>> so, that's a friday, you're going to have an awesome weekend. i hope you have a great time at lambeau field. so we will get the report on that come monday, have a great weekend, everybody. "happening now" starts right no now. >> jenna: dress warm indeed, i heard it's going to be 0 degrees at lambeau field, so we have to worry about ill hammer. in the meantime, we talk today when it comes the news, as a nation's top intelligence officials getting set to brief president-elect trump on russian election meddling that we have heard so much about over the last week, welcome to "happening now" no, i'm jenna lee. >> jon: and i'm jon scott, the meeting comes after president obama received the same highly classified report accusing russia of waging a broad espionage campaign, including hacking, disinformation, and fake news named at least, in part, at helping mr. trump when the

white house. john roberts is live outside trump tower live in new york city with the latest. >> good morning to you, a big meeting coming up this afternoon, donald trump right now not in trump tower, he is in downtown manhattan, making a visit to the editorial staff at conde nast, among the people he is meeting with, grade and carter, the executive editor of "vanity fair," the two of them have not had the best relationship over the past few months, also meeting with the vogue editor, he will come back here, he has got that meeting this afternoon at 1:00 here at trump tower with the intelligence chiefs of the director of national intelligence, james clapper, as well john brennan, the cia director, james comey, the fbi director, and admiral mike rogers, who looks after the nsa. donald trump not happy about the fact that a network news organization got a copy of the classified report before he did, tweeting out last night, how did nbc get an exclusive look into the top-secret look key, obama,

was presented, who gave them this report, and why? politics! here's how kellyanne conway reacted to that earlier today, listen. >> president-elect trump has great respect for the intelligence community, we are very happy that the top intelligence officials will be here at trump tower today to give their own briefing to the president-elect. what is disappointing is having leaks in the media before we actually have a report on the alleged hacking. >> donald trump last night on twitter also expressing more skepticism about whether russia was involved in hacking the dnc writing, "the democratic national committee would not allow the fbi to study or see its computer info after it was supposedly hacked by russia, so how or why are they so sure about hacking if they never even requested an examination of the computer servers? what is going on?" james clapper and company know that they will space a skeptical audience at trump tower this afternoon, sean spicer, the incoming press secretary, said donald trump will retain an open mind about it all.

donald trump going on a tweet storm this morning about a report in several news organizations that he is breaking a campaign promise by going to congress for an appropriation to build the border wall along the border with mexico rather than having mexico pay for it. here's what trump tweeted this morning, "the dishonest media does not report that any money spent on building the great wall for sake of speed will be paid back by mexico later, and in fact." he does have the facts to back that up, listen to what he said on october 22nd and the address in gettysburg, pennsylvania. >> fully funds the construction of a wall on our southern border, don't worry about it, remember i said mexico is paying for the wall. with the full understanding that the country of mexico will be reimbursing the united states for the full cost of such a wal wall. >> so he laid down a marker back in october that he would get

congress to approve the appropriation for it upfront and then get mexico to pay him back later. and just as we wrap up, back to the whole idea of russian hacking, there is an interesting tweet that some people might find ironic. wikileaks tweeted this out just a couple of minutes ago, "the obama administration/cia is a lady illegally funneling top-secret medications, intel information to nbc for political reasons before the president-elect to the united states even gets to read them." some might think that it's a little ironic for wikileaks to be complaining about leaking, but that is the world we live in. >> jon: that is the world we live in, john roberts at trump tower, thank you. >> jenna: republican lawmakers are getting ready to repeal obamacare, but it's not clear yet how they will replace it. but top g.o.p. leaders say that passing another big comprehensive measure could be tough, and instead they're hoping to push a series of smaller bills to take the place of the affordable care act. house speaker paul ryan setting a rough timeline for the change changes. >> our legislating on obamacare,

our repealing and replacing and transitioning, the legislation will occur this year. what date all of this gets phased in on is something we do not know because we are waiting for the trump administration. the question there is, how long will it take for markets to put in place and markets to adjust? that question we don't know the answer to come up with a legislating on obamacare will happen this year. >> jenna: joining me now is the senate majority whip, number two, if you will, republican and the senate, happy new year to you, senator. >> thank you, jenna. >> jenna: it might be nice to ease back into work with nothing going on after a long holiday. [laughs] that is a little bit of an understatement. let's talk a little bit about health care, i understand that you just left an informal discussion, discussions are ongoing about this issue, and i'm wondering what you can tell our viewers about where you stand as far as a solution for replacing obamacare. >> a few important points, jenna, one is that obamacare is failing the american people right now today. people are seeing the premiums skyrocket, their deductible so

