media. i know this camera, this show, my radio show, is only because of you. i will never forget it. also, it's time we stop liberal fascism. we will see you back here tomorrow night. as always, thank you for being with us. >> tucker: good evening, for those of you tuning in thinking you'll see someone different. i watched bill o'reilly for years, and i marveled how well prepared he was and how he crisply he expressed his views.r what o'reilly did was not easy. he set a high bar and i'll do my best to meet it. thanks for sticking with us.as >> tucker: and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." in a little while, mike rowe will be here to discuss the president's jobs plan for america. buyy american. did you know caitlyn jenner voted for donald trump. indeed, that's true. we'll ask jenner about that decision which, in malibu,

is very brave.we first, we're almost at the 100 day mark, democrats claiming the election was hacked. it didn't seem to have much effect on trump. a new poll by abc news and the "washington post" finds that if the election were held again today, president trump would beat hillary clinton again, but this time, by three points. that would be reversing theti popular vote defeat in december. the press tried to ignore it, but is it time for the democrats to approach a different approach. richard goodstein has thought about this. he is a democrat democratic strategist. richard, great to see you. >> my hat is off to you for this new time slot and well deserved. >> tucker: thank you. best.o my all the attention has been on poll numbers being low by historical standards, and they are. what has been missed,

is that they are higher than hillary clinton's. he has improved relative to hillary clinton since the election five months ago. what could possibly account for that? >> again, the fact of the matter is this poll is a disaster. his record high disapproval, record low for honesty, record low for a sense of whether he accomplished anything, and the public rightfully puts the blame on trump, 47% to democrats, 7%. so look, the fact of the matter is, as you know -- >> tucker: hold on. i started by saying that his numbers are lower than previous presidents but still higher than hillary's. that's a two party system. this doesn't happen in a vacuum. you get two choices. people are choosing the republicans. this is after five months of warfare, and it is not working.th is it time to re-think what you're doing.an >> hillary clinton will not run for president again. i don't think that's a spoiler alert. but the democrats who are

running, in georgia and kansas, they've flipped defeats and house races last november by 207 in kansas, and maybe even win in georgia. >> tucker: can i say, but neither of them have won. >> one of them -- >> tucker: i didn't want to go there, but the democratic lost in kansas. we're giving participation trophies? >> if you look in the ruby red states, and you went from being down 30 to down 7, that showses progress. especially in an off year election, where democrats don't turn out in big numbers typically. >> tucker: given the president'e poll numbers, you expect a series of victories, and haven't seen them. the core question, is the strategy of defining trump as a puppet of the kremlin and his voters as racist, is that bearing fruit for you? is that working out for you? >> i think it's working out.

first of all, put the racist stuff aside. >> tucker: that's hard do that, since your candidate called them racist. >> we'll find out when the russian investigation is over, whether or not he engaged in behavior or it was just his campaign staff. because what the fbi director has said is that's what is under investigation. >> tucker: you're still going with that treasonous behavior? >> we know that. >> tucker: i didn't want to go there. i like you and i didn't think you really believed that. it's hard to tell whether it's a talking point or a symptom -- >> oh, no. >> tucker: here, you have a president who has moved thesi united states into real conflict with russia by bombing syria, and the russians themselves are saying we've never been closer to war in the past 20 years. that's what collusion lookssa like?eese >> i will say that the fact that we are -- we could talk aboutay the risk of nuclear war, whether it is russia or korea is a huge demerit. >> tucker: you're arguing he is a pawn of the kremlin and bad for being too mean. >> i'm saying the russians

didn't know what they were bargaining for at the time.. what they were bargaining for is the podesta e-mails dropped an hour after the "access hollywood" tapes. the russians are smart. they're not that smart. they were colluding with people who knew enough to say now is the time. >> tucker: i'm having a hard time following this. i'm not going to keep torturing you. you're basically arguing that trump is an agent of russia, but slow down, but now he is a double agent, working against russia. i don't watch msnbc. i is that what you're arguing? >> i'm saying at the time, when he was saying all these smoochy things about putin, they thought they were going to get someone in their corner. what that god is someone who is rather unpredictable, scaring other world leaders to death whether they are typically on our side or not. >> tucker: your theory is silly. that's only fair. he can't be both a pawn of russia and an opponent of russia. let me ask, to be totally

