i'm dana perino in for the vacationing bill o'reilly and remember, the spin stops here because we're looking out for you. ♪ il >> good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight". the questions this evening, are we headed toward war?me not another intervention in the middle east, but a big war. nuclear weapons on both sides and tens of millions of lives at stake. despite a failed missile testar over the weekend, north korea is not cracking under international pressure. ambassador to unit warns that quote, "nuclear war may break out at any minute." they overstay quite a n bit. still strong words. both president trump and vice president pence spoke today about all of this, saying the administration a plans to adopt new posture towards that country, one is more assertive and taken by any previous demonstration. here's what they said. >> we'll see what happens. i hope things work out well.tr

i hope there's going to beai peace. they've been talking with the gentleman for a long time. you read clinton's book, he said we made such a great peace deal, and it was a joke.ad you look at different things over the years with president obama, everybody he's been outplayed. t they've all been outplayed by this gentleman and we'll see what happens. i just don't telegraph my motives. >> a quarter century ago, we first learned of the presences.f nuclear weapons on the korean peninsula. in the possession of north korea. there is an agreed framework. it was a period of strategic patience.an but the era of strategic patience is over. >> tucker: so what does this all mean and more to the point, where exactly is it going? the director of defense studies joins us tonight in the studio. harry, this looks like something very ominous to me. how seriously should we take it? >> this is extremely ominous and i want to set the scene a little

bit. i think we need to know what we're talking about. just a few days ago, we had a missile test out of north koreag obviously very troubling, very concerning. but imagine what could happen if one of those missiles actually landed in seoul? let's say for example, a missile tests and it crash landed in the wrong place. if that landed in a popular >> tucker: accidentally. >> i can tell you ifun that land in a populated area and killed people in japan or south korea, either one of those countries would respond. in response, the north koreans are torn to do something. we are to keep in mind the amount of armaments the north koreans have. they have 1.1 million men underu arms, 7.7 million in reserve. they have not just nuclearav weapons but chemical weapons, biological weapons, over 1,000 missiles. this is a very dangerous situation. this is a slow walking cuban missile crisis. >> tucker: what was so striking about that was their promise for the last 24 hours to continue with nuclear and missile tests. should we take that promise seriously and if so what does that mean? >> they're going to keep testing missiles.

in order to build missiles that are capable, something that could hit the united states. it takes a lot of tests. they have to test the tracking system, telemetry, the heat shield when it goes into the ignition field, that takes a lot of time, takes a lot of resources. also we have to keep in mind, to build nuclear weapons, you havee to keep testing them.t think about the united states and russia, how many times we'v tested weapons over the years. it was hundreds of times. i don't think the north koreans are going to need to do that, but they are going to need to keep testing as tensions are going to keep rising. >> tucker: my understanding of american foreign policies is we're not going to stand up for that. what does that mean? how do we respond? >> there's two things that we can do. the president has sort of laid out a message saying that the era of strategic patience is over. i think it's important to sort of set a line to say we are not going to take it if you launch an attack on south korea and japan.

there's only two things we can do here. the first thing we need to do is we need to contain the nuclear missile programs from growing anymore. how do you do that? you apply secondary sanctions, a sanction so no one can basically assist them because if they assist them, they need to be made an international pariah and they need to be outed. the second thing we need to do, and this is a little controversial, but presidentnt trump being a pragmatist, i think we can do this. we have to talk to the north koreans.ut i know that's a vile -- they're a terrible regime, they have over 200 people in prison camps, they have one prison camp thateg actually is three times bigger than washington, d.c. but we are in a tough spot heret and to mitigate a crisis is to have some sort of channel with them. i think that's what we need to do. >> tucker: you think that's possible?ne if the united states government announced we're talking with north korea, there would be an immediate uproar, legitimizingof the stalinist regime. >> this is how you have to do it. the trump administration wouldit be wise not to announce that on

