you know what? that is the name of our new show. tell you what. you know what? yes, have a great afternoon, everybody. i will be off a couple days. i will see you. back for the vice-presidential debate. looking forward to it. "happening now" starts right now. ♪ jenna: a historic, fiery first debate is one for the record books. now donald trump and hillary clinton are both back on the road again. hello, everybody, jenna lee and back with us, jon scott. >> back from vacation. we have a debate to warm up with. i am jon scott. hours after facing off first time the candidates head back to the swing states which will decide this election of course. donald trump campaigning in florida today. hillary clinton is in north carolina. as the battleground state polls keep getting tighter. each candidate wants to tap momentum from last night's big

event, a debate began with smiles and hand shakes but quickly turned into acerbic exchange of very tough attacks. >> donald was one of the people that rooted for housing crisis. he said in 2006, i hope it collapses because i can go in and buy some and make some money. it did collapse. >> that is called business. >> nine -- >> hillary, you have been doing this for 30 years. why are you just thinking about these solutions right now? for 30 years you've been doing it. and now you're just starting to think of solutions. i will release my tax returns against my lawyers wishes when she releases her 33,000 emails that have been deleted. and as soon as she releases them, i will release. >> you have to ask yourself, why won't he release his tax returns. and i think there may be a couple of reasons. first, maybe he is not as rich as he says he is. or maybe he doesn't want the

american people, all of you watching, tonight, to know he has paid nothing in federal taxes. >> our country has tremendous problems. we're a debtor nation. we're a serious debtor nation and we have a country that needs new roads, new tunnels, new bridges, new airports, new schools, new hospitals and we don't have the money because it has been squandered on so many of your ideas. >> let you respond -- >> maybe because you haven't paid any federal income tax a lot of years. >> and i think i did a great job and great service not only for the country but even for the president in getting him to produce his birth certificate. >> secretary clinton. >> he has really started his political activity based on this racist lie that our first black president was not an american citizen. well i hope the fact-checkers are turned, turning up the volume and really working hard. donald supported the invasion of iraq. >> wrong. >> that is absolutely proved over and over again.

>> wrong. you look at middle east. it's a total mess under your direction to a large extent. you started iran deal. that is another beauty where you have a country ready to fall. they were doing so badly. they were choking on the sanctions and now they're going to be actually probably a major power at some point pretty soon way they're going. >> talk with the aftermath. carol lee white house correspondent for "wall street journal." good to have you here this morning. high expectations, high ratings we were told for this debate. did it live up to the billing? >> well, it was a very spirited debate. i think it definitely did. it covered a tremendous bunch of ground from policies to questions about they each have about each other's character. there weren't any real big knockout moments in the debate but there were each of them had some basehits and you know, it is not clear whether donald trump, who came into this needing to keep the trend,

polling trend moving in his direction, whether he won any new voters over. particularly women and independents. conventional wisdom says hillary won the debate. we haven't seen the polling. clinton team feels very good about her performance. jon: she spent years in the public eye, doing this kind of thing. >> that's right. jon: also years as an attorney doing this kind of thing. so you might expect that she might do better on the first debate but i have received emails from lots of viewers who say i don't care personally how well donald trump does on the debates. that's what we like about him. he is not a traditional politician. if that is the bar, did meet that bar? >> well, he did not perform in a way typical politician would.

he has some interesting one-liners i think that would play to his supporters. he said that she has a lot of experience but it is bad experience. he tried to cast her as the kind ever politician that voters are tired of in that, you know the kind of politician who says a lot of things but really doesn't do anything. you talked about her being in the spotlight for 30 years and having plenty of opportunity to make kinds ever changes she is promising to make. i do think one of the interesting things in watching donald trump last night was that he is usually the one who is on the attack. he goes after people's character and he is very vigorous about that. and he let some opportunities go by. one thing struck me hillary clinton was one brought up benghazi, did so in oblique way, testified before congress for 11 hours but he let that moment go by. i found that interesting. that is one of the things that he attacked her on the campaign trail for months. jon: also, missed an opportunity it seems when she brought up russian hacking into u.s.

