have a great easter. sean will be back on monday. thank you for being with us. good night. ♪ >> greg: i'm greg gutfeld, and for bill o'reilly who is on vacation for w thank you for watching this "factor" special. if you like your cave, you can keep your cave. >> that strike delivering 22,00, supporting isis transport in eastern afghanistan. >> greg: it was the blast felt around the world. the mother of all bombs. at least, that's what the media keeps calling it. is that evidence of gender bias? i know i'm offended. what's more inoffensive to so many media types is that it's a bomb. a big bomb in a time of war.

thee size and scope now the subject of so s much concerned. >> the blast heard around the world. the biggest conventional bomb the u.s. has ever used. >> the u.s. military pulled outt the big guns in the fight against isis today. a 21,000-pound bomb, the largest nonnuclear weapon in the united states has ever used. >> afghan witnesses living in miles away from where the bomb was dropped said they could feel the earth shake when it detonated. it's a devastating weapon. >> called a massive ordnance air blast, but its nickname? the mother of all bombs. 22,000 pounds, the largest nonnuclear bomb the u.s. has ever dropped in combat. >> greg: wow! this is a point of fact. do you know will what a nonnucr bomb is? it's a bomb! and so predictably, the media and celebrities freak out over a strategy that addresses the

world beyond #slogans on twitter. george takei you remember him? former "star trek" actor and online school? he tweeted this. "dropping bigger bombs does not make you a bigger man, donald." thanks, george. your hot take has the strength of a farewell scribble on a high school yearbook. we get it. the bomb is pretty big, but you have to use big things to stop bad things. it was used to pulverize an area where isis lives and breathes. it killed 36 dirtbags. and yes, it probably costed us. but in money, not life or limb. that's what we call in scientific terms "a bargain." which brings us to joey jones. during his last deployment to afghanistan, jones disarmed and destroyed more than 80 improvised explosive device. on august 2010, he stepped on an ied, losing both legs above the knees. after the bomb was dropped in eastern afghanistan on thursday, he tweeted this.

"i lost my legs because my government was afraid to use the tools they had and saw me as expendable and i wish had this administration." that's pretty strong stuff. his point? bombs like this clear places where you should take life and limbs of those who hades that jb before. so using this tool, it's quite a shift. so we in the media, we are put off by big bangs. but the bigger they are, the less likely we lose or injure heroes like jones. and it also sends a message that we not have the tools, but we will use them. it's a message heard not just by isis, but by north korea.ot remember, tomorrow is the founder of north korea's birthday, when theirir leaders usually try to show off withof their own brand of fireworks, it's pretty exciting. america beat them to it, with a preemptive strike to rattle the cage of a fiend who loves to rattle ours. that was just one bomb in

eastern afghanistan. that's what i call multitasking. so joining us now from atlanta to react, the aforementioned joey jones. joey, as always thank you for your service and for your sacrifice. i have to ask you, you tweeted this quickly. why were you so compelled to get your opinion out there so soon? >> thanks for having me on, greg. this is an issue that's really important to me. i lost my leg in afghanistan in 2010 and i don't make second wishes for want to change things, i lost friends that that was well. the reason that happen is because we went into a ghost to clear it of ieds, a town we wanted to take so we can neutralize all of the ieds stockpiles. all of the bad things stockpiled there. we did people warning we were coming. it was a goes down by the time we got there. but they also turned it into a minefield because they knew wewe were coming. so there is no risk of civilian casualties, or very little risk. we got to make recommendations on how to clear this piece of

property for this town and get rid of these threats. one of the requisitions was to 1 of the recommendations was to use ordinance or a bomb and just wipe it off the face of the earth. no one was living there, there is nothing but bad things there. but the headline and newspapers that could've read dropped bombs in afghanistan, that political collateral wasn't worth it. you know, that's how we felt in 2010. that's how i felt for a long time. when i saw this headline and read more about it and understood the commanders were given the opportunity to use a bomb instead of sending more green berets in there to die like a few days ago, that was an amazing thing to me, that the change in procedure, and it's something i feel like we should recognize. >> greg: i think it was an excellent point. i didn't conceive of your point until i read it, and i just said, wow, that's common sense. the idea that you just clear the place, why aren't we using our own human life when you can just drop something and clear it out?

