explain it how? you would take yourself out of the investigation? >> if you leave it within the justice department, you will still have critics. democrats say they won't stop short of getting someone who is independent. >> we have to run, "happening now" starts now. ♪ >> jon: continuing our coverage of epic story of the day, trump administration bases mounting criticism this hour after reports that the attorney general, jeff sessions, met twice with the russian ambassador to the united nations, i'm sorry, to the united states, after the presidential campaign. >> jenna: the story is developing, and moving very quickly. we'll get you caught up with where we are right now. attorney general sessions did not disclose as conversations during a congressional hearing and now some republicans are

calling for the attorney general to clarify his testimony. several democrats are also calling on sessions to resign, but here we are. john roberts is live on the north lawn with more for us. >> one of the immediate problems for this white house is that the president has a big speech this afternoon aboard the uss gerald ford. nobody is talking about his speech today, everybody's talking about what's going to happen with senator jeff sessions. the doj acknowledging that while he was a senator, he did meet twice with the russian ambassador to the united states. one was a private meeting in his office on september 8th, the other was a chance encounter on the sidelines at the republican national convention back in july at a heritage foundation event.

he met with him not as a campaign official. and a statement earlier today, jeff sessions said "i have never met with any russian official to discuss the issues of the campaign. i have no idea what this allegation is about. it is false." some democrats are calling on sessions to resign, others are saying he has to recuse himself from the department of justice investigation into russia and its involvement in the campaign. on that point, the democrats are getting support from republican jason chaffetz, listen to what he just said a short time ago. >> i think the attorney general should further clarify his testimony and i think you should recuse himself. >> on the other hand, he says there's no reason for the attorney general to recuse himself from overseeing that investigation. it listen to it sean spicer told

abby huntsman a short time ago. >> there's nothing to recuse himself, he was 100% straight with the committee and i think people are choosing to play partisan politics and they should be ashamed of themselves. >> the message that sessions should not recuse himself in the investigation, according to spicer, comes straight from president trump. regrets on the other hand are calling for a special prosecutor to look into all of this. it chuck schumer said that if sessions do not agree to appoint a special prosecutor, then congress should reinstitute the office of the independent counsel. you might remember back to the 1990s, that office gave rise to the ken starr investigation. jenna, i don't think the republicans are going to want to reauthorize that act, but we'll see where this goes, because there is mounting pressure for a special prosecutor to be appointed here.

>> jenna: as you mention, where does this story go? is it with us for a few days or a few years? >> here's the thing with these stories, they start small and it suddenly become bigger than you could ever imagine. the white house needs to be prepared for that. >> jenna: again, we are not even at noon, eastern time. john, thank you very much. >> jon: let's bring byron york into the discussion. and amy stoddard. it may be, let's stab at the question john roberts just raised, how big an issue is thi this? >> as he said, these things can start off small, but the revelations that seem to be coming get bigger. that seems to be the problem. this is a significant revelation where you -- forget everything you've heard from democratic leaders calling for a resignation. it listen to republicans, listen to senator portman, people who

are being asked the following question, did anyone know that sessions met with the russian ambassador? did sessions lie to trump and the chief of staff? at what point did sessions realize? he was asked to the same questions and given different answers. he could correct the record and say i met with ambassadors in my role as a senator in several different meetings. he is the only one and a committee that ever did.

these are the questions republicans on capitol hill don't want to answer. there backed into a corner, they are scared it's going to be getting bigger and they don't want to deal with that. >> jon: nancy pelosi is calling on senator sessions to redesign saying he perjured himself. jason chaffetz said "attorney general sessions should clarify his testimony and recuse himself." let's take you back to that exchange he had january 10th that he had with al franken during his confirmation hearings when he was asked about contacts between the trump campaign and the russians. >> if there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the trump campaign communicated with the russian government in the course

