decision to remove a customer from a flight is not taken lightly if the crew determines the customer is causing conflict, the customer will be asked to leave the plane. so he was booted, and all is well for now. we'll see you back here in an hour. "outnumbered" starts right now. harris: we begin with a fox news alert. an international manhunt is underway. german authorities searching for the man they believe drove a truck through a christmas market in berlin. twelve people died, many more were hurt. that suspect is 24-year-old anis amri of tunisia. he was seeking asylum and was already on the radar as a potential terrorist. and now evidence his fingerprints have been found on the door of the big rig used in that massacre. this is outnumbered, here today meg an mccabe, kennedy -- meghan mccain, july january turner and today's #oneluckyguy,

the new opinion page editor for the washington times -- i'll be taking autographs from him later -- charlie hurt is here, he's outnumbered. [laughter] boy, there's a lot going on in the world. >> oh, my goodness, it's incredible. everything out of turkey and berlin, it's just really, reallier terrifying. harris: a good time to have a great editor onboard. thanks for being here. the christmas market in berlin where two americans were injured in monday's attack is reopening today under tight security. and more chilling details emerging about the refugee from tunisia who is europe's most wanted man. at one point he was scheduled to be deported, but a mistake with paperwork kept him in germany. his brothers are speaking out, urging the suspect to give himself up. watch. >> translator: i'm shocked, like every tunisian citizen, who

heard about it. when the police came to the house to take my mom, we knew it was my brother. >> translator: if he is watching me now, i just want to blame him for what he has done. harris: greg talcott joins us now live from berlin. >> reporter: harris, we are at the reopened christmas market here in berlin, the scene of the terror attack. we'll show you around in a moment, but let's give you the absolute latest regarding the investigation into the attack and the suspect. that search is intensifying for the 24-year-old tunisian man, german chancellor angela merkel under a lot of fire right now. she says she thinks the authorities are close to nabbing him. there were raids overnight and through the days. local media, however, says they think the police are still searching for clues. reports also say the suspect, anis amri, very much on the german radar for the past year or so. he was arrested once, he was

detained once, he was monoor to having -- monitored, apparently, offering to commit an attack in germany. and reportedly this guy was also on the u.s. radar, said to be on a no-fly terror list. monitored checking out an online bomb-making site as well as communicating with terror figure. now, harris, i'm going to step aside, let my cameraman, mal james, show you the scene. it was between these christmas market stalls on monday night that that 25-ton truck came barreling through at about 40 miles an hour. we talked to one person who was right next to it. he said it was terrible. right now you can see a lot of crowds, but i've got to say i've lived in europe for 25 years, and this is the saddest christmas market i have ever been to. no music, no jovialty. a lot of sadness, respect being paid at a couple of makeshift memorials. here's what a few people told us about the scene today. take a listen.

>> yeah, we will survive. and also with our values, we will survive. >> it's just so terrible, what happened, yeah. >> reporter: but life goes on here. >> life goes on. berlin, berlin lives on. >> reporter: harris, we have been told that two americans were hurt in the attack, one has been released from the hospital, the latest word we're getting is another is still in the hospital, and we have been told that of the 12 who are still in the hospital, all of them are in serious condition. back to you. harris: greg talcott, thank you very much. you know, charlie, as we look at that scene with that market reopening and hear how silent it is, you do hear the people there persisting. it sits in the shadow of an important post-world war ii church. it's iconic, that market. >> yeah. and god bless those brave germans who are going back out there even though they're not exactly in the christmas spirit, but going out there with a fighting spirit.

i think that's probably the best you can ask for in a situation like this. not only was, is this a massive intelligence failure, but unfortunately it's also an immigration failure. and, you know, we will is see what sort of price angela merkel pays for it politically. but, you know, it really does shine a bright light on a problem that, you know, we unfortunately have to deal with. harris: yeah. i mean, as you look at that, you could imagine that happening in this country. we saw the same thing in nice earlier this year. you could imagine that happening. we've watched angela merkel in her news conference. i know it's a translation. i can't imagine it's easy to contain your anger though if you're living in germany. meghan: i'm happy to have gillian on the couch for this very reason because if i were a german right now -- i'm angry and i'm not german. this man had ties to extremists and extremist forces all around the world.

