breaking tonight, a history making showdown. 15 months in the making. hillary clinton versus donald trump in the highly anticipated first presidential debate. it appears nothing was off limits. welcome to a live 11:00 p.m. edition of the kelly file, everyone. reporting live from the spin room at hofstra university. now, the candidates and supporters are trying to spin the narrative. interestingly it was hillary clinton who struck first, hitting donald trump on his privileged past and from there, things went down hill, quickly. much of the debate was not necessarily focused on policy, but politics of personal disruption. when it was over, analysts say

mrs. clinton scored by saying on offense, but mr. trump hardly disqualified himself. here are just a few highlights. watch. >> you have to judge us. who can shoulder the immense, awesome responsibilities of the presidency? >> you've been doing this for 30 years. why are you just thinking about these solutions right now? >> i know how to really work to get new jobs and to get exports that help to create more new jobs. >> well, you haven't done it in 30 years or 26 years. >> but i've been a senator. >> you haven't done it. >> i have been a secretary of state. and i have done -- >> you signed nafta, one of the worst thing that's ever happened. >> that is your opinion. >> go to her website, she tells you how to fight isis on her website. >> at least i have a plan to

fight isis. >> you're telling the enemy everything you want to do. no matter you've been fighting isis your entire adult life. >> i have no reason to believe he's ever going to return his tax returns because there is something he's hiding. >> a typical politician. all talk, no action. sounds good. doesn't work. >> secretary clinton doesn't want to use a couple of words. that is law and order. >> secretary clinton, last week, you said we've got to do everything possible to go at policing to go after insistent bias, do you think police officers are implicitly biassed against black people? >> i have better judgment than she does. there is no question about that. >> we'll have trump campaign

manager kelly ann conway. and judge andrew napolitano has been standing by. we begin the night with chris stire walt and how year kurtz here with me. great to see you in spin alley. >> how about them apples? we've been waiting to get down to it and we got down to it. >> they got down to it. >> we're going to have a conversation with the american people, blah. blah. blah. blah. pow, pow. she had a better night than he did. and i remind you, there are three of these suckers. he's going to get better at these things. he's aware of the format and understands it better, he let a lot of opportunities go by, especially on her e-mail. and shaped up benghazi with obama. he let the e-mail issue fly off

the table. >> he had one line. >> it was a very good line. he talked about it was intentional but he let it go because she distracted him by making fun of his taxes. >> right. howie, your thoughts? >> donald trump discussed serious issues for 90 minutes, the secretary of state doesn't commit any major gaffes. hillary clinton won the night on points. she was aggressive out of the gate and in basketball terms, she controlled the ball. donald trump was controlling points, he was doing so on response to her issues. and she kind of controlled the tempo of the evening. >> how so? >> for all of the debate about leftor holt fact checking. the most aggressive questions from moderators, most attempts have fact checking, the most interruptions were into trump.

including birther issue, race issue and tax returns. >> to be fair, i thought mr. holt did a pretty good job. >> trump didn't answer the questions right? >> but on the e-mail, the only thing he answered was donald trump bringing up. >> you can do it like that as a moderator. he opened the debate with the subject very favorable to trump. >> yes. >> trump had solid 15, 0 minutes on trade and he was doing great. >> right. right. >> it wasn't until he was put on the defense that things started to brush. >> he opens the door, opens up the stable doors and waits there for trump to run the horses out and trample her on e-mail and he goes back to his taxs. >> i think hillary clinton's bemused expression following donald trump's one liners got under his skin. he started to talk louder, faster, trying to compete with

her. as time went on, it seemed to me he got a little bit more distributed. >> you tell me whether she got cocky in the end. this was one shot, the shoulders. she had done a good job of keeping her composure, she had a couple lines saying i think he's making fun of the fact i stayed home to prepare for this debate, do you know what i prepared for? this presidency. it was just a throw away comment he made. >> she also made a notable error on the same thing, being cocky and arrogant. at the end, lester holt heated up and said, mr. trump, you said she doesn't look presidential, is that about her gender? >> that answer is that stupid thing, i flew to this many countries and, she realized, oh, right, i have something to say about him being sexist and i forgot to say it. >> she jammed it in.

