. something is happening lyon the scene in charlotte and our reporter is in the

middle of it. >> we need to go. >> steve? steve harrigan? >> megyn, we have just seen another round of tear gas. i'm closing my-s now and i can feel the back of my throat. when that happens 1,000 people took off. now about 10 feet away from me. looting is going on. a souvenir store. the front door and glass has been smashed. people are going in and carrying things out. just to sum up what we have seen now, we have seen a line of police form and block off the area where we saw at least one man shot. >> all right. we're going to leave -- and now looting going on. >> leave our camera on steve. the chief is still with us. we are seeing looting and we have seen one man shot in the head and reports of another man injured. you can confirm that a man was shot in the head tonight? >> we can confirm that we have one shot and has been transported and last information we got that person deceased at this point. again, sorry i can't really finish this interview with you. i have got to get back to work. we have got to get some order restored here in our

city. >> absolutely. best of luck to you. and your men and women in blue tonight, chief. thank you for sparing the time. >> they are doing heroic work and i'm honored to be a part of it. thank you so much. >> honored to have you here. all the best to you, sir. >> get back to steve harrigan watching all the events unfold. the reporters are in danger. the protesters are in danger. the scene is not safe. steve harrigan? >> megyn, the police have pushed forward now about 500 yards. a line of them at least 100 in riot gear and tear gas has cleared the area where at least one young man was shot. we don't know by whom. and one man injured. this is something we have seen repeat throughout the night where there is tear gas, the crowd clears and the crowd comes back for more. earlier this started out as peaceful protest. a lot of families a lot of young children with signs coming out and walking and marching. now it's turned violent. the swearing and looting about 10 feet from me. a souvenir store was just

looted. i have seen some cars smashed. the ritz carlton smashed out in front. police trying to establish order with tear gas but the order that they have established seems to only last about 20 minutes before this crowd regathers. and if it is true that a young man has been seriously shot, and when we find out by whom, this situation could escalate in the days to come. >> we understand that they are using tear gas as a matter of course. that's what they do to get control of the crowd. it seems to be having no effect, steve. you tell me. it seems like they run and they come right back and they may be growing in number because what we heard about an hour ago is that the protesters were about 100 in number and grew to 300 in number. your number estimated to 800. what happens now does the crowd grow or staying the same? >> right now the crowd has dispersed due to the line of police and due to a heavy barrage of tear gas. there are also some stun grenades and flash bang

grenades. throwing everything but lethal authors at protesters for now they have scattered. despite the knowledge of one man down, one man being shot and we don't know by whom this crowd has regathered time and time again. we have spoke to people in the crowd. i apologize for some the swearing there. you can see the intense anger by the people there intense anger that their story is not being told. they are not safe on the street day or night here. from the younger crowd here. 90% i would say african-american are real hostility toward the police, towards people with the camera as well as they continue to regather and confront the police in downtown, charlotte. >> i want to show the viewers a moment over the police scanner when the gunshot took place. watch and listen. >> you may have had a shot fired shot and trade. crowd running in different directions. sound like a shot being fired. >> look like you have got somebody down. may have been shot.

several hundred people mobbing them right now. the medic is not going to be able to get in there have them staged but they can't get in there right now. it's out of control. >> medic staged but can't get in there because it's out of control. >> that's what we have heard. local reporting now that one person was taken to the hospital with life threatening injuries taken to the hospital and therefore they were able to get in there and real estate treef at least one person who had been shot as the police confirm to us. we are watching not only crowds and destruction of property, but looting as well, which we have seen elsewhere, ferguson, missouri, baltimore, maryland, in the wake of officer-involved shootings involving black men. this particular case involves a black police officer as well and not the result of lack of diversity in the charlotte, mecklenburg police department. you can hear the anger of that african-american woman who spoke to steve harrigan saying you are white. i am black. and i have a different experience than you do. and that is what we have heard from many african-americans in the