he came from tunisia, he wasn't radicalized then according to his brother. but with the knowledge from security intel knowing this man was an extremist and, obviously, successfully educate cuted it. so i think there's -- executed it. i think there's a frustration globally. harris: gillian, i'll always understand you can't watch them all. they have many, many, many more/fewer resources because they've let so many people in they can't keep up with. gillian: well, in this instance what's so horrifying is he was under surveillance for a long period of time. to go to carr's point -- charlie's point, more than an intelligence failure, we had the information right there in front of us. the united states put out a warning just last month around thanksgiving talking about christmas markets in europe and warning americans to stay vigilant. so the intelligence was there. this was a failure, this was a sort of administrative, paperwork failure that falls

more to law enforcement. why was this guy not deported? the answer we now know is because he didn't have a passport, so the pakistanis didn't want to take him back. you have to send them somewhere, where do you send them? you can't choose a -- harris: oh, because they don't have a guantanamo bay. >> exactly. the pakistanis -- harris: so are we going to look like that if gitmo closes? gillian: that's a very real possibility. fortunately here in the united states, we haven't made some of the grave mistakes that germany has made such as taking in millions of people in the last year without vetting them. we've got very good vetting procedures in place here, and president obama and this administration has been talking about something like 10,000 -- harris: well, they want to bump that. gillian: i don't think the trump administration will. but anyway, it's nowhere near -- not comparable to the number that have flooded into germany. harris: kennedy, people don't feel good about the vetting

process at all. kennedy: no, they shouldn't, and i think there's an implicit distrust with the government. and these programs tend to be so bureaucratic and bloated, which is the case with most government systems, that they do tend to fail. but here as we saw in the united states, and i know i've brought this point up several times, it's not an intelligence failure. you had the guy, but the question i want to know is how many other people are there exactly like this? how many people are on the radar, you know, who maybe haven't committed crimes that are actual, but this guy was a dirtbag. i mean, his dad said he was a drug addict and a drug dealer and, you know, he had been arrested for assault. he'd supposedly burned down a school in the past. he made his way to germany through italy. the whole thing is so questionable because even tunisia, when the government was contacted, they tried to disavow him and say he wasn't even tunisian. so, obviously, if you're not having partnerships in the middle east that cooperate with these governments, you're never

going to solve these kinds of problems. and, you know, i have to say i'm actually glad in this country that we do have second amendment rights, which they do not in western europe. they're silly with guns, but good people can't get them. you can't track every single person. you can't always defend or expect law enforcement to defend you from them. harris: real quickly, new port richey, phenomenal, today -- florida, today, a man's mother called and said he was making threats. they don't know, they're putting the story together, but you asked how many of these people are in this country, this is a story that's breaking right now in florida, coming together. we'll report the facts as we learn them, but lots of questions. president-elect donald trump is speaking publicly for the very first time about the berlin attack, suggesting he might go forward his campaign pledge to temporarily ban some muslims from entering the united states. a reporter asked him if the christmas market massacre is

making him reevaluate that proposal along with a plan to create a registry. harris: all right. we come out, we talk about this idea. you know, we saw president-elect donald trump tweet about this, but this is the first time, as i've said, we've heard from him publicly. what are your thoughts? >> well, whether or not this proves whether he's 100% about this or not, i think most americans believe that this does prove that he is correct. and this may, you know, obviously, this raises all sorts of questions for a lot of people. but, you know, as absurd this knowing is that the reason this guy -- this notion is that the reason this guy couldn't be deported is because he didn't have a passport, those policies are the same policies we have in this country.

