the ultimate sacrifice, we salute you, and thank you. thank you for joining us. we'll see you back here tomorrow night at 7:00 p.m. eastern time. be sure to catch me every day an noon eastern on "outnumbered." i am sandra smith and for martha maccallum tonight. enjoy the rest of your memorial day weekend. tucker carlson is up next. ♪ >> tucker: is not happening? how are these freedoms being preserved on campus. if special hour-long edition of campus craziness. n no campus represents the shift more vividly than uc berkeley. in the '60s, berkeley was the heart of the free speech movement. now, things are very different. troy worden is a student at

berkeley, also works as a correspondent for campus reform, we talked to him recently by the current intellectual climate at his school. >> tucker: you went and spoke to the antifascists. what did you say when you talked to them? >> tucker, thank you for having me on, i just want to let my story be known. i went to this meeting because i wanted to have these antifascists own up to the violence they perpetrated unpermitted against our club. and i quite frankly called them out. i asked them to simply condemn the violence that haste been perpetrated against the berkeley college republicans. their response was, quite frankly, very disappointing. they failed to even acknowledge that it occurred. the person, the leader of refused fascism, samsara taylor, said that she didn't even know of the occurrences. this is completely unacceptable because i have gone on the media multiple times. she has been on this programes before. and i have written about this on campusreform.com multiplee times. we have had members punched in the face, we have had members

spat at, pepper sprayed. i was almost beat up during them february 1st milo yiannopoulos riots. she refused to acknowledge them and actually said not all violence is equal. she suggested to her supporters that in some cases, violence is completely acceptable if someone disagrees with you. >> tucker: she said the same >> tucker: she said the same thing on the show pretty clearly. do you get any sense that they are calling themselves antifascists ironically? here you have people dressed in costumes committing violence against people whose ig politics they disagree with and they are antifascists. [laughs] are they serious when they say that? >> well, partly, but also, partly not. these groups are receiving funding from persons such as george soros. quite frankly, this is exactly the kind of line that they are going to pull because it is going to get them a lot of funding from very liberal donors. so, if they take a very strong stance against mr. trump and his supporters, and they label them fascists, and they go onto the streets and commit politicalis

terrorism, physically intimidate and verbally intimidate conservative students on campuses and other trump supporters in the streets, then, i think it is the best way for them to receive the amount of funding they want. >> tucker: grotesque that anyone would be funding political violence but peoplet are, as we noted often on this show. t what is berkeley, as an institution, doing to protect you? they are all about safe space. your space does not seem very safe to me. >> that is ironic. the berkeley college republicans have never and will never ask for a safe space. but many other groups have, black lives matter, for instance. s they blocked white students specifically from going to class in protest. they had a whole list of demands, including safe spaces. the berkeley college republicana have simply asked the city of berkeley, the administrators of the university of california berkeley, and the uc police department to simply protect our rights, give us the proper

amount of personnel, and security, and instead of doing that, they slapped a very large security fee on us, usually over $5,000 for a conservativey speaker. then, when rioters do show up, when violence is perpetrated, when threats of violence are made, they either have their security and police and peacef officers stand down or, in fact, they cancel our event even before we are able to put them on. so, in all of these cases, youe have seen high profile, even low profile conservative speakers prevented from speaking on campus because the university is too cowardly to defend their mantle, the mantle they proudly proclaim every chance they get, which is the birthplace of the free speech movement. like i wrote on the night of february 1st, i said, the free speech movement is dead. the very birthplace of the free speech movement is also its grave. >> tucker: i don't have anything to add to that other than, how old are you? >> i am 21. i just turned 21.

