much. i am eric bolling, in for bill o'reilly. please remember the spin stops here, because we are looking out for you. >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight" ." forget the explosion of a single tomahawk mission demark missile today. the u.s. dropped the mother of all bombs, that is literally its name. the most powerful explosion ever, the weapons used -- there are a lot, in contrast to the previous one. watch. >> everyone knows exactly what happened. what i do is i authorize my military. we have the greatest military in the world. we have done its job as usual. we've given them total authorization.

and that's what their demark they are doing. that's why they've been so successful lately. compared to what has happened over the last eight weeks and what is happened over the last eight years, you will see a tremendous rate difference >> tucker: what does it mean to deploy a missile of the size? michael, usually we start this show with a debate of sorts but this story is still unfolding. we thought it would be useful to find out the facts. first, why now? did they deploy this today? >> thank you for having me. one of the reasons it has been deployed now is isis is starting to use a process that al qaeda is using. the same tunnel -- you see these organizations like al qaeda, noa

tunnel complex to kill americans in the past, this is on the heels of the recent death of a special forces soldier. it's an effective weapon. it's used in canyons and cave complexes, it's a massive weapon and really hard to go on precision strikes when you have so many -- >> tucker: give us a sense of the scale of the cave complex you are talking about. >> it goes from bora bora to the was dropped in, a series of caves that have not been destroyed. in 2001 and 2002, we basically were using explosions that would kill anybody in sight. this is used as an area denial weapon. what's important about this is isis was recently -- >> tucker: you keep the enemy from using the complex because it destroys the complex? >> it's a concussion that will actually hurt a lot of the

tunnels, the deeper tunnels we don't know. people in the taliban -- especially since it's on the heels of the attack of the special forces operatives. 2-4 days later, we are dropping the mother of all bombs in afghanistan against a tele- complex that isis is starting to use. >> tucker: it sounds like this complex has been here. the president said today that this action is a departure from the previous policies under president obama. why was this complex allowed to exist for all these years? >> it always happens in afghanistan every year, you expect enough demark an uptick in violence. they bring in weapons. >> tucker: why did they drop a similar ordinance on it, the previous administration? >> i think the symbolism of this

weapon, you basically have a mushroom cloud in afghanistan. the past administration was more focused on pushing the fight with the afghans. the afghan military on the ground, working with our special operators is really happen to have happy to have this in their arsenal now. >> tucker: what does it do? >> you have stopped the permissive environment that isis has been enjoying in this area. the taliban as well. >> tucker: how large an area is changed? >> a one-mile circumference. it just levels everything on the ground. it rebels things. they are still blocked, the tunnels, they are leveled in this case. it also makes it a place where a taliban fighter probably doesn't want to go anytime soon. an unclassified number of bombs is 15. we still have 14 more to use. we don't know how many were we

have. >> tucker: 15 total in the u.s. arsenal? >> that the unclassified number. if it's used on the right target. we would not use this on most of demark >> tucker: is this on the fight against isis? >> second and third order effects being very strategic. it's a message to tehran, damascus and moscow. it complements the tactical use of this complex. >> tucker: what message does this send to the foreign nationals? >> the next four years will dide

different than the last eight. he has delegated those decisions down to commanders on the groun ground. he is let experienced officers in general know the second and third order effects of using a bomb like this, to make these decisions. that sends a message that that's military, it sends a message to our afghan partners and our adversaries that this commander-in-chief will listen to his smart generals. >> tucker: please don't think we are overstating this, is this a big significance today? >> it's important to stop this. we have known about this for years. you have to do something about it. you have to negate this terrain. it's significant, it's the right weapon to use but detests strategic ramifications. >> tucker: michael, thank you for that. it's been one week since the united states obliterated parts of the syrian air base with 50

tomahawk missiles. the president hasn't taken any further action against president bashar assad. he must leave, he must lead leae country. he's not even convinced that assad was behind the chemical attacks. congressman, matthew of kentuck kentucky. state your position for us. you don't think assad was behind the chemical attack? >> the first casualty of war, we're going to have four versions of the story coming forward, we are going to have the u.s. version, the russian version, assad's version and then there's going to be the truth in there. we haven't been provided the details and i think it's incumbent for -- at least for