twitter or something like that, but i think you can go through backchannel, they could actually help us with this in a veryy pragmatic way. different european back channels you can go to and go to the regime and say look, let's have an open ended dialogue. there is no vietcong ploy, nothing specific in the agenda, let's build trust, let's try to talk this through. >> tucker: a couple of questions. how quick could this spin out of control? >> very quickly. in all honesty, you have this s heavily armed militarized zone with hundreds of thousands of troops, let's just say a north korean soldier gets nervous and fires off a bullet. imagine a south korean sentry fires off another bullet. the north koreans fire off artillery. that's how fast it could all unravel very quickly. if the north korean governmentnt feels cornered, china apparently concerning pressure on the government, obviously the u.s. government doing the same thing. how does it respond? do we have any sense how they'll respond there under a threat? >> if we think about kim jong-un, we know human nature.

it's he wants to survive. he knows his regime is hated throughout the world, they're a violent and nasty regime. s that's why they have nuclear weapons and that's why they have all those weapons of mass destruction i was talking about they have an ultimate asymmetric weapon to deter the united states. that's why they have those weapons to hold everybody backk at bay. and i think it's very dangerous to put kim jong-un in the corner because the danger here is miscalculation. that's what we have to avoid more than anything else. >> tucker: is all this finally an argument for keeping american troops in the korean peninsula where they've been since 1950 or for pulling them back to get them out of harm's way? >> i think you have to keep u.s. troops there as basically a deterrent to kim jong-un to know that we are involved, we're present. i think trump did the right j thing in moving an aircraft battle right off the coast. i think the talk has been very tough, but i think it's been prudent. now that we've established these

norms, i think it's time to talk to them and see what might be able to be accomplished. >> tucker: it's a terrifying moment and not getting the attention it deserves. thank you for doing this. not a day has passed in the last five months the democrats in washington haven't reminded the rest of us that donald trump is colluding with vladimir putin. the two are best friends we've been told, business partners, co-conspirators who together have undermined our democracy and threatened the national security of the united states. it's the democrats who have alleged all this, but a number of republican senators as well at home. what nobody seems to have done is to listen carefully to what w the russians are saying about trump. so here's some for example. this is putin's hand-picked mouthpiece, his state news anchor on his broadcast. "the world is a hair's breadth away from nuclear war," he said. "it can break between two personalities, donald trump and kim jong-un. both are dangerous but who is more dangerous? trump is." end quote. trump is a greater threat to the

world, then north korea. not something best friends say about each other very often. could it be time for washington to admit that their cherished russian theories, the basis of so many overheated press releases and congressional hearings and cable news shows to be wrong? in fact, completely disproved by reality? don't hold your breath for thatt admission though. by tomorrow, explaining how this is just more evidence of the vastness of the conspiracy. of course we'll cover that. with the u.s. on the brink of war in both korea and syria, it's worth asking what would happen if that actually happened, if war broke out? baltimore lawyer and a visitinga scholar from cambridge, wrote a book called "17 rules for foreign intervention." actually more than 17 rules, but they're all smart. he joins us tonight.rv thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> tucker: i just want to go through a couple of these and have you illuminate us a bit. never propagate civil wars, thet

revenge killings last 400 years. is that always true? >> i think it's nearly always true. i think we're seeing that inne iraq, overseas and syria, we should know something about this from the history of our own country when one recalls during construction and afterwards. h we're still paying the price for the civil war. >> tucker: through this piece ou our facebook and i want our viewers to read this, runs a red basically warning against hubris and you're making the point that there's only so much we can know about another country and you a quote george kennedy when you say the worst of rulers knows things about his country thatou foreigners do not. do you think we keep that in mind enough? >> i think we obviously don't. saddam hussein was well aware that he had the confidence of population.