>> tucker: man. i was nowhere near as articulate or as brave as you are when i was 21. thank you for joining us. i appreciate it. >> thank you, tucker. >> tucker: uc berkeley may be the most visibly nutty campus but that mania has spread just about everywhere in the country. a lot of students on the show from all over with pretty remarkable ideas about how they ought to conduct themselves on campus, from vandals to socialists or segregationists, here are some of our favorite student guests from the past few months. >> you need to be allowed to say what you think. and what you think doesn't have to be popular or constructive or polite for you to be allowed to say it.av you have an absolute right to express your views. period. okay, that would include whiteboards? it's kind of simple. >> the idea of freedom of speech is essential to our country. that's literally what our country was founded on. the idea that you can disagree with somebody -- >> tucker: why not stand up? standing up -- >> there is a difference between

you expressing a view and providing intimidation and harassment to another student. e >> tucker: if you are going to ban whiteboards, why stop there? why not ban pens and keyboards and other instruments of divergent opinion and just sort of suppressed speech and everyone would be happy? you are pretty articulate with a precise command of the language. presumably in an article this long, you could explain what action, what form that would take. in this case, you say it takes flipping cars over. someone paid for those cars. those aren't your cars. to destroy someone else's property to make your political point isn't really a valid path is it? >> first of all, they flipped cars -- second of all, tucker, i think -- it's an article. i exaggerated. i am trying to explain what i think i actually mean by political action that doesn't consist of sanitized or moderated q and a sessions orese institute of politics.

>> tucker: can you name a single example where a speaker has been physically prevented from speaking by conservative students? >> i know basically that barack obama and alice walker have been sort of denied or at least -- >> tucker: no, they were not stopped from speaking. nobody put their bodyguards in the hospital, nobody threw rocks against the building or pounded on the windows. conservative students have not, that i'm aware of, have stopped any speaker. yet, you see it, your piece doesn't say any word about that. i wonder why. i would defend the right of anybody i disagree with and you ought to, too. especially, as a college student, i think you are still a college student. >> i'm a graduate student and i teach. >> tucker: you teach, then, you are in a world that was created specifically to protect people who have nonmainstream opinions. >> that space does not protect everybody. let's be clear about that. >> tucker: apparently it doesn't. people you disagree with..

>> do you think that would go well? if somebody wanted to go speak on a college campus -- >> tucker: that happens all the time. [laughs] >> really? i really want to know where does anybody -- >> tucker: have you went to a black lives matter protest? [laughs] >> i would never put black lives matter -- if they advocated the killing of police officers.rs [chanting]g] >> tucker: so, if i were to go to a rally, and people said ---- i'm just pulling us out of thin air -- "pigs in a blanket, fry like bacon" about police officers, advocating the killing of cops. you would say that is unacceptable, that is what you're saying? >> i'm saying that if studentsut want to have a discussion about police brutality -- >> tucker: if they were to use that phrase, "pigs in a blanket> fry like bacon" -- >> i am not interested in the phrase.

>> tucker: you have no principles. everything that you have beenou saying is totally untrue. >> i thought i would get the same respect from you. >> tucker: you are basically saying the flag represents evil to the extent that it shouldn't be flown. my question is, why is it always rich kids who make that point? why is it always kids from a $62,000 a year college like hampshire making that point? what about the workers who you claim to be representing ever say, that you never see anybody in a trade school burning the american flag?nt have you noticed that? i'm not making this up in my mind, am i? >> i think that you are more likely to pick up a story in which rich kids do burn a flag on the basis that we have more access to the media. the flag burning -- >> tucker: really? -- your average repair school, burning a flag? f >> you and me both know the politics in this country are divided by class. >> tucker: what if a bunch of straight white kids got together and said we feel oppressed by people like you, sean, and we need our own a student sponsored school paid for room together with straight white guys.

would you say, i get that, that is okay? >> given what we have aroundgh suicide, and the limited space that we have in our community, there are other ways that space can be used. >> tucker: no, in other words, it's the double standard. certain races get their own rooms and others don't. >> what i'm saying is we are reacting to needs and providing support for communities that have demonstrated -- >> tucker: what you are using is using imprecise academic talk to dodge my question.ke >> i can't think of anything more real than suicide, tucker.. >> tucker: i'm not denying the reality of suicide. i am contesting your assumption of what causes suicide. >> you don't think that isolationism causes suicide? >> tucker: i don't know what isolationism is. >> cutting yourself off, notis feeling like you have a community. there are differences among these communities -- >> tucker: let's get deeper here. you are saying that people are more comfortable, maybe havees better mental health, when they are around people who are just like them? and i am saying, it's true but