honest. the democratic party represented the middle of the country for generations, working people.t' longer does, hostile, openly hostile and that's not working. you are losing elections you should win.in is anybody in the party looking at that saying we have to fix this? who are these people fixing about it? >> tucker: donald trump has not expanded his base one iota since getting 46% of the vote. it was barely enough in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania. are you going to predicate a reelection strategy again that a you're going to have -- >> tucker: you're missing it. no matter how weak the president may be, no matter how weak he was as a candidate, you could argue he made some real missteps. he still won the presidency. now you can try to pretend it isn't real, but it is realte constitutionally. >> absolutely. >> tucker: so you can still, you can be a weak candidate and win, if you're running against

someone weaker, and so i'm justa looking for some glimmer that democratic talking points aren't aimed at tom stier. it's not just donors, but voter voters. what is the pitch to voters? >> the evidence that voters are actually responding to whatever the democratic message is was v the women's march the day after the inauguration, even this march this past weekend, around the country, right, the facte that these town hall meetings, people are showing energy. >> tucker: what was the point of the women's march? i'm not attacking it. but if you could narrow it down to one policy point, the march on washington was for the civil rights bill, i get it. the women's march, not attacking it but a little confused about how it articulates the democratic vision. >> donald trump demeaned women. putting access hollywood aside. this was an affirmation saying we're not going away. you have to deal with us. you may not believe that, but that's what it is about. >> tucker: you can deal with this fact. donald trump won the majority of white women.s are they stupid?

are they crazy, are they bigots? how do you account for that behavior. >> the comey letter -- it tipped the scale. >> tucker: - i thought it was the russians. is he is working for the russians? >> he ultimately was in sync with them. i don't think he was working with them. >> tucker: in sync with them?ke >> no, no, no, the russians did what they did, wikileaks, which trump, you know, the other day, when he said maybe they should be investigated, and now, thep, comey letter, absolutely -- >> tucker: were they working inr concert? >> no, no, no. in parallel. the comey letter unquestionably is what killed it. >> tucker: at some point, actual voters had to cast actual votes. white women voted against hillary clinton. my question is why. until you know why, you can't progress. is it because they're bad people?t

it seems to be the democratic message. we don't want you if you voted for trump. you are morally impaired. >> i think the fact of the matter is, hillary clinton campaign and hillary herself didn't put a good message, and whether it was e-mails or everything else, the incoming they didn't deal with it, the 53% of white women said we're not happy about either, we're going take a chance on trump. >> tucker: this is the last question, and it is sincere. i think the democratic party needs to win people it didn't win, obviously. a lot of them are in the middle of the country, more traditional, maybe liberal in economics, but not super liberal on the social issues. tom perez just announced today that people who oppose roe v. wade are not welcome in the democratic party. only apparently secular lifestyle liberals are welcome. why would he say that?e >> i can't explain it. the fact of the matter, is you've got people like bob casey who simply don't subscribe to that. i don't think anybody is looking to do anything other than to glorify bob casey for having ---

for being pro-life. >> tucker: they just attacked him. >> being a smart, lifelong democratic. >> tucker: maybe if your whole party is dependent on money from the abortion people, you have to sing their tune. >> even nancy pelosi said the democratic party welcomes people who happen to be pro-life. it is not where she comes out, but she is saying, we want theme >> tucker: no, that's not what she said. she did not say people who disagree with the roe versus wade, which is still controversial for good reason. you can't say i think roe v. wade was wrong and be a democrat. that is what the leadership of your party is saying. >> the fact of the matter, they're not showing bob casey f and others like him the door.th they welcome people likeor that. they do. >> tucker: by attacking him. it is clever.. >> well, be that as it may, they will show support when he runs for reelection. >> tucker: richard, thank you forr coming.

