can be mean as you want, nice if you want, doesn't matter. call 877-225-8587. that's all the time we have left this evening. as always, thank you for beihih. "the first 100 days" with martha maccallum is up next. >> martha: breaking tonight, the most powerful democrat in congress is now calling for the republican investigating alleged spying by the obama administration to be removed from his post. as we learned new information tonight, suggesting how the obama white house may have been keeping tabs on men president-elect donald trump and his advisors. i am martha maccallum and it is day 67, everybody come after the first 100. the republican chairman of the house intelligence community, devon eunice, saying that he visited the white house grounds to see his source to look at these documents. he did that one day before he came back and made that now sort of famous appearance outside of the white house after he shared what he knew with president trump. showing members of trump

transition team had been inappropriately unmasked and obama era surveillance operations. tonight, chairman nunes goes further, detailing how he viewed those reports on a secretive trip to the white house compound where he met with intelligence officials who had access to a secure computer network who showed these things to him. it was in the executive branch documents that were the focus of that feeling. these new revelations are setting up democrat house minority leader chuck schumer, who has demanded that chairman nunes be removed from this pending investigation. >> chairman nunes is falling down on the job. he seems to be more interested in protecting the president then and speaking the truth without further ado. speaker ryan should replace chairman nunes. >> martha: here now, one of his republican committee colleagues, congressman trey gowdy, who was also a former chairman of the special select committee on benghazi and

a former criminal prosecutor. good to have you here. what do you make of the charge are called to step down to chairman nunes by chuck schumer? >> i love it when senator schumer gives republicans advice on what we ought to do. he is doing exactly what the chairman ought to do. when you have a sort that has information, you handle that information safely, securely, exactly what he did. i wish senator schumer and the democrats would be more interested in the authenticity and the reliability of the underlying data and not the means by which it was required. whether the white house or waffle house, what difference does it make if the information is reliable and authentic? it just so happens, devin had to do it this way. we want take advice from senator schumer. >> martha: everybody is wondering who the sources, who called him, there is a story about how he received a text and his car, with other staffers. got out of the car quickly,

left, went to the white house, we now know, view to the documents, then, goes back to show them to the president. that lines up to appear that the person who revealed all of this to him as either in the white house or was associated with the white house. the narrative on that has changed in the past two press briefings. let's watch. >> will you rule out that the white house or anyone in the trump administration give chairman nunes the information? >> i'm not aware of it but it doesn't pass the smell test. speak it appears there was cooperation in this process. the white house granted chairman nunez -- >> i will be glad to take a look at that and figure out whether it is accurate. >> martha: the door is open to the possibility that i came from the white house. does that matter? why? >> devin hasn't told us it came from the white house. i don't think the source matters, martha, nearly as much as whether or not the underlying information is authentic and credible. keep in mind, devin has also

says this has nothing to do with russia. for those who missed at the first time he said, he said it again. nothing to do with russia. we have gotten to the point for the chairman of the house intelligence committee cannot go gather information related to our surveillance programs and cannot operate the commander-in-chief on the nature of that information, we are at a really strange place. i realize that democrats don't like the fact that president trump won but he did and it devin is the chairperson of the intelligence community. he has an obligation to update the commander-in-chief and information like this. >> martha: they were supposed to be a hearing to move this ball further. that open hearing was canceled and now, the a closed hearing is in question, where you all would like to question again the fbi director called me and the head of the nsa, as well. write us at stand? will you have that? >> i hope we have it at some point. i hope it is behind closed doors or confidential prey of almost

100 times, director comey and admiral roger said they could not answer the questions in that setting. if you really are on a quest for the truth and quest for facts, why you would pick a forum which guarantees the witnesses cannot answer the question befuddles me. i would love to bring up for that. we have to bring them back. they are foundational, seminal witnesses. almost 100 times, they said they couldn't answer in a public setting. i don't why would go that way. >> martha: quickly, jared kushner is going to answer questions about his meeting with the russian banker whose bank was under sanctions at the time. what are your questions? what would you want to know about that relationship? >> that is a senate investigation. he will give testimony before the senate. i am easy. i want to know every fact there is to know relevant to our jurisdiction. anything dealing with russia, with the felonious dissemination of classified material, access to witnesses, act access to