high that they effectively don't have the benefit of the insurance that they are mandated by as a result of federal law. and so we have said the second point is that we believe that obamacare should be repealed and replaced with health care choices that will maximize what you get to choose for yourself and your family at a price you can afford. and when the process of doing that now. i think what is confused that people is the fact that it's been six years in the making to this point, and it's going to take is a little while to make the transition, but the last point i would make is that we're not going to let anybody fall through the cracks. some of the propaganda coming out of our friends across the aisle is somehow once obamacare is repealed that there won't be any insurance. that is not true. there is going to be an orderly, careful, deliberate transition to make sure that nobody gets hurt in the process. >> jenna: why, after six years, do you not have more specific answers about how you are going to do this? >> while there are a lot of ideas that have been in the

hopper for the last six years, back during the obamacare debate, before democrats decided to do this on purely a partisan vote without any republican support, there have been a lot of very good ideas that would accomplish what i said earlier. which is to maximize the choices that you and your family get to make. >> jenna: can you give us one of them? >> well, for example, by eliminating some of the mandates which make health insurance so expensive. in other words, why should you buy insurance if you are a man for maternity coverage? it makes no sense, but yet in this mandated list of coverage, it basically makes health insurance more expensive. many people would like to be able to manage their health care costs with a catastrophic emergency policy and then have an individual savings account that they would use to pay their periodic doctor visits. so you can't do that now because

of obamacare, and so we believe in maximizing the individual choice, and the process of making it more affordable. >> jenna: the individual mandate itself at the heart of this bill is where a lot of the debate over whether or not obamacare should exist took place. we saw go to the supreme court, the supreme court ruled that yes, consumers in america can be taxed at what some called a punishment for not purchasing health care. in the solutions that you are seeing right now, do you keep the individual mandate, do republicans vote to keep the individual mandate for whatever replace that they are putting forward? >> the individual mandate was created to force people in and to penalize them for not buying insurance at the federal government said they had to buy. what we think would be better would be to repeal the individual mandate and to make health care more affordable. everybody understands that health coverage is important. we have a number of programs whether it's medicaid, medicare, veterans health care, but many people are covered by their

employer coverage, but many people, about 11 million, are in the individual market where they have to buy it on their own. obamacare makes it too expensive and many people choose to not buy insurance, knowing that under obamacare you can buy it once you get sick, which distorts the markets and makes insurance for everybody much more expensive. >> jenna: some republicans, and democrats will say this, but some are publicans are also concerns about the cost, and wondering what you do with the individual mandate because of the costs, because we are told that everybody has to be in the pool so we keep costs down. what many may not realize is that when democrats say 20 million americans are getting insurance because of obamacare, half of those americans are getting it through medicaid. and that is really causing a lot of stress on the states. so how do you get the math right in all of this? >> well right now, even under obamacare, there are about 30 million people that don't have health coverage. i thought that was the purpose

of obamacare is to get everybody access to health care, but the reason why people are buying it is they simply can't afford it in many instances they would rather pay the penalty as a result of the individual mandate. the whole structure of obamacare was skewed because it was a partisan political exercise. there was no effort really to reach across the aisle, it was done strictly with democratic votes, and president obama keeps telling people how good it is for them when they are seeing their premiums skyrocket and their deductibles so high that they effectively don't have the benefit of insurance. we could do a lot better, and we intend to. >> jenna: let me talk to you a little bit about that as we finish up. one of your colleagues referred to you as the tim duncan of the senate. for our nonbasketball fans, tim duncan of the san antonio spurs, a great basketball player, scored a lot of points, worked as a team, and that is something you have been able to do across the aisle. so can you guarantee today that the solution that publicans are

offering for obamacare, the replacement, will include support for democrats and will provide better insurance at a cheaper price potentially for all americans? >> yes, we are going to make that offer to them, and i think for a lot of reasons that they will join us eventually. they are still going through the grieving process following the election on november the eighth, denial, anger, and soon, i hope they will come to acceptance and realize the only way we get anything done around here is on a bipartisan, consensus-building basis. and many of them themselves have talked about things that they would change in the affordable care act. we are going to give them that opportunity to work with us to provide more affordable health care that isn't mandated by the federal government, but which is something that you choose for your family because it suits your needs. >> jenna: and you feel confident that whatever options you get moving forward are going to be better than the options americans have today? >> one of my colleagues said that if we can do better than obamacare than we might as well pack up and go home. so we've got a mandate, i

