puppy day. he rode a horse to work his first day. his love for animals is clear. here he is with his own pup. now he's taken it to a new level allowing k-9s in the workplace. we'll see you later. >> shepard: it's noon on the west coast, 3:00 on capitol hill. we're about to hear from paul ryan if we wait to see if tonight's healthcare vote will even happen. president trump keeping up the pressure on twitter. >> go with our plan. it's going to be terrific. you'll be very, very happy. call your local representative, call your senator. >> shepard: right now there's no deal, a group of republican senators is blocking the bill. we're live on capitol hill and at the white house. the president claims he was right about president obama wiretapping trump tower because of what the house intelligence committee chairman said yesterday. one democrat on the panel said

devin nunes has apologized for taking the information to the white house. the democrat said the information may have come from the white house it evidence is. for evidence? the president's own words. let's get to it. first from the fox news desk this thursday afternoon, the republican plan to replace and repeal obamacare is in big trouble this hour. the american healthcare act doesn't have the votes to pass in the house. this morning the president applied pressure, but conservative lawmakers wants more change. there's a vote scheduled for today. the leader of the house freedom caucus mack meadows says he hopes changes can come if they can get an agreement by 7:00 p.m. the white house said the two sides are making progress. a live look here outside the capitol hill meeting room where freedom caucus members have been discussing the healthcare bill. we have another camera outside speaker ryan's office where he's

been meeting with key republicans. the problem is this. if they make the changes the conservatives wants, it's expected moderates would bail. repealing and replacing obamacare was one of president trump's biggest promises. failing to pass the bill could have a play you're political blow to his administration. the republicans have been promising to repeal obamacare seven years now. they voted more than 50 times to dismantle it it. now they have the power to get it done what they can't reach is agreement. without it, repeal and replace won't happen. john roberts is live there for us this afternoon. how did the president's meeting go with these freedom caucus members, john? >> shep, good afternoon. they said they left the white house without a deal in hand, this is probably the third or fourth time they've been over here in recent days, shep. the white house is spinning this positively. sean spicer had a briefing

saying a couple members of the freedom caucus stood up and said mr. president we're with you now. but a number of them are still not. what they're worried about the regula story structure of the new big. they say it's the same as the obamacare bill. they want to get rid of the essential health benefits. things guaranteed as minimum benefit requirements by obamacare. they say that they need to get those out, start from scratch. those are the things that are driving up the cost of health insurance and healthcare. the danger for the white house, if it throw as bone to conservatives, on the other hand as you mentioned, they may start to alienate moderates. there's 30 members of the house freedom caucus but 50 members of the moderate group and the president will be talking to them this afternoon around 5:00 as well. here's sean spicer with more. >> he's meeting with members of the tuesday group today. obviously this is something that they understand, there's a balancing act that goes on as you try to get 216 in this case. i think we continue to make

progress every day. we walked out with more members in support of the american healthcare act today than we started the day with. i continue to see that number climb hour by hour. i get there. >> there's a potential problem in the senate, shep. even if they get a deal to put it to a vote in the house, there's the bird rule. it has to pass six tests for the bill in order to be brought on the floor of the senate. there's the scheme emerging against republicans to get a bill that takes all of that regulatory structure out of it and get it passed the bird rule. it's in the weeds in byzantine. the white house thinks they can get it done. so they're hopeful if they can get it through the house, make the argument before the senate, they might drive this thing through. first, they have to get a vote in the senate. >> sean spicer is sounding confident about getting this vote in the house of

representatives. the chairman of the freedom caucus says the votes aren't there. what am i missing? >> they're getting them a vote at a time basically, shep. you win people over one vote at a time. they have to get to 216. there's 237 republican members in the house. at the moment, they probably don't have the votes. all they need to do is pick-off a few. i talked to sean spicer. they're thinking they couldn't get 221, maybe 222 votes. but it's going to take a lot of arm twisting and take time. here's spicer. >> the end of the day, we can't make people vote. we have done everything we can to listen to them, to incorporate their thoughts, to incorporate their ideas to make the bill as best we can. it's a balancing act. make no mistake about it. there's a full spectrum of folks in the house that have different desires. >> we still don't know what will be in the bill. our producer on the hill said