documents, ask the questions in a credible, serious way, which means, do our investigations away other serious investigation in the country is done, which is behind closed doors until you have something to report. >> martha: good to see you today. thank you for being here today. >> thank you. >> martha: intelligence community chairman devin nunes descended his decision to go to the white house to view this intelligence. he said it was the only way he could see it. watch this. >> the congress has not been given this information. these documents. that is the problem. it was distributed widely through the executive branch, from november, december, january. there was no way i could do that because they couldn't get it to the house intelligence committee. >> martha: a cia trained intelligence operative and marie horace. great panel for this this evening. good to have you both here. tony, let me start with you. what do you make of that

statement. a lot has been said about this and what he why he interviewed in the white house. go. >> i am a former whistleblower myself. i have testimony add to that myself. i know that the initial disclosures i made, protected disclosures, were not reflected well by the fact that congress had information. i think what you see here is the fact that the executive branch does not share with congress everything at code or showed up. in this case, chairman nunes was offered access to information and may vary, what i would call a skip within a skip, information that is beyond top secret. code words, layers, sometimes only handcarried. i ran an operation, everything was hand carry only. you have no electronic footprints. it takes a physical meeting to look at stuff. i think it is well within the norms of how we do business in the intelligence committee to see the stuff. >> martha: marie, trey gowdy was think the process of how this has come about, to him, the

most important thing is whether or not in the intelligence agencies had turned on the new president and were finding things and unmasking the names of people he was working with and revealing that to other people in the executive branch and elsewhere. isn't that really the most important thing? >> the most important thing actually is whether and how russia interviewed in the election. this is all part of the bigger investigation, the who was unmasked, how they were unmasked and who was leaked to the press, that is part of the bigger investigation the house intelligence committee is doing on the russian interference in the election. trey gowdy is not correct that if this was related to unmasking that it is related to the overall investigation. >> martha: chairman nunes said that this particular part was not related to the russian investigation but we also know that he only saw about a dozen documents and i could be more. >> correct. >> it was related to the unmasking. at the republican's request, all

of the questions about how people were unmasked in these intelligence reports, whether or not they were about russia, had been moved into this broader investigation. >> martha: i think we lose sight of what we are talking about here sometimes. tony, we are discussing whether or not there was an effort -- and we sat in "the new york times" piece. the obama administration was concerned about leaving breadcrumbs and these trails. they left a trail wide open and in the process, may have done some illegal unmasking of different individuals, names who didn't deserve it. >> miss harf is completely ignoring the fact. the bottom line, this has nothing to do with anything and russia. this has to do with communications which were ongoing from the moment the president-elect became the president-elect to his inauguration. i think that is the issue. what was the legal basis for the collection come if that is okay, then, the unmasking? that becomes a question of ethics and legality.

then, most importantly, who disseminated the information to the r&r times especially? this is nothing to do with russia. >> the intelligence community is investigating that as part of the broader investigation. >> martha: absolutely. i want to ask you one more question about jared kushner. he has come forward with information about other members of the trump administration, he is willing to discuss the discussion he had with the russian banker. what would you like to see him ask? >> i'm glad he has come forward. i want to know what americans want to know. what were the extent of the conversations? what was the purpose? how did the russians interact with you? what was the totality of the reason you dealt with russians? speak there are so many questions, republicans or democs answers. chairman nunes, by making the story so politicized over the past week is not the person to lead that investigation. we needed an independent special

prosecutor or a special committee, like trey gowdy ran on benghazi. >> martha: very briefly, is there anything that you have seen so far that there is anything to ward about jared kushner? >> no, he is cooperating completely. he is not acting like someone who has a secret. what you see, a normal process of accountability. i will say this clearly. the congressman did what he did bait based on his obligation to protect the nation. >> martha: good to see you. coming up at 8:00 on "the o'reilly factor" ," devin nunes, clearly the man of the hour, who will we have been talking about for the last 11 minutes will be on the hot seat. he will talk to bill o'reilly, who no doubt will give him some good questions. stick around for that. stick around, the white house trying to move on from health care and on this monday pursuing action, action, action, and the words of strategist steve bannon. can the gang that fumbled health care get back to the mat

on tax reform? who will their friends be on that one, by the way? chris stirewalt, charlie hurt join us. plus, as the rockville case put century city's back in the headlines, jeff sessions made a surprise visit today to the white house briefing room with a warning shot about federal funding that could go away and some of our country's biggest metropolises. the numeral he laid out right

