meddling in our election, why didn't he do that? go to facebook.com/hannity. that is all the time we have left. thank you for being with us. remember this show always fair, always balanced. see you back here tomorrow. >> tucker: welcome to tucker carlson. it's been pretty obvious for a while now, that the trump-russia story is essentially bogus. there are criticisms you can level at the trump administration, maybe few of this them. collaborating with vladimir putin isn't on the list. why are the other stupid news channels doing this? until this morning we could only speculate, we did. now we know for sure. james o'keefe's project released a video a cnn producer called john bonifield explained the entire deal and admitted the coverage was, quote, b.s.

>> the whole russia thing is (bleep). >> is it all xwleep bleep? mostly (bleep)? >> we don't of any giant proof. >> cnn is constantly russia this, russia that, why? >> it's ratings. >> ratings? >> our ratings are incredible. >> tucker: the rate rings incredible. never mind the core story is untrue or that it's a distraction from important events taking place in the world. or maybe most important it's hamstringing our foreign policy to the point where america's vital interests are suffering as a result. who cares? it's ratings gold. that's all that matters. according to bonifield jeff zucker, cnn president, ordered his reporters to get off real news and back to russia. it's a cash cow. >> so my boss, you i. shouldn't say. this my boss, yesterday, we were having a conversation. he said i just want you to know what we're up against here.

he said to give you context, president trump pulled out of the climate accord, and for a day and a half we covered the climate accord and the ceo of cnn said in our internal meeting, good job covering the climate accord. but we're done with that, limit's get back to russia. >> the ceo? >> yeah. >> oh my god. >> even the climate accord, okay, a day or so. but we're moving back to russia. >> tucker: good luck explaining something complicated bike science. in case you wonder if the tape is real, you might wonder, cnn is not contesting the ver rossity or backing away from it in anyway. a real news outlet might feel the need to explain itself pushing the bogus conspiracy. not cnn. instead they ish issued a statement. diversity of personal opinion is what makes cnn strong and we

welcome and embrace it. of course. diversity. say the word five times and all is forgiven. it's like magic. equivalent of the witch's spell. the irony, is that diversity of thought is what is missing in the american media at this moment. almost every reporter in washington is hot on the russia story. those who dissent are attacked as collaborators, with trump or putin himself. the result is to make everyone in the press dumber and more cred louse. yesterday, cnn had to fire three reporters after they published a go bogus story trying to connect anthony scaramucci with the russian government. it was thinly sourced and puffy. no other american news outlet caught it. in the thaend story was exposed by sputnik news, owned by the russian government ironically. the question is where were the watch dogs in our own press? they were hypnotized by their

own preconceptions. the story confirmed their biased. it's not just cnn. in december the "washington post" claimed russian intelligence had hacked our power grid in the country. that story was totally false in every detail. the "washington post" published it anyway. slate.com ran a piece claiming the trump organization had a secret server connection to russia. that turned out to be false, published anyway. reliable old c-span, the straightest news outlet in the world, great people there, still got caught up for a second in the red scare itself in january, they claimed to have been hacked by the russian media. never happened. part of this is just hysteria, the moment when you convince yourself that the monsters under your bed are real. but part of it is more sinister, to tell your viewers who they want to hear even though you know it's wrong. this is happening. they write about the media for the kill, he joins us tonight. this seems like a crisis point

for that network. this is back-to-back two vivid noncontested illustrations of editorial corruption. >> i don't think you're engaging in hyperbole. these last two stories that cnn got wrong, the first a couple of weeks ago with james comey supposed to refute donald trump when he said i'm not being investigated. james comey told me that three times. that story was wrong. i don't mind when get it wrong. but the problem as you said, thinly sourced as in only one source. you know how many reporters are on the byline of that story? four. 4-1 reporter to source ratio. you have this story, just from a couple of days ago, with scaramucci, a pulitzer winner working on that story along with two others. one course, three reporters, 3-1 ratio. to go to bat with just one unnamed source, again we talked about this, we don't know the source's motive, probably to