i don't know. how have your fellow veterans reacted to the bomb and maybe your reaction, was everybody in agreement, was there some conflict? >> well... on today's twitter, any time you tweet something out, there is pro trump, there are a group of people who will and celebrate that and there are a group of people who will rise up and condemn it. i had an interaction with one veteran who lost his legs in afghanistan as well and he really took, i guess, objection with the idea i was contributing this, to the change in rules of engagement that it's not necessarily a change in rules of engagement. it's a change in perspective. it's a change of intent from our commander-in-chief.ne what's more important what'se make our lives and the mission at hand or how it is perceivedor in the world? everyone is talking about the messages that the mill was absent, and it's a statement , i think the most important message it sent was tota the troops on the ground fighting and the generals and girls commanding, letting them know

that when they have and the troops know they have an opportunity to accomplish a mission without putting their necks on the line every single day to protect themselves, their brothers and sisters, that's now an option.'s that's what i celebrate it, that's why i put it out there. >> greg: do you think president obama understood your perspective at the time? you are making perfect sense, a weaponry of this magnitude can minimize our own troop casualty and suffering. i can't believe he thought, you know, i don't want to risk thatc but did he miss the boat? >> well, i had dinner with president obama, he was gracious. most of the commanders were there. he asked me hypothetically if i was back in afghanistan right now, what i would do, meaning back where i was at. my initial thought was to say i would step left.my i stepped right, it didn't work out well. l i told him where i was at and what i was doing made a huge difference. i can't speak to the rest of tha country. i don't have his perspective. he didn't necessarily have mine. i hate critiquing a man who's

done eight years on the job and is gone. i know how i felt in 2010 was unsupported, and i believe from the feedback and what i know, the marines servinr now and the service member serving now feel supported in a different way. >> greg: thank you, joey. i hope to talk to you soon. i'm glad you ditched the bow tie.e. you look so much better in your regular long tie. that is just me. all right. >> i did it because of you. >> greg: i know. let's turn to richard goodstein, democratic strategist. richard, you just heard joeyo slam the previous administration -- not so much, but kind of slam for not using a bomb like this. do you think he has a point? i know you are not the bad guy in this. >> first of all, none of us can even think about putting ourselves in joey's position. you would have to think bad thoughts of whoever was in charge if that's how you came out of the war. obviously hats off to him. we owe him a big debt. fact of the matter is, there are more people though who lost

their limbs and who died in afghanistan when george bush was president who presumably wasn't as tethered as barack obama was. so somehow or other, it's not a function of what obama did or didn't do. incidentally, the facts are, it was under president obama that this mother of all bombs got i deployed into the area. and then it was up to general nicholson to decide where and when to use it..o the suggestions on how that even donald trump could lie about this one when he was asked, was this your decision. even he knew better than to live. the general would have basically countered him. >> greg: richard, richard, richard. they moved the bomb. it wasn't used. president obama dithered. that was always the problem. he had a problem dealing with the military, let's face it, and the military had a problem dealing with him. or else he would've done what joey would've asked, right? >> well, the fact is, again, when you have general nicholson on air, ask him why he did it the other day and not several, months ago. but with all due respect to joey, we've heard his

prescription before, which is, we need to destroy the town to save it.t. that's what we came out with vietnam, right? we saw how well that worked. we can't go door-to-door, we aren't going to going to kill enough isis with bombs or weapons. it's collateral damage, though. >> greg: there is no collateral. no civilian casualties. >> we killed 36 isis. >> greg: that's collateral? >> we killed 16 friendly freedom fighters the day before.om that was a bigger percent of the syrian freedom fighters than the 36 were of isis. that's taking one step forward and two back. that's not a way to win the ware >> greg: i would say killing three dozen isis fighters -- >> i'm all for it. don't get me wrong. incidentally, actors don't speak for the democratic party. chuck schumer and nancy pelosi do. they said this is a proportionate use of firepower. there should be no question among your audience whether

democrats are for or against this. i think this was wise, but thank you, general nicholson, he has nothing to do with what donald trump ever did. >> greg: the greater truth in the last week, donald trump drew a redline, acted. obama drew a redline, retreated. >> again, what is the policy in syria? we know what it was when he was running, which was, stay out. when he was tweeting, it was, don't bomb. now it's bomb?hi incidentally, this is a project pothole.e. that's what we did on that runway. a few months from now, let's talk again, greg, and see if donald trump has a strategy that got us anywhere. >> greg: we will be talking about that. i'm sure we will.s thank you, richard. a pleasure. next on "the rundown," the standoff over north korea and its nuclear program. at a boiling point. can a military conflict be avoided? back with that in a moment. their day to try a new feature from match. so sara, what did you do today?