>> we have charles krauthammer lined up. charles, what did you think? >> it was not the knock out fight that we thought. it was a spirited fight and something like a draw. and i do believe the draw goes to the challenger in the sense that trump did not go over the line. the very fact he can go 90 minutes on the same stage that is challenging. i think he did allow himself to get very defensive and she exploited that. she kept coming back for things where he wasted a lot of time on taxes and other issues he felt personally about, and, as a result, he missed a lot of opportunities. she presented herself as she always does.

solid, solid, knows her stuff, not terribly exciting but reliable. i think that is the best she can do. likable, she couldn't but that is not something within her reach. he contained himself. i don't think he committed any gaffes. she can find something personal about him that would make him go down radically at a time when he had wide open to go after her on e-mails and other items, and let them go. >> what did you make of the fact that prior to the debate, analysts were saying they both needed to reach out to college-educated white voters. that they're fighting over this colleague-educated white voters that would normally be voting for trump, but have hesitant.

>> i don't think there is something of substance that either of them said. i think this is all about personality. the reason the debate was so anticipated is in the that people wanted to hear what would be said on this issue or that, people heard the issues expressed by the candidates nonstop, now, for months. they know their positions. they wanted to see how they interact and what their demeanor is. i think on demeanor she came out slightly ahead but nonetheless, so he was heralded as a guy who sort of out of control, you can't trust nuclear codes to and all that. the fact he was reasonable sort of moderate, moderating himself, i think is to his advantage. so if anything it would at least not stopped his momentum. >> charles, great to see you. >> so there was a big reaction from debate observers tonight

when mrs. clinton took her first question on e-mail. watch. >> i made a mistake using a private e-mail. >> that is for sure. >> if i had to do it over again, i would obviously do it differently, but i'm not going to make any excuses. it was a mistake and i take responsibility for that. >> mr. trump? >> that was more than a mistake. that was done purposely. not a mistake. when you have your staff taking the fifth amendment, taking the fifth, so they're not prosecuted, when you have the man that set up the illegal server taking the fifth, i think it's disgraceful. and believe me, this country thinks it's disgraceful, really thinks it's disgraceful, also. >> joining me now, brian falon, great to have you. >> thanks for having me. >> i think she thinks she won.

she's taking hits for claiming not saying that nafta was a gold standard. she did say that. right? what did you make of the fact checking done on the talk. >> on ttd? >> right. >> look. i think she explained that in the debate. at one point she was hoping it was final negotiated in detail, would become issuing support. she has been pretty clear and open about that. >> she denied saying waits the gold standard and she did say that. >> that was something said. i think she only issued the economy. first 15 minutes were devoted to the economy. i think she took her fight to donald trump right away. the economy is the number one issue we wanted to talk about in this debate and i think from the beginning she showed she was a candidate to have the plan to get wages rising in this country and she put him on his heel when she said she wants to build an

account that works for everybody. not just helping get them started in business. that seemed to have merit. >> what, over all, did she execute the plan you have for her? we were told she didn't think it was worth it. but it seemed like she was on the attack most of the night. >> i have to be honest. we were surprised by the donald trump that showed up. this is the donald trump we saw throughout the primary. i really thought his debate coaches were really going to impress upon him the need to come and try to strike and even tone and show temperament he hasn't shown at any point in this campaign in the last second bid to try to seem like he was temper mentally fit to be commander in chief. this is something that from the tail end, could really go after the rails. i think he doubled down on some of the biggest lies he told in this campaign.

whether it's birtherism theory or support for the iraq war. i think that led to a tangent that was hard to follow. >> can i ask you about the birther discussion? she did some of that as well. >> she didn't. >> explain why that is true. trump is right that the mcclatchy bur yes chief came to him and said go to kenya. go, investigate this. and we think trump may been born there. someone in kenya to go and investigate it. >> politico looks into those things and published a report, and talked to reporters that were tasked to look into this. they said this is something else entirely. we weren't looking at birtherism. >> they said they couldn't remember. they said they went over. the reporter who spoke with the bureau chief said i'm certain

that would have been one of the things that they would asked us to look into. >> so donald trump invoked the former campaign manager from 2008. >> right. >> and she went on television last week and admitted they had some role in the birther conspiracy. and as soon as they learned about it, they fired this person. >> this is hillary clinton probably going home, taking a rest after a long, long night here in hofstra university which was full of fire works. >> well, i think actually that we have a debate watch party close by. >> is that right? >> i'm just saying it's been a hell of a day for even reporters. >> i think she was pretty tireless up there. >> sure health is fine. is she over pneumonia? >> i think it takes a while to get over pneumonia.