even if they got everything underway now, it would be after midnight when a vote happened. is this the sort of bill you want to vote through in the middle of the night? >> shepard: john roberts on the north lawn. we'll have live updates for the players involved as they happen. the president standing by his unfounded claim that president obama had trump tire wiretapped pointing to comments from the head of the house intelligence committee as vindication. the chairman still says the allegations of wiretapping were false. he's apologized to his colleagues for bringing information to the president before them. now they say the house chairman is not fit to lead any kind of investigation involving the president. devin nunes came to the mic and talked about secret intercepts that may have involved the trump transition team and possibly even the president himself. congressman nunes said the surveillance was legal, but some

of it seemed inappropriate in his eyes. he didn't take it to his fellow committee members. instead after briefing the press, he took to it the white house. president trump took it as vindication that he was right about the wiretapping. he said so with "time" magazine. in that interview, the president said when i said "wiretapping" it was in quotes because a wiretapping is today different than wiretapping. it's just a good description. wiretapping was in quotes. what i'm talking about is surveillance. today, meaning yesterday, the house intelligence chairman devin nunes just held a news conference. now probably got obliterated by what happened in london. here it is, one of the things. the other one, election. i said we would win and we won and many other things. this will be very interesting. the president read off headlines about the nunes announcement and

added so that means i'm right. fbi director james comey has said the fbi and the justice department have no evidence to support the wiretapping claims. the republican intelligence committee chairman that he's citing says the president is wrong. but the president says he's right. he's not worried about his credibility. the "time" magazine article was about false statements, a transcript of the interview includes this. i inherited a mess in so many ways. i inherited a mess in the middle east, north korea, a mess with jobs, despite the statistics. my statistics are better but they're not the real statistics because you have millions of people that can't get a job, and i inherited a mess on trade. we have many. you can go up and down the ladder. that's the story. hey, look, in the meantime, i can't be doing so badly because i'm president and you're not, hello? say hello to everybody, okay?

the president's words to "time" magazine. congressional aides says nunes apology gu-- apologized to colleagues. >> it was a judgment call. a lot going on. a judgment call on my part. at the end of the day, sometimes you make the right decisions, sometimes the wrong ones. you have to stick by your decisions. >> shepard: but he got it out there. he says he has no problem running an investigation on team trump. they have questioned whether congressman nunes is acting as a surrogate for the white house. congress woman jackie spears says they might have fed nunes the information. >> i'm of the opinion this is orchestrated either from the

white house or by possibly someone associated with the white house. >> shepard: she said she recalled a comment donald trump made in a fox news interview earlier this month where she said the white house will be submitting things before the committee soon that has not been submitted yesterday. the white house responding. >> i don't know that that makes sense. i didn't sit on that briefing. i'm not -- doesn't -- so i don't know why he would travel, brief the speaker and brief us on something that we would have briefed him on. doesn't really seem to make a ton of sense. i'm not aware of it. doesn't pass the smell test. >> shepard: but he didn't deny it. catherine herridge is in washington. catherine, what else are we learning about the reports nunes talked about? >> the staff says it is separate

from the russian probe. the staffer said another scenario is under consideration by lawmakers and called reverse targeting. it's a practice says where the government targets americans under the guys of surveilling an overseas citizens. >> we have to keep our sources and methods here very quiet. i've told the american people that we want people to come to us, bring us information if they have it. >> the ranking democrats said on abc today that the bipartisan probe is badly damaged. >> we need to do a real investigation of this. we need to do it credibly, do it in a nonpartisan way and we can't have our chair acting as a surrogate for the administration. he has to have the surrogate

role or the chairman role but can't do both. >> the briefing said reporters should focus on the content, what was in the intelligence reports and not the issue of the process, who got briefed first, shep. >> shepard: another deadline looming at it relates to surveillance info. can you tell us about that? >> nsa that runs the government surveillance programs said they will respond by friday's deadline. this was a request by the house intelligence committee. they lodge the complaints for americans that swept up in the unmasking. the republican and democratic members want the last six months of 2016 and whether members of the trump and clinton teams were identify in the surveillance. the c.i.a. and fbi have not responded to the request with the chairman characterizing the information. we have senior administration

