s sp spdrr's. >> i've got the image. >> the cost of treem with david asman. you're watching the place for business, the only business entity growing, everyone else is shrinking and dying away, not us. keep that in mind. here is dave. >> today's executive action, i am taking historic steps to lift on american energy, to reverse government's intrusion and to cancel job killing regulations. . >> basically, you know what this says? you know what it says, right? you're going back to work. [applause]. going back to work. david: that was on tuesday. before the ink was dry, the global warming crowd declaring war on president trump's executive order rolling back climate change regulations. new calls for a massive climate march later this month to accusing him of being, quote, an exstenstial threat.

welcome to forbes on fox. let's go to steve forbes. mike, elizabeth macdonald, bruce. steve, the elimination of life on the planet? just a little bit of an exaggeration, no? >> before i went to the studio i looked in the sky to see if a meteor was coming to the earth so extension is not an option right now. trump has it right, either clean environment or prosperity is a false one. you get clean environment by prosperity. by removing the war on gas and coal. the war on coal was-- >> the stats on coal are frightening particularly if you live in a coal mining area.

bruce, the exaggerations on the climate warm being alarmists, doesn't it hurt their case to make exaggerations like this? >> i don't think so. some of the people who came out and criticized what the president did were the pope, the vatican, and exxon-mobile, that doesn't really-- >> exxon-mobile? >> a threat to the entire planet, do you buy that? >> listen, i tell you what i buy. i think that donald has given false hopes when he was surrounded by the coal miners, maybe some temporary abatement in jobs that reduce, but there's 75,000 coal jobs in this country and 650,000 renewable energy jobs. i mean, there are caterpillar here in illinois where i am. they have a mammoth truck hauler that coal miners operate-- that will not-- will be driverless, technology is taking their jobs, not climate change. david: that's true and mike, there's been a big shift from

coal to natural gas over the past ten years, a dramatic turnabout. we use today rely much more heavily on coal than natural gas and jobs, yes, it's true that we've had a lot of coal mining jobs go down, but look at the natural gas jobs go up. we've had more natural gas jobs added than coal jobs removed. >> and technology is a big reason for that, david. technology, if you'd gone back ten years ago, nobody was redistricting this, but it's advanced so much the amount of energy they can produce from shale because of chances in technology is extraordinary. itd' like to see trump abolish the department of energy. one reason why solar has gotten so many jobs. how about $2 billion in subsidies from the doe last year and also stop the subsidies to coals and other fossil fuels. they got 640 million of subsidies, let the marketplace sort it out. david: that would save taxpayers a lot of cash, too, you wonder--

we've had a lowering, e-mack, of greenhouse gases, 7% lowering since 2005. that's great, great to have less solution in our environment, but you wonder if it's because of regulations or if it's because of the market forces that have taken place, moving from coal to natural it was. >> it's the market forces. yes, we don't want pollution, everyone can agree with that and concern about climate change, we get it, but who is the best answer to fix it? who has the right answers? i think that the government has answers and net gas is driving down the emissions to 1992 levels. we're seeing, and you know what else we're seeing? the obama administration itself, david, said there would be no discernible impact on emissions from the own clean power plant for the next 30 years, so, instead. nat gas is stepping in and technology is stepping in. >> some conservatives say the epa is not going far enough, that in fact, the biggest climate change move by the obama administration was labeling carbon dioxide as a

polite pollutant. you've got to get rid of that to get the market forces moving, but will that cause more pollution? >> you know, i don't believe in the case that carbon dioxide is a pollutant. in fact, it's a resource. people forget there are something like 3,000 coal plants underway or in the works or being planned around the world. chiefly in china and india. there's an entrepreneur in india who's capturing carbon and repackaging this as baking soda. you know, you look at the stuff as a resource, not a pollutant. david: we've got to remember, every time we exhale we're polluting the world because that's a lot of carbon dioxide. what do you make, going back to the people on the left. there's so much to focus on in what they say. not only the exaggerations, often proved not true, but

often a hypocrisy there, is there not? >> oh, yeah, there's a total overreaction. let's remember the vast majority of the world's population continues to migrate to the very coastal cities that all of these weak-kneed hess terriks, and when it goes to this, they're confused and it's a dollar phenomenon. david: and the climate scientists, even if they're actors and everything, has it kind of been unmasked by recent events? >> yes, david. that's why if you look at the public opinion polls in how they rate climate change in terms of their worries, barely gets a bump of an asterisk outside of hollywood. the reason is they've been exaggerated. carbon dioxide, they're right, we couldn't live without the stuff.