she didn't show signs of tonight. >> before moving away from the birther issue, do we have a sound byte about how trump talking about doing president obama a favor? he said, and i have the note here, that i think i did a great job for the country on that and for the president himself to get him to release that birth certificate. there were audible gasps when he said that. what is your reaction? >> what nerve, what chutzpah to act like he did the president a favor after the birther conspiracy. i think hillary clinton spoke in pretty plain terms on what that meant to the country and it's a shame he just won't apologize. >> what do you think about the polls won't tighten. he has almost seven point lead and now, it's down to colorado, he's up one now. pennsylvania within two. all states in double digits just

a month ago. >> absolutely. you're right. the race is tight. one thing i don't think people should conclude from tonight is that i think this is a huge victory for hillary clinton, i don't expect it to change in the polls. i think that is just the nature of the race. i think this is going to be tight through to the finish line. >> another question, hillary clinton went on record, called your truly the preferred journalist when trump was attacking me. why won't she come on he kelly file"? >> i think it's only a matter of time. >> before the election? >> i'm going to go back after i walk off this platt foform to g her on the show. >> appreciate you being here. now, donald trump is leaving. maybe going home to rest. that is what i'm going to be doing after i leave here. you can see donald trump with his family. that is ivanka's husband, jared kushner who many say has more

influence over this campaign than anyone else, ivanka and jared have become very important in terms of this campaign. how many millions of americans tuned in to watch that rumble here in hofstra. more must see reaction on the way. mark thessian, the one gaffe he said he saw tonight and tucker carlson is here with bill burton, judge andrew napolitano is here tonight with a fascinating take. and supporters of both candidates debate who won the night. robert zimmerman back in two minutes. don't go away. >> when isis formed in this vacuum created by barack obama and secretary, and believe me, you're the one that's took out the troops. you named -- they couldn't believe it.

they sat back probably and said -- >> wait a minute. they formed, this is something that never should have happened. you're talking about taking out isis. you were there and you were secretary of state when it was a little infant. now, it's just over 30 countries and you're going to stop them? i don't think so. my fellow americans,

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why won't you release his tax returns? and i think there may be a couple of reasons. first, maybe he's not as rich as he is he is. second, maybe he's not as charitable as he claims to be. third, we don't know all of his business dealings, but we have been told through investigative reporting that he owes about $650000000 to wall street and foreign banks or maybe, he doesn't want the american people, all of you watching tonight to know he paid nothing in federal taxes. >> that is hillary clinton on the attack, questioning why donald trump will not release his tax information. he says he's under audit. joining us now, supporters of both candidates, and mark cuban, entrepreneur and hillary clinton supporter. great to see you both. let me start with you, mark cuban. you made a lot of news because hillary put you in the front row.

and do you feel you did that? >> i wanted to bring my 12-year-old daughter who is turning 13 to the debate. they got me two tickets and i decided to tweet and added i was going but i didn't add the part that i got front row. so i went rogue on that. i didn't think it would blow up. >> next thing you know, jennifer flowers is called to show up. >> yes. >> you were happy there was no jennifer? >> i didn't care. i was just there for the event. >> it could have been a circus side show, yes. >> loet me give you the first 2 minutes. they're just saying how they thoug thought. >> i thought it looked scripted but then, i saw trump and he did revert to the original donald trump. and they have spontaneous -- >> you like that?

>> i like it. he got his issues out there and got put america first out there. and law and order about there. and e-mails. >> he took the bait on that. she went through why isn't he releasing his tax returns? he didn't pivot way from it. >> she goes into her problems with e-mails and clinton foundation. the irs says i can release my taxes my lawyer says no, i'm not releasing it. and that is what it boils down to. i think it was a distraction. and threw him off a little bit. >> most analysts saying trade was the issue. did you agree with that? >> he was cool, calm, when he was talking about it. but the rest of the debate he was counter punching like he

tries to do but you never took control of a question. there was a moderator who asked questions and more often than not he didn't answer the question and never got around to answer the question. you can tell it frazzled him. when secretary clinton came back with specifics, he was just deflecting and change the topic. i just didn't feel, he had an opportunity to take control of his issues and prove that he understood them, but he didn't do that at all. >> do you think she was fact checked enough? and she brushed off the sydney blumenthal thing that it wasn't true, but it is true. >> everybody is going to fact check, but donald had a chance, if you understood those issues to talk more about them. it wasn't like he just stuck to the script. he went in whatever direction he wanted to.