it's a radical thing to say because that of course, again, was what the people who supported segregation said. there was massive unemploymentit of the middle of the country, massive, a higher rate than during the great depression. if you bring in more workers, h would there be more or lessio employment? there would be less employment. more people competing for fewer jobs. this is basic economics. how can you as a socialist be for that? >> what we need is jobs programs. the reality is, appointing a ceo -- the reality is is that appointing a ceo of goldman sachs as our -- >> tucker: you are not answering. look, i'm taking you seriously and you are reporting dumb liberal talking points. be a socialist, be a liberal. open your mind. i'm serious. >> tucker: you are upset about the same boring rich people topics. look at the economics of it. >> tucker: secretary of education betsy devos tried to honor students at a florida university. she got a mountain of boos for

her trouble. up next, we will talk to theoo professor who says she should have been attacked because she is a tool of white power.ha and betsy devos' experience was hardly unique. notre dame students walked out from the vice president, we will talk about why graduation has become a political event. ♪ instead of allergy pills. it delivers a gentle mist experience to help block six key inflammatory substances. most allergy pills only block one. new flonase sensimist changes everything. only new tena intimates has ♪ it'pro-skin technologyiend designed to quickly wick away moisture to help maintain your skin's natural balance. for a free sample, call 1-877-get-tena. [ rock music playing ] have fun with your replaced windows. run away!

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♪ >> tucker: it's become an annual tradition, one of the worst ones. every spring, schools hold

graduations, plenty of democrats, but almost no republicans are invited to spear and the republicans who do show up are booed. secretary of education betsy devos learned that early y when she was booed out bethune-cookman's graduation. he has denounced secretary devos as representative of b white power in the united states. we spoke to professor nichols recently. here is the conversation. >> tucker: thanks for joiningg us tonight. why were you upset that betsy devos spoke before these students? >> so, i wasn't upset at all, tucker, that she spoke before the students. i am a firm believer in the first amendment. i think she has a right to speak. my problem was that the community made a decision that she should not come, including 60,000 from the bc network saying they didn't want her here. i think commencement is a special event. particularly for students and families.

if they decide that they don't want her there, it shouldn't be a unilateral decision made by the president of the university. >> tucker: 60,000 people don't go to the school so i don't know who those people were. that is far more than actually attend the university. i don't know where you are getting that number or why you believe that that online survey speaks from the community, whatever that community is. did you poll every studentea there? >> i did not poll every studenti i looked at -- well, in terms of the student body, we saw how they reacted. they used their first amendment right, which was to protest. i think when we get to 60,000, i talked about the community that not only students, alumni, faculty past and present, that is staff past and present. that is everybody who really cares about bcu and feels invested in what goes on there, particularly in commencement. >> tucker: of course, you don't know if any of that is true because it is an online i survey, so, it could be anybodyt let's not pretend we know exactly who these people are.

you may not like betsy devos or think she should have spoken. maybe the kids don't like her. i will take your word for it. here's what drew my attention to you. you wrote in a piece for "the hill" that having her there ignores the desires of black people, especially students. they don't matter in the face of green dollars and white power. what does betsy devos have to do with white power? >> so, she is a member of the trump administration, which has shown racial animus towards people of color, all over, and when we talk about white power, i want to be clear that white power is not really shaved heads and combat boots the way we think of white power. white power is social and political norms that generate disparities and help out causes in education and employment and wealth and criminal justice. when we talk about white power, we are talking about a system, something that is systemic. when we are talking about

betsy devos -- >> tucker: you are just another tenured demagogue who doesn't know anything that he is talking about. betsy devos is a living human being. white power, whatever that is. let's not tar heard by association. is every black employee of the administration -- what are you talking about? i'm sick of this. >> [laughs] allow me to tell you what it is that i am talking about. >> tucker: good. >> in terms of betsy devos and her connection, why the students would be upset, number one, she wants to cut $4 billion from pell grants. students receive pell grants, we know african-american students at large are more likely to receive them because they are more likely to be poor, actually, three times as likely as white students. she also wants to end student loan forgiveness for people who are in service. these are all things that are going to affect african-american students. but if we are talking about the trump administration -- >> tucker: they also affect students of every --