country who are who feel under threatening plawmplet officers who in 99% of the cases, 99.9% of the cases literally that is the statistic, will not hurt them, will not shoot them and effect a lawful arrest. in the cases when someone does get shot is the shooting deemed outside of policy. just some perspective on the raw numbers as given to the united states public by the fbi. joining us now is mark fuhrman a fox news contributor and former lapd homicide detective. also eric guster an attorney and political commentator. thank you both for being here as the news unfolds in charlotte. your reaction, mark, to what you are seeing here tonight? >> well, i think it's unfortunate that you have this situation that is clearly a shooting where this officer had little choice but to use deadly force. and then the facts are

somehow changed at will to fit into a narrative and now we have a riot and now one person, another person has lost their life and quite possibly another one wounded and i suspect those people were shot by rioters that were behind them and not the police. >> let's take a listen to what this woman with the gas mask on is saying. >> if you care about us, you need to be out here with us supporting us. because we care. >> can't. >> you need to be here. >> you need to be here. at the end of the day we all care about each other. it's not about no problem. we just want to live. can we live? can we live though? >> ma'am, can i talk to you? i know that a lot of people that came out tonight had nothing but -- here we go. we have people running. >> police officers are on the move right now. kind of back off the sidewalk.

police in riot gear made their way toward protesters. all of a sudden the protesters started to run. they started running toward the epicenter down trade street. officers in riot gear stopped. >> we want to tell our viewers that tonight the family of keith scott. >> 400 ran down the hill. >> to be peaceful. to be peaceful. you can see that's not necessarily being heeded tonight. sorry, steve harrigan, go ahead. >> we have just seen what we have seen over and over again. police pushing forward tear gas. crowds running down the street away from them. police have seaboard a line where at least one young man was shot. we don't know by whom. they are holding that line. every now and then they lob tear gas in the crowd. young men have their -- noses and mouths to try to shield them.

you hear a few smashes, a few bangs. canisters are fired and the young men and women run down the hill right in front of the ritz carltd ton and omni hotel as police and demonstrators about 800 strong battle it out. despite the fact that there has been one serious casualty, another young man injured. these protesters continue to stay out here through a cloud of tear gas. we have seen minor incidents of looting, at least one store. one vehicle smashed up. a battle between the protesters and the line of police. megyn, back to you. >> the protesters who continue to taunt the police who have been told to hold the line. and throw things at them and yell at them. and you can see throw the tear gas canisters back at the police. who are appropriately outfitted to handle this kind of a situation. but the protesters are not. >> that bang grenade. we are also seeing -- that was a flash bang grenade that loud explosion.

that was a flash bang grenade. we are also seeing payment balls fired into the crowd as well. seeing a whole array of force being used here, that unlethal force. beanbags, paint balls, tear gas, flash bang grenades and paint balls. it chases the protesters away as this cloud of tear gas moves over us right now. in 15 to 20 minutes they come back. >> want to tell the audience that we're just hearing that apparently the local hospitals have taken in 8 patients. that's what we're being told. seven law enforcement officers and one civilian to area hospitals. seven cops. one civilian. we presume the civilian is the person we have been talking about who was shot in the head by whom we have nod idea. we have no idea. what we do know is that this started over the shooting death of keith lamont scott. man 43 years old. african-american, in his car as the police went to execute a warrant for an

arrest of someone other than keith scott at an apartment building. they observed scott inside of his car. he got out, armed with a handgun, so say police. scott's family maintains it was just a book. he got back into the car. the cops approached his car. the officers say they gave loud, clear, verbal commands that were heard by many other independent witnesses that he get out of the vehicle and drop his weapon. the cops claim that scott exited the vehicle, armed with a handgun and appeared to pose a threat. and that, we are told, is when officer vincent who himself was african-american shot and killed keith lamont scott. again, a man who was in his car but had a gun and apparently got out of it according to the cops, at least, and then refused to drop it the police trying to maintain control in the streets of charlotte, tonight. this is what they often do when they try to clear the street so they can make either push protesters back from a particular area or protect a certain business or particular area.