government and dnc servers and so forth. >> yeah, he didn't really go after her on the emails, again which has been not only something that he is criticized her about from the start but something that voters have really, raised questions for voters whether or not she is trustworthy. his main line on that was, that her aides are pleading the fifth when there is whole other array of ways in which he could have criticized her on that, and he chose this very narrow path. so you know, i think next debate, it will be very interesting to see what kind of adjustment he makes. and also how she prepares for what would be, what you would think would be some significant adjustments on his part. jon: but the momentum has been in his direction, lately. and i wonder whether, anything that was said by either candidate last night is enough to blunt that momentum? >> it's, that's the big question. we'll probably have that figured

out in a little bit, better picture on that in a few days. i think to go -- donald trump didn't lose anybody. if you were supporting him, you saw what you wanted to see last night.i think the question is wr he was able to move anybody toward him, particularly women. there were some very pointed moments in the debate about his comments about women. was that effective? it remains to be seen. jon: he spoke on "fox & friends" this morning by phone about that particular issue. here's what he had to say. i want to play this for you. >> when she hit me at the end with the women i was going to hit her with her husband's women and i decided i shouldn't do it. >> that is what you were talking about. >> is that what you mentioned i had something i could bring up but didn't want to bring up. >> having to do with her husband. >> many people -- >> all of the woman. they sort of thought that was it. and i didn't feel comfortable doing it. i think i did the right thing. it is not worth a point. i didn't feel comfortable doing

it with chelsea in the room. chelsea is a fine young lady. i didn't like doing its with chelsea in the room. jon: chelsea will be there for every debate. that issue might be off the table for him if that is how he feels about it. >> if that is how he feels about it, but flirting with the idea of raising it and so it would be surprising if he did raise that next time. and i think, his supporters expect that from him. whether or not that plays well women that he needs to win over to his side, you know, is unclear because it is not hillary clinton who had an affair. it is her husband. jon: well, i'm sure you had a short night. thanks for getting up, sharing some thoughts with us. carol lee from the "wall street journal." thank you, carol. we want to hear from you. who do you think won the big debate last night? our live chat up and running. go to foxnews.com happening now join the conversation. jenna: developing situation in

the heartland of our country, awaiting what could be a flooding disaster in iowa with the cedar rapids river up to staggering 11 feet above flood stage. a massive effort as the city works to protect thousands of homes with rising waters. evacuation orders are in effect for neighborhoods in the city's low-lying neighborhoods. janice dean is with us. janice. >> you were talking about this yesterday. flooding came last week but we're still feeling results of this, over 10 inches of rainfall in parts of iowa and wisconsin. look at radar precipitation, of course the rivers are just cresting now. we'll be dealing with major flood stage at these rivers until at leaves sunday. the past 48 hours look good. conditions are dry. we're really not going to see any rainfall over next couple days but the damage is done. here is the river gauge observations. major flooding at the cedar river, which crested at its second highest in history, 22 feet.

so people are going to be still on edge over the next couple of days. the rivers will start to come down over, you know the next 48 hours but still at major flood stage in some cases until sunday. there is the future radar. this area of low pressure across the gulf, rather the great lakes but not getting into portions of iowa which is great news so people can start to repair, recover from this area that was inundated with upwards of 10 inches of rainfall. there is the five day forecast real quick. also want to quickly make mention the potential for this storm system, jenna. we think it will become matthew, our next named storm and the tropical models some are showing a hurricane by the weekened moving into the caribbean. all interests along the caribbean, cuba, dominican republic and east coast and gulf of mexico need to watch matthew. it might not be well-behaved as my son matthew. we'll put that out there. jenna: good context for us. thank you very much. >> of course. jon: i wonder if janice

submitted that name? that is how they get the names for the storms, people submit them. jenna: we know it is really a fixed system. jon: we're getting started here on america's election headquarters. after last night's debate hillary clinton is heading to the swing state of north carolina. where president obama made his first campaign appearance with mrs. clinton back in july. but new polls show the race is getting tighter there with just weeks to go. we'll take a look at the numbers. also hillary clinton and donald trump each laid out their vision for taxes in america. we'll break down those plans next. first, here's hillary clinton hitting trump regarding his wealth. >> you know donald was very fortunate in his life and that's all to his benefit. he started his business with $14 million borrowed from his father. and he really believes that the more you help wealthy people, the better off we'll be and that everything will work out from there. you pay your car insurance premium like clockwork.