if you can get across the border and into the country and walk up to a border agent and say give me an appointment with a deportation judge, that's all you need. and you get to stay. and so it is a real problem not only there, it is a real problem here, and i think there's political support for doing -- harris: one of the things on "outnumbered" we've watched over the last year or so is meghan mccain's needle move with donald trump on certain issues. this was an issue you felt strongly he hit the nail on the head. why? meghan: because i think there's so much frustration with so many americans when there's a terror attack, that they had been flagged, that family members had reported these people, they'd been flying back and forth to the middle east with absolutely no ramifications whatsoever, and i am for stricter vetting. i think europe is a warning and a lot of americans heard this loud and clear. jason miller said this might upset those with their heads

stuck in the politically correct sand, but nothing is more important than keeping americans safe. it may not be politically correct, and i understand that, but i think americans' safety has to -- no pun intended -- trump everything else. gillian: i think extra, increased vetting is not in and of itself not politically correct. i think it's about how you present this to the american people. so i think that there was a great uproar when president-elect trump talked about a muslim ban. but if you break it down and it becomes evident that what that really means is more careful vetting, i think a lot of americans -- harris: well, it and, you know, you heard me say some because he has really pinpointed what he meant. and i think we want those criminals who are here illegally to leave and those who have become criminals since they've been here beyond being illegally and done all sorts of things. i don't think anybody would argue with that. i'm just curious, what does strict, extra, you know, deeper vetting look like? and we as americans agree to

that? kennedy: i think it gives us a false sense of security. and be when you talk about banning all muslims, what if they're wearing a cross and they say, no? what test are you posed to logically give -- supposed to logically give people? you may be keeping some people out, and, you know, 95% of them are good people. we've all had friends who have been targeted for the way they look or their last name. meghan and i have a really good friend who's a journalist who's worked in sir. >> and iraq, and he cannot get into this country. he cannot get a visa, and he's a good, hard working person, but because of where he's worked in the past and what your last name is, and it's really frustrating when you know those people personally. the people in this country are the ones who seem to be more problematic. harris: out of everybody on this couch, i don't know, maybe i'm wrong, but i think i'm probably the only one who's been racially profiled and recently. they were looking for somebody. i'm not offended if this is a legitimate search because, i mean, seriously, i live here.

i'm an american before i'm 234eug else. -- anything else. but i do think we need to come up with some parameters. i just don't know what people will be comfortable with. i'm okay with it as long as it has some structure to it. when i've been stopped and they're looking for a woman driving my kind of car, i did look like her. that's structure. kennedy: let the fbi figure it out and use warrants, i don't have a problem with that. be aware of your surroundings. i have a problem when the government's doing it, but when people are taking account who's around them, i don't have a problem with that at all. meghan: you and i rarely agree on things -- kennedy: that's not true. meghan: the question of home grown wolves will not be rectified. harris: good point. well, she may have a taste for running again, but her own party may have a flavor for something fresh and new. see the significant number of democrats who don't want hillary clinton to run for the white house again according to a key poll.

and the sons of president-elect donald trump are facing new questions about their charitable efforts and a particular fundraiser. and we will quench your thirst for more outnumbered overtime online. go to facebook.com/outnumberedfnc on facebooking and tweet, tweet little birdie when you want to. we're coming right back. ♪ ♪ all finished. umm... you wouldn't want your painter to quit part way. i think you missed a spot. so when it comes to pain relievers, why put up with just part of a day? aleve, live whole not part. painter: you want this color over the whole house?

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making a third white house run. i all this as a pew research survey shows a whopping 97% of all voters would cast the exact same vote they did on election day, including 39% -- 99% of trump voters and 96% of clinton voters. will hillary move on? i didn't even know this was something that was being thrown around. [laughter] but i was like, what are you going to do? are you going to prop her up like weekend at bernie's and just -- harris: oh, wow! meghan: like, i am so blown away at the idea anyone anywhere thinks this is a good idea. harris: is she going to promise that she'll do it for free? because you can't have a billion dollars again, and let taxpayers and supporters keep their cash in their pockets. and the last time that she decides to run, is she going to go to wisconsin and minnesota? lovely people go there. and my third is she going to be able to rewind the clock on all

the things we already know, like the e-mail server -- >> no. harris: can she hit us with a forgetful wand? gillian: especially if she's going to run against donald trump again in four years? i could see if he was coming out of office, and it was somebody else -- i'm like meghan, i thought it was beyond -- harris: this is hike when bell bottoms came back -- kennedy: i'm not a hillary clinton supporter, but i think it's just cruel. [laughter] the thought of her running and losing again and again with the recount, she lost electors -- gillian: she's been running for 20 years. kennedy: she obviously doesn't get sick of losing. harris: it's kind of sad their two best options are bernie sanders and joe biden, and they're going to both be almost as old as ruth bader ginsburg. that really is weekend at bernie's. [laughter] meghan: no, it's like an exercise in futility that democrats can't come up with anything else.