>> martha: after a horrifying high school case made citizens wonder how we can lead to situations like this happen in the first place. the white house has now turned the page on this whole story. attorney general jeff sessions made a surprise visit to the white house podium this afternoon. he announced that federal grants to sanctuary cities are over and that's the money that has already been doled out to these cities will be clawed back. here he is earlier today. >> i strongly urge our nation states, cities, counties, to consider carefully the harm they are doing to their citizens by refusing to enforce our immigration law and to rethink these policies. such policies make the cities

and states less safe. public safety, as well as national security, are at stake. they put them at risk of losing federal dollars. >> martha: trace gallagher has the latest on what this means. life from the west coast newsroom. hi, trace. speak up when the attorney general said that they are risk of losing federal dollars, what he is talking about his law enforcement dollars, meaning thd billions given up by the department of justice each year to talk pay for things like jad police officers. it will be a crippling blow to pay back federal money that has been spent. by definition, sanctuary cities are those communities that won't abide by federal law and work with immigrations and customs enforcement or i.c.e. but the pickens disagreement is over cities that refused to allow i.c.e. agents to the mac arrest illegal immigrants who have committed crimes and are about to be released to local jails and prisons,

something that led to the death of kate steinle in san francisco. speak of countless americans would be alive today and countless loved ones would not be grieving today if these policies sanctuary cities were ended. >> but no sooner had the attorney general left the white house podium, new york attorney general eric schneiderman, a big trump critic, said he will fight any efforts to defend his data sanctuary cities. the mayors of boston, chicago, and los angeles have also vowed not to comply with the doj, with l.a. mayor eric garcetti saying, "the los angeles police department has never participated in programs that deputize local law enforcement to act as immigration agents and on my watch, they never will." many legal experts believe the federal government does not have broad authority to use federal funds as a weapon to coerce cities and towns into certain actions, but today the attorney general appeared to be saying

just watch us. martha. >> martha: thank you, trace. joining us now with mark, sean duffy, he is supported defunding sanctuary cities. and richard fowler. welcome to both of you. good to see both of you. it is interesting, trace touched on this being financial, when he goes back to the cities and towns, they are saying, it is not that we don't necessarily want to uphold the law, it is that we don't want to get involved in the business of immigration, we don't want to incarcerate people, process them. it is a "not my job" argument. what do you think about that? >> don't take federal money if you want help federal law enforcement. it's important because there is collaboration and cooperation between the federal government, the state, the municipalities. here, donald trump are saying that he will help keep us safe. when there is a detainer request that comes up, that is a holder requested say there are some very violent individuals here

unlawfully. we want you to hold them so, whether we will arraign, prosecute, detain them, when these community say no that is outrageous. it doesn't keep them safe it makes it more dangerous. when you have good people who come here unlawfully and are working, trying to raise a family, you sully their name and reputation by lumping them in with the worst criminals in the community. i think this is outrageous that these mayors are taking this position. >> martha: in terms of clawing back money, in terms of rockville, it has raise the consciousness in the country of what the consequences are of allowing people into the country. it makes everybody feel safe. if you are recent immigrants, they have to feel the same way when they look at situations like rockville. >> here's the thing. if you are a violent criminal, you shouldn't be in this country if you are illegal. with that being said, i grew the congressman, for those who came here illegally, who are working, trying to achieve the american dream, we have got to meet them halfway.

donald trump and congressman duffy, they have the majority in the house and the senate and they have the white house, so, instead of using the stopgap measures to treat the symptoms, let's treat the cure. comprehensive immigration reform. >> martha: why can't you do most of the same time? >> we can but there isn't one on the floor in the house. that is the question. >> martha: do you want to respond to that? >> democrats have control of the house, the senate, the white house for two years and did nothing for you >> we tried to pass something. >> if you want comprehensive immigration reform, you don't do that by not securing the southern border. you don't do that by letting murderers stay in the country with mayors who aren't protecting them. last keep america safe, get the bad actors out, secure the borders and have a real conversation about the men and women who come here with our documentation and are productive members of the society. you can never get to that conversation until you secure the border and get the bad actors out of the country and keep the community safe.

