we will see you back here in an hour. "outnumbered" search right now >> sandra: a big test for republicans on capitol hill today where the house right now is debating. the revamped bill to repeal and replace obamacare, i have a vote, expected in the next hour. this may be a nail-biter, but republicans believe they can pull out a win and deliver on a top priority for president trump. this is "outnumbered." i'm sandra smith. here today, harris faulkner, meghan mccain, former deputy spokesperson for the state department under president obama, marie harper, and today's #oneluckyguy, the opinion page editor for "the washington times," charlie hurt is here and he is outnumbered on a seriously busy news day. let's get started. the magic number, 216. that's how many votes republicans need to send the replacement for obamacare to the

senate and they're confident they have the votes after a comprise which they say will cover those with pre-existing conditions. health and human services secretary tom price has president trump delivering on his promises to give americans better health care. >> the overall plan will bring down costs, will allow for more individuals to be covered right now then there are right now. we believe and will provide for greater coverage with those with pre-existing illness and injury. the president of the united states has made an absolute commitment to the american people that we make certain those with pre-existing conditions are covered and this bill will do that. the >> sandra: democrats blasting the bill. nancy pelosi warning that republicans who vote for this will have a stain next to their name. >> most people don't even know who their congressperson is at many places. now they'll find out. we will find out who their

congressperson voted to take away their health care. they will find out that their congressperson forced them to pay higher premiums and adaptable and increased out-of-pocket costs. they will find out that their congressperson will take health care away from a 24 million people and this could mean new. >> sandra: mike emanuel joins us live for all the activity is today on capitol hill. what is the latest? >> one concert of house members said they have 218 votes which would be enough to pass this republican health care package in the house. soon he won't need estimates, we should have an actual vote in the actions taking place just up from where i am on the house floor this hour, we expect some more debates from lawmakers for and against this. the reality of obamacare is forcing them to act.

>> i think you're going to see a proud vote today on the floor by a bunch of members ready to go and rescue people from the failures of obamacare. >> this comes from after weeks of talks. a key breakthrough came when michigan's fred upton and billy long announced they were for the bill. upton allowed an amendment which allowed $8 billion for people with pre-existing conditions. democrats are blasting the bill. >> it takes real cojones to stand here and vote on a bill that they know provides nearly zero health care benefits for the american people. it takes real fortitude and conviction to stand up for a bill that cuts coverage for 24 million americans, cuts to medicaid, it.

>> will essential changes could be made in the senate, . >> sandra: first of all, your response to nancy pelosi's words about republicans who vote yes to this bill will have a stain next to their name. >> charlie: is kind of funny with the person who said he got find out what's in the bill when you voted. we look back at the situation, obamacare is failing and as often as the case, donald trump was absolutely correct, politically correct, he said the easiest thing for republicans to do would be to step back and let this thing fail and then try to pick up the pieces later. they chose not to do that. i'm not sure what i think about the political wisdom of doing that, but they chose not to do

that and the idea that democrats are sitting on the sidelines not doing anything to fix this problem strikes me -- that puts them in a very politically vulnerable position. >> sandra: let me get your prediction. kevin mccarthy is saying we are going to pass it. mike emanuel reporting they've got 218 yes votes at this point. we'll see. >> meghan: i would tell everyone to simmer down. first and foremost, it shows at the freedom caucus has a lot more power than i gave them credit for. they have shown that they can play a game of chicken and that moderates will have to meet them in the middle and the freedom caucus can meet anybody anywhere. that politically is very fascinating. right now congress is kicking the can and at a certain point when he gets to the senate, it's going to get entirely rewritten and there'll be a a whole new battle. any success or cheering that we have right now is pretty too early to be popping champagne at this point. mark stafford has said that he always thought repeal and replace was a pipe dream.

yes, it's gone through. that doesn't mean when the bill gets to the senate it's going to be complete they gutted. >> sandra: republicans could claim victory here. you have the $8 billions added to the bill yesterday. that's when a couple no votes to yes. they can at least claim victory if this passes in the house. >> marie: here's what should be concerning. independent experts who have seen part of this bill have said this bill will still drive up premiums, it will stemming people's coverage. pre-existing conditions will not be covered like they are now, and when tom price goes out there and says all these things that everyone else is saying aren't true, that's a huge gamble with people's lives and what politics going into 2018. republicans are doing exactly what they accused us of doing in 2010. they're pushing a bill through very fast, no cbo score.

