idence. go long™. ♪ jon: heather and i will be back in an hour. "outnumbered" starts right now. ♪ ♪ sandra: all right. it is friday, everyone. this is "outnumbered." i'm sandra smith, and here today is co-host of "after the bell" on fox business, melissa francis. also, dagen mcdowell is here. democratic strategist julie roginsky, and today's #oneluckyguy, veteran of three tours of duty in afghanistan, ben collins, joins us. sir, you are outnumbered. good to have you. >> thank you. i'm glad to be back. sandra: so much going on these days. >> yeah. it's hard to keep up with the news. >> it's the brunettes versus the blonds, and we have you outnumbered. [laughter]

sandra: on that note, it's on. [laughter] and we are just 39 days until election day, can you believe it? donald trump is ramping up his attacks against bill and hillary clinton. watch what the republican nominee told a crowd in new hampshire. >> the american people have had it with years and decades of clinton corruption and scandals and impeachment for lying. impeachment for lying, remember that? the clintons have a sordid past. we will be the very bright and clean future. sandra: trump, of course, referencing bill clinton's impeachment which was stemmed from his affair with a white house intern, monica lewinsky. this after a campaign memo circulated on wednesday urging associates to mention lewinsky and other women the former president reportedly had affairs with while suggesting hillary was complicit in smear campaigns against his accusers. some of trump's allies have said it's not the best strategy for

him, but plenty of his surrogates are going there. >> if you look at her being an enabler really in the '90s and really attacking these women, it goes against everything that she now tries to spout be as a candidate for president. she'll say and do anything. those are barack obama's words, not mine, she'll say and do anything to become president of the united states. >> i find it so interesting that there continues to be this conversation about what he has said when you look at what she has done. gennifer flowers, paula jones, monica lewinsky, my goodness. >> she didn't just stand by him, she attacked monica lewinsky. and after being married to bill clinton for 20 years if you didn't know the moment monica lewinsky said that bill clinton violated her she was telling the truth, then you're too stupid to be president. sandra: hillary clinton brushing off those attacks saying trump can run his campaign however he wants and, of course, ben, that is the case. but what do you make of this, of

donald trump dredging up these past marital infidelities of hillary clinton's husband? as a strategy? >> so i think donald trump has a choice right now, and he can either win the argument, or he can win the presidency. and the fact is in every poll that we've seen, the biggest concern for donald trump has been is he qualified and does he have the temperament. and i think that there's a very easy path for him. look, the reality is that it comes down to math to win these elections, right? 270 electoral votes. he's got the voters that got him through the primary, but he should be talking about this, dredging up this stuff and going on the attack. in my opinion, he should be talking to, you know, those undecideds if there are any, you know, those suburban moms that the clintons first identified in florida, ohio, pennsylvania, colorado. he needs to be targeting a very specific audience, and i think this just kind of clouds his message. sandra: and newt gingrich sort of shares the same opinion, he's saying let's focus on the important things here, dagen. he says it's totally wrong direction for trump to go in.

he said he should not let them bait him into a swamp where they can revel in the mud. dagen: right. i think anything is fair game but going after bill clinton's infidelities is stone cold stupidity. make her look like a victim and watch her win, because it worked to her advantage. julie had talked about this before. if you look back in the '90s, bill clinton used to have much more higher favorability ratings than hillary did. go back to 1996. but by early 1999, after the star report, after the monica lewinsky scandal, hillary clinton's favorability, according to gallup, was 11 percentage points higher than bill clinton's. and by her standing back, that's to her way of playing the victim, and it will work for her. sandra: all right. will that happen this time, julie, if he continues on this path? >> that's what she should do, that's what she will do. dagen's absolutely right. , and listen, newt gipg be rich knows from experience -- sandra: a trump supporter. >> we remember, he tried this in