>> martha: final thought, richard. >> i don't think securing the border as a prerequisite. if republicans want to do it, they could. this is about the money and the local governments like bill de blasio and by eric garcetti saying, our job is to keep the city safe, and to enforce immigration laws, don't expect us to do it. what needs to happen, congress needs to be bold, instead of working on tax reform, this is more immediate. we have 11 million people living in the shadows. they have all chambers. let's get it done. >> martha: there is no reason you can't do both at the same time. >> donald trump is already going to build a wall. he is committed to building the wall, so, if he will do that, let's pass immigration reform. >> martha: thank you, you guys. good to see you both. still i had come at the white house setting at sites high with another ambitious legislative goal. this time, they are hoping it will be the trick on tax reform. chris stirewalt, charles hurt

join us to break down the timeline released by the white house. plus, senior advisor jared kushner has a new role to bring some business enterprise into overhauling the federal government. drain the swamp move, got governor mike huckabee is here with his thoughts on what if technology gave us the power to turn this enemy into an ally? microsoft and its partners are using smart traps to capture mosquitoes and sequence their dna to fight disease. there are over 100 million pieces of dna in every sample. with the microsoft cloud, we can analyze the data faster than ever before. if we can detect new viruses before they spread, we may someday prevent outbreaks before they begin.

♪ >> martha: health care is not in the rearview mirror for now, as g.o.p. leadership looks to move forward with their legislative agenda. in the past few hours, speaker brian, seen making his way to the white house, senior staff at reince priebus, and others, about the next thing on the list. let's move forward your tax reform. watch. >> we are moving on to tax reform, the budget coming up, i think it is more or less a warning shot that we are willing to talk to anyone. we always have been. i think more so now than ever. >> we will move forward with the boldest tax reform in a generation. we will never stop working. we have been running this all throughout health care, as well. >> martha: here we now. chris stirewalt, charles hurt, and a senior dnc advisor who

runs the trump war room. good have all of you here tonight. victory has 100 fathers, chris, and trauma care in your opinion is an orphan. >> for sure. it really was orphaned even before they got to the end. you could feel both the house leadership and the president starting to step back from it and that was the encouragement that the naysayers and the center and the right in the house republican caucus said, if you are not willing to die on this hill, i'm not voting for it, either. that is how it fell apart. >> martha: it's a wounded puppy to be sure. there are some who are trying to revive it. i talked to rand paul, what you will see in a moment. in terms of the idea, charles hurt, of working with democrats, and want fantasyland while they all come together and decide that tax reform will happen when one side is going to want huge spending cuts and the other side won't let them cut anything?

>> one of the things that donald trump, he likes to talk about how he knows that his drug deals and understands how to work the art of the deal. >> martha: so far, so good. [laughter] >> he has never worked with congress before. this is what happens when the greatest dealmaker on earth deals with congress. it is a real problem. i also think that the white house has to be careful about how much they blame the freedom caucus for the repeal and replace land because standing on the sidelines, all those democrats were standing there for partisan reasons, refusing to take part in fixing the mess that they created. i think donald trump is hoping that in the long run, when obamacare gets worse and more people are upset and fed up with that, they will come back to the table and figure out a way to make a deal. for someone like me, that is a problem because i am sure that whatever deal he will strike at

the democrats will be worse than the one they came up with. >> martha: that is the problem for conservatives. he wants to win. we read the "art of the deal," we know how it ends. he learns from the mistakes and tries to grow from them, try to figure out what to do better next time. he is looking in the room and saying, i used to be a democrat a long time ago, maybe i can make friends with these folks and we can have a win together. is there a new reality that happens? >> democrats have said that if republicans would like to work with us to improve this legislation, to expand access, to continue to bring down premiums, to provide additional -- >> martha: how about if it cuts taxes enormously? >> democrats have also said they are willing to work when the values align. massive tax cuts for the wealthy, the goldman sachs executives that populate the cart on my cabinet, that is not in the cards. to be perfectly honest, i don't