>> sandra: we don't know how much it costs. >> harris: but we do know how the administration has felt about cbo scoring. that's one number we can look at and let's get going. i do differ with your take on all of this and this sense. i give the american people much more credit and they do understand that this is step one in the house and at the senate is yet to come. it's not our first rodeo as american citizens. we've seen this before and i think they're pretty bright to know that if you're going to get anything done, at least get the first step. 237 of the 238 members of congress or of the house are among the republicans. that's everybody excluding representative new house because of a family emergency. everybody's all in on being there. that speaks to the importance of not only congress, but also the white house.

>> charlie: absolutely. again, this is where my primary objection is. i don't support any obamacare or obamacare lite. the federal government does do a good job of running the post office. if they are going to come up with something, i want all 435 to be working on it. i'm not going to like what they come up with no matter what. >> harris: where are they? >> marie: part of the problem is the g.o.p. did not post the bill until 8:00 p.m. last night. the g.o.p. in 2010 said as nancy pelosi going to vote so what on something without seeing it? what's the rush? calm down, bring on the democrats, show us the bill, talk to these high-risk pools who have had some issues. if you want democrats involved, takes up to show that. >> meghan: they don't want democrats involved.

at this point. while the freedom caucus is in congress, there are representatives in the senate who will be representative of their constituents as well who are more libertarian, much more physically conservative and this will continue the same battle. the same issues with possible moderates going home -- >> charlie: i don't see it as an ideological battle. >> meghan: town halls what across america with people out. showing the grave ideological differences within republican party? you don't think that exists? >> charlie: i don't think they're fighting an ideological fight. they are accepting the idea that we need a form of obamacare and they're getting ready to pass the second worst socialized medicine bill. >> meghan: pre-existing conditions is a sticking point for moderates. there is a difference between complete the repealing, not

replacing, which is possibly an option and was probably going to happen. >> sandra: this debate is happening right now. pictures on capitol hill. charlie, can you walk us through what you'll be watching? >> charlie: as you pointed out earlier, 216 is a number we are looking for. it is going to be a nail-biter. going back to your point about regular order, which i would say didn't do this in regular order. if democrats -- republicans are laying democrats off the hook for this disaster. that troubles me. what i would find very interesting is if this were going through more regular order, whether democrats -- i don't think they would, whether they could form an absolute -- >> harris: republicans would have to lose 21 votes. that's a lot.

democrats don't like walls, that would create a wall. >> sandra: just moments ago, president trump, as you saw, signing an executive order on religious liberty which relaxes rules against churches that promote portable candidates. whether this went for social conservatives can hold up in court. plus you may be surprised, hillary clinton after blaming james comey and wikileaks were her election loss. the latest fallout. and go to our live chat by clicking the overtime tab at foxnews.com/outnumbered or go to facebook.com/outnumbered fnc. of course you can also tweet us, we've got our phones. >> meghan: marie has an announcement coming. you don't let anything

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liberty mutual insurance. >> harris: we are checking back now, fox news alert with what's going on on the floor. there are still talking about the health care bill. most of the members for the republicans are in today, 237 of them, they need to have that number of 216 votes in order to pass this in the house and then

of course, goes on to the senate. we will keep a close watch on i it. moments ago, president trump signed an executive order on religious liberty while marking the national day of prayer at the white house joined by vice president pence and religious leaders. the order he signed aims to relax rules on churches so they can support political candidates without risking losing their tax-exempt status. and it also pushes to make it easier for employers with religious objections to include birth control from the health care plan. watch. >> will not allow people of faith to be targeted, bullied, or silenced anymore. we will never, ever stand for religious discrimination, never, ever.

tolerance is the cornerstone of peace. >> harris: liberal critics are already pouncing, alleging that the executive order would allow discrimination. an aclu official is warning and he actually asserted this yesterday, if present from signs an executive order that attempts to provide a license to discriminate against women or lgbt people, we will see him in court. we can get to that in a moment, but charlie, i wanted to start at the beginning of what the president said he was wanting to do today and i was make a difference. social conservatives, did they check this as a victory? >> charlie: i think is a huge victory. the johnson amendment is one of these arcane laws that is not often enforced by the irs that punishes churches, people who have tax-exempt status if they stray into politics.

