>> we will be back here in one hour. >> "outnumbered" starts right now. sandra: fox news alert for you. we are looking live as well as you are in midtown man at that s he will meet ford ceo alan mulally. consider -- kcke restaurant ceo, andy puzder will be labor secretary but not without controversy. we #oneluckyguy fox news senior judicial analyst, judge andrew napolitano. >> thanks for having me.

sandra: no introduction. the laugh says it all. there is so much going on. so many changes, the administration taking shape. we have breaking news right now. think i we should get started. all right, judge, president-elect donald trump's administration is taking shape as key slots are being filled but some of those choices have sparked criticism. mr. trump's big to head the department of homeland security, retired marine general tom kelly, considered a hard-liner for his opposition to women in combat, for opposing the closing of gitmo. critics say he has no direct experience with the many agencies under dhs umbrella. democrats are outraged by the president-elect's choice to lead the epa they describe oklahoma attorney general scott pruitt as the ally of fossil fuel industry and climate change denier. one environmental group says, quote, pruitt is cozy with the oil and gas industry and treats the epa like an enemy. both of those positions put him

at odds with what the american people and what is best for this country. sir there is some controversial decision being made right now. >> president of the united states, president-elect was elect and gets to choose who will run the epa. it will be decidedly different from the epa that one wants to regulate puddles in your backyard or wants you to get permission from washington, d.c. anytime you go near a body of water, no matter how large or how small it may be. entirely different, more reasonable, more sensible, more sensitive, less government-dominated view of the environment. sandra: let's get to specifics on pruitt's views on climate change. here's what he says. scientists continue to disagree about the degree and extent of global warming and its connection to the actions of mankind.

that debate should be encouraged in classrooms, public forums and the halls of congress. it should not be silenced with threats of prosecution. dissent is not a crime. meghan. meghan: can't help but think of al gore going to visit donald trump this week in trump tower. there were a lot of rumors that ivanka trump's main issue will be climate change. >> right. meghan: you can't help to thinkm and ivanka. like most americans the environment is not top 10 how i vote. i will take donald trump's hand on this i don't have a problem with this choice, like you said i think the devil is in the details. when you're talking about the overregulation for farmers, for puddles, things like that, elections have consequences. this is entirely different view. >> he is following through on his promise. he promised he would appoint someone who would dial back the intrusive overregulation of the epa the epa has been before the supreme court twice and barack obama's nearly eight years in white house. both times the supreme court smacked them down.

sandra: harris? harris: just real quickly, then i'm going to throw all the rest of my time to taya, flint, michigan, what a hot mess and dangerous toxic miss of a collision of bad decisions over years and years and years. >> right. harris: if dialing back in some oversight would allow us to have better judgment and better plans in place for those types of emergencies or maybe even prevention, shoring up states where local authorities are not making right decisions i think the country would agree on that. so i do think we have to look what difference looks like. this is going to be a difference. can it maybe make a better difference in some places. taya? >> flint, michigan was criminal indifference of local authorities and had nothing to do with the epa. harris: you don't think a place for the epa to come in and say, do your job? >> of course there is. sandra: that is one of the big decision being made. secretary of state is one of the biggest. seems like the bench keeps getting deeper. donald trump is meeting with

alan mulally, former ceo of ford. also before that boeing. so throw a lot of these people into the mix and people say, well, what about the whole mitt romney situation? newt gingrich, he was challenged on, would you still support that mitt romney choice because gingrich has said, hey, he was very critical of donald trump along the way. listen to what newt gingrich said when asked about that. >> if he ends up picking romney, which i hope he doesn't, but if he does i will support him because i think the president-elect is allowed to have the cabinet that he thinks will help him best but i'll tell you, give the people he is interviewing, given the range of people he's brought in, i don't get a sense he is rushing to pick mitt romney. i get a sense he is looking for an alternative. sandra: taya? >> i agree. just like in any position of power where you're hiring people underneath you will look at main priorities first. make sure they have qualifications to fit the main priority. if they're an intelligent human being they learn other stuff on the job and he is confident.