believe. we have made a promise to the american people, and we intend to give it. >> jenna: senator, great to have you on the program, we look forward to talking to you often about this issue and others throughout the year. >> thank you, jenna. >> jon: the labor department today releasing the final monthly jobs report of the obama presidency. business has added 156,000 jobs in december, less than what economists predicted, although wages grew substantially. the slow growth increased the unemployment rate slightly from 4.6% to 4.7%. after that solid, but unspectacular jobs report, the dow dipped earlier in the day. it is up about ten points right now. peter barnes from the fox business network joining us now live from chicago. peter. >> hey, i am here at the annual economic american economic association annual meeting this morning, just crawling with economists, and one thing they really liked in this jobs report this morning was this increase

in wages for the month of december. they were up $0.10/hour to $26 per hour, but more importantly they were up almost 3% year over year, 2.9%, and that is the fastest pace of wage growth since june of 2009. while the obama white house also welcomed that wage growth number as it gets ready to hand off stewardship of the economy to the incoming trump administration, listen. >> wages were up 2.9% over the course of 2016, that is the best year we've seen since the financial crisis. >> now if you are out looking for a job, let's take a look at some of the sectors where the hiring is strongest. education and health services once again leading the way, up 70,000 positions in december. leisure and hospitality added 24,000 new jobs in december, manufacturing had a very nice pop in december, up 17,000 jobs

after lagging for a few months. a couple of sectors losing jobs, however, were information services, computer and technology down 6,000, and construction down 3,000. we also got the report for trade for the month of november. the trade deficit for the month of november. it rose by 6.8% to 45.2 billion, mainly because of the higher value of imports of petroleum products. back to you. >> jon: peter barnes reporting from chicago, thank you. >> jenna: the opioid epidemic changing the way prescription painkillers are prescribed, why many doctors now say that harming patients. and a horrifying attack broadcast live on facebook, the four suspects in court today, the charges they are now facing. >> we were overwhelmed and surprised. we are happy that everybody is concerned

>> jenna: four suspects appearing in court today charged with the sickening attack on a mentally disabled young man. police say they used facebook live to broadcast video of this assault, the footage showing them making racial comments as they beat and threatened the 18-year-old victim. the two men, two women, now face hate crime charges as well as kidnapping and battery, those are all felonies, that in matt's life from chicago. >> jenna, a family member of this young man who was tortured, saying the family is devastated but grateful that he is alive, take a listen to the victim's brother-in-law, who says they ts should never happen again. >> we appreciate all the support from everyone. we haven't spoken to anyone, really, but each other. but we have read what is out there and we really appreciate it. and we are aware that charges are being brought against them. >> police say the young man is

at home recovering. we also learned a little bit more about the suspects charged with kidnapping and torturing a young man, one who was considered a friend of the victim who lured him into all of this. the two teen females are sisters, each has an arrest record, one charged with theft, the other with trespassing and failure to appear in court. police say the mentally challenged young man is from the suburbs unwillingly got into the van with one of the suspects and ended up tortured. back to you, jenna. >> jenna: matt, thank you very much, we will have a breaking news story about that, on time and had an that we are watching very closely. >> jon: there it is, live pictures of president-elect donald trump, just about jumped the gun there. president-elect donald trump jumping into his motorcade, he has been down in lower manhattan at the new world trade center meeting with conde nast magazine people. we expected later today that he will be getting that briefing on russian hacking in the

presidential election of 2016. so there you go, live pictures of the president-elect motorcade as it gets ready to head up to midtown manhattan and his trump tower. as we get more information about what he had to say to the people at conde nast, we will certainly bring that to you. so with yesterday's wall-to-wall coverage of top intelligence officials briefing senate lawmakers on russia's election meddling, why the networks barely covered president obama's farewell letter to americans. have you heard about it? our media panel. you don't let anything keep you sidelined.