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>> live from america's news headquarters, i'm in new york. new york police said they have steak and trickle people into custody following a stampede at penn station. it started after some people thought they heard gunshots. it turned out to be police chasing a man. they say the man was belligerent after getting off a train which had been stuck in a tunnel for more than two hours. police say 13 people were hurt.

joining protests at the planned execution which are set to start monday night, the state was rushing them because the supply of sedative used in the protocol is due to expire by the end of april. arkansas has not executed an inmate since 2005. vice president mike pence travel to south korea saturday as part as a scheduled ten-day trip to mark his first official visit to the pacific region. tensions are rising that north korea could conduct another missile tests. delta airlines now offering nearly $10,000 in vouchers to bump passengers. that raises their capital by nearly 85 -- raises their cap by nearly $85. now back to "the o'reilly facto

"the o'reilly factor. >> greg: in the "impact segmento tonight, the standoffwith north korea, the united states is bracing for a possible nuclear test by the rogue state. military tensions are escalating to dangerous levels. joining us now from d.c. withry the latest, our own world fox news chief washington correspondent james rosen. james, are we about to go to war with captain crazy pants, i'm referring to the punk in the pantsuit in north korea? >> likely not. >> no? >> what we are seeing really is the trump administration trying to send a message to north korea. and also its patron state in china that business as usual can't go on like this any longer. they have been testing nuclear devices for over ten years in north korea. some 2 million people have starved to death in that country to fund this program. and they had this extraordinary ballistic missile inventory which they keep testing. and our allies in that region, japan, south korea, others are very anxious about it. but i think president trump and

his national security team know very well that unilateral action against some facilities in north korea or anywhere on north korean soil would represent a very different case for retaliation from the target then we saw from syria where the retaliation was zero. they would probably escalate this swiftly, north korea, and put at danger potentially tens of thousands of citizens in seoul, south korea. >> greg: is it just me thinking that it is suddenly heating up, or is this some sort of ritual that happens with every new president that north korea just pops up within 3-6 months. it feels like for some reason this is hotter. >> it is because north korea's progress on the nuclear path has been slow but steady. and it's already considered tha they potentially have the ability to outfit a missile, a medium-range ballistic missile, with a nuclear warhead that could potentially strike japan or south korea, and they are working on longer range ballistic missiles on being able

to miniaturize the nuclear warheads so they can strike the continental united states. this is not sci-fi scenarioo stuff. they have been making steady progress. so it's hotter now for that reason.ar there has been a policy review underway in the trump h administration. and according to published reports, that review basically comes down on the side of saying, let's try to pressure north korea more and get china more involved in doing that. but no engagement with that regime right now, and the military option either. >> greg: you know, i keep thinking, where is dennis rodman? here is a guy who knows donald trump from the "celebrity apprentice" and also visited north korea and chummed it up with the reported nutbag. looks like maybe he can be the bridge.. >> this is kind of the diplomacy that greg gutfield exhibits for years now. here's my solution, honestly. to keep it quick, it has to be regime change.ui

so an obese young man known for an unhealthy lifestyle and subjected to great stress of leadership one day failed to awaken in his bed. and before most north koreansd can even absorb that news, a new ruler who has no ties to the kim family but who has all the right impeccable credentials with the north korean military and the communist party isle effectively installed after having been vetted properly by the chinese government. and he promises to carry on thec good and glorious work of the kim family but while improving the lives of ordinary north koreans. and eventually the chinese come and visit that ruler, legitimacy is conferred on the regime thereby.fe and slowly, after what we would call after a decent interval, this regime starts to liberalize the markets and political freedoms in the country and start to make movest to join the world economy, sort of the way china did in the 1970s. >> greg: that is a long listha of dreams. i wish that would be the case.