'94. excuse me, '97 or '98. they tried to impeach bill clinton. they impeached him, what happened? they lost the house, gingrich lost his speakership over it. he backfired. so gingrich knows. rudy giuliani announced in a press conference that he was leaving his wife for another woman, with all due respect. this was at a press conference where his wife first found out that he was leaving her. i don't think people like rudy giuliani are in any position to be able to lecture anybody on moral authority. frankly, neither is donald trump. that's fine, they will be turning off white, college-educated women that they need to win. this will subtract, not add to his coalition. sandra: and it's confusing, and we spoke with eric trump, and he was saying it took a lot of courage for my father not to bring up those infidelities in the debate, but days after -- dagen: serving your country or going to afghanistan or iraq, just to -- sandra: yeah. julie: donald trump is not

courageous. melissa: the point he's trying to make is bringing back the idea that when the clintons were in office, it was one scandal after another after another, and it was exhausting just to live through never talking about anything of substance. there was always a cloud of corruption and scandal. that's the point he's trying to make, that that we don't want to go back to that, but it's not working for him. >> i honestly think there's something that's there, but don't put the target, don't put the blame on hillary for bill's actions. if you want to talk about this, you know, the way hillary treated a lot of those women was horrendous, and she did it publicly, and it was vicious. you talk about that, but don't blame her for -- [inaudible conversations] sandra: kelly ann conway says she's not advising trump, but she did defend the strategy saying it's fair game to think about how hillary clinton treated those women after the fact. all that being said, you have to look at this poll. people were asked has the presidential campaign brought out the best or the worst -- [laughter]

in people. as we continue this discussion, just 4% say it's brought out the best. 70%, dagen, say it's brought out the worst in people. 20% neither, 5% both. dagen: and i don't think that that we're even there yet. [laughter] melissa: isn't that amazing? dagen: we have how many days -- sandra: 40 days, baby, of this stuff. dagen: until we have to go. in terms of what would work, i think you can look back at bill clinton's presidency and how the pair of them conducted themselves -- sandra: right. dagen: -- while in office. but you don't need to wade into the morass with them. and, again, if a lot of what she said was on the record and you had sound bites, hey, have at it, go cut an ad. but that's not what it is. you get into the situation where you have the candidate or the surrogate explaining to the american people what was said back in the '90s, and most people don't remember it. julie: i'm sorry, but these surrogates, first of all, are flawed themselves. melissa: yeah, that's true. julie: secondly, and i have to

go back to this, what woman out there wants anybody to to judge her marriage? nobody. and women and especially white, college-educated women are people that donald trump is bleeding, and those are women that he needs to get in order to win. and there are no women out there, unless they're complete partisans, who think it's fair game for anybody from outside of marriage to criticize a woman for staying with her husband for whatever reason she chose to -- melissa: you go back to talk about bringing the scanned -- scandal of the time, they rented out the lincoln bedroom. just look at the money grab. the money instead of the scandals, i mean, the pay-for-play within the clinton foundation, if you look at the way they have sold government and monetized access over time. dagen: drive us down the road from the clinton foundation, it's the same behavior. melissa: right, it is. dagen: they need to show us that thread through their entire public life. >> if you're going to go back to the clinton administration, we can talk about the fact that bill clinton had the chance to

kill bin laden three times, passed. the chance where they failed in rwanda, and there were 800,000 people killed in a genocide. i mean, there's some real issues that are there if we really want to go back and s.t.a.r.t. -- start poking holes in the administration. this thing is a land mine. sandra: bottom line, distraction from the real issues. dagen: win over women by talking about the economy and incomes and the safety of our households, both financially and in terms of national security. sandra: and what about millennials? everybody's trying to reach out for that vote, julie. is this a good strategy -- julie: no. do you think millennial voters care about what happened in 1996 and who bill clinton was having an affair with back in the 1980s? >> before tinder. julie: right. [laughter] so that's the difficulty. and, i mean, it's politically so nonsensical, it's like that

seinfeld episode, i'm offended as a political operate toive, this is not to how you do it. sandra: all right. well, another paris in this unpredictable -- another first in this unpredictable election. now a newspaper with the largest distribution in the cup breaking its decades-long tradition of not taking sides and calling donald trump unfit to be president in a blistering attack. is this more mainstream media bias? plus, what investigators are learning about the final moments before a commuter train crash that left a young mother dead and over 100 others injured. >> it was just initially just a horrendous, hour oren douse -- horrendous exploding noise. concrete dust, electrical wires and the train flying into the depot. just kind of couldn't believe what i was seeing. your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. indeed. it's good to be in, good hands.