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>> jon: right now, as top intelligence officials briefed senators on russian election meddling yesterday, the networks largely avoided mention of

president obama's farewell letter to the american people, aimed at highlighting his legacy and achievements, including this exit up to. the president writes, "over the past eight years, no foreign terrorist organization has successfully planned and executed an attack on our homeland." let's bring in our media panel, the senior editor at "national review" and author of "digging in," ellen ratner is also familiar face, a fox news contributor, welcome to both of you. >> thank you. >> jon: ellen, give us your overall sense of the president's letter. some say there is an awful lot of silver lining there, or maybe embellishment. >> well, let me tell you something. obviously he did not deal with some of the terrorist attacks that actually have happened on his watch in the united states. i think that's clear. however, the he is gone, and the news media isn't paying any attention to him. however, he also did talk about

his financial success, and remember the economy he inherited from president bush, it wasn't very good, and he actually has done a good job. so i think it's a mixed deal. and also, his letter, or it wasn't a letter, his peace in the "harvard allow review," also not noticed except by "political" and "the washington post," so the news media just isn't paying any attention to him. >> jon: let me read a little more from that exhibit that we had in the intro there. he wrote "over the past eight years, no for terrorist organization successfully planned and executed an attack on our homeland. plots have been disrupted. terrorist, like osama bin laden, have been taken off the battlefield. we have drawn down to nearly 180,000 troops in harm's way in iraq and afghanistan to just 15,000. as ellen pointed out. but he didn't mention the fort hood shooting, san bernardino, orlando, even ohio state, there were an awful lot of

ices-inspired plots that have taken place on his watch. >> yes, he was slicing it pretty fine, the letter is full of spin, i guess that has to be expected from politicians, including presidents. you notice that he said he had drawn down troops in afghanistan and iraq, which is quite true, but how is it going in those places? so this letter was defense of himself. it reminded me of a state of the union address, but encompassing all eight years. and perhaps a warm-up for his memoirs. needless to say, i am a conservative, so i disagreed with the most everything in the letter, but i didn't find it especially newsworthy. i thought it was pretty much obama boilerplate. >> jon: do you think it would have been more newsworthy had it not been for the discussion yesterday of the russian hacking and the senate briefing on that? >> that is probably so, but i think alan is right. when the new guys in town, that is who you care about. and the old guy, he is forgotten

pretty quickly, even when president. president. >> jon: he wrote about the iran nuclear arrangement, he said through diplomacy we shut down iran's nuclear weapons program. he seems pretty confident about that, although the assessment from the experts is a bit of a mixed bag on that question. >> well it is mixed, but again, it's not being covered. he can say anything he wants. if he was still president and had two years left to go, this would have gotten top-flight in most of the newspapers and certainly on the air. but people don't care. he's gone. >> jon: so you're saying that barack obama is old news? >> i'm saying unfortunately, and remember i voted for the guy, he is old news. and what president-elect trump is doing, and all the people that he is aborting and putting in his cabinet, that is today's news. and news is news, that's what

happens, it is a daily event. >> jon: kevin corke pointed out in covering this letter on special report last night, that the president was begging about job creation and so forth. but didn't point out that workforce participation is at the lowest in what, 40 or 50 years in this country? >> that is a very important fact when you talk about jobs numbers. but i must say, you put your finger on what i thought was the most interesting and should be controversial line of the entire letter. that is that through our diplomacy we have shut down, those are the words, iran's nuclear program. i'm not sure the administration has claimed that, have they? i thought that was remarkable claim. and if that is true, there ought to be celebration in the streets. there ought to be cartwheels everywhere. i rather doubt it's true, and that strikes me is going way too far. i might take back a little bit of what i said before. that is potentially newsworthy. >> jon: we'll hope that the president is right on that score, but as i said, the

experts have a lot of doubts about that question. jay and ellen, thank you. >> thank you. speak to the nationwide opioid crisis has sparked new concerns from doctors. why they say limiting medication mean some patients are getting the help they need. we have a great panel coming up on that.

>> jon: some new information on the opioid crisis in this country, and with addiction on the rise, doctors have been more

careful in writing prescriptions for pain medication. now a new nationwide survey finds some doctors are having misgivings about that. with more than a third saying the change actually hurts some patients suffer from chronic pain. joining us now, dr. joseph, chief of pain management at atria's health, dr. tiffany sizemore, internist, boyd certified cardiologist, and women's health expert, and joe shrink, and addiction expert who runs a recovering program, rebound brooklyn. thanks to each of you. doctor, i want to start with yo you, the overall feeling is that opioid addiction has gone through the roof in this country, and so the approach has been to what, to help tell doctors to stop writing prescriptions? >> thanks for having us on. so, no, i don't think that is the message. the message is to try to do a better job at understanding is