of this campaign, what will you do? >> senator franken, i'm not aware of any of those activitie activities. i have been called a surrogate at a time or two, and i did not have communication with the russians. i'm unable to comment. >> jon: byron, if attorney general sessions is to be believed, he says that he did have contact, but it was in his role as united states senator, and not as a campaign representative or surrogate for the trump campaign. those that pass muster? >> that's what he says and he can say more. it wasn't a secret meeting that he had in his office. on these calls for recusal, that may, indeed, happen. there is a principal but you can't investigate yourself, and

sessions oversees the fbi who is playing a huge role in this and the whole justice department. three crews all calls may end up being successful. different story for these calls for a special prosecutor. those goals and crazy directions sometimes. there may be absolutely no lawbreaking here, then they focus on process crimes, perjury, or making false statements, and then they go all over the place. they end up in a very mottled way. just look at the cia leak investigation during the george w. bush years which was a special prosecutor. not sure that's exactly what democrats want, they may be smarter to keep those in the political realm and to keep pressure on the trump administration. >> jon: the attorney general himself appeared on another morning program this morning and spoke a little bit about this. he says he is not guilty. >> well, i have never met with

any russians at any time to discuss any political campaign and those remarks are unbelievable to me. i don't have anything else to say about that. thank you. i've said that whenever it's appropriate, i will recuse myself. >> jon: he says he will recuse himself of it's appropriate. is that called for here? >> "the wall street journal" supporting of the fbi is investing their own attorney general. it sounds, especially since the names i mentioned, among republicans who are leaders on these issues or seasoned lawmakers from congress, they determine that this is grounds for recusal, it sounds like byron is right, it sounds like it might still happen. again, his comments this morning still don't answer the question of why he didn't feel compelled

to mention that he met with ambassadors in his role as a senator, and that's not to be confused with his role in a campaign. this is the third occasion where he doesn't distinguish between the two. he doesn't say of course, i met with these people. that has nothing to do with the campaign. he leaves more questions unanswered. i returned to my initial point. making it very, very awkward and politically difficult for republicans on the hill who know this russia investigation is not goingy. >> jon: and also is confusing to the folks at home will hear a little bit of this and a little bit of that. it kind of all starts to smell at some point, doesn't it? >> the big issue about this is what's at the core of this? who did something wrong if anything wrong was done?

did anybody involved in the trump campaign collude with the russians to somehow interfere with the election on trump's behalf? >> jon: that's with the fbi is looking into, right? >> yes it is, it's absolutely what they're looking into. we, the public, have no knowledge about that. we don't know anything about if that is true or not. we know michael flynn talk to a russian ambassador. that's not a problem, even if they talked about sanctions. at this jeff sessions thing, he can clarify his comments to the senate, but the core issue, did somebody in the trump campaign collude with the russians to weigh in on behalf of trump in the election? that's a huge question and we don't really know anything, the public, about the answer. >> jon: we will be digging for more obviously in the days ahead. byron york, a.b. stoddard, thank you both. >> jenna: new developments in

the assassination of kim jong-un's brother. the suspects have been returned to north korea. what are the steps behind that? plus, the pressure mounting against senator sessions. our guest next says the whole thing could spell trouble with the president. we'll get that stomach to that after the break try succulent new lobster mix & match or see how sweet a lobster lover's dream can be. there's something for everyone and everyone's invited. so come in soon.

>> jon: new information on the murder of kim jong-un's half-brother who was poisoned at an airport last month. now malaysia is getting ready to release one of the suck specs. malaysia's attorney general says he will be freed for lack of evidence connecting him to the attack on kim jong-nam.

the country also scrapping visa free travel. all this amid growing speculation of the north korean regime had kim jong-un's half-brother murdered. meanwhile, the two female suspects caught on security footage of the airport were charged with murder, both claimed they were duped into thinking they were taking part in a harmless prank. they both face the death penalty if convicted. ♪ >> jenna: attorney general jeff sessions is an pressure over his contacts with the russian ambassador with the u.s. during a presidential campaign. senator sessions at this time did not disclose his meetings at the confidential congressional. as government attorneys at the white house preserve any records relating to russians. joining us now, judge andrew of home. i feel like we need to take deep

breath. there's a lot going on. on this particular story regarding attorney general jeff sessions, what's your take on it? what's your legal opinion here? >> my legal opinion is before anybody can be charged with perjury, the court has to exclude all nonlying interpretations, and i think a very rational interpretation of the q and a between senator franken and then senator sessions was that senator sessions was thinking he was being asked have you spoken to the russian ambassador about the campaign, to which he said no. he wasn't asked if he ever spoke to the russian ambassador about anything, because he had another job, which apparently there is often contact with members of that committee and ambassadors.

