>> looking back, a nation any grief trying to come to grips with the latest terrorist massacre in manchester. in fear of another imminent attack spreading across the u.k. and the atlantic. thank you so much for joining us in this early hour. >> leland: 2:00 a.m. eastern, that makes it across 7:00 a.m. in the united kingdom. they have raised the threat level to critical, there was a staggering death toll, 22 people, many of them kids killed by a suicide bomber at a packed concert hall in manchester, england. another 59 people injured. we are hearing the story of

survivors, recalling chili memories of how a night of fun and music suddenly turned to horror. >> we just heard screaming. everybody was running from the back. it was sheer chaos, people trying to get off the balcony. >> everything went calm for five or six seconds, it was scarily still. and then all of a sudden, that was it. pandemonium everywhere. >> julie: in the aftermath of this tragedy, troubling questions about the killer this morning. britain's terror level is now critical as people break for another possible attack. here in the u.s. as americans prepare for summer of outdoor concerts, many can't help to wonder about their own safety, can something like this happen at one of our own arenas?

>> leland: also this hour, president trump's marathon trip abroad takes him to rome for a meeting with pope francis, coming up in just a few minutes live on the ground in vatican city as it happens. >> julie: england is a nation in grief as people there and around the world try to make sense of a brutal attack that left 22 people dead, many of them children. at the same time they must grapple with the possibility of another attack that may be imminent. let's go live to benjamin hall, he joins us for manchester this early morning. can you describe the mood in that city? whatever police police learned about the suicide bomber that triggered mennonites massacre? >> good morning here from manchester. the question is whether there would be another attack, if it is part of a cell or wider network. what they will wake up to his country with a lot more security than before. the threat level has risen to

critical. 5,000 additional soldiers from the army will be deployed to the u.k. those of course are the main target. of the system and that is only happened three times in history that the terror level has risen to critical level. what it does is it frees up policemen so they can go on investigating and searching for any other possible cell or network. we are learning that the attacker who was born in manchester had recently come back from bolivia, it was after police raided his home that the terror level rose. there finding evidence that he was not operating alone. the sophistication of this bomb is greater than we've seen

before, that suggests that he had help. the threat level has risen, on the streets there is a feeling that this is not necessarily over until the police say so. while they don't have any evidence that there is a wider sell, they are taking extra precautions. they want to be extra safe. the last couple of days, we been speaking to people there, they are afraid of what's happened but they are resilient. they will keep going and they do feel safe with the security given to them. it is an extra level of protection. a lot of questions, not the least is was this directed by isis, was it inspired by isis? there is a clear difference there. the feeling here is that -- cowardly is the word we are hearing a lot. to go into a packed concert with teenagers, many of them young girls, 12 of the 22 killed were under the age of 16, it is a

cowardly act. many people looking back to the speech that president trump gave in saudi arabia recently, this ideology needs to be stamped out. drive them out of your countries, drive them out of your places of religion. that is really resonating here now. really all coming together here, the tragedy that we saw here monday night. thank you, guys. >> julie: thank you. >> leland: now to the vatican, less than an hour away from president trump's visit with the pope. amy kellogg live from the vatican as it st. peter's square fills up. good morning, amy. >> hi, leland. of the presidential motorcade is rolling, they have left the u.s. ambassador's residence in rome and they are on their way to the vatican. as you can see behind me, the

square is filling up. the meeting is designated for 8:30 in the morning, considered by many to be a snob, personally not prime time. as you know, trumps schedule is a jampacked. the pope is also doing his best to fit trump in he has a long day, wednesdays are high energy days for the pope. he is receiving president trump in the vatican, he has in the traditional residence, pope francis lives in a simple abode. he lives and eats with the priests and nuns, he will roll it all out for president trump this morning when they meet. first, they will go into what is the small throne room.