think of the democrats of the problems that donald trump faces with tax reform. would we saw the health care reform, it is the republicans, and which he had zero political capital. republicans in districts that donald trump went back by massive margins that the so they will take a hike. i don't think we should be looking at democrats, he should be looking at his own house. >> martha: ultimately, he's got to put together a majority of 216, 218. he has to find them and make it work. where are they? the freedom caucus? >> i think they have been trying to spin out of whole cloth. they have been doing it wrong. come up with a plan that you believe in. come up with a plan, an idea you care about that matters to you, aligns with your view of the world. we don't know the details of what is and trump's tax plan. if it is what kevin brady talked about, the biggest overhaul of the tax code since 1986, when they did it last, that's a huge

deal. an enormous undertaking. it will take months and months, lots owned lots of the salesmanship and tenacity, that will depend on donald trump believing in this plan. were they did with the health care, they threw together this thing with bailing wire and chewing gum and said, i think this works and it's an improvement. i'm sure that to the minds of the people who drafted it, it was an improvement. the president didn't believe in it. or he evidently didn't because he didn't sell it. he has got to own it and sell it on taxes. >> martha: i would say they tried in the president got very involved in this. try to pull it over the finish line. we'll see if they can get it next time. thank you, good to see you. always good to see you all. coming up, president trump's son-in-law jared kushner taking the helm of a new white house team that is going to rethink how white house does some of its business. very interesting plan. we'll talk about that coming out. governor my huckabee will join

us with his thoughts on macrame come back. plus, a popular messaging app that is known for its encryption turns out to be a wow at the center of the london terror investigation. now, there is a debate over privacy and security that has a couple of companies saying, no way.

>> martha: developing tonight, the present tapping his senior advisor and son-in-law jared kushner to lead a new i face in the white house, the office of american innovation come with the aim of challenging the conventional bureaucracy in d.c. they are tasked with reshaping the old washington order. they just love that in washington when people want to reshape the order. we will be joined by mike huckabee, governor, first, let's go to chief national correspondent, ed henry, for details on how this will work, some of the very big names part

of the team. >> good to see you. major policy goals of this new office, slowing down the bureaucracy in order to get the government more focused on posting the economy, and shackling businesses from regulation. there also seems to be a clear political goal. gary: and other power players inside the white house trying to pivot away from that stunning loss on health care to actually focusing on creating jobs. the white house statement declaring tonight, "this office will bring together but the best ideas from government, the private sector, and other thought leaders to ensure that america is ready to solve today's most intractable problems." it will focus on and preventing policies and scaling proven private sector models to spur job creation and navigation. eyebrows raised when the president son-in-law jared kushner, who already has a full plate camels also put in charge of this new office, nothing new to see presidential into men's accumulate more and more power. remember, valerie jarrett to the last administration.

he bring some business credentials with a 36-year-old also has very little government experience and his father-in-law had already asked them to take on that monumental task of crafting mideast peace. he is a lot on his plate. >> martha: ed, thank you. here are they reaction, governor mike huckabee. good to see you. welcome. he's got a lot on his plate, jared kushner. >> a lot and this is going to be a plateful like thanksgiving feast. two begged things. number one, everybody says, let's operate government like a business but government is in a business and it doesn't quite operate like one. you can make it more businesslike but you can't fire their principal players. you can fire the legislators, you can fire the lobbyist that worked against you. you can fire bureaucrats who have civil service protection. you can fire the judiciary. quite frankly, it is a wall of opposition everywhere you turn.