you're a great man. >> thanks for having me. >> tucker: tense and with north korea wereea high. but in the past three days, they got even higher. the kim jong-un detained another american citizen. he was trying to leave the country. president trump is demanding tough new sanctions. one false move by either party could trigger a full-blown nuclear war. the question is, what's next. one man who thought about this is michael malice, an expert ona the secretive regime. thank you for coming in. what is the next move? >> the thing with north korea, it's kind of a cloak and dagger situation. notice when trump struck syria, no one saw it coming. here is all these warnings, the administration is talking, you have the senators being calleded to the white house, he is making a spectacle, so it seems like

this is for public show and heus has something up his sleeve. >> tucker: so everybody in this, in this situation, seems to be relying on the chinese. >> correct. >> tucker: i wonder if t the chinese are really even our allies.ional do they have our best interest at heart? >> they have their own best interests at heart. north korea will always be china's problem. the border between the two is the most militarized border on earth. the river between china and north korea is porous and you have a lot of north korean speakers in manchuria. if you ask me, what i bet they're doing is some kind of good cop-bad cop situation, where trump is acting like i'mf going to go in. and china says this guy is crazy. work with us. l let's go to some kind of soft landing and this will stave off the american attack. >> tucker: so do the north koreans expect a war? >> they have been expecting anng

award since north korea was founded. according to their literature, we've been eyeing korea since the 1860s, they burned pyongyang. according to them, we launched the korean war and we've been biding our time since then to finish the job. according to north korea, south korea isn't a country, it is a region under u.s. occupation, in their literature, they're lower case n and lower case s. >> tucker: so sanctions are the new idea coming from washington, will sanctions have an effect? >> yes, it will, and peopleio won't have food and they will blame us for not allowing food to reach the country. that happened before, that look, we can't feed you, because the u.s. imperialists are keeping the food from reaching your mouths, but and the next thing that happens, first they'll take your food, and then they'll take your lives. that's how they're taught.

>> tucker: do you think you want to say it live on tv, do you think the united states has the capability of disable a northhi korea rocket? >> i think we do have thee capabilities of disabling a rocket. however, those are dangerous dice to roll. seoul has 10 million people south of the border, the visualh of this are absolutely crazy. then the north koreans will be able to display these visuals to their own population. and say look, it's happening. get ready for a state of war and who knows what would happen then. they have practiced for this since they're kids. >> tucker: how fast could this happen? >> there is a quote where he says how did you go bankrupt. gradually and suddenly. this sort of thing happens overnight. how fast did syria happen? i mean, in one sense quick, but in the other sense, it is long overdue. >> tucker: do you think there would be warning? do you think there would be a moment where deescalation is possible, or potentially get out of control. >> according to one theory, the failed rocket launch was a

deescalation, so they could back down without backing down. i don't know if that's true, but they are masters and boast about it in their literature saying we're going to yell at you, but at the same time, give you a back door to stay safe. -- save face. >> tucker: every bit as scary as it looks. michael, thank you for that. >> thanks, tucker. >> tucker: up next, nordstrom's, selling jeans for $425, to look muddy and faded. so you can look rugged without going outside. mike rowe will explain why we're so hostile to breaking a sweat in this country. caitlyn jenner will join us to talk about her new memoir. stay tuned. her new memoire. stay tuned. constipated? trust #1 doctor recommended dulcolax. use dulcolax tablets for gentle dependable relief. suppositories for relief in minutes. and dulcoease for comfortable relief of hard stools. dulcolax. designed for dependable relief.

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>> tucker: president trump ran as a champion of working class americans and got their votes, and now trying to keep their support. as president he signed a two-part buy american, hire american for the u.s. government to purchase american made goods and clamps down on companies that want to replace american workers with imported foreign labor.ow the order is popular, a new poll by abc and the "washington post" found 73% ofof adults support these efforts. mike rowe is the former host of "dirty jobs," and advocate for blue collar jobs. thanks for coming on. >> 7:00, 9:00, 8:00, whatever works for you, man. >> tucker: you were on the first one we ever did, of course. >> i'll be with you at 3:00 in the morning if it comes to it. >> tucker: come to me with boca and we can have an umbrella drink. are you surprised that this is basically the most popular thing the president has done?