they will retreat into the library, it will be a one-on-one meeting. he will not be speaking in english. we will get some sort of read from that meeting, we will not know exactly what fireworks did or did not take place in that meeting. that could happen, he will get to see the true beauty and splendor of the vatican. so much has been made about the differences between the two cult men when it comes to climate change, when it comes to immigration, when it comes to arms and weapons trade. president trump is coming here after a visit to saudi arabia where he inked multibillion-dollar arms deal, the pope has said that anyone

who invests in the arms industry or is involved in it is a hypocrite. all of this exists in rhetoric, you may also member the famous line of pope francis, people who build walls, not bridges are not christians. bottom line, i think most people believe that pope francis is looking forward to meeting president trump, president trump the candidate has been different in his language from president trump the president. he has said that he really respects pope francis' personality, he represents something very positive. after that meeting, there will be an expanded audience with the first lady, we presume numbers of the first family, secretary

of state rex tillerson is likely to be at that meeting. we don't have the list of delegates but there will be meeting being called. and then president trump will meet with the vatican secretary of state and foreign minister to discuss policy issues in a bit more detail. it will get to see the glorious sistine chapel. and then we will be leaving here to meet the president of italy, prime minister of italy. this whirlwind tour continues after a very important to set of meetings kicking off very shortly at the vatican. >> leland: back to vatican city as the president arrives. julie has more. >> julie: president donald trump will be arriving in vatican city to meet with pope francis. this is the first time a u.s. president will have visited saudi arabia, israel, and the

vatican in one trip. thank you so much for coming in on this early morning, this is a very exciting trip. this is a bit different than past presidential visit to the vatican. why? >> everything is different with donald trump. amy did a great job showing some of the differences between them, it will make it an exciting encounter. there are a lot of similarities as well. maybe neither of them would like to admit that. but both of them have revolutionized and said they wanted to revolutionize the structure and the hierarchy over which they preside. both of them are loved more by the people than by those elites who surround them. also, they are willing to disrupt things. even on a political level, i don't think pope francis will call himself political but he has no problem being political.

and donald trump says he is not a politician >> julie: he definitely has slipped into that. before running for president, he did say he is an outsider. pope francis is very much an outsider. the way they deal people is more human. the popes of the past don't necessarily want to go out there and meet and greet, they don't get out of their transportation where they have the bulletproof glass to get out of the vehicle and go and kiss babies. it's that sort of different personality that i think might actually join these two, they might see that they have moren common that they might want to believe. >> i think so. what is going to be on their mind so much right now is terrorism. pope francis is a pacifist, who is the one speaking out two years ago. nobody was doing anything.

pope francis through his ambassador of the united nations, actually called for the use of force if necessary to stop isis. that is something nobody else was talking about. i don't think he's a pacifist, i think he is peace-loving and donald trump has called himself a lover of peace and maybe they are going to have much more in common then we might think. >> julie: we mentioned how the pope definitely does delve into politics, certainly more so than popes of the past. when it comes to some of the trump administration policies for example, he has been very vocal, mainly about the travel ban. that is something he believed was sacrilegious. it wasn't the right thing to do to ban certain religions from coming into this country, even though it was a travel ban, not muslim ban according to the administration. you watch this terror attack

unfold and learn more about the suspect and we hear about how he is the son of bolivian immigrants and british raised, it does definitely bring a president trump argument about immigration. >> i think what they have in common, you explained it really well, something called legal immigration. both of them, donald trump has said very clearly that he is not against immigration, he is against illegal immigration. pope francis if he is pressed will say of course, pope francis knows that illegal immigration is actually very bad for the immigrants. very bad for the refugees. what he is pushing countries to do is get it right, get the legal stuff right and make sure we are welcoming those who are fleeing, especially from imminent danger. at the same time, protecting the

state that has a right to regulate immigration levels. >> julie: what's interesting is when he made that speech in saudi arabia, he talked specifically about the islamic state. they worship death. that is a very interesting point. he goes to meet with the pope, religion is obviously at the forefront. how much do you believe that they will talk about religion and how to defeat the islamic state and how you must try to separate the two because you cannot possibly reason with the murderers who use god as an excuse to kill. >> both of them recognize that you don't need religion to say that killing innocent children is evil. another thing, it is fascinatin fascinating, what they have in common with this particular issue. pope francis was actually called satan one time, he said "satan is a loser."