they asked him what are you going to do about domestic terrorism? . >> i thought he did unbelievably well about crime and justice. and the issue of crime in new york city, it turns out, rape, robbery, murders skyrocketed, property crime, inconsequential crime is down. he should have brought that up. but that is true. serious crimes on the way up. when it comes to law and order, she won't even say those words. >> we have a sound byte of that. let's watch trump and hillary arguing over crime in new york city. >> stop and frisk had a tremendous impact in new york city. tremendous beyond belief. so it had a very, very big impact. >> it's fair to say if we're going to talk about mayors that under the current mayor, crime continued to drop, including murders. so there is -- >> murders are up.

>> murders are up and these are the facts. in 2014 it was 333 murders, 2015. and he just he deflected this is constitutional. he was talking about lower judges. and it turns out, they often found people who are illegally carrying weapons. >> okay. >> so black, white, hispanic? where does stop and frisk end? who gets to determine who is stopped and who is frisked? at point they're going to stop and frisk you and look for a gun. so there is a lot more at stake. >> they have to articulate a reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is -- what

about the accusation that trump did not get specific on the plan for isis again? >> look. i mean he asked that before he's going to carpet bomb the you know what out of them. i think he would do that. he can get very, very aggressive. he also acknowledges that is hard to deal with. number one priority is stopping them here, and every week, we're seeing a new attack. >> i got to ask you this. i have to ask you this. why don't you like donald trump? you're a billionaire. he's a billionaire. is it professional envy? jealously? gorilla situation? what is it? >> it's about the kids, the future of the country. you see his temperament. at the base of everything he said he would not honor our chitments as a country. he proved that that his way of doing business. >> like nato. >> and world peace. what is more important? asking for more money from japan or world peace? >> we'll get both.

they have to pay their fair share if they want our forces to risk their lives. >> fair share is relative to donald trump. he stiffed architects and thousands of people and stood up there on the debate stage that they didn't do it. maybe i didn't think they did a good enough job and that is why they didn't get paid. what are you going to say to japan? you didn't pay enough so we're not going to be there for you? >> we have to leave it at that. >> awesome. >> as i mentioned, one big moment came when donald trump went after mrs. clinton and her issue of trade and support for owe the tpp deal. listen. >> you've been doing this for 30 years. why are you just thinking about these solutions right now? >> i think my husband did a pretty good job in the 1990s. >> your husband signed nafta, one of the worst thing that's ever happened to manufacturing. so i can't win that debate. you know if you did win, would you approve that.

that would be almost as bad as nafta. nothing will ever top nafta. >> that is just not nafta. ways against it once it was finally negotiated and terms were laid out. i wrote about that in -- >> you called it the gold standard of trade deals. you said it's the finest deal you ever seen. >> no. >> then, you heard what i said bit and all of a sudden, you were against it. >> mrs. clinton repeatedly denied trump's claims, suggesting he lived in a world of made up information but here is mrs. clinton in 2012. >> we need to keep upping our game bilaterally and with partner as cross the region through agreements like the trance pacific partnership or tpp. this sets the gold standard in trade agreements to open free trance parent, fair, trade. the kind of environment that has the rule of law and a level

playing field. and when negotiated this agreement will cover 40% of the world's total trade, and build in strong protection for workers and the environment. >> joining me now, mark theissan, and mo aliki. great to see you both. >> great to see you, megyn. >> she flipped on tpp. she flipped on it. >> i think she gave herself enough poll in the beginning she got to the point to say if this isn't negotiated the way i like it, i'm not going to be important. that is where she is. >> she flipped. >> when you look at it and compared to the rest of it -- >> but, there is plenty of blame to go around. >> if she'd said what mo said she'd be fine. >> the other thing is that she