assad has the confidence of religious minorities in his country which have sustained him in power. qaddafi in libya and knew this was a country that really had no government but it was the basis of being totally tribal. we went into all three countries as though we were doing battle with a unitary state, which we obviously were not. one feature of theseou totalitarian regimes that people tend to lose sight of his how brittle they are. and that's probably even true of the north korean regime. when these regimes collapse as we saw in eastern europe will, they go down with a big bang, and there's nothing left.ur there are dangers and that also. >> tucker: they just haul them

out behind the court and execute them and then poof, it's over. you had a line in here, wars cannot be won on the cheap ngwithout infantry. that was a really distressing thing to read. i hope it's not true, but you think it is. >> i think it is. the history even in the second world war was that you had in the norma's destruction from strategic bombing in germany and japan. you had in korea, norma's destruction and bombing. you had in vietnam,en norma's destruction from bombing. then make a whole lot of difference to make some difference. in terms of the war, it didn't. >> tucker: took a lot more. and finally, the result of all those complex you mentioned were massive waves of refugees moving to the west. it is not always an issue of war

for refugees? >> i think that's probably a generalization that is true. the korean war, we have millions of koreans in the united states that was the result of the dislocation of the war, the same is true of vietnam. the results of our interventions into syria and iraq have been a refugee close that which have destabilized europe and the results of our adventures inin central america have been refugee flows that have had a rather bad effect on there southwest and on american cities. and has really given rise more than anything else the concern about immigration when you have these drug gangs in largein cities. >> tucker: you're right. redoing a segment on that coming

up in fact part is nice to talk who reads history of once in a while. there's not many here in washington. thank you for joining us here and for that. >> thank you. >> tucker: coming up next, two people have booted the american flag from their meeting because it offends some people. what are they thinking exactly? we'll talk to a reporter has been covering that story to get inside into their mindset if yor can call it that. also police still hunting for the man who murdered someone live on facebook. we'll give you the update of what has become a nationwide manhunt. we'll bring you the status just ahead.as ahead. hey, ready for the big meeting? yeah. uh, hello!? a meeting? it's a big one. too bad. we are double booked: diarrhea and abdominal pain. why don't you start without me? oh. yeah. if you're living with frequent, unpredictable diarrhea and abdominal pain, you may have... ...irritable bowel syndrome with diarrhea,

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>> tucker: this is a fox news alert, steve stephens stays at large tonight more than a day after he allegedly gunned down an elderly man and posted arg facebook video of his crime in. we go to mike tobin his been covering the story in chicago. >> obviously armed and proved that he was dangerous, the reward for steve stephens is now up to $50,000 and although the search is concentrated around ohio, the police chief in cleveland said he's had 24 hourt to get away. that means a searchh is nationwide. 24 hours since he posted that video facebook that showed him selecting a stranger down the street and getting him down in cold blood. steve left in a 2016 ford fusion. they've seen nothing like an abandoned vehicle or one that a was stolen to indicate that he is driving anything different. he blames his ex-girlfriend. reports say she is now in protective custody. police are pleading with stephens to turn himself inpr without further bloodshed.

>> steve, if you're out there listening, call someone whether it's a friend or family member or pastor. give them a call because they're waiting on you to call them. >> he's a pretty big guy, 6'1", 244 pounds. stated on facebook that his ex-girlfriend drove him to gamble and according to them, he'd been evicted from an apartment, sued at another, declared bankruptcy in 2015. as a victim, 74-year-old robert godwin senior was out collecting cans after easter dinner. his family relates these photos to our fox affiliate say this is how they wanted him or membered, not the final terrified and bewildered moments before a stranger gunned him down. facebook issued a statement thae it is to do a better job reviewing violent and otherwise objectionable material. tucker? >> tucker: what a horrible story. we still aren't sure of what our opinion should be on this horrifying cleveland attack, for a night because cnn has that covered.