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sandra: new leads in the search for answers, investigators finding one of those black boxes from the commuter train that crashed into a busy station in new jersey yesterday during rush hour. a young mother was killed, more than 100 other passengers were injured. david lee miller is live in hoboken right now with the latest coming from there as that black box has now been found. david lee? >> reporter: that's right, sandra. but authorities are still trying to figure out exactly how fast

this train was traveling when the fatal crash occurred. passengers, as well as those in the station have all said it was moving at an excessive speed, far beyond, apparently, the 12 mile or the 10 mile-per-hour limit for this particular station. investigators, as you mentioned, now have in their possession a data recorder that was recovered from the locomotive, and this could contain crucial information not only just about speed, but about braking as well. another recorder located in the first car is still out of reach because the collapsed ceiling makes access extremely dangerous. >> the destruction, if you can imagine, was just terrible. i came up as close as i could to the train, within safe measures. so i was very close. we could see all the destruction. i mean, there are wires, it's very, you know, it's devastation. so that's why we are concerned about the safety of our investigators.

>> reporter: also as part of their investigation, authorities hope to examine video that was recorded by cameras not only on the train, but recorded at the station as well. and another source of information, the engineer, thomas gallagher. investigators hope to speak with him later today, they say they have already obtained samples of his blood and urine for their ongoing investigation. but, sandra, there are not going to be any quick answers here. the ntsb says it's going to remain on the ground for the next 7-10 days, but as for a full report about the cause of this crash, they say that's going to take about a year. sandra: david lee miller, thank you. melissa: "usa today" breaking a 34-year-long tradition of not taking sides and now urging readers to vote for anyone but donald trump. the editorial board writing, quote: because every presidential race is different, we revisit our non-endorsement

policy every four years. we've never seen a reason to alter our approach until now. this year one of the candidates, republican nominee donald trump, is by unanimous consensus of the editorial board unfit for the presidency. the paper didn't go so far as to enforce hillary clinton though, but listed reasons they believe trump shouldn't be elected. among them they call him erratic, ill-equipped to be commander in chief, they say that he speaks recklessly and is a serial liar. but trump firing back on twitter saying, quote: the people are really smart and canceling subscriptions to the dallas and arizona papers, and now "usa today" will lose readers. the people get it. interesting turn of events here. it is, i mean, there's, there's not a lot of logic, i'll start with you, sandra. [laughter] the idea of they're going to sit there and tell people, basically, you deplorable and you're an idiot if you vote for donald trump.

vote for anyone, don't vote for him. they're calling readers who have voted for him idiots. seems like a bad strategy. sandra: i'm with you. isn't this, in the end, an endorsement of donald trump in and of itself, right? [laughter] because if you're not going to endorse hillary clinton but you're just going to say vote against trump, you obviously are saying hillary clinton is so bad that all you can say is don't vote for this one. i don't know, it could have a reverse effect. julie: i think you guys are grasping at straws a little. "usa today" always has an opinion, they try to give two sides. i guess donald trump is so is so offensive to them that they're saying write in for gary johnson, jill stein, hillary clinton, write in mickey mouse -- melissa: they can't endorse hillary clinton because theyhavt her lack of candor k her extreme carelessness in handling classified information. whatever you do, however, resist the siren song of a dangerous demagogue.

if that isn't intellectual elitism, i don't know what it is, dagen, and make the point -- that sentence, to write that? however, resist the siren song of the dangerous demagogue -- julie: it's what an editorial board does. by the way, donald trump has only gotten an endorsement from one media outlet, and that's the "national enquirer." dagen: and in this election, this endorsement or anti-endorsement -- [laughter] melissa: un-endorsement. dagen: means zero, nada, zilch, nothing. in fact, if you go through those bullet points, ill-equipped to be commander in chief, career is checkered, speaks recklessly, isn't leveling with the american people, serial liar, that's hillary clinton. sandra: that's hillary clinton. dagen: how about lying to the families of those killed in benghazi to their face about why it happened? how about setting up a server to circumvent what you owe to the american people in terms of making information public to them, lying over and over again about why you did it, being