officials under the obama white house and fox news has been told they're recalling the fbi director and the nsa director is not out of the question at this point. >> shepard: catherine herridge live for us this afternoon. appreciate it, cat. >> you're welcome. >> shepard: we're waiting for paul ryan to talk to reporters. we're expecting to hear more on the healthcare bill and whether or not republicans have come together with the votes to pass it. first, the freedom caucus and its power play. what is this group? they were formed in the day under president obama to push back against obama era legislation. the question is, have they come together to the degree where they can legislate themselves? we get into that coming up from the fox news deck on this thursday afternoon. at old dominion, we see freight... ...as a combination of products and customers. every on-time arrival is backed by thousands of od employees,

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the president tried to bring the house freedom caucus over and its leader and they couldn't. so now they're going member to member to member to pick-off the vote. it's tedious and time consuming. if you want to cajole somebody, you have to have something to give them. we're devoid of carrots to give them. we have shane here with us. good to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> shepard: how is this coming along? the chairman says they don't have the votes. the white house is convinced. what is happen something. >> the white house continues to get this done today. but less and less likely. it's after 3:00. not only does it take time to get a bill on the floor, they don't know what the bill would say yet. if they're going to get the votes from the house freedom caucus, they need to make changes. the huge challenge is the house freedom caucus as you said before was created during the obama administration, this is a group of people that came together to vote no.

they tried to pull the caucus to the right. they succeeded together, but they haven't managed to vote yesterday. >> shepard: look what has happened now. there's breaking news now on fox news channel. this just in. the house speaker paul ryan scheduled news conference is no longer scheduled. it was to have begun like now. now it's not happening. what does that tell us? >> i think that's just another sign that this bill is not moving tonight. you're running out of hours in the day, this is actually a small setback for the trump administration. trump has sold himself with the art of the deal. he's the expect deal maker. he said he would get this done on time, on bucket, this thursday. now that's unlikely to happen. that said, if they have to push it back a day and still get the bill thus the house, the trump administration would take it. the last thing they want is to vote at 2:00 a.m. in the middle of the night and create fodder for democratic campaign ads in 2018.

>> many conservatives within the media and conservatives on capitol hill have labeled this ryan care. trying to put this in paul ryan's wheel house. many say if this goes down, paul ryan goes down. at the same time, paul ryan was say we work lock and step with the president. they're both full in on this, aren't they? >> they are, especially for donald trump who built his career branding things with the trump name. the trump hotel, the idea that he doesn't want this to be called trump care is super interesting. frankly pretty telling. neither he nor ryan wanted to have their name affiliated with it. they want to call it different entirely. they are in this together. trump needs ryan to get the votes and trump needs ryan to get them for him. it's up to donald trump to round up the votes. >> shepard: shane, one of the things we're watching us here, to see if they can get a

consensus through the house. once you get to the senate, you have a different set of battles to fight. mostly having to do with money and medicaid. more on the surveillance drama in d.c. there's word that the house intelligence chair has apologized to go to the white house first. but he's defending it publicly. he says one things to the camera and allow the president to have a line of i feel vindicated, but then later he apologized behind closed doors. it's confusing. next, i'll speak with a reporter that says the apology will do little to stop the growing controversy. stay with us. (vo) this is not a video game. this is not a screensaver. this is the destruction of a cancer cell by the body's own immune system, thanks to medicine that didn't exist until now. and today can save your life. ♪