and that's our guess as to what is happening now. i want to go back to our panel eric guster, you understand the frustration. hearing from the witnesses there on the scene, we understand the frustration. but you understand the police, the police are telling us this man was armed, refused to disarm, and now has provided, at least to this reporter, pictures of the handgun next to keith scott's foot and what appears to be a holster around hits ankle. that is not -- i cannot independently confirm that, i can only show you what was confirmed to me in a police-provided photograph. actually several of them. >> this round of protest is not just about keith scott. this is about terrence crutcher as well. the man who was shot with his hands up because on your show you talked about the ferguson effect and how michael brown may not have had his hands up but terrence being posed if any

by the deis he see dent in that case. that's also disputed by the police. they claim that the man was reach into the car window after being told to surrender and they believed to get a gun that that is disputed by his defender saying that the window was up. >> the one fact about that that we do know is that there was no gun present. police have had to acknowledge that so african-americans looking at this video, watching a man who get shot who is unarmed that police even had to admit that he was totally unarmed, those are the type of things that we see time and time again that are impacting our african-american men and children. so, these people in charlotte, they're upset. and they have every right to be upset. i don't agree with damaging

property and those type of things. however, these police officers looking at this video, they seem to be agitating the crowd more so. >> how so? >> because people have the right to and just because you're in front of a police officer, just because you are yelling at a police officer does not mean that they have the right to shoot you with beanbags, to shoot you with rubber bullets or to try to arrest you. >> i can't confirm that we have seen that the shooting with the beanbags and rubber bullets. we can all confirm tear gas which we have seen quite a bit of. >> our reporter just mentioned the beanbags. >> go ahead, mark. >> well, megyn, this is not a protest. this is an unlawful assembly. this is a riot. this is completely out of control. they are looting. it is a riot. people are dying. people are being injured. property is being damaged. there is looting. this is called a riot, mr. guster. this is a riot. not a demonstration. it's unlawful. >> ceet keith scott died.

walter scott in south carolina tide. >> it doesn't matter. it's a riot. we are not talking about that. we are talking about this. this is a riot. >> part of the problem is people like me. >> people like me. >> have negative perception about african-americans when they have the right to protest. i bet you were one of the ones who did not want colin kaepernick to protest about injustices against african-americans, am i right, fuhrman? >> all right. let's not make this personal about the guest on camera right now. we are trying to focus on what we are seeing. >> touche. >> listen, this started off as a peaceful protest, no question. then it grew very dangerous. and clearly at some points appeared to be a riot because people were getting shot in the head in the street. it appears to be a little calmer now. but we are watching looting take place before our very eyes. i mean, eric, you understand that some people at home, especially in the light of keith scott's family's plea for peaceful protest and for folks upset about this man's

death to obey the law while they honor his memory and call for reform or call for a full investigation, which is underway, the dismay and the -- you know, the extent to which the argument is undermined as they see the so-called protesters stealing. >> and looting is wrong. people should not loot. i agree with you on that. have you people who are voiceless. have you people who don't have a chance. have you people who beg for help, beg for educational opportunities and beg for police to not shoot them especially when they are unarmed. those people feel like they don't have a voice. when those people take to the streets en masse like this then things can get out of control. especially whether you have some police departments who aren't properly trained to handle large crowds like this. >> mark, in the vast majority of officer-involved shootings it was a shooting within policy. but, over the past year or two, we have seen more and more cases that involve

officer shostled shootings of black men in particular. you can feel the anger boiling over. >> well, you can, megyn, i can understand those ice hated incidents where there is some kind of act by the officer that is clearly outside of the law and outside of policy. i can understand that anger. in this case, you have a police chief that couldn't be more professional, who couldn't be more articulate, who laid down the basic facts that said there is a weapon and independent witnesses that observed this shooting, corroborated that, that means nonpolice officer, the suspect's family was not at the scene. they have no idea what he was doing. they were not there. yet, they project this narrative that has caused what we are seeing on the street. >> do we have the sound bite of keith scott's sister