>> no, i'm not surprised, but i'm nervous. >> tucker: why? >> two reasons. first of all, i'm not sure i understand it, to be honest. i'm not a lawyer. it is an executive order, and it's full of a lot of fine print. and i -- secondly, and more importantly, it feels like it might be a shortcut, and as my pop used to say, shortcuts lead to long delays. i don't know if it is or isn't. if the executive order makes things more fair, does something to clamp down on currency manipulation and a whole lot of other things that i don't understand, i feel has happened that has disadvantaged our country -- i'm all for it. but if it is one of these things that will ultimately bring about unintended consequences, i get nervous. look, i'm nervous about the minimum wage, because i think when we raise it to hurry up to

get to an end point, it is like that whack a mole game. something else pops up somewhere else. it's like rent control. i want an environment where the companies that are most responsible for hiring are dramatically encouraged by the market to keep theco business here, and if we get ahead ofof ourselves and make it by fiat or a mandate, i think that mole will pop up out of another hole. >> tucker: people will find a way to get around it. they always do. if you could write the executive order, if you could do one thing to bring back american jobs, where would you start?de >> well, i think, again, from a business standpoint,, i would write something that made it crystal clear that my best upside for profit is to stay here. >> tucker: yes. >> i don't know exactly what that would be, but just try to set the table differently than jump ahead and say, look, here is how i want the story to end,f

so let's just write this down and make it end that way. i just don't think we can do that. but look, i mean, i might also suggest that the country take a little more inward look at itself and try to figure out why it is -- look, once upon a time in another life, i had a deal with a blue jean company, you know, and part of what i wanted to do was give the consumer a really clear choice between jeans that were made in americav and jeans that were made overseas. they were identical. these jeans. i mean, i could show you the research if you're into the it, but it was remarkable how the price difference was everything. until those two jeans, the american made and the overseas, the identical same price, it was absolutely no push, no incentive for the consumer to buy american. so it is not just the worker, and it is not just the boss, it is us. >> tucker: that's totally right.

though, people will pay an awful lot for a pair of jeans. nordstrom's is charging $425 for a pair of distressed genes with mod attached. you've written that this is an insult to work or parts of the war on work. what do you mean by that? >> the last time i was on your show, we talked about the monopoly thing, and you saidn look, th wheelbarrow and the iron haveg, been replaced by a rubber ducky and a penguin. you said keep an eye peeled for other examples of this sort of social war on work. this morning, i woke up and on my facebook wall, somebody was like "mike, what do you have to say about this." the truth is, there is not too much to say. we finally got to the point, where not only, not only will people pay $425 for a pair of jeans, but they'll pay for polyurethane fake jeans.

-- fake mod on the jeans. they don't have dirty jobs but they want you to think so. my beef with nordstrom's isn't that they don't value icons of work. they clearly do. my beef is they don't value authenticity. once again, as a country, what do we --- what the hell are we doing? we're distressed jeans are one thing, but these look like you crawled through a sewer, this is what they look like, $425. i know. i have crawled through sewers. i could sell you the same ones for $15 and still make a profit. >> tucker: if you were making the federal minimum wage of $7.25, you have to work for two and a half weeks before taxes to buy one pair of the working man jeans. >> in order to look like a working man, right. listen, man, this is a world completely defined right now by fake everything, right. fake news, we don't trust anything that we hear, and part of the problem is because they're screwing with monopoly and asking us to buy a pair of pants like these.

what are we doing? >> tucker: with synthetic chinese mud attached. thank you, mike. >> thank you. see you at 3:00 a.m.. >> tucker: tonight's reality check. news so strange it must be true. the kingdom of saudi arabia has been elected on the united nations commission for wait it, the status of women. not the u.n. commission on sand or legal systems, but the statuo of women that exists for gender equality. both egypt and iran are already members. obviously someone at theua u.n. has a sense of irony, but the saudis? even as a joke, that falls flat. keep in mind, saudi arabia is a country in which every adult woman must have a male guardian, and that guardian's permission is required for females to travel, receive higher education, get married, and even undergo surgery. every woman must wear a hijab

in public and in some parts of the country, women must cover everything but their eyes. not allowed to drive cars, testimony in court is worth half of a man's testimony. they can even be forcibly married off as children if their fathers request it.. so let's see, the country that as a matter of official policy, treats women as less than human, will now be lecturing the rest of us about feminism.ll if you had to sum up the united nations in a single sentence, that would be it. t up next, caitlyn jenner will be here to talk about a brave decision publicly supporting donald trump for president. stay tuned. tuned.

