thanks for watching rich lowry, i am. bill o'reilly. please remember the spin stops here, we are definitely looking out for you. >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight," attorney general jeff sessions just said on o'reilly's show that it's time to clamp down on sanctuary cities. with that in mind, we speak to a lawmaker who says there's nothing wrong with elected officials undermining immigration law. but first -- >> charles murray no more. antiwar. >> tucker: to stop another charles murray event, he spoke at villanova but he had to be escorted out for his own safety after several people disrupted the event and called him a supremacist.

murray returned after several people were ejected by the. at a nearby drexel university,er two days ago he urged the disruption of murray's speech. he joins us tonight from mexico city. thank you for coming on. i wonder if you see something inconsistent with someone who teaches at a university dedicated to the idea of the open exchange of ideas, calling for ideas he disagree with to be shut down. >> we should be clear that universitiesit are actually spas for rational ideas, for arguments based in fact andnd evidence. charles murray has never based his arguments and evidence or fact. he has never passed any kind of rigorous academic examination of those ideas. he does not publish with academic presses. he's had his research paid for by right wing think tanks. they paid for him to write books like "the bell curve." they paid for those books to be published and then they actually paid for journalist to read and

take seminars on those books to spread the gospel, as it will work. this is the worst pseudo-intellectual pay for play. that doesn't guarantee you a platform on university campus. >> tucker: because he has not been published in academic journals and has not passed to the gauntlet of other professors assessing his work, though of course he has because he has been an academic. but by that standard, plato, aristotle, socrates, none of them, i recall, publishing and academic journals. is there writing also out of bounds on drexel's campus? >> i think the question is really also about the content of these writings. he's defined as a white nationalist by the southern poverty law center, somebody who burned crosses in his youth and went on to support -- >> tucker: let me stop you there. he burned crosses in his youth? i know charles murray and quite a bit about him.

i read his books, i'm sure unlike you. i'm not familiar with that.. can you substantiate that claim? >> it does not take much research to realize that he claimed it was not racist. which might be plausible were it not for the fact that he went on to basically make a eugenic argument for racial inferiority. >> tucker: he burned crosses? i don't want to get hung up but since we are having a debate about what is accurate and what is not, what are you talkingut about? charles murray was a member of the klan? you can't throw these things out here. substantiate that, please. >> tucker, i am pretty sure you know what google is. you know how to do research and if you did that you would realize it something he admitted to although he claims it had no racial undertones. unfortunately as i said, he wen on to write that blacks and latinos are racially inferior and genetically debased. he's gone more recently actually, it might be interesting for your audience, that he argued that poor whites are becoming genetically inferior as well.

the most flimsy pseudoscience debunked in every way possible and yet people continue to take it seriously. because it makes them feel better. >> tucker: you are saying that someone who is making racial inflammatory claims that have not been vetted by academics shouldn't be allowed to speak on the college campus and yet people have said that of you, you called on twitter -- white genocide. obviously a racially inflammatory thing to say. people shut you down and you call those people in a mob. defendant academic freedom when it applied to you. how is he more racially inflammatory than you, calling for white genocide? >> i am losing my faith in your ability to use google. if you used google, the first thing you will realize is of course that white genocide is not a real thing, it's a racial fantasy of the kind that charles murray and his ability to put forward. i am not saying no one -- i'm not saying it should not be allowed on campus, i'm saying

that not earned any kind of platform and the free-speech rights by that racist speech comes into play at -- >> tucker: i'm doing my best to -- i am trying to take you seriously. no one takes it seriously. you are accusing this guy of racial demagoguery and you called for white genocide. you also applauded the haitian revolution for killing whites. those are your views. i'm not saying you should not be allowed to express them. i am merely pointing out the irony. you are trafficking in race hatred and then yet saying that charles murray should not be allowed to speak because he traffics and race hatred. are you not self-aware enough to catch that? >> i believe in a very fundamental way that all people are equal. it's very interesting -- the difference is that charles murray does not and he's dedicated his life to prove that they are inferior.ve inferior people should not have access to education, should not have access to social security. >> tucker: i doubt you have read a charles murray book. i will give you the benefit of the doubt. answer my question. you called for white genocide.

