>> heather: we'll see you back here in an hour. a spill in the leaves of "outnumbered" have a lot to talk about. take it away. >> sandra: one of the biggest meetings of donald trump's new presidency happening right now. mr. trump meeting with german chancellor angela merkel at the white house. ahead of a joint news conference. this as both leaders have not had a smooth history. this is "outnumbered," i'm sandra smith coming here today, as faulkner, meghan mccain, gillian turner, and today's #oneluckyguy, a couch first timer, ari fleischer. you are outnumbered sir. >> ari: i am a freshman.

the >> sandra: so much going on, great to have you. let's begin with a big meeting between president trump and angela merkel. at the white house sang the agenda includes discussions between strength a nail, fighting isis, and resolving ukraine's conflict. the highly anticipated sitdown comes after donald trump repeatedly slammed the leader on the campaign trail. accusing her of ruining germany for allowing an influx of refugees. kevin joins us live from the white house. >> mix it up why don't you? you're just trying to stir the pot. i would love to be a fly on the wall for that meeting. this is her first trip to the white house during the term presidency. her first trip back here in a couple years to be specific. there have been a number of important topics at the two

world leaders will want knock out. let's give some of the bullet point so the folks at home can follow along. trade, a big one today. merkel traveling with the ceos of bmw and siemens. you're going to hear the word reciprocity between the two nations. security cooperation, refugees, and a frank conversation about nato and the u.s. role they are. at the president has been skeptical about nato, he said look, other members need to pay their fair share. germany, not quite at the 2% number is that they're supposed to hit peered at their checking in at about 1.23%. >> we strongly support nato. we only ask that all the nato members made their full and proper financial contributions to the nato alliance, which many of them have not been doing. many of them have not been even

close. they have to do that. >> obviously they'll talk a great deal about the refugee crisis has been overwhelming euro. as you pointed out, the president making no bones about the fact that he thought merkel made a catastrophic mistake in allowing nearly a million refugees into germany. keep this in mind, i think this is important. the two leaders will have to speak not to each other, but to their respective domestic audiences. the president will say what they do doesn't work they are, and it doesn't work here. merkel will have to stand up for her own policies and speak to her specific audience. it should make for a very interesting news conference coming our way at about one: i 20. >> sandra: kevin just set it up for us. this is a big moment for donald trump, do you see this meeting being amicable? >> ari: and must be amicable. that's diplomacy, this is the way the leaders are when they gather with each other.

there's a lot of serious things to talk about and donald trump, the outsider, has the chance to make it a harder relationship or the easier relationship. it starts out harder because when you say a foreign chancellor has ruined her nations, that put you on a difficult start. no one likes to hear that you ruined urination. don't act on mike dimock he is also weighed in on internal german repairs. we don't like other nations to talk about -- and this diplomacy, you don't do that. only five of the 28 nations play their 2% or more as a requirement to be nato members. poland, estonia, united kingdom, and greece. the major european allies are not pulling their fair share of

the weight and they need to. >> sandra: these will be serious discussions they're having today. he had on some of the topics, nato, ukraine, isis, a big meeting happening right now. >> gillian: just to take on to what ari was saying there, people in social media get mad at me when i talk about why the united states need other countries, but the reality is that we do. there are important reasons why we need germany these days and why president trump and the chancellor are going to be forced to really come together and knock heads on these issues. one is in the wake, germany will be the only major power center inside the european union and will need them to use them as an and road. the other thing that we need to work with them on and a much better way is intelligence sharing. that's a relationship that has kind of fallen by the wayside. it needs to be built back up.

i think that's something they'll probably be focusing on today. how the united states and germany can work more cooperatively. >> sandra: to quote angela merkel, she told a german newspaper it's always better to talk with each other than about each other. >> harris: that's for certain. i'm looking forward to this news conference this afternoon. one of the subjects has to do with the refugee situation and illegal immigration. how you deal with all that? you say normally, you don't talk about what a country does. if president trump is so different. he has talked about that and he talks about his own. which we normally don't do either. i look forward to that bilateral news conference today at about 1:00 today eastern. you'll have those newspapers are presented in that room and it will be end really interesting to say with the texture of the questions are. will she have to be on the defense and say this is why we let a million people in?