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>> shepard: repealing and replacing obamacare is in big trouble this hour. last night at 7:00, there was

great optimism from the white house that they would cajole these votes that are necessary to pass this bill. this morning it seemed more likely the house freedom caucus, the group of conservatives, were not on board and are not. the president and speaker ryan met with them for much of the morning. the freedom caucus is still meeting right now. paul ryan was going to hold a news conference to see how they were getting the votes together but now it's been postponed indefinitely. that, according to the wire services, sent the s&p 500 southbound. in other words, the market turned around on this news. it now appears the american healthcare act or the repeal and replace of obamacare is in great jeopardy. if it falls, it will fall from within. the freedom caucus is against the structure of it. they call it obamacare light. they want it gone because they don't like the concept of it and they can't go home to their district and say i promised you

this, but i can't do it. the republicans are stuck for the moments. should speaker ryan come out or members of the freedom caucus, we'll take you there live right away. more on the intelligence committee and his chance to speak out about secret intercepts that may have involved the trump transition team. devin nunes apology guyed to his committee for going to the white house first. president trump is sticking with the claim that president obama wiretapped trump tower when there's flow evidence to support that of any kind at all. the white house says the substance of nunes information matters more than the process. let's bring in kimberly atkins. feels like look over here, look over here. >> yeah, that's what we're getting from the white house. quick to criticize reporters about focusing on the wrong things. sean spicer saying chairman

nunes got to the white house by a skateboard or car. >> shepard: what was the substance of it? >> that's unclear. not members of the intel committee have the information that he's referring to. they'll get that tomorrow. that's one of many things that angered the democrats. that's causing the intelligence community to take hit here. that's why the chairman was saying he did the best he could. sticking by his assertion it was important to notified the white house. >> shepard: is there -- this is something to run through the mill here is. there a long-term issue with this? the president has clearly misstated this. he said he was wiretapped. he wasn't wiretapped. there's no evidence to suggest he was. unless he came up with some, it didn't happen. is there a long-term danger from this that maybe some of his

followers don't understand or haven't thought about? >> i think you're seeing so far the president has been a teflon president. this is not the first controversial or provably false thing that he's said and he has survived so far. you see him in the "time" magazine interview and elsewhere that he put "wiretap" in quotes and he meant surveillance. chairman nunes was giving him cover there. on the senate said, they said there was no surveillance. we have two committees add odds. and the house committee taking the hit for booing to the white house before briefing their own members. >> shepard: is there pressure on the white house? >> i think so. that's why we're seeing the president and the white house press secretary go through these

contortions about what wiretap means and that's not what he means. i think there is a desire not to look like you're completely off base and completely add odds with congress over this. but the truth is that chairman of the committee gave them significant cover on that scent. i don't think the white house will let that game go based on what they have but causing a big rift in the committee. >> shepard: kimberly atkins, thanks so much. we have news developing on capitol hill. the question is whether there would be a vote tonight. the republican plan to repeal and replace obamacare. there may well be. but there are reports at this moment that the vote itself has just been cancelled. we're working to confirm this ourselves. this report is coming to us from politico. it reads "house leaders have cancelled the plan for the thursday night vote to repeal

and replace obamacare according to a gop vote." why would they cancel the vote? normally what happens is, they put out and idea, they survey their own members to find out how many votes they have. then they schedule a vote. in this case, they put out an idea, put it through committees for markup, brought it to -- on the way to bring it to the floor and said they -- they set a die for a vote without first counting their votes. they don't have the votes for it to pass, as least not as of 15 minutes ago. they could get more votes. but as of 15 minutes ago, the republicans don't have the votes to pass their own bill. so if you don't have the votes and you're in charge, why would you hold a vote and watch it go down in flames? you most postpone and change some minds. it's a reporting of politico that the postponement has happened and the associated

press is reporting the same thing. associated press has said the house leaders have delayed a vote on the bill, which setback the president's and speaker ryan's agenda. this just happened. we'll get our report from washington and beyond next.

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through a source that there will be no vote on repeal and replace of obamacare. no vote on the american healthcare act today. they have not set another day for the vote. this means essentially they didn't have the vote, didn't believe they could get the votes today so they postponed the vote until another day. continuing coverage after this.

