argument? >> most people can outperform it. this is what i have been doing for 30 years and i'm pretty good at it. >> oh, no you didn't. >> i want to thank you all very, very much. >> right now, david asmon, your place for business. president-elect, trump revealing how he wants to make america great again, from repealing and replacing obama care, to rebuilding our infrastructure. welcome to forbes on fox, good to see you again. first up, mr. trump's free market plan to drive up health care costs, drive up competition by letting health insurers drive across state lines. >> if you wanted better care for lower prices, you move towards a free market and we see all the time, free markets turn scarcity into abundance. health care is no difference. >> why not allow people to buy across state lines?

>> because it does not fly in the face of what could have happened and that is getting your insurance across state lines. >> so would this free market solution work? let's go in focus and find out what steve forbes, elizabeth mcdonald, and bill baldwin, well see we heard you there recommending it, is it going to work this time? >> competition always works, the state lines now are cartels, so nationwide shopping not only would shake up the industry, but also invite new players to come in this area as well. so you get more competition, more innovation, more productivity, it should have been done years ago, i live in new jersey, i could get before obama care, a perfectly good policy in pennsylvania, half the price i could in new jersey because of the crazy regulations, i could by a car in pennsylvania, kou

pennsylvania, couldn't buy insurance. >> look at how they have been going up 44%, average premium hike. >> there's already a few state where is you can do this now and guess how many insurance companies have participated in selling across state lines. zero. and the reason is because insurance companies need doctor networks, nowhere these premiums and costs are going up are in rural areas. the insurance companies, this free market approach of selling across state lines, you can go ahead and do it. but they still have to build out the doctor networks and pay the doctors a and the hospitals and you're relying on the insurance companies to do it and they're not going to do it. no wonder marco rubio when asking about trump's small hands, he even thought it was a bad idea. >> they're going to catch on to this. >> there's a reason why obama care exploded on the launch pad, it's because they basically cooked up these ideas behind the scenes after the third bottle of

wine, they said this sounds good, government all the time instead of looking what the market was doing. and that is watch what small businesses and companies are already doing. their own ecmployer pools where they were buying across state lines. it does work in the real world if you just let us try it. >> i don't want a solution from the trump administration, the best thing they could go is yes, repeal obama care and say yes, we have no answer. the realty is behave cell phones, we get computers, we get -- why once again is health care different? it's bad precisely because government's involved, no solutions is the best solution. >> but rich, there are some free market solutions, allowing ini insurers to sill across state lines, give individuals rights that now the government takes away from them.

>> i think health savings accounts are absolutely essential. and because we're spending twice as much per capita on health care, as the typical european country, we're not getting better outcomes. we have more type ii diabetes, we have more people on antidepressants and that's because people can let themselves go knowing someone else is going to pay for it. i think when people see that it's their money they're spending, people are going to take better care of themselves and we're going to drive down health care costs. >> we want to get the government out of the driver's seat and put the consumer in charge. >> i don't think the government will ever be out of the driver's seat because of the preexisting condition problem. but what's wrong with having a little bit more competition between the states, let new york for example mandate coverage of overpriced contraceptives and go to florida or ohio if they can

get a better deal. >> donald trump says he wants to keep the pre-exiexisting condit, they want to allow you to keep your kids on your insurance plan until they're 26 years old. >> keeping the 26-year-olds in, that's a politically popular, you've got to pick your fights on these things, but moving ahead on nationwide shopping, how about getting rid of needs in particular states. you don't need a certificate of need if you're a starbucks, and you want to set up a shop near du dunkin' doughnuts. >> you know that obama care was passed with zero republican support, zero republican support, to it wasn't bipartisan, but i think there are a lot of democrats that are concerned. their constituents know that