but i don't know. we haven't seen it for decades. we now go to former u.s. ambassador to the u.n. john bolton on his take for where we go from here. he joins us from washington. it's good to see you, ambassador. what is your take on the events and what advice would you give to the administration?ts >> i don't think a strategy that relies on pressuring north korea to give up its nuclear weapons is going to work. look, we tried for 25 years across republican and democratic administrations to persuade the north koreans to give up their quest for nuclear weapons. we have tried persuasion. it's failed. we've tried coercion. it's failed. because the fact is, this regime is never voluntarily going to give up nuclear weapons. they are the ace in the hole. n this is the regime's insurance of its long-term viability. simple pressure, they resisted. beyond that, the only country that can put effective pressure

on them is china, which understands very well how fragile this regime is. and china fears if it puts too much pressure on the regime, it will collapse. that's actually what our objective should be. what we need to do is explain to china that it is in their interest, despite years of policy to the contrary, it's in their interest to see north and south korea reunited in a sensible way. that would end the north korean nuclear weapons program and in my view, that's the only way it's going to happen. >> greg: are you optimistic at all about this? i mean, do you see -- when i saw donald trump meeting with the chinese prime minister, i was thinking possibly something could happen, there could be a deal made. what do you think?? >> look. the chinese have been -- i will be polite, schizophrenic about this for 50 years. they say we do not wantha north korea to have nuclear weapons, but they have not done one thing that's materially impeded north korea fromon achieving that. we have reporting today in the media that china has been muchwe

more supportive of north korea's ballistic missile program then we had known before from fragments of a missile that went down in the east china sea. there was a lot of information that shows how connected china has been. and the only way to affect that, really, is to convince them that a reunited korea will not have american troops on the river looking across into china. it happens, we do not want to be on the river anyway. there is a deal here. one of the reasons i think we are still pressed now is that after eight years of the obama policy of strategic patience, which is really a synonym for doing nothing, north korea's capabilities worldwide are much greater. let me add one other point. when north korea gets the capability to drop an icbm with a nuclear warhead on the united states, iran will have it the next day for the right price. >> greg: it seems that every president inherits the crazy aunt in the attic, which is north korea.

could trump actually try a different approach? is it possible that we can finally deal with the aunt and have her committed? >> well, your suggestion was that dennis rodman go to north korea. maybe i should go with dennis. let's see what we can work out here.ha honestly, think about this regime. it's the world's only hereditary communist dictatorship. 25 million people in north korea live in a vast prison camp. in the 1990s, the populationn began to starve. there was a depopulation in the cities as people left to go stay with friends and relatives in the countryside where at least there was food. and yet the regime stays in power. they are devoted, obviously, to that. that's why i say this nuclear capability is their ultimate insurance possibility. they aren't going to give it up. if they did, it would be the end of regime.

>> greg: you bring up a great point. whoever solves this problem solves an amazing humanitarian issue. you've got 25 million people in prison. if the president or someone canf solve that problem, i think that is a nobel prize. you know what? i think it might be. don't you think? >> there is a famous map of the korean peninsula at night that shows the cities of north korea. you can see the entire southern half of the peninsula. the north is completely dark. it's like it's part of the seas on either side of north korea. it is a humanitarian disaster. that's why the only solution that will work is reuniting the two koreas peacefully. >> greg: all right, ambassador.ce thank you so much. straight ahead, trump's apparent position shift on foreign policy. it will alienate his base? that debate moments away.

>> greg: today, president trump foreign policy, the president giving many people whiplash this week aftervi modifying previous positions on everything from nato to china to manipulate in its currency. but it's president trump aggressive stance on military intervention that isn't sitting well with some of his staunchest supporters. >> if he puts another foot into syria, he will never get out and we will never get out of the middle east and it will consume his presidency. >> for that region of the world, assad is one of the betterl leaders.s there are probably only one or two that are better than he. he's not even like a saddam hussein murderous thug. he helped us after 9/11, giving us intelligence. it's a very strange thing we've done here. i feel like it is such a departure from what trump said

on the campaign trail. and in 2013 on his twitter feed. >> greg: joining us with reaction from washington, stuart holliday, former ambassador for special political affairs at the u.n. and from oklahoma city,an chris wilson, former advisor to the ted cruz presidential campaign. you first, is president trump his base with all of these reversals? >> all you have to do is go to the comments section on breitbart news and you will see how the alienation has become. i've a good friend who is actually the leader for the sanders movement, they moved over and supported trump. we had a lot of interesting debates about that, shall we say. because of his -- the comment earlier to me, when you have donald trump taking the same positions as lindsey graham and john mccain, he is alienating those of us who got him elected. now, i find myself in a unique position. i actually agree with the policy, but i watched in amazement as someone who was against him in the primaries and saw the true illustration of his comments.