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>> unmy plan i will be reducing taxes tremendously from 35% to 15%, companies small and big businesses. that will be a job creator we haven't seen since ronald reagan. it will be a beautiful thing to watch. >> the kind of plan that donald has put forth would be trickle-down economics all over again. it would be the most extreme version, biggest tax cuts for the toppers of the people in this country than we ever had. i call it trumped-up trickle-down. that is exactly what it would be. that is not how we grow the economy. jon: jenna: hillary clinton and donald trump sparring over taxes and. clinton wants to eliminate loopholes for corporations an trump wants to lower taxes across the board. economists can't seem to agree

which is better path. austan goolsbee, professor the university of chicago, former chairman of the president's economic council advisors. visor to hillary clinton. peter navarro, university of california, advisor to donald trump. let me start off with a question to both of you as we take a look at our question for the economist. we're in debt. our economy is growing but not gangbusters. our job market is okay. both sides say it could be better. what new ideas is either candidate really presenting that will change our economy and bring it to a new age if you will? austan, what new ideas does hillary clinton have? >> well i thought her two main parts of her economic idea on the investment side. she wants to raise get college more affordable and debt-free college for many americans and biggest infrastructure

investment in good jobs since eisenhower, those are new ideas. jenna: peter what is from donald trump is new. >> look, hillary clinton wants to raise taxes on business and let the government invest in high-risk ventures. that is not new. that is just stupid. jenna: what about donald trump. >> what donald trump want to do is four-point thing. basically cut taxes, that gets growth. cut regulation, that gets growth. unleash our energy sector. that gets growth. and balance our trade deficit. that gets growth. so everything donald trump is doing works integrated, synergistically, pushes us to 3 1/2% growth. we've been stuck for 15 years now below 2% growth. under the last eight years mr. obama doubled our debt to $20 trillion. if you look at hillary clinton's plan. it points in the opposite direction. everything she wants to do is -- increst regulation.

jenna: hold on a second. the reason why i'm asking you both this question, both candidates had very different, typical answers for democrat for republican, either to cut taxes or raise taxes. we all heard that before. question is whether or not either would produce a different result and our economy -- hold on a second, peter. peter said the fact that donald trump's plan would be more pro-growth. why do you think hillary clinton's plan would be m.o. pro-growth? >> i believe hillary clinton's plan is more pro-growth, where growth comes from having good people and good skills and public infrastructure is backdrop. if you think that low corporate tax what is generates growth, then what do you say to the fact that the lowest corporate tax rate in the world is in turkmenistan. the second lowest is in bosnia-herzegovina hers. >> highest tax rate is in america. jenna: peter, respond to that. what austan is pointing out, if you look at places with the lowest tax rates for companies

you're not seeing gang burst terse economy. >> turkmenistan. that is stupid too. like 35% corporate tax rate here in america and everybody helps is down in the 20s. germany, france, japan, south korea. >> where their growth rates are lower than ours. >> the tract rates, this infrastructure thing with hillary, let's make it clear. she wants to tax business which is anti-growth. she wants to create an infrastructure bank, highly leveraged structure. what she is doing is introducing subprime lending. i'll tell you what. college people, graduating now with degrees, got the skills, don't have the opportunity. that is the problem with this economy and infrastructure spending on subprime lend something not going to solve it. jenna: let me switch this conversation a little bit. donald trump talked about debt. austan let you respond to this first. play a little sound talking about our national debt regardless who gets white house

will have to deal with. run the sound. >> it is about time that this country had somebody running that has an idea about money. when we have $20 trillion in debt and our country is a mess, one thing to have 20 trillion in debt and our roads are good and our bridges are good and everything is in great shape, other airports, our airports are like from a third world country. jenna: austan, address that specifically. as real estate developer donald trump will have to be somebody that knows how to use debt. that is what real estate developing is, you use debt to develop, he is doing that somewhat. why wouldn't he have the skillset to handle that big of a problem? >> well, a, you see in that answer, he is all over the map. he is actually calling for an infrastructure program while at same time condemning a infrastructure program. he is saying there is too much debt while he himself processed a tax plan which will almost double the deficit over the next 10 years t was just content-fry.