investigated by the fbi. we can go on. melissa: julie, you look at what has happened here, and in many ways this is yet another thing in the campaign that gets everybody more entrenched in their own views. to you, this makes perfect sense, and you totally agree with it -- sandra: do you? julie: i do. i do. but what i think is more startling is we're breaking new ground here in ways we've never done before, not just this newspaper, but the arizona republic, a newspaper in detroit that has never supported a democrat before, all of them coming out against trump -- you may be right, it may not matter, but there is a sense that he's such a unique candidate. this isn't a mitt romney, this isn't a george bush. this is somebody -- or a hillary clinton, for that matter. he's such a unique candidate who poses such a grave danger in their view -- melissa: to the establishment. julie: not the establishment because that was not the establishment. they always supported republicans. melissa: republicans are the

establishment. he threatens the system the way it is, and that's what his popularity is. >> to me, it almost resembled, i kept thinking, trying to make an analogy, and it's like obama's plan against terrorism, and it's completely uncommitted and incomplete. if you care that much that you're going to break this tradition, don't vote for this guy, but vote for anybody else, even maybe a third party candidate which, essentially, if you're going to vote for a third party candidate, you're essentially going to be voting for trump in this case. but end it. you know, it's like they only went half way. they sid don't vote for this guy, but they didn't have the courage to say vote for this person, and i just think that's spineless. melissa: interesting. all right, the united states is ramping up its fight against isis as president obama explains why he still won't say radical islamic terrorism. does he need to name our enemy, or are we doing enough to defeat them? plus, donald trump refusing to back down from his criticism of a former miss universe. why he says hillary clinton was

duped by her and whether this is a good strategy for him. ♪ ♪ terrible at golf for as long as i can. new patented ensure enlive has hmb plus 20 grams of protein to help rebuild muscle. for the strength and energy to do what you love. new ensure enlive. always be you.

♪ ♪ sandra: well, the u.s. is ramping up its fight against isis. fox news has learned american troops have taken out 18 of the group's leaders in just the past month. this as the pentagon announced earlier this week that more than 600 u.s. troops are headed to iraq to help take back mosul, iraq's second largest city. many of the troops are intelligence personnel who will gather information isis is expected to leave behind. meantime, president obama still facing criticism for refusing to say the term "radical islam." when confronted by a gold star mom, he basically said it's a phony issue and it unfairly tarnishes the vast majority of muslims who are peaceful. >> the truth of the matter is that this is an issue that has

been sort of manufactured. what i have been careful about when i describe these issues is to make sure that we do not lump these murderers into the billion muslims that exist around the world including in this country who are peaceful, who are responsible. sandra: how -- ben, what is your initial response to hearing the president's explanation of why he won't say those words? >> if you can't name an enemy, you're never going to understand the enemy, and if you don't understand the enemy, you're never going to defeat the enemy. and the reality is we have literally had confusion from the white house to the pentagon to the battlefield for the last ten years and even more so during the obama administration. and, i mean, this is a guy that's sending thousands -- so, yes, we just sent 600, but there are upwards of 5,000 american soldiers that are in iraq right

now preparing for this battle for mosul, 5,000. and we've got 10,000 soldiers in afghanistan. and he still refuses to call it combat, and they say, well, they're not going to be on the front lines as if this is still world war ii and there are front lines. the fact is our guys are over there, they have been guying, and this is going to be a very dangerous battle that our guys are going to be at risk, and if he can't even use these words, "islamic terrorism" or "combat," to me, it breaks my heart, and i think -- sandra: that makes me think about military morale. melissa: it does. can i ask you, every military person says the exact same thing, that if you can't define your enemy, you can't beat them. what does that mean? you have to understand the psychology of why they hate you so much? what is it about naming and defining the enemy that allows you to beat them from a military perspective? >> i don't want to get too wonky, but just take mosul. mosul a sunni stronghold, you know? so mosul's a sunni stronghold,