>> shepard: there is breaking news now on fox news channel. repeal and replace will not get a vote in the house of representatives today. we just received word that republicans in the united states house, the republicans will hold a closed-door meeting on the healthcare bill 7:00 washington time this evening. we got word, we confirmed from politco, a.p. and others that the bill will not have a vote tonight and the market turned to the red. united healthcare is down a percent. the markets that had been in the green much of the day turned

south. the reality that this thing won't sail alongmer merrily is setting in. mike emanuel is on capitol hill with more. what are conservatives saying after this? >> they're saying that the leadership did not have the votes. so what we've seen is paul ryan was supposed to be doing a news conference this hour. we just got word that the house has said there won't be any votes tonight. leadership is saying that to rank and file members. they're telling the members to be around tomorrow. votes are possible tomorrow. there's a bit of an optic problem if you were to do votes in the middle of the night. perhaps that's one of the consideration to are repealing and replacing obamacare at 3:00 a.m. may not be the right image you want out there. bottom line, conservatives say after talks with leadership, leadership doesn't have the votes. >> we're certainly trying to get to yes, but indeed, we've made

very reasonable requests and we're hopeful that those reasonable requests will be listened to and ultimately agreed to. >> it's a tricky spot that this puts paul ryan in. if you move it to the right to apiece the freedom caucus, you risk alienating moderates that like some of the things that were in the bill to make it easier for some people to cuevas their coverage. there was something called essential health benefits, part of obamacare, the moderates wanted to keep it. it was popular with their constituents. conservatives say let's strip it out to reduce premium costs. so it's walking a tight rope. if you move it to the rights, you lose your center, so to speak. if you move to it the center, then you right losing the conservatives. so they're trying to find what speaker paul ryan has called the sweet spot. they don't believe they have the votes at this point. >> shepard: from all we've seen, speaker ryan and the president

really put on the full-court press here, mike. multiple meetings with the freedom caucus at the white house, the president down right begging for votes saying we have to do this. if you don't do this, many will lose your jobs, you'll gets voted out of office and our legislative agenda will be in trouble, this would be the first success for the presidency. to this to go down in flames according to analysts would be very bad for this white house. >> no question about it. you heard speaker paul ryan saying if you want tax reform at some point, something republicans want to do and have wanted to do for many years, they say doing this obama care repeal is first to strip out the taxes that are in obamacare. that was part of the selling point of doing it. the president putting a lot of political capitol in trying to get this across the finish line. democrats are saying this president has shown signs of making a rookie mistake. >> they're scrambling to find a bill that they can pass on the

floor. i don't know if you want call this on trump's part a rookie's error, but you don't find a day and say we're going to pass a bill. you build your consensus in your caucus. when your ready, you set the date to bring to it the floor. >> it's worth noting that once there's a deal, if there is a deal, you have to go through a multistep process. it's a lot of sausage making. you don't want people's eyes to glaze over at home, but this is not an instantaneous process here on capitol hill, especially with an issue this complicated. lawmakers will want to know if there is an agreement, what is in it, how much does it cost and will it improve the lives of their constituents. if not, some of those that may be tentative yeses could become nos, shep. >> so when you're in charge, your party is in charge, you come up with ideas and a bill, you check with your members, see if you have the votes. if you have them, you have

enough to pass it and then you vote. that's the process. in this case, they scheduled the vote without having to vote. now have they scheduled another date? what is this consensus, chad? are they going to vote at some other team? >> it's possible they could vote tomorrow. there's a lot of things that have to line up. they have to make sure they have an agreement first. that's not there. they have to get this built into legislative text. there's parliamentary gymnastics they have to go there. they're very concerned to vote in the middle of the night. you need to have what we call in the house representatives bed check votes. you get people to the floor, you see how many are there. even if they do have the votes at some point, whether that be tomorrow or over the weekend or even into next week, this is going to be a tight needle to thread. so you want to have the bed check votes where you see how many people are there, you go through the house and go through

your whip operations and say are you here, are you leaning yes or no. that takes time. they're not ready to go. remember the accusation that republicans made and democrats say this isn't exactly true, said that the democrats, they passed obamacare through the house of representatives in the senate and jammed it through. they talked about the christmas eve day vote on the first version of obama in 2009. they don't want any sort of interpretation that they have done that. this is dangerous. this gets wonky but it's very important, this is being handled through what is called a budget reconciliation package. it's not a garden variety bill so they can get around filibusters in the united states senate. if this were a garden variety bill, this would be subject to a filibuster in the senate. from a parliamentary stand points, if you were to defeat a reconciliation bill in the house or senate, it's murky if you can