it was confused and self-contradictory. jenna: peter, take that on. that is what is being said about donald trump's tax plan, it will add only more debt and not necessarily grow the economy. >> i disagree with donald trump as being the king of debt. the king of debt is obama palm and austan goolsbee. austan was in the white house. took us 230 years to get $10 trillion of debt and barack obama doubled it to 20 in eight years. what donald trump wants to do, okay, this debt discussion, we're either raise taxes or cut spending to solve the debt crisis. no, no, what you do, you double the growth rate and generate trillions of dollars of revenues and, millions of jobs and that is what donald trump is bringing. a different mind-set. >> magic beanstalk beans is exactly his plan. jenna: you're both talking. viewers just seeing the debt clock run. >> it is on austan goolsbee watch. >> magic bean talk. jenna: let's have you both back

to talk more about it. peter, austan, great to have you. >> thank thank you. jon: so both candidates were asked last night if they would support the eventual winner of presidential election. our next guest has been correctly predicting winner more than 30 years. his choice ahead.

>> you have to judge us, who can shoulder immense awesome responsiblities of presidency. who can put into action the plans that will make your life better. jenna: hillary clinton calling on american voters consider who can best handle the presidency. our next guest has been weighing that question for decades. since 1984 he has correctly picked the winner of every presidential election. now his forecast is america will vote trump.

here now, an american university professor of history. professor, we read your article in the "washington post" just recently. this was your prediction. but that article is old. that was before the debate. i'm curious if anything transpired over the last few hours that have changed your predictions? >> it certainly has hedged it even more. in "the washington post" article i said look, the verdict of history, which is what my keys are based on, indicates that this is year in which the white house party, the democrats, should lose. but i also noted in that "washington post" piece that i hedged my prediction the first time in 30 years, in donald trump we might have a history-shattering candidate who can change patterns that have held since 1860 in this country and enable me to correctly predict every election since 1984. we saw some of those patterns on display in the debate. we saw a candidate who had a lot

of trouble with truth. even challenging the moderator when moderator pointed out indeed he was not against the iraq war before it started. we saw him demeaning women by challenging the stamina of hillary clinton. we saw him again being the only candidate in many decades to refuse to release his tax returns. and we saw a candidate who seemed to lack the basic knowledge and temperament to be commander-in-chief. so what makes this election so fascinating is we have two competing, historical forces. on the one hand this should be a change election. we should get a republican president but on the other hand, we have a candidate who could shatter patterns of history because of his unique status which we saw on display last night and we have seen throughout this campaign with statements like he has made many times. jenna: i don't mean to interrupt you. that is interesting, the list that you mentioned are all things we discussed before in

relegs to donald trump. one wound -- wonders if we saw anything new that could change the trajectory. talk about the your methodology. going back to 1860, talk to the listeners the list you created true and false statements and how that helped you predict the presidency. >> the world only predicting historians. talking about people already dead, i don't do that. i did that for myselfing my system. i developed it in 1981 by looking every presidential election from 1860 when lincoln won to 1980 when reagan won, guided by the theory that presidential elections are primary judgments on the performance of the party holding the white house. and from that study, i developed 13 true-false questions which gauge primarily the strength and performance of the party holding the white house, and i developed

a decision rule. these are truly-false questions where an answer of true always favors white house party. the decision rule is if six or more of these 13 keys are false, the white house party is predicted to lose and right now, the democrats have exactly six keys counted against them. that is historical force number one. jenna: will you change your prediction as we get closer to election day? because as i looked down the list, for example, soaks unrest is number eight. there is no sustained social unrest during the term, that could be true or false. there is great social unrest happens over next several weeks something like that could change your prediction completely regardless what either candidates do? >> great question. i'm looking at fundamentals, social unrest, economy and foreign policy. three things can change. you put your finger on one. another count against the