hurt the administration. they may have a motivation to lie. cnn got burned once, should have learned, got burned twice, people resigned and i don't think a crisis point is engaging in hysteria, you're right on. >> tucker: all of the mistakes are one direction. we all mick mistakes, i've made a ton of them. you hope they're honest mistakes. what bothers me, this is preventing coverage of anything else. if you dislike trump and the administration, there are plenty of stories you can do that would be critical of the white house. they're sticking with a story they know. this tape shows, some of them have no focus, this makes them the most money. that's wrong. >> you say it's preventing reporting on other stories. mrc, i get they're conservative, but nobody refutes their analysis or studies. they came up with this today, just stunning numbers. 353 minutes on the evening newscast since may 17 have been committed to russia or comey investigation. you know how manyments have been

dedicated to terrorism? very important topic that a lot of people voted on, 29 minutes. 353 versus 29. how about the economy? the number one issue that people vote on, how donald trump probably got in office considering michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, economic message and hillary clinton didn't. five whole minutes. trade, five whole minutes. you say we're missing other stories? damn right we are. >> tucker: it seems they're nor narrow-casting to a small percentage of people and decided this is our base, the advertising rates are going up, they're getting big numbers relative to what they normally get. this is a business decision seems like to me. >> be clear about that. cnn last quarter had its second highest watched quarter ever. congratulations. here's the problem. all other cable news networks are up as well. cnn despite being up year after year they're still in a distant third place in terms of total viewers in prime. distant third place -- not distant but in third place in

terms of the younger on demo that advertisers covet most. i want to quote chris murphy who is a senator from connecticut. he's a democratic senator. he takes the bus home sometimes, tucker, he wants to talk to people that don't go to political rallies, regular people that maybe aren't as involved with politics but still care. he says normally people don't call my office, don't write my office, i get on the bus and say i'll say they're never talking about issues like russia. they're not talking frankly about what's on cable news at night. they're talking about wages, education, and public safety. let's take a cue from a democratic senator, let's move on and talk about issues that people care about and want to be educated on. >> tucker: a weird ruling class obsession. thanks, joe. >> thank you. >> tucker: cnn is having problems with its russian narrative and apparently having trouble with elemental concepts like raise your hand and wait your turn before speaking o monday jim acosta, the white

house correspondent ignored those rules and repeatedly interrupted the press secretary at the white house. >> why are the cameras off? why aren't you turning them on? tell us why you turned the cameras off. tell us, sean. it's a legitimate question. you are paid by the taxpayers, member of the united states government. can you give us an explanation why the cameras are off. >> tucker: after that acosta went on cnn and complained about being ignored. >> sean spicer has refused to take questions from cnn for weeks now. it has been going on for some time. you know, he may have taken a question here or there over the last couple of weeks. we have largely been just blackballed during these briefings. we're not getting questions to the white house press secretary. that wouldn't have happened in previous administrations. >> tucker: brit hume spent a lot of time in the white house over the years, senior political

analyst at fox, and joins us now. i like an aggressive white house correspondent, i've craved aggressive. the description of turning off the cameras is like the end of dem sismt seems like maybe a call for perspective. >> i would say so. i remember during the clinton administration and previous administrations when on-camera briefings weren't the norm. the clinton administration tried it for a while, didn't like the results and went to a system where they had cameras and microphones at the top and shut down and the rest have the briefing proceeded. no reporter for a news organization as sizable as cnn should be relying on the briefings to get news. >> tucker: good point. >> the cnn correspondent can get their calls returned. "new york times," "washington post," fox news. we can get our calls returned at the white house. it's dozens and dozens of smaller news organizations that cover the white house on a daily basis and the briefing is there for them to give them a chance

to get a question, get it answered, and to learn the schedule for the day and the rest of it. you know, if you had a really good question that led somewhere, you'd never ask it in the briefing, you don't want to to the rest of the press corps who you're working on. >> tucker: it's theater. were you there for a long time for the networks, abc news. did you go to the briefing every day and shout questions? . i went as a rule. most of the time the briefings aren't very helpful. under any administration. with the best press secretary in my time was marlon fitswater for reagan and bush. but i usually had a crossword puzzle open in front of me. with the clinton administration they were so uninformative, i didn't go. these briefings have become, become a certain tv drama. but really not for the pup of information. no good reporter worth his or her salt would rely on the briefings to get the news. >> tucker: just for the record, the changes in the way this