i am not making it up. it actually got a lot of attention. are you going to defend not as a principled academic stand? what does that mean exactly? >> maybe i gave you too much credit, maybe i thought you were too smart and thought you wouldy actually do your research and figure out what is clearly satire. what talks about an imaginary concept and an imaginary concept of white genocide, which is upheld by the likes of steve bannon in all these alt-right figureheads actually think white people in the united states are under existential threat. i do not believe that. >> tucker: i don't even understand the answer but i will pass on things that just a couple days ago, you said some guy gave up his first class seat for uniformed soldier. people are thinking him.rs i am trying not to vomit or yell about mosul. was that satire too? what does that mean? will you blame stephen bannon for that as well? >> i think it's really irresponsible to blindly support for example wars that send off young people into combat, kill

many others as we have just seen and mose will come at 200 people incinerated by u.s. bonds and to not do that in a way that expands anyone's freedom, that makes anyone less secure. the iraq war -- >> tucker: you are blaming the soldier, not the policy. b >> absolutely not. >> tucker: you say giving up a seat for a soldier in uniform made you want to vomit. you are not saying giving up a seat for the guy who made the war policy but for the soldier, the guy risking his life. why did that make you feel like throwing up? >> i think u.s. troops need real support. not symbolic gestures. what they need is not a first-class seat, they need t health care support, psychological support. women in the military don't need to be subjected to an epidemic of sexual assault, take away from their families that do nothing and no good for everyone. >> tucker: that's fine but why is it bad for them to give him a first-class seat?

i'm missing that. so much trying to be nice to this guy was going through all the hardships you just described. that makes you mad. why? >> i'm all for generous gestures devoted towards those who most deserved them in our society. at the deepest respect for anyone, particularly for economic reasons make difficult decisions like joining the military, doing other dangerous work that has to take place in our society. whether being an economic migrant and i think these people all deserve better. they deserve to not have to join the military if they would rather just -- >> tucker: but he did. he doesn't have a government-subsidized job.ceiety why did it make you mad? >> this is how we support the troops. not by sending them off to wars. >> tucker: you began this conversation with reference to your own scholarship and the academic journals you and your fellow professors published in and because i do want to take you seriously, i spent some timi reading some of them today. i want you to explain to me what this means. i was an editor for a long time. an editor.

you wrote a piece called dual power in the venezuelan revolution. by viewing the process through the leninist concept of dual power, the construction of an alternative power, capable of challenging the existing state structure, the communal councilt in venezuela is clearly a positive step toward the development of a deeper and c fuller democracy which is greata in and of itself. s that has too many adjectives. passive construction, imprecise language. high school writing. it is crap.. i'm wondering -- is your scholarship serious? >> i appreciate you digging into the vault. >> tucker: [laughs] you are not a impressive scholar.pp you are a performative artist. v > this is really interesting. you can't even use google. i don't mean to flout academic credentials in front of you. >> tucker: you are not capable of writing a clear sentence. i went through a lot ofof

different essays you wrote and i have an iq above room temperature. i can't understand any of them because your writing is childlike. it is childlike. >> it is like your show is -- you are incapable of grasping very simple and direct things. on the development of what a communal council, i know what it means to develop institutions in venezuela. i know to mark. i'm glad to talk about them but if your entire shtick is to come on here and say you cannot understand basic english and basic sentences -- h >> tucker: oh, no. it is not basic english. i have spent a lot of time writing and editing basic english and it's designed to make the idea clearer, not to cloak them from people. two things are going on, either you don't know what you are saying because you don't understand it yourself or you are trying to hide it from the person from whom you are writing. neither one is impressive. i guess my point is the only writing i have read by you like i can understand clearly are

your tweets. they seem to be designed to shock people, to get attention. it seems again, a species of performance art and not scholarship. has this occurred to you? >> performance art is scholarship. what's be real about that. you seem to be able to understand the very short pieces that i write and when you sit down to try to read the longer things, you suddenly want to perform your own inability to actually read and digest. plenty of people have read my work and appreciate it and yet you are defending someone like charlese murray, who very few people defend. >> tucker: i'm not defending charles murray. i am defending his right to say what he thinks. i think that underpins all scholarship. the right of people to say what they believe. we call it free-speech. it is enshrined in the bill of rights. in the first amendment. i am surprised you are not for that but i guess i shouldn't be because you defended hugo chavez.