he's the very essence of evil. president trump has been saying "these terrorists are losers." we are not even going to dignify them with the new monsters, these guys are losers. the reason they are losers is because in the end, they have bought the lies of the father of lies, who is the devil. >> julie: the president has mentioned that these clerics, these muslim communities need to get the message out there that there is not a reward on the other side when you commit a cowardly act. this is not something you will be rewarded for. how much of that needs to be said or communicated among communities that could potentially have one or two lone wolf islamic followers take

a different road and become radicalized? before that actually happens? >> so much and i think pope francis is aware of it. he even went as far as to say that the vatican would not enter into diplomatic dialogue. with countries who were in any way professing allegiance to protecting isis. that was very strong. all of the religious leaders within islam should be those voices of reason. we don't have to agree on theology, we can just say "what's just reason to reject evil." >> julie: we are awaiting president trump to pull into the vatican.

we did see some motorcycles and a blue lights. whenever we see blue lights. it must be the motorcade. there will probably be decoys as well, security is extremely tight especially considering what is going on in the world. >> >> leland: pope francis is famous for his fiat. you can see some of the american flag so they are on suburban, don't know if they are in the suburbans or if the president is and what they call the beast as he moves around rome and vatican city. there is one of the shots, right on time which is something this trip has not been. the president after saudi arabia was quite tired and has now had

a chance to rest. in rome and is now up early this morning to come see pope francis. >> julie: he is a morning person, i wonder if he is adjusting to the time schedule there. >> leland: we haven't seen any tweets. >> julie: not this morning, he has been tweeting. as of yesterday, he was tweetin tweeting. this is very exciting. to see this, the very first time i president has ever visited saudi arabia and israel and the vatican all in one trip. at this president is trying to send a message and a unified one. first of all, he is the first president to make saudi arabia the very first stop on an overseas trip, speaking volumes as to the message he wanted to send to muslim communities, 50 different countries that he wasn't speaking to there. what did that say? for him to go to israel and then vatican city, speaking to christians. he is covering it all.

>> leland: it's interesting, this president is not the most religious president in comparison to others that we've had, he has said that, that's not a judgment. he is getting a cold shower here when it comes to religion from the muslim base, from the jewish faith, the christian base. this is i am sure a sobering moment in his own life and leadership. i think as christians we believe that god has a moment for everyone and my guess is that this is a big moment for him. he is going to see the power of religion in the human soul. not only in his but the way it moves humanity for peace or for conflict. i'm very happy that he is meeting pope francis at the end of his trip, i believe he sees in him somebody he could work with as a partner.

>> leland: we got ourselves covered here in terms of religion and experts in the studio, we are bringing father murray to talk a little bit. you spent time in vatican city, tell us what we are seeing. those are the swiss guards, correct? >> the swiss guards, entering into the inner precincts of the vatican. president trump will be escorted into the palace, take the elevator upstairs. the pope is waiting for him up there. >> leland: can we read anything into the type of arrival ceremony? in the united states you can tell a lot about how meaningful and arrival is based on where it happens. can we read anything into this arrival ceremony or does everybody get the same treatment? >> this is the standard

treatment for heads of state. those are the men in formal wear, the guards, the secretary of state will be there to greet him. this is the highest level of greeting, according to protocol. >> leland: we presume this is president trump's suburban and we are being told that he is now going to come out of periodic they go upstairs, is it a formal office? give me a sense of where they are headed. >> pope francis and donald trum donald trump -- >> leland: we can listen and really quick. this feed is coming from vatican television so there is no audio. sometimes you get the spontaneous conversation there. we saw the first lady with

pope francis as well. go ahead and take us through what is happening as you see it. >> he was just greeted by the head of the household who is in charge of greeting when they come to visit. are these men ceremonial protection to visitors to the holy father, they are having the day of their lives right now. >> leland: i'm going to interrupt you, we do have some sound coming in, let's take a listen. we either missed of the greetings are we are not getting the sound from the camera that is down there with president trump.