the second thing he finds, everybody has a patron saint. every agency, every program, has people who are the protectors of those programs. it is a very important thing to do and i am thrilled with the president has stepped forth to do it. >> martha: a couple things on my list, the v.a., it does seem could deal with a bit of privatization, some things along those lines might be helpful. also, air traffic control is something that they want to reorganize, as well. what about the increasing power of jared kushner in the white house? >> it's a good thing because the president trusts him. the single most important thing the chief executive has to have, people around him that he trusts. i think jared kushner is a very smart business guy. he understands how business works. what he has to do is surround himself with a smart government people who know how government works and then, both of those

people need to surround themselves with a whole bunch of lawyers because everywhere they will turn, they will find legal obstacles to what they want to do the whole room roomful of lawyers fighting them every single step of the way. plus, here is a whole difference in dealing with business and government changes. in business, you don't have to tell anyone, you fire people, how your people, but when you are dealing with government entities, it is all about their 7 for people to see. you better know what you are doing because it will be criticized like they cannot believe. >> martha: people are intrigued by the power circle in the white house and it's interesting that steve bannon, who has a lot of roles in the white house, is not part of this group, especially since part of the ml for this group sounds like deconstructing the administrative state, which is something that is very near and dear to his heart. why wouldn't he be involved in this?

>> we don't know that he won't be involved. steve bannon is also busy doing 100 different things right now. i don't think there is anything to be read into that. steve bannon is a very interested advisor to the president. i think he is brilliant, one of the smartest people that donald trump put in the west wing. as is jared kushner. he is a lot of people. there are a lot of obstacles and challenges in front of him. it's not that every person in the white house can be a part of every project. i wouldn't read anything whatsoever into what steve bannon not being on this particular project -- and, he might be in the background somewhere with some ideas of his own. >> martha: governor mike huckabee on day 67. we are only 67 days and prayed sometimes it feels more than that. good to see you, as always. still to come tonight, a facebook owned messaging app is finding itself at the center of the london terror investigation. as of now, the messages are being hidden from the

authorities. should businesses be compelled to share what is on those apps with the authorities? debate straight ahead. plus, after the white house efforts to undo obamacare derailed, president trump says he may turn to democrats to pass future legislation. up next, we have senator rand paul. whether he regrets his decision to stand in president trump's way on this. ♪ >> i am disappointed because we

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>> i think the president is disappointed in a number of people that he thought were loyal to him that weren't. he wants to make sure that people don't get left behind, wants to make sure there is competition in the marketplace so that rates are lower and that people can choose their doctor. if those three things are incompatible with some members of the republican house, then, it is going to be incompatible. we need to work with moderate democrats to make sure that that happens. >> martha: president trump's chief of staff reince priebus addressing the idea of loyalty and extending an olive branch.

some might say the white house is directly calling out those who stood in public opposition to that legislation, including my next guest, joining me now, rand paul. senator, good evening. good to have you here. what do you make of that? there is an indication that the white house has thrown up their hands and said, no more dealing with the freedom caucus. we will do some outreach to democrats. >> i think loyalty and fidelity are very important. but i think our loyalty should be to the oath to uphold the constitution as conservatives, to believe in fiscal conservatism, federalism, that most power should remain with the states and the people. i think you will find the freedom caucus to be among the most honorable and principled men and women and congress. i don't think there's a question of loyalty when we are talking about principle. i think there's a way out of this, though. the house leadership bit off more than they can chew. one of the huge bill to pass that had a lot of things that were objectionable to conservatives. what if we start with a modest

bill, a bell that has very little and it, except for what everyone agrees, every republican agrees, then, build from there? i think that approach would work better. >> martha: what do you say to those who say you got a lot of what she wanted in bill? maximum of income to receive tax credits, block grants, something you talk a lot about free of the list goes on, in terms of requirements for able-bodied adults to get medicaid if they can work, they have to work. a trillion dollars in obamacare. a lot of folks say, they match those folks in my freedom caucus pretty much halfway. >> i think what we started with, we stopped a lot of stuff in a bill that was objectionable. obamacare light was objectionable part it became less bad over time. it was headed in the right direction. i think compromise is possible. but we are to start with what we agree on, virtually all of us agree on repealing the taxes, the individual mandate. let's put a list of things before all of us and say, what