but part of the force that's going to be taking this are going to be shia militia, shia muslims that are funded and driven by iran. so the complexities are there. then you have the kurds that are partaking in this. you really have to understand the history, the culture, just to understand the mindset of these individuals. dagen: also in part, radical islamic terrorism because this is not a geographic threat. >> no. dagen: this is an ideological and religious threat. and by not naming it, you don't acknowledge that, you don't recognize it, and you don't fight it. sandra: properly. dagen: do we fault fdr for saying japan or japanese, what, 15 times in about a 500-word declaration of war after pearl harbor? no. was it the entire japanese people? no. but did he use that word? absolutely. julie: you also raise an excellent point, and i've been saying this for a long time, nobody -- and i include this administration in this criticism -- has ever really leveled with the american

people, not barack obama, not hillary clinton, not donald trump, nobody what wants to be our leader or is currently our leader has said this is what it's really going to take. it's not putting a couple of hundred or a couple of thousand soldiers on the back lines or however they want to phrase it, it's actually sitting here and having a generational, potentially a multigenerational effort to defeat this threat and this enemy, and it includes boots on the ground, it includes intelligence, it includes all sorts of -- >> i agree. and a lot of this is on congress, and congress has failed to do its job. and there's one guy -- congressman ryan zinke, he's a former or seal. he introduced legislation that was called a comprehensive strategy to defeat isil saying, look, the white house and the do to d have to put together a plan, because we're still operating on this authorized use of military force going a all the way back to 2001. what does winning mean?

this battle for mosul's going to be tough, but what's going to happen the day after, you know? julie: you nailed it. nobody ever talks about what winning entails on any level. dagen: people are mad because the president has downplayed the threat from day one. he said the islamic state was contained a day before 130 people were slaughtered in paris. we've heard it time and again. sandra: so good to get the insights of a former army green beret officer on the couch, ben, thank you. and you can hear more insights from ben, he sat down with harris faulkner. that interview will air this sunday on fox report, that's at 7 p.m. eastern time right here on fnc. dagen: donald trump is not backing down from his criticism of former miss universe alicia machado. she's been in the spotlight since she was mentioned in monday night's event noting trump called her miss piggy after she gained weight. overnight the republican nominee

tweeting: wow, crooked hillary was duped and used by my worst miss u. hillary floated her as an angel without checking her past, which is terrible. then, did crooked hillary check out alicia m. become a u.s. citizen so she could use her in the debate? this amid reports that machado was once accused of threatening to kill a venezuelan judge after he indicted her then-boyfriend for attempted murder. meantime, clinton reacted on twitter calling trump's tweets unhinged. her communications director, jennifer palmieri, weighing in a short time ago. listen to this. >> the resolution for the issue for him is simple, he should stop attacking her and apologize. and i think that's the, that's the point of her tweets. but he, you know, he insulted her in, you know, realtime as miss universe, he did it last

night, he did it two days ago, and, you know, so she's going to -- hillary's going to stand up and defend her. dagen: melissa, the clinton campaign does not want him to stop talking about -- [laughter] melissa: i know! dagen: -- miss universe. this is exactly what they want. dr. ben carson was on "mornings with maria" today, and to paraphrase, what he said, don't go down the rat hole. and i said to him, well, he went down the rat hole in the middle of the night. melissa: yeah. like, i'm picturing the scene. what if he's, like, sleeping, and he gets up and realizes he's still really angry about this situation, so he jumps out of bed and is tweeting away. someone take the twitter away from him, please. just take the phone away. i mean, don't have the conversation. meanwhile, you're exactly right. i love how disinagain wows politics -- disingenuous politics are. leave her alone, no, they want

her to keep doing it. dagen: the sex tape he's referring to isn't a sex tape, just to clarify this. she appeared on more than a decade ago a spark reality tv show and allegedly had is sex with one of the contestants, and i step back and think i cannot believe for the love of god that we're talking about this as part of our presidential election. julie: i mean, you have a first in american politics where a presidential candidate of a major party's urging the voters to check out a sex tape. it's unbelievable. and you're absolutely right, melissa, of course they don't want her -- hillary's people don't want him to stop talking about it. but what's concerning to me is how easily he took the bait. she laid a trap for him that any of us could have seen from 500 miles away. he took it and then he continued to run with it day after day after day up to and including -- sandra: and hour after hour. [laughter] julie: they're loving this. the democrats are sitting back and loving this. melissa: totally. dagen: here's what trump supporters will tell you, and