accused him of saying climate change is a hoax and done for the benefit of china. he denied that. he did send that out in a tweet in 2012. it's still on his twitter feed. he tried to claim that that was a joke, but he repeatedly referred to climate change as a hoax and said it's for the benefit of china. so i mean that is what we're left with. they lied to us. and we, as the media have to separate the wheat from the chaf. >> i think it's kind of in the weeds. he said he seemed to take -- >> trump? >> trump seemed to make a nuclear first strike off the table which would make him the first president in the nuclear age going back to eisenhower to have taken a nuclear first strike off the table. that is very troubling for national security concerns struggling whether to vote for trump or not. >> and she may be more of a hawk

than he is? >> possibly. >> let's go bigger pick you're now. what is your position of the debate. >> donald trump's bar is really low coming in. the problem with a low bar, it's easy to trip over it. i think he tripped over it. i think he came, he reverted to primary trump. right? at a time when he was trying to, having a concerned element. he reverted to primary trump but with less charm. right? he was angry, defensive. she got under his skin very early. i thought she might for 1 or 2 points in the debate but from 10 minutes in she was intent and under his skin. i don't think he reacted well. she took him off his game. >> so this they both want to be likable. and then, towards the end, with her with the shoulders it was

like, wow, too much. going too far. am i wrong? . >> i don't think you're wrong, but i they he made a big mistake in interrupting her. >> he had a little bit of that. do we have that sound byte? just to show the audience what we're seeing and how it felt here. do we have it? my team is doing a brilliant job. we have a lot of talent. we're separating it out. the interrupting sound bytes. stand by. this is fun. keep going. i won't interrupt you again. >> the point being is that he kept physically interrupting her. if you go back to the first debate in 2000, when al gore was debating george w. bush he won the debate on point. but kept rolling his eyes and s like a jerk. that was their impression. i think trump's interrupting, had a few sides when she was speaking that that will be the sigh and eye roll of the 2016 debate. so i think she came out ahead in this debate. let's keep in mind in 2012, rom

any crushed barack obama in the first debate. this is far from over. >> barack obama's top advisors told him after that debate you suck. and he was like what? and they said you stuck and even michelle obama pulled him aside and said yes. you suck. he came out a different man. >> does donald trump who will turn around and look at him and say "you suck"? >> is he the kind of candidate that will listen to that and recalibrate and adjust? if this campaign tells us anything -- >> but did he lose any voters? >> i don't think he expanded right? if that college educated white crowd is sitting on the fence, i don't think he pulled hem over to his side. i think he raised concerns from a host of issues on foreign yie

yiesh-issues saying when you don't pay income taxes he said iths because i'm smart, what does that say about the rest of us? that we're chumps? >> we suck, too. >> well, donald trump made this campaign largely about his business past saying he had the right experience to turn the country around. and mrs. clinton invoking his new campaign manager. >> if your main claim to being president of the united states is business, we should talk about that. your campaign manager said that you built ht of businesses on the backs of little guys. and indeed i have met a lot of the people stiffed by you and your businesses. we have an architect that designed one of your club houses and it immediately was put to

use. and you won't pay what the man needed to be paid when he was charging you. >> maybe he didn't do a good job and i was unsatisfied with his work. which our country should do, too. >> owe to the thousands of people you have stiffed over the course of your business, not deserve some kind of apology? >> when secretary clinton talks about people that didn't get paid, first of all, they did get paid a lot. but taken advantage of the laws of the nation. now, if you want to change the laws you've been there a long time. change the laws but i take advantage of the laws of of the nation. because i'm running a company. my obligation right now is to do well for myself, my family, my employees, through my companies. >> well, that campaign manager joins me now. kelly ann conway, great to see you thank you for being here.

>> first of all, what did you think of that? quoting you. >> right outside of atlantic city, putting me through law school, i'd like to challenge her to tell me that people like donald trump who revitalized atlantic city didn't do a good job. >> she came out swinging on this that he stiffed the little guy. he didn't defend them saying maybe they didn't do a good job or maybe didn't do the job to my liking. >> i thought mr. donald trump showed great restraint. more restraint than i may have in the face of fire and lies. particularly at the end.

