thanks for watching us tonight, i'm bill o'reilly, the spin stops here because we're definitely looking out for you. ♪ >> tucker: welcome to "tucker carlson tonight," who does america belong to you what to mark or does it belong to the world? do those people have an obligation to assimilate into the culture already present. univision anchor jorge ramos will debate those questions in a minute. very strange days in washington, some of the strangest we have ever seen. republicans had at seven years to agree on able obamacare replacement and if they're already squabbling over a bill they just revealed yesterday.re they've done very little to implement the trumps agenda, isv that? paul ryan will explain what is going on why congress seems not to be focused, or maybe they are.e.

they're calling it day without a woman, thousands of women skipped work and participated in margins and other events they described as a feminist. the official twitter account in january trip proudly tweeted that women birth half the population. >> a day without a woman. >> we know our values and we know america doesn't function without us. >> human rights. >> when the women succeed, the world succeeds. >> tucker: our first guest is executive editor of bustle.com which shut down without women, thanks for coming on. i just heard women say women have value and market doesn't function without them. i completely agree, i think i understand that this march to be

an attempt that women have a t value impressive something that i agree with. if you want to show your impressive, should you dore something impressive, cure disease, fix the debt crisis,ld taking the day off is not impressive, anyone can do it, how does this make the point exactly? >> i think the point of this is to show the impact that women have on the economy and women have on the workplace and one of the best ways to do that thisen show what it would be like, this wasn't a day where women are sitting around twiddling their thumbs. bustle encouraged readers end the staff to take the day spending time volunteering for women and marginalized communities for women who are underprivileged, for women who are unable to strike today. we encouraged women to call their representatives, donate to causes that support women. this wasn't a day of fun. this was a day of action, it was a day of surveying women and the

needs of women in the interest of supporting women's equality.n i think all those things are very impressive. >> tucker: i can see that but if the point is to show that women are needed in the workplace and obviously they are, women ares prepared to show you're watching right now.. why not do an extra good job at work? to show your valuable? if you want to show people you couldn't live without me, than act in a way that makes them thinkco that. >> i think that protest and strikes historically have been a way to show the impact that people have as being absent, if not could devalue me as much as you should, if not good to pay me equally if you like what you sexual-harassment for in the workplace if you're not going to offer me paid leave sometimes the greatest way to show impact is to show absence. i think it's more effective than you're giving it credit for and

strikes historically have been enormously effective in showing the value of the women who who are striking. >> tucker: some have, some haven't. the ones that have a veryy specific set of demands to attend to succeed in the ones that are more fist tend not to succeed. i went to the web site in one of the things i learned is that you're supposed to avoid o shopping except at women and minority owned businesses, ifid the businesses owned by a white man, you can't shop there, you shouldn't shop there, why the hostility towards white meno why white men exactly? >> i don't necessarily hostility towards white men, i think it's about being supportive towards women and minorities, who are historically disenfranchised in this country, who are paid less and not treated it as well in the workforce, who don't have stability in the workforce, i don't think this is about punishing white men, i think it's about supporting women and people of color. >> tucker: if you're boycotting white men is obvious an attack on white men for that that's not true. if you look at household mediann income, the top three slots are

not white men, they're all people of color, number one's indians, number two is taiwanese, number three is i think filipino. white men are not making the most money in this country comes i don't know if you've checked the numbers, it's a little bitg weird to say boycot white male owned businesses when they're not the most successful, what is that about? >> i think if you look to look at the statistics it is largely white men in positions of power as far as ceos, as far as power of various businesses, and hold the majority of leadership positions, hold the majority of ceo positions for fortune 500 companies.po traditionally and historically and factually today, white men are in better positions when it comes to workplace inequality. >> tucker: that's not actually true. historically, i think that's right. i if you want to speak historically so the department of labor ranks this by ethnicity and historically it was the country settled by british settlers. if you run down the list,