costs are going way up. >> i don't think he's going to be able to repeal it and keep people on the exchanges and or with medicaid off of the insurance. one of the keys here is, which is this is an old republican idea, is personal responsibility. the penalty right now for signing up, $695, that is barely a cell phone bill for young people. any of these proposals, if you're going to keep preexisting conditions in there, you have to get people to buy the plan and sign up. >> one thing, nobody's going to get kicked off who has it now. medicaid has taken in a lot of these people. and one of the ideas donald trump has is to block grant medicaid and what that means is that instead of the federal government deciding where every dollar goes, you give a block of money to the states and they decide how to spend it. >> 9 million people were signed up on obama care on medicaid. i think the block grant idea is a good one. by the way, the taxpayers are

foot agent of obama care cost. bill clinton said that taxpayer backed mortgages won't cost anyone a cent. and obama said obama care wouldn't cost anybody a cent, where it did. >> john, one of the biggest problems with obama care, we all know, we all warned, one size does not fit all, we're a country of well over 300 million. block granting, that is giving states the power over the federal government, how to spend medicaid is at least one way of getting away from that one size fits all, right? >> certainly you don't want a federal solution for what is a local question. but i even don't like block grants, the realty is that if you get government out of the way of this, you have all sorts of insurers coming in, offering all sorts of different health care plans, the problem is mandate, you don't need to m

mandate cars, computers. >> john is a pure libertarian and we love it, it may not be practical, but it's awfully appealing, is it not. >> yes, it is awfully appealing. and the real benefit of doing all of this is if we go to a free market system. it's chronic conditions brought on by bad behavior is the cast that ee's blowing our health ca costs through the roof. >> that's the key, getting as little distance between the provider of health care, between the nurse or the doctor and the -- all these things in the middle, all these middle men, whether it's the government insurers, cut out the middleman, right. >> the answer is, yes, but you have to do it step by step, or you're not going to get anything at all. these are powerful lobbies, they have been around for years and they have been -- you do the

nationwide shopping, get rid of certificates of need, force hospitals to post prices, infection, how many people die in the hospital from infections received after they get into the hospital. you put in these steps and you'll drive towards a full free market. >> instead of driving towards what they have in britain and there are a lot more people dying over there than there are over here in our hospitals. rebuilding our infrastructure. but are the forbes folks okay with it? a fair and balanced debate, coming next.

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getting america moving again by fixing our potholes. he is pushing a $550 billion infrastructure plan. that would be partly financed by private firms. does this idea make any sense to

you? >> it does make sense, but only if you can get some regulatory reform and labor law reform. interstate-hour system et cetera. it's only in more recent years because of regulation and labor laws that we have really become bad at it. because you've got a couple of the two. >> a lot of people are saying be careful guys, look at the cost of federal infrastructure spending from 2009 to 2014. $570 billion. during the same time the debt has gone way up. there is a cost to this, is there not? >> what an awful idea from the trump administration, and how we know it's an awful idea is that if the hillary clinton administration were proposing the same thing, republicans would be evis rating such a plan, infrastructure doesn't drive economic growth, it's an effective economic growth.

if it drove it, west virginia would be the richest state in the united states. >> a lot of people stay, hey, look, if it didn't work under president obama, his stimulus plan, it's not going to work under president obama. president-elect trump wants to use a lot of private money for this infrastructure, he's saying for example, you can get it all at $2 trillion that's parked overseas in cash from u.s. companies, if you tell us if you bring it back and invest in infrastructure, we'll get this for you. >> this plan is precisely to get private companies involved, because when the government does it, there's no problem. there's no infrastructure crisis, there's no airlines, there's no infrastructure -- because the private sector runs them. so in this case, they're trying to get the private sector involved, that's a good thing, but i think rich is right, and you do have to have those moments in there, to remove the

regulatory obstacles, one thing they might consider is having local companies do it. that way you don't have lagger heads from washington, that 77 billion from obama, we don't know where it went. we do know where it came from, all of it. that's the difference, between this plan and obama's plan. >> look, david, i would just think this is not exactly the first step that a republican president would usually i was hoping for something like a big tax cut, to that companies could apply their resources accordingably. some infrastructure doesn't require new spending, it requires the new spending to sign off of them. that's an infrastructure project that doesn't require sort of a new infusion of cash, so certainly if you rolled back those regulations, i would be very happy to support that infrastructure. >> he could do it all, he could