hold on. >> absolutely. okay, we don't have to talk about it. >> tucker: we are talking about policies that are federal law and therefore, they affect everyone. regardless of what he looks like. they are not inherently racial, okay? >> that is where you are wrong. >> tucker: no, they are not. there's nothing about race in pell grants and there's nothing about race in debt forgiveness. if you are using that line of logic, you are saying good if i am opposed to you on policy issues, i'm a racist or i support white power. >> that is not what i'm saying, tucker. >> tucker: what are you saying? >> what i am saying -- i've already said what white power is and i believe -- >> tucker: we are talking about betsy devos. >> disproportionately, things that disproportionately affect people of color. if you want to talk about the trump administration at large. >> tucker: hold on, why does it mean she should stop? i'm trying to be patient, if we want to have a debate about pell

grants, that is legitimate.to i might agree. it is when you start calling people bigots that you end then conversation. as a professor, i think you would -- rather than cast aspersions and shut down, which is what i think you are doing. >> tucker, i'm wondering where it is that i called betsy devos, individually, a bigot? please tell me where that is. i don't remember. >> tucker: you said that she spoke because of white power. my point is, look, you may disagree with her view on pell grants -- >> i never called her a bigot. >> tucker: that is exactly -- let's not be coy here. you wouldn't use that phrase, i would never use that phrase, unless you are calling someone a bigot because that is what it is. >> i don't think that's what it is.ne i think it is saying that thee school -- as a matter of fact,t, it wasn't even a critique on ms. devos herself. as i said earlier, i'm a firm believer in the in the first amendment to the constitution. i think she had every right to speak. i think she could have done what

dr. carson did when he was -- >> tucker: no one is contesting the right to speak. you are not contesting the right to speak and i'm not either. you are just saying that she shouldn't have because she's ont the wrong side of pell grants and white supremacy and whitein power got her there. i'm saying, look, you totally eliminate the possibility of a reasonable conversation when you say nonsense like this that you can't even define, you clearly don't understand, you are telling people to shut up. >> i think i clearly defined it for you.in i am not sure if you were listening, tucker. >> tucker: intently. >> i think i defined it for you. >> tucker: okay. i don't understand. i hope you will come back and fill me in. i appreciate you coming on. >> absolutely. >> tucker: thank you. >> tucker: sociologist charles murray recently tried to give a speech at middlebury college. you may remember what happened next. [boos] joining us after the break, former education secretary bill bennett will describe what these

meltdowns say about modern campuses. ♪ ♪ pressure. i feel it everyday. but at night, it's the last thing on my mind. for 10 years my tempur-pedic has adapted to my weight and shape, relieving pressure points from head to toe. so i sleep deeply and wake up ready to perform. ♪ now through june 11th,

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ostriches don't really stick vitheir heads in the sand.ve horns on their helmets. and a real john deere is actually real affordable. you learn something new everyday. the surprisingly affordable john deere e series tractors. >> good evening, i am kelly wright with a fox news update from america's news >> their reports a major white house staff overhaul is in the works. the president vowing to deal

with those in his own administration that i've put a national security at risk by leaking classified information. at some of the information touches on the russian investigation. the president's son-in-law, jared kushner proposed a secret back channel with the kremlin during the transition period. vladimir putin is a bigger threat to global security than ices terrorists, so says republican senator john mccain senator john mccain. mccain also believes the russians are trying to influence other elections, including the french election earlier this month. i am kelly wright, back to "tucker carlsons tonight" ." ♪ >> tucker: sociologist charles murray book "coming apart" may be the most single most important book in print describing the rise of donald trump, in other words, college students could learn something from it. and listening to him.