as a republican, i love it. keep running her. run all day long. run chelsea as well, see how much america loves the clintons. >> i think you should applaud her right now, because for the first time -- kennedy: because she's hiking so much in rhode island? meghan: she's taking weird selfies in the woods -- gillian: maybe she just wants to disprove donald trump's claim that she has no stamina. >> that would do it. i think the real thing that's going on here is that the clintons are desperately trying to make people think they might still be in the white house someday, because their donation at the foundation are going to dry up, and the whole operation is over if there isn't the sort of promise that one of them's going to be in the white house again. so unless it's chelsea, i guess they have to put somebody out there. harris: i just feel bad for the people in the democratic party or who are younger, with fresh ideas, who may have a dream and that dream being quashed by people like nancy pelosi who will not let go of office.

and now you have a woman, gillian said, for 20 years. what about the next generation and their hopes? look at the governor of california. kennedy: i mean, come on. and believe me, i love our golden americans more than anyone -- [laughter] but at some point you have to, at some point you have to introduce a new generation of trailblazers. meghan: suffocate them forever. and republicans are really good at this. i could point to easily a dozen new, young talent -- harris: you mean under 50. meghan: i mean under 40. harris: comparing the landscape to bernie sanders and hillary clinton and even -- yeah. gillian: time magazine asked president obama who is the next generation of leaders in the democratic party, and he named four or five people. i'd never heard of any of them. harris: is that a good sign though? where. gillian: i don't know. kennedy: the 2004 democratic national convention. harris: excellent point.

gillian: maybe he's going to make it his business once he leaves office to mentor and nurture the next generation of folks -- kennedy: yeah, he can't start a foundation, he's got to do something. harris: when he ran against hillary clinton, the nation needed new car smell. [laughter] that wasn't even subtle. meghan: straight out of luck, and i love it. president-elect donald trump making some new appointments. the two advisers he selected who could end up bringing big changes to the economy and what they say about his governing styles. plus, the trump team now weighing the role his family members will play in the white house. the optics when it comes to possible conflicts of interest and whether mr. trump has any flexibility with laws against flexibility with laws against nep tissue. nep nepotism. see me. see me to know that psoriasis is just something that i have. i'm not contagious. see me to know that... ...i won't stop until i find what works. discover cosentyx,

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harris: folk news alert -- fox news alert on president-elect donald trump's new bottoms, former -- appointments. kellyanne conway as counselor to the president. the president-elect has select add visors on trade and federal regulations. mr. trump tapped billionaire investor carl icahn as special adviser to the president on overhauling federal regulations and announced plans to create a national trade council in the white house. to lead it, economist peter navarro. both choices coming with some controversy. peter doocy is live with the news in palm beach, florida.

not a bad assignment. [laughter] talk money to me, peter. >> reporter: it's not too bad here, harris. as you just mentioned, a major part of the trump platform during the primaries and the campaign was trade, particularly renegotiating nafta and withdrawing the u.s. from the trans-pacific partnership, and now we know at least one of the major players in renegotiating these trade deals. it's dr. peter navarro, a famous critic of china who is also a uc irvine professor with a harvard ph.d.. he's going to be the new white house national trade counsel head, and he's going to advise the next president during trade negotiations while also helping him assess what's possible here manufacturing wise. how did mr. trump find out about dr. navarro, you may ask. he says, quote: i read one of peter's books on america's trade problems and was impressed by the clarity of his arguments and thoroughness of his research. mr. trump has announced who's going to help him cut red tape,

carl icahn, who gets the title of special adviser to the president on regulatory reform even though he plans to offer advice as an individual, not technically part of the government. now, some big proponents of wall street reform have expressed concern that mr. icahn is going to be offering advice to the president about how to regulate an industry he is still actively participating in, but icahn says he just thinks regulations and the paperwork that come with them take up too much time that small business owners could be using for something more productive. so he wants to free them up. during the campaign, icahn is one of the people trump mentioned most frequently as a smart money guy who was on board with the things the trump team was talking about, and now he's on board with the next administration at least in some capacity. harris? harris: peter, thank you. go grab your sun block, my friend. [laughter] see ya. all right. so carl icahn has just wrapped up a cnbc interview --men ken oh, that poor thing. harris: and you and i were reading it.