congress. when they gave us classified briefings, when they had everyone convinced assad had used chemical weapons, they were not able to tell us to believe with sufficient evidence that assad did it and that we should get involved. >> tucker: two things jump out at me based on what you just said. one, you listed the united states alongside russia and the syrian government, as equal believability. and you are a sitting united states congressman and you haven't seen evidence that convinces you. you're not in a position to demand that evidence? >> let me tell you what. it's not equal believability, obviously we are way more believable than russia or assad but what i am telling you is that it's going to be hard to find the truth now that we've already done the attacks and frankly, our government has no interest in finding evidence

contrary to the popular notion right now in the u.s. media that assad has done it and that should be questioned. >> tucker: there certainly the feeling that it should be questioned but again, i want to get back to your position as a sitting member of congress. the assumption is you are privy the information the rest of us aren't. are you confident that you are not able to get that information? you can just call up the cia or another intelligence agency and say i want the information? what would they say if you did? >> they probably would not provide it to an individual member of congress but we wouldn't do that on a phone line anyway. i would have to go to d.c. and get in that way. >> tucker: the information that you saw, the intelligence that was classified did not convince you? can you characterize it for us? >> that was in 2013.

in 2013, the reason it was classified was they did not want to disclose their intelligence gathering methods and that's fair. but i think there is some obligation to show something other than what we are seeing than the news clips, to the public in fact. >> tucker: the leaders of the republican party and leaders of the democratic party seem convinced -- what did they know that you don't know or are they just more trusting? >> they could be both. they could know things i don't know and they could be trusting but the burden of proof. here should be at least as high as it is as say, a murder case, we are trying assad for war crimes in the 24-hour news cycle right now. i'm not defending him. i am saying where's the evidence other than the news reels that

are coming out? >> tucker: if you can speculate, why aren't members of congress -- more of them, taking your position? >> good question, we are sending letters to president trump and we are sending a letter to paul ryan. that position is regardless of what you believe and what the appropriate response should be, this needs to be debated in congress. that is why we are sending those letters right now. ultimately you can debate the war powers resolution, the constitution, but at some point, somebody has to pay for $100 million of tomahawk missiles and any escalation that could happen and frankly, we've all got people in our districts that are put in the line of duty or go to war because of this act of war. this needs to come before congress. that is the position that my colleagues are taking right now. >> tucker: your district more than most.

i don't think it'll be something nancy pelosi's will be facing anytime soon. thank you for joining us congressman. two days ago sean spicer was denounced as a holocaust denier for claiming unlike assad, even hitler didn't use weapons. media outlets said he wanted to be fired for such a statement that wasn't simply wrong but immoral and an indication of bad character. also unprecedented. no one's ever said that before. perhaps you remember this? this is chris matthews bloviating about the first syrian chemical attack back in the summer of 2013. >> he basically put down a red line and say don't use chemical weapons. it's been enforced in the western community, we didn't use them in world war ii. hitler didn't use them. >> tucker: whoa, weirdly, no one at msnbc news mentioned chris matthews after denouncing

sean spicer for saying the exact same thing. nor did they run this piece which made the following observation. here it is. no western army used gas in the slaughter of world war ii. against combatants, however he and the nazis were known to gas. we will wait for nancy pelosi to call for his and chris matthews firing. don't hold your breath. united airlines humiliation grows ever deeper. the passenger reveals his plan to sue. i'm next, we will hear from the man's daughter. we will tell you about his injuries, which were profound. being investigated for a gruesome quadruple homicide in rhode island, it's not isis. could be a bigger threat to you and your family, we will tell you who it is. ...listen up.