today who challenged the narrative that he had a gun and claimed, instead, he had a book and was very upset coming to the cameras to make that point. do we have it. >> all right, two seconds we will have it for you. >> we will focus on protesting and getting up to speed. we will have it in a moment. mark, let me ask you what these cops should be doing right now. >> well, they're doing exactly what they should be doing. they have to maintain control. they have to not give up ground and they have to advance and split the crowd and try to disperse them and get them to a place that they can maybe affect arrests agitators. when you have all of them that are agitators, they have a problem. they can't split up their line until they have an opportunity where the amounts of rioters are reduced so they can control those small groups. and that's the problem right now. >> and i want to just go back to the original point about the family. you were saying the family wasn't there. they didn't see it but this is what keith lamont scott's

sister came out and said today. >> they jumped out their truck they say hands up. he got a gun. he got a gun. pow pow pow pow. that's it. he had no gun. >> the son was at school. he was waiting on his son to get off the bus. >> mind you, this man is disabled. >> they are saying that he was disabled. they also complained that the police officer who shot him was under cover and didn't have any identifying symbols. but the chief punney say officer vincent that was wearing a vest identifying him as a police officer. weighs accompanied by uniformed police officers and they had told keith lamont scott to drop the gun repeatedly and clearly. go ahead, mark. >> well, when you see this shooting the way the chief has been able to briefly describe it, the officer, the shooter in this case actually used quite a bit of restraint. he sees the suspect with a

gun, he gets in to the vehicle. they don't shoot at him in the vehicle. they command him to put his hands up and get out of the vehicle. and he gets out of the vehicle with a gun and still refuses to comply with the orders. and as we see, time and time again, megyn, all somebody has to do is comply with the officer's commands. their legal commands and many of these shootings would not occur. >> i want to get live to steve harrigan on the scene for an update on what we are seeing. steve? >> >> megyn, i would like to also -- maybe your panel can help out with the strategy. what we're seeing from police here. it looks like a line of about 100 uniformed police in armed riot gear in helmets. they fired tear gas into the crowd and then they pushed forward. over the last half hour we have seen them move very slowly about 50 yards forward. it seems they are slowly trying to take control of the situation here on the swear by first firing tear gas and then pushing forward.

they move slowly but they have made steady progress as far as the crowd here goes, it's counsel from about 800 to probably about 200 now. several rounds ever tear gas have business%ed the crowd significantly over the past half hour, megyn. >> steve, thank you. i want to bring you this update. now it is being confirmed that the person has died. the person who was shot has died now of gunshot wound in charlotte, north carolina tonight. killed during these protests by whom we do not know. we have not had an identification of the person response sin. we have not had an identification of the person who died or exactly what the circumstances of it were. all we know is what we have seen. and now we know that that person has succumb to his injuries as we continue to watch tear gas and the police presence growing in charlotte tonight. this evening, there is plenty of politics going on and that's why we booked newt gingrich who is a republican and former speaker of the house. he has been campaigning for donald trump. and this has become a

political issue as well as one of cultural significance and law enforcement significance. mr. speaker, thank you for being with us tonight. your thoughts on what we're seeing in north carolina? >> >> i think this is an american tragedy. a 3 years after drink' after man luther king's speech i have a dream. two consecutive african-american attorney generals. race relations are decaying in this country. part of the reason for that young woman's anger is way beyond violence. it's schools that don't work, neighborhoods with no jobs, random violence, a sense of being powerless even though there is an african-american president. there is a report today that over 3,000 people have been shot in chicago this year. they don't get this kind of coverage. over 3,000 people have been