but instead, when he tried to speak at middle middlebury college in march -- another professor was so intimidated by the mob, he apologized for inviting him at all. we recently spoke to theat secretary of education in ronald reagan's administration, bill bennett, about what happened. >> tucker: this does seem, one of a million examples, but it seems particularly illustrative because middlebury is a serious school. b it is a famous school, well-regarded. hard to get into. it is very expensive. here, you have a professor who has learned exactly the wrong lesson from what happened with the murray speech. are you surprised? >> i'm not surprised. that's what goes on at places like middlebury and we have seen it at other campuses.'m the odd thing is to me, i know charles murray very, very well. there isn't a more civilized human being. if you read his book, "coming apart," the professors ate middlebury read it, said it is a middle-of-the-road approach to things. but because murray wrote the

bell curve, stratification, they would not let him speak. this is an outrage. let me get right to the point. can this stop? yes, if the people in charge, and the students were not in charge, i know it's cliche to say the inmates run asylum, the doctors are running the asylum, the doctors are the administration on the faculty and they are quacks and they need to stand up and say what the college or university is for. my only argument with charles that he shouldn't have stood there for so long. and don't think he should have stood there for an hour and taken it. where was the administrator who would step up and say, stop this, you will be arrested if you keep this up, you will bee expelled. this does happen, tucker, occasionally, at other campuses. ohio state, they handled it very well. at middlebury, they couldn't.oc you've got to wonder, what am i paying $50,000 a year for? >> tucker: exactly. not just the parents paying the tuitions, which a minority, lot of the schools, but the taxpayers subsidizing all of this. where is the -- if middlebury

remains so rich? >> there is not much incentive to change from the perspective of the parents. as i found out as secretary of education, they will pay almost anything to get a prestige degree. the only people who i think can do it in the short run are the board of trustees, if they have any sense of responsibility. t and the faculty. however, this bubble may burst. my friend at yale said it hasn't burst because of the absurdity of it all. plus, technology is coming in on the university. people are taking more and more courses online. people are starting to get educations online. peter thiel, we were talking about it earlier, he has enlisted students out of high school not to come to the university, but to come to a study in california where they work with each other and don'tom go to college, just develop their own ideas. alternatives are spreading out all over the place.

in the short run, couldn't we do this, tucker? if you have someone on campus with whom you disagree or a number of students that disagree, have someone with an opposing point of view give ant counter presentation or have a debate.an this is what happened to me. when i went to stanford to defend western civilization, they said, anybody around who can defend western civilization? anybody interested? i said, i will do it. i went out, they said, you must respond to critics. you must respond to the faculty. i went out, did an hour and a half with the faculty after my r speech. that is the way to do it.ha don't shout them down. here you are, it's absurd, show it to be absurd by your own argument. >> tucker: that is the premise of the show. legitimate debate. >> you would think especially on a campus of university. a free marketplace of ideas. this is what is supposed to be. i always think, a great line, one of the tutors at st. john's college, she said, these little republics are dependent upon this larger republic and its principals.he and those principles are, as we

know, a free exchange of ideas. >> tucker: in the meantime, before this happens, should conservative parents opt out of this whole cycle of seekingfo prestige degrees for their kids? >> it would be a good idea but it's very hard to tell parents to do that, particularly when the neighborhoods that you and i know about, they enroll kids -- i overheard this conversation -- in preschool at four years old, saying, it's a feeder to harvard? it is a feeder to harvard. people seek prestige. as a sociologist will tell you, this is one of the things most sought after after people satisfy their basic material needs, status.s. >> tucker: people would live outside if they had enough prestige. >> imagine -- that's right. >> tucker: dr. bill bennett, thanks for joining us. >> thank you very much. >> tucker: up next, we playy our epic showdown with the t professional berkeley protester who believes political views ought to be resolved with violence. plus, she couldn't help herselff from bashing her political

opponents during a recent commencement address. we'll talk about why you can't escape politics on graduation day. ♪ day. hey, the future, what's her problem? apparently, i kept her up all night. she said the future freaks her out. how come no one likes me, jim? intel does! just think of everything intel's doing right now with artificial intelligence. and pretty soon ai is going to help executives like her see trends to stay ahead of her competition. no more sleepless nights. - we're going to be friends! - i'm sorry about this. don't be embarrassed of me, jim. i'm getting excited about this! we know the future. we're going to be friends! because we're building it. [ rock music playing ] have fun with your replaced windows. run away! [ grunts ] leave him! leave him! [ music continues ] brick and mortar, what?! [ music continues ]