you can see him on fifth avenue shoot people and not lose supporters, he would not lose supporters. but now finally they are starting to see that his t acomments and the only thing n coulter said that i agree with is that he said a different thing on the campaign trail thae what he's doing today. whether you agree or disagree with it, the fact he's doing it and he's losing his base because of it. >> greg: chris, two things you did wrong.d one, you read the commentsct section of a political website. why would you do that? and a politician changing his mind? that's what they do! that's what they are born to do. stuart, what do you have to stay to this? is trump going to lose all those hard-core anti-global support because of all of this?o >> chris knows more about grassroots politics than i do. i would say the president campaigned on strong national defense. the tomahawk missile strike in syria is a long way from deploying, you know, half a million ground troops on the ground and getting back in a major way. and you've got to be able to walk as president and chew gumum at the same time.

the world doesn't stop. the problems continue. we have threats out there. i think a lot of people, conservatives, are going to be looking at, do they have a job? you know, is the health care situation going to be resolved? on this stuff, we've got to be able to protect our borders and advocate for a very strong military, which i think he did during the campaign. >> greg: that is a good point,ry chris. the fact is, he won by projecting toughness. and, i mean, what he did in syria, it is the same thing. i worry about a politician who is too stubborn or has an unbending view of everything and he can't evolve. >> well, no, i completely agree with you. i agree with what stuart said too. what he's doing with projecting strength is different from what we've seen in the past. the fact is, what he promised is an american first policy, if there was spending on the military, it would be for at

home, and frankly, i think most people thought it would be spent on the wall. we've got to separate hear whatt he's doing and whether it's the right thing or wrong thing, and how his base is reacting to it. that is the unique situation he finds for himself and if he did not allow himself because of the rhetoric on his campaign, because of his last statements, did not allow him room to grow. because of that, he's having this backlash with a very good portion of his base. not just on foreign policy. also his treatment ofy. steve bannon, the elevation of jared kushner. you o are seeing an eruption tae place. i think this puts him in jeopardy for the first time since he announced his candidacy and really began to take these positions that puts him in a very difficult situation with those people who stood by him no matter what happened. s access hollywood, comments about john mccain. this is the one thing that could drive a wedge here. >> greg: here is the difference. he's now president. i mean, a lot of times, once your guy gets in, you are just

happy he won, right, stuart? as long as he sticks to the wall, he doesn't sacrifice the wall, i'm okay with him? this other stuff. i think we might be confusingg ann coulter and pat buchanan and the comment section of breitbart with america. it's the people that speak the most. >> i was going to make that point, which is, you have these very loud, notable voices in the movement that get a lot ofe attention. i think the press likes to stir things up too. saying, look here, your core supporters are questioning your commitment to what you said ind the campaign.n. i bet if you polled all those working-class people out there in the field, the people crossed over the lines, the scoop jackson democrats who voted for him. these people care about the jobs and they care about a strong national defense and restoring american leadership. i would be interested to see the difference between what they say and what these other media outlets are saying.

>> i think the good news is that when you elect a dealmaker that operates on flexibility, you are going to get a dealmaker that operates on flexibility. one day he's a globalist, oneli day he will be a protectionist. that's the way trump is. gentleman, thank you. coming up next, how the united p airlines controversy will impact you the next time you step on a plane. don't go away.

>> greg: in the "unresolved problem" segment, the fallout from united airlines incident, the issue is putting united and the entire airline industry. joining us to analyze, travel editor for cbs news, peter greenberg. it's got to be a nice job title. i doubt people do not pull you off the planes. >> actually, they try. >> greg: really? >> of course. that's how stories start, like we saw in chicago. >> greg: what are a person's rights when they're on the plane? >> well, you have rights before you get on a plane, you have

rights when you are on a plane. if you are holding a seating pass and sitting in your seat, this goes back to the days of ralph nader when he got bumped in 1975 from allegheny plane any suit, that led to all the rules that are in place now.ll denied boarding compensation. you're sitting in your seat, we are looking for volunteers, emphasis on the word "volunteer." you get return for a cash you get return for a cash voucher, limited amount, and the promise to get you in your destination within a certain amount of hours. now if nobody gets up and volunteers, the value of that voucher goes up. it's an option. >> greg: understandably, yes. >> i was on a plane once. went $300 to $400 to $500, it went up to $800, got up to $1500. you know what, i'm going to do this. i got trampled. everyone got off. what you saw here in chicago is it stopped at $850. >> greg: it's cheap, and then they are paying through the nose. because they wanted to save a few ndred bucks.