the swiss guards saluting as the president walks in. >> he will go through rather long trek to get to the library where he will meet directly with pope francis, i think we are going to get some amazing pictures of these palaces. keep in mind that pope francis has decided not to live in these palaces but rather in a very simple guesthouse which is down 200 yards away. we will get to see some amazing images of these palaces and then finally he will come into a very small room and allow the press to come and most likely. the press will be sent away and it will just be the two of them. there's a lot of pomp and circumstance, no doubt, but at the end of the day, it is just two people talking to each other and they are going to have two

make friends and get down to very practical things. what do we have in common, how can we work together? both of them know that the world needs people working together even if they don't agree on some substantial things. >> leland: two men who put a great value on making others feel comfortable, we have seen that with donald trump and big crowds, with pope francis in both big and small crowds as well. personal interactions that they put great value on. >> they do, but they put great value on making people feel uncomfortable. >> leland: we will see in a few minutes when they go in with the pope and the president coming up. >> julie: i want to ask you, what do you think should be the foremost important topic that these two discuss when it comes to the fight against terrorism,

the fight against radical islam and how religion plays a role? >> the united states and the catholic churches both share a complete interest in ending religious persecution, that applies to crete christians come up as we know isis attacks muslims who don't agree with them. all of these things we share in common, religious freedom and religious liberty is a big deal, it's a big deal in the united states, president trump issued that executive order, president has spoken about the importance of religion. of the united states and the vatican both share an interest in stability in the world based not simply on mutual fighting each other to a standstill, but

understanding so nations can come together. we know a large part of the immigration crisis in europe is related to economic inequality, so to develop in the third world a more dynamic economy where people can grow and be able to live in their own country without losing the opportunities that they could get from immigration, this needs to be of concern to them. if there a lot of common points, they do tend to make people feel uncomfortable, the pope is going to challenge president trump and i don't think president trump is going to challenge the pope but he certainly will listen. >> julie: president trump doesn't certainly like somebody to challenge him. but i believe if there was anybody who can challenge the president and for the present to respond respectfully, it will be the pope. >> leland: you've also heard that the president doesn't mind being challenged in private. a lot of folks that you talk to

will say that he is willing to change his mind. we saw him do that about a very critical issue just on this trip, the king of jordan came over and talked to president trump and said moving the u.s. embassy isn't a good idea and president trump was willing to hear him out and basically reversed his decision on that at least temporarily. this is a president who is willing to listen, especially behind closed doors. let me give you a sense of what you are seeing here as we look inside the vatican. that should be the president and his entourage walking down, give us a sense of what these rooms are, what they mean, the symbolism behind what we are seeing. >> the amazing images, he's walking down this corridor, the crowd that is surrounding him, ceremony is of course, the crowd walking together with

president trump, little by little will peel off and the group with him will become smaller and smaller until he is just with the head of the household who is there greeting him at the beginning, and then they will go slowly through these corridors into the library where the holy father will meet one-on-one with president trump. these are the palaces that pope francis abandoned, he did not want to be living here but he does use them and i'm very glad he does because the artwork is so amazing and it's incredible. you see that they are accompanying him but little by little, all of that will go away and it will be president trump and pope francis. >> julie: this is interesting, the president looking very stoic and serious as he enters.

you have to wonder what is on his mind, i'm sure he has a list of bullet points that he wants to cover when speaking to the pope. we've been talking a lot third differences in that their politics play differently when it comes to certain things like immigration and so forth, but it's also interesting to make aware that these two have a lot in common, i believe, more than people want to say despite their political views. we are going to listen, i like to listen in a little bit and listen to the sound happening although it looks quiet.

talk about getting a grand tour. >> leland: this is just the beginning, after this meeting, walking through the sistine chapel and a lot of other parts of the vatican that are not in any way open to the public. this is not part of the 25 euro tour. >> everything is very small. you can walk right from here through if you know the way, you can get to the sistine chapel. a lot of these areas are certainly private, but at the same time, it's all very close quarters. >> leland: just to give our viewers a sense of what's happening, all of the video is commenting from vatican television that has cameras prepositioned. we are not in control of what picture comes in or the audio

and -- is that the door they just walked in to, talking about people peeling off? >> he is now walking into this library where he will sit down at the desk, pope francis will come out right now and greet hi him. and then they will go and sit down at the desk. >> julie: i'd like to listen.