they say it on twitter, and i will repeat it here -- sandra: he has the right to defend himself. dagen: amen, girlfriend. you're just a member of the drive-by media, and you don't get it. melissa: there are a whole bunch of people -- [inaudible conversations] sandra: i want to defer my time to ben on this because it's so hard coming off the conversation -- dagen: ben's like -- [laughter] saw zahn ann that we are sitting here having this discussion when there are such huge, much more important issues to be discussing. >> there are. and it's funny you mentioned the word drive-by, because if i was going to bring anything up, i would have said this was a woman that had been accused of being an accomplice in a drive-by shooting years ago. sandra: right. >> but what i'd say is to your point, maybe a better tweet could have been, well, yes, i may or may not have said this in 1996, but hillary in 1996, that's when she coined the phrase super predators. that's when she got off and told everybody that she landed in bosnia under sniper fire.

we've all said some stupid things. i've probably said something really stupid not too long ago. but fact is, there's a way to combat this without just going after her because, you're right, the hillary camp loves to watch -- dagen: but what's worrisome is he's fixated on it. melissa: yeah. dagen: if you're a supporter, even not a supporter, a conservative who's trying to decide whether you're going to vote for him, he's fixated on it because he's up in the middle of the night tweeting about it. let it go. who cares? sandra: you wonder how much of this is driven by the fact that he ran his primary campaign in this matter, and he plowed down 16 other candidates. and he says i'm just going to continue to be myself and run that same strategy which, julie, as you have said many times, you can't employ the same strategy now that he did then. you have got to change. julie: i go back to what he's lacking in ways that other presidential candidates on the republican side have not lacked, and that is married women, right? white, married women. if you're a woman and you have your candidate calling somebody miss piggy, miss housekeeping,

being -- completely maligning he it consistently, why he criticized her for gaining weight, women who have not made up their minds or even women normally voting republican don't like that because they don't like to be criticized for their weight -- sandra: and women are saying, i've got work to do, i've got a family to feed, and i care about the economy and getting the country back on track. dagen: here's what i was doing in the middle of the night as i was coming to work, i made this emoji face. [laughter] really? we've got to move on. pressure is building on donald trump ten days before he faces off with hillary clinton in their second presidential debate. critics say trump was not prepared enough for the first one. now the son of the president known as the great communicator, ronald reagan, has some blunt advice for mr. trump. ♪ ♪

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melissa: hillary clinton taking a dig at donald trump yesterday, big surprise, ahead of their next debate. that is a week from sunday, by the way. clinton making light of what critics are calling trump's lack of preparation for the first debate. watch. >> i think after what we saw monday night, we'll have two more debates to be able to contrast and compare. i, i have no idea what he's going to say the next time. [laughter] but, you know, i will spend some time preparing for it. [laughter] [applause] melissa: trump's advisers reportedly pushing him ahead of the next showdown, but there is no indication that he plans to participate in mock debates now. the son of president ronald reagan not mincing words in saying what he thinks trump should do. michael reagan writing, quote: my father recovered from his first debate against mondale in 1984.

obama did the same against romney in 2012. trump can do the same thing. but like my mother always said to me, michael, you'll never learn anything with your mouth open. it's time for donald trump to shut up and start listening. be see, i think that's really prophetic, because i'm not totally convinced that it's about practice necessarily. sandra: ooh, i am. [laughter] melissa: okay. it's about listening to the people around you and their advice as opposed to always thinking that you know best. what do you think? >> well, so we have a saying in the army, and it was sweat more in training and bleed less in battle. melissa: ooh. i like that. >> and the point of that is, you know, one of the biggest things that trump gets hit on all the time is qualifications, right? is he qualified. melissa: yeah. >> so there's not -- he doesn't have to have, you know, the 40 years of service that hillary does, but show some competency on these issues. and the fact is, you know, i live in colorado, and i spend a lot of time going through rural colorado, and we're talking about ranchers and cattle and, you know, farmers or.