according to a man identified as a cnn legal analysis, the real problem here is that we haven't yet made it illegal to post a homicide video to facebook and this killer had only known that his facebook broadcast had violated the law, a life may have been saved. it won't prevent these attacks, but will deter them. because of there's one thing homicidal maniacs living in pharaohs is being busted for legal broadcasting. the fcc could get involved.da that's exactly the reasoningng behind gun control. just ban them. criminals won't have them. up next, public suspicion of immigration is higher than previous years. president trump was elected inen promises to start rollbacks of new arrivals. it's simply a matter of ignorance. stay tuned. rance. stay tuned. ♪ ♪ after becoming one of the largest broadband

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>> tucker: strikingly a few news outlets in the country have covered it, but the invasion of europe intensified last week. more than 7,000 african migrants arrive to italy. they came by boat rescued from stormy matter training seized by the italian coast guard and international aid organizations. it would not return to libya where they departed from the drop and set on italian soil where many of them will remain some for generations has beneficiaries of european welfare states. amazing the same groups abetting all this have accused the european union of endangering

lives by not more actively picking up more migrants from the sea and importing them into geurope. much like how you are to blame for endangering a burglar by locking your front door. last year more than 350,000 migrants arrived in europe from the third world and mini no doubt were good people in their desperation of course is easy to understand given where they came from. that is not also the fact that they arrived without invitation illegally and at public expense that they will forever and profoundly change the demographics of the continent in ways that pretty much no one was born there ever asked or wanted but no one is allowed to complain about her fear being attacked as immoral. it's a huge deal, but hardly anyone ever mentions it. does that sound familiar to you as an american? it ought to. a professor at george mason school, recently wrote a piece lamenting what he called ignorance about immigration. most people learn the facts about immigration he says, it will become substantially more in favor of it. he himself supports open borders pretty much.

join us tonight. thanks for coming on. thank you very much for having me. >> tucker: a lot of people support it to a greater extent than i do. my complaint with your piece was the word ignorance.om you ascribed it to people who disagree with you and your point was you just don't know enoughgn if you disagree and i didn'teo strike me as fair. >> that's not true of everyone but it's true of many people that if you look at survey datan votes here in europe, a lot ofru opposition to immigration is ignorance about things like the numbers of immigrants, whether or not they go on welfare and whether they increase the crime rate or lower it. >> tucker: not to turn this around on you, i think your views are not fully informed. i wouldn't use the word ignorance necessarily, but you say this. in february 2014 you wrote, "it's unlikely to increase thesa size of the welfare state", when there's a great deal of evidence. that's silly. immigrants to this country take welfare at a higher rate than american citizens and states t with massive numbers of

immigrants have much higher welfare rates than others. california being the most obvious example. so it's not an informed statement. >> it is, because when you look at studies by economists across the political spectrum, you find that states controlling for other variables have more immigrants, do not have larger welfare states. yes, california is a large welfare state. texas has a large percentage of immigrants, has smaller welfare state than most other states. >> tucker: the way studies are conducted, which in think is dishonest, where they compare immigrant welfare recipients only to poor americans and say immigrants are less likely to receive welfare, but overall, they're more likely. california has 12% of thee nation's population but has 33% of federal welfare recipients. that's because of immigration. what's the other cause? >> even if you compare per capita welfare spending overall in states with more immigrants compared to the west, those who have more do not have more welfare spending, also various economic studies as well.

even if you don't compare it to just two, americans have the same income class or whatnot ift this compares states to a lot of immigrants in the west.. >> tucker: part of the reason this is a silly debate is because it depends on all immigrants being the same. and some immigrants from certain countries have very low welfare rates and others have overwhelming, 75% welfare rates. so we're sort of pretending that they're all the same, but of course they're not. you're also saying immigrants' political views when you get right down to it are a lot closer to those of people bornre here, and yet the statisticss show they're overwhelmingly not. 55% of hispanic immigrants vote democrat. that's not the same as people who live here. they change the political balance of the state. >> what i said is that when you look at immigrants' views on particular issues, things like size of a government, social issues and the like, the gap is much smaller within the natives than many people assume. and it gets into the second or third generations with hispanic immigrants, statistics often