the problem with little enforced laws like this is that people were most concerned about following the law are the only ones actually abide by the law. then it gets very loosey-goosey on the edges. this is something that has scorched social conservatives for a long time. it is very interesting. donald trump is on a big gunner. he has guns, but he's not a hunter or anything, and he's not exactly a bible belt politician, but he made promises to those groups in the campaign and democrats did everything they could to separate those people from donald trump, he's not one of them, but they think he'll stick out for them. >> harris: look at the nara last week. the very early supporters among the most staunch supporters of this president. marie, some of the criticism has been that this will hold up legally and there'll be a backlash, talk to me. >> marie: i do think there may

be some legal challenges. we've seen with the hobby lobby decision, particularly women, health care and birth control, that is an issue that will be challenged. i met a lawyer, i don't know how that will turn out. i'm concerned about it and it will be interesting to see how it plays out in the courts. for me, i'm more fundamentally uncomfortable with it because i do want to keep politics away from church. i don't need more politics in my life. i don't need to come in on sunday morning and i'm uncomfortable with the notion that religious organizations endorsing candidates. i think there is no partisanship in this world and let's let our religion to be separate from that. >> harris: where you put those black churches who are praying for barack obama? >> meghan: it's not uncommon. i have seen plenty of videos on the internet where pastors of

churches were telling their congregations to vote for a specific candidate. when you're talking about this bill not being enforced, i more thinking about it -- this is something i thought was already going on to an extent. >> sandra: paul ryan responded, he said it's high time we restarted the religious right. >> marie: for someone >> meghan: i couldn't vote for a democrat for that reason alon alone. most of how i voted, at six important to me. a lot of times, i want to say politics and state stone and are stacked, it's a natural way for which it's going to. >> harris: this is specific, at least for my personal witnessing and some black churches where it was specific to the democratic party and such

that it was barack obama and those were running with them. >> charlie: all churches pray for our nationalis that step ofd getting people to go to the polls. that's the line. >> harris: former national security advisor susan rice is under fire for refusing to testify before a senate panel. in the unmasking of u.s. citizens during the russian investigation. nine top lawmaker says her refusal makes it seem like she has something to hide. does she? we'll talk about it. we are waiting a big vote in the house. republicans making another push to repeal and replace obamacare. they say they have the votes. stay close.

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republicans on capitol hill today. the houses expected to vote on that revamped bill to repeal and replace obamacare. that bill is expected in the next hour. we are seeing the debate happening on the floor right now. we're going to stay on this for you. big news when it happens. >> meghan: susan rice is a refusing to testify before a senate subcommittee. rice, declining senator lindsey graham's invitation saying it was not bipartisan. this, as lawmakers look into her election involvement unmasking citizens during the russian probe. president trump is morning tweeting to take away, not good. chuck grassley saying her toy stands in stark contrast with other high-ranking national security officials. lindsey graham invited her and then i believe the white house

came out and said i didn't extend an invitation to the democrat, so politics are not allowed to do this. such a copout. >> charlie: yeah, it has to be one of the worst. i have no idea what that even possibly means, but it does underscore something that is applicable about this. this whole scandal i think is the biggest crisis of the entire obama administration. i don't use that word lightly. it really is a constitutional crisis. if it were not so in view of politics, it would be a bipartisan outrage with what happened here. because it is squeezed through the plato maker of politics, everybody's taking sides as they do and nobody is searching for the plain, honest to god truth. >> meghan: maria, you are a former member of the cia,

doesn't this bother you? >> marie: here's the problem with the allegation. there has been zero evidence to back that up and in fact, bipartisan republican and democratic members will find a chance to look at those documents devin nunes was talking about came away and said we didn't see anything improper. i understand -- >> charlie: how do you explain mike flynn thing? >> marie: which one? there are so many i can explain to you. >> charlie: the fact that he was unmasked, those transcripts were revealed. >> marie: there could be very legitimate national security briefings that mike flynn and his conversation with russian officials, turkish officials, any of these other officials was unmasked. i'm not saying that have been dori didn't, i'm saying there is zero evidence to back up the

claim that this is a constitutional crisis. i want the senate to have hearings on russian interference in our election. jim comey said they are still interfering. surgeons and answer some questions. i think republicans are also using this politically. they're saying will invite her, she'll say no, then we will say she is. let's put that in the context of what russia did. >> harris: i want to go back to sanders question because i think it's a good one. i didn't quite hear it in your answer. i understand what you think it says for republicans, but what does it say specifically for susan rice? i want to contextualize it for you. she's a person who walked out the scenario of a video having brought about the killings in benghazi of our americans.