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♪ >> tucker: some people aren't content just to shout down campus speakers to disagree with. others prefer to get right to the point and use meetings to resolve their political disagreements. yvette felarca was caught doing just that. >> [bleep]. >> [bleep] you! c >> please! >> stand down! >> tucker: shortly after that took place, we had felarca on the show. kind of an amazing experience. >> tucker: just so we can understand the standard here,

what is a fascist? >> so, a fascist someone who is organizing a vast movement, attacking women, immigrants, black people, other minority groups in in the movement of genocide. that is what a fascist is. >> tucker: it is someone who is committing violence? >> someone who is committing violence and trying to organize other people to commit violence. milo yiannopoulos is a fascist. >> tucker: okay. so, he has committed acts of violence against the protected groups you mentioned? >> what he is doing, he is trying to be the face and a token that other people who are organizing violence tried to hide behind. in all of his talks all over the country, what yiannopoulos has done his whip up a whole lynch mob mentality, where people who come to see him or his supporters, not only agree with his views, but also attack otheo people. that was certainly true in washington state, when one of his supporters came and actually shot an antifascist protester.te but in berkeley, we made sure that didn't happen because we were able to shut him down. >> tucker: so -- you are

conceding that milo himself hash not committed acts of violence nor has he incited violence by the legal definition. he'd be in jail if he had. because people have who agree with him have committed an act of violence, he should not be allowed to speak? >> a fascist movement takes many forms. it always helps to have one form that is respectable in a little bit milder. milo yiannopoulos is not a stand-up comedian and he is not someone who because of ideas one youtube. he is funded by breitbart and steve bannon to go to college campuses to recruit young people to make those attacks on his behalf and trump's behalf. i'm really, really glad to say that thousands of us are out there last week or on february 1st, and made sure that there were thousands of us to make sure that we defended our campus, this community, and especially, the immigrant muslim students who were under attack and have been under attack by him and other fascists. >> tucker: by using violence -- you don't shy awayn from that by any means

necessary, it's the name of your group. it implies violence. what should we do with fascists? if you think that someone is espousing genocide, why should we do with them? showed that person be allowed to walk free?o should we put them in jail?ut should we kill them? exile them? if this is -- if you are willing to use violence, what is the penalty for that? >> firstly, you have to make sure that you nip it in the bud. you have to make sure that they are not allowed to recruit. and act as if it's respectable to call for a mass murder of millions of people. >> tucker: just to be clear, milo yiannopoulos is not -- he has not ever said that in public, anyway, not that we have a record of. there is no evidence that he has called for the genocide of anyone, as you know.w. but you are saying, by transference in some way, he inspires people who believe that, i guess. but you are not getting my question. what should you nip in the bud? should he be allowed to go on the subway and talk to the guy next to him about perhaps joining his movement or should he be allowed to talk to people in restaurants? what should we do with thein

fascists who you say are inspiring genocide? >> first of all, the alt-rightht is a neofascist movement. they are trying to hide behind y some softer versions of their more open counterparts who identify themselves as nazis. but they are still part of the same movement. first of all.. second of all, when someone is trying to speak at a campus or at a rally, they are doing it not just because they have an opinion, but because someone that milo yiannopoulos or alt-right or a fascist or neofascist is doing it to recruit other people.om no, we don't let them recruit.to in fact, when you look back at the holocaust and the lessons we draw from that, we don't say, oh, at least we let them voice their opinions. we say "never again." >> tucker: when we say that, we elevate people like dietrich bonhoeffer or members of the plot against the leader of nazi germany to kill him. so, that was the response, of course, to the leader of that fascist movement. most people think it is legitimate. you are not answering my question. do you think that people like milo, who you decided our fascists, should be allowed to speak in public?