overestimate the difference because many second and third generation descendants of those immigrants don't even call themselves hispanic in surveys, and those who don't call themselves hispanic on average have political views closer. >> tucker: this is something that i cover, politics, and i think what you're engagings in, with respect, is bad social science because the truth is it doesn't matter whether someone on the supreme court or someone may have a slightly more conservative or liberal position on an issue or two or five. what matters is who they vote for. so in california for example, the state voted to ban gay marriage heavily with hispanic support. but the state to be conservative in that issue, it's overwhelmingly a one-party state because of latin american immigration. so it actually doesn't have any effect in other words. it's just a boon to the democrats, period. and that's an immigration law. >> people issue -- more than what party they vote for because

if they want to win, they have to adjust their issue positions to where the electorate is. it is true in california, hispanics have helped the democratic party, but one area of course where immigrants do differ from natives is immigrants are much more likely to be anti-immigrant. the california party -- republican party in california became much more anti-immigrant than it was before. immigrants adjust accordingly.uc >> tucker: totally silly. the idea that pete wilson, because he backed a measure banning illegal immigrants froma getting welfare somehow turned every hispanic immigrant in california to the democratic party is just absolutely false. that state has no functioning republican party, and it's all because of immigration. if people who live there in 1975 were the only people voting, itt would be a republican state. why don't we just admit that? >> texas had just a big a increase as california, yet texas didn't show anything like the same behavior. yet the texas republican party

adopted a very different approach to immigrants than the california one. >> tucker: that's just wrong. i don't know anybody who thinks that texas will be a republican state in ten years. and that will be wrong, but the people that watch this in the state believe what the average person believes because it's obviously true, which is massive democratic changes. why not just concede that? that's not ignorance to say that. >> who knows what will happen in ten years, but over the last 20 years, patterns in texas have been very different than in california, in considerable part because the republican party has taken a different approach. i don't claim the demographci changes never impact politics. all i claim is that it's much less than people think. >> tucker: why is it that the immigrant heavy areas of new york state are overwhelmingly democratic but the ones of nativeborn new yorkers are not? it's not just california. it's everywhere. maybe that will change in 100 years. here's my point, and i'm not saying immigrants are bad.

i like immigrants. i'm really saying the idea that people who live here and are born here have no right to have a say in this or to be offended by the changes brought by immigration is just silly, or they're dumb because they don't like it, which is what you're arguing. >> i don't claim people have no right to feel what they do, much is influenced by ignorance by a variety of topics. it results about a lot of publid policy issues. it's not unique to immigration to have political ignorance, it happens a lot. it's not because people are bad. it's because people quite understandably don't spend a lot of their time paying attention to details of policy issues so b it's easy for them not to know very much. >> tucker: what if they notice that the communities they live in are completely different, and the economies they work in are completely different? the assumptions of the neighbors are not ones they grew up with? is it ignorance not to like it? >> survey data shows that people who live with a lot of immigrants tend to be much more pro-immigration than those who live in areas with very few. that's one of the strongest results we have in this area t survey data. >> tucker: you're ignoring my

point, which is don't people have enough data, as you put it, from living in this country toha know that it's changed and this is part of it? they're not necessarily ignorant. why call them names? why not acknowledge their views as legitimate? >> people can have views that are legitimate and still heavily influenced by ignorance.eg the two are not mutually exclusive. v if you're talking about people's personal experiences as a form of knowledge, those with the most personal experience with immigrants actually tend to be the most pro-immigration. >> tucker: why is there such a large percentage of the population who doesn't learn the esoteric knowledge that you have, that have somehow internalized? >> they're busy with other things. they're spending time with their jobs, their families. >> tucker: there's endless pro-immigration propaganda. the whole diversity thing is making sure no one complains about the changes taking place in the country. talking about birth practically in this country, this is great. they're constantly bombarded with the message, and why? >> there's endless propaganda on many political issues from all sides.

