>> dollar cost average if we get a dip? >> just keep buying, buying till you die. >> all right, the cost of freedom continues now with the man himself david asman on the place for business, fox. david: vice-president mike pence making a weekend pitch to repeal and replace obamacare. insurers and drug companies are applauding the plan and that's exactly why some here say patients and taxpayers should be worrying about the plan. it's time to debate. hi, i'm david asman, welcome to forbes on fox. with steve forbes, elizabeth macdonald, sabrina schaeffer. e-mack, a lot of people in congress are saying it's helping insurers more than patients, what do you think. >> i agree, i said last week, yes, we need to get this reform

done. it seems to help companies. when have you ever heard yes, insurers, you're allowed to hike prices 30% if you go without coverage for a year. when have you seen search corporate entitlements bills on tax credits like this is. i get it, we need obamacare repeal and replace, but it seems like a boon for the insurance companies. david: there are a lot of tax breaks for the insurers on this thing. we can put them on the screen. it does help them out in specific areas. >> yeah, david, look, i think we have to think about this along a spectrum, good, better and best, we may not be at the best plan, but i think we're moving in the right direction and i think a lot of republicans are work to go sort of repair some of the most damaging parts of obamacare and using tax cuts to trying to equalize the employer versus individual tax situation, is very important. if government is going to be involved at all in subsidizing, i think it's important that they're not-- that they are not subsidizing

health insurance and they're subsidizing health care and that's the direction we want to be continuing to move in. david: bruce, the definition of crony capitalism is helping out a small group of businesses and everybody else pays for it. is this an example of that? >> oh, it certainly is. you have the situation with the insurance companies, a lot of people, paul ryan and donald have brought up this whole idea that obamacare is in a death spiral because of what the aetna ceo said. the reality is, his company wasn't able to successfully manage the costs of care. they pulled out of florida, but florida blue cross is in this, they're making money and screened their parents and got 800,000 customers, so, this is now, they're going to get to sell what they want, and it's not going to cover benefits and charge what they want. that's not going to change. david: steve, there's a phrase inside the beltway, carve outs. there are changes being made, but does this concern you?

>> not so much, david. in any bill, you're going to have interests weigh in. it would be a surprise if they didn't weigh in. and in the markets, less discrimination between young people and old people, and young people had to subsidies old people, it's a c-minus, but it's in the right direction. david: john, you're not a fan of crony capitalism, what do you think? >> anything good for drug makers is probably pretty good for consumers. only in hollywood do companies get really rich by fleecing their customers and in the real world they get rich by bringing value to them. i think we have to keep that in mind. insurance companies aren't bad, drug makers aren't bad. david: by the way, it looks like you're in hollywood right now, so you know. bill, what do you think? is this crony capitalism or will this help the individual patient and taxpayer? >> i think ryan care is as bad as obamacare.

if we want to help patients we've got to get rid of the ridiculously high deductibles, and bring in high co-pays. then and only then would patients are motivated to shop for the cheapest mri. david: steve, what do you think? >> that's preposterous, the government should not be dictating these things and at least this bill moves in the direction of taking restraints off and not falling into the trap of throwing people into the street. mandate this, that and the other thing. you want more of an individual market. the 30% premium if a young person goes back out and goes back in, it's not good, but better than the individual mandate that covers everyone and it's a sop to the insurers to get real reform. david: e-mack, at least one thing this bill does to empower the individual is it increases health savings accounts and also increases the flexible spending accounts so you can put more of your own money tax-free into your health care. >> i get it and hear what

you're saying. the insurance companies have not behaved so great here. watch this. the raw knuckle at the state level, obamacare already had in it the ability for states to create their own health compacts. it's in section 1333. i know i just sounded like the scarecrow who just got a brain, but allowed for states to build their own pools across state lines. rhode island, and five states were doing it, tried to do it, but the insurance lobbies are so powerful at the state level, they stopped it. a true free market can't happen until you remove the insurance companies iron clad grip at the state level. david: at the same time, it's the insurance companies and drug companies that were there at the beginning of obamacare, they got their little carve-outs there. shouldn't we be suspicious of them getting more carve-outs year? >> i think we knew during obamacare, you get in bed with the devil, that's what you get and i think--

but i do think that bill was saying, two sides of the same coin, in my view. i don't want government to do this, but i think what bill is 0 pointing out, we want health insurance to be for catastrophic and injuries and shouldn't be for the average doctor's appointment or stress test and people should be shopping around and it would naturally come down because you would have more competition. we see that with the minute clinics popping up all over the place. we want insurance to be that traditional insures not everyday. david: bill, go ahead. >> i think we've got to empower the patient. it ought to be possible to go onto your computer screen and schapp for doctors or mri's, the way you can shop for blue jeans on amazon and we can't do that now. let's fix that. david: john, what do you think? can we fix it? >> of course, we can fix it, but if we're going to be suspicious about insurance companies, let's be suspicious about a republican or d want to legislate was the