she walked all those talking points that were proven not to be true. and the context of wanting to get to the truth of her at the center of it, what do you think it says that she is saying no, i'm not going to come back? the >> marie: again, sometimes susan is her own worst enemy on these things. dianne feinstein came out and said she should probably come answer some questions. i would be happy for her, because it is a sensitive situation. i would love for her to answer questions in a way that were bipartisan or nonpartisan and to get to some of the truth of this unmasking issue. my problem is, republicans, i feel it, are trying to make the whole story unmasking and susan rice because she is an easy target when the whole story is russia meddled in our election, period. >> meghan: that's a lot of dancing.

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>> harris: we've been giving a loose timetable, but right now, the houses debating the health care bill on the floor and if they precede according to the schedule, they could be voting in the next 25 minutes or so. that's what we're watching for as we keep an eye on that breaking news story out of

capitol hill. the health care bill, expected to squeak through with more than 216 votes that are needed. i can tell you that a bed check vote a short time ago said they had the votes they needed for republican's to get this to the house. we're watching it, will bring you developments as it happens live. >> i was the candidate, i was the person who was on the ballot, but i was on the way to winning until a combination of jim comey's letter on october october 28th and russian wikileaks raised doubts in the minds of people who were trying to vote for me, but got scared off. >> sandra: hillary clinton facing maker backlash. david axelrod telling cnn that while clinton does have a

legitimate beef with the fbi director, the buck stops with her. >> jim comey didn't tell her not to campaign in wisconsin after the convention. he didn't say don't put any resources into michigan until the final week of the campaign and one of the things that hindered her in the campaign was a sense that she never was fully willing to take responsibility. >> sandra: john saki eck echoing most comments saying democrats need to recognize there were other reasons she came up short. >> democrats, people close to hillary clinton are going to stand politics, if they don't understand there were other failings, including where we didn't campaign, the fact that there wasn't pulling and swing middle of the country states, the fact that democrats failed to have an economic message that connected with people, then we are really missing an opportunity and we are really putting our heads in the sand to her own detriment. >> sandra: just can't resist

going back to hillary clinton's comments going out of the gate there. we've heard them several times. taking full responsibility, but then she starts pointing fingers and immediately had a rather reason she lost. space entry specific we we said james comey. >> charlie: yes. it's vintage clinton. i've been waiting for this firefight to start to kind of break out. she also blamed president obama for getting reelected. that's another reason she lost, because it so hard to follow somebody in the same party after two terms. everybody talks about the infighting in the republican party, i'm sure there's plenty, but this fighting that has to happen between now and the next election among democrats is going to be insane, because you have the obama coalition, the obama people, who are to blame for a lot of the problems hillary clinton had because she was running on a third term, based on his policies and

democrats lost 1,000 seats on these policies. for them to start sniping at one another, it's going to get worse. >> sandra: your saving your comments. let's go to marie first, because it does appear that her fellow democrats are very quick and kindly pointing out why exactly she lost. it doesn't appear she really recognize the real reasons or acknowledge them. the speed and i don't care if she ever realizes that, what i care about is party leaders who are leaders today and in the future, look at why she lost, all of the reasons, campaign strategy, nominating candidates with a bunch of baggage, but the interparty -- the fight i'm more concerned about is this rest of

the party and bernie sanders fight. bernie sanderson on a democrat. there are certain things we agree with him on in certain things we don't, his supporters -- he's never been a registered democrat. >> charlie: what do you think about a party where half of your party supports a socialist? >> marie: is the challenge. taking party supporters, the issues they care about, the sub -- taking the message on the economic side, what can we ask for average americans in places like my home state of ohio and try to bring some of those back? this is going to be a very interesting fight and i hope my party is up to it. >> sandra: at doesn't appear they are. tim ryan took a good shot at that. >> meghan: i take this from a totally different perspective about why politically she is not taken responsibility for her actions. i come at this from a personal place. i don't always invoke my personal experiences, but i have been there on election night front and center. when you lose and you lose to an