most people spend their timen focusing on other things. it's totally understandable that they do. there's a lot of other things te watch on tv that are more interesting than political propaganda. >> tucker:[laughs] it's not just political propaganda. there's no part of the american life that's not screaming at you this is great. better like it or else you're an immoral person, and yet a large percentage are resisting. >> fox news is part of american life, and they're not screaming that, and donald trump is and so forth. so there's a lot of people screaming on all sides but quite understandably, most of the public tunes that out and focuses on other things. when they do focus on the propaganda, they may become very superficial things as opposed to more in-depth facts. >> tucker: that sounds like the explanation for everything. why don't we like obamacare? you just don't know enough. you're just not smart enough. >> in each of these cases, we actually have data. actually makes people more opposed to it.ey >> tucker: it makes me opposed to it. thanks for joining us. students at uc davis in

california have voted to evict the american flag from their student senate meetings. what are they thinking? we'll talk to a reporter who's been following that. plus as ms-13 menaces the country, we'll learn more about the gangs from the man who spent years trying to contain them. why are they here in the first place? stay tuned for that. place? place? station for when you have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, the unpredictability of a flare may weigh on your mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go, and how to work around your uc. that's how i thought it had to be. but then i talked to my doctor about humira, and learned humira can help get and keep uc under control... when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions,

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>> tucker: millions of americans have fought in countless battles and died under the american flag, going to serve the institutions of the nation it represents. to the student senate at the university of california at davis, the flag is actually an offensive scrap of cloth that terrifies them. it has voted to stop requiring the flag at their meetings. we invited two uc students, they agreed it would be an interesting segment but in a strong show of something, theyou backed out at the last minute and stopped returning our phone calls. so instead we decided to upgrade. i we're joined by tammy bruce, who's been covering the story.al

great to see you tonight. >> i'm not afraid to be on your show.en >> tucker: you're never afraid.r that's what i admire about you. i wish i didn't have to concede this, an isolated story.y. you're seeing all kinds of attacks on the american flag as a symbol equating it with racism, oppression. so clearly, something big is going on here. what is it? >> this is a subject of my column on wednesday in "the washington times," which i was also working on today, becausebe there are now so many strange issues. it's not just about being snowflakes and wanting safe spaces, it has now turned into violence like we saw at berkeley. the effort to shut down speakers like heather macdonald, talking about blue lives matter. it's a situation which is fascinating and that if you actually have to opt in and have to argue to have the american flag present at student senate meetings. and their argument is that everyone's view of what the united states is is different. and here's i think with the problem is, we've got a dynamic now, we've got young people who are going to college, who are effectively not having to pay

for it, who view america as an oppressor state. this is a statement that they view obviously america as the problem. they don't want to be associated with it, and i can guarantee you that these are individuals who also have federal loans, federai student loans, were probably on state grants and perhaps even on alumni grants as well. if the nation is so offensive to them, which they argue effectively it is, then perhaps they shouldn't enjoy federal loans paid for with american tax dollars. so we're looking, i think, at a group, a generation if you will, at the stage now, certainly thet millennials, that have either not had american history, have had teachers who have indoctrinated them into this dynamic, liberal leftistst teachers, or individuals who in this instance, the person that's at uc davis, a public school is also a naturalized citizen. and so they've come here not to necessarily be a part of america but to punish it. and i think we're in trouble if

this is the next generation ifif it is. in charge of business and sociaw culture. >> tucker: if the people who wind up running your country hate that country, that's a suicide. the question is, why are we surprised? if you allow generations of kids to grow up in an education system that teaches them the country they live in is immoral, fatally flawed from the start, it's disgusting and not worth defending and that the ideals ii was founded upon are repulsive, that's what you get, isn't it? >> it is, and yet americans tend to not raise children like that. this is what's fascinating is that is either a choice of individuals going to public school where this kind of mob mentality prevails versus private school. in another instance, clemson has paid 38,000 taxpayer dollars for a diversity course that explains that if you expect people to show up on time, it's racist. it's remarkable. i think that means there's going to be fewer liberals on television and radio because that's a time certainec environment. you've got people who thene, expect to go get jobs. they're going to hire the person from university who has not been