bring it back. so if they go into this and blow it up, any chance to do anything with obamacare, that's out the window. they have to be very careful and make sure that they have the vote count down to the tee when they do go, if they go. >> shepard: this isn't a small matter, chad. the conservatives don't like the structure at all. they call it obama care light. they don't think the government needs to be in this business and they don't seem to be willing to change their mind. >> that's one thing that mark meadows said. he's the chair of the freedom caucus. he's not the conscious of the freedom caucus. he doesn't vote in their districts. he doesn't represent those people. he has to speak only for his district and they have to speak for the people in their district. that's where they talked about this title one of obamacare. the essential health benefits. that they required the bills in every health package that is insured under. maternity leave care, medicine and so on.

that does drive up the costs. to get rid of those things, you probably start to save. the question is how good is the care at that stand point. that's what the freedom caucus is pushing for. so far we haven't seen that the freedom caucus and president trump, remember, the art of the deal, have they have come to an agreement. >> shepard: chad, i don't want to interrupt you but i have to. the president is about to speak. i want to hear this. it's interesting. the president had a camera thing just a few minutes ago. literally a minute or two before we had the report that the vote tonight is cancelled. there were some questions about this. this is a white house type play back. listen. >> first of all, thank you for your support on healthcare. i know you had a big problem with obamacare. everybody does. so welcome to the crowd. i very much appreciate you being here and i appreciate your support.

i'm honored to welcome all of the many truckers and the trucking industry leaders to the white house. i must say, you are the leaders. you are the big ones. very impressed i got you. no one knows america like truckers know america. you see it every day and you see every hill and you see every valley and you see every pothole in our roads that have to be done. every town, every forest from border to border, ocean to ocean. it's true. you love america and you love the spirit and we love your spirit. we wants to thank you. special people. through day and night and all kinds of weather, truckers course the nation's highways. you carry anything and everything. the fuel that runs our cars, the food that stocks ourselves and the steel that builds our cities. you think i wrote that?

not bad. [laughter] i want to save that paragraph. but america depends on you. you work very hard for america. many of you spend weeks away from your families doing what can sometimes be a very difficult and dangerous job, to put it mildly. you take care of yourselves. you look at your friends and you don't stop until the job is done. that's true. obamacare has inflicted great pain on american truckers. >> shepard: we bright you the beginning of that tape play back because we wanted you to hear that he had the support on healthcare but the trust is, he doesn't have the support. since then, we've been asked if the white house will vote on the cancellation of the white house. the white house has said no comments. the there will be comment. when it happens, we'll bring it to you. let's get back to chad. he was explaining to us what it is that the right wants. this conservative freedom

caucus. they want the structure to go away. they want government less in it. they want less government money going to medicaid. conservatives have been trieding to get the medicaid entitlement to some degree out of the way and lessened, move the burdens to the state. really since the reagan administration. they've been pushing hard trying everything they can to lowter entitlement. this is the one spot that you can get it done. this is the one time because of the process that chad described where you wouldn't have to have 60 votes. you wouldn't have to have a filibuster proof majority. only need 51 votes. the conservative freedom caucus is like don't miss it up. to get rid of entitlements, let's do it right now. the moderates have different thoughts. that's the tuesday group. there's about 50 of them in total. let's bring back chad. the moderates, if the freedom caucus got what they wanted, the moderates wouldn't have what they want. >> yeah.