the patient that we are seeing dealing with a primary pain problem, or is it, in fact, are the waters being muddied by the fact that the patient may have a primary addiction disorder, and that sometimes is harder than it may seem to sort out, but we don't, as for just hints, we don't want to be contributing to a national health crisis that we are seeing all around us. >> jon: obviously not, what you are quoted as saying that regulations won't solve the addiction problem. >> well i think the problem is that there is a tremendous issue of addiction in the united states. when so i don't think these regulations will be the only answer. that there has to be a multi-faceted approach to try to help this crisis in the united states. one aspect of that is to try not to have an excessive amount of prescription drugs in the general population that are not being used for medical purposes,

and so that is important, but is not the whole story of what we are dealing with with this crisis. >> dr. sizemore, roughly a third of all physicians, a little bit more than that, said that they think this pull back from prescribing pain medication has actually hurts their patients, sort of prolonged the pain and misery and hurt their recoveries. do you find that in your practice? >> you know, i think the doctor is completely accurate, i think it's multi-faceted. because what we know as there has been a parallel increase in prescription doug debt drug deaths at the same time that there was an increase in the amount of time that these drugs were written. so we know the doctors are a controlling factor. but at the same time an addict is an addict, and they are going to find their fix somehow. so in my practice, i don't treat a lot of what we call chronic nonmalignant pains, because i send those patients to a pain management specialist, that is who should be managing their pain. unless you have cancer that is a malignant cancer, there are very few people who should be on

long-term pain medications. if you broke your leg five years ago you should not be on percocet still for the broken leg from five years ago. and the problem is that a lot of doctors don't want to take the time to counsel these patients and expand to them the problems that they are having. >> jon: joe, i have had a bunch of surgeries, knees and shoulders and everything else, and my physician has always prescribed one bottle or whatever of pain medication. i rarely find that i need to use the whole thing, but he is very careful about making sure that i don't just stay on these pain pills for more than a week or so. is that the solution, joe? >> well, that is part of the solution. look, the culture is flooded with pills and somebody's going to swallow them. so the over prescribing of these medications has contributed to the opioid crisis. there are safer forms of pain management, and there is also a level of entitlement among americans to never feel pain. life is painful, we can all expect to have pain.

so the idea that we should just never experience any kind of pain and we need a pill to fix that is wrong from the get-go. also, there are other forms of pain management. cannabis is a much safer form. there is no known lethal dose of it. so the opiate crisis and the overdose crisis absolutely is partially due to the over prescription of these medications, and it should be looked at. that doesn't mean that anybody should suffer. we are not looking for stage iv cancer patients or people who are in severe pain to not be able to access medications that would help them. what we are looking for is barriers to accessibility, which does help people and that does help the recovery process. >> jon: but dr. sizemore, we hear from stories about, especially family practitioners, who feel overwhelmed by the patient load first, and just the regulations of this kind of thing and their natural responses to pullback and say, listen, i'm not going to write you that prescription. >> i think that is somewhat of a

sphere response, but again that is the family practitioner or the internist responsibility to know that own boundary. again, if there is an acute injury, i don't think anybody, at least that i know, is going to have a problem prescribing 15 or 20 pills on percocet. but the problem is that when you feel that someone is trying to take advantage of you, it is your response ability as a physician and as an adult to step back and refer to an appropriate ecologist or pain management doctor. we are expected to have some level of common sense. >> jon: moderation in all things, as benjamin franklin said. we are going to have to leave the discussion there, great panel, thank you for the information. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> jenna: one of the president-elect's campaign promises was to help african-american families in poor neighborhoods. he described it as the ladder to success. why our guest says the president-elect may succeed where president obama failed. your insurance company won't replace