shot. over 500 have been killed in chicago. and, yet, there is no national reaction. obama doesn't notice it clinton doesn't notice it. and i think there are two different things here. and i don't know what will happen in the next 50 or so days. one is the country at large will not tolerate this kind of random violence. people will not tolerate looting. they won't tolerate closing i-85. they won't tolerate burning things. on the other hand, most americans, i think, desperately would love to fix the challenge of the inner city and they know it's not working. that young lady who was so angry a while ago. her anger wasn't just about the problem of police violence. she has a life that has no future. she has a life where she is going to have a hard time getting a job. hard time living in a safe neighborhood. hard time being able to go out and get the kind of education she ought to be getting. i think this is a place for america to have a serious dialogue and not just the usual back and forth politics. but whether we can get to that, i don't know. >> we want to update the

audience that now the charlotte police department is informing us that the person who was shot was shot by another civilian. that this civilian on civilian violence. we can't say for sure. and now this man has been injured. would can't say for sure under what circumstances took place. in the middle of melee of protesters. mr. speaker, stand by one moment. steve harrigan, what are you seeing? >> they are shooting rubber bullets. we're seeing a real mass of tear gas as well as reports of firing rubber bullets into the crowd. this has been the most serious push by the police in the past 45 minutes. it has been very effective. some of the hard core people right up there in the front who have been firing fireworks. police throwing bottles at them have run back due to the latest assault which is heavy tear gas as well as perhaps rubber bullets being fired into the crowd to try to take control of this main street in downtown,

charlotte by the police, megyn? >> steve, how does this compare to what have you covered on the scene in ferguson, missouri? >> this is a lot more out of control than in ferguson. this is a pitched battle between police and protesters. it's gone back and forth for a long period of time. it makes me think that the police here are less prepared and less competent than what we have seen in ferguson. i'm seeing scenes here the last time i have seen them were on the west bank the back and forth between israelis and palestinians with tear gas. that's what we are seeing in charlotte, north carolina. >> steve, we also had unconfirmed reports as of yet unconfirmed of possibly more gunshots have you have heard any more gun shots? it's really hard to confirm any of that. there are explosions of all varieties. tear gas canisters being fired. very loud concussion

grenades and flash bang grenades which make a huge flash and loud explosion designed to chase the crowd back which certainly it has been effective. there have been paint ball shots fired as well as rubber bullets. there is a lot of ways here to get injured. every half hour or so the crowd will break into a run and get away from these things so you can get trampled as well. it's an angry crowd. it's hostile crowd and they are not going away despite the fact that one man in has been killed and one man seriously injured. this crowd of a hard core of a couple hundred is still out here. and the police really stymied in trying to get them off the streets. >> again, just to update the audience, we now have confirmed that one man has been shot dead during the protest in charlotte, north carolina, over the shooting death of an african-american man by an african-american officer in charlotte, north carolina. the politics say that man who was shot dead by the cop had a gun. the man's family denies that. the police has shown your reporters picturing of a gun near the decedent's body and

what appears to be an ankle holster strapped to the bottom of his leg. that is the representation to fox news. i have seen the pictures myself for whatever it is worth. they cannot release these publicly, they tell us. i question whether that's the right move given what we are seeing on the streets of that's right, tonight. i want to bring in mr. speaker because we still have newt gingrich a moment. forgive me for having a political question but we are 48 days out from a presidential election in this country. and it has become a very heated political issue. hillary clinton coming out and saying this is abominable and that it needs to stop before we have all the facts. and, yet, north carolina is a critical state in this election. just quickly on the politics of what's likely to happen. >> well, lock, here is the great challenge for secretary clinton. when she was at yale as a law student she was a coeditor of antipolice, left wing alternative newspaper that described police as pigs. her natural instincts is to