let me ask you one final question. >> in no point in the first amendment does it say no one should use their free speech to protest. i think you know that perfectly well. free speech should not be allowed, or disrupted, it should not be unruly. these belong in venerated tradition in the united states. >> tucker: i'm not against protest as you know. you are not protesting, professor. you are trying to prevent a man -- that's silly. last question. the tweet that you are unwilling to defend about feeling such as a see a man in uniform getting a first-class seat, you protected that.h you prevented the public from seeing that. if you're proud of what youub think and you can defend what you think, why did you do that?r >> i believe absolutely in the right of people to use these platforms and the right of charles murray to take tot twitter and to say and spew his violent racism but that does not mean he should be invited onto a university. >> tucker: i don't have a lot of time. i just want you to answer my question.

>> people who are called inferior have every right to take to the streets. >> tucker: you are not answering my question. you are going on. are you going to answer my question? >> charles murray the racist. >> tucker: why are you protecting your twitter feed if you can defend your position? why are you hiding it from the public?go >> people who like to go onpr about -- saying it's time to violently threaten people who use that -- that free speech. i would not -- >> tucker: says the guy who called for white genocide. professor. i'veid got to go. thanks for joining us tonight. have fun in mexico city. for more on the disrupted speech by charles murray, we go to rob schmitt, who is at the school now. >> it was an interesting day,sc

charles murray came to talk about a government he says has grown too big to give kind of a grim picture on the future of america. it was tough for him to do that today. a book from his past, the bell curve, the reason protesters showed up today calling him a racist, interrupting a lecture he was giving to a small groupll here. where one protester was spitting in the face of a student that came to watch the lecture. and also another one who argued while arguing for his own right to free speech told mr. murray that he would not be able to speak. here's another one. we will show you now. >> antiwar, charles murray no more. antiwar, antiwar. >> murray, libertarian political scientist created quite a stir back in the '90s when he published "the bell curve," it tied the iq of americans to howw

successful they will be and also published iq averages of americans according to ethnicity and just to go through those that were published, in first t place certain sects of jews, east asian americans, white americans such as charles murray himself and in fourth place, african-americans.ns of course, this drew a lot of controversy at the time and has for years now. while the book of scientific and murray said that the findings oa it are largely supported by the american psychological association. he has been branded as a racist by number of people on the lefto and he has been protested quitee a bit in a very polarized time right now, he has been protested just in the last few weeks in vermont at middlebury college where the protest turned violent and a professor that was with mr. murray ended up in the hospital with a concussion. someone who attended today's lecture, the hatred for

mr. murray, we asked what they thought of the lecture and what they thought about such violence and hatred towards this man. >> i understand why people are protesting and i understand the heights of sensitivities but at the same time, i understand him trying to further the knowledge of his science. >> 95% left liberal think free speech is the enemy of normalcy at this point. it has to be tamped down. >> a few of the protesters had to be escorted out. he was able to finish the speech. he clarified the findings of his from his book the bell curve to a young african-american student who went up to protest him. i'm not sure that he won her over but he certainly did make an impression on her and really kind of softened the moon in the room. we will send it back tori you. >> tucker: thank you, rob. i'm sure he was not there to talk about the bell curve but no one paid attention to that. russia's role in the 2016 t

election, we were going to invite a senator on tonight but instead we actually invited someone who speaks russian. a lawmaker in massachusetts rallying to the defense of a colleague who tried to help illegal immigrants hide from federal authorities. why is it okay for some laws to be ignored and which ones?s? a helpful guide for you at home, stay tuned. t or you at home, or you at home, stliberty mutual stood with us when a fire destroyed the living room. we were able to replace everything in it. liberty did what? liberty mutual paid to replace all of our property that was damaged. and we didn't have to touch our savings. yeah, our insurance won't do that. well, there goes my boat. you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance

>> tucker: the senate held a public hearing today about alleged russian hacking in theke 2016 election, during the hearing marco rubio said he was targeted by russian hackers as

recently as just yesterday. >> in july 2016, shortly after i announced i would seek re-election for united states senate, who had access to theit internal information about my presidential campaign were targeted by ip addresses. with an unknown location in russia. that effort was unsuccessful. at 10:45 a.m. yesterday, a second attempt was made again against former members of my presidential campaign team who had access to our internal information. again, targeted from an ip address from an unknown location in russia. that effort was also unsuccessful. >> tucker: carter page was often identified as a trump advisor, denied collaborating with the russians in any way during an interview with our own catherine herridge. here's part of it. >> it's literally completely false.

in every way shape and form. >> do you know christopher steele? >> i have never met him. >> tucker: that is not the only russian news today. former national security advisor michael flynn appears to have gone completely off the deep end and has claimed he will testify but asked for immunity in prossecusion. what to make of all this? a professor emeritus at princeton and nyu, unlike most people talking about this, he actually speaks fluent russian. he joins us tonight. thank you for coming on. so let me just say that there are a lot of strands to the story, a lot of things i did not understand. it seems pretty clearor that general flynn behaved in waysys that we are very hard to defend. at the core of the story was the allegation that the russian government hacked our election.s the phrase people are using. broke into email accounts at the

dnc and in the campaign office, used those to help trump win. everyone assumes this is true. we are all operating on the assumption that it is true. do we know it's true? >> no, repeatedly it was said by senator warner, that of russia had hijacked our democracy. what he means is the russians, putin's direction had gone into democratic national committee's emails which were embarrassing to mrs. clinton. given them to wikileaks, to damage mrs. clinton and put trump in the white house. this is a very dramatic narrative.e. they are saying this was an act of war. they are saying this is an act of war. whether or not it is true is existential. are we at war?? i got interested in this not because it's my expertise but

one of the things i've studied for four years was russian leadership. i got interested in putin. i am writing a long piece on putin now. i looked into it to see if he could make sense that putin could have or did do such a thing. i can find not one piece of factual evidence.ould the only evidence ever presented was a study hired by the clintons, the dnc, to do an examination of their computers. they concluded the russians did it, their report has fallen apart. the question is, why the fbi t decided to use that private cyber -- kind of private detective, let's say -- the new york police department had decided to hire a private detective, why the fbi did not do their own investigation? that's all we have. >> tucker: and yet night after night, i get people, on both sides saying 17 u.s.

intelligence agencies -- that would include coast guard intelligence.s they have concluded that the russian government was behind this. have they not concluded that?d >> they say that but it is bogus. when clapper, the director of national intelligence, signed that report in january, technically he represents all n 17. i will bet you a dime to a nickel you cannot get a guest on unprepared who could name ten of them. this figure, 17, is bogus. but the point here is critical. the one agency that could conceivably have done a forensic examination on the democratic computers is a national security agency. we learned that from snowden, they are in your computer,mp mind, iphones. everyone else signed that report said they were highly competent. the nsa said it was only moderately competent.

you don't go to war with russia, you don't stage this theater that is going on in washington, that which could destroy a presidency but there is one other thing and let me leave you with this -- when they admit they have no evidence, they fall back on something else, which i think it's very important. they say putin directed russian propaganda at us and helped elect trump. i don't know about you, tucker, but i find that insulting because the premise they are putting out in washington is that the american people are zombies. or lambs, i'm mixing my metaphors. a judas goat. the premise of democracy that we are democratic citizens. we have a b.s. detector in us and we know how to use it. they are telling us out of washington -- what rubio is

telling us.sa every politician who loses election here in america and europe is going to say they were hacked by putin. that is what mrs. clinton is saying. >> tucker: they've never demonstrated by the way why putin would want trump to win. because trump is for fracking? professor, thank you for that. i don't know the truth but i think it is worth asking these questions. i appreciate you doing that. thank you for joining us. up next, a massachusetts lawmaker is probably defending her decision to try to sabotage i.c.e. by warning illegal aliens of impending immigration raids. she would not return our calls so we will talk to another massachusetts lawmaker who says she did exactly the right thing. that's next.ma