that guy -- he's going to own the airline! >> united airlines does not want this case to go to court. they are going to want to settle this as fast as they possibly can. >> greg: yeah. yelove the lawyer. i don't have his name in front of me. thomas demetrio. i do have his name in front of me. they asked of racism played a role, he dismissed it. i thought, you know, that is refreshing to me. he could've used that card if you wanted to and he said no. >> you do not have to use that card in this case. the airlines use these sophisticate algorithms to figure out who to pull off on the one, and it's based on who paid the least amount of the ticket. i am a megamillion miler. i am the last guy they pull off, even if they try. here is the deal.li if you don't get up, the only way they can pull you out of that seat is if you are on drugs --g: >> been there. >> offensive bodily order. have you been there? >> greg: no. 2 out of 3. >> and if you are a fugitive of

justice. he was none of those. and therefore they violated everything. >> greg: so many people are medicated on airlines. if you just wake somebody up, s they are disoriented, they act differently, that could've been aa problem. i don't know with this particular fellow. >> no. that wasn't the case at all here.. you have all of these eyewitnesses here. however, if they hadn't shot the video, for the passengers hadn't shot the video, we would've never known that story, he would've been in jail foras violating federal law of disobeying a flight attendant. >> greg: now everything is captured. when you do your job no matter where you are, that cell phone that can change your life. >> part of job training in the service arena has to be, you are being watched. be>> greg: this is not my idea. scott adams had mentioned it. watching the tape of the people that were outraged, they still didn't get up off their seat. so they got reimbursed, they got

offered reimbursement, a lot of people were screaming, "oh, my god, this is terrible," but they weren't getting up. >> they were asking for volunteers. it's not like the military where they need volunteers, they are asking. that is not the max. an hour ago, delta airlines is emphasizing that their own employees can go for $10,000. not how much it cost, but how much it works. >> greg: and multiply just to get bumped. i get to stay free in some hotel room, sit in my boxers, watch bad movies. all right, enough about me., up next, kansas announces its first conviction for voter fraud by a non-u.s. citizen. how many more prosecutions are headed to punish illegal voting? "the factor" is coming right back. back.

headquarters. >> live from america's news headquarters. i am jackie ibanez. a manhunt in wisconsin is over. on the run for ten days after stilling an arsenal of weapons from a gun star. police mailed a manifesto to president trump. he was found early this morning asleep on someone's property. >> good friday, and more than one way. we would like to report that the fugitive that has been sought in

a nationwide manhunt for the last week and a half, joseph jakubowski, has been apprehended last night about 7:10:00 p.m., the burning county sheriff's department received a message from a resident reporting that someone was trespassing on their property and sleeping in a makeshift tents. >> a jury acquitted former new england patriots tight end aaron hernandez in the shooting death of two men in 2012. the verdict comes two years to the day after he was convicted in another killing. he is serving a life sentence for that conviction. protests planned tomorrow in several cities to demand president trump release his most recent tax returns. polls suggest 74% of americans want him to release them. the white house has not said if there is any intention for the president to release his returns. president trump previously saying people, "don't care about his taxes.

>> announcer: "the o'reilly factor." the number one cable news show for 16 years and counting. >> greg: thank you for joining us for this "o'reilly factor" special. and in the "factor follow-up" segment tonight, voter fraud in kansas this week. victor david garcia, g a peruvian national, pled guilty to illegally votinge three times. he did it in a 2012 special election, plus the general elections of 2012 and 2014. it was kansas' first conviction of a noncitizen voter fraud since giving authority to its secretary of state to prosecute the crime. joining us now with more from topeka, the secretary of state of kansas, kris kobach, who oversaw the prosecution of this case. first conviction of a noncitizen voterh. fraud. how big a problem is this? is it the tip of the iceberg or is it just the tip? >> it is the tip of the iceberg.