[inaudible]

>> julie: you just saw the cameras and the flashes as they were talking about, they're going to set at this desk, that was their photo opportunity, they will talk for a moment or two and then they will go into a private room. what happens next? >> two translators will come, one on either side of them and they will have the discussion. i am thinking, one of the first things pope francis will say to donald trump, "if you think i meant to say that you are not a christian, i apologize." i think it will be wonderful, that was one of the things that pope francis set on the plane, that was when donald trump was a candidate and now he is speaking to the president of the united states of america and my guess is it will be a very frank conversation. a lot of very serious topics of

conversation. pope francis has been clear that he does not think the west should be involved. donald trump said he is not interested in nationbuilding during his campaign, there are a lot of things they do have in common and i think they will talk about those things as well. >> julie: candidate donald trump had a different stance when it came to getting involved in civil disputes within different countries. as president, he did say he changed his mind. i think being president is much different than being the pope, you don't have to make decisions based on policy and foreign policy when you are making decisions, whether to go into a country and command air strikes. there is ivanka trump, she is also on this. if this is a rare opportunity we don't normally see, where you have the president and his family entering the vatican. his daughter, namely.

>> leland: jared kushner on the left as well. he has been omnipresent throughout this whole trip, we saw ivanka standing for the president at the conference in saudi arabia, we said jared kushner with the president. we saw them both with the president throughout their meetings in israel. this is vatican television giving us a tour of some of the various sites within the vatican that they are looking at. what are we looking at right now? >> these are the paintings within these rooms at the apostolic palace, it is magnificent, it is overwhelming. they are religious themes of christian history, themes of the bible and they are trying to convey to people who come in there that this is a sacred precinct in which you are entering a house of god and

reminded of god's action in history. the beauty of the vatican is meant to inspire people. this is a case where people use their wealth and richness to give glory to god through the visual arts. it's a beautiful place to be, i'm sure the party accompanying president trump will take advantage of getting this insider's look of the vatican. >> leland: we are told that among those of this trip, going on quite literally behind a closed door, we are told also with the president who will be in the next meeting, the first lady, jared kushner and ivanka trump, rex tillerson, the secretary of state, h.r. mcmaster, the nationally y advisor, there is a long list of folks who will be in much larger

meeting. where does the business take place? is that with the larger group or is it one-on-one between these two men? >> some of the business has already taken place, both sides have already communicated some of the issues that they are interested in speaking with the other about. i think they most likely have some sort of press release prepared as well, this is what we spoke about. but then of course, both of these leaders are known for just saying what they believe. i love the fact that they are going to have such a frank conversation. who knows what president trump is going to say when he comes out of there. i think he's going to come up with some great sound bites, some great sound bites that pope francis actually told him and vice versa. i think the vatican will give a very honest read out of what they spoke about.

>> leland: at some point we make at the moment that viewers are used to seeing when two heads of state meet, typically the press pool is brought in and they sometimes make comments to each other, welcome each other, the pool obviously there when the pope and the president met at that desk, it was difficult to pick up on the audio there, when we get the tape back from the u.s. press pool, we wonder we whether we may be able to hear the words that they exchanged. to your point, some things are already predetermined in these meetings, we have seen in each situation that the president has been on in this trip, there was some kind of built in for the president, the crescendo moment, visiting the western wall, the first sitting president to do that in israel, the big arms deal in saudi arabia, is there

something that we are building up to hear or is the meeting with the pope the big thing? >> i think we will get some very interesting points from the press releases that are given out afterwards, certainly what's on pope francis' mind is world peace. persecution of christians is a huge thing, but also immigratio immigration. that is a point of conflict but a point of opportunity. i mentioned earlier that i think both of them are going to talk about the need to make sure that the system in which immigration can happen legally and safely. pope francis did say he is liberal on some issues in terms of american politics, but at the same time, he is not in favor of illegal immigration, he is in favor of states getting their act together, let it be legal and let it be safe. i don't think president trump would disagree.