>> jenna: he came out today in a meeting saying he had meetings with 25 different ambassadors. he said the ambassador came up and talked to him at an event, it wasn't necessarily a malicious act. >> some democrats are saying, he should have known that it was a broad question and he should have said yes, i spoke to the ambassador about this, but it wasn't about the campaign. the issue that is front and center this morning is the following. the fbi has been investigating the trump campaign for a couple of months, even after donald trump became the president of the united states, starting before hand, did determine whether or not there is any involvement by the russians in the campaign or any effort by the russians to influence the outcome of the elections. if jeff sessions was a part of that campaign, and it appears he

was, he can't really be the boss of the fbi while they investigate it. >> jenna: sounds like you're saying that it should be considered that he will recuse himself. >> recusal is not a mark of shame, it's a mark of doing the right thing ethically so that not only is there no impropriety, there isn't even the appearance of impropriety. it also means that a decision will be made by the number two person on the justice department. it gets a little dicey here, because president trump has nominated his choice for the number two person in the justice department, and his confirmation hearings are next week. right now, the number two person in the justice department also a choice of president trump, is a career justice department prosecutor, he will be making decisions until the number two is actually confirmed. >> jenna: that brings the question of whether or not a mark in public and trusting investigation is taking place right now. >> i think the american public can trust jeff sessions, but i think they have more trust in

this if the person who is arguably involved in the campaign was not involved in the investigation of the campaign. >> jenna: let's put this in context as well. is not just the last 24 hours, this story about russia's "meddling" has been ongoing for weeks. we've seen the leaks back and forth about the investigation. the latest being that the white house apparently had a conversation with the fbi, the fbi saying there is no there there, this is the leading story until donald trump addressed the congress. suddenly, there is more leaks yet again, so we are seeing this trickle of information. >> and the president railed against the press, you can understand his anger. there are two categories of leaks. one are leaks of national secrets. leaks from the intelligence

community. those are intended to embarrass, humiliate, or manipulative the president. they do it by revealing, they also do it by concealing, by not telling their bosses and ultimately the president everything he needs to know to make national security secrets. those are crimes and those are being investigated by the fbi. the other series of leaks are leaks from within the white house that our oval office gossip. those are pains in the neck, but they're not crimes. the gossip is being investigated by the white house legal counsel. the intelligence community leaks are being investigated by the fbi. all these leaks are being reported in the press, they all end. the man in the oval office. >> jenna: i think it's important to underscore that we don't have any facts of wrongdoing yet. we'll see what facts come out. >> we are free to discuss it and free to ask questions.

>> jenna: it sir thank you. >> jon: there's new action in response to the rise and anti-semitic attacks. then a part of homeland security and what they are doing now. we are allied with an update ♪

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>> jon: right now, the department of homeland security is working with jewish groups across the u.s. after a rise in anti-semitic attacks, including bomb threats to jewish community centers and vandalism at jewish cemeteries. laura ingalls is following the story from our new york city newsroom. >> we've heard from john kelly, he's ready to offer and train members to handle bomb threats and active shooters. there are multiple waves of bomb threats called in to jewish day

schools, community centers, and offices across the country since january, all were hoaxes. secretary kelly says that they will work with jewish communities in a variety of way ways. "dhs has protective security advisors in all 50 states who serve as liaisons to government, industry, and community leaders. they will provide protective measures, threat reporting, and security awareness." >> recent threats targeting jewish community centers and vandalism of jewish cemeteries, as well as last week's shooting in kansas city, remind us that while he may be a nation divided on policies, we are a country that stands united in condemning hate and evil and all of its very ugly forums. [applause]