embarrassing way which is what happen with my father and also what happened with donald trump. on election night, my family prayed together, talked about how blessed we are and in that moment, that night, elected to move on. had my father been going on tv 100 days later blaming everyone else, i would have called him up, i would have personally yanked him off television and said you're embarrassing yourself. this is pathetic, this is not good for america. it's not good for americans to keep reliving this. they fail because it was the worst campaign ever. i find her behavior deeply unpatriotic and quite pathetic. >> harris: are you worried, marie, that while hillary clinton -- i have a buck, if you figure out where the buck stops -- are you at all worried about how this would affect her and an ability to focus an end help the party

because she still does have samoa joe she could help with, because you want to talk about women's issues and everything else, maybe she could certainly help fund raise, she knows how to do that. are you worried that she becomes a shiny object distraction for your party? >> marie: she doesn't. we have joe biden, barack obama, he is still very popular, left off his incredible a popular, and other leaders in the senate and house and state who are picking up the mantle of the democratic party and this isn't going to be hillary clinton's party. >> harris: you should call her so she knows. >> meghan: this mount personal version of hell where she comes on tv and tells her when why she should be president. fbi director james comey revealing yesterday that hillary clinton's top aide made a habit of forwarding emails containing classified information to her

husband, disgraced congressman anthony weiner. here's the exchange. >> was her classified information on former congressman weiner's computer? >> yes. >> who sent it to him? >> his then spouse, huma abedin appears to have had a regular practice of forwarding emails to him to print out for her so she could then deliver them to the secretary of state. >> why did you conclude neither of them committed a crime? >> because with respect to miss abedin, we didn't have any indication that she had a sense that what you doing was an violation of the law. >> meghan: we are already starting to talk. >> harris: let me tell you where we went there. this is marie. these are actually recto actively classified documents, right? what does that matter? we are in it to win it now. this woman was walking into her home, so as far as we know, he had his laptop, honey, can you print this? i emailed you such an old by the

way, let me upload a few? >> sandra: not once, not twice, but on a regular basis. >> meghan: he was also messaging underage women on the internet and being a complete pervert on the internet. >> charlie: who was the first person that brought that up? donald trump. dirt bag is now a presidential word, i'm pretty sure. >> meghan: it shows the arrogance that our spies and allies go through -- the arrogance of huma abedin that she thinks she can send this to her pervert husband who may or may not have been under investigation when it was happening, completely expose our national secrets to god knows who on the internet. i understand the hat they're

hanging this on, if it were you or me, and we had to mess with our husbands, i'm telling you it would be a different story. the media continues to get this woman a free pass. she's at the met ball this weekend. she continues to be treated as a celebrity for whatever reason and it's absolutely inexcusable. she has put americans safety at risk and she should be charged or brought under. >> harris: >> harris: to answerr question, to address it, here is my overarching thought on all of this. this sits with the original person who sent and had the emails on men in secure server appear hillary clinton. what clearance to the people in that circle have a question mark we know anthony weiner had some kind of clearance, but was he cleared to receive those materials? is a stain on the house of both of these women.

>> meghan: as much as i like talking about huma abedin, you do not. >> marie: i not going to lizza's argument, but i feel the need to make it as a former cia officer, i've seen the emails that have been released publicl publicly. some of the stuff, not all, for you jump on me, some of the stuff that they went back and classified were media articles. i have to do it, it's cathartic for me to get this out. some of them were literally press articles about classified programs that were retroactively classified. yes, she should not have done it, she shouldn't have had the private server, -- >> meghan: she should hate -- you should hate her more than me, because the position she puts it when -- >> sandra: the classification is irrelevant. >> marie: is a ton of classification information and if we are in a place where press articles are classified and because of that, she is putting

national security at risk, we all need to take a little bit of a deep breath here. that's all i'm saying. >> meghan: i feel bad for the position they continue to put that in. you cannot here make it okay. what a difference a day makes. the big assist from president trump and the 11th hour, how his dealmaking skills may have made all the differenc difference.