this is a balancing act. you fix one situation, which is what they appeared to do to some degree but broke it with the tuesday group, the republicans there, charlie dent, who is the chair of that group, there was a meeting with house speaker paul ryan and other leaders last night. some of the folks came out and they did not say a word. they've been very circumspect. a lot of them have gotten on board. you have to remember that president trump down to the white house. i talked to a few of them privately. they feel like they've been sold down the river. they changed the goal posts. they haven't courted the freedom caucus fully here. if you haven't courted the two polls, you're in trouble. that's why they're having trouble. you press on this area, that goes up. you press on the other side that goes up. it's almost like goldilocks. not too hot, not too cold but just right. they're not there yet. >> did the leadership realize they wouldn't get there? did they'd think they had a sway

to move them? what happened? >> the freedom caucus has always been a thorn in the side of congressional leadership. there's a reason by john boehner is no longter speaker of the house. as soon as people got him out the door in october of 2015, people said it would be different under paul ryan. new speaker, but same membership. that's one part. the tuesday group, the moderate section, they feel like they have taken tough votes for a long time. they have given at the alter for many years and never got anything in return. those are the so-called majority makers. many of these moderate republicans represent districted which voted for hillary clinton or where obamacare is very popular. if they turn and vote for something that isn't acceptable in their district, that's where maybe president trump says they could lose the majority in the house of representatives. you have to remember the first mid-term elections under a

president are very dangerous. looked what bill clinton in 1994. the republicans got the house back for the first time in 40 years. look at the bloodbath that democrats lost in 2010 after they passed obamacare. they have to make sure that this bill is right for their district at the end of the day. >> shepard: you say the more moderat moderates,some of them representing more moderate districts. their seats are in jeopardy. the freedom caucus, largely those members are from districts where would be difficult to lose because of the structure of the districts. their jobs are not so much in jeopardy. that's why they can be a thorn in the side of the rest of them. >> absolutely. the moderates say they'll get their votes in their district. they'll win that seat by 75, 80%. why don't they make some of their ask its mad and win with 6 60%, 55%. that's the issue there. they have to make sure when they go to this vote, shep -- i want to point out something else that is important.

they can't make the vote too narrow. they don't have much margin for error. nancy pelosi, when she was the speaker of the house, probably the best vote counter in the house of representatives. she passed the first version of healthcare 220 to 215 in november 209. turn three votes and they don't pass the bill. you don't want to pass the bill by just one. why? they can point to that person, whoever that deciding vote is who was the deciding vote to repeal and replace obamacare. so you need a buffer, two or three vote there's to get around that. if they're looking at the vote counting and it's so close, they don't want to go there. we think it's deeper than that. 21 is the magic number. that's how many they can lose and looks like that threshold when you get the tuesday groups, the moderates, the freedom caucus, the conservative group, probably well above 21 right now. >> shepard: it's a different thing to be in the opposition

than it is to be in charge and doing the government. thanks, chad, our producer from capitol hill. big picture if you're the white house. the president has been talking about repeal and replace obamacare since before he was president. long before he was a candidate for the presidency. he's staked much of his legislative agenda on it, this would be his first legislative accomplishment and he was looking forward to it. folks inside the white house said he needed the win. president trump thrives on winning. he talks about it over and over again. if he gets that win, he can show that win, here's what we done. here's why we're keeping our promises. the opposite of that is upon us. john roberts is upon us. that cannot be easy for the white house. >> as you said, he likes to win. he doesn't like to lose. we've seen that in business and as a celebrity and now as a relatively new president. so one of the reasons why they polled this today is because it

looked like they were to have a vote tonight, they were clearly not going to win. so the president is content to bide his team, cobble together the votes. he's very good at twisting arms and making deals. he met with the freedom caucus. he will be meeting with the moderate tuesday group at 5:00 p.m. it was looking for all intents and purposes like the clock was running out. he hopes to twist more arms and get a few more people on his side so when it's put up to a vote should it could to that, that he will carry the day. that i do want one person to vote -- >> shepard: excuse me, john. our viewers are watching a three box. i'm in the main one. upper right of the screen is a huge scrum of reporters and microphones and cameras. that is outside the chairman of

the freedom caucus' office. we thought he was going to come to the camera. they want to talk to him, all of those pesky reporters there. they want to hear from him. so far they're not able to do that. i said he needs to win. that's not to say he won't get it. they're certainly going to start debating this bill. they can get more votes in there and make it happen in the house and make it senate but it's not coming today. >> shepard: no, he could get the win but not today. whether you get the victory on a thursday, that's one thing but you might get it friday or maybe next tuesday. a win is a win especially with this peace of legislation. the president is doing whatever he can to win people over, through using a carrot or a stick. he was warning people you could have a bloodbath in 2018 and