democrats. but correspondingly, one of the things that counts against the democrats right now that could change is this tremendous surge in voting for gary johnson. that is bad for the party in power. he could fade away. and in addition, i do not give the party in power a major foreign policy triumph. it is possible though that if they succeed in driving isis out of iraq before the election, and depending on how that is sold and how that is received, that could flip that key back in favor of the democrats. this is the most fluid political year frankly in the modern history of the country. and that is why you see this crazy polling. jenna: you say one of the most fascinating times for you that someone looked at so many different elections? >> absolutely right. jenna: professor, great to have you on the program. look to have you back. check in to see what it looks like in the next couple weeks. like to have your assess as things get closer to voting day. great to have you, professor. thank you.

>> great to be on. you know where to find me. jon: of course it all comes down to the individual states. new polls from north carolina show an incredibly close race in that battleground. why our next guest says voter is particularly high this year in north carolina, as the democratic presidential nominee heads there to campaign today. plus fiery exchanges between donald trump and hillary clinton at their very first faceoff, with trump bringing up her email controversy. but did he hit her hard enough on it? fair and balanced debate next. >> you know, i made a mistake using a private email. >> that is for sure.

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♪ >> he also raised issue of your emails. you want to respond to that? >> i do. you know, i made a mistake using a private email. >> that's for sure. >> and if i had to do it over again i would obviously do it differently. but, i'm not going to make any excuses t was a mistake and i take responsibility for that. >> mr. trump? >> that was more than a mistake. that was done purely, okay? that was not a mistake. that was done purely. when you have your your staff taking the fifth amendment, taking the fifth so they're not prosecuted, when you have the man that set up the illegal server taking the fifth, i think it is disgraceful.

and believe me, this country think it is, really think it is disgraceful also. jon: there is donald trump hitting hillary clinton on the email controversy last night. did he go far enough? who scored the best shots against the other candidate? let's get an assessment from guy benson, political editor, townhall.com. fox news contributor. jessica ehrlich, former democratic congressional candidate. >> hi. jon: what do you think, the email question came up? a lot of observers said donald trump had a lot more to work with there that he really didn't use. what is your assessment? >> i agree with that. there were a lot of missed opportunities for donald trump, not just on the emails, the clinton foundation he never raised, benghazi he never raised. her deplorablables comment he never raised. this clip you played was one of the better moments. mrs. clinton, said, oh, well, i'm sorry, it was mistake.

i take responsibility. i won't make excuses. the fact of the matter is it was not a mistake. it was deliberate. she has done nothing but make excuses. almost all of which have been proven to be lies. and the responsibility statement is a sentence. it is meaningless empty words because she has not been accountable whatsoever, and held no one accountable and neither have authorities apparently. so i think there was plenty of opportunities there. even just within that one answer to pound away at the deletions of emails, the multiple lies, that she has told, and he sort of partially whiffed on it. jon: from the democratic perspective, jessica, give us your take on that particular exchange, on the emails. >> certainly we've seen various attacks by trump surrogates over and over again, and even by him at various rallies or in interviews where he was certainly more coherent, more

precise in his attacks and argument. he hit on some of his key points. it goes to the overall performance in this debate. he is out campaigning out with the people which is what he has been doing. the practice it takes to deliver a 90-minuteman know eman mow policy debate and -- 90 minute, mano y mano. we might see is being elsewhere he is involved with actual members of the audience but i don't think anyone including donald trump himself were very pleased with his performance last night. for someone like myself, as, white, college educated woman, i totally missed his message last night. and i heard from trump supporters that, you know that is the point. i'm not his audience. well, i think that is a little bit part of the issue last night.