>> the real reason he is meeting with alan mull mull lal ily? to see if there is cheaper way to build a cheaper air force one. he ran boeing. [laughter] harris: recent dealings we're reading about between boeing and china might have some of the calculations that are going on there. taya, curious to get your opinion about government and what its expectations are. with the epa in particular. when you vote somebody new in you expect things to change. >> you expect things to change. i think what you want, you want some common sense. that is certainly what the voters were saying when they went through donald trump. they wanted to cut through some of the bs and red tape and get past the puddles you're talking about with epa and get to things we care about. that is what donald trump is succeeding with pruitt, kelly, mattis. all these people who have experience, common sense experience on the ground. they have dealt with things that really matter in instead of all the minutia and theory we found in the presented a administration. harris: interesting. they're also in the business,

those generals of saving lives and keeping people alive through the mission. we will talk more about that. president-elect donald trump naming retired marine general john kelly to head homeland security the number of former generals on his national security team is rising. there are now three of them. with general david petraeus being considered for secretary of state, and two retired admirals up for top spots, critics are raising concerns whether there will be too much military influence in the administration. democratic senator chris murphy says, quote, i'm concerned each of these individuals may have great merit in their own right but what we've learned over the past 15 years when we view problems in the world through a military lens, we make big mistakes, end quote. but, retired marine general jack keane called the concerns baseless. keane says, these generals in particular are proven leaders. watch. >> they are at the top of their profession. so as a result of it, what meets are people who are appealing, who are confident to him, they

have, they have proven professionals. they are dedicated to this country for so many years. if the concern is that these generals somehow are going to push the country toward war more than civilians would, that is, that is nonsense. harris: full disclosure, i'm a brat, sometimes a military brat you but always a brat. so that military mind-set to me is what -- >> just caught that always a brat. harris: logistical and makes sense. you're the daughter of a military family. >> daughter. great granddaughter. harris: turned into a political leader in this country. is there too much military? >> there is the dumb evident thing i ever heard. i don't know culturally we got to the point, having leadership skills, real life leadership skills like being in war became a bad thing or taking under impression somehow could be a negative. richard nixon had a cabinet of 12 and seven in his cabinet served in the military. apparently nobody has a problem

with bunch of harvard lawyers and harvard yows, that's fine. god forbid you served your country. you know what war takes. past that, general kelly is gold star father. he knows sacrifices of war, to sort of belittle that. sandra: could i challenge that with this quote from lawrence korb, assistant secretary of defense at reagan administration. not that there is anything wrong with military people. you spent 40 years of your life in particular profession. that will color the way you see problems. >> i'm sorry anytime i have life criseses in work or personal i call my brothers and i call his fellow marines, hands down. nobody works better in crisis situation. harris: they're strategist. >> they're strategists. they're calm under pressure. i take such offense we could have a bunch of ivy league lawyers working in all forms of government, god forbid we have experienced generals. >> as ivy league lawyer -- i agree with that.

>> i can say this, i'm an ivy league girl myself. harris: bringing experience to the table, taya. >> the united states is our home. if you buy a new home, what is first thing you do, you get the locks changed and make things secure before you worry about gardening. that's what we're talking about here. we're in a different place than we ever been in our country. we're not facing a country wanting to take over our country, a threat we see coming something decided strategicsly. we're facing terrorists embedding themselves in our culture. that is enemy we cannot see. we need somebody that knows security and enemy we're fighting. that is the first, most basic thing we need. >> this is blatant political partisan arguing. harris: really? >> barack obama had david petraeus running cia. barack obama's first national security advisor was retired marine corps general james jones. harris: yep. >> donald trump told the american public he admirers the skill of many generals. general james mattis is an academic. has a personal library of 4,000 books. he has read all of them.