english americans are number 41 for income. i'm not saying white people aren't successful, they are but it's much more complicated than that. when i do acknowledge that? >> i think we're getting point here. i think the point of today is about women's equality if were talking about where women stand in today's economy, the u.s. ise 28th best as far as gender equality goes in the world. 60th as far as gender empowerment in the world. maybe i can appeal tol your patriotism on this point. i don't want the u.s. to be 60th best in figure my want to be the best. >> tucker: it depends what the measurements are, come on. >> anything depends with the measurement are, these are fromp the world economic forum. >> tucker: what does that even mean? i'll throw one out for you is interesting. for younger women, womenen entering the workplace, a recent survey done on the hundred 50 biggest cities in the united states, 148 of them young women in their 20s made more

than their male peers. things are changing. boys graduate from high school at lower rates, from college at lower rates, and young men, unmarried and childless young men, make less in cities than comparable women. that's good, you should be happy about it. >> i think there is progress being made, i will not deny that at all. those are things that i'm excited about. >> tucker: were you aware of that? >> i was, if you look at the pew research studies, while they gender pay gap is smaller it's 93-100, it's still there. i think of nothing that's an important point is the fact that women typically encountered these reductions in their access to higher paying positions, and leadership roles at later stages their careers. >> tucker: looked at my for the bottom line, i want to get your reaction. all the women in my life and i live with four of them. they are powerful.l. the presupposition behind what you're doing is that women are weak, their victims, their put

upon by men, that's not the experience of the women who i know. >> i don't think were saying that we are weak, i think were showing our strength and it showing our strength in standinw up for women's equality in general and for women who are not lucky enough to be able to strike today and a standing up for women commits international women's day. there are 62 million girls worldwide who don't have access to education were standing up for all women.n. e i love to hear that women in your life are strong empowered women and that you respect them i think that's wonderful. but that might not be the case in all households and that certainly not the case in all countries. >> tucker: thanks for coming on tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> tucker: president trump says he remains committed to building agenda on the wall on the southern border and restricting immigration into this country. press secretary sean spicer was asked whether the assistant on the wall could imperil american security by getting an anti-american candidate elected in mexico.on here's how he replied.

>> frankly, when he discussed this with the president of mexico, there is a shared concern about drug cartels, drug trafficking, arms sales over the border. there is a shared concern for the respect of the border, because it means a lot to both sides. >> tucker: whatever you think of president trump's efforts, they may be supported by a majority of the public, a thin one, but a recent ap poll found a 52% of americans feel the risks outweigh the benefits and, arrival should be restricted accordingly. jorge ramos as an anchor for univision, he joins us tonight from miami, thanks for coming on. at an event several weeks ago in february, i want to ask you about it i'm quoting you. i'm a proud latino immigrant here in the united states. you know what exactly what isni going on here in the u.s. there are many people who do not want us to be here and want to create a wall in order to separate us. but you know what?

this is also our country. this is also our country, not theirs. it's our country. who is the us and who's that they? whose countries is it? >> it is yours, it is mine, it is ours. with a trump administration and many people's who support donald trump, they think it is their country, it is a white country, they're absolutly wrong. it is not their country, it is ours and that's precisely what i'm saying. in 2044, the white population will become a minority. it will be a minority majority country, that's precisely what i'm saying.e latinos, asians, african-americans. it is ourr country. >> tucker: let me point out that you are right, you're whiter than i am, you've got blue eyes. i don't know what you mean by white or latino. let me ask you again to explain our country, not theirs. who is they? whose country is it not?

>> many people who want to goo back to 1965 when there was a white majority. many people who believe that latinos, immigrants, refugees who shouldn't be here. that's exactly who i'm referring to. >> tucker: is not of their country? it doesn't belong to those people? >> it's also their country but it is not only their country, you have to understand that this is a multicultural, multiracial country.ohi we have to live and be tolerant that's exactly what i'm saying. >> tucker: i agree with that. i don't want to bring this to race, you did it so i'm go to follow-up on that. you posit yourself as ara leader of latinos but i'm not sure what that word means. latinos seem to encompass i don't know german, guatemalans and italian-aregentines and afro cubans and nonspanish-speaking peruvians. and blue-eyed rich mexicans like you. what do those groups have ine common? >> what we have in common is mostly that we come from a region in the world latin