these cases are really hard to discover. the cases that get prosecuted are just a tiny percentage of the total size of the problem. take this case for example. the way we discovered this was, he registered to vote back in 2011. we didn't know he was an alien at the time. and then in 2017, he naturalized. at the naturalization ceremony, a nice person from the federal federal county election office said, hey, would you like to register to vote, and he filled out another registration card. they went back to the office, filled out his information, and they say, hey, this guy has been registered for six years and has been voting. we wouldn't have discovered it unless he had registered that second time. and then, of course, we brought. in that same county, we know of 24 other individuals who either registered as aliens or attempted to. but we didn't discover it ingi time before the statute of limitations ran, so we can'tti prosecute them. we're talking about many times

number that we haven't found. >> greg: is this a symbolic prosecution like when we used to go after people for pirating memusic? they find some woman who lifted ten pearl jam songs to give a message to everybody else?>> >> no. it's really not. if we have more cases ofof noncitizens voting where we actually discover it within five years of the crime, then we will prosecute them. and that's the strange thing about this particular crime. there is all sorts of voter fraud we can discover easily. when someone votes in two states, we can compare databases and figure that out.u l you can't look at the voter rolls of your state and say, oh, yeah, that is a noncitizen. there is nothing in the record that says that. we only find out when something unusual happens, like the guy registers a second time after naturalizing. or another example, maybe somebody says on a jury form, i don't want to sit in the jury, i'm a noncitizen. we get a clue that way. it's really hard to get these cases in time to prosecute. >> greg: the election of commissions says there is no epidemic of voter fraud. you disagree. what are you seeing that he

doesn't see?e? >> what i see is, and what we are looking in kansas when we are going after certain forms voter fraud, you can -- the aclu wants us to stop requiring people to provide proof of citizenship which is a reform we introduced in 2013. we had an outside expert coming in to do sampling of our voter rolls. he estimates the total number of noncitizens, aliens on our voter rolls, is in the thousands, maybe as high as 18,000. so it's a big problem, and we only see that very tip of the iceberg. and sometimes we can prosecute. >> greg: the sentence, what do you think of the -- i think he got nonsupervisednk probation and he had to pay a a fine of $5,000. what do you think about that sentencing? >> i think that's appropriate, because when we gain prosecutorial authority,e, i want it to be a heavy fine, not like 200 bucks, but 5,000 bucks so people would think

twice. if you get caught committing voter fraud, a heavy fine. i don't think people need to spend time in jail. but it's got to hit them pretty hard. >> greg: i would hate that, somebody asked you, what are you in for? a guy, like, kidnapping, assault. and you are like, i voted illegally in an local election. like, "stay clear of this guy! he is trouble!" >> it could be tough. >> greg: secretary kobach, thank you very much. reminder, two of bill's books that are on "the new york times" bestseller list. i hate him. "old school: life in the sane lane" is number one, and "killing the rising sun" is number three. you can get either one for free if you sign up to become a bill o'reilly.com premium member. directly ahead, important foreign policy development sending shock waves across the board. how will it all shake out? shak?

>> greg: in the "back of the book" segment tonight, it has been an enormous news week with foreign policies and military affairs dominating the headlines. catherine herridge along with fox news national securityth correspondent jennifer griffin. jennifer, i want to know what you thought was the top story of the week. you bring us two, obviously, the big bomb. also this report, erroneous it might be, about a preemptivet strike against north korea. elaborate on both if you well. >> well, greg, first of all, i can report based on multiple sources here in the pentagon and other government

agencies that that nbc report about a preemptive strike being planned by the u.s. military in the event that they see signs that kim jong-un in north koreaa is planning a nuclear test, that report, that nbc report, is false. and so i would say that is probably one of the most important developments this week in the sense that things are so tense on the korean peninsula that there is a lot of concern here at the pentagon that kim jong-un might misread either some of these news reports or even some of the u.s. military actions in the last week, some of which, really, i am being told that they were not designed to send a message to him. if you are talking about the bomb used in afghanistan, that was a decision by a local commander, and it was not designed to send any strategic message to anyone. >> greg: okay. can they use those bombs outside afghanistan?n? >> they certainly could. u

there are some in the air force arsenal, of course. but it has been deployed to afghanistan for use there. i don't believe it's been deployed elsewhere. >> greg: all right, catherine, your biggest story is our cia director slamming wikileaks like a screen door in a hurricane. why did he speak out so strongly now? >> it's not every day that the cia director drops a hammer on the head of wikileaks, julian assange. and of all of the threats they are facing in the intelligence community right now, cia director mike pompeo says he chose this one because it's part of an emerging threat stream that they are seeing. to be very simplistic and break it down for those at home, you are seeing these relatively small entities like wikileaks, julian assange, the former nsa contractor edward snowden, they are partnering with traditional enemies of the united states, in this case, russia, and they aren able to amplify the damage. and this is part of something the military intelligence calls

the gray zone. this is the battle space between peace and conventional warfare. it's where a lot of guys like russia go to play because they cannot compete with the u.s. in terms of military strength.te they do not have the economic strength. so they play in this gray zonene with information warfare and propaganda to amplify their message and to further damage the united states. >> greg: what do you think this aggressive stance is going to entail?s >> you know, i found it very interesting that he left that threat hanging out there. my belief is not based on independent data, but my belief is there is going to be payback for wikileaks and assange in particular, and it will not come in an obvious way. it probably would come through the very cybertools that hisgh organization says they recently exposed in that vault 7 on the web. >> greg: i have a theory about the trump presidency, that wey get a month of news in one week.