who less wants to send people in battle than a general who has tasted war? sandra: amen. harris: one of the things, and this fits into that then. it would be why i feel like there is this fake surprise on the left with this issue because do you remember those events that the president-elect would bring all these generals and they would be all over the stage with him? >> right. harris: i don't know why this is such a shocker. >> hillary did same thing when she was campaigning made sure a couple generals were behind her like it was good thing. all of sudden it is not. sandra: i think we agree it should come down to the individual most qualified for the job regardless of uniform. >> in the opinion of the president. meghan: i think it is elitism at its very worse. we can't negate there is historical shift way american public, people on the left people who have served than taking cabinet positions. seven out of 12 in the nixon administration is a lot. all of sudden we have problem with it now? times have changed. harris: we love you ivy leaguers

on the couch. [laughter]. meghan: this is so fancy. harris: the process continues. president-elect donald trump when he sits down with our own chris wallace for an exclusive interview on "fox news sunday." it's this weekend. check your local fox station listings, watch it on fox news channel 2:00 p.m., 10 p.m. eastern on sunday. don't miss it. president obama's admitting he was caught off-guard by the spread and strength of the islamic state savages, my words, not his. despite repeated warnings from intelligence officials. how is that possible? calls for one lawmaker for an indto what he calls president obama's politically-collect policies on homeland security and counterterrorism. whether the incoming trump administration will make big changes, what they could look like. get ready, because when the tv version wraps up on this friday eve, baby we pop up on line. fox news. com/outnumbered.

tap the "overtime" tab or watch us live on facebook. sandra: it's a party. harris: tweet anytime. sandra is already tweeting. tweet tweet, little birdie. we'll see you in a minute. ♪ my name is pam. i'm 51 years old. when i was diagnosed with pneumococcal pneumonia, it was huge for everybody. she just started to decline rapidly. i was rushed to the hospital... my symptoms were devastating. the doctor said, "pam! if you'd have waited two more days, you would've died." if i'd have known that a vaccine could have helped prevent this, i would have asked my doctor or pharmacist about it.

♪s♪spread a little love my way ♪spread a little somethin to remember♪ philadelphia cream cheese, made with fresh milk and real cream. makes your recipes their holiday favorites. the holidays are made with philly.

>> syria is a huge magnet for extremists. >> al-baghdadi is global terrorist underu.s. law and he is based in syria. his mission is clearly stated in his own statements to carve out his own governing territory from baghdad to syria to lebanon. >> the level of destruction they're having, level of killing they're doing inside of that country, it's terrible. meghan: despite those repeated warnings, president obama is claiming that the spread of isis took him by surprise. he made the comments about the terror group in an interview on cnn. watch. >> the ability of isil to initiate major land offenses is, that was not on my intelligence radar screen. >> this despite intel on isis being included in his daily briefings, at least a year before the group seized territory in the middle east. meantime mr. obama saying earlier this week in florida,

leaving troops in iraq back in 2011, would not have prevented the group from expanding. judge let me go to you first. i'm having a really hard time with president obama this week, i don't know if it is spin to save his legacy or if it is actual delusion. this statement is shameless. we ran the clip of people warning him. we know he got daily briefings. i don't understand how he can possibly think it wasn't going to happen? >> the bad news he continues to delude himself and continues to be frustrated with the rejection of his legacy. going to spend the next month reformulating the legacy when it was rejected by the voters when they rejected hillary clinton. the good news, one of the people he seems to have forgotten, getting intelligence, the last clip you ran up there, was then lt. general mike flynn who is president-elect trump's senior national security advisor and knows exactly what he told president obama and now has an ear willing to hear uncomfortable truths about intelligence problems and

willing to do something about those uncomfortable truths. meghan: harris, is it him? is president obama trying to save his legacy? is he trying to spin history? >> i do think this is part of how he sees things idealogically and to his credit he doesn't get out of his lane on this at all. unfortunately the facts would lead him to believe that he should shift lanes. i know we have a little bit of sound of him talking about iraq security forces. if we could roll that it would be good to come out of that. let's see if we put that in the control room. i don't know if we can do that. okay, here we go. being told to pause. >> maintaining american troops in iraq at the time could not have reversed the forces that contributed to isil's rise? a government in baghdad that pursued sectarian agenda, a brutal dictator in syria who lost control of large parts of country. social media that reached a global pool of recruits and a hollowing out of iraq's security