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>> tucker: united airlines was not willing to pay more than $800 to company passenger, biggest mistake they've ever made. on the hook for millions instead. the family of david at dao, the doctor dried up the new united flight yesterday held a press conference and their lawyer said dao lost two teeth, suffered a concussion and may need surgery. his daughter said this. >> it's been a very difficult time for our entire family. we are truly grateful for your support. what happened to my dad should

have never happened any human being, regardless of the circumstance. we were horrified and shocked and sickened to learn what had happened to him and to see what had happened to him. >> t dao's lawyer said a lawsuit in the near future is of course likely. we will keep you updated on details that emerge. we want to bring with fox news alert. a dangerous foreign group has infiltrated this country, it's not isis. it is ms 13. a central american gangs. several of the gang's members could be responsible for a horrifying quadruple homicide. trace gallagher is here with more on that. >> the official cause of death is significant trauma throughout their bodies. they were tortured, in other words. beaten and cut in such gruesome fashion that the crimes immediately stood out as signature killings of ms 13, the

gang that specializes in murder. the victims were male, two of them 18, 116 and 120. their bodies were found in long island. not far from where the bodies, to 216-year-old girls were found. ten illegal immigrants. investigators say the uptick in violence is related to the arrival of ms 13 members from central america. while the getting started here in los angeles and has chapters across the country, their presence appears to be growing on long island. >> we are under no illusion that ms 13 is still operating in suffolk county. no doubt we've made tremendous progress, we've solved several murders and made hundreds of arrests but this is a long-term

war. >> a long-term war with a revolving door, this week and ms 13 member who has been deported four times was arrested for sexually assaulting a 2-year-old girl. and it's stopping to women including the child's mother. the suspect is now facing life in prison. we should note the message of ms 13 are so violent, they have been heavily recruited by mexico's drug cartel as enforcers. tucker. >> tucker: thanks a lot, trace. isis is to the new global standard for offal. and they are awful. the chattanooga terror attack, san bernardino, 16 deaths in just the past three years here in the u.s. on the other hand, it's nothing compared to ms 13. that organization, a mostly immigrant street gang is a far greater threat to isis. it's not just the body pile up smaller numbers, often they are

not. besides the four killings you heard about in new york today, the lynchburg teenager apparently murdered and left by the side of the road two weeks ago -- was killed by ms 13 members. all being here illegally. two girls butchered by machetes. in future editions of the show, we will go on and on. members have been caught running child prostitution rings, they've been contacted by mexican drug cartels, and of course they engage in the usual extortion, drug trafficking -- unlike isis, ms 13 makes it hard to live in neighborhoods here in this country. true active isis members -- pretty small, maybe a few hundred. ms 13 by contrast has

approximately 6,000 members in this country. and supported by more than 30,000 abroad. ms 13 is fundamentally a foreign threat. the administration is using a lot of firepower to seize insurgents in the middle east right now but what about the insurgencies right down the road from you here in america? that's exactly what it is. last night, we welcomed the mayor of lansing, michigan, that defended his decision to make it a sanctuary city. we have a hilarious story coming up. stop opposing immigration because it blows the economy? is it that simple? we will talk to them in a minut minute. luckily jack recently had geico help him with renters insurance. because all his belongings went up in flames. jack got full replacement

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every single one of you is on our list. for those who won't rest until the world is healthier, neither will we. optum. how well gets done. >> tucker: well, the sanctuary city of lansing, michigan, is no more. they voted 6-0 last week to make it sanctuary and this happened. >> my number one job, tucker, is to keep people safe. after 12 years i have been mayo mayor, public safety is job one. economic development is second. if they can increase safety in my community, i'd like to hear about it. it's easy for white men like us who are in the majority -- who enjoy what we enjoy -- >> tucker: i was taking you seriously at the beginning but

this is just buffoonery. the city council of lansing decided to reconsider their sanctuary resolution after they said it was bringing unwanted attention to the city and risking millions of city dollars. they voted last night to revert back to merrily being a welcoming steady instead of a sanctuary city. an economist and writer, published a piece of markets say americans ought to toughen up and accept immigration because it biggens the economy. the word on the simpsons but we are going to use it on our show. all valid questions, to be answered by ray keating who joins us now. >> biggens, i love it. >> tucker: we are rolling with it.