and unnecessarily against oil, gas and coal, it's a moral outrage. an and when they remove the restrictions, they'll rise up again. david: bruce, does that concern you? that we may get an up tick in carbon dioxide. >> cities, states, trump's executive order, maybe there were his hysterics, but he says outlandish things, he would not predict how many coal jobs would be created. i'm guessing it's going to be zero. david: the point we made at the beginning, mike, the market forces are moving in at that direction, we're burning much

cleaner coal than we used to, the market forces are having a much more powerful input on cleaning our environment than regulations ever could? >> i think, david, people need to be reminded of two things, number one, those innovations you're talking about, they came from the private sector, not the government. so every dollar you tax to private sector these crazy green programs, you're taking out from the source that comes up with these exact new technologies. david: i've got to give bruce some credence here, e-mack, because he has the honesty to say i am not a scientist, which is something that john podesta and michael moore never would. >> i'm not a scientist either about you michael moore and john podesta are about bigger government spending. and by the way, the agreements they strike, china only has to voluntarily comply by 2030. these countries are doing it on their own via the private market.

he think the government is helping, but they figure it out. >> david, you don't need to be a scientist to detect b-s on the other side. david: that's the last word. you've got it. and using private sector ideas to cut government bureaucracy. some here say it might actually add more to the swamp instead of draining it. they'll explain coming up next. card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet?

>> this is a fox news alert. i'm elizabeth prann in washington. good saturday morning, brand new video coming into fox. vice-president mike pence getting on board air force 2 taking him to columbus, ohio taking part in a listening session with local business leaders about the local economy. he'll talk to local workers as well. we're going to bring you the vice-president's remark live during hurricane's news headquarters at 1:00 p.m. eastern. and dramatic video captured on off-- excuse me on the waters off of southern california. a sail boat capsizing in the

rough surf and slamming into a pier throwing all four people on board into the choppy water. search and rescue teams arriving right away and pulling all four people from the water. fortunately, no one was seriously hurt. one man saying they're very lucky to be alive. i'm elizabeth prann, now back to forbes on fox. >> draining the swamp by making the government act more like the private sector. the idea behind the president's office of innovation. son-in-law jared kushner will lead it with other business leaders. you like the idea why? >> i like it because i think you can combine innovation and taking out bloat in the government. the first part could be military procurement. there's a piece out this week how peter thiel's company created a data platform for the million for $100 million, but the military went with an

inferior program from another supplier for $6 billion. and that makes no sense at all. david: 6 billion. by the way, and it was an inferior product. it wasn't as efficient as the one that peter thiel came up with or his company. mike, there's no question you need more efficiency in the government. you look alt the size, the sheer size of the government workers, almost 3 million people and i worry about this maybe bloating that more, this committee. >> i agree with you, david, we don't need a bigger government. we don't need more bureaucracy. ronald reagan didn't have somebody with this title and he really let the animal spirits of this country bloom. i think what you do, you cut discretionary spending and i think you cut the size of government and you'll get all the innovation you need. david: well, steve, you have personal experience. you've worked in the government in the reagan administration. here is what jared kushner says and you tell us if he's onto something. the government should be run like a great american company. our hope is had a we can achieve successes and efficiencies for our customers who are the citizens.

what do you think? >> oh, there's badly needed reform in government. i used to head up the oversight agency for radio-free europe and liberty. we weren't officially a part of the government. ours were a fraction of voice of america, which was part of the government. there's a lot that can be done in defense, veterans administration, food and drug administration that would save lives and the differences, as trump would say, would be huge. absolutely. david: e-mack, one of the biggest achilles heels of government bureaucracy are the public sector unions. it's impossible to fire somebody, even if they're stealing stuff. how do you get around that? >> the first test pilot of this should be medicare and medicaid fraud, now trending at a quarter trillion dollar in waste, fraud and abuse. the thievery in those programs are industrial.

if this is happening in private sector, the government bureaucrats would be in jail. watch what texas is doing, smart card with fingerprints so medicaid people and beneficiaries could make sure they're tracking them and they deserve the money. tracking dead patients throughout the system and getting rid of it. they're using technology like software to track fake billing from doctors throughout the state. so this is the technology that could be put in place to stop wasting our money. >> so, sabrina as e-mack and rich suggested there are things to be done to make government more efficient, but when you think of that phrase, government efficiency, it's an oxymoron, all you have to do is cut the size of government. >> if john were here i'm on his side. i love the idea of making the government a bit more innovative, but the fact is that government is not the private sector, it does not have a bottom line, it does not have competitors, it cannot be steamlined the way that private