forces. >> yeah. taya, i'm curious to get your thoughts where the president is in all of this. he lists some things there but all you have to do is look at five seconds video from aleppo, syria, to know where we are. it is heart-breaking. >> i can see where meghan coming from a little bit being disgusted throwing his intelligence leaders under the bus. i think he is doing that a little bit. the other side i agree with you, harris. idealogically he wants to believe radical islam is not that bad. he continues to ask us to trust and be open-minded believe terrorism really isn't as bad as we think it is. he is acting as if the generals are playing it up for their own political purposes. reality of it, people who are serving overseas and people who dealt with it, in the homeland, here, we know it's real, for him to say that he is surprised by that means he is not getting it and we are? i find that hard to believe. i'm not getting briefings and i talk to people that believe there are sleeper cells in this

country and they are in syria and mosul too. sandra: people say we're looking back and want to look forward. chairman mccaul agreed with a lot of things donald trump called for by extreme vetting. suspending immigration from high-risk countries, addressing home-grown terrorism. -- meghan: can we start with a president saying islamic extremism. that is what i'm excited about. we'll have a leader that will recognize the fact that these people are extremists they will come here and kill us or we'll kill them. one way or the other. we just had a president, you're right actually. i would like to second what taya. harris: you're right, actually. ivy league, whatever. meghan: i have a hard time thinking -- harris: i love it. meghan: very difficult for me to figure out where president obama's head space. for those of us live in reit'll we know what danger isis is. he can't say islamic extremism.

he is surprised by the rise. you're right. >> this is what congressman mccaul is concerned b i'm not concerned about the language they use. i will grant you this, whatever language and tone president uses filters down through the rest of government, the people actually executing the policy the president puts in place. it should be descriptive and accurate. harris: problem with it getting into the bloodstream from the white house that you may or may not listen to your generals, then on down the chain, people don't know if you're really working on this together. it builds bad morale with the military. you lean on them so hard. you have to lift them up. sandra: speaking of chairman mccaul, house homeland security chairman mike mccaul call for an end what he calls president obama's politically correct national security policies. he blames the white house for the rise of isis. mccaul says terrorists are responsible for more than a thousand deaths worldwide this year alone. as we talked about pointing out to the obama administration's refusal to use the phrase, just

said it, radical islamic terrorism. as just one example of weakness. >> our country is less secure than it was eight years ago. we are grappling with a calamities of retreat and a failed foreign policy. today, our allies no longer trust us, our adversaries no longer fear us, and our enemies are plotting against us. but the american people have spoken and last month they rejected leading from behind policies. sandra: the congressman says the incoming trump administration can turn everything around and is calling for a strategy that includes suspending all immigration from high-risk areas like syria, iraq and yemen. revamping the u.s. visa application review process to include social media intelligence. a lot of people have been calling for that. creating a national terrorism hotline where people can report suspected terrorist activities in their own towns.

launching a national terrorism registry where those convicted of terror would be forced to sign up. start with chairman mccaul's premise that we are less safe, judge, today than we were eight years ago. would you agree with that? >> yes, i would agree with that, and for whatever reason, whether political correctness, whether it is reluctance on the part of barack obama -- sandra: what do you attribute that to? >> it is reluctance on the part of barack obama to pursue these monsters using military force rather to use diplomatic sphere, hillary clinton and john kerry, or use intelligence, intelligence assets if they were military fighting small, secret wars rather than one grand strategy. donald trump has said, my generals will give me one grand strategy and we're going to execute it. i don't think barack obama ever had that. sandra: you really, meghan, think that obama's pc policies not saying the words radical islamic terrorism you think that

contributed to the rise of isis? >> i think he couldn't say the word nazi in world war ii things might have ended up differently. if you can not identify evil that is your enemy, that these are extremists they want to kill us, if you can't recognize that because you're scared of pc culture i think it hurts us. i think it hurt morale in the military. harris: people tell me in the military that it has. meghan: drives my brothers insane. something they told me over and over again they have a problem. >> are they disciplined if they use that phrase in the military? meghan: i don't know one way or the other. takes forever after sleeper cell, radical in this country, when terror attack happens here we sate so long to even identify it as terrorism. question i have you're more libertarian than i am. i am thrilled donald trump will enact social media alerts if you're writing how much you love isis and -- harris: how we learned about the san bernanadino killers, how