america, there are many differences, many people call them latinos, many people call them hispanics. we tend to speak more spanish at home than others, in contrast with what happened italians or europeans before us. in other words, it's a kind of immigration that has an instinct characteristics that others didn't have before. >> tucker: what is distinct? just to be totally clear, if i am a nonspanish-speaking brazilian, i speak portuguese, nonspanish-speaking peruvian. i'm 100% german, but i live in guatemala and there are a lot of them there, and italian people in argentina, a lot of african -- latin american cubans. what do they have in common? a lot of them don't like each other. very different cultures i don't understand whether under one heading. >> it's simply matter of country of origin for you or your

family. again, most of us speak spanish, most of us come from latin america, about half of the latino population, they mostly have to do with your country of origin. >> tucker: it doesn't make any sense to me at all but it makes a lot of sense because it allows people like you to say i represent everybody on an entire continent when clearly that's not true. our conversation continues in just a minute, there's a lot more ahead to. plus the big push to repeal obamacare began in two days ago it's already in trouble. a if will talk to speaker of the house paul ryan to see if the republican party's plan can be saved and whether congress plans to act on the rest of president trump's agenda. also one guest who said women's marches and others like them expose american liberals as exhausted, more about genitaliao than human freedom. just ahead.

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that's over 6 times faster than slow internet from the phone company. say hello to internet speeds up to 250 mbps. and add phone and tv for only $34.90 more a month. call today. comcast business. built for business. >> tucker: welcome back, here's the second half of our interview with univision anchor jorge ramos the part where he gives up and admits i'm right. get back to the point you are making a minute to go, americans have no right to be concerned about the dramatic demographic change taking place in their country. let me stipulate, i'm for getting along on for colorblindness, i'm for tolerance 100%. if things radically changing your country it's okay for you to say what is this or maybe i don't want to live in a countryi that looks nothing like the country i grew up in? is that bigoted?

mexico would be about to say that. >> there's a demographic b waiver revolution happening in the united states. there are 60 million latinos in about 35 years, it's good to be 100 million latinos. one in three is going to be latinos. i demographic revolution or a o latino revolution going on. on the other hand if you are implying that there is an invasion of united states. >> tucker: i'm not sayingne invasion, if you've come to this country you make a ton of money, then you yell at people who say will wait a second. this is having an effect on my kids at school, on my culture, on the economy. and your point is you're not allowed to have that opinion. >> that's not true. it's having an impact, but it's having a positive impact. >> tucker: in some ways but not in always.s. >> overall, there is an immigration surplus. immigrants contribute about $2 billion to the economy of thb united states. immigrants contribute and put much more money into the system

than what they take out and social services. according to the national academy of sciences. $54 billion on immigrant surplus. >> tucker: those numbers aren't exactly right, but i think some immigrants contribute a lot. >> national academy of sciences. >> tucker: is more complicated than that but i don't want to debate that. i want to make the point that there is a downside as well. 15% of federal inmates, prisoners or mexican citizens why shouldn't i be allowed to say that's a problem? >> that's precisely the problem. because you're criminalizing the immigrant population. that is not true. >> tucker: i'm noting a fact of who they are.

>> it's not true. these are the facts. 97% of immigrants are good people. >> tucker: i believe that. >> less than 3% are bad hombre or they committed a felony.s >> tucker: you're dodging my. i'm not disagreed. >> the vast majority are good people. g they're not criminals. >> tucker: i'm not arguing that the vast majority are criminals. their presence illegally is a crime, and i think we should be honest about that. most americans agree. 15% of all federal inmates are mexican citizens. it's not a small number commits many thousands. that's a big number. >> i don't know what your source i'm giving you my source. >> tucker: the bureau of prisons, how's that quits mark >> i don't know if that's correct. >> tucker: you don't know actually know anything about this, that's what i'm saying. you're making generalizations not rooted in fact. >> this is the important thing. less than 3% of immigrants

commit felonies. in contrast, about 6% of americans commit felonies. >> tucker: you made that point at the outset. let me ask you one more question, you are almost out of time. you don't have command of these numbers so it's pointless. let me ask you a theoretical question. what immigration restrictions would you favor in mexico?? it's already a felony to be there illegally. what further restrictions in the country of mexico would you favor? >> mexico is a terrible example for the protection of immigrants. they treat central american immigrants in a terrible way, ia think countries should be judged by the way they treated the most vulnerable, not the most powerful. they have a horrible record when it comes to human rights and central american spirit here in the united states, i think we have the responsibility to treat immigrants in a decent, humaneme way. we are responsible partly because of that. they come here undocumented immigrants because they are thousands of american companies who hire them.