are the things that we generally all agree to it, instead of putting before us things we didn't like, the cadillac tax, subsidies, medicaid expansion. >> martha: i think now they look at it and say, all of those very pure ideologies are admirable. you talk about the honor of the republican freedom caucus, as you see it. if you can't get it across the finish line, what good is it really? >> i think we can. i am optimistic. i don't think it's over. i just came from meeting with conservatives and they said they are still working and talking to everyone about this issue. still reaching out to the white house on this issue. we'll continue to meet with them. i think there is a solution. the way to look at this, do we have to however everything or can we start out of the three agree on? rather than forcing everyone into a box, saying that everyone has to accept this. i think there is a lot of common

ground, having a less expensive bill, may be a more modest repeal bill that includes the things we all think should be repealed. >> martha: i understand you are hopeful and there are signs that people hope that this isn't dead. then, you have people that governor kay sik on on the hill today with representative dent, nancy pelosi speaking out, saying, we wouldn't be willing to listen. if that is the coalition that forms, you may wish that your folks had gone along with this deal. >> we'll be surprised if we see democrats cooperating on repeal of obamacare. this is a republican chance to repeal obamacare. it is a disaster. i think ultimately we will find a consensus. it takes time. 17 days is not very long. >> martha: how much time do you need? >> [laughs] nobody can predict when we come to an agreement. i think the forces are still moving towards an agreement. as we speak, there are people on capitol hill still talking about an agreement and we haven't

given up on this. i promise you, the house freedom caucus come with us to serve at times, we want repeal. but we haven't run on replacing obamacare with another federal program. >> martha: thank you very much much. coming up next, a popular messaging app could be used to find out if the london terrace suspect was plotting or communicating with someone else. he texted for mike moments before the scene that you see. now, the companies don't want to help out the investigators. former green beret ben collins on the debate between privacy and

♪ >> martha: we are learning chilling new details about the british-born man who turned to terror, killing four innocent people in london last week. investigators focusing on an encrypted message that he sent just moments before he drove that car over the bridge. he did it on an app called

whatsapp. it is owned by facebook and now, the company is refusing to give investigators access. here now, ben collins, a u.s. army former green beret who served three tours of duty in afghanistan. ben, welcome. >> thanks, martha. >> martha: the encryption, it's not as easy as it sounds. >> not at all. the way that these were, it is called end to end encryption. if i was to send you a message on whatsapp, i send it, it gets scrambled as it leaves my phone, it goes through the servers, when it gets to your phone, it gets unscrambled. if i have a key to unscramble it, you do, too. there is essentially a blind messenger in between, b7. they can't read it. for things like this, the specific case, they are not able to read it, and you are stuck with cracking, if you can have the device, this individual's phone, the london terrace, they can get to that message through that phone. they will have to get into the

phone and read that message. it is not like they will find it -- it depends on the technology company, but on the server. >> martha: there was an israeli company that cracked the code for san bernardino. a different technology? >> they were attacking the device not the encryption tool. things like i message that you use on the iphone, those are not encrypted. >> martha: i thought it was fascinating, you are more concerned with further down the digital pipeline and how this person becomes a terror. tell us. >> at the point of end to end encryption one-to-one messages, they have gone through the recruitment process, someone is directing them. peel it back. start with websites like facebook and youtube, where somebody sees may be a video of dead civilians and may play their music, these are well put together things. then come with person goes and

maybe goes into a chat room on a public site, or through comments and chat, and as they start, they radicalize themselves, that is when they can start, when someone reaches out from the terror network like isis, and they say, let me invite you to a one-on-one conversation on whatsapp. that is how it moves. >> martha: they also learn how to stab someone wearing a vest, which is how they would happen to the officer in this case. ben, thank you. good to have you. finally, tonight, as the white house pledges to turn to tax reform, here is the quote of the night from cowboy writer will rogers. the only difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't get worse every time congress meets. let's hope they can turn that reputation around, folks. thanks for watching. i am martha maccallum. we will see you tomorrow at 7:00. up next, bill o'reilly, talking to chairman nunes. we will talk to you tomorrow.

♪ ♪ ♪ >> tom: welcome to "red eye," hello everyone, i am tom shillue. let's check in with tvs andy levy at this before. >> andy: coming up in the big show, who's to blame for the g.o.p. failure to pass the health care bill? will have all the latest on those short, stubby finger pointing. huber car claims the accident wasn't it's a fault, and finally reality show was canceled after four episodes, but nobody bothered to tell the