melissa: right. >> and the fact is you look at the poverty rates out there, these people are hurting. they are hurting. melissa: yeah. >> and they need real solutions, real answers. so speak to that, you know? and it doesn't take a lot to start really understanding the issues that you can show competency on foreign policy, economic, you know? that, to me, i think if you just do a little bit of research d he doesn't have to meet the bar that somebody who has been senator, secretary of state, first lady, just get to the war to show us -- get to the bar to show us. melissa: it's not practice alone, you have to absorb the criticism and change. you've got to practice like you play as opposed -- what do you think? dagen: it's the strategy of debate. melissa: yeah. dagen: when asked about something you don't want to talk about, what do you do? you button it. you slam the brakes on the car, you take the wheel, and you turn it in the direction that you want to go. it's just strategy -- melissa: that's fine, but -- dagen: he could have done it over and over and over again --

sandra: but he needed help with actually making some of his arguments. in and of itself, he needs improvement on the formation of an argument and making a conclusion to a point. i'm with newt gingrich who is saying get some professional debaters, get some professional coaches and get some advice are on how to form an argument. julie: as somebody who's a coach in preparing politicians for debate, there's two ways to do it. he and his friends, all like-minded, sat around allegedly preparing for his debates and threw out some ideas and, apparently, isn't hillary clinton awful, why don't we hit her on this, yeah, that's a good idea. that's fine if you're preparing for junior high school debate club. the way it's done in real life is you do drills, you do mock debates, you find somebody who is as close to your opponent as possible to simulate it. you have somebody who's moderate aring who's as close to lester holt or whoever the moderators are going to be, or chris wallace and others to moderate it, and you sit down and prepare for the worst, and as dagen

pointed out, figure out how to pivot -- melissa: i don't mean to interrupt you, but i don't want to -- julie: town hall, a bunch of people that are going to throw the toughest questions at you, look you in the eye and say you called alicia machado, whatever her name is, miss piggy. how do you respond to that? you've said x about rosie to donnell, x about other people, respond to that, and you do it honestly. you don't have a bunch of sycophants doing it. i don't know who this his world is able to have that discussion with him without him getting bent out of shape -- talking dagen: i don't know if i should say this, but it's classic male versus female where he ran out of energy after about ten minutes and she's hitting her stride after about an hour. melissa: oh, my goodness. [laughter] dagen: we all thought that. [laughter] melissa: overriding -- you want to follow that? is that what you want to do? [laughter]

we'll come right back. after overriding president obama's veto of the so-called 9/11 bill, lawmakers are now considering tightening it. the concerns about unintended consequences and whether president obama did enough to warn congress about them. warn congress about them. ♪ ♪ allergy relief. most allergy pills only control one inflammatory substance. flonase controls 6. and six is greater than one. flonase changes everything. ♪ ...to cook healthy meals... yet up to 90% fall short in getting key nutrients from food alone. let's do more... ...add one a day men's 50+. complete with key nutrients we may need. plus it helps support healthy blood pressure with vitamin d and magnesium.

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sandra: one day after congress voted overwhelmingly to override pram -- president obama's veto of the 9/11 bill, they're now looking to tighten it. the law would allow the families of 9/11 victims to sue saudi arabia for the attacks. the plaintiffs believe saudi intelligence helped the attackers gain entry into the united states. the kingdom denies any role in the attacks and said in a statement after the vote: it is our hope that wisdom will prevail and that congress will take the necessary steps to correct this legislation in order to avoid the serious, unintended consequences that may ensue. now some lawmakers are worried the bill could spark retaliation that may put americans abroad in danger. so they're looking to narrow it so that it would allow only 9/11 families to sue saudi arabia. meantime, republicans are saying president obama should have done more to warn them against the legislation.