millions of americans including you and me in the audience who benefit from their work. we have the right them much better than the way they treat them in mexico. >> tucker: will you just acknowledge the truth? you're obviously a very rich person. i'm around rich people a lot. rich people in america disproportionately benefited from a low-wage, low skilled immigration form of household help and cheap labor, the middle of the country doesn't benefit a lot from this. it lowers wages, they don't hire a lot of household help and there is a lot of crime whether not.t. you're willing to admit it or not. >> there's not a lot of crime. if that's fake news. donald trump is the king of fake news. >> tucker: i remember the talking point.na let's get back to the economics of it. it doesn't help an american citizen, born here making $40,000 a year, to have a bunch of people willing to work for

$25,000 a year move into his town, will you concede that? >> no. there is a minimum impact. there can let it doesn't mean it's the truth. the national academy of sciences, there's an immigration surplus. overall, immigrants contribute more to the economy than they take away. those are the facts. some people might be affected. overall, which is what we care about, overall, they have a positive impact. >> tucker: thanks a lot for joining us, i appreciate it. the gop's obamacare replacement is already in trouble, will ask paul ryan whether it will become law in the end.k stay tuned.ya i know, we need to talk about this.

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and 10 grams of protein. all in 3 delicious flavors. it's choosing to go in one direction... up. boost. be up for it. >> tucker: seven years after obamacare pass, washington is >> tucker: seven years after obamacare passed, washington is once again at war over health care, not simply between democrats and republicans butal instead between different r factions of one of the republican majority in congress. we'll talk to the speaker of the house paul ryan in a minute butk take a look at what's happening in washington. >> this is what the american people have asked for, this is what those across this country have wanted. and we have been willing to listen and now we will eat. >> this is not what we told the voters we were going to do and i don't think it's going to bring down the cost of insurance which has got to be our goal. >> this is the conservative alternative to obamacare, this is how were going to reform health care in america and give choice back to people, risking the failing individual markets. we are proud of this piece of legislation. >> it's been introduced in the

house in the last 24 hours ise not the obamacare replacement plan. not the obamacare repeal plannt we've been hoping for. this is a step in the wrong direction. >> tucker: the speaker of the house may have his work cut out for him, the american health care act has been replacing obamacare blasted by some of the conservatives that support he made need to pass it. the house freedom caucus says it's obamacare lite. the heritage foundation says the bill misses the mark. several republican senators said they are unimpressed, what is going on? speaker of the house paul ryan joins us with an update on alls of this. >> you bet, good to be with you. >> tucker: it's been seven years to the month since obamacare passed. the obvious question is in all that time, couldn't republicans formulate a plan and agree on before going public with it ? it looks like chaos, why is that? >> i don't think it is chaos, i heard your lead-in, here's what we did a year ago.

a year ago, house republicansns said, we need to take a plan to repeal and replace obamacare to the country. we spent a year working on this plan, all house republicans participated in this, we had working groups were anybody who had an idea brought it to the table. we reached consensus on what that plan look like. we called it a better way we put it on the internet, we all ran for congress in 2016 on it that plan. >> tucker: i remember. >> it was modeled on the tom price legislation, that's what this is. this is the legislative text of that plan that we ran in 2016 on what we would replace obamacare with. tom price is now the secretary of hhs is the architect of it. 12 cosponsors is greatly as december. we're going through typical growing pains from being an opposition party fighting barack obama, nancy pelosi, andr harry reid to a governing party.