what popped to you? kennedy: his talk about epa regulations specifically having to do with oil refineries being absurd. i share his contempt for many of the epa regulations, and, you know, i think it's fantastic that he has specific partners in mind to roll back a lot of these regulations. the fact that carl icahn is specifically targeting the one that benefits him directly as the first one that he wants to tackle, that's a little bit disconcerting to people who are dubious of crony capitalism because carl icahn the billionaire, of course, owns an oil refinery. people talk a lot about donald trump and his children divesting from their businesses. they're all going to be really busy, particularly the president-elect. carl icahn has this sort of swinging title. he's going to have plenty of free time to rom back those regs -- meghan: but it's okay because he's not going to get a salary.

harris: by the way, he was asked about that, and carl icahn says he does not have specific duties but will talk to mr. trump as he has before. >> yeah. i think -- and then, of course, peter navarro is also going to raise a lot of eyebrows especially on the republican side -- gillian: because he's a democrat. kennedy: used to be. frustrated democrat. >> a lot of people, a lot of conservative republicans in washington are really worried about the issue of trade and whether donald trump is going to be a protectionist. i mean, if you listen to the way he campaigned, he could sort of fall into either category. i happen to sort of think that a guy like that is not going to be anti-trade completely, that it's somewhere in the middle. but picking peter navarro is certainly -- kennedy: what must china be thinking, r charlie? [laughter] and we've talked about the madman doctrine and whether or not trump is trying to seem like an unpredictable, crazy person. and with a pick like peter navarro who have been so vocal, is such a vocal opponent to the

chinese model of trade, that they must be going what are the next four years going to be like for us. >> i think being perceived as a man man is crucial to the art of the deal. and donald trump, obviously, operates like that. harris: so something that you said, though, hit me. resonated with me, actually, and i wonder if the american people wouldn't like it, and that's the fact that you really can't put mr. trump in a category because of his choices. >> yeah. harris: that makes him an outsider. meghan: i loved the taiwan call, as we talked about on the show with the taiwanese president, and i love that donald trump is shaking things up because i don't think we should be beholden to the geopolitical bullying of china for a long time. that being said, this guy, peter navarro, this could have real ramifications for our trade deals -- gillian: that's right. meghan: buying a tv could exponentially rise in cost, just evidence things. so i have a -- everyday things. i have a lot of questions, and i think the american public --

harris: so here's the overarching question: are you willing to take a risk on something fresh and few that you can't necessarily categorize to and see how it plays out -- meghan: i'm going to take a risk, but i've also never been one of these people under the illusion that we can somehow stop the technological revolution that a lot of these manufacturing jobs can come back. technology has progressed on, so if it means sort of denying that fact and having ramifications on the average american's bottom line, yeah, i'm going to have a problem with that. kennedy: as long as we don't start a trade war. gillian: i thought we were draining the swamp and getting rid of bureaucracy. why do we need a national trade council? be the council of economic advisers, the u.s. trade representative across the street, works hand in glove with the white house, why do we need new councils? i'm not necessarily critical of it, but why are we adding more levels of bureaucracy? harris: it's a very good

question. gillian: i don't know the answer. harris: kennedy, do you know?y:e about to ascend to power, the lure of it is so intoxicating, they can't help -- harris: i knew she'd say that. kennedy: president-elect trump's team taking a closer look at the family -- role his family may end up playing. this after reports erin -- team trump quickly putting out a statement distancing the sons from it. now meantime, his team is suggesting anti-nepotism laws include some flexibility. here's senior adviser and incoming counselor to the new president kellyanne conway. >> the anti-nepotism law apparently has an exception if you want to work in the west wing because the president is able to appoint his own staff. so, of course, this came about to stop maybe family members serving on the cabinet. >> right. >> but the president does have discretion to choose a staff of his liking.