take the side of the people who are against the police. her first comments about this were antipolice. this is not a country which wants to see what we're seeing here tonight. now, no matter what the excuse, this is not a country that wants to see looting. not a country that wants to see random violence. again, you mentioned citizen upon citizen. watch and see how many people die in chicago this week that no one noticing because they don't fit the current left wing political man trap. the fact is the current system isn't working. it is not working in education. it's not working in jobs. it's not working in safety. that's why donald trump, i think, may do surprisingly well in the inner city because he is at least offering a chance to dramatically change things. >> newt gingrich, thank you. i want to tell the audience that hillary clinton earlier today said there is so much we don't know about what happened here in north carolina and in tulsa, oklahoma, we do know that we have two more names to add to a list of african-americans killed by

police officers in these encounters. it's unbearable and it needs to become intolerable. and then she went on to say the targeting of police officers also needs to stop. then she tweeted out keith lamont scott, crutcher and others this has got to end. however, we do not know what actually happened in these cases. an investigation is underway. the police chief, you just saw, kerr putney was on our air saying this man was armed and not obeying police command. the department of justice is already getting involved in the tulsa, oklahoma case. they may get involved in this one, too. you can get they will. they have taken hold of 26-plus investigations in this country. and some -- i mean, the net effect of that is to basically be overseeing the police department in those cities. so an investigation is underway. and there is question about whether any presidential candidate should be very careful not to get out ahead of the story before we

know -- we know exactly why a death occurred. we saw a man as mr. gingrich was speaking hold up a canister. that was a tear gas canister. and we understand the police may be moving in a little bit more tightly on the protesters, again, who are looting, who are throwing the tear gas back at the police and now steve harrigan confirming that he, too, has heard reports of unrubber bullets. we saw protesters walking and running. here is a woman just marching along having a snack. but we saw protesters running before and what appeared to be having gotten injured. could have been rubber bullets or something along those lines. some maintaining a party atmosphere down there, looking like it's a great time. others, i mean, at least one other man was shot dead within the past 45 minutes. what does that tell you about the state of america today? kevin jackson is here with me. is he a conservative radio host and fox news contributor. richard fowler is here too, senior fellow at the new

leader's council. thanks for being here. richard, the whole thing is so frustrating and disheartening. it feels to who we are as a country and yet here we are again. >> thanks for having me. i want to tell you i want to be real with you tonight. some people in your audience might not want to hear this. the african-american community are tired of waiting, right? we have to wait for the justice system to take its course. we have to wait for the investigation to happen. but all this time another black male life is lost. i am a young plaque male. same age as some of these same guys that have been killed. i worry for my own life walking home at night or riding my bike at night to and from my office. this is a serious problem that we have really got to tackle. at the beginning of the show you talked about how all the shootings are from police policies. maybe it's time. just maybe, that we take a look at these police policies and really understand what is working and what is not working because, clearly, in charlotte, we see it's not working. in baltimore it's not working.

in ferguson, it's not working. in miami it's not working. every city in this country we are seeing outcry from the black community. we're tired of waiting. what's unacceptable to the black community is that another black brother has been slayed by the hands of law enforcement. something has got to be done here. >> and i know, kevin is huffing and puffing and he can continue to huff and puff he is a black man in america is he just as as i am and alter and individuals past two days. >> just to ferguson, missouri misrepresented cases of them all. >> i'm talking about the police department policies, megyn not what happened to michael brown. >> let's be clear because that's where the hands up lie began. >> they talk about systemic racism in the police department. absolutely they do. also they also found michael brown the black decedent in that case was charging at the officer and he was defending his own life. >> i understand when you

refer to ferguson it's important the audience does understand. >> it does matter. >> let me get to kevin. go ahead kevin jackson. >> first of all i wish you had a cop here in the studio so he could blow my brains out while i was listen to richard. what a bunch of nonsense. we actually have a city that's got -- that's 40% higher in crime rate than the national average. richard probably can't tell you the number of people who were killed in that city over the last year, which, by the way was 62. he doesn't tell you that 35% of the city is black. but they represent 67% of the homicides. and he wants to blame cops. i would ask a very simple question. where were the cops when the all the other crimes were going on. is that the only time that the charlotte cops have had a problem in that city? or have they had a problem for decades? it's only when somebody gets shot that the race pimps come out and start making an issue out of something. you have got people down there partying because the left narrative is yet,