and now we're translating that legislation, that plan into a bill. i'm really excited, here's why i'm excited. >> tucker: can i ask you just really quick.an you rolled it out yesterday, you said you've been working on this for a year with precise termshi and everything. when you rolled it out, you must have known that lots of members of the freedom caucus in the heritage foundation and in much of republican centers would start barking about it. why not wait until everyone wasn on board with the version before rolling it out? >> as i said, all these folks helped pass, we campaigned on this last year.efhe what i think is happening is people are getting agn little confused about what you can and cannot put in the reconciliatiog bill. i'm getting technical here. there's three phases here and that's what a lot of outside groups just don't understand the fact that if we put everything in the bill that we possibly want, we would have a filibuster, we couldn't pass it in the senate. this bill, which is the first phase of a three phase plan, is what we can pass without a filibuster in a budget bill. there are things like interstate shopping on health care,

associate to buy nationwide through buying pools, medical liability reform, all those things we very much believe in which is part of our better way agenda, you cannot put in amu budget bill because then they can filibuster that entire bill. >> tucker: tort reform and lots of other things and i don't want to keep pressing you on this. >> let me finish the point. >> tucker: these are members of congress, they know what the reconciliation bill is. >> we were finding that some don't. we are a first installment to gut obamacare, repeal mandates, taxes, and spending. then we replace it with conservative republican taxs policy that is long-standing conservative reform. health savings accounts, tax credits to buy what you want to buy in state regulatedco marketplace is not the federal and risk of pools. this is some things that conservatives in the heritage foundation had been pushing it for years. the other pieces that we really believe in, tom price in phase

two deregulate thehe marketplace. 1442 provisions it says the second has discretion, he can use that discretion to unwind obamacare. pass those other bills we very much believe in like shopping across state lines, like medical liability reform.ve those things will pass here in the house, were goingro to pressure the senate to pass it but they cannot filibuster that. here's the problem, give me like seven sentences to explain all of that. it's that confusion that's running this issue. the point here is we are keeping our promises, we are excited about this. we're taking one entitlement, the federal icing it and capping it. the other entitlement, were repealing it and replacing with conservative tax policy. this is nothing but a win for conservatives. >> tucker: let's get to the tax policy. i'm just reading this so i may have it wrong for there and investment tax in here, the net investment income tax. it only kicks in on couples making over a quarter million n dollars per year. it's a tax on wealthy wealthy investors. you're eliminating it in a health care bill.

my question is the message of that election really that we need to help investors quits mark the die was over 20,000. are they the group that needs to help? i >> this was a tax on capital income which is bad for economic growth it's like capitalal gains tax effectively. we're not going to keep obamacare taxes inff place. the trillion dollar tax cut that this bill represents, that's part of that tax increase that was in obamacare. we promised we would repeal the obamacare taxes, this is one of the obamacare taxes so we're keeping our promises. it's bad tax policy because it's bad for economic growth and were repealing obamacare spending. we're getting rating of its tax and they were getting rid of its spending. you may want to keep at 3.8% tax, we're not going to keep it because it was part of obamacare. >> tucker: lots are things are part of obamacare that you're not doing anything about because you can't under reconciliation.

you just said you don't have to meet every promise in this first round. >> tax and spending policy wee can. >> tucker: also, you have the overview here is that all the wealth basically in the last ten years is stuck to the top and that's one of the reasons we've had all this political turmoil as you know. kind of a hard sell to say were going to repeal obamacare but we're going to send more money to people who have gone to the riches, that's what this does.op i'm not leftist but that's true. >> i'm not that concerned about it because we said we were going to repeal obamacare taxes and this was one of them. this dramatically helps us for tax reform. by getting rid of the obamacare taxes, the next bill up coming up this spring and summer is tax reform. that means the new tax code that we are proposing we put this in our plan part of our blueprint, that will not have to overcome those obamacare taxes. when we have a new replacement tax code to got replace thisco

text code won't have to also replace the obamacare taxes. getting rid of all of these taxes, lowering the revenue that is taken out of the americanan economy, out of families out of businesses for the government, we think that's really important. >> tucker: the individual mandate are what people think the most about obamacare. i want to make sure i understand this. so that's gone, but there's going to be a cost for late enrollment, if i'm reading this right, 36% surcharge on the annual premiums. if a plan cost $5,000 per year, pay an extra $1500 a year to pay the penalty. so why wouldn't i just wait till i get sick to buy insurance how's that going to work? >> that's why were tightening the enrollment. we're not going to have an open enrollment period for a year. one of the reasons why obamacare is collapsing and crashing, they had an open enrollment plan time for a year, which is exactly what you're saying is what's happening now. what we're trying to do is prevent that from happening so we can drop the price of health