the underlying assumption is that all immigrants are the same. when in fact they are not. the value of a software engineer is different from a laborer. henry ford is different from members of ms 13. it depends on a coupon deal ups you make. >> bringing entrepreneurs in, immigrants tend to be more entrepreneurial than nativeborn, young immigrants help us in terms of people getting older, baby boomers retiring, there are people at varying skill levels that are largely complementary to the existing labor force. that helps everybody. that brings an increase in productivity. any economist is going to say there are obviously costs but the letter we signed, immigration is a net economic

part of the country. that's one of the few issues that economist actually agree on. >> tucker: i don't think that's an economic statement. that's a political statement. it's a menial statement. an economic benefit doesn't mean anything. there are a lot of people who lose and they are voters and citizens and they are being hurt by a policy that helps another and i would argue smaller number of people. it's meaningless. >> actually, it's not. it's standard economics 101. i don't want you to fall into that zero-sum idea. we only have so many jobs to go around. what we need its economic growth and that's what happens in the economy. this whole immigration debate is very frustrating from an economic point of point. i would rather see a growth agenda so that we are growing so robustly that we need workers from all around the world to come here. that's what we should be focused

on if we are really concerned about the economy. >> tucker: that's not an economist perspective, i appreciate the subtle pitch patriarchy as an economist. it's much poorer than it was 30 years ago. >> one of the key edges we have is our entrepreneurial dna if you will. immigrants tend to be risk takers, you left your country, you came here, that's a risky endeavor. that's why we see a higher rate of entrepreneurship among immigrants. >> tucker: didn't you just say as an economist and now you are talking about the dna of entrepreneurship? >> am i not allowed to use some nice language? i'd want to be boring about it. >> tucker: we always welcome theologians on the show. not when they pose as an

economist. there's no way to quantifiably measure -- >> scientist just did a study -- they did a study a few years ago with the george w bush institution, maybe pick up a economics 101 book as well. >> tucker: let me ask you this. i can see -- part of what you're saying is there a lot of energetic, smart immigrants. my business partner is one of them. i love them. there also a lot of immigrants who consume more in goods and services than they pay back. there's no disputing it and you know it. why not make an affirmative effort to import people with existing skills it and wealth, and then we can be much richer? >> why don't we have start up visas like countries do? that gets entrepreneurial immigrants into the country.

economic common sense can take hold and we can do some positive things on the economic growth in terms of immigration. the idea of focusing on -- the notion that we are blaming immigrants for our current problems, barack obama was great at stopping immigration because our economy was so bad we actually leveled off and people went back to mexico. >> tucker: we are veering from economics to value judgment. it's not a method of blaming. you are not asking my core question. why would a postindustrial economy such as ours continue to import people on the basis of family relations and physical proximity? if you live close but have no skills or education or money, you can get here. if you have relatives, same thing. why don't we shut down that and just import software engineers? >> we need people up and down the spectrum. i live on long island. i would drive past the

convenience store, and they were be people waiting around to do work that nativeborn people didn't want to do. let's agree, the key is to give back to an economic growth agenda that you and i agree on. tax reform, tax relief, regulatory relief, let's get the economy growing again and this immigration issue is going to go away -- we are going to get to the point where we say listen, how do we get people into this country? >> tucker: i've been listening to that kind of rhetoric for 35 years, cutting tax rates and everything will be fine. but i actually don't buy that. >> we can talk culture too but i thought that was theology, not economics. >> tucker: up next, heroin was invented almost 150 years ago

yet its use has exploded recently. our next guest says the culprit is capitalism. not drug laws or pharmaceutical companies. anyone can spy on you with easy drone use. there's nothing you can do about it because the law allows it. a creepy segment you will not want to miss. fun in art class. come close, come close. i like that. [ all sounds come to a crashing halt ] ah. when your pain reliever stops working, your whole day stops.

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and we're usaa members for life. >> tucker: heroin has been around for more than a century but the abuse of it has exploded in the past 20 years. what changed in this country to make that happen? the fourth part of our series this week: drugs. the worst opioid crisis in history, it's not the first time this has happened. aharon was first-come created 4 looking for a less addictive alternative to morphine. it was later marketed as a cough suppressant. heroin was being sold

over-the-counter across america. in a short period, the inevitable happened. people looking for pain relief became drug addicts. overdoses liked. signed into law by woodrow wilson, the act threatened jail time for doctors who gave opioids to drug addicts. this law controlled the problem. that was before oxycontin. the regulatory framework that worked a century ago is not adequate to address the problem of prescription painkillers. a government that was acted to protect its citizens from narcotics now subsidizes addiction. through medicaid and the va. governments have made -- companies have made billions, meanwhile drug overdoses have overtaken car accidents this as