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the >> sandra: bar "outnumbered" in just a moment. first let's get to jump start with what's coming up in the second hour of "happening now." a big hour indeed. >> jon: we are waiting to key votes in the next hour. we'll see if there time is the term for republican efforts to repeal and replace obamacare in the house. leadership thinks they have the votes, we will know the answer to that soon. will also have analysis of the neck steps forward. plus the u.s. senate set to pass the bipartisan bill and pass it onto the president. it keeps the government funded through september. both sides are claiming a victory, we'll have that that for you "happening now." >> sandra: we will definitely be watching. thank you. >> harris: as we do a way that houseboat on the gop's revamped health care bill, is getting

credit for getting personally involved in delivering some last-minute votes. white house aides are saying the president has been working the phones seriously and he was able to get four key moderates on board after meeting with them at the white house yesterday. here's one of those former holdouts. really long on how his note turned into a "yes." >> one they made what i considered the change to pre-existing conditions, that's when i said, i may know. the president said billy, we need you. i said you don't have me. he said they need you. he called back yesterday, we need you, we need you, we need you. i'm happy to announce that we will have pre-existing conditions covered adequately. >> harris: you are clearing your throat. >> charlie: so sorry. >> harris: can you explain how these nose are becoming yeses? the one thing i pointed out a

week ago, yes it was the freedom caucus, but 60 votes they were worried about going into that friday a few weeks ago. only half of the more freedom caucus, the rest of the more moderate. >> charlie: as she pointed out earlier, it wasn't just the freedom caucus. what's interesting, it's moving the bill more leftward to include things like pre-existing conditions and things like that. again, at the end of the day, it baffles me that they are doing this without getting democrats to buy in to something. i think it will be a poor result. >> harris: you may want to get to the senate. >> charlie: yes, and when it gets past and the democrats can hang this entire thing on republicans. >> marie: here's the problem on pre-existing conditions. every single expert that has looked at this over the last 48 hours says, this will mean less

coverage for pre-existing conditions, high risk pools do not work out well, and it's not enough money, people will see in their lives a change and pre-existing condition coverage. republicans are making promises they can't keep. that is a problem. >> harris: you have said before, and i think now is a valid point more than ever, that the american public needs to know more about what's going into this bill in the process. i'm seeing on my twitter feed rate now that people have been trying to google it. what are your thoughts? >> meghan: what happens today isn't going to be the final bill that goes through the senate. as much as we can celebrate something happening today, i have no reason to believe that the exact battle that have been in congress isn't going to manifest itself again and the senate over things like pre-existing conditions, over things like medicaid, expansion expansion, -- >> harris: are you frustrated by this process? >> meghan: yes, because the

momentum is waning a little bit. i was made a lot of promises and i was quite upset when they didn't come to fruition. i think the ideological battle will continue on and will be talking about this for a very long time. >> sandra: this is a significant moment. newt gingrich this morning on "fox & friends" said the passage of this bill will be an extraordinary moment, an example of president trump's negotiating prowess. when he talked about momentum, he also commented on speaker paul ryan getting credit saying he deserves a lot of credit for never backing down, despite the setbacks. >> charlie: what he is primarily talking about is if there are some changes and it too medicaid, medicare, that allow the bill to realize very large and important savings over a ten-year period, if that's a silver lining, that is a significant silver lining. sounds good. we should know in the next few minutes because if they are close to being on schedule, although out of the corner my

eye, will pop it up or we can, they are still debating this on the house floor. we were anticipating a 1:00 p.m. eastern type vote, we are pushing up against that now and we are coming right back on "outnumbered." >> 50 and 64 under trunk care, costs will go up. premiums will go up, co-pays will go up

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...kidney problems, or high potassium in your blood. ♪ tomorrow, tomorrow i love ya, tomorrow ♪ ask your heart doctor about entresto. and help make tomorrow possible. ♪ you're only a day away. >> many thanks to charlie hirt, marie harf as well, good to have you both, such an exciting hour. we are going to continue to stay

here for "outnumbered" over time on the web and on facebook at facebook.com/outnumberedfnc, here is has that memorized, i still have to read it. "happening now" starts right no now. >> jon: we start with a fox news alert, we are waiting for lawmakers to take action on two issues, ready to vote on the spending bill already passed by the house. >> melissa: we are covering all of the news and "happening now." the house now said to speak and vote on the plan to repeal and replace obamacare, a key campaign promise of president trump. >> assist a more affordable, allows access to the kind of coverage they want, not that the government forces them to buy. >> jon: its fate in the senate still uncertain. >> another secret backroom deal with any -- having any hearings