and so if that actually is true and that legal advice holds, that will open up a realm of possibility. kennedy: former house speaker newt gingrich are also commenting in a radio interview. >> in the case of the president, he has a broad ability to organize the white house the way he wants to. we have never seen this kind of wealth in the white house. and so traditional rules don't work with. and we're going to have to think up, you know, a whole new approach. kennedy: we'll see how those nepotism laws apply and how they sit with the country. charlie, you know, nepotism law, of course, signed in 1967 because lbj hated bobby kennedy so much, he wanted revenge for jfk appointing his brother as attorney general. >> yeah. well, you know, we all knew that there were going to be all these entanglements with donald trump, and voters knew it when they voted for him.

and i expect we'll be talking about this and, you know, trying to figure all this stuff out for months going forward. i don't think it really amounts to much at the moment. what's -- what will amount to a lot is if they make mistakes going forward and those entanglements actually wind up turning into actual problems the likes of which we saw with, you know, running against the clinton foundation. if things like that start, you know, concrete things like that start happening, i think it winds up being a terrible, terrible thing -- kennedy: do you think you should have been able to run as your dad's vp candidate? you were too young, granted. way too young. meghan: no. two quick things. family are always unofficial advisers in one way or another, no matter who you are. the american public was very well aware of the trumps' role in the family. their kids were surrogates all across the campaign trail. my biggest problem with this is i don't like this feigned leftist outrage. if chelsea clinton or were

appointed to anything, i think it would with be applauded as feminism and she's the next generation of democrats, so don't aim your arrows at the trump kids -- kennedy: what about hillary clinton when she was running health care in 1993, that big push for is singer payer? harris: -- single payer. harris: that is a great idea, but the fact about chelsea, it was kind of nepotism because she was running the foundation. and now we know through some of the e-mails that there were huge questions that even the fbi investigation was having about what was going on with the foundation and what was going on with the state department and questions about quid pro quo. so kind of maybe an unintended sort of round-about nepotism with her being so heavily involved in the foundation. gillian: i think that if -- i think that if melania trump is not going to be in the white house in a sort of adviser/policy type position, that does open up a slot. i don't think that opens up five slots, meaning i don't think you can then have your daughter and her husband and their friends

and their cousins. but i do think it's appropriate for, say, ivanka trump to take over what would be the first lady's office and that role in the white house if that's what the president-elect wants. kennedy: obviously, it's a question, it's a question of trust, and, you know, a president probably feels they want people around them they can trust most. that's why jfk had his brother be his attorney general. he was unqualified for the job. what if donald trump feels jared kushner is the most qualified and trustworthy finish. gillian: and if i was stocking my own cabinet and i was going to have of a family member in a role, they would be the attorney general. that was a good move. you really want the nation's lawyer on your side. harris: how is this much different if people don't have older children, how is this much different than rahm emanuel being his adviser inside the white house and desiree rodgers running the social etiquette at the white house and having a state dinner being crashed

because she didn't know -- gillian: they're not related. harris: they're not related. gillian: that's the crucial difference. >> as you say, it's all about trust. and it's all about trust in all directions. including voters, do they trust donald trump to, you know, to handle the situation, you know, properliment and -- properly. and if he doesn't, all of those attacks that he leveled against hillary clinton and the clinton foundation and all that stuff is going to come back and bite him. kennedy: yeah. and this is the thing about politics. if you can't stand it on the other side, it's not okay for your side, and we all have to come to that mutual agreement in order for things to function better. gillian: but then what's the fun? kennedy: exactly. [laughter] president obama, he's tons of fun, and he's been known to get some fawning coverage from the mainstream media, but that apparently hasn't been enough. now in a new interview, he won't stop talking, the president says conservative outlets have vilified him during his presidency.