lose congress. now he's more to cajoling mode. couple people over for lunch yesterday. he's having meetings today. he looked at the way things were going today, shep and said we're not going to get this today. if we do, it's not until the middle of the night with a significant piece of legislation like that, you don't want to hold that when everybody is sleeping. you want it in the light of day. whether it happens today, tomorrow, next week. as long as it's before the easter break. >> shepard: this is mark meadows, the chairman of the freedom caucus. listen in. it's crowded in there. the thinking is he would come to the camera and make a statement. if you saw the sausage being

made, you probably wouldn't eat it. you're seeing this sausage being made, doesn't mean you shouldn't trust it. here's the chairman. let's see if he has something to say. mark meadows, the chairman of the freedom caucus. >> here's what i'd like to ask you all to do. give it up for our law enforcement officers today. say thank you. all right. so here we are tonight, continuing to debate this in good faith. not only with our own conference, but certainly with the president engaged. we have not gotten enough of our members to get to yes at this point under what we're currently considering. however, i would say progress is

being made. that progress that is being made is really -- should be applauded with the efforts of the white house to try to not only deliver on a campaign promise but deliver lower premiums for every american from coast-to-coast and in between. so i would say that at this point the president engagement is unparalleled i believe in the history of our country to actually engage a number of members, whether they be moderates or conservatives. it's indicative of a president that wants to solve problems. even meeting with something like elijah cummings on drug -- prescription drugs, actual costs and price. what he -- he said today in the meeting was he singled out

elijah cummings. this is a president that wants to get things done. the freedom caucus is committed to working with the president to get this done. this artificial deadline that we have at this particular point of a vote tonight actually is something that we imposed on ourselves. so i'm very encouraged and optimistic that if we continue to work together and by that, we plan to reach out to some of the members of the tuesday group to have some real discussions on how we can come together to have consensus realizing there's different motivations for different members of our conference. >> aren't you handing the president a loss? >> what happens going forward? what's on the table? >> the procedures for going forward are still fundamental and they have not changed. if we can make sure that there's

an adequate safety net, premium goes down for moms and dads, that's what it's about. that's what i heard over and over again. does this bill loser premiums significantly enough to make a difference for people that are struggling to pay for healthcare. i think that we have that at the very core of where we are. >> do you know if this will be doa in the senate? >> i've had a number of discussions with senate colleagues, both some are considered to be very conservative and some not quite as conservative. i'm interested that we can find common ground with 51 or 52 senators in that way. i would be hopeful -- i won't go there. we'll say 51 or 52 senators. >> [question inaudible] >> in talking about specifics,

i'm not going to do that. that's what everybody wants to hear, what would get you here. we communicated that very effectively with the president and his staff. but it's really not about what i want. it's about what those constituents want back home. so in doing that, we started reviewing some of the texts that the administration and our leadership has put forth. there were a number of questions that it did and didn't do. we had a with question here now, does this unfairly penalize veterans. we're not sure of that answer. if we're not sure of those answers, we need to read the bill and understand the bill fully before we take a vote on it. does it give the president a loss? absolutely not. we're going to get to the finish line because the president is committed to get to the finish line. moderates and conservatives are committed to get to the finish line. when we get there, we'll applaud

a process that is the very fabric of who we are as an american people. debate real ideas that affect real people day in and day out. >> you have the veto power. >> you think you can vote tomorrow? >> i can tell you as soon as i get down here, i'm making a call to tom mcauthor. it's important to understand where the tuesday group is coming to. i would love to see 237 votes on the house side and would welcome any democrat that would come across as well. in this, we're not there at this particular point? >> is the speaker being unhelpful? >> no, no. i talked to the speaker this morning. i think the speaker has a very difficult task of trying to assemble 215 or 16 votes. when you look at that, they're working very hard