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>> >> it clearly makes their own cities less safe. >> tucker: that was attorney general jeff sessions on "the o'reilly factor" talking about the administration's crackdown on sanctuary cities. meanwhile in the commonwealth od massachusetts, michelle dubois has no regrets on trying to sabotage the law. she posted rumors that i.c.e. was going to conduct raids in brockton, massachusetts. jamie eldridge is a massachusetts state senator and supports representative dubois' and trying to make massachusetts sanctuary state for immigrants. thank you for coming on. you would like to see the state of massachusetts vote to makee the commonwealth a sanctuary city for people here illegally. that seems to be legitimate.mo

if you are able to do that, how would you feel if a sheriff in massachusetts told people to ignore the law that you passed. do you think people should be punished for that? >> when we are talking about representative dubois, she was looking out for the best interest of her entire community. we know the i.c.e. raids have been incredibly destabilized communities. it caused immigrants, legal or undocumented, to have less trust in calling the police about a crime. she was really looking out for the best interest of all of her constituents including the immigrants. that's why we filed the safe communities act to limit police interaction with i.c.e. rates. >> tucker: i've heard all that a lot. there's no social science to>> suggest any of this makes community safer but whatever. >> there is. there are studies that say that. there is. >> tucker: safer but not because they are sanctuary cities. there's no proof of that. isn't it a little weird for lawmakers to be encouraging

people to ignore the law? >> we all have different approaches as legislators. in the district i represent, when we have heard rumors about i.c.e. raids, they can reach out and check with the agents to see what's happening because the disturbing xenophobic policies of i.c.e. deportations making everyone a priority if you are undocumented, we need some limits at the state level with our taxpayer dollars, state and local police not only because of it would make communities moreou safe but it's also something that will limit the fear that many immigrant communities are feeling right now. >> tucker: can we just be real? you know how this works. trump did not write these laws and passed these laws. he's not a legislator or lawmaker. he is enforcing laws that are ow the books, passed with a lot of democrats voted for them. what he is saying is -- >> there was a very disturbing executive order. prioritizing everyone for deportation. a >> tucker: the basic

immigration law is clear to everyone who lives here. there is a process by which you get to come here, you get a green card, you get a visa of some kind. if you don't have that, you are not allowed to be here. it was passed by congress, that's the law, it has been that way for 240 years. nothing to do with trump.d do lawmakers get to decide which legitimately passed laws they are going to try to subvert or not? can you see the problem here? >> i disagree because we are talking about state resources, local police/enforcement, we get to make decisions about what level of cooperation we have with federal policies and federal action like i.c.e. agents. >> tucker: no you don't. it's not about -- here you haven't stated lawmaker encouraging people to violate the law and doing so explicitly on social media. i'm not attacking you, how wouln

you feel if the governor of massachusetts decided that we don't have to pay federal income taxes because they are bad and cost massachusetts a lot of money. would you be in favor of that? how would you feel about federal gun laws? like not enforcing federal gun laws, is that legitimate too? >> what i'm talking about is we have a federal immigration policy which is broken. we need immigration reform by a republicans in congress, at the state level, what is the best use of resources? we have had police chief after police chief talk about the fact that they would rather direct the resources toward violent criminals, whether those who are undocumented or -- >> tucker: you are not engaging my question at all. let me ask you the firstun question. if you were to pass laws in the state of massachusetts to make

it a sanctuary state and there was a sheriff somewhere who felt like subverting those laws -- doing what you are doing to thes feds but to the state of massachusetts -- would you support his right to do that? >> i would not support that because under our bill, we would prohibit sheriffs with collaborating with i.c.e. agents. that's part of the bill. >> tucker: you are prohibiting people ignoring the law but you won't make the same people exercising their freedom of conscience? >> law officials the other day have to follow state laws and when we are saying is how is the best use of state resources? is it the best use of taxpayer resources to target hard-working families in their communities by giving back and providing a benefit to the commonwealth of massachusetts? >> tucker: i know your state law. you are from acton down in worcester.