speak of the dhs secretary says community centers can take this training. over the past 18 months, dhs has conducted workshops in california, new jersey, and california. as federal officials work to assist these communities, they are also taking proactive steps to come up with ways to protect people and prevent these incidents. >> jon: laura ingle, thank you. >> jenna: president trump taking aim at feeding millions of americans. has possible plans for streamlining a popular entitlement, plus, they bask in the glow after a well-received address to congress. putting his plan to action on capitol hill begins. big plans. so when i found out

medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, it could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. call now to request your free decision guide. i've been with my doctor for 12 years. now i know i'll be able to stick with him. [ male announcer ] you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. plus, there are no networks, and virtually no referrals needed. see why millions of people have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp. don't wait. call now.

so we sent that sample i doff to ancestry. i was from ethnically.

my ancestry dna results are that i am 26% nigerian. i am just trying to learn as much as i can about my culture. i put the gele on my head and i looked into the mirror and i was trying not to cry. because it's a hat, but it's like the most important hat i've ever owned. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com. >> jon: in addition to food stamps, president trump also made reference to these major agenda items during his address to congress the other night. >> real and positive immigration reform as possible. if we are guided by the wealthy american citizens, than i believe republicans and democrats can work together to achieve an outcome that has eluded our country for decades. i am also calling on this congress to repeal and replace

obamacare. [applause] with reforms that expanded choice, increase access, lower costs, and at the same time, provide better health care. crumbling infrastructure will be replaced with new roads, bridges, tunnels, airports, and railways, streaming across our very, very beautiful land. >> jon: let's talk about all of this with karl rove, former senior advisor and deputy of chief to george w. bush. joe trippi, campaign manager, both are fox news contributors. what do you think about this list, a pretty similar list? >> as i wrote in my "wall street journal": this morning, it's one thing if he wants to increase military spending by cutting domestic

spending, democrats are going to go for the second half of that. it's another thing when he comes out and says i want a trillion dollars on infrastructure, paid for by private and public capital. will the republicans all be in favor, i'm not sure how enthusiastic they will be about adding the deficit by having public capital added into that mix. >> jon: joe, i hope you can hold on for an answer. we want to take you to the weekly news address from sean spicer. >> on behalf of every republican and every democrat in congress, on behalf of the whole house, i want our friends in the community to know that we stand with them, we stand with you. we may stand, we've got to stand to root out this enablement wherever it may surface. these are disgusting acts of violence and vandalism and they must be rejected.

questions? [inaudible question] >> first, i will refer to the judiciary committee. i checked the transcripts and all of that, so i can't speak to what the judiciary transcript, i haven't read that. i think he answered that question this morning, which is if he himself is a subject of an investigation, of course he would. if he is not, i don't see any purpose to do this. let's take a step back for a second here. number one, we know that russia tried to meddle in the election. why do we know this? because we, and congress and the intelligence community, did an investigation which discovered russia was trying to meddle in the election. this is something we all will know. here's another thing, we have seen no evidence from any of these ongoing investigations that anybody in the trunk campaign or the trump team was involved in any of this.

we've been presented with no evidence that an american was included with the russians to metal the elections. this is something we also know. we are still doing elections. the intelligence communities have been investigating this and did an investigation and gave us the results of that investigation before the inauguration. at the house intelligence community just finished coming up with its oversight plan to continue investigations. we will always make sure that we are protecting our sources and getting to the bottom of any of these things. but we have seen no evidence, been presented with no evidence that anybody on the trunk campaign or an american was involved with the russians. [inaudible question]