it's like when you go outlet shopping and you comeom home with bags and boxes when you just wanted a shirt from j.crew. every day, you are overloaded with so much stuff.e i thought the biggest story was the easter egg scandal. the media is so upset about this. apparently the egg manufacturer has a deadline to get these eggo and it hasn't been met. i'm thinking to myself, maybe donald trump is trying to get a better deal on wooden eggs.tr >> it would be something if the easter egg guy was a russian intelligence operative who infiltrated the network that effectively. >> greg: that sounds like a case that should be cracked. by a hard-boiled journalist. >> [laughs] we need a break. >> greg: we do need a break. stay with us, catherine, jennifer. when we return, we've got the "no spin" preview of the big stories brewing this week.

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>> greg: continue now with jennifer griffin and catherine herridge. previewing the week ahead in washington. your pick for stories next week concerning our fight against isis. what do have to tell us? >> early next week on tuesday, the first major policy address on the threat facing the homeland from john kelly, and well so much focus has been, m rightly so, on isis, people have forgotten that al qaeda is certainly not down and out. in fact, it was al qaeda intelligence that led to the recent band of electronics larger than your iphone in the cabin of aircraft coming into the united states from specific airports overseas. the other thing i think people have lost sight of is that isis has change the dynamic of the terrorism game, and that is also very true here domestically

because isis has done something al qaeda was never able to do. that is to take suicide bombing and mainstream it. if you look d at iraq and syria now, last year, they had over a thousand suicide attacks, more than any other suicide attacks by any group globally in that calendar year. they have done somethingbl al qaeda has not been able to do. we have seen that play out inth these domestic radicalized attacks here in the u.s. still one i expect that our lives may be harder but safer. not just harder. i'm hoping domestically there are things that will be implemented. >> the view is that if there was going to be a large care mass casualty attack here in the united states, it is more likely to be successfully carried out byl al qaeda not by isis. isis is more likely -- and i'm not minimizing the loss of life, sbut it's more likely to carry out, as we have seen in europe, a car to carry out a attack of mass murder.

>> greg: it is either good news or bad news that isis isn. fading. jennifer, your story concerns the referendum in turkey.rn please explain. >>re i would say all eyes should be on turkey this sunday. this referendum, it has been waiting until president erdogan had this because they didn't want to go ahead with the efforts to retake raqqa because they are going to require the u.s. to give heavy arms to t kurdish fighters, syrian kurdish fighters who they need to take raqqa. so they have been waiting until april 16th to begin making moves towards raqqa and they're going to thatg the turks get that referendum out of the way. all eyes should be on defense secretary mattis. he will be in saudi arabia and qatar, in djibouti, and i believe that will be part of

this effort to build up the coalition, because i think in these next coming weeks and months, you are going to see some very quick moves into that raqqa area in order to take that o-isis. >> greg: thanks, jennifer. when it comes to making predictions in a trump presidency, all bets are off. he is like a street magician. he is always surprising you with something you didn't see coming. in case you get bored, he tweets as well. thank you for the updates, and we'll see you here. all right, before we go, a quick reminder cannot be sure to catch an all-new episode of my show tomorrow night. lou dobbs. and not share our cooking secrets for the perfect easter sunday easter lamb or ham. it is at 10:00 p.m. eastern right here on the fox news channel. i and that is it for us tonight. thanks for watching the special" edition of "de facto." i am greg gutfeld in for the

vacationing bill o'reilly. have a wonderful easter weekend and remember, the spin stops here because we are looking out forto you. >> this is a fox news u all right the north korean regimee appears to be moving to a nuclear test on saturday defying warnings, explicit ones from the trump administration. welcome too tucker carlson tonight. saturday is thehe birthday of te founder of north korea, and an object of religious veneration. it's already saturday morning on the korean peninsula. north korea's military issue stated a warning it would annihilate american troops within minutes if it isil attacked. it's hard to find anyone who really knows what's going on