again, being brought forward and they know it's a lie. you look at all the statistics that support -- you look at all the statistics of cops killing police. you look at all the statistics of police officers killing blacks and richard knows he is being disingenuous. >> richard, the problem is that the facts in this case, in particular, seem, you know, unless you completely discount what the police officers are telling us, and they have seen the body camera video and they have seen the pictures, they're not releasing them yet, but they will veentd actually, and if it's all lies it's going to come out is that this shooting might not be the one to make the point, right? that this man may have pulled a gun on these cops. but the question is can have you rioting in the streets? can you have people getting shot in you can have things threaten at the police officers every time there is an officer-involved shooting

where the person who is shot is african-american even if shooting by the accounts of the independent eyewitnesses, even, was brought on by the man who was shot. >> there is a couple of things. i'm no impact there. first, i'm no poverty pimp, i don't know where that line came from from kevin. he got his talking points from the alt-right and blame the left. you can't blame what happened in tulsa, oklahoma where the video was there. even donald trump himself. you can't look at these things in a vacuum. once again the right and people like kevin, one case at a time -- >> you know nothing more than anybody else. >> are are you going to let me finish? >> let him finish. >> this is a pattern here, we overly see this. we saw this in the walter scott case just down the street from charlotte where he was shot in the back bay police officer. once again, 400 years of

compounded bigotry and racism. and policy answers police departments across this country. and if you -- you have to be blind not to see it, or you have to be a self-hating black person. either or. >> that's exactly right, richard. self hating black person. the fact of the matter is you can't name the last black person shot by another black person in any city, but you can certainly -- >> why are we talking about black on black crime? >> you guys are arguing. stand by, the people are running dwen on the streets of charlotte. we want to listen in. >> more tear gas. it's been a counter attack, despite the fact that police have said they will arrest anyone who remains out on the street. that's not been able to disperse this crowd. still out here, about 300 strong and the police have not been

able to -- they just fired more tear gas resulting in another panicked run. just less than a minute later they are beginning to badger again. the protesters. right in the face of the riot police. >> are they even attempting to effect arrests? >> it is a crowd of about 300. mainly young. we see this crowd evolve, as we see them hurl things. we have seen fire crackers thrown at them. fire crackers thrown at them. bottles thrown at them. they have stood their ground. one person shot and killed, the young african man, shot in the back of his head. the city of charlotte reported that was a civilian-on-civilian shooting. that means little to protesters out here. many while running from the shot proclaim they saw police shoot

that young man. another man shot by police. you have two vergs of reality here. official version and the version of the protesters. >> just want to tell our viewers that we are getting more updates on the looting that is going on here in charlotte tonight. that the cvs has been looted. two other stores have been looted. r ritz carlton reported to reporters they have locked doors. they are using furniture to barricade windows there. once again, eight people are in the hospital. seven of those are charlotte police department police officers who have had to be taken to area hospitals. the eighth, we believe, is the shot and killedville civilian, killed by another civilian, in the crowd watching by the protest. >> do we still have mark fuhrman? a question for you. because richard fowler make the

point that if these are within policy shootings then the policy needs to change. in particular, in this case, if you accept the police story, as they told it, the man had a gun. he didn't listen to the police when told to drop the gun. but he didn't point the gun at the officers. would that be within policy? is that a, quote, good shooting, as they describe it? versus bad shooting outside policy? >> absolutely, megyn. in fact, if you wait for the suspect to actually even move the gun, he will beat you to the first shot. and that's a fact that police departments have tested over and over and over. you know, the fact that he won't comply with orders and he is armed, that's unreasonable. it is unreasonable to think he is an innocent person not intent on doing possibly deadly harm to the officers. so when richard fowler talks