>> tucker: well, caitlyn jenner requires no introduction. tomorrow, gender is releasing a memoir called "the secrets of my life" from olympic champion to kardashian clan member to one of the most famous transgender person. thanks for coming on. >> well, thank you.

nice to be on your show,in first day. let me welcome you. yeah, you've been running around, trying to find a spot for you. yes. >> tucker: hopefully i'll stay for a while. so you've been called courageous a lot. one of the braver things you did was voting for trump while living in malibu and telling people about it. what did your neighbors and friends say when did you that. >> they were fine in malibu, but let's put it this way. i never actually came out and outwardly supported trump. the media did that for me. i'm on the republican conservative side. >> tucker: right. >> and he wound up being our candidate, and so certainly, i was going to vote for him. he looked like he would pretty good on lgbt issues, which is important, because my loyalties don't lie with donald trump. they don't lie with the republican party. my loyalties and what i'm fighting for is my community, the lgbt community, the trans

issues that are out there. because there are many of them., and so that is where my fight is. and i thought trump would be pretty good. he has kind of disappointed me in the first 100 days on those issues. >> tucker: i guess what was so striking about leaving donald trump aside, this was anse election with hillary clinton in it, who is, you know, obviously strong in lgbt issues, took a lot of money from lgbt groups. it seems like that would be a no-brainer. why didn't you vote for her?ou >> because i am not a one-issue voter. i believe in limited government. i believe in our constitution. >> tucker: yeah. >> i believe, i would rather convince the republican party do a better job when it comes to all lgbt issues than to try to convince the democrats to lower taxes and lower regulations and let the country drive, you know, financially and economically. >> tucker: that's a really interesting point. it is obvious you feel that way,

or you wouldn't have done it. isn't there a lot of pressure, though, on you, specifically to be a one-issue voter? how do you deal with that? >> i totally agree with you. a lot in the community are, and they were upset that i, you know, i was a republican, and i said at the republican national convention, i said it was harder to come out as trans than it was to come out a member of the republican party. and so, yeah, it has been tough. but we have tremendous issues in our community. i talk a lot about it in the book. we have a murder rate that's out of control right now, already this year, we've had nine transc women who have been murdered, just from -- since the first of the year. we have a suicide rate which is nine times higher than the general public in the trans community. and i sometimes get very disappointed with trump, especially when he went up

against title ix, and they repealed obama's equality on title ix. and jeff sessions has been very kind of anti-lgbt. i know on march 10th, there was a letter sent to him to try toet prosecute the murderers of these trans women as hate crimes, which has been done in the past, and he never even responded to the letter. which is extremely disappointing to me. so yeah, there is a lot of issues out there for our community that i'm fighting for. i want the republican party to do a better job. >> tucker: i wonder if it is not just enough to prosecute someone for murder, is that not enough? i mean, since everyone is ancu american and all lives are equal, transgender people and why wouldn't is be enough to be charge with murder. >> ken buck, a congressman from colorado was the first one to prosecute someone under hate crimes.ad

obviously the verdict is a lot more difficult, it is a lot tougher on a hate crime issue than it is a regular murder. and too many times, trans women who are murdered, they're almost brushed off to the side. a lot of times, it is only a trans woman. look what she was doing or make excuses. that's not the case. we need protect all americans, including my community. >> tucker: wouldn't that -- >> it is important that we get serious. >> tucker: i agree with the first part of what you said completely. it is important to protect every american. put yourself in someone else's position, if someone you loved were killed, and the murderer received a lesser sentence because they were part -- your loved ones was not part of the trans community, that seems unfair. >> we've got other issues too. the murder rate is so high. right now, we've got, that i'm really concerned with, the nexte move for the trump administration, mark green, who is a republican from tennessee,

a senator, and he is up for secretary of the army. this guy has come out with some of the most anti-lgbt statements ever. calling me, a trans person, as a disease. i need to tell mark green, i don't have a disease okay? he called about fighting the bathroom issue as, you know, the bible tells me i have to go after evil, you know, i'm not an evil person. h >> tucker: i don't think anyone is suggesting that you're an evil person. i do think there are some deep questions that people of. goodwill and good faith can ask. you've said in a convincing way, you believed you were a woman from early in your life, from really in the beginning, you knew this is who you were, but you couldn't come out and express it. so but does that mean you believe that gender is biologically determined? that's kind of the opposite of what a lot of people are saying? >> no, a lot of people are saying it is genetic.