active they were. meghan: are you okay with it? will silicon valley help him and be on board? >> i'm not crazy on a society where people report on everybody else, you get a lot of false reports. the government has a lot of access to what people say because so much is public but if i'm going to get in trouble for not reporting on you, then i will err on the side of reporting and that is going to create like what they had in east germany, most frequently prosecuted crime in last four years of east germany, was not espionage, failure to report neighbors. president's job to get to the middle, respecting the first amendment, respecting freedom of speech, respecting privacy. he has cut out a difficult path for him but that is what we elected him to do. >> you have to call a spade and a spade, christianity, that is my religion and what i love and kkk can claim it, doesn't have it be christianity is bad. we have to call them out saying

that it is wrong we should do the same thing with radical islam. talking about people being in trouble for not reporting, i get it. we have to be reported in our heart, you don't want mccarthy situation where everybody calls each other out that would be horrible. we need to educate people. turn it over to us, we'll weed through it, and have faith they will read through it we will be in a good position. harris: that is great example the first one you gave about christianity. people can really understand that. but what that also takes and we see this in our -- meghan: difference between christianity -- harris: hold on one second. we see this because people will work together. what we're asking muslims in this country to also be willing to do that. so they have got to get there too. some of them have. some of them have. >> what you suggested is anybody can hide behind religion. a bad person can hide behind a good religion. harris: great example. >> it can happen everywhere. meghan: pledging allegiance to al-baghdadi doesn't have anything to do with religion.

you're pledging isis. i don't see that as religion. harris: they're using tenets -- meghan: i spoke with national security expert on my radio show, ohio attacker what you put on facebook page, you better, gave threats to the united states, that would be enough for him to be alerted. i have no problem with no president trump alerting people when you're saying i love isis. i may put out an attack. watch out america. i don't have a problem with people like that being flagged. harris: we didn't see an onslaught of problems after 9/11. we were told to say something if we see something. sandra: top aid to hillary clinton stepping up her criticism of the trump campaign saying it gave political cover to white nationalists, and therefore new life to their movement. so is this just more sour grapes? and is it time to let it go? plus one of america's most prestigious military academies sparking controversy after offering, wait for it, coloring stations, like coloring books

and crayons to cadets for stress test. is this a way to prepare soldiers or another way to chill for exam time. harris: can i borrow your crayons? hey, need fast heartburn relief?

try cool mint zantac. it releases a cooling sensation in your mouth and throat. zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. try cool mint zantac. no pill relieves heartburn faster.

channel islands national park. coronado. saguaro. you'll see there's one that's an eagle. my number one goal is getting more funds out to parks because some animals and plants are only found in one place in the world, and that's in some national parks. i find that's a great cause, and i want to support it. (avo) the subaru share the love event has donated over four million dollars to help the national parks. get a new subaru, and we'll donate two hundred and fifty dollars more. ♪put a little love in your heart.♪ feel free to be yourself all day.... just switch from denture paste to sea-bond denture adhesive seals. holds stronger than the leading paste all day... without the ooze. feel secure. be yourself. with stronger, clean sea-bond.

♪ harris: exactly a month since the election and a top aide to hillary clinton is refusing to give up her attacks on the trump campaign. jennifer palmieri is stepping up her criticism on the way it was run saying that the campaign gave voice to white nationalists. in op-ed in "washington post" she writes, quote, i don't know whether the trump campaign needed to give a platform to white supremacists to win but it clearly did and had effect empowering white nationalists movement. if trump expect the americans to

e who did not vote for him as president to accept him as president he sneads to accept all americans. judge, your thought. >> i was sorry to see the brew you mustafa al-hawasawi at harvard. it was tempest in a teapot. the election is over and everybody should move on. as donald trump is showing by the people he sees daily at trump tower he is attempting to put his arm around everybody from al gore and rahm emanuel, to more mainstream republicans. if he had people support him that he would not invite to his home, or who's views he would not champion, what is he supposed to say, don't vote for me? harris: interesting. you know, the term, white supremacist, white national it, brings in race here. >> yes. harris: nothing about what the judge said though had anything to do with that. this is political collision. is this an attempt to make sitting else? >> absolutely. this is just, they don't want to let go of the fact that donald trump be xenophobe, misogynist, regardless of diverse i in his cabinet. they want to hang on to that.