>> jon: it appears that for the moment, we have lost the connection to the speaker's office where paul ryan is conducting his weekly press conference, looks like it's back on. >> by the way, we want to make sure we leave no stone unturned and that's why our intelligence committees aren't conducting these investigations. you have protect your sources and methods of intelligence gathering. >> is that what you think the democrats are doing? >> i'm not going to speak to their motives, but all i can tell you, as you know this as well, they did an investigation, many of us went down and got the briefings after the election, before the inauguration and never have we ever seen any evidence presented to us that an american or person in the trump campaign was involved or working

with the russians. [inaudible question] >> i would have to defer to senate on that one. we are passing for that bell here in the house, whether or not they can take it up or do something with it, it's more of a senate question. for senator mcconnell, his problem is calendar. it takes a lot longer to do things over there than it does us, so he's got to manage his calendar. whether or not the ghost separately or is added, that's something you'll have to ask the senate. we're moving it, so you already know we are moving our bill. will he have 11 bills moving? no. we don't have the time for that as well, so we're going with a defense first. we think defense is important. the reason we think we need to move defense as quickly as

possible is a continued resolution is uniquely bad for the military. they have to buy exactly what they bought last year this year, that's on how the military operates, whether it's munitions, with its supplies, they need to be able to customize what they need, whether its supplies, ammunitions, bullets, missiles, you name it. let's go to somebody in the bac back. [inaudible question] >> sure, obviously, we meet with ambassadors all the time. i've had a reception about a hundred yards that way with

ambassadors last year. i don't remember which ones i met with, took pictures with. it's really common for members of congress to meet with ambassadors. i met with the indian ambassador yesterday, that kind of thing happens all the time. as to the rest of it, i would say refer to jeff sessions and the judiciary committee. [inaudible question] >> you mean don't have criminal backgrounds, right. [inaudible question] >> sure. no, i think there's always a

role for congress under every instance and every administration to conduct oversight of the executive branch and how they perform in all these cases. i can tell you this, the priority of a trump administration, and we have spoken with secretary kelly a couple days ago about this, to secure the border and deport criminal aliens, people who have, people who are here illegally who are violent criminals. that's the goal. you saw this kind of thing happening in the administration as well. sometimes, people slip to the cracks, but the priority and the goal is to not go out there and deport dreamers. the priority and the goal is to secure the border and deport people who are violent criminals who are making our communities less safe. >> if there really is a there there, why not -- >> first of all, we don't have that law.

second of all, my own view is you have a check the sources and the methods of our intelligence capabilities, especially with adversaries like russia. that is why the community stomach committee of jurisdiction should be the intelligence committee. just so you know, they've been doing an investigation for some time now. they just recently added more scope to that investigation on a bipartisan basis. so you have the ranking member, the chairman agreed to the scope of an investigation going forward, that is exactly where from the congress standpoint, that investigation should occur, because we member, at the end of the day, we have to protect our intelligence assets. we do not want to compromise our sources and our methods of getting intelligence from any adversary, let alone russia. we don't even have the law. go ahead. who are you? from where?

okay. [inaudible question] >> sure. leaking information is a crime, and if we have evidence that someone is leaking, we should prosecute that person. [inaudible question]

>> let me give you a quick refresher on history. we have been running on repealing and replacing obamacare since 2010. in 2016, the house in a bottom-up way, set a working group together, the commerce committee, any other member of congress who cares about this issue, participated in a working group to come up with a plan for what we will replace obamacare with. much of it was modeled off the tom price legislation, which we conservatives have always seen as the golden standard for replacing obamacare. he's not a secretary of hhs. that is the plan we ran on and 2016. we told america, here is our vision for how we replace obamacare after repeal obamacar obamacare. that's the bill were working on right now. we're all working off the same -- >> jon: the speaker of the house wrapping up his weekly

news conference, including some statements about jeff sessions, the attorney general, who has taken heat this morning. we will continue our conversation with joe trippi and karl rove when you're back in just a moment worrying about your big... about the client dinner. you gonna wear? hannah.