i was born with this, you made a statement last time, when you were with jillian weis, you were coming up with this scenario of a guy, 35, all, all of a sudden, i am a trans and i'm going to go be a woman now and i'm going to get federal funds for women's issues. that's totally -- that does not happen in the trans community. you are basically born this way. i've dealt with these issues since i was this big.hae it is not something that is just a whim. >> tucker: by the way, hold on. just to be clear, i would never argue it was done on a whim. i don't believe that. i didn't mean to suggest that. i do think that there are real life issues around this question. here is one of them, obviously t sports you know very well. a transgender woman just won a major weight lifting title. some people said this is someone who has a massive physical advantage over the other entrants. seemed like a real thing to me.

>> we're getting off the subject of my book. i talk about my journey but to answer that the olympic committee is way ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to dealing with identifying transgender issues in competing. all the way back when i was competeing in the '70s, all the women had saliva test to make sure they wereco female. we had the east german women and the soviet women and all that kind of stuff.ma well, since then, there has been a lot of gender nonconforming, we don't know where they fit in to the athletic world and the olympic committee has done 20 years of studies on issues of hormone levels of whether you need gender confirmation surgery, what can you do as a trans person to be able to compete as your authentic self.. they've come up with guidelines. you meet the guidelines, you can compete. obviously this woman did. >> tucker: do you think it is fair? >> yes, it is totally fair.

the olympic committee thinks it is fair, i'm fine with it. there is no issue, you know, no big advantage. >> tucker: well, of course, a physical, in that case, there was a big physical advantage. >> well, we are not going to get into that. in fact, i think, i'm pretty sure with the olympic committee, you don't have to have gender confirmation surgery, just how long you've been on hormones,on how long you've done this and that. >> tucker: the question, because this is a subject that ishi evolving, i think pretty rapidly for a lot of people, and it may change after your book comes out, but do you think it is possible for people to be peoplp of goodwill, people of faith and generous spirit, but to be confused, at least or baffled and say i'm not exactly sure i understand it, but still be good people. >> they do not understand gender identity. they understand sexuality. the old saying is sexuality is who you sleep with. gender identity is who do you go to bed as. it is a totally different subject. d you cannot compare sexuality

and gender identity. it is a hard thing. honestly, i've been fighting this war for the last couple of years, and i don't even think in my lifetime most people will ge it. but we need to bring this subject forward. why? because of the youth.t that's what i talk about in the book a lot. i don't -- i'm fine.us everything in my life is good. i've been very lucky. but what i'm fighting for is the next generation coming up, so they can have it easier for them. so that's where the fight is. i mean, with the suicide rates, and all the have, yeah, we've got a lot of work to do and trying for people to understand the issues. >> tucker: right. caitlyn jenner, thank you for joining us. i appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> tucker: up next, ann coulter getting vocal support for the people trying to block her, surprisingly and happily. plus a business journalist

says everything bad about thee american economy can be traced back to harvard business school. joining us to explain what he found, stayha tuned. tuned. "how to win at business." step one: point decisively with the arm of your glasses. abracadabra. the stage is yours. step two: choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free night-instantly and win at business.

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>> tucker: conservatives have argued that college campuses are completely, perhaps irredeemably nuts. now the left are upset about it. senator bernie sanders had harsh words for activists who were trying to block an appearance by ann coulter.

at uc berkeley. "huffington post" interviewed sanders and he said "what are you afraid of? ask for the hard questions. booing people down or intimidating them or shutting down events, i don't think that works in any way." meanwhile, b bill maher weighed in on the same subject. >> it used to be the cradle of free speech, and now it is the cradle for [bleep] babies. i feel like this goes on all over the country. they invite someone to speak who is not what liberals want to hear. they want to shut her down. i feel like this is the liberals' version of book burning. it has to stop. >> tucker: the difference, sanders and maher, when the left believed in free speech. speaking of rocks from college campuses, jeff mcdonald is a business reporter. he just wrote a book. it is a big book