harris: dr. ben cars son. >> dr. ben carson. elaine chao. i don't want to mispronounce her name they have a lot of diversity. they want to hang on to that his supporters were these people who were mormons and we know it. finish with this, when you look at supporters i remember during the election they said, somebody tweeted they loved trump and should repeal 117th amendment and shouldn't have right to vote. that came a thing. sufficient from get movement. people wearing this to the polls. just a card they're playing to manipulate. harris: clearly it didn't resonate. >> no, it is moronic. sandra: banner says it best, time to let it go. jennifer palmieri, after those remarks she also stressed as president-elect, thank you for this tip, everything you say matters, she is warning donald trump. also urged him to reach out to voters who did not cast ballots for him. i mean -- >> when did obama reached out to voters who did not.

hasn't reached out to her but certainly reached out to rahm emanuel and those folks. come on. meghan: listen, they will be remembered historically for their loss. history will analyze everything jennifer palmieri did wrong, what they missed. what a horrible candidate hillary clinton was. what sycophants she had surrounding her. she is having a hard time. i said earlier in the week on the couch, these people will not get hired to do anything interesting again in politics. final nail in the coffin. sandra: i remember that. meghan: big, big upset having donald trump win. all that being said, i think they're acting incredibly unprofessionally. they're acting like very poor losers, sore losers, if you want to reach out to the demographic donald trump earned this is the fairs way not to do it. >> meghan reminded me of something. practical reason not to be sore losers. they need jobs. they need democrats to hire them to run other campaigns. harris: meghan alludes to a good point. it isn't so much donald trump won, the fact that the best of

their party lost and they shut out a portion of a big voice in their party, a la bernie sanders. they have real problems. they have got a fire inside of the house. so they have got some real problems to solve. >> they seem to forget how offensive president obama's comments were, i will never cling to your god and your guns ever. that is statement stayed with me. not only donald trump said insend did i airy things when he run for president. it is easy to wash history when you say that. >> i don't have a whole lot to add to that. they're being sore losers and playing the blame game instead of looking at their party. the more they do that. confidence we have -- >> does except us really care what she thinks about why she lost? meghan: good point, inside the beltway story. average american care or know who jennifer palmieri is? she will not work in politics anymore. you have to find something else to do. harris: struggle back and forth

as people look past january 20th, we know obamacare is one of the first things this administration is promising to deal with. cabinet members are being pulled together, faster i might add historically than bill clinton, who took a very long time to pull his team together. so i think people, meghan, to your point are more focused on less the semantics and more about the actual pieces coming in. you look like you have a thought bubble. >> no. that is my constant look. [laughter] harris: i love that. all right. democrats are pushing president obama to grant clemency to more than 700,000 young illegal immigrants known as dreamers. he says no, but president-elect trump appears to be softening the his tone on issue of d.r.e.a.m.ers? how will that fit with republicans? and is it the right thing to do? stay with us.

with my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, the possibility of a flare was almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb.

tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. raise your expectations. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible. youthat's why you drink ensure. sidelined. with 9 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. for the strength and energy to get back to doing... ...what you love. ensure. always be you.

my eyelove is finding a ♪"all yodifferent angle.plays my eyelove is season 1, episode 1.

my eyelove is making a story come alive. eyelove is all the things we love to do with our eyes. but it's also having a chat with your eye doctor about dry eyes that interrupt the things you love. because if your eyes feel dry, itchy, gritty, or you have occasional blurry vision, it could be chronic dry eye. go to myeyelove.com and feel the love.