the main death among young people. that's never happened before in american history. some have argued the real problem here is demand. americans want drugs and you can't blame that on the suppliers, whether they are mexicans cartels were legal drug companies. keep in mind that people who buy opiates don't function like normal consumers. opioids are physically addictive, they challenge the notion of free will. addicts are not choosing to use, they simply can't stop. congress saved lives by it clamping down on the supply of opiates. it works and there is evidence it again. the cofounder of compassion for addiction, he says the culprit in the question of opioid addiction is not the drug companies or congress but instead the system itself, capitalism. he joins us now. doctor, thanks a lot for coming on. we are doing a serious for a week this question. this alternative ways in here, i

want to remain open-minded. as i understand, your contention is that drugs and alcohol, even heroin, are not inherently addictive. but they only become a problem because the society in which they are used? >> that's not exactly what i say but thank you for having me come up first of all. thank you for doing this series. what i'm saying is that all drug use, is about people soothing pain, these are powerful painkillers and capitalism -- was very happy to prescribed opiates to people. these drugs don't only sooth physical pain but emotional pain. what i'm saying about addictions of all kind is that they are rooted first of all in emotional pain and particularly in trauma. the question is what conditions traumatize people? what conditions traumatize people are family violence, multigenerational trauma history, abusive situations in childhood but also extraordinary

stress on the parents who leave the children without emotional support and as a result in our society right now, both in your country and my country, canada, a lot more people are getting addicted. in your country it has gone up fivefold in the last ten years. >> tucker: i think what most of you are what you are saying is true. >> so many people are in pain, that's my point. >> tucker: let me ask you this question, however. if you flood a community with a physically addictive substance, as is alkyl as you know, you are more likely to have a higher percentage addicted. why when you have more heroin addicts? >> as an american judge said, you can no more repeal the law of supply and demand and gravit gravity.

wire summary people in so much emotional pain? not just drugs by the way but also alcohol for sure. cigarettes are killing people much more lethally than opiates are. people are addicted to gambling, shopping, sex, these are addictive patterns. rooted in emotional pain and trauma. if we want to deal with these questions of addiction, what is traumatizing so many people? in your very excellent series, you talked about a county in kentucky. one of the poorest counties in the state where there are a lot of opiate addictions. don't you think the poverty and loss of jobs and the loss of hope and connection has a lot to do with my people are addicted? >> tucker: it's self-evident that that's true. here's the point i would dispute. a lot of what you said is true but not all addictions are the same and their effects, there's a weird kind of relativism --

smoking is totally bad for your health but it doesn't cause you to neglect your children or lose her job or beat your wife. other addictions do. >> no they don't. >> tucker: heroin is an imminent threat to your life. it can make you incapable of going to work. of course it does. >> in vancouver, let me tell you a fact. in international studies in germany and switzerland and in the u.k. and in canada, we have actually had clinics that describe heroin -- they hold down jobs, they are good with their families. and they don't break the law. what creates the problem with heroin addiction is mostly the arbitrary laws that say it's not okay to use heroin but it's okay to kill yourself with cigarettes and by the way, alcohol as you know causes a lot of violence much more than heroin does. >> tucker: you're not going to hear me defending alcohol.

there's a lot wrong with that comparison but of course we are out of time and i appreciate you bringing up the topic. it's more complex than a lot of us perceive. thank you for coming on tonight. up next, jennifer griffin was at the pentagon when the call was made to launch missiles on syri syria. telling us what it's like to be there when life or death decisions are made. stay tuned. he's green money, for spending today. makes it easy to tell you apart. that, and i am better looking. i heard that. when it's time to get organized for retirement, it's time to get voya.

as after a dvt blood clot,ital i sure had a lot to think about. what about the people i care about? ...including this little girl. and what if this happened again? i was given warfarin in the hospital, but wondered, was this the best treatment for me? so i asked my doctor. and he recommended eliquis. eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots and reduces the risk of them happening again. yes, eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots. eliquis also had significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. both made me turn around my thinking. don't stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness.