we will debate, we will discuss, we will return. ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ kennedy: welcome back to outnumbered. president obama blaming what he calls conservative media for creating what he says is a false picture of him and blaming its negative coverage for the drop in his poll numbers. the president telling the atlantic, quote: in 2008 i was never subjected to the kind of concentrated vilification of the whole conservative media ecosystem. if people are angry somehow the government is failing, then they are going to look to the guy who represents government, and that applies, by the way, even to some of the folks who are now trump supporters. they're responding to a fictional character named barack obama who they see on fox news or who they hear about through rush limbaugh. charlie, i've said this before i'll say it again, you're the brand new editor of the opinion

section of the washington times which some would say is editorially conservative. i feel like this president has an unnatural obsession, almost a fetish with fox news. >> yeah. and i don't think he watches it, because whatever he's watching is not what i watch. i doubt he listens to rush limbaugh either. but the guy is so spoiled x he's spoiled because he's always had this incredibly fawning coverage throughout his career even before, you know, when he was -- before he was president. and not only that, but he's going out of office with the highst numbers of any president -- kennedy: what is he talking about? his poll numbers are quite robust. his poll numbers compared to the two major party candidates this election season, there was, like, a 13-point differential at one moment, and i loved reading the interview in "rolling stone" where jan winter was so upset that hillary clinton had lost, and said when he went to the white house, it was like going to a wake.

meghan: his wife is on the cover of vogue right now. i'm sorry if i have outrage at the idea that you have funded terrorism with the iran deal, that my grandchildren are probably going to end up having serious ramifications because of obamacare. he has earned a lot of the criticism, and the idea that we're all supposed to be hacks like chris matthews talking about tingles running up our legs all day long, i find it really insulting. and i agree with you, i think he's a spoiled president who is used to nothing but fawning coverage. i'm sorry, when he leaves office, it is going to be a sad, cold, hard look at reality because a lot of americans, to put it nicely, are extremely displeased with him as president. kennedy: yeah. he's going to leave the bubble with far fewer tingles -- harris: oh, my. meghan: do you remember that? kennedy: boy, do i. [laughter] harris: this is a man who knows that parts of his legacy are never going to come to fruition like closing guantanamo bay,

unless he can get it done in the next few days, and where are -- this is a man whose name, it wasn't, it was the affordable care act, but even he calls it obamacare. his name is on something that is going to be repealed, replaced, massaged, whatever they're going to do. and then you've got the iran deal. we still don't know what are in the side deals and some of that becoming public and maybe tarnishing him even further. i think he's looking at this and saying, yes, i have huge approval ratings, but that other shoe that's about to drop is a lube on the -- lubeton, and it's going to bounce. kennedy: directly influenced by the prisoners that were swapped -- meghan: what about the largest refugee crisis since world war ii? gillian: we could do a whole show about foreign policy failures and weaknesses that nobody believes has been the strength of the obama administration. but i also think that, maybe i

take a more expansive view than some, but i actually feel like it is "the media," okay, i'm a part of that, fine, because i hate when i watch tv and all these people are like, the media does this, and you are the media. harris: some in the media jill jell it's the media's job to take on aapproach of criticism and to critique the government. i feel like that is quite literally why the media exists. so the idea that there is not going to be criticism, almost criticism for criticism's sake is a little bit of a fallacy. i think it's an integral part of our democracy. and so complaining about it is, i think, just a useless, futile thing to do. kennedy: he's almost done too. all right. but, you know, there'll be plenty of time and many books written about his policy failures. the end. a possible showdown looming, the so-called sanctuary cities continue to say they will defy president-elect donald trump

over his illegal immigration policy. will mr. trump keep his promise to strip their funding? is it legal? is it right? can he do it? we'll discuss that next. ♪ ♪ [ gears stopping ] when your pain reliever stops working, your whole day stops. try this. but just one aleve has the strength to stop pain for 12 hours. tylenol and advil can quit after 6. so live your whole day, not part... with 12 hour aleve. just serve classy snacks and bew a gracious host,iday party. no matter who shows up. do you like nuts? jennifer martinez was able to put extra moneyher mortgage, back into her home-based business. helping her do what she was destined to do...