♪ meghan: house democrats are pushing president obama to grant clemency to more than 700,000 young illegal immigrants known as d.r.e.a.m.ers. so far the president is reportedly not planning to do so as president-elect trump appears to be softening his tone on issue, promising to rescind the obama's administration executive actions. mr. trump telling "time" magazine, quote, we'll work something out that will make people happy and proud they got brought here at very young age. they have worked here, gone to school here. some were good students. some have wonderful jobs and they're in never-never land because they don't know what's going to happen. but this isn't sitting well with some republicans who say mr. trump should keep his campaign promise. harris: okay, so -- meghan: want to go to you first, judge. this is a very, very emotional hot button issue. >> yes. meghan: especially in border states where taya and i are from. if donald trump hedges on this a little bit, there will be mutiny with his base. >> i don't know who the

republicans are that want him to deport 700,000 young people who came here as babies are becoming teenagers and college students. the idea of clemency is misplaced. staying here as an undocumented immigrant is not a crime, it is a civil offense. the president of the united states can only grant a pardon for a criminal offense. so there is nothing barack obama can do to make these people lawful. the congress could make them law full or president trump could decide, i'm going to let them stay for the reasons he told "time" magazine. it would be profoundly unfair to punish them because they appear as american as everybody else. they came here, came here as infants. i think he will soften his stance on immigration. i think the practical reality of, it costs $250,000 per deportation. this is somebody who wants to save a lot of money. the practical reality of that will cause a softening of the tone, much like the quote you read he gave to "time" magazine.

if you put in some sort of a guess machine, who said this, nobody would guess it was donald trump. meghan: no. harris: consider the loss that president obama suffered on this very issue a few months ago from the u.s. supreme court in terms of him wanting to shield four or five million people from deportation at that point. >> parents of children born here. harris: he didn't have the power to do it then. arguably, you know, because this isn't clemency you can't pardon, the president might not have the power to do much here but what he can do is call off the forces that would go after some of these kids. what would that look like i hear you saying, judge? not just to mention the price tag, but the heart matter of it? how do you get around it? >> he began his campaign with very, very aggressive, some would say vicious attack not only on those who are here and undocumented but on republicans who wanted them to stay here, including your father. the fact that he is now dialing it back is the donald trump putting his arms around everybody.

so, the president of the united states of america is the chief federal law enforcement officer. as a practical matter he can't enforce all laws because there aren't enough resources to do so. he can dial some back. donald trump could very well say to the 700,000, go on with your life. meghan: you wrote an article about this on sanctuary cities. >> my article said sanctuary cities legal? yes, they are. the president can not force the localities to do the job off the feds of the that is not me. that is the supreme court. sandra: he is threatening to with hold federal funding? >> he can only do that if the federal funding comes with strings attached. he can't with hold federal funding already budgeted. but first donald trump budget he could say to rahm emanuel, you want your billion dollars, want another half billion dollars for your schools, here are the strings attached. sandra: some are going to hear what you said earlier about he is going to get into the white house, see numbers involved in deportation process like he is talking about.

>> right. sandra: by you saying that are you suggesting he did not quite have a hold of situation and depth of situation, judge? >> i think economic realities will cause him to reevaluate some of his more strident statements. it will happen in this area. harris: taya, what is happy medium that you see? >> i think, even when he said he wanted to get rid of a lot of illegal immigrants, especially those committing crimes, i can understand that, right. i don't think anybody expects him to take children and teenagers out of school and throw them out. i don't think that was ever the expectation. i think he will find a happy medium, starting with criminals, besides being here illegally, it is a civil offense, not a crime. he can make a little bit of progress -- harris: is that enough for the base? >> it will have to start to be that. i think the base, if they are really upset need to chill a little bit. he is not even president yet. give him a chance to get in office before we accuse him not keeping his promise.

meghan: a lot of people are forgetting that. he isn't president yet. >> because he is doing things. meghan: one of america's most esteemed military academies sparking criticism with a new stress reduction program that gives coloring books to full-grown cadets. is this the best way to prepare for war? we'll discuss. for lower back pain sufferers, the search for relief often leads here. introducing drug-free aleve direct therapy. a high intensity tens device that uses technology once only in doctors' offices. for deep penetrating relief at the source. new aleve direct therapy.