he could have gone there and made clear he came ready to say things if she's going to challenge him about his record on women. and then, he decided he won't do that in front of her husband and daughter. and restraint is a virtue and a presidential virtue. i think for all of the people who like to talk about human temperament, they should think about all of the things going through millions of americans' heads that he didn't say. i really appreciated it. other thing is that donald trump is somebody who employed tens of thousands of people over the years. think about that. benefits, health care and many of them are women. he's promoted women to the highest levels in his campaign. and corporations. what jobs has she created? so i think his record on business creation and job creation why didn't he go harder

after the females? >> he was the only one, the moderator saying -- >> he might have had a question ready. >> perhaps. >> that happens. >> perhaps. so donald trump did mention the fact that she deleted 23,000 e-mails which is very much on the minds of americans. >> i'm talking about truch supporters who wanted to see him go after that more. that is a big issue for reporters. >> i hope we'll see more that have before the debates. in other words we don't have to wait to find out who these people are in the issues. we did have to wait for that from mrs. clinton. she doesn't give policy issues. she's spoken about policies we don't know. because we're not donors at her fund-raisers. and that is an incredibly important point here. mr. trump is out there every day, talking about policy. she waited until she filled her

head with these facts and figures and made sure we heard everything. >> it's harder when you're sitting in this chair, and i can play the sound byte. of you saying how tpp is the gold standard. that is a harder situation than being on the debate stage. >> yes. >> so let me ask you to grade both performances his and hers. >> i'm so bad at that. >> take a stab at it. >> i'd give them both a satisfactory in that i guess 90 minutes went too quickly for me. america didn't hear she's for late term abortion, selective abortion. >> and social issues. >> and she was absolutely against gay marriage in 2008 and emphatically so. the first time she lost president and this time she changed her mind completely. there wasn't much on the border. i think frankly her very amnesty-like open boirders policy on immigration, what

would she do with syrian refugees? but that is not failing of anybody on the debate stage as much as just in time. >> yes. >> hes taking heat just a moment ago for interrupting her. she was saying things with which he disagreed and he was saying not true or whatever. they weren't -- it was sort of back and forth. is that a mistake or fair game? >> it's fair to defend yourself. i think when you're in a situation like that, you're just so shocked that somebody would lie and try to spin it in realtime in front of tens of millions of people, that you feel the only way to defend yourself is your natural reaction. he's not a politician. and so hillary clinton has participated in 34 primary debates. it's a remarkable number. >> he said he has been that too many and won everyone. >> she's a practiced politician. he never asked me as a pollster, what word do i use? what tie should i wear?

>> you've got to respect that. >> now, by the way, sorry for interrupting you. >> no. go for it. >> here is what i want to get out. he was saying not true and this is how it was and not a fact. instead of interrupting her, she was rolling her eyes, very blatant sometimes with a very smirk on her. >> why did he say he hasn't caused climate change and saying waits for china's benefit? because he did. >> i think he was saying as a presidential candidate, he has said clearly, and recently, that -- >> that -- >> suggested that trying to benefit. >> i can tell you does say often. >> he. >> doesn't -- he has said many scientists are exaggerating because they're paid to do so. they're very different on climate change. >> they are. i'm trying to -- you're

suggesting that she lies. and it's conclusive to people that all politicians lie. >> but in newest abc news washington post poll, more americans think is that she's not honest and trust worthy than him by a pretty significant margin. >> thank you very much. appreciate it. what are the other things you heard from observers is that lester holt pressed donald trump harder than he did hillary clinton. here is an example from our sightings. >> mr. trump, a lot of these are judgment questions. do you as supporters of war in iraq before the invasion. >> i did not support the war with iraq. that is a main stream media nonsense put out by her because she frankly i think the best person in her campaign is main stream media. >> my question is -- >> would you like to hear i was

against -- wait a minute. i was against the war with iraq. just so you put it out. >> the record says otherwise. >> the record shows i'm right. i did an interview with heard stern, very lightly. first time anyone asked me that, i said, very lightly. i don't know, maybe, who knows. essentially. >> joining me now, tucker carlson and bill burton. great to see you both. tucker what did you think? >> i think trump won because he didn't melt down. i mean, does he know he talks about himself too much? of course he does. the basic point is that he didn't invade iraq. he didn't kill gaggafi. he didn't pick up quantitative easing. he is not part of the quantitative disasters and he is winning in the polls. if he continues not to screw up,

he will win. >> bill? >> well, i agree with tucker that politicians should be grated on the curve and the bar was very low for donald trump. the problem is that he was a disaster tonight. i thought hillary clinton, as well as kelly ann talk about the debate just reenforced the fact they also thought it was a disaster. look at those guys walking out of the tunnel. donald trump was angry, you know, having tough conversations. he has to find a path to 270 electoral votes. it does not go through the kind of crazy rantings you saw tonight holding loosely associated with that. >> notwithstanding what you characterized as trump, you know, he is surging right now, bill. and colorado within one, pennsylvania within two, florida, ohio tight as could be. north carolina is tight again.