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harris: more outnumbered in just a moment. first, though, to jenna lee with what's coming up in the second hour of "happening now." jenna: two possible home grown terror stories developing right here in the united states, we'll have the latest on that, top of the hour. plus, donald trump weighing in on the nation's nuclear deterrent, so we'll have that. and also this, we have an incredible update on a great story of one couple's dedication to their special needs child. our viewers have come through bigtime. that's also going to be thop of the hour on "happening now." harris: that's a great story. thanks, jenna.

right in time for the holidays. meghan: four weeks from tomorrow donald trump will be inaugurated as the 45th president of the united states. and a possible showdown is looming large. so-called sanctuary cities are pushing back against mr. trump's immigration policy saying theyre feds. the latest big city is los angeles. los angeles democratic mayor eric garcetti announcing that the city will set aside $10 million to fund legal assistance for illegals. half of that tab is being picked up by taxpayers. mr. trump has vowed to strip these sanctuary cities of federal funding once he takes office. so if i were a los angeles taxpayer, i would be livid right now. i don't understand what the left hasn't learned. your side lost. people want there to be ramifications for people breaking the law and entering this country illegally. >> and it's crazy, because if they want to spend their money on that, have at it. just as long as you don't spend any of my money on it, it doesn't really bother me.

this whole question about whether or not donald trump has the authority or the federal government has the authority to strip funding from these sanctuary cities, they absolutely have that authority. and not only do they have the authority to strip it going forward, there's a good argument to be made that you can strip funding from the past where they have not, where they have failed to enforce federal immigration laws. and remember, a big chunk of this money that they're talking about is money that dose to the localities, the cities or the counties directly intended to enforce immigration laws. and so for them to then take that money saying that we're going to use this to enforce immigration laws and fail and refuse to do it and announce that they're going to refuse to do it, it's a little much. and i think that a lot of places -- harris: a little much or law break egg? >> law breaking, absolutely. harris: that's like i had too much lunch. gillian: i'm not necessarily defending that practice, but i don't know that it is illegal

because i think the entire premise like l.a. when they're proposing this new $10 million fund, i think their argument is we're trying to enforce immigration laws, but part of the immigration laws is people who are facing deportation and helping those people, you know, financially. harris: so, gillian, why not do it this way? since half the money is coming from private donors and half the money coming from taxpayers, if they want to do what you say, don't have any income from taxpayers. then they can do whatever the heck they want. kennedy: absolutely. gillian: my point being when you're facing a deportation hearing, there's costs that you incur -- harris: right. so let private donors pay your bill. gillian: i don't know -- >> if california taxpayers want to pay for it, let 'em pay for it. just don't make the rest of us pay for it. meghan: what if someone is shot and killed in these sanctuary citizens?

judge napolitano was on outnumbered earlier this week, and he was talking about it. >> the president cannot force localities to do the job of the feds. the feds have to do it on their own. that's not me, that's the supreme court. sandra: but he's threatening to withhold federal funding. >> okay. he can only to that if it comes with strings attached, meaning he can't withhold federal funding that's already been budgeted, but the first trump budget, he could say to rahm emanuel, you want another million dollars for your schools? here are the strings attached. kennedy: i agree with what harris said. i think that if there is so much interest in the private sector and on behalf of these humanitarian organizations to help people fight deportation, then they should. you've got 20% chance of staying in the country if you fight without a lawyer and you go before an immigration judge. so that's why they're raising the money. and also i don't have a problem

being squeamish cutting federal funding for most things, let alone sanctuary cities. [laughter] i think we need to be bold about many of the ways we withhold this. meghan: spoken like a strong libertarian! more "outnumbered" in just a moment. muck our heart healthy idaho potatoes, america's favorite potatoes, and donating to local charities along the way. but now it's finally back home where it belongs. aw man. hey, wait up. where you goin'? here we go again.

harris: thanks to charlie hurt and gillian turner. so good to have you both here. so as the new opinion page editor of the washington times -- i just wanted to say it. [laughter]

>> i'm allowed to edit everyone's opinion. harris: oh, really? >> my kids', my wife's -- harris: wow, that's a lot of power. kennedy: hurts so good. harris: do they listen to you at home? >> yeah, totally. harris: sarcasm. i love it. we'll see you online. "happening now" now.