there was a teacher strangled in an apartment who we now know is in an illegal alien. you talk about protecting these families -- how much time have you spent protecting people like that woman and her family? now that she is dead? h >> first of all, worcester's not too far away from my district, i feel horrible for the family. it's important to remember in reading theam fact about how thy found mr. melendez is that it was local police, it was the district attorney with the dna evidence. i.c.e. was not involved withth catching this person. it was a case of old police work were able to capture this person. >> tucker: he should not have been here in the first place. he was an illegal alien. there is no dispute on that. if he hadn't been here, he would not have murdered this woman. encouraging him to stay here, i'm not accusing you of complicity in the murder, but

i'm just saying you can kind of see than connection here is a human being. what would you say to her parents? sorry? >> where disagree with you is that if we just have a broad brush against all undocumented immigrants, you are not creating the trust that allows immigrant communities or anyone in the community from feeling comfortable to call the police if they see a crime in their neighborhood. >> tucker: last question. who should be deported? you have 11 million odd, maybe more, illegal aliens in america. do all of them have the moral right to stay here?n who should be deported now? >> we have had past administrations like the reagan administration that did immigration reform. that legalized undocumented immigrants. undocumented immigrants who have a violent criminal history, that have committed a violent act, they should be deported. that's common sense and i think people agree with that. but a broad brush, the prioritizes all undocumented immigrants, i think that's outrageous. it's xenophobic and it is deeply

disturbing. >> tucker: all right. senator, thank you for coming on tonight. i appreciate it. up next, parents are rallying in montgomery county maryland after a horrifying rapey allegedly occurred at rockville high school. more than a quarter millionoc people have signed a petition demanding that melania trump moves to d.c. immediately, for reasons that are not exactlyly clear. is anyone or anything safe from politics these days? and the bitterness that seems to follow it everywhere. we have a panel to discuss that up ahead. we have a panel (male announcer) this weekend at bass pro shops earn double rewards points on select gear from the best brands. like savings of 20% on these storm searchbaits. these worldwide sportsman quick-dry shorts for under $20.

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at tonight's rally, griff jenkins -- how are you doing? >> we are outside that board of education meeting going late tonight, right where i am standing there were dozens of protesters rallying for accountability in the school system. here's what some of them had to say. >> we are worried about the lack of accountability of our school officials and our elected officials. parents don't know they can send know that they will be safe. we have grown men with a little to no education that are walkini the hallways with our young children. students and parents are very concerned for her safety. >> earlier today, there was som. news in that rape case. the judge, the 17-year-old rape suspect denying bail, with defenders claiming it was consensual. the big revelation tonight is a video of a brutal attack that

occurred nine days before the alleged rape. it is caught on camera.t it is brutal. look at this. it is just vicious.s. >> physically i am getting better but mentally, i'm not getting better because of the social media harassment, it has been worse than the actual attack. >> bullying. >> ya. >> what has happened? >> threats, the video being out there. the memes. everything. the comments. >> mean-spirited? >> yeah. >> you say that that hurts worse than the actual physical, brutal assault that you underwent? >> yeah.h. >> as you and i talked a little bit off camera, just kind of a message here, those kids and adults need to realize just how damaging this stuff is. do you think that they do?

>> no, not the kids. >> the school officials did absolutely nothing. they did not call the police, the school resource officer who is a police officer, that is supposed to be at the school was not there on the property that day and there was no replacement for him.ed so the school did not call the police for reasons we cannot answer. we don't know. they did not call 911 for young lady who just sustained a head injury. >> that brave young woman wanting her voice to be heard and again, that assault happened nine days before the alleged rape. the school district putting outa a statement saying they are committed to student safety but that family absolutely notme seeing eye to eye with the school system here. we will see what develops and it is certainly the reason why thet were protesters out here as we saw earlier. >> tucker: griff jenkins in rockville. the vice president taking prudent steps to avoid scandal

so our scandal-mongering media is ridiculing him. have we tumbled to a new low in politics? a panel up straight ahead. you dh