insurance. you can't just say wait until you get sick and then by the health care. if you do that, then the health care gets really expensive, that's what's happening now. this tightens that up so that we can drop the cost of health care. look if you want to go from this plan to the next plan, in the employer market, they already have these rights. what were basically trying to do here is equalize the treatment and the fairness between people who get health care from jobs and people who don't. people who get health care from work, they can move it from plan to plan without any penalty. we want to get people in the individual market, guys p workig 10-$15 an hour jobs who don't get health care, we want them to be able to succeed and beke successful we want them to have the same kind of task treatment everyone gets, so they could get affordable care. this does that. >> tucker: what are you going to do about emergency medicaid, billions a year to spend, 100% goes to illegal aliens as you know. s journal of the american medical association, 99% of the money goes to illegals to bear

children at public expense in u.s. hospitals, it's a big problem. why is it that defunded? >> we're looking at reconciliation issues. >> tucker: you can't defund under reconciliation? >> we got an issue with thatn were working on that with the senate spirit we've got these goofy senate rules we got to work with. we can to every single thing wen want to. we would do all of these things if we could without getting a filibuster. we don't want to jeopardize this bill and to make it subject to a filibuster which means we can't do anything. that's why were trying to do this so we can form a two senate rules. here's one more point i would say. because we're delegates and come over giving medicaid back to the states. massive amount of federalism. the border state governors can do that. the border state governors decide what happens with their medicaid populations. we cap it, we stop the expansion, we grow it as a slow the rate over time with saves trillions which is a massive amount of debt reduction and that is what we're doing here which is a huge, huge conservative a step forward reform as well.

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>> tucker: here now the rest of our interview with speaker of the house paul ryan, here's the fun part. we're 47 days into the trump administration, nothing has gone through congress. 4 at this point during the obama administration years ago, they passed all kinds of stuff. >> i disagree with that, we won one piece of met legislation is moved through the congress? >> we have a 200 day plan. >> tucker: i'm just saying compared to obama. >> i'm getting there. for the first two months, we had this tool for the congressional review act which is time sensitive, you can only use it for so long.co we're going back and getting obama era regulations and repealing those regulations. we've done about 15 here in the house. remember all of the one where donald trump did that bill signing with the coal workers?

that was one of these instances where we took an obama regulation, we said we are resending it, they can't filibuster that in the senate. but we only have 60 days to use this tool. oda we consumed the first two months going after regulations that are job killing regulations because they can't filibuster that.. then we're moving to obamacare which is where we are right now. >> tucker: how many uses of legislation have been signed by the president to lock what to mark any? >> these are good questions, weh got a few through i want to one of the sonics myself, the coal workers is one of these cases. it's at the senate now, they have to approve donald trump's cabinet. they have to put a 1200 people through the senate to populate the trump government and chuck schumer can burn up to 30 hours per person. in between that, the senators working on the congressional review act amendments, which are repealing obamacare regulations. the point being, we are executing our plan exactly as we had planned it.

we're going after obama regulations, over givingng donad trump the people he needs to step his government. now we're on to obamacare, repealing and replacing obamacare. this is just a phase one. b tom price is out there working on phase two. >> tucker: i don't understand this. this is the 115th congress i think you've been in session for less than half of that time. in april we checked, there's a lot to do, nothing meaningful, u went to a bill signing about coal. but there's a lot of stuff that hasn't been done that he promised and it hasn't made its way through congress, not all your fault obviously, but eight days is not a lot of time. >> we're producing a lot here, i'm excited about it. the real why is because how long it takes to pass things through the senate spirit we typically do like a 100 day plan, as you've heard. i went and set down with mitch mcconnell and the fact that they have to populate the trump government with their employees and cap secretaries and assistant secretaries and we made it a 200 day plan because we know the democrats are doing everything to string out the clock to delay and a stall. there are certain rules they can

use in the senate to do that. we have a 200 day plan. >> tucker: in the house, are they the reason you're only there for eight days in april? >> we want to talk to our constituents. we want to go listen to our constituents. >> tucker: we have a new administration, should you put all that on hold and say were going to get this done? eight days is not a lot. >> i don't know if let's have my head if that's correct that or not, i want to take your word for it. we're piling up so many things in the senate that they are stillworking on getting this approved. when we give you a sense of what we are planning for the first 200 days. repealing and replacing obamacare, the biggest entitlement reform in a generation. overhauling the irs tax code, rebuilding the military, doing infrastructure, repealing harmful regulations. repealing the dodd-frank ended the choice act that would replace it. all of those things, were planning on doing just in 2017. >> tucker: what about funding the wall? >> that's part of our appropriations process.