harris: more "outnumbered" in just a moment first let's go to jenna lee with what is coming up in the second hour of hairing now. >> president-elect trump continues to fill out his cabinet. chris stirewalt on that. howie kurtz is here analysis of the trump transition so far. why are so many appointments and military leaders getting so batched press? you guys had a great debate. we'll talk more about it as well. disturbing trend in health. number of americans dying from heart disease is actually increasing after decreasing for some years. why is that? we have a great panel top of the hour for you. harris: that is fascinating. think about that as you're saying. we'll be watching. thank you, jenna. sandra: now the segment you've all been waiting for.

virginia military institute sparking controversy over a program for its cadets. it offers activities like coloring book stations to help them relax before studying for finals. critics call the program embarrassing for such a prestigious school and one recent graduate tells the "washington free beacon," quote, if you can not deal with the stress of exams, i can guarranty you will not be able to lead soldiers in combat. this type of crap, pardon me, is setting these cadets up to fail in the military and the real world. but, the group that hosts these stress-busters event saying cadets seem loo to like it. science proves that coloring relieves stress. we have couple opinions both directions on the couch. taya, you have experience with this. i feel like you're going to kind of defend this? >> well, okay, not exactly because i do think that the in theory, okay, there is a lot of science behind color therapy and

using colors to provoke emotions and move things around with emdr in the brain. there is a lot to be said. i'm a firm believer that it works. practically speaking giving them coloring books is idiotic in my opinion. that will not make theme feel good. if they're working with colors different ways scientifically based i get that coloring books has connotation for toddlers. doesn't work for guys out as quote said to lead men in combat. sandra: meghan, you have a different take on this? meghan: color therapy is one thing for people experiencing stress or ptsd. making grown men and women color in coloring books, that is borderline absurd and i also think if you ever spent anytime around cadets or men and women in the military of any branch, you want to know how they relief stress, give them leave and let them do whatever they want. have a few drinks, hang out with loved ones. this is not rocket science. this is leftist school ideology being put on men and women in the military which i think is a

very dangerous precedent. sandra: critics outside of the military academy. judge, i mean there's cadets that have graduated you heard from and those currently at the school, we can't be doing this. this doesn't look good. >> the reason i wore this necktie today because i knew we would be talking about putting weird colors together. some psychologists says it works. for some people it might work. for others seems ridiculous. it seems absurd and ridiculous to someone of my generation but if it works for the kids, if it relieves stress, makes them better soldiers, i don't care. sandra: say from raising children that the greatest tools that you can give your kids is things that work quickly and in the moment. >> coloring books. harris: taking out a coloring book and deciding your palate for the moment is not how you prepare a soldier for war. it may be, as you said ptsd. may be a posttraumatic situation that you would attack color therapy with but to go into war you have to give them real tools and in real time they can employ. otherwise you're making them weaker.

that is my humble opinion. >> by the way color therapy is different than a coloring book. harris: absolutely. absolutely. sandra: by the way it doesn't relax me. i get stressed out staying inside the lines. harris: i don't color inside the lines, baby. sandra: more "outnumbered" in a moment.

harris: a big weekend coming up. of course i'll see you sunday night. before that president-elect donald trump is sitting down for exclusive interview with our own chris wallace on "fox news sunday."

it is his first sunday show interview since winning election. check the listing to find it on fox station. fnc at 2:00 and 10:00 p.m. eastern. so good to have you today, judge. cooking along on foxnews.com/outnumbered. click on the "overtime" tab and the live chat. and we start with a fox news alert. 8.0 earthquake hit right near new guinea and australia and widespread hazardous tsunami waves are possible. we'll have more on this developing story as we get it. now this fox news çalert. deadly pile up on the interstate in michigan. three people killed and many more hurt. >> it was a pile up between detroit and lansing. the wreck involveded 40 vehicles. we are covering all of the news "happening now".

>