>> julie: when the vatican speaks to heads of state, they don't usually talk about religion. they talk about global issues like human trafficking, the refugee crisis, the environment. the environment is not the thing that president trump is high on as far as cuts to he made to his budget, but let's talk about what they will discuss when it comes to the refugee crisis. syrian refugees, he has commanded other countries were taking in refugees but as you remember, when president trump took office, he did not want more syrian refugees coming into the united states. we saw that gas attack in syria to which he responded very forcefully and went ahead and gave the go-ahead for those air strikes that happened at that airfield. how do you feel the pope will broach the topic of refugees, the crisis and the need for all countries including the united states? >> great question, we will only

know after the meeting. certainly the united states has been a very welcoming country over the history. the concern now has to do with the infiltration of terrorists coming from hot spot areas where islamic terrorism is ravaging the local population. the pope is a realist like president trump, i think the pope would agree with president trump that we have to eliminate isis, destroy it, that is a just war that needs to be carried out and then rebuild syria. the pope's interest is that christians and muslims live in peace in the middle east and that they both have respect for each other and protection. one of the things about the pope meeting with the president is that the united states is one of the most religious countries in the western world, the developed world. when the pope was here on his recent visit, i think he was amazed to see how many people came out to see him. the pope had never been to the

united states before and in europe things are a lot more secular. the united states typically says at the end of its speech, god bless america. that's never sitting european countries, there is a strict secular spirit that is not to the benefit of the christian people in the catholic church in europe. when the pope sits down with president trump he is sitting down with a friendly person with similar interest. religious freedom is one of the greatest gifts that we have in this country. the pope is certainly going to talk about that. >> julie: i wonder if the pope will make a specific policy request of the president. >> i would doubt that. he will make a general principle about the united states being a welcoming country that it's always been, i'm sure the president of the united states will respond that we have that tradition but we have to protect the security of the people. this bombing occurred in manchester was a very stark reminder that we have people

leaving in our western democracies who hate the freedom and to the spirit of freedom because they want to destroy it through violence. we have to protect the countries about europe and america from that. there are a lot of problems but there are also answers. >> leland: we are sort of watching images from right outside of the office that pope francis and president trump our meeting inside, members of the president's entourage, members of the pope's entourage or lack of a better term, people who work in the vatican, rex tillerson, h.r. mcmaster among others, i wanted to ask you about this quote from pope francis, he was on a trip recently and gave one of his usual press conferences on a plane and he talked about never making a judgment about a person without hearing him out. that was in direct response to a question about meeting president trump. is that an overture to clear the

air or at least build a bridge of a friendship between the president and the pope ahead of this meeting? >> i think so, he is very aware of the response of the people when he was asked, back during the campaign, what do you think about mr. trump? before he was president, he says he wants to build a wall. he said "without using the name of trump, anybody who only wants to build walls and doesn't want to build bridges, that person is not a christian. that is very strong, that sounds rather judgmental in my opinion. he is the pope who says who am i to judge? i'm sure later on he caught himself and said oh, my gosh, i'm saying i'm not saying thiss

not a christian, but it is not a christian thing to only build walls. i think they will have a very frank conversation about that, i think the quote you just gave was in response to that. saying he's not going to judge anybody, let me meet him first, let's talk about this, i think it was a very important thing to do. >> leland: will see what comes out of this meeting in terms of that, how these two men interact. >> julie: i want to bring in from washington marine ferguson. she covered the installation of pope francis and maureen, how do you expect these to call world leaders to get along? do you believe is pope francis' main message and maybe perhaps the first thing he wants to get to write off the bat when speaking to the president? >> of course in the lead up to this big meeting today, it's always fascinating to see a pope

and a president meet and it's always a significant event. a lot of focus in the lead up on the disagreements. there are so many areas of agreement, i think that is what will be focused on. these areas are actually of critical importance. already going to be at the top of the list, but now with the events in manchester, probably dominate the discussion. pope francis is fresh back from his trip to egypt in which he gave a very strong speech, went straight to the university, the central teaching authority and he really challenged those there to teach religious tolerance. he has really focused a lot on the persecution of christians and other minority religions. president trump also has really