market good. is this is about getting health career or health insurance to people then it's the market like anything else. >> john, you act like insurance ar companies don't do any lobbying of politicians in d.c. they go hand in glove together to craft legislation like this. so, i'm saying it's not truly market reform. >> of course they do. >> when you have guys sitting at the table, crafting legislation behind the scenes that hurts everybody. david: john, quickly. >> well, no one is saying that it's good or bad, but if we want to fix it it's not about letting congress do it without the insurance companies. get congress out of this altogether, you'll see a great outcome. david: bruce, i heard you mumbling, fwaed. >> the people closest to this, closest to the patience, the doctors, hospitals and nurses are opposed to this and the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies have not said anything this week, there you go. david: steve, speak to this. because there are these associations, bruce is right there. doctor associations inside the beltway that claim to speak for

all doctors, but frankly, their doctors involved in this are what-- the secretary involved most closely in this is a doctor, rand paul is a doctor and here are a lot of doctors that are working to make this happen. >> they don't speak for everybody and they're the ones who can give us obamacare in the first place, which a lot of physicians opposed and done away with a lot of individual practices. in the real world in terms of the tax credits, maybe after the negotiations, these tax credits can be made like school vouchers, where the patient. david: that's an idea. >> can go in the market and start to get-- >> i would like to be in charge of my own money. >> the house bill is a step in that right direction and i hope we tweak it and we're on the way to a free market. david: bruce, i wants to check your consistency, when obamacare passed were you the carve out for insurance companies back then? because, remember, they got a whole bunch of subsidies. >> i was not wild about what happened then. they needed to get something

through, what you need to do, you need to amend this and i mean the insurance companies, they won on this. you've got to understand, they're making billions off medicaid, medicare, they're not losing. david: they are making a lot of money. we've got to leave it at that. replacing obamacare to cutting taxes. some lawmakers demanding we figure out how to pay for tax cuts. some here say they pay for themselves. we debate it coming up next. we asked a group of young people when they thought they should start saving for retirement. then we asked some older people when they actually did start saving. this gap between when we should start saving and when we actually do is one of the reasons why too many of us aren't prepared for retirement. just start as early as you can. it's going to pay off in the future. if we all start saving a little more today, we'll all be better prepared tomorrow. prudential. bring your challenges.

ostriches don't really stick vitheir heads in the sand.ve horns on their helmets. and a real john deere is actually real affordable. you learn something new everyday. the surprisingly affordable john deere e series tractors. >> fox news alert. good morning to you, i'm leland vittert in washington. we're moments away from vice-president mike pence to speak in louisville, kentucky. a live look right now, as the warm-up acts are getting way on the stage. mr. pence travelling there this morning as the trump administration ramps up its sales pitch for the republican health care plan. mr. pence earlier taking part in a listening session with

small business owners getting their thoughts on health care reform, what obamacare has meant for them. meanwhile, president trump engaging in a full court press over the weekend. in his weekly address mr. trump stating an action is needed now from the disaster of obamacare. some conservatives are holding out, saying the g.o.p. plan does not go far enough. as we look back live at the stage in kentucky, we're waiting for the governor of kentucky and then the vice-president. we'll go back there when it happens. now, back to forbes on fox. david: it's the next big debate in president trump's agenda. republicans and even democrats saying they don't want it to add to our nearly $20 trillion in debt. but, steve, you say what's to debate? tax cuts pay for themselves. make the case. >> when tax cuts comes in, washington spends the revenue or more, but the revenue comes

in. don't worry about washington, worry about the american people and the economy. when you get reagan type tax cuts and more jobs are created and more opportunities are created. that's the key thing. i don't care about washington, i care about the american people, go for them, not washington. david: and, bill, i hate for the phrase, you have to pay for the tax cut. you don't have to pay for tax cuts. it's my money. >> it is your money and i totally agree with steve. we've got to shrink the size of the federal government and stop being such a burden on individuals, but i think it's time for steve to give up his voodoo economics which says that tax cuts pay for themselves. david: my goodness. well, e-mack, we have proof and we're going to show it here is that from '83 when the reagan tax cuts kicked in, to '89, look how the tax revenues, the money that came into the government from individual tax rates, had been cut. it increased 55%. we cut the tax rates from 70%,

which was the high, down to 28% and we had a 55% increase in tax revenues. >> the same phenomenon happened under john f. kennedy, tax revenues soared 54% between 1964 and 1969 from his tax cuts. yes, it's common sense, put more money back in, you get nor growth, that means more tax revenues raised from that growth. i mean, we're coming out of this eight-year period, the you didn't build that kind of administration, the teachers faculty lounge and now the economy has gotten out of the teachers faculty lounge. and people should get jobs as opinionated bar tenders. david:on who has an opinion and is not a bartender, does it matter that taxes are paid for? >> i reject the nature of the question. the simple truth is, it's not the government's money. david: that's right. >> the question is, are americans overtaxed? without question. could the federal government and politicians get by with less of our money? without question. it should always be about