involved in this nonsense, knowb how to show up on time, what are these young people going to do when they show up in a world that actually has expectations of them? they are being abandoned, we're losing an entire generation.pe business and economics,ho which requires love of the country and a future and we certainly have lost that. and of course, this situation here is a very good example. trying to eliminate the imagery of a nation that is based on an idea, which is why the flag in and of itself is so important. >> tucker: i used to worry that higher education was failing to educate kids, now it seems like they're making them actively stupid and dangerous to the country. i don't know why we're participating in all this. thanks a lot. that was better than any segment we would've done. up next, the weather outside is lovely. why not take a stroll in the park? here's a reason.

some feminists say outdoor excursions are a show of white privilege. of course they are.ay question is, is that the day's weirdest story? our panel next. story? our panel next. y y pause a spontaneous moment? cialis for daily use treats ed and the urinary symptoms of bph. tell your doctor about your medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis. various: (shouting) heigh! ho! ( ♪ ) it's off to work we go! woman: on the gulf coast, new exxonmobil projects are expected to create over 45,000 jobs.

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>> tucker: there are just a lot of the loony news stories floating around, so our segment, top that, is starting right now where we bring panelists in to pick the weirdest, most bizarre news story of the day. kristin solstis anderson is a pollster and a commentator -- they join us tonight. kristin, you first.

>> there should be one piece of information you should beom able to get from your government, who won an election. that should be easy. but if you ever want a strange trip through the government and competence, try to collect all this information about who won elections, who and what precinct. a nonpartisan group, the open election, tried to do it. they went to the city of detroit to get some information, and the city of detroit sent back this spreadsheet full of clipart. not actual numbers about where you can get this information. clipart. >> tucker: looks like an eye chart.>> >> of the numbers, completely ludicrous. someone put a lot of time and effort into it. it's not government laziness but it is incompetence at its best. >> tucker: buy toilet paper. that's unbelievable. i'm having trouble believing that's actually true. but we'll get back to that in just a moment. >> i think i can one up that just a little bit.en apparently if you are a woman oi person of color or a minority,y, you can't go outside and enjoy the freedom that is outside, the

great outdoors, because apparently you are prohibitedsi from doing that because you may not have access to money to buy camping equipment or maybe you are overweight and can't buy fitness apparel. it blows my mind. apparently this whole going outdoors thing is only for single straight white men. i was unaware.ou >> tucker: going to a national park is full of white privilege. >> even though it's free. apparently you have to pay money to buy the equipment whichve you would wear. the athleisure outfits are typically made for slimmer people, not larger people, so it's very discriminatory. if you're buying any type of camping equipment to go and enjoy nature's miracle, at that point you are having to spend money and it's very prohibitive for people who can't afford it. >> tucker: that's from some feministso online. >> yes. >> tucker: this is a tough one, but i'm just marveling at the

fact that the city of detroit is sending clipart in response to requests for voter information. not that there's ever any mystery about who wins detroit. >> you ever make a birthday card for your grandkids and want to make a really snazzy looking powerpoint straight out of 1990, clipart your heart out. >> tucker: you've got a participation trophy. >> thank you tucker. i appreciate it. >> tucker: coming up next, ms-13 have thousands of members who have murdered dozens, maybe hundreds of americans. u we know perilously little about the group.ha we'll look at the facts from a former official who's spent years battling them in new york. that's next. in new york. that's next.