and argues this. the most prestigious school ---- at least partly responsible for the fact that our economy's increasingly fake, designed to benefit the already rich and pretty screwed up. thanks for coming on. you call harvard business school dangerous. >> it is dangerous because they are failing at their mission of creating an enlightened managerial class. they're sending out graduates who view the world in a certain way, and without the right moral framework to go about the lifefe they probably should. >> tucker: there are a lot of them. l like over 75,000 or more hbs graduates running the economy. what are the attitudes that you think are the most harmful to the country? >> one of them is what i call sort of analytical world view, where because they're taught by spreadsheets, they think -- they come to believe the most important things in any decision or organization are those things you can counter measure, when

any sane person knows that's not true. another one is they teach byhe what is called the case method. and i think there is an amoral underbelly to that. they're taught there is no one right answer to any business section. there is only well articulated or less well articulated answers. that can lead you right down the slippery slope into justifying any decision you want. >> tucker: that's for sure. now, you went to wharton business school, basically the main rival to harvard. you're not against all business schools, but you argue that the distribution of wealth in our country where an ever smaller group of people have an ever larger percentage of it, causing volatility, it's directly related to harvard business school. >> absolutely. it is important to remember, they were founded around the

time of the last big populous, a century ago, when americans were concerned that the robber barons would eat everything in their path. a century later, there a reason donald trump got elected, because the people are angry at the way the elites have handled the economy. spreading thes wealth isn't happening the way ited should. the people in control are from harvard business school. >> tucker: it seems like these are smart people, they went to hbs, but it seems like there is a certain mind set that comes out of there that has to do with short-term gain over long-term health. is it fair to lay that at the feet of the school? >> absolutely. you know, one thing i point out in the book, the emergence of shareholder capitalism in the '80s during the reagan era, when basically we went from thinking managers had responsibilities to other constituencies to one responsibility alone to the share price. michael jensen, who was one of the most well-known professors at the time, he was like the intellectual vanguard of agency

theory in shareholder capitalists. they have a lot do with it. >> tucker: when you say they had other constituencies, what were they? >> their employees, communities, their country. look at all the tax inversions that, you know, you can have any position you want on tax aversions, but basically someone asked someone from apple, how do you feel about notot paying any tax in the states, and they said our responsibility is to the shareholders, not to theat country. it is amazing they can pump out people who can't entertain the idea you can havey responsibilities to more than one constituency at the same time.li >> tucker: it has been going on so long, the rest of us don't notice. i have a responsibility to my shareholders, what about our country? i'm glad you reminded us it wasn't always that way. duff mcdonald.d. great book. thanks for coming on. >> thanks, tucker. >> tucker: up next, professional psychiatrists declaring

without having talked to him that president trump is mentally ill. is it a gross violation of professional ethics? the weirdest story of the day or something darker? our panel debates that. plus, bill hemmer, one of the great people at fox news, with us in the friend zone. stay tuned. stay tuned.

♪ ♪

♪ i'm dr. kelsey mcneely and some day you might be calling me an energy farmer. ♪ energy lives here.

>> tucker: so there are so many weird things happening in the news, we decided to make a game out of it. called top that. our two panelists compete to find the strangest story of the day. tonight, we've got lisa boothe of "the washington examiner"th and katherine lyons managing editor at famous d.c.

>> president trump has been called every name under the book. the stock markets were supposed to crash if he won and the world was supposed to end, but a group called duty to warn, 25 psychiatrists to warn the world of president donald trump's mental illness. they believe it is grounds for impeachment, saying it was the elephant in the room. he said one warning sign was president trump's over estimation of his inaugural crowd size. this group is being called out for violating what is called the goldwater rule, trying to diagnose a public official. who they have met with. they've never examined him. also the connecticut republican party chairman said "they are throwing ethical standards out the window because they cannot accept the results of the election."." >> tucker: an unintentional o diagnosis of their own mental health.