he needs to reach out to you know, middle class, educated women and to minorities, hispanics and african-americans in particular, to make sure that even though his poll numbers are rising he can crest that wave around get into the white house and certainly last night did not help him get there. jon: some of his supporters and trump himself are saying that lester holt was not exactly fair as moderator last night. listen to what he said on "fox & friends." >> he didn't ask her about the emails at all. he didn't ask her about her scandals. he didn't ask her about the benghazi deal that she destroyed. he didn't ask her about a lot of things she should have been asked about. there is no question about it. >> why do you think that is? >> about her foundation. why? i don't know. i didn't think he did a bad job. jon: all right. quick thought on that, guy. let's start with you. was lester holt in any way tipping the scales? >> i think so.

i think it is sort of a side note to the debate. this was all about the two candidates. holt basically did a good job letting them talk to each other most of the time. but if you look at questions he asked, directed specifically pretty clearly at one of the candidates he came after him harder on the birth certificate stuff, on tax returns, on his statements about the iraq war. his comment about hillary clinton and presidential look. those were all challenging, sort of barbed questions at him. there was nothing like that for hillary clinton. now he could have parried some of those into attacks with a pivot and gone into her, he made the decision not to or did not have the wherewithal to do it. there is some criticism for lester holt is legitimate. jon: computer about to take over. jessica, i owe you last answer next time. appreciate you both being here. jessica ehrlich. guy benson. thank you. jenna: hillary clinton back on the campaign trail holding a rally in north carolina in a few hours. this battleground state has become extremely competitive

last couple weeks, it "real clear politics" polls have trump leading by less than a point. he is at 45-40%. john dynan, professor the politics at university of north carolina. professor, we know the polls only tell so much. what is the feeling in the state? how would you describe it to us on the outside? >> the feeling is it is razor thin as polls are showing. not to be surprised. north carolina has been razor thin last two presidential elections. you can make the argument north carolina has been balanced as 2008, 2012 presidential election. no surprise. jenna: professor watching a single issue that could tip the balance in either direction? >> well both candidates have their issues. donald trump is really playing the trade card. the argument about bad trades deals. you heard that at last night's debate.

emphasizing that in his appearances here. hillary clinton playing up her readiness to be president, her experience, her steady hand. like she played that up in the debate last night at her appearances in north carolina. that has been her main card. jenna: how much do you think the story out of charlotte, north carolina will impact the election? >> well it certainly attracted the full attention of north carolina last week and continues to do so. you see both candidates addressed it in various ways. questions of community police relations come up. donald trump played to that with saying i will be the law and order candidate. that was his way of framing the debate. hillary clinton had somewhat different way of framing the question. no doubt that is front and center for north carolinians front and center going forward. jenna: north carolina hoisted democratic national convention in 2012. barack obama ended up winning the state. interesting to note that the

president joined hillary clinton on their first joint appearance in north carolina. do you see president obama as being a factor for the clinton campaign within your state and perhaps being something that draws democrats out to vote in favor of clinton? >> it is very likely that will be a key factor. hillary clinton's main goal in tort north carolina is to bring up and keep intact the obama coalition. african-american voters, younger voters, university towns. she is trying to do that on her own. poles show she has difficulties in that. more she gets help from president obama who originally held the coalition better she will be. jenna: a fun fact for our viewers, president obama won north carolina, won .03 in 2008. making him first democrat to win north carolina since 1976. some context. professor, thanks for being on the program. >> good to be here. jon: what you call a squeaker.

the donald trump and hillary clinton been in the spotlight for decades. there is much we don't know about them. how their pasts shape them a fascinating documentary gives us a look. we'll talk love to the director next.