focused on the persecution of christians on the beheadings and church bombings and many such things. vice president pence of course called this genocide, president obama's state department also labeled this genocide. there are many areas of agreement, i think those will be the focus of today's meeting. >> there has been an uptick of violence against christian and the region. of the violence, the hostility towards christians, that is something the pope feel strongly about. that is an issue that i believe these two will come to an agreement on. this is something i think the two of them would like to come away from and say "here's an idea." here's how we can try to eradicate the radical religious beliefs that are causing all of these senseless deaths among

millions of christians around the world. >> leland: we've seen the pope not only speak about put himself in the middle of this. he went to egypt and met with christians are there in the past two weeks or so, that is a population that has been under more than threats, under oppression and violence and suicide bombing throughout egypt. of the pope went there to make that point that you just made about the severe distress that christians in the middle east are in, christians in iraq don't have a place to go, in syria they have been run out by isis. finding christians who have been told "you got an hour to get out before isis comes and slaughters all of you." this is a real point of agreement between president trump and pope francis, even the travel ban that we've talked about, the original travel ban that pope francis talked about and wasn't too fond of.

at the same time, president trump and his administration tried to put in preferential treatment for christian refugees and those who had faced religious persecution as christians. they may come at this issue of how to prevent religious persecution a little bit differently. president trump wanted to use the hard power, pope francis wanting to have a coming together or peaceful resolution to this issue. it's something that they both care about deeply. >> how amazing is that there is somebody in the world, whether you are catholic or not who can have a voice of moral reasoning. most of the people we are watching right now are not catholic. i think all of us are grateful that no matter if this was your president or not, if this was your choice for president or not, how amazing is it that our

president is going to speak to somebody who is not involved in politics and who has a very highly respected voice of moral reasoning. we all need that. president trump is getting that right now. >> leland: just so our viewers have an idea what's going on, we are getting a tour from the vatican television. we do not have control of these pictures and the audio coming in. getting a tour of the vatican has pope francis in the president or in a room by themselves with two translators. to meet for the first time, president trump is the 13th u.s. president to meet a pontiff there in vatican city. they've been inside that room for just about 20 minutes from when we saw the door close after the greeting. you don't how long these meetings go, we've seen president trump take far longer in these meetings then whatever

scheduled. if there is somebody he develops a report or personal relationship with. who enforces that, how do you say to the president and the pope, you guys have to get up. >> julie: i think they are supposed to end this by 9:30 a.m. local time, they went into this at 8:30, they've been meeting for about 20 minutes. if the meeting should come to a close by 9:30. president trump will eventually be meeting with the italian president, they are under a tight schedule. he has a lot of meeting schedule for today. this was certainly the most anticipated and greatest one, this is the very first time as we mentioned earlier, that a president not only made saudi arabia the first up on his trip, saudi arabia, israel, and now here in rome and the vatica vatican. it's a significant message he is trying to send, i believe he is also trying to show a message of

unity across the board between three different religions, we are talking about the jewish faith, islam, the muslim faith. and the christian faith. what do you think is trying to achieve? >> leland: i think it's so ironic and so beautiful that this man, donald trump who was not known for being a person of religion is really getting an amazing religious tour not only of christianity, but as you mentioned as well, the jewish faith, muslim faith, i love the fact that donald trump went to the church of the holy sepulchre, which most presidents do not go to. he went to the very place where christians believe jesus rose from the dead. donald trump went in there together with his daughter who is jewish and jared kushner, they went into that place and now he is with the pope and the vatican.