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>> jon: president-elect donald trump is working on laying the groundwork for many of his campaign promises, including providing great education and safety to struggling african-american families in poor neighborhoods. so can he make good on that promise? our next guest says he can. writing an op-ed for "the wall street journal" that reads in part, conventional wisdom now holds up donald trump's president because he identified the angry white counterparts of black voters who have watched the world pass them by election after election. maybe black voters are angry too, and may be donald trump, of

all people, they will get some political respect that matters. the deputy are editorial page editor for "the wall street journal" ," normally i wouldn't see the direct connection between a billionaire who lives in a midtown penthouse, who is white, by the way, and black voters. but you say that donald trump might be able to deliver. >> well donald trump has been known to surprise people. and you know, in every presidential election, the black vote and the plight of inner-city black americans comes up, and everyone commits themselves to doing something about it. and then, one way or another in the next four years, not much happens. and four years later, those people end up living in the same violent neighbors going to the same poor schools with dim economic prospects. and i think this time it is going to be different with donald trump. and i think the reason for that is, he would go into black neighborhoods. i remember when he went to a charter school in cleveland, ohio, sat down with those kids,

gave a quiet speech to a very small audience, at which he said these things. i think the ladder of success means a good job, a good education, and safety in your neighborhoods. he didn't have to do that, the trump campaign was targeting lower-middle-class white voters. there was no prospect of him getting the black vote, but he continued to do it. i think his commitment is real. >> jon: what about the cabinet picks that he's made so far? who among those picks suggest to you that this is a serious concern of his? >> betsy devos at education, and ben carson at housing and urban development. certainly, the main thing he has to do is lift the economy if there is any hope of economic aspirations in those cities. but you know, economic growth has passed by the inner cities before. black people have seen growth come and go. what they really need are better schools, and betsy devos, the education secretary, is going to push both choice and charters as

competition to the public schools in a way that barack obama never did. he never really got behind those ideas, and while education is a local responsibility, i think the president and betsy devos can put their moral authority behind those movements at the local level. ben carson, i don't believe, is going to be just about subsidized housing. his mandate and mission will be to go into those cities, talk about the structure of black life, just as he did in the primaries. and i think between the two of them, you're going to see a focused effort to do something about places like baltimore, chicago, east st. louis. >> jon: so you mentioned barack obama, and this is our nation's first black president. but you say that the black american experience is not substantially lifted, despite his eight years in the white house. >> no, and if you look at the reporting on it, like americans living in places like that are disappointed. they were expecting something more. and i think a great part of it is the fact that there has been

such a weak economy the last eight years under barack obama. we just had the jobs report today, a mere 156,000 new jobs. so the economy has not been turning over, and it is certainly not reaching down into inner-city neighborhoods of the sort that barack obama promised he was going to do something about. he hasn't delivered. >> jon: it will be fascinating to see what the next four years bring. thank you. >> jenna: president-elect trump is about to be briefed on russian interference in our election, why mr. trump may be right to be skeptical, as the intelligence community findings. when a former white hack hacker joins us next with his take on the whole thing. plus ice swimming is another thing. how these british souls are able to last nearly one half hour in frigid water for world championship status. that is ahead. ♪ with directv and at&t,

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depending on you needs and your budget. so if you're turning 65 soon, call now and get started. because the time to think about tomorrow...is today. go long. >> jon: "outnumbered" comes her way in 10 minutes, sandra and harris, what you have? >> it is a big friday and a big showdown looming at trump tower here in new york, where the nation's intelligence chiefs will brief president-elect donald trump in russia's meddling in the election. the very findings he has been mocking, will they get him to take changes tune? >> and vice president biden telling mr. trump to grow up and stop tweeting. but is he want to talk? just months after suggesting he would like to beat up the president-elect? >> all that plus our #oneluckyguy, "outnumbered" at the top of the hour. >> jenna: right now a senior

fbi official responding to an earlier report this week that the fbi never got a hold of the dnc server, and their investigation of the russian hacking. this official tells our very own that it's not that the fbi didn't want to see the server, but that the dnc denied it access. catherine will have more on that. in the meantime, this will be as we await a highly anticipated meeting between america's top intelligence officials and russia's interference in the election. in the meantime you have the former cia director, leon panetta, weighing in this morning on the recent development, urging a strong u.s. response. >> when we know that these attacks have gone on, and that the russians are behind it, then it is extremely important for the united states of america to take action against of that happening. because if we don't, then we are literally saying that it's okay to attack our country, it's okay to conduct espionage against our country, and you don't have to

pay any price. >> jenna: the ceo of the security firm that employs hackers for good. he is a former white hat hacker himself, he worked for the nsa, also a united states marine. david, great to have you and your insight. let's go with the first report. this really can't my attention this week, catherine already doing some great reporting on it. that the fbi never got a hold of the server from the dnc when they were investigating the whole hacking. what impact does that have if the fbi never had the server? >> what we do know that the dnc engaged in a third-party firm to do a forensic analysis, and we do commonly see when the fbi gets involved in certain hacking-related instances, where they will rely on third parties to do the analysis at a time. but it is unusual from such a high-profile perspective that they wouldn't have access to the servers to do an analysis, to be able to see all the evidence and to be able to make a conclusion. so it is a bit unusual, but we