reducing the burden of washington on the american taxpayer. david: sabrina, what do you think? >> i'm in complete agreement with john here. the economy has been chugging along the last eight years, it's a massive energy drain in the form of lower regulations and lower taxes. it seems like a complete no-brainer, when i get that tax break it's not going under my pillow, it's going into the economy to grow companies and grow jobs and make things better for americans. this sort of seems ridiculous that we would be talking about it as a budget issue. david: but we are, steve. the point is you would think that republicans who speak wonderfully about ronald reagan would take a lesson from ronald reagan. during his era, we cut tax rates tremendously from 70 top rate, 70 down to 28%, and tax revenues increased 55%. what's difficult to understand about that? >> part of it is the way they score tax cuts in washington, david, which assumes that you don't get much of a good feedback.

so these ten year revenue estimates are not worth the paper they're written on, number one, and number two, the revenues do come in when you have a more vibrant economy. people earn more, people pay more, people give more away to charities. very basic, and the republicans also don't seem to understand some of them amazingly, when you make an investment you don't get a return right away. you want to build a building, several years before you get it complete. hello, people. david: bill, this is not voodoo economics. we've got the stats to back it up. >> good stats, but that burst of revenue came from two things, one was pent up capital gains and the other thing was a pent up economy which had been surprised by voelkerism. >> and by tax hikes. you know, people who say that tax cuts don't create growth, i mean, they're the same crowd who said that obamacare would lower costs for us all. again, opinionated jobs, jobs as opinionated bartenders, that's what i think they should get. david: bruce, is there any of this that's getting through to you? >> well, i think that, you

know, nobody wants to pay higher taxes certainly. if you look at what donald is talking about, he's talking spending at a faster pace than any revenue would come in with his wall and they haven't scored trump care yet. so, there's a lot of accountability that comes out of it. david: let's leave that with steve. steve, it's true there are a lot more expenses with the trump administration. >> the key thing is, when you lower tax rates, you get more revenue. on the spending side, separate issue. you want more revenue, lower the burden on the american people. david: guys, we've got to leave it at that even though john was shaking his head. the cashin' in gang getting ready. >> knew leaks through the cia, through smart tv's and cell phones, time to stop the government from snooping on customers. the day without a women resulting in a day without school, and parents of kids scrambling. is that right?

is that fair? see you all at 11:30. david: first, our trade gap is jumping to a multi-year high and president trump's trade advisor warning it is a threat to our national security. somebody here says it could actually be good for our economy. wait, what? they'll explain coming up next. say carl, we have a question about your brokerage fees. fees? what did you have in mind? i don't know. $4.95 per trade? uhhh. and i was wondering if your brokerage offers some sort of guarantee? guarantee? where we can get our fees and commissions back if we're not happy. so can you offer me what schwab is offering? what's with all the questions? ask your broker if they're offering $4.95 online equity trades and a satisfaction guarantee. if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab.

>> i'm leland vittert in washington. screen left, you're looking at louisville, kentucky, a small business there, harshaw train energy corporation where the vice-president is there for a listening session and then expected to give remarks, all part of the big rollout by the white house for the republican replacement to obamacare. on the stage right now is the governor of kentucky, a fellow by the name of matt bevins who

has been giving, shall we say, an eviscerating speech about the problems of obamacare. with that and the applause, we're seeing the vice-president wave as he is expected to take the stage for about 15 or 20 minutes. no surprise and no coincidence that he is in kentucky, home of senator rand paul, who has certainly been a thorn in the side of the white house, who has been looking for a lot of support from senate republicans. now, the vice-president. >> hello, kentucky! thank you, governor, for that great introduction and ladies and gentlemen, how about that governor, matt bevins, everybody, isn't he something? you know, kentucky, kentucky, i truly believe -- i like to say to people, i was for matt beven before it was cool. kentucky is lucky to have a great leader, fiscal responsibility, rolling back red tape and because matt

bevin, kentucky is now a right to work state. kentucky is now open for business. [applause] >> governor, the president and i are great to partner with you to make kentucky great again as we make america great again. i get along with people from kentucky, except in march. it's a little testy, some evenings. but the same goes with all of my strong feelings about your governor, go for other dedicated public servants who are here, state senator ralph after rad -- alvarado joined us for a great discussion, and congressman bret guthrey, stand up and show how much people appreciate your conservative stand in washington d.c. thank you, both. [applause] >> i've got to tell you, it's great to be in the home state