you said they were not allowed to speak at berkeley. should he be allowed to speak on the street corner? >> he should not be allowed to spread his racist and misogynistic and homophobic lies. no, he does not have the righted to do that. you know what? in sacramento, there were fascists who had knives tired at the end of sticks and they stabbed people -- >> tucker: not the man that you hit. [laughs] >> actually, they did.ca it's funny to you but it's actually not funny to the rest of us. it's -- we take it really seriously. >> tucker: i know you take it seriously.y. i'm going to ask you a simple question. i believe you.u. oh, i believe you are serious. >> we are talking about people who are trying to kill and murder people and who have already done it. >> tucker: i got it. >> they are creating a hostile environment on these campuses il order to do that, no, that is not a safe environment for immigrant students. that's not a safe environment for women are muslim students or transit students. >> tucker: okay. [laughs] f

one last question, if i may. if you are -- i just want to know, the protocol for antifascist acts like this. if you are standing on a street corner and some us are saying something you don't like and you think, that is a act ofe hostility, that person is a s fascist -- >> you are misrepresenting the words that i am saying. this is not ben and jerry's versus stone cold pizza or something. this is the lives of real people, immigrants who are under attack -- >> tucker: i got it. and i am asking you, how deep is your commitment -- >> you are trivializing it. >> tucker: to what extent would you go to stop that person from spreading genocidal propaganda? would you -- >> counter protest, stand up, and to shut down -- >> tucker: what do you mean by shut down? what if i want to keep talking? i'm saying something that you find appalling but i have a first amendment right. i am an american. what do you do?

what do you do next? >> the first amendment -- you want to talk about the first amendment? the letter wasn't allowed to be read on the floor of the senate last week under the constitution. yet, at the same time -- trying to defend someone like a fascist, speaking at a college campus. >> tucker: i don't want to abridge your speech rights. thanks for coming on. dozens of kids at notre dame university walked out on the vice president rather than listen to him talk. that is a terrifying prospect. up next, we'll talk to michaeld walked in about why politics has invaded even commencement speeches. ♪ invaded even commencement

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♪ >> tucker: college commencements are supposed to be a celebration of achievement. of course, students get their diplomas and most colleges bring a famous person to lend some prestige for the affair. that's the idea, anyway. now, commencement or an excuse for political grandstanding, a lot of it. as the vice president and education secretary learned this spring. >> not the warmest of welcomessi are vice president mike pence at the university of notre dame, ad dozens of seniors walk out of their own graduation ceremony during his keynote address today. >> no one in this country is above the law. and we need a justice department, not an obstruction of justice department. >> education secretary betsy devos gave the commencement speech today at historically black bethune-cookman university in florida. there were boos and heckling throughout that ceremony. >> as i said, i am very grateful for the opportunity to be withg

you today. >> tucker: how did commencement become just another political venue? is any part of american life now a political venue this day? michael, thanks a lot for coming on. >> thanks for having me. i am here in the los angeles republican satellite bunker. it's weird. [laughs] >> tucker: [laughs]] i bet it is weird. >> they ask you a series off questions about ronald reagan before you get in. >> tucker: [laughs] how would you feel if you are graduating from college and some creepy, mediocre politician shows up and starts giving a floor speech? >> i think we should get away, disregard commencement speeches altogether. it has become a joke. it is all political. a commencement speech, the person gets up there and they give you, here is some advice on how to carry on with the rest of your life. it is about when you are supposed to be learning the last four years? isn't that what you paid all that money for? >> tucker: that's a good point. if you haven't figured it out by

that point maybe it's a little late. >> [laughs] it is. i will tell you, just the reaction, i love that those kids walked out of mike pence. i think that's great.. those are more kids that won't be competing with my kids for jobs. like, walk directly out. w you are unprepared for reality. go directly across the street to your new job, where you can be proud. "i walked out of mike pence." that is great, that is very proud. when the burger comes out of here, you'll put the cheese on here and put it on a bun. you are good to go.r >> tucker: that's for certain. [laughs] it does raise a question, is there anyplace you can go in america where you are not bombarded by somebody else's politics? you can't flip on espn and watch a game without getting a lecture about something. and you can't go to an address. >> i think you just have to carry on. and i do have two kids and i'm going to get them out of college. it is obviously not preparing anyone for the future.