it didn't work out or it did work out. what could she possibly say? >> ari: i think she will take the step defending what she's done is very proud. what germany has gone through in terms of integrating east germany into west germany after the collapse of communism. what it means for angela merkel who came from east germany, germany has a tradition of bringing people in who didn't necessarily fit the old west german model. that stands to immigrants. germany is making a proud stand for refugees fleeing. >> sandra: the chancellor has admitted if she could go back in time a few years ago and start this process over, she was certainly a just a few things. when she stands up there at the joint news conference, will be think about moments of the campaign trail.

>> meghan: i have to say, and my own personal experience, some of the people who have trash talk me the most have become my greatest friends because they give you honest feedback. this is one of those meetings where instead of -- there's a lot of love there, this will be a test for president trump with diplomacy aired on the other side, chancellor merkel is the last remaining figure of the leftist, globalist era of obama that really took over a lot of europe and the united states and has clearly gone out the window with a populist movement in europe. she represents an entirely different ideology, it will definitely be interesting to see what they come up with. >> harris: president obama spoke there. you have the actual visual of the president being there. back to this idea of how they will put out an outward public

representation of what went on behind closed doors, i'm curious from your experience, how much of that is real? will will we see that play out e news conference? or is there a whole lot that will be held back? >> ari: they will get along. i used it to have a chair in those rooms, so i would watch these heads of state get together. there, they figure out how to get along. they don't want to clash. leaders don't want to do the clashing. if they are is clashing to be done, they let someone else do it. they want to talk to someone about things they agree about. i don't think donald trump will pounded his fist. i think he saves that for the public and doesn't do it in private. >> gillian: what is different and interesting, we know that

president trump admires strong leaders as he calls them. you can levy many criticisms at her, but she's been a very strong leader for germany and in that respect, i wonder if she might actually like her. >> meghan: she's done a lot of business with potent, and we all know that donald trump is a very interesting relationship with putin and i would be interested to know if they discuss her interactions and how she feels about these claims, because that's one of the topics you know will come up in their meeting today. again, an entirely different worldview from what we've seen so far on newton and the unit u ukraine. >> ari: germany turned itself into a suburb of moscow when it comes to energy reliance. they get so much of their natural gas from moscow that they gave up energy. it germany is a huge trading partner with moscow. >> sandra: bloomberg is reporting that she, before she left for this visit with our president, she spoke to the

chinese president to reaffirm their common support for free trade and open market. you wonder what sort of discussion or questions you may receive that. >> ari: i think that's normal. these nations do extensive amounts of trade with china. i don't think we are in the old ages of where you have to play china against russia. i think we are all beyond that. >> sandra: i asked you how you think sean spicer is doing. >> ari: i used to spend my lunch hours briefing the press corps, this is a lot better. >> sandra: it could be make or break moment as republicans try to rally support for their bill to replace obamacare as president trump claims he switched some no votes to yes during a meeting a short while ago at the white house. whether the president can work his art of the deal magic to

pass this bill. plus, the white house pushing back after senate until leaders is a there's no evidence that trump tower was wiretapped. the fiery white house press briefing you do not want to mis miss. >> i've done plenty of reporting on all this. >> no, you want to cherry pick one comment. >> that has all been looked at. >> how do you know all this? how do you seem to be such an expert in this? that's why you drink ensure. with 9 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. for the strength and energy to get back to doing... ...what you love. ensure. always be you.

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>> meghan: white house firing back after senate intelligence leaders say they've seen no evidence that trump tower was wiretapped. in a very contentious briefing, sean spicer defending the administration and lasting the media's double standard. >> are you saying despite the findings of the senate intelligence committee -- >> they are not findings. there is a statement out today that they have not begun -- it's interesting to me, when one entity says one thing that claims one thing, you guys covered ad nauseam. when devin nunes came out and

said it's very possible yesterday, there's crickets from you guys. where was her passion and where was your concern when there is no connection to russia? it's crickets from you guys. >> we have done plenty of reporting on all of this. >> you want to cherry pick one piece of commentary. how do you know all this? how do you seem to be such an expert in this? >> meghan: meantime, we can learn more about potential wiretapping evidence on monday. when i watched spicy yesterday, it's like "snl" imitating art imitating life, it's 1 degree away from the sketch. >> ari: i love watching. what i want to stay there, but i love watching it. the job of the press secretary is to channel the president.