of the senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell. he's a true friend to me, to our president, and to the people of america. [applaus [applause] >> great to have the privilege to be back in the blue grass state. last fall, thanks to all of you in kentucky, your hard work, your support and your players, kentucky voted to make donald trump the 45th president of the united states of america in a decisive vote. [applaus [applause] >> now, and it was quite a campaign, wasn't it? it's been quite an administration, too. i've got to tell you. just on a very personal level, it's the greatest honor of my life to serve as vice-president to president donald trump and i want to thank you all for the privilege. [applause] >> the president is a man of boundless energy, optimism, i like to say he's got broad

shoulders and a big heart. and speaking of which, the president asked me late yesterday when we were leaving the white house in the evening, to just say thanks to everyone gathered here today. hard-working americans like all of you were some of our biggest supporters and on behalf of president trump, thank you, thank you for your support and thank you for being here today. we're truly grateful. [applause] >> and for all the business owners with us here today, i enjoyed our discussion earlier. the governor and i had a brisk discussion about the changes in health care since 2010 to businesses and appreciate your candid feedback what our administration could do to help your businesses succeed and grow. i have to tell you one other people i want to mention before i thank our host, it's always good to have papa john in the house. john snyder and his wonderful wife are with us today.

the midwest is proud that you call kentucky and america home. john, thank you. there he is. >> last but not least, on behalf of the president, let me thank harshaw train for their hospitality. while frank harshaw could not be here today, not only do i appreciate the welcome of his team, we so admire frank, building an extraordinary business, someone who grew up in foster care. frank and his story are the story of the american dream. would you join me in thanking them for allowing this great business to be our backdrop. [applause] >> and all of those who run businesses, own businesses or work in small business, lets me make you a promise, the president wants you to know, our administration will be the best friend america's small businesses will ever have. [applause] and the president

and i know that small businesses are the engines of the american economy. as the president said in his joint address to congress last week. we're going to restart the engine to prosperity and growth in america like never before. i grew up in a small business family just north of here in columbus, indiana. i went to work in my father's gas station when i was only 14 years of age. i was actually what was called a gas station attendant. if you're under the age of 30, i'll explain to you after the program exactly what that was. but as the world also knows, the president grew up in a family business, too. we both know the sacrifices required to make a business work and more importantly, we know that when small business is strong, america is strong and this president's going to fight every day to make that a reality. [applaus [applause] >> president trump wants to

help you, wants to help you become stronger than ever before. he made a promise to you and to the american people. like i say, this white house is in the promise-keeping business. just look at what we've done over the past month and a half, on day one, president trump went straight to work. rolling back reames of red tape. he actually instructed every agency of the federal government to find two regulations to get rid of before issuing any new regulations on job creators in america. [applaus [applause]. >> now, the president has taken decisive action protecting american jobs and american workers by taking measures to secure our border, to build a wall, and end illegal immigration once and for all. [applaus [applause] >> the president authorized the keystone and dakota pipelines at last, creating thousands of american jobs and building on america's energy

infrastructure. [applause] >> businesses-- if you haven't noticed already, businesses have already been reacting to president trump's vision, his buy american, hire american vision from coast to coast, literally since election day. companies have been announcing they're keeping jobs here, they're creating new ones. last month alone, the economy added amazing 235,000 jobs in the month of february. this economy is coming back and coming back strong. [applaus [applause] >> and most importantly of all, the top priority the president gave us, to work with members of congress and make sure that the obamacare nightmare is about to end. [applaus [applause] >> i'll tell you, amazing to think about. i mean, virtually every promise of obamacare has been broken.

we all remember the promises that they made back in 2010, when this was signed into law. they told us the cost of health insurance would go down. not true. they told us if you like your doctors, you can keep them. not true. they told us if you like your health plan, you could keep it. not true. and here are the heartbreaking facts. today, americans are paying $3,000 more a year on average for health insurance than the day obamacare was signed into law. last year alone, premiums spiked by 25% and millions of americans have lost their healths insurance plans and lost their doctors. and in one third of the nation's counties, americans only have one insurance company to choose from, which essentially means they have no choice at all. the truth is, the americans are struggling under obamacare every day and so are small businesses like those so well-represented here. you all know exactly what i'm talking about. the truth is, kentucky is a

textbook example of obamacare's failures. here in the blue grass state, premiums skyrocketed an average of 24% last year with some plans spiking by 47%. nearly half of the state has only one health insurer to choose from and next year, humana, headquartered right here in louisville, is pulling out of kentucky's obamacare exchange. today, one third of the state is on medicaid. and as your governor has said over and over again, it's unsustainable and medicaid here in can enken is threatening to bankrupt this state. folks, in just can't continue and i promise you, it won't. [applaus [applause] >> since the day that kentucky helped send president trump to the white house his top priority has been to repeal and replace obamacare with someth