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>> jon: back with some thoughts about president trump's address to congress on tuesday night. he called for a lot of standing on a lot of issues, saying the nation will be gleaning with new roads, airports, bridges, that kind of thing. question is, how do you pay for it? let's talk about it with karl rove and joe trippi. we were interrupted by the speaker of the houses weekly news conference, joe, didn't get a chance for your take on all this infrastructure spending that the president says he wants. will democrats be on board with that? >> it depends on how they try to do it, but no, i don't think so.

i think carl put it right before we broke away, a lot of this is going to come down to can trump and the administration hold votes in the u.s. senate within its own party and within the house, and i think -- on obamacare, for sure, he's going to have to do with just republicans. i'm not sure even that they could find agreement among that system of caucus there. when you get to other things, like the spending, the deficit costs, they are not going to go for this spending, with any kind of component to the public or private part. i think this is really going to be a problem. i don't think he has any votes in the house with democrats in the house or the senate right

now. it's precarious now with 52 there. >> jon: medicare, medicaid, and a social security, you were there when george w. bush tried to increase government spending and it was shut down. it does president trump have a chance to try and nibble at some of those things and come up with a way to pay for some of these projects? >> every president has an opportunity to deal with reform. these programs that we made promises we can't keep. president trump was very clear during the course of the campaign that he wasn't going to touch social security or medicare or any of the entitlement programs, which is very problematic, because two-thirds of our budget are entitlement programs, automatic spenders and interest payments and less than a third of the budget are discretionary

add-ons, the military and domestic spending that are at the beck and call of congress. you're not going to be able to solve the deficit. people who are experts so you can't solve that problem of the deficit without reforming entitlements, particularly in the decades ahead. >> jon: will have to leave it there, gentle men. i appreciate your being here today. karl rove and joe trippi. >> jenna: new air strikes against yemen overnight. terrorists inside yemen may have helped provide intelligence for our military stomach latest military action. without more on that next when it comes to medicare,

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>> jenna: new information now on a u.s. air strike inside yemen overnight. the pentagon saying more than 20 air strikes targeting al qaeda militants, marking the first military action in yemen since a navy seal was killed there a little more than a month ago. u.s. officials telling us -- "likely provided information leading to the air strike overnight." joining us now, gillian turner. in all the back and forth, i think one thing is getting lost, and that is al qaeda is one of the most dangerous, if not the most dangerous branch of al qaeda. what is at stake in our fight against a q? >> you are right, it is the most lethal branch of al qaeda today. it has expanded its influence

and it is a major threat that needs to be taken quite seriously. i think what is at stake here, what kind of intelligence we are getting from these raids. as you know, jenna, any intelligence on on a terrorist organization or any country is sort of like a giant, unending, infinite puzzle. every time you do a write like this, ideally, you collect information that can be used to fill in the contours of that puzzle. it's highly likely that any information from those captured during the raid that resulted in the tragic death, william williams was used. >> jenna: i'm curious to your thoughts as someone who served, there seems to be, according to the reporting that we can cease, some back and forth between

former obama officials and some that are currently in governmen government, and some of the trump administration. what are your thoughts about different styles of leadership and how much of that conversation should be happening publicly? >> i think when it comes to this raid in yemen of a month ago, this kind of encapsulates the back-and-forth thing we've been seeing about the trump administration, it's a microcosm about both the issues that both sides of the aisle have. people disagree come on from the obama era disagree with everything about the way this raid was executed. i'd legibly, according to reporting, president trump made the decision to go forward with it over a dinner and set up a meeting. >> jenna: our pentagon producer and reporter has one example of the back-and-forth.

>> it's no wonder that they're going over whether the raid was successful or not. >> jenna: thank you very much, will be right back with more with the help of the lowest taxes in decades, a talented workforce, and world-class innovations. like in plattsburgh, where the most advanced transportation is already en route. and in corning, where the future is materializing. let us help grow your company's tomorrow - today at esd.ny.gov

>> jon: we are back in an hour. >> jenna: "outnumbered" starts right now. >> meghan: attorney general jeff sessions, the white house and the justice department firing back after allegations that sessions talk to russian officials during the campaign, but did not tell the truth about it. democrats calling for sessions to step down and a growing number of republicans are urging him to clarify his testimony and recuse himself or many investigations. this is outnumbered, i meghan mccain coming here today, harris faulkner, sandra smith, rachel campos-duffy, and guy benson and your outnumbered and purple