it's to reflect with the president wants reflected. you have to carry the president's words. it's for him to do what donald trump wants him to do and i think sean is doing that. >> sandra: should he be confronting the press like that? >> ari: sometimes yes, sometimes no. his a statement for where is your passion for dismissing the stories about russia? sean is 100% right and i'm so glad to see this pushback. the only thing i would advise is to smile a bit more. if everything is so contentious and hot in that room, he can make people feel little uncomfortable. to the degree that john can mix it up with the humor -- that was brilliant. a little more of that. >> harris: a little more "snl" is what you're talking about. >> ari: not everything is life and death in that room.

it >> ari: will break in with some breaking news right now. we've been telling you this hour that the president is meeting with angela merkel. this is a meeting that had been postponed. all eyes are looking at this right now and we now have our first view of them at the white house. let's take a peek at that together. as they meet today, there are also scheduled for a bilateral news conference in about an hour from now. this is that photo op that we always see with the two leaders. every now and then, you may hear a little bit of audio come up on the tape here. i don't see either one of them talking. let's listen. >> how did your taco mr. president? speak out very good. >> did you talk about nato? >> many things.

>> thank you. >> harris: you heard the president they're answering a couple of questions, he was asked how their talk went, he said very well, and they covered a host of different things. that news conference that's coming up in about an hour, we fully anticipate that they will talk about immigration in the refugee situation that all of europe has been dealing with, particularly, the chancellor 'as country because they have let so many people in that have traveled from countries that we are watching out for. let's talk about the topic where we were. >> meghan: about chancellor merkel or sean spicer? the question was going to ask you earlier, i've been in politics my entire life and i have friends, it doesn't matter

how much i talk to them about politics, they could not have been less interested in all of a sudden, they know who sean spicer is, they know who steve bannon's, they know who everyone in the trump administration is, but there upset about sean spicer. >> ari: i've always thought it was great. i loved that job and i really do think it's a wonderful place to be. you don't want to be the story. you don't want to be the extent of the story, you want to explain on behalf of the president. the >> gillian: you saw that exchange with the press that he's still hand during wiretapping allegations and he's accusing the press of a double standard. >> meghan: we have a clip right now. >> reporter: i'd like to talk to you about two topics.

>> i actually called the question. if you don't want to answer the question -- thank you. >> ari: they used to do that too. it's a ricochet. they try to get each other's questions answered if it wasn't officially answered before. i think it to be taken off the air, it should be an explainer of what the president is saying anymore respectful and thoughtful way and set up a tv show itself. >> harris: in all fairness, they were never this interesting before. you literally wouldn't be seeing them as often and as long if you are glued to the television. >> ari: and needs to calm down, and needs to return to normal. not everything can be red-hot.

>> sandra: some journalists are asking important questions and agreeing that the american people can watch a television and see these exchange is happening. >> ari: i think you're stronger and being better off with a briefing. >> harris: i know we are talking a little bit about the reactions and wiretapping, but there's been so much talk about what preceded that and that was the leaks in the president. i saw you recently and you said it's time for this president to show leadership on the leaks issue. what did you mean by that? >> ari: he has to set the tone. the issue here is the criminal investigation, what role should the white house have? the white house needs to make clear that they need to step back and allow investigators to find out who is responsible. >> harris: if you are the lectern and your ask about that, what kind of answer do you give? what were getting now is there is no evidence, there might be evidence, we can talk about it.

>> ari: wiretapping, unfortunately, it is one the greatest wastes of press i've ever seen. it was a sad moment when the president issued those tweets. he went too far. he had a negative truth, he hit his own nugget in the accusation of barack obama. this is a great lesson for donald trump. he's such a strong counter punter that sometimes he follows through and hits himself. if he hadn't gone that far, we wouldn't be talking about it. >> meghan: he just kept digging and digging and digging. i'm sure will continue talking about it. the new secretary of state, not mincing words with north korea. rex tillerson detailing some possible dire consequent as for the regime if they don't shape up, including primitive military action. what he says. plus, it's being called a make or break moment for republicans. how president trump is playing dealmaker on the g.o.p. health care bill. whoa, this thing is crazy.