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do we really know about them?as the former executive of suffolk county, new york who has spent years grappling with the growing ms-13 presence, and he joins us now. thanks for coming on. so the obvious question is where does this group come from? it appears related to our immigration policies. is that right? >> they surfaced from el salvador. they've been around for a long time. but they've been growing by leaps and bounds, and a lot of people associate that growth with president obama's decision to allow for these hundreds of thousands of unaccompanied minors to flood the border,oo 2013-2014. it's not 5-year-olds or 6-year-olds we're concerned about here, but 15, 16, 17-year-olds to come here without parents.s. ms-13 becomes their family, their protectors, and we're seeing a major growth in these gangs, and they're as vicious as can be, and we have to stop the political correctness. go after these guys and get theo deported. >> tucker: what did we think was

going to happen? who thought that was a good idea? it seems so obviously not a good idea. >> exactly. w it's all about identity politics here. there was a coalition that developed from the obama administration and on the left. i'm formerly a democrat, but had left the party in large part because of the extreme shift of the party on this illegal immigration matter. it's all about building your base of college students, single women, and minorities, and the pandering got out of control and has now become an open borders party and we are seeing the results of this. >> tucker: i think that's exactly right. so ms-13, is this primarily a business enterprise? >> it's organized crime. that's the way i look at it. the feds did a great job in tackling other organized crime elements. it's time that we treat ms-13 and other gangs just as we did organized crime. that means creating gang registries. if you have a guy who's been

convicted, why should he be allowed to hang out with other gang members? if you're an organized crimeho member convicted, you can hang out with other organized crime members. we should follow that same policy as it applies to ms-13 members. >> tucker: so you've got a problem out in suffolk county, and we've got a map we're going to put up on the screen, from ice. it shows the spread of this group from miami to san francisco to boston, newark. county would not expect to see this group, where did it start and where did the spread happened and why did the rest of us know this? >> they've been around for years and years, but they displaced the latin kings, the bloods, and other such groups in the last several years. in large part, many believe because of the influx of undocumented minors. we've seen anywhere from 2,000 to 3500 of these undocumented, un-chaperoned minors on long island alone in the last several years. we warned it..

if we don't have major ramifications on our schools,av hospitals, our infrastructures and our safety and now we've seen a dozen young people murdered over the last year and just to communities alone, brentwood and central on long island. it's not the political correctness has to stop. we have to go after these guys and get them out of this country. >> tucker: how involved are they in drug trafficking? is that the primary way that the gang finances itself? >> it's primarily drug trafficking, but it's all about control. you talk to the superintendents and the principles of the schools, how they are intimidated kids, 13, 14, 15-year-olds in school that they have to go out and commit a crime or they will be butchered, though threatened their families, it's the same type of horrible modus operandi you see of el chapo carryout. it's down here in the states,

and are suburbs, here in long island and throughout the country. >> tucker: i'm becoming convinced of that and i'm so stressed by the lack of news about this group or the lack of outcry from americans this is happening. >> its political correctness. just like you said, they're the biggest threat than isis are to us. if you're going to defeat the problem, you first have to admit what it is. same thing with the islamic'r terrorism. if you don't say with the problem is, you can't defeat it. here, there's a bigig white elephant in the middle of the room. nobody wants to talk about. it's the growth of these gangs and how lax immigration policies. >> tucker: that's right. what an eye-opening segment. thanks for joining us tonight. great to see you. last minute bid for us tonight, you can tune in every night at nine.ca the sworn enemy of lying from smugness try to participate in. set your dvr for it if you haven't. "hannity" is up next. have a terrific night and will you tomorrow. ♪

>> sean: welcome to "hannity" and this is a fox news alert. our opening monologue is coming up the next segment. tonight, a senior north korean official is warming that thermonuclear work may be breaking out with the united states at any moment. this comes as the trump administration hardens its position against the rogue regime. in just a few minutes, newt gingrich and lou dobbs will join us. here was a preview of her exclusive interview with the president where she asks him about north korea. but first over the weekend, the north korean military parading through the streets of the country's capital in honor of the birthday of the founder of this rogue nation and they unsuccessfully attempted to launch yet another missile. the very latest from pyongyang is greg palkot. >> tensions grow over the band nuclear missile program of this country.er vice president pence sou