industry can. a far better approach, bull up the forbes top 100 companies most innovative, i looked at them this morning, lots of great ones out there. we don't need to grow government in order to learn that. david: just look at the numbers. we can quantify it, goa tried to, 137 billion dollars the waste and fraud in 2015, the most recent figures we could get. that's a lot of money. >> i know how to reduce waste. we should have kushner look at an american innovative, eliminate green energy subsidy. david: that's a good idea. rich, what you found out or what the investigators looking into this peter thiel deal found out and said, the pentagon wouldn't take 100 million contract they want with a $6 billion contract because the contractors that they went to were the ones that had their claws in k street. the lobbyists, the big rate

the raytheon companies, and how do you get them out of the process. >> you have to open up to nontraditional bidders in the state. there are terribly talented companies and people out there. jared kushner, forbes did a cover story on kushner's data operation during the presidential race and it was a model of speed and efficiency, they were the ones that spotted the wisconsin and ohio and michigan were actually in play and so, you know, he's the right guy on this process. david: mike, can it be done? can you get efficiency in something that's not efficient? >> yes, we've seen trump do it. he's already taken away some of the regulations that president obama had put in. and look, he dealt straight with boeing. he got down the price of that plane. trump knows how to do it. david: steve, the final point, it's still boeing and it still

is one of these companies that have their fingers deep inside of the washington bureaucracy. how do you pry those fingers loose? >> through transparency and making those bidding procedures public and allowing as rich said, untraditional companies to come in and reforming-- the pentagon should be doing this stuff, weapons systems in three to four years and not 20. david: the trump administration should be listening to the forbes people, they have the answers to the questions. we've got to leave it at that. the cashin' in gang getting ready to roll. what have you got? >> mark cuban diving in and joining us on cashin' in. his take on artificial intelligence taking our jobs. plus, you've got to see this to believe this. why i agree with liberal comedian steven colbert what congress just did that could cost us all our privacy. see you at 11:30. david: and the irish--

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>> as tax day is fast approaching some want a bigger budget for the irs.

>> more tax dollars for the tax man. that's what some house democrats are calling for. they say the agency needs more money to do its work. you say it's the opposite. explain your flip side. >> not a chance. the irs only exists so that congress doesn't have to do the dirty work of reaching into people's pockets in increasingly obnoxious ways to

take our money and spend it. we should take the money and let congress own up to the taxation policy. >> you say no? >> i'd give the irs another billion dollars. tax cheats are costing us 400 billion a year, if we can catch them, then the tax burden on john and the other honest people, i'm assuming he's honest, will go down by 399 billion. david: so sabrina, bill's point, you spend more now and you get more in return. >> i'd have to see the numbers on that one. i'm with john here, again, i think these are lawmakers that have been in washington too long and they have complete faith in themselves to make things better, and this sort of early 20th century progressivism. i do not have any confidence that theist or any other part of the government will make my life better. we should cut that at the irs and cut people's taxes so we can have a simpler more streamlined system. >> bruce, what do you think? >> the democrats aren't the

only ones like steve mnuchin, and the treasury secretary said that the irs fell under obama and he wanted to increase the size maybe we need more collectors to get more money in. david: here is specifically what mnuchin said during his nomination hearing, it's likely that further cuts to the irs will indeed hamper our ability to collect revenue. >> that's probably a good thing. look, in all seriousness, here is what i have to say. from 2010 to 2014, the irs spent $97 million refurbishing offices on things like new furniture. if they need money, let them use old furniture. david: yeah, i have it at home. from richard nixon, republican the lois lerner democrat, people use the irs for political purposes. that is why they should have

less. >> you don't increase the amount to the criminal enterprise especially under president obama 2010 election to suppress the voter turnouts and suppress the groups that opposed obamacare. that's a national scandal that was never published. as far as the irs, less is more. david: it's april fool's day and your foolproof picks coming up next. we ship has something in common. whether it's expedited overnight... ...or shipped around the globe, ...it's handled by od employees who know that delivering freight... ...means delivering promises. od. helping the world keep promises.

and we'll see you monday. e-mack, facebook why do you like it. >> they're taking away from competitors like snapchat. >> bill, you like that? >> and only company thinking it could be great at anything. >> moody's, why do you like that.

>> i want to know when the state of new jersey will file for bankruptcy. >> e-mack. >> it's got negative and debt, watch it for that. david: the number one business block continues with eric biology and cashin' in. >> the next generation would be justified in looking back at us and asking, what would you thinking? couldn't you hear what the scientists were saying? couldn't you hear what mother nature was screaming at you? >> that's a clip from al gore's new movie, truth to power, the sequel to "the inconvenient truth", as the film generates buzz before it hits theaters this summer, some critics here buzzing with the burning questions, are liberals like al gore raising the global warming hysteria and cashing in on that hysteria. i'm eric biology, in a few minutes businessman mark cuban