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>> harris: the u.s. is talking tough on north korea. rex tillerson arrived in south korea where he floated the possibility of launching an air strike if they continue to pursue their ambitions. >> let me be very clear, the policy of strategic patients has ended. if north korea takes actions that threatens the south korean forces or our forces, that will be met with immediate response. if they elevate the threat of their weapons program to a level that we believe requires action, that option is on the table. >> harris: in an exclusive interview, secretary tiller's

and to rule out ways to keep north korea unchecked. when i first saw this a story breaking this morning, other news outlets were saying to larson says he's willing to go nuclear. no kidding. i'm so glad we played the entire thing again and i hope you will watch over and over. this isn't all that different from what we've been saying, but it is to the point. >> ari: all options are on the table, this is been our standard policy. bill clinton got lied to by north korea, george bush got lied to and barack obama got lied to by north korea. north korea is one of the last vestiges on earth on absolute totalitarian communist dictatorship for the people are suffering, oppressed, most of the country are put into prison camps. if there are so hungry and enslaved. it's one of the worst human rights countries around the world. frankly, we tried to negotiate,

we've tried to give them ammunition and food, and every time we do, they take what we give them and continue, against their word, to develop nuclear weapons. >> harris: you bring a great point. when you look at the health statistics of that world and how their suffering, it is a crime what they do to their own people. which brings us to tightening sanctions, which is what tillers and in others are talking about within the administration. how does that work and a country that is so cruel already? >> gillian: it doesn't work. an important distinction, i think, to be made here, getting the words right is actually important. second tillers and has done tha that. he's right to point out that diplomacy has failed. that is correct. but that doesn't mean that the path forward is clear, as you well know, or that there is any kind of an easy answer. any kind of tension here in this part of the world might lead to

escalated combat. the chinese foreign minister said yesterday that the united states and north korea were like two accelerating trains on a collision course. that's how i see the situation. it's explosive, but you have to be very careful. end of the words and the policy right. >> harris: we were talking earlier, on a different topic, but the secretary is walking out this diplomacy and words of the president. what does the presidency on this issue? "north korea is behaving very he tweets, badly. they have been "playing" the united states for years. china has done little to help!" >> ari: the president's right, the question is what will he do about it? we thought china was the solution, to put pressure on

china, to make north korea behave better. china won't play ball with us. they tolerate north korea's bad behavior, but they won't clamp down on. we really don't have many options. my hope is that it will crumble from within because he cannot stand. when the day comes, we hope it comes peacefully to north korea. >> sandra: rex tillerson has his work cut out for him. his words come of the world needs a new strategy. the policy of strategic patience has ended. >> gillian: the whole world needs a new strategy. >> harris: he's willing to go nuclear and test firing. i'm curious, this didn't work out the way we thought it would with a sanctions. what will work? >> ari: what he's saying is we will no longer rewarded for bad behavior and lying.

if you promise us that you will develop for nuclear weapons a set of six, will give you energy, food, and then north korea goes out and develops 12. the original lied to bill clinton was they were going to develop any nuclear weapons. north korea probably lied, which was discovered under the bush administration. they lied to bill clinton, and george bush. you can't work with foreign leaders, especially tyrants were lying. we need a missile defense and we need to be tough to have our allies in south korea. >> meghan: >> sandra: has been a make or break moment. ahead of next week the expected vote in the house. president trump, hosting a group of conservative house republicans at the oval office earlier, saying they are now all on board with the bill after previously opposing or