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>> tucker: time now for "the friend zone," a lot of interesting people here so it's nice to talk to them. they're joined by one of the most interesting, jennifer griffin. she was very close by when the calls were made to unleash the mother of all bombs last night.

you were there, how do you find out? exactly a week ago was the syrian strike. our sources -- we were pursuing a location where we saw bashar all assad -- they say wait a minute, why do you know the space? it was very clear there was something afoot, we did not want to give away any operational details so we actually had to hold our reporting and in the process, you start bartering with resources and we found out that the strike was going to happen at 840 5:00 eastern. we actually being ended up being second. we held it just enough that we had to get the second source but we knew it was at eight: 45. >> tucker: i am aware because i was on the air.

what's cool about your life is you have lived and been in so many of those places, i suppose you can picture where these fights are taking place. >> today was particularly surreal. we were reporting on this mother of all bombs, appropriately named and when i think of how my day started -- i have three kids like you, tucker. i was doing school drop off and i knew i had to get to the pentagon. i was late for work. it was picture day for my son. and he said mom, my tie. i was torn between -- we didn't know the bombs had been dropped at that point but i knew that we had things to do so i had to turn around, go home, get the school outfit for the school picture and then rates into the pentagon. it just as i was getting seated thinking i was doing one thing, we learned they had dropped this

21,000-pound bomb. what i remember about that providence province, we lived in pakistan and afghanistan and my husband decided it was a good idea to take me to kabul for our honeymoon after he married in 1993. >> tucker: there it is right there. that's your husband? >> that's more recent, that's a couple years ago. the chairman -- >> tucker: if you spend your honeymoon in kabul, that is a very interesting life. where is that by the way? >> that's alaska. that's 1994, in kabul. there was a civil war. we were there, trying to figure out what was going on. it was before the taliban had been formed. we were there in islamabad when the government started

recruiting for the taliban. >> tucker: unbelievable. with global consequences. jennifer, thank you for coming on. i'm glad you got picture day squared away. we will be right back. ...only allstate sends you a bonus check for every six months you're accident free. silence. it's good to be in, good hands. dearthere's no other way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced, our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden,

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>> tucker: unmanned drones have been used as a military weapon for decades, without endangering american lives. they are now a popular tool for civilians. a general counsel at the national association insurance company, the rise in popularity of drones could endanger your privacy and ways you have not even thought of yet. tom, thank you for coming on. drones we think of as something that take place in the northland frontier territories of pakista pakistan. how could our lives be affected by drones? >> by 2021, they're going to be 3 million a hobby drones and hf

a million commercial drones. they will be doing all kinds of things. the federal aviation administration which controls drones has said their jurisdiction extension is to ground up. they have declared all space to be national airspace -- your front yard is national airspace. >> tucker: a drone could legally hover outside somebody's bedroom window and spy on what is going on? >> as long as it is following faa rules, it's a national airspace, not your private airspace. you can't control where it is, the faa says it can be there as long as it's allowed to be there under faa rules, it's allowed to see what it sees and record what it sees. >> tucker: am i allowed to shoot it with a 12 gauge? >> no, you are not. the faa says they basically override your private property rights.

>> tucker: honestly. if you broke up and there was a drone with a camera hovering outside your bedroom window, there are no resources -- >> they are trying to establish who has what right. but the faa initially has taken the position that since is national airspace, that drone is allowed to be in that area. >> tucker: is not totally orwellian or am i just imagining it? >> we are working very, very hard to change these rules. i think the faa understands these rules have to be changed. we have talked to industry, congressional people, regulatory people. we think a reasonable area would be 200 feet above property or houses. that's your property. rather than the government telling you what you can do, americans have the private property right and --

>> tucker: you can hit it, 200 . tom, thank you for joining us. "hannity" is up next. thanks for watching. >> this they fox news alert, the u.s. military was dropped being called the mother of all bombs, on a target in afghanistan. here is president trump earlier today reacting to the massive nonnuclear military strike. >> really another success, we are very, very proud of our military. everyone knows exactly what happened so what i do is i authorize my military. we have the greatest military in the world and they have done a great job as usual. that is what they are doing. frankly that's why they have been so