do the pipeline, he could do the infrasure, he could go the tax. just look at the thought of the infrastructure spending. >> they have sent it way up. i'm for common sense, margaret thatcher said economists take the infrastructure, where you or i take the bridges or the roads. but what happens with the money, rich is right, it happened with ronald reagan, it got trapped in 1981 for five years and then the recovery takes hold. i think you spend that money because it's needed not for economic growth reasons. >> bruce, you were talking up infrastructure spending back when president obama was pushing it, what do you think of this plan? >> well, my problem with this is this whole idea of like tax cuts and so forth, i think people generally understand that building roads and bridges costs money and there has to be some sort of revenue component, so i

don't really know where he's going to get the money for all of this, maybe he could get mexico to pay for it with his wall, and also we need to prioritize and tell the voters what are we going to spend it on and i think it will be more p palatable. >> in point of fact, this guy's determined do do it all quickly, within the first 100 days to get a lot of this stuff done. >> as well he should, he's got that opportunity, i'm glad he's being aggressive about this. trump supporter peter teal, one of the lone donald trump supporters in silicon valley. all of the risk capital goes into web companies, financial service companies, what he calls bitses companies and adams economy, the economy of infrastructure gets starved. so the question is why is that? and the answer is because of labor laws and regulations.

>> very quickly, steve, we don't have much time, but i'm taking advantage of the fact that you're in washington, you have got the nation's capital right behind you, are they aflayraid there that he's actually going to get something like this done? >> something positive can be done. you get a bold tax through, you get an environment for infrastructure. >> the american people can create it if the government gives them a little leeway. the cashed in gang at the bottom of the hour, what have you got? >> they won't enforce president-elect trump's plan to depart illegal immigrants committing crimes. lots of democrats blaming everyone else for their big election los, but are their liberal policies to blame? >> thank you very much. up here, first, tired of getting

zipped from that you are savings account. some say donald trump's about to change that by major hauling the federal reserve. others warn that could punish americans even more. the big debate coming next. g ne. you're smart. you already knew that. but it's also great for finding the perfect used car. you'll see what a fair price is, and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you're even smarter. this is truecar. is depression more than sadness? ♪

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ask your healthcare professional if trintellix could make a difference for you. are you tired of getting just a few pennies from your savings account. after president-elect donald trump

. i don't have to tell you, savers and pensioners getting killed by the fed interest rate. steve, just look at what savers

are getting now. 0.06%, they're getting killed. if. >> if they don't get paid for savings, then they aren't saving, and you see them in loans to small and new businesses. get the fed out of the way and the economy will blossom. >> savings is supposed to be something that's rewarded, not penalized. >> i would go with what steve said in the previous section. >> bill, don't we need to have -- to encourage savings because that's the basis of a lot of investment.

>> so, yes, it has been bad for savers, but for those who may maker it to a new house, raising rates is something that's going to be hard for us. we have to be thinking that we don't want the fed to become too powerful. >> it is terrible. the state thinks they're growth sivertsens. they have everything in power. it's not a good stance to v

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. >> i like this company, i like the balance sheet. >> oh, wonderful. so it's called low tech. >> that's it for forbes on fox. have a great weekend, everybody, keep it right here, the number one business block continues with eric bolling and cashing in. president-elect donald trump is in, criminal illegals are out. the deportation plans are mounting, now some city mayors and police chiefs are vowing to protect illegal immigrants, even if they committed crimes, is it time to cut the cash off? hi, i'm eric bolling. welcome back to cashing in. welcome, everybody, now gina, when trump takes office, should he cut them off when they don't enforce immigration laws? >> we tend to lose in this argument that this is actually about law breaking, so not only should he cut them up, but they should be subject to