questioning it. if the president saying obamacare is dead and it's time to move forward with the gop's plan. watch. >> i want to let the world know, i am 100% in favor. these folks, and they are tough, and they love their constituents, and they love this country, these folks were nos, mostly nos yesterday and now, every single one is a "yes" ." i just want to thank you, we are going to have a health care plan that's going to be second-to-none. >> sandra: even if the bill passes in the house, it may be in danger of collapsing in the senate. repo again senator susan collins now says she will not support the bill in its current form. saying, this bill doesn't come close to achieving the goal of allowing low income seniors to purchase health insurance. we don't want to, and anyway, sacrifice coverage for people who needed the most. senator rand paul also said he will not vote for it. the public and leaders can only

afford to lose to republican votes in the senate, will remind you, and this is being called a make or break moment for paul ryan. do you see it that way? >> ari: if it doesn't pass in the house floor, it's a make or break moment for paul ryan. the fact that senators oppose it. this entity surpass its bill, and then he went to a conference to decide if you can compromise the two bills. i'm old school. i served on the hill in 1980s. congressman didn't comment on what was going on in the senate. i would love to return to those days, because with the senators pass a bill that they think should pass in the senate. if they don't have to reflect on the house bill. >> sandra: how would you describe the process now? >> ari: still get it done, this is the point. on the house bill, think about how much coverage there's been about how difficult this is, questions raised, can't pass.

our processes working on donald trump is a huge part of it. look how he's got his shoulder to the wheel, working legislators to get things done. this is progression. >> meghan: can i expect rand paul to be on the lawn saying we all came together, fantastic we have a bill, we're repealing and replacing? do you think the freedom caucus will do that? >> ari: i think it's too big to fail. republicans don't get their act together, a separate version of the house, separate version of the senate, and compromise. you can have flexible types of grants, you can have phase outs for medicaid funding. their stretching muscles that have been worked. >> meghan: that's to be expected? >> ari: yes, you have to allow members to express -- >> harris: you're also probably not a fan of him

banging on h157. we can move on from that. i take it from what you're saying, you're not all that worried right now. things like free market and exchange across state lines, they are backing away from that idea of health care for everybody. you think that's not as big of a deal because we haven't seen what the senate will do. >> ari: i hate to speak washington, but you cannot put those provisions in the repeal and replace bill, because you are to get 60 votes for anything that's new. >> harris: you don't think democrats will ever go for that? >> ari: it's interesting. there will be other inducements were democrats. largely, the burden is on republicans. we have to prevail. >> harris: this is watching history being made. >> meghan: this is the ultimate writer die moment for our president and republicans to pull it together. at six years of promises, we ran on repeal and replace.

>> gillian: president trump does not wanted to be trauma care. rightly so, you guys work out, you make the sausage, make it work, republican leadership, let me know how that turns out. >> sandra: is a day for corned beef. supreme court nominee nell gore such preparing for his confirmation hearing monday. at this is democrat they may filibuster, so what can we expect an early republicans go nuclear for lower back pain sufferers, the search for relief often leads here. today there's drug-free aleve direct therapy. a high intensity tens device that uses technology once only in doctors' offices. for deep penetrating relief at the source. aleve direct therapy.

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>> harris: it's washington, of course the battle lines are drawn. neil gorsuch which has his

senate confirmation hearing on monday. it democrats are expected to hammer him. senate minority leader chuck schumer says democrats may decide to block his nomination saying there's a great deal of skepticism about him. >> his record in his career clearly show, he harbors a right wing, pro-corporate special interest agenda. he enacted it time and time again on the tenth circuit, and if given the chance, i have no doubt he would do it again on the supreme court. the >> harris: democrats may have the votes to block course edge. republicans could go nuclear, changing the rules to require a simple majority vote. i'm a little confused by this, because i have read that former members of the obama administration had worked with

him and liked him a lot, found him to be very evenhanded and thoughtful. >> ari: i think all of us would be billionaires of we got a dollar every time chuck schumer used the word right wing or extreme. when chuck schumer is a broken record on these things, every time he's up against someone he doesn't like, this is the standard line. i think he is faced with a man who is up for reelection and states, almost all of them are given serious thought to voting for the judge. i think chuck schumer has a little bit of rebellion, but it's reflective in a liberal wing of the democrats. >> harris: what about the republicans on on board? >> ari: who's come out against him on republicans? nobody. people are sitting on their hands because they want to have the meetings on the hearings. >> harris: it's a vetting process? >> ari: i have a lot of faith,

let congress go through its normal routines, particularly a one party that is in charge of the house and senate. >> meghan: you are wildly on jaded by your time in washington, d.c. >> ari: it worked multiple times, especially under george bush. barack obama didn't have the interest -- >> harris: president obama wanted to put someone up. >> meghan: wanted trend start that anybody is the rightful heir to justice scully is a sea seat? you're so vilified for simile being conservative, and i do think that's a township since the time you were in d.c. >> ari: it started in 1987.