>> donald's father was tough and insisted everyone learn the family business. fred was seen as passionate about the business but not warm with his children. life was competition. there were winners and there were losers. jon: how did donald trump and hillary clinton get to be the people they are? that, pardon me a snippet of it, the choice 2016. fascinating documentary about the presidential nominees this

time around. it is something pbs front line has been producing during each presidential election since 1988. but it was a new challenge this year because hillary clinton and donald trump have been media fixtures for decades. the choice 2016 debuts tonight on your pbs station. it is director, michael kirk. he joins us now. michael, how long have you been working on this? >> we started sometime in march, april, when trump finally prevailed in july, we started shooting the trump story but we researched for almost a year. so it was, 50 interviews i did across both of the campaigns and it took is five or six months. jon: i watched some excerpts and it is fascinating to me. you think you know these people because they have been on the public stage for decades, both of them. and you found an awful lot of new information. let's talk about hillary clinton's father. you know, she mentioned him last night.

talked about his time in curtain factory and what a great role model he was but there is more to that story. >> i think he was very tough on, and demanding on hillary. when she would come home from school with as, he would say, must be a terrible school. he was also very hard and dismissive of his, of her mother. her mother had a terrible backstory. she had been, basically rejected by her 16-year-old parents. she kept it a secret from hillary, there is that word, secret, for decades. poured all of her ambition into hillary. realizing that she was under the gun from hillary's dad. it was really a much more intense family background than the one hillary talked about last night. jon: hillary clinton came to public life when she entered politics with her newly-elected governor husband in arkansas in 1979. i want to play for viewers just a smidgen of tonight's documentary.

>> in little lock the new first lady, hillary rodham, was a curiosity. hillary's approach to the new role was seen as unconventional. she kept her maiden name and had her own career, as a corporate lawyer. >> she didn't want women to be accessories to their husband. and that is usually what a political wife is, is an accessory to her husband. and it didn't fit well. jon: so there was a rocky entrance for hillary and bill clinton was defeated after his first two-year term. >> she does write in, takes over his campaign. she becomes, works with dick morris and become as real, you know, morris tells us, a real tough person inside of all of that she does something personal. she losing the thick glasses. gets her hair straightened and dyed. she changes her clothes. most importantly, she changes her name from hillary rodham, to hillary rodham clinton.

it is a way of sort of demonstrating hillary's capacity for means, and end kind of politics which she is very good at. jon: president obama may be a big part of the reason donald trump is running. we'll get into that with you in just a second.

jon: back with award-winning film maker michael kirk, producer of "the choice 2016". two hour dual biography of donald trump and hillary clinton. let's talk about donald trump. much of the motivation you say for this presidential race may have been born on that night in 2011 at the white house correspondents dinner. president obama had just released his long-form birth certificate and really mocked donald trump that night. here is some of what the

president had to say. >> say what you will about mr. trump, he certainly would bring some change to the white house. see what we've got up there. [laughter] >> donald dreads humiliation. he dreads shame. this is why he often attempts to humiliate and shame other people. so in the case of the president ridiculing him, i think this is intolerable for donald trump. jon: was that the spark, michael, that night? >> well the star of "the apprentice," omarosa, she now works for donald trump, she tells us she thinks it was. roger stone, his political guru tells us he believes it was. you know and i know, jon, the idea of humiliation really hits politicians hard, especially new politicians who haven't developed that skin. it if it isn't a revenge move by

donald trump alone, it is certainly a factor in there that has to be considered. jon: you suggest that both of these candidates had very tough fathers? >> very tough fathers and very tough lives along the way. one of the things you will notice when you watch the film tonight, is how dark their stories really are. both of them developing a kind of rough skin. her especially, and that is what the protection is all about. jon: it is going to be fascinating to watch. "the choice 2016". thanks very much for sharing it with us, michael kirk the filmmaker. >> thank you, jon. jon: we'll be right back. did you read every word? no, only lawyers do that. so when you got rear-ended and needed a tow, did it say "great news. you're covered!" on page five? no. it said, "blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah..." the liberty mutual app with coverage compass™ makes it easy to know what you're covered for

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john: a lot more happening now next hour. outnumbered starts right now. [music] harris: the first presidential battle is part of american history and it got tough fast last night in new york.

candidates went after each other on everything from the economy to fighting the islamic state savages to race in america and it got personal at times as well. this is outnumbered i'm harris hypocrisy -- faulkner. i'm so excited. #one lucky guy. fox news political anchor and anchor of special report and what we saw last night bret. >> i think we are going to talk about entertainment news. >> no. [laughter] >> they gave me the wrong packet . >> he knows, right, debate. >> gop n