i mean, he's surging. >> yes. wai it was always going to be a close race. i don't think millennials are going to support her. i think african american and latino votes are going to be higher than showed in the polls but donald trump had a special issue he had to attend to. find the college educated and suburban voters that he needs to actually lock in states. donald trump may be moving ahead but there is not many places where he's above 45% to 46%. he's got to get past 50. to push past he has to be a person that showed tonight he cannot be. >> tucker, it's fun to blame moderators. i've been there. i thought lester holt did a fine job. what did you think? >> yeah. whatever. i mean, you know who he's voting for. i don't think it matters. what matters is that registered republicans, i mean, who cares? and i think trump wisely didn't whine about it.

when you whine about that stuff, whatever. the point is that he had to convince, whatever, the middle, undecided who are not undecided, because they never are, they're hoping for permission to vote for the insurgent. it's a changed election. you have more of the same when you want to change. so if he can convince him he's basically not crazy, he wins which is why he's winning. look at the numbers. >> great to see you both. thanks, guys. up next, judge napolitano and dana perino on what was not said tonight.

whenpneumococcal pneumonia, it was huge for everybody. she just started to decline rapidly. i was rushed to the hospital. my symptoms were devastating. the doctor said, "pam! if you'd waited two more days, you would've died." pneumococcal pneumonia almost took me from them. if i had known that a vaccine could have helped prevent this, i would have asked my doctor about it.

>> don't americans have a roit to know if there are conflicts of interest? >> i'm under routine audit and it will be released. >> irs has a comment that you're free to release your taxes during an audit. does the public's right to know about. >> i told you i will release them against my lawyer's wishes, when she releases her 33,000 e-mails that have been deleted. as soon as she releases them, i will tax returns. >> that is mr. trump taking a

hit and scoring a point when he turned the issue from his tax returns to clinton's e-mails. and judge andrew nap tan yes, great to see you both. so let me start with you, dana. how did you think it went? >> i think if you're home and undecided you might have said huh. i still don't know. so the second debate becomes really important. i don't think trump expanded his base in any way. i do think she did something she needed to do. shoring up wobbly democrats. we know democrats have been uneven thus yaftic about her candidacy. and they are not sure. she was not bernie sanders and not president obama. tonight she was able to say look, i'm here, healthy and here to fight for you. >> she didn't look near death as some of her did he tractors would have us believe. >> she did not. >> judge we have been discussing this e-mail issue and immunity

deals and director comey. it's like it barely was there. >> you know, i can tell you about fbi agents that believe our hands were tied. intelligence staff saying americans died because she failed to retain national security secrets. he didn't go anywhere. he didn't mention that. i thought she clobbered him. these debates are won or lost not on debating points but general impression. the empregs is that she controlled the ball and he failed to address the perception she is unworthy of trust. >> wow. >> well, it's interesting. he had that comey, you know he had that bath and forth to outline the number of faults delivered to the fbi and it does require home work to deliver

that kind of thing, judge. >> i don't think he was prepared. since i know some of the people that were preparing him, some are here and probably went in one ear and out the other. he thought he would win this debate the way he won the primary debate. she was poised, charming, intelligent and for the first time, likable. >> for the first time. what do they do now, dana? i think the hillary clinton campaign will realize they had a horrible september but going into october with the wind at their backs and donald trump's team will say he's obviously fit to be commander in chief and who cares about debates. because it doesn't matter and he made a good point she spent all of the money for no good reason. >> good point.

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who do you think won tonight's presidential debate? let me know what you think. thanks for watching everyone. this is the kelly file. a have good night for donald trump. tonight, we'll speak with the man himself, and laura ingraham but first, after he stepped off the stage, i had the very first interview. here it is. >> how are you feeling? >> i feel great. i liked it. i enjoyed it. i thought it was a great debate. yes. a passione