that really is the moment that people clashed in washington and never stopped clashing. it's only gotten worse since then. the biggest change, i would abolish the filibuster. that will help republicans, some years it will help democrats. it where it rules nation. the filibuster will block and not get it done. >> harris: because you've worked across two different demonstrations, i'm interested to get your idea about this question. why is it that someone in washington, it means the other site has to lose? >> gillian: all i can say -- i've been living in this city for ten years, what i will say is what president trump said the other day about in yesteryear,

republicans or democrats used to argue on the house and senate floor and then went out for drinks after, it doesn't really happen anymore. on a personal level. to go to the hill, you meet with senators and their staffers, there's so much vitriol. that's something that i don't think is going away, no matter how you negotiate policy, no matter how many votes health care gets passed by. that's something that's cultural. you have a change that in washington. >> harris: they have to do it "outnumbered" style. like an orange juice. >> meghan: or jack daniels. >> harris: rachel maddow is facing some serious backlash for her report on president trump's taxes. now she says the negative reception is not her fault. she is shifting blame. ♪

>> heather: you may have heard we've got some significant breaking news tonight. donald trump's tax returns have surfaced. at least a portion of donald trump's past tax returns. >> meghan: the bombshell that turned out to be a noncontroversy. rachel maddow deflecting the blame. the msnbc host suggests it was her viewers fault for getting too excited about what turned out to be a two page document showing the president had millions of dollars. she said just because i've information on the president doesn't mean as a scandal. if other people leapt to that conclusion without me indicating it was that is external to what we did. i think that statement is a tornado of stupid and i don't like reading stupid things.

>> ari: it didn't take her long to blame those few who watch her. she's got the dead sea scrolls, so i can't wait to see -- >> harris: msnbc is upset with her. the nb's don nbc part of msnbct with her. >> meghan: she had a countdown clock, they were promoting it. >> gillian: what were we supposed to get out of this tweet? it happened 17 minutes before she went live that night. >> sandra: i'm wondering, your perspective from the white house, what was the white house doing when that tweet went out?

do you think the white house was scrambling? what happened? >> ari: there are probably wondering what she had, how much she had. during the tease of the show, they are able to get ahead of the story. >> harris: do you call the network? normally, the network getting you an opportunity to comment. >> ari: i don't think the phones in the white house are connected to the cable station. >> harris: apparently, from what i'm reading, they found out the same way everyone else did. >> meghan: it was fantastic. i told you, i got caught into watching it. it 20 minutes and, i said this is the dumbest -- i was going to watch the real housewives, i missed it. it trying to interpret to my friends what's going on. donald trump is a wealthy man

who played a lot in taxes. well done rachel maddow. the >> harris: where is this mailbox where things out of nowhere? >> gillian: there's never anything interesting in my inbox besides spam. >> meghan: more "outnumbered" in just a minute, will be right back what if technology

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>> we are back on tv on monday, and we want to thank ari fleischer, great to have you. speak i hope you let me become a sophomore. >> would you ever become a press secretary again? >> no. >> short answer. >> he did agree to return to "outnumbered." "happening now" happening now. >> heather: the president trying to put differences aside, buckling german chancellor angela merkel to the white house. a joint news conference scheduled for this hour and welcome to you for the second hour of "happening now." i'm heather childers and for jenna lee. >> leland: i have had a lot of differences especially during the campaign, i am leland vittert info jon scott. this is the first meeting since president trump's heated rhetoric during the campaign come a few minutes ago inside the oval office there were some awkward moments that we will explore a little bit more. right now, there is a roundtable discussion with u.s. and german business leaders. news conference coming up here, they are running behind, probably about a