about policy, almost universally police department policy is more restrictive than the state law in which they reside. so i'm not sure change of policy would do much good. >> okay. got to stand you by. steve is getting bottles thrown at him by the crowd down there. steve? >> reporter: all right, this looks like a real push by the police. they have moved forward with stun grenades. you see man with a wheelchair trying to get to safety. more tear gas now. we are trying to back up here. this is the most heavy push by the police to try and clear this road. we are seeing some of the protesters fire back with bottles. beer bottles lobbed at the police. already seven police injured so far. from things being thrown at them. this is just a pure cloud of tear gas now as the police, we can see them in their riot gear,

batons and shields just marching through this cloud. a cloud that separates the police and protesters here in downtown charlotte as the police are using that tear gas to try and gain control own push protesters back. slowly and steadily. >> steve, how are you able to continue with your clear reporting? are you not being affected by the tear gas we are seeing, affect the people right next to you and the people next to your cameraman? >> no. we are trying to take refuge where we can. trying to get low where we can an pouring water over our faces. chris, myself and two excellent security guards provided by fox. we are taking refuge behind small wall. so when people run we won't get trampled. to far we've been fortunate. but we are being very careful. oh, they are spraying mace now. mace. now we just keep running back. we've seen tear gas, now we are seeing mace. the police announced they will arrest anyone who is still on

the street. but they haven't been able to do that. they've been making threats and not being able to keep them as protesters now have been in a violent standoff now for more than one hour with the charlotte police. >> each and every one of those officers has a family of his or her own and has sworn to uphold and protect the law and protect the community and has been doing so from city to city in this country as we face the threat of isis and other inspired domestic terrorists like we saw here in new york and new jersey just this week. police are doing a brilliant job to keep us safe. there is no question there are some bad apples and we have seen some quote bad shootings outside of policy. like the walter scott tas. cases in which bad cops have given all cops a bad name. trying to make a bad shooting look like a legitimate one. in the african-american community has worn the brunt of it in those cases because they are the ones who feel targeted.

and there has been systemic racism found in departments like in ferguson, missouri. and this one, run by an african-american police chief. and not that majority close to it who say they have no inherent biassed against african-americans. only biassed against an unsafe community and want only to keep that community safe and keep themselves safe and go home alive to their families at the end of the night. steve has covered war zones for the fox news channel all over the world and find himself in what looks like one in north carolina. in north carolina. tonight. want to get back to richard. sorry. back to mark with his thoughts. on what these cops are thinking right now. and what you think is going through their heads. >> megan, they've been on the line now and fighting and they

have to get other officers to relief some of these line officers eventually. they also are probably running low on tear gas and mace. rubber bullets. beanbags and they are going to have to keep supplying these officers and getting fresh officers from other agencies. and they will maintain control. and this police chief will maintain this line and he will get control of his city, there's no doubt in my mind. but they're not going to back off and let the rioters have the city. it's just not going to happen. >> before i let you go, mark, do they need more manpower out there? the protesters are not listening. they are not dispersing. >> well, megyn, no doubt they have reserves. and they know doubt have got other agencies that have been pulled in to assist. they've got reserve officers. they have plenty of officers. but they want to maintain control of this and try to do it

with the least amount of use of force. >> they want order. mark fuhrman, thank you. they have brought in several s.w.a.t. team units we're told as well and appear to need all the help they can get. ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being with us tonight. and trusting us for this coverage. sean hannitiy is live now. and thanks, megyn. this is a. if news alert. angry protest turned deadly in charlotte, north carolina. town hall by the way with donald trump will air tomorrow night. one person tonight has been shot and killed during the clashes between the protesters and the police. it was a is you villain on civilian violence after several gunshot rang out in the middle of all this chaos. police say the victim was shot and killed by another civilian. the second night of unrest stemming from the shooting of a 43-year-old black man who police say was armed and disobeying orders. the victim's family is claiming he was only holding a book. police held a press conference earlier today and they tried to make the facts of the investigation open to the public