>> all right, clemson university administrator is suggesting student candidates running for office pass an inter cultural competency test.ca the first part saying it five times. >> tucker: i would fail. >> basically suggesting that they take the test to determine whether they qualify to hold a t position in their student office, in the student government. students are outraged, saying this negates the whole democratic process, and is a modern day form of -- fascism and communism. >> tucker: you have to take the propaganda course before you are allowed to run. >> nobody could get to that point because they couldn't say it five times. >> tucker: you can't even run unless you agree with me. >> exactly. something you learn in the real world. sounds look a good idea, but so were hoverboards until they caught on fire.ou l

>> tucker: why let voters decide? both are crazy. yours is a little more offensive in a way, but yours is taking us in a medical setting. i've got to say the lunacy award goes to you, lisa. you get a participation effort. >> tucker: it's 2017. everybody gets a participation award. time for the friend zone, we bring in someone we love, and that's bill hemmer, how are you? >> doing well. congratulations, great to be with you tonight. really great. >> tucker: i get questions about you all the time. what bill hemmer really like. you and i worked together at another network. i don't know the answer. how did you get there? >> wow, i chose a story tonight for you, tucker, and your audience. it is the story that changed my life. i was 26 years old and was just

starting to make inroads in the industry. i had $15,000 in the bank. i quit my job. r entirely left it behind, because my pursuit was to back pack around the world for a year. and so i took off for what was third world travel. this wasn't like the four seasons where your friends hang out. this was china, indonesia, vietnam, nepal, india, the middle east, russia. i did it, because i felt i could not go further in my own life, unless i truly understood what it was like to be out there. and that's -- i would suggest to you that's the reason why i know people like you, tucker. i >> tucker: to see a bearded bill hemmer on the screen, you look completely different. you and i ran into each other in baghdad at the beginning of thee iraq war. i remember asking you how you got there. you had taken a taxicab from

syria and slept in the back the entire way. i said bill, that's dangerous, shooting and stuff. you said no problem at all. i've always wondered how you got that calmness on this trip. >> that's a great question. i always think that as reporters when you're out there in tough places, if you can keep your heart away from your head just far enough to make sure you can still think at the same time you can report, then the emotions of the moment won't get to you. i think the viewer is served by that. that's the advantage of that. >> tucker: when you're speaking to college students, younger people and they're asking you for career advice, do you say to them, quit your job and just take off with your life savings? >> no, although i would like to see more of that. for me, for me, it was a personal cho this was 1993, tucker. you think about the world then. right before e-mail, right before atm. i mean, what is it like not to post everyday on instagram or facebook.an your family probably think you dropped off the face of the world.

but you know, you can do it without google maps. it is possible. i think there were two larger points to be made in all this. we, in our jobs, we have to have a breath of knowledge, and i don't think there is a day that i come to work where i don't incorporate something into my job that i learned out there. you know, we have to know that much about that many things ever yday. and i think that's one lesson. i would suggest the other lesson is that if you are facing a personal decision in your own life, sometimes you cannot afford not to take that risk. because that will change your life.ak >> tucker: that is deeply, deeply, deeply true. did you ever get held up on the road?r: did you get robbed at all? >> couple times. not bad, just pocket change.ro i would dare suggest to you my friend, but yeah, i mean, at times, it was sketchy.ld but i think situational awareness is the way you get

through a lot of that. they teach you that in the military. as long as you're aware of your surroundings, you'll be okay. i didn't cut or shave my hair for ten months. try that. >> tucker: i assume you bathed at some point. >> on occasion. >> tucker: on occasion. the great bill hemmer, i've o spent a lot of time with you, mostly like des moines, iowa. >> i tell you, one time i was offered my first position, my boss said write every place i you've been. why do i need to do that? you're 30, but you look like you're 18. if i sell you to my boss, i need this list of countries to show them what you're all about. the evidence is there. take the risk if you have it. >> tucker: bill, thanks for joining us. >> great to be with you, tucker. >> tucker: that's it for us tonight. our first night at 8:00. the show will always be the

pomposity, smugness, and group "the five" next think. from new york city. have a great night. >> kimberly: hello, everyone. i am kimberly guilfoyle. along with bob beckel, jesse watters, dana perino and greg gutfeld. this is "the five." it's a very exciting night for us on "the five" as we have moved from the 5:00 and 9:00 p.m., prime time. we have a big show so let's get it started. we are almost 100 days into the trump administration.. according to an abc news "washington post" poll, 96% of those that voted for trump in november said it was the right decision.