>> tucker: i appreciate it, you have a lot to do, thank you very much. thousands of people were marching today in citieses throughout the country for. women's rights, they said and against president trump come after the break, will talk ton' shelby steele who says modern protest culture is defined byy what he calls incoherence and lunacy rather than sensible attainable political goals. that's up next. attainable political goals. dearthere's no other way to say this.

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>> tucker: there's a lot going on politically, protest in the streets. people getting mad, saying radical things, what's it all about? in "the wall street journal," fascinated piece by shelbyhi steele, he's a fellow at stanford university's hoover institution. he explains what exactly is's going on, he joins us tonight. thanks a lot for coming on.

>> thanks for having me. >> tucker: i hope all our viewers will read it, but it's the aims of liberalism have changed from freedom which is the aim of liberal movements throughout the last century to something very different, moral authority is the new goal of liberalism, can you ask when you meant by that. >> in the 60s, america for the first time, had to face its sins, the sins of the past, the racism, slavery, sexism and sot forth. militarism. and a very negative view of america came into being. america was in need of moral authority to function as a legitimate society. this is where we evolved, the liberalism that we still have today which gives us a cover against that shame, a way tolv function in america and be in a sense above shameful america.

thus the sort of note of superiority in today's liberalism, the sort of moral superiority. we are the good. regular everyday americans are still associated with that evil past and cannot be trusted. this i think has less to do with the vitriol in regard to donald trump. >> tucker: a lot of this turnsns on the question of white guilt but it's not what you think it is. white guilt is not guilt over injustices suffered by others, it's the terror of being stigmatized with america's old bigotry is, to bere stigmatized with any of these is to be utterly stripped of moral authority and to be made into a pariah, that's what this is about.f >> yes. that was what was new in the 60s. other groups come outside groups, blacks, women had the ability to stigmatize america as a racist, sexist society.

there is an enormous power in stigmatization. it is the primary power that i think liberalism has exercised over the last 50-60 years. it can stigmatize you. if you do anything, political correctness is an outgrowth of this. if you do anything to violate what they considered to be theny good, then you are in effect ruined, you are isolated, marginalized. this is what we see on campuses today, muscling people aside. there is no reasoning, it's all muscle, moral muscling. >> tucker: i'm reading your piece, this doesn't sound like politics as i understated a debate over issues. this sounds like religion, this sounds like theology, a spiritual battle. >> yes, exactly. liberalism is not an ideology it's an identity. people who think of themselves

as liberals really are adhering to an identity, to the idea of my personal self. i am the kind of person who is above racism, who is above sexism.. if you take that position that i don't like, then you are challenging, not just my ideas but you're challenging me as a human being.ar with a particular identity. that is why the passions, the ferocity of the left that we see today in the streets and elsewhere. >> tucker: there's really no debating people on the basis of that. because you're not really talking about ideas or policies. >> no, there's a complete shutdown of any, honest intellectual exchange.f because you're not threatening my ideas, you're threatening me. and i don't have the patience to

be reasonable and argue with you on the basis of reason. i need to literally extinguish or annihilate you and your position. you see, the anti-trump sentiment in many ways. annihilate him. there is nothing redeeming in this man. and so forth. because liberalism is an identity. >> tucker: shelby steele, one of the smartest pieces i've read in the long time, thanks a lot for coming on. >> thanks for having me. >> tucker: we'll be right back.

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lectures are being deleted, so now no one can access them. progress means hurting everyone equally, of course. "hannity" is next, have a great night. >> sean: welcome to "hannity." newt gingrich, michelle malcolm will join us tonight. but first, an explosive report raises very serious critical questions about u.s. government surveillance at trump tower where our commander-in-chief headquarters were located. these are questions that president barack obama needs to answer and that is tonight's opening monologue. she along with our colleague john solomon they had confirmed the existence of a present court warrant order, just weeks before the general election and to monium