i just want to make one small comment about the timing. there is hard out, 9:30, but the meeting is only scheduled to go until 9:00. they could go a little bit over that. but if they come out in the next few minutes, that will be pretty much as expected. that doesn't mean that the got cut short. they were scheduled for half an hour but there was a little bit of leeway. for the pope to start his general audience that he does every wednesday and for president trump to get on with his other meetings. >> leland: i make a point of another arguing with the priest, just to talk about -- 8:30 a.m. is when the meeting was supposed to start. the president and the pope, expanded group meeting. in what should be omitted if

they are on schedule is when we will see rex tillerson, ivanka, jared, h.r. mcmaster, some of the rest of the presidents traveling group head in for this expanded meeting to happen. we should see the proverbial door open and watch that group that we've seen milling around outside head end, pictures right now, the swiss guard standing in the vatican city. that is the picture just outside the door. the president's staff is outside, this meeting has been going on for 25 minutes. >> you did a good job of not arguing with the priest. >> julie: i just want to point something out, when you notice that melania trump walked into the vatican, i'm not sure if anybody saw it, but she was wearing a headscarf, ivanka was also wearing some sort of cover on her head.

what's the significance of that? >> that's called the veil, it is the established custom when visiting the pope in rome, that women be dressed in dark clothing and wear a veil, it is a sign of respect. it is not a law but a custom and they are observing that. it is part of the going back and catholic tradition to st. paul about women covering their heads and churches. that was the common practice up until 1965 that women would wear a head veil at mass. it's a sign of respect that custom continues, a sign of showing this religious leader that they are going to observe those customs. >> julie: it was interesting that they do not wear headscarves when they were in saudi arabia during that key saudi arabia speech. this was obviously preplanned, they were decisions made as to their attire.

when they go on these trips, everybody is watching every single move. do you make anything of that? the fact that -- they are not the first, many politicians, many dignitaries, many first ladies have not worn headscarves as traditional in muslim countries. i just wanted your feedback on that. >> the headscarf in public is basically a statement regarding islamic views toward how women should present themselves in public and the christian understanding of that is complete different. we do not think that women are being immodest if they show their hair, what's happening in the pontifical palace is related to that earlier custom in catholicism, attending mass wearing a veil, that is extended to attending the pope. there is nothing political or social control mechanism at play here, just a sign of respect. >> leland: we are going to

bring back and father jonathan, we are getting some guidance from john roberts, our chief white house correspondent, what typically the pope gives to the president and the momento of his visit. there is a medallion related to peace that is going to present at some time, and three of his writings. if you can take it through with the czar and perhaps what they mean that the pope is going to present to the president. >> these are free letters, the first is called the joy of the gospel, this was the first significant piece of writing that pope francis gave out to the public, which he tried to put positive, joyful faith on the gospel. saying to live the gospel means to experience the joy of god in your life. the second one is called in latin -- that is a little bit

controversial, it talks about the environment. >> leland: it looks as though we are looking at the picture of melania trump in a larger meeting, do we know if that's the meeting that the pope is in as well or is this a premeeting to that larger meeting? i don't to the pope there. >> i believe this is as they are waiting for pope francis and donald trump and president trump to finished our meeting. the last one, the carer of the environment. the most recent document in which the holy father talked about family life, some controversy there, that was created, pope francis has no problem delving into controvers controversy. about the family and about the relationship for example of divorced and remarried catholics and as they relate to the church and the sacrament. >> leland: the president will

have quite the reading material for the flight home. as you remember, the prime minister of israel presented him with a very special bible, a history of the middle east. >> julie: i want to bring in now aaron delmore, she is a senior political responded at bustle.com. politics of course, still going to play a role. we will be talking policy of course, and religion is not some thing that a head of state discusses with the pope. if policy were to come to the forefront, what do you believe would be the important topic that these two gentlemen will be discussing? >> hi, julie. obviously president trump and pope francis had famously clashed over issues like immigration, migration, climate change, but i don't expect we

will see anything but smiling faces when they come out of this meeting. they can bond about uniting nations, fighting extremism, they can talk about peace and how they can work together to achieve that end. >> julie: as far as what is actually being said behind closed doors, we will get some information coming out of the white house. of the vatican release a statement going through what they will be talking about. most recently, the speech he gave in saudi arabia, he did try to extend his message. to a very large community. 15 different muslim countries, he continues on to israel where he obviously wanted to show our allies and the jewish faith our support. the fight against the palestinians,