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for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. and if you do have an accident, our claims centers are available to assist you 24/7. call for a free quote today. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. >> tucker: "the washington post" andrew knew attention to an old pro to my profile would act in 2002, he said that he did not dine alone with any woman aside from his wife and does not drink at parties unless he is with him. that's all anyone can talk about tonight on socially. internal works of the white house, national security council, during bush and obama, and that both join us tonight. holy smokes. this seems like another opportunity to beat up on evangelicals.

they are so weird! this is not a crazy view among observant jews or orthodox muslims. is it? this is not a crazy thing, is it? >> if you want me to be honest? the first thing i thought was poor mrs. pence. can you imagine, all the hundreds of events she gets dragged to all the time? i would kill myself. >> tucker: [laughs] you know what this really means. >> i felt so terrible for her. what a terrible arrangement. she definitely got the short end of the stick. >> tucker: you live here as well, people have a tough time keeping their marriages together because it it's not a wholesome town. >> the city is a cesspool of sin.s in a lot of ways, i think this is a very interesting conversation to have because i respect their personal choice to do this and keep their marriage together. i think that's why it has worked so well for them. there are a lot of women in power, on both sides of the political spectrum who fall victim to temptation.

because of these things. they try to eradicate that. what i don't want to see happen is that women who work in government, let's say you have ideals or dreams of becoming chief of staff can't stay after hours and be around a boss because they may feel uncomfortable in that situation. feel like some discussion needs to be around that thing. there are a lot of women who consider themselves to be at the table but maybe feel like they are making their boss' wife uncomfortable by doing that. >> tucker: it is a tough thing. by the way, work relationships do flower sometimes interpersonal relationships. that's totally real but what i am struck by is the judgment from people who make a living denouncing others for judging, the editor of mother jones went on a twitter rant. clearly pretty unhappy person in her personal life, i guess. she was so offended by this. why be offended by that? >> i have no issue with it. i agree with ashley. when you take this into the

professional realm, outside to your personal life, do whatever you want. you be you and your marriage. i'm thrilled for you that you have found something that works. i would never want to judge somebody else's relationship but when it comes to you're public figure working in the u.s. government, which vice president pence has been for many years, how do you make this work so that it is not extremely disadvantageous? for females? >> tucker: i agree with you on that. like angela merkel. >> i agree with the outrage, that's a little -- >> tucker: almost 400,000 people have now signed a petition demanding melania trump to move to the white house from new york. she's already announced that she is coming here at some point. after her son finishes his time at school. for many years, you do not attack the first lady unless she does something unusual. what is this? >> this seems crazy to me

because she has said and it may be unconventional that she's not in the white house but she still doing first lady duties even still being out in the white house. because she wants her son to finish school, she somehow is now being blamed and the reason for it is they are paying an exorbitant amount of taxpayers' money for her security. what about all the vacations the obamas went on? >> tucker: government spending, i wish we had more time. thank you both. we will be right back. [laughs] various: (shouting) heigh! ho! ( ♪ ) it's off to work we go! woman: on the gulf coast, new exxonmobil projects are expected to create over 45,000 jobs. and each job created by the energy industry supports two others in the community. altogether, the industry supports over 9 million jobs nationwide. these are jobs that natural gas is helping make happen, all while reducing america's emissions.

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stamp out crime by firing cops and obesity by banning james. [laughs] hardly kidding. have a great night, "hannity" is next. see you tomorrow. >> sean: welcome to this busy newsnight tonight on "hannity." we are following two blockbuster reports. newt gingrich, laura ingraham and lou dobbs will join us. this a rift in the republican party needs to stop and they need to get their act together and keep their promises. but first, more on the developing story that we told you about last night surrounding former obama official, dr. evelynve farkas and the obaa surveillance of the trump transition team. tonight, brand-new information on the shocking public acknowledgment that she made earlier this month on a tv show that former obama officials are now raising a lot of eyebrows