white house spokesman josh earnest. >> leader mcconnell said that the 9/11 bill may have unintended ramifications -- >> huh. >> -- lawmakers will have to discuss fixes. >> well -- >> the white house was too slow to warn about potential consequences. >> you had letters from the director of the cia, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the secretary of defense and the commander in chief all warping about the potential impact -- warning about the potential impact. so it's hard to take at face value somehow they were unaware of the consequences of their vote. sandra: ben, what do you make of all of it? >> well, i do have to say, i mean, congress, it's your job to write the legislation, right? you've got one job, write the laws. so this almost, you know, now it reminds me of the whole we have to pass the bill to figure out what's inside of it. this is a very hard topic. i lost one of my best friends from high school on 9/11, so i certainly understand that emotional, you know, context that's here. look, the reality is saudi arabia's a partner with us right

now. today they are a partner against terrorism because it's in their best interests because of isis and al-qaeda. but you cannot escape the fact that saudi arabia has been the single largest provider of funds to that wahhabi and salafi jihadist movement that is the becauseline ideology for al-qaeda and eye -- baseline ideology for al-qaeda and isis. i do think they need to fix this because there are american soldiers that are abroad, and something like this could open them up to lawsuits. but i do think the families should have their day in court, but let's not pretend that saudi arabia's our friend, because that's absurd. dagen: "the wall street journal" actually said supporters of the bill actually rejected any compromise including language that would limit this, the lawsuits to just the 9/11 victims. and the journal editorial page says the real game is to enrich the trial bar, because now all it takes is subpoenaing documents by lawyers and testimony from u.s. and foreign governments, and it's going to

complicate our diplomacy and our security. julie: these are the biggest bunch of dummies i have ever seen in my life. they're blaming other people, as you pointed out, ben, for their own misgivings and misinterpretation of what could happen. somebody pointed out to them, after this legislation passed -- and, by the way, i do agree these people deserve their day in court -- but specifically on the subject of whether this should be law or not, somebody pointed out that you, mitch mcconnell or congressman x or senator y, are going to be sued individually for actions taken by the government. oh, heavens to betsy. do your job, congress. by the way, what should have happened is we should have demanded that the government release those redacted pages of the 9/11 report about what saudi arabia's role was, find out exactly what it was and then made an informed decision -- melissa: i think they're just trying to have their cake and eat it too. they can go ahead of time and say they voted for it and afterward say they had misgivings.

julie: of course. melissa: i don't believe they didn't read it and didn't understand until afterwards. i think they knew all along everything that was going on. chuck schumer, you know, you have the portion of the bill in there where the justice department come out and put a hold on whatever lawsuits are there if they negotiating with the saudi government, so there is a clause to stop any lawsuit from going forward. i think from start to finish the whole thing is completely disingenuous. >> and this isn't as simple as just the government of saudi arabia. i mean, it is complex. i mean, you have the organizational structure, but you have the royal family -- melissa: which is enormous. >> exactly. and there have been members, the bin laden family, they came from saudi arabia. so they're going to find these non-state actors as they'll say that have been moving funds. but i agree, i think they should have let those documents out -- julie: and make an informed decision. there's a reason why we don't want to subject ourselves to the hague, the international court.

we're begging for other foreign governments to pass legislation that will hold specific members of our government accountable. dagen: by the way, that's why they made those ransom payments to iran, to basically settle that suit that was at the hague. sandra: more "outnumbered" in just a moment. i've never been #1 in anything until i put these babies on. now we're on a winning streak and i'm never taking them off. do i know where i'm going? absolutely. we're going to the playoffs. allstate guarantees your rates won't go up just because of an accident. starting the day you sign up. so get accident forgiveness from allstate. and be better protected from mayhem, like me. it's good to be in, good hands.

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sandra: many thanks to our hashtag one #oneluckyguy, ben collins, fun to have you here. >> thank you. this was fun. dagen: i made you uncomfortable. [laughter]

>> no, not at all. sandra: oh, he's good. happy friday, everybody. we're back on tv monday at noon eastern. glad you joined us today. "happening now" starts right now. laws. >> the same group paying bill and hillary were lobbying the federal g. >> donald trump is hit with questions of his own. a new report takes the dim vow of the practices of the trump foundation. >> plus. the train was there and the ceiling is collapsed on top of the portion of the train and you can see the wiring. and water pipe and things