do see in a lot of cases where when the fbi's involved in certain investigations they will rely on third parties to do a lot of this. >> jenna: why is that? >> a few reasons, one i think the fbi is understaffed when it comes to being able to handle a lot of these cases. but they do have a lot of brave folks, and when it comes to the dnc hacks, i'm sure all those great folks would have been on that, so that is the unusual part. some assume that you would have a lot of forensic investigators, people within the fbi, doing a lot of the analysis are not necessarily having a third-party, but that didn't happen in this case for some reason. >> jenna: we will leave at there and gather some more information to figure out what is happening with the investigation. from your perspective, knowing what you know having worked in the government, what strikes you is notable, just about this whole story and how it has been presented to the public about russia's interference in our election? >> jenna, i want to be clear to the american people and the people that are watching the news and that her hearing all of this, that the election system was not hacked. there has been no accusations, there has been no evidence at

the actual voting machines themselves have been hacked or that there was a vote changed. the concern is that the dnc, the national committee, was hacked, and john podesta's email was hacked, and information from that was released, and they are contributing that back to russia. there seems to be a lot of internal intelligence that it points to russia. so the question is that does hacking the dnc and is hacking john podesta's email and releasing information resulted in what we are hearing now coming from the political side, which is hey, we should go to war from the, to quote john mccain, we shouldn't set stand still and let these actions have been from other folks. what's interesting is that everybody hacks each other, china had access, we had a crush all the time, and there has been information leaked already from the intelligence report that president obama was briefed in yesterday that we, that the reason why we are able to get the intelligence to know that russia hacked us was from computer systems that we had already hacked before and had been monitoring, and monitoring

communications of politicians within russia. so this has kind of been the wild wild west for a long time, and there has been no ramifications for actually hacking into other countries before in the past. >> jenna: let me just stop you there for a moment, because we are being presented this. obviously it is a big deal. we don't want other nations hacking us at all. >> absolutely not. >> jenna: but in some ways we are being presented that this is highly unusual, it is never happened, that a foreign entity is trying to mess with us. but from what you are saying, they are tried to mess with us all the time. >> a good example is a few years ago, you may remember that the united states hacked iran, and their nuclear program, and that was a campaign that we launched an offensive against another country to stop their nuclear capabilities. conversely, iran has hacked our electric grid, and there are reports coming back from 2014-2015, and now we have remove sanctions and have treaties with them. so the hacking happens all the time. china is one of the strongest importers of trade, and they

hack us all the time and steal intellectual property to produce cheaper products. this is the wild west, everybody is doing this right now. the concern is that when does it stop? >> let me ask you a final quick question. what do you want to know question rick you have seen all the information so far about the russian hacking. what answer do you want today on it? >> well first there has been no evidence provided, there was a report released that had no detail whatsoever, so we would like to see some evidence in the security industry to point back where they are actually getting the evidence to point that it was china. second, the world leaders need to sit down and say one of the ramifications for hacking each other? we use it for intelligence, military preparedness, is that acceptable anymore? we are not having those discussions. >> jenna: we have retaliation and we don't know where it is going to go. we will watch for a news coming out of the meeting with donald trump, in the meantime, david, great to have your expertise. thank you. >> appreciate it, thank you. we do we will be more back with more "happening now" ."

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>> jon: that president-elect trump briefing from the national security people is supposed to be getting underway soon, we will have an update on that in our second hour. >> jenna: there will be some great headlines and tweets from that meeting. >> jon: see you back in an hour. >> jenna: "outnumbered" starts right now. >> fox news alert, the potential showdown looming at trump tower, the nation's top intelligence officials this afternoon will present to president-elect donald trump classified evidence they say shows without a doubt that russia was behind the hacking of america's election. this has mr. trump has continued to express doubts about their findings. this is "outnumbered," i'm sandra smith coming here today is harris faulkner, cohost of "after the bell" on fox business, melissa francis, also from fox business, dagen mcdowell is here, and today's #oneluckyguy, we welcome back the cohost of "the five," juan williams is here, and he is outnumbered. >> juan: nice to be here, i am one lucky guy. because today is