the one thing it is supposed to do, this whole thing is this n big, beautiful, almost like a government run mafia scam. they are like, hey, you needs college, kid, i will give you a loan. you can go to college. then, they come out of this, like, giant four year summer camp where they are totallyy mentally reprogrammed, not prepared for the future, and they are in a mountain of debt. it's like a reverse game show. "hey, johnny, show him what he owes." >> tucker: [laughs] that is such a good point. what is the point? why perpetuate what is so obviously a scam? >> it will go away. that is the great thing about capitalism. i will tell you what, i'm trying to talk both of my kids into being welders. [laughs] that is something they can learn. but why would you incur this giant mountain of debt, oh, i have got my degree in gender fluid squirrel poetry? what are you going to do? will you rule the world with

that? they don't want to hear from reality. i think we just have to circle our wagons and ride out this madness because obviously, facts don't matter, the truth doesn't matter, and if anything, i would tell these kids before going to college, why don't you go on a road trip? go spend a year in venezuela. you can find a safe space where you are trying to dig a banana peel out of the garbage so you can eat. [laughs] >> tucker: sounds great. >> then, come back and we will talk about safe spaces. >> tucker: what did you make of betsy devos getting booed? the education secretary. >> i will tell you what. why she took that gig, i don't know. betsy needs a new agent. here is where you succeed, like will ferrell sings, hillary clinton recently just told people what they want to hear, that is all you can do. betsy devos should have held up a giant check and showed how much money she made, popped some champagne, and walked out and let some jay-z music play. she just mic dropped, walked out

like a boss. i love the hillary clinton one. that was great the other day. i don't know if you saw that. she was like, i have been drinking chardonnay and reorganizing my closet. i bet she was reorganizing her closet. the skeleton goes here, that one goes there. hey, bill, remember my plan for socialized medicine? it's in this box. >> tucker: i would like to picture that happening in the post presidential bedroom in chappaqua. [laughs] that's hilarious. did you go to college? >> i did. i went to ohio state university. i found it to be a giant waste.. nothing happened fast enough. i left after two years. i was paying the bills, and i am like, you know what, i got to go. so, i handed the guy 10,000 bucks, he gave me a commencement speech and i was on my way. >> tucker: [laughs] you are a smart man! thanks for joining us. >> i graduated myself.e >> tucker: good for you.

i did the same. we'll be right back.>> ♪ here i am working my canister off to clean and shine and give proven protection against fading and aging. he won't use those copycat wipes. hi...doing anything later? ooh, the quiet type. i like that. armor all original protectant. it's easy to look good.

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remember mo-van-tik. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. >> tucker: that's all for tonight's special edition of campus craziness. we've gaze tonight the country's spaces, and angry children who'd rather riot than hear an idea they're unfamiliar with. we've highlighted the problem. that's nearly the first step. someone needs to fix it we'll look for ways to continue to do that going forward. that's for future nights and future guests. in the meantime, don't miss the regular nightly edition of this show we're here every weeknight 8:00 p.m. eastern with one commitment to be the show that's the propensity of lying, something youness. if you're not -- smugness. if you're not home, set your

dvr. good night from washington. m wa. ♪ >> kimberly: >> kimberly: i'm kimberly guilfoyle. it's 9:00 in new york city. and this is "the five." thank you for joining us. we hope you all enjoyed your holiday weekend. on this memorial day, we honor our fallen heroes who made the ultimate sacrifice to protect our freedom. you and your families are in our thoughts and prayers. we also want to thank the men and women currently serving in our armed forces. we pray for your safety and for your families. we are living in very dangerous