white house is presenting the news to the white house press corps do they seem out of line with you, in general, do they seem -- >> i don't know what the day-to-day experience of reporters on the beat is. i'm not there any more. but the situation of the briefings seems to me is a side show. and the real question, there's something called the pool which is the sub set of the press corps that goes with the president because the white house is a small place, airplane is a small place, you can't take everybody and having them follow the president around everywhere. good question whether the pool is getting the access it wants. i understand the president leaves them behind, that's regrettable. there's no inconvenience to the president to having a group of reporters in toe, not as if they -- in to you, not as if they get to walk with him on the golf course. but by and large i don't think anybody terribly draconian seems to be happening to please freedom in the white house. >> tucker: when you're covering

the white house from the briefing room and there are cameras ple and you're a tv reporter, how powerful is the temptation to make it about you? >> well, it's a temptation that must be resisted because you don't want to advertise your best question. and i guess in this hot house atmosphere, with this antipathy toward this president,s strong as it is now, a form of virtue signalling to ask tough questions in the briefing. it seems to me, that there's no point in beating up on the briefer. if you want to ask tough questions, try asking the president. >> tucker: or call the guy. they'll take your call. >> they will take your call. it's a way. i asked the question in a press conference in the rhodes garden one time, ruth bader-ginsberg nomination announcement. president clinton had gone through an odd process where the white house let it be known one candidate was going to be the one, another, then settled to

ginsburg. and i skrublgd the process in my question, as a zig-zag process. i asked a question politely that suggested that people saw it as a zig-zag process and asked if he'd care to disabuse this notion. he got furious and closed down the news conference. celebrated event. these things can happen. i didn't do it to grand stand, it was a question you had to, ask the question on everybody's mind. you shouldn't ask questions to grandstand, you ask questions bau you want to know the answer. >> tucker: if that was provocative that, shows you how far we've come. >> you bet. >> tucker: russian hacking supposedly the greatest threat to american democracy since the world war. and we know the last president did basically nothing about it. why is that? we'll ask an advisor for the hillary clinton am pain next. last march, students at middle bury college in vermont got

violent to keep charles murray from speaking there. he has not spoken on television since then. we have we're going to talk to him tonight just ahead. just (burke) at farmers, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a coupe soup. [woman] so beautiful. [man] beautiful just like you. [woman] oh, why thank you. [burke] and we covered it, november sixth, two-thousand-nine. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

>> tucker: well the press in the democratic party have spent months telling us about how russian hacking altered the american election. it was an act of war. but this isn't based on any new revelations following november 6. rush yaz behavior was known last october. back then here's what then president barack obama had to say about the threat to the integrity of the election. >> there is no serious person

out there who would suggest somehow that you could even rig america's elections, in part because they're so decentralized. the numbers of votes involved. there's no evidence that that has happened in the past, or that there are instances in which that will happen this time. and so i'd advise mr. trump to stop whining and go try to make his case to get votes. >> tucker: every night i thank god for the geniuses in our tape library and our long memories. so nice. to be reminded what happened. what changed? the facts? or the reality of the democratic party. tonight's reality is now richard the democratic strategist from the clinton campaign, joins us tonight. you heard the former president say you would have to be an idiot to think that russia could alter the election outcome.

he knew his party would remain in power, or thought so. >> i think the single most damning thing that's come out during this whole russia talk was james comey saying not once in the nine times he talked to donald trump, did trump ever ask about what happened with russia. it's reminiscent of o.j. not asking the police what happened to nicole. he knew. now, i don't know where trump was -- >> tucker: you're the last person in d.c. that believes president trump was colluding with russia? >> what i believe is testimony that we need to have taken publicly, from the figures, that hasn't happened yet. we should move on? it's frankly, i understand that you want to move on. >> tucker: i'm not here to suggest that. i'm here to ask you, shouldn't president obama be among the peep whose testimony we hear? >> sure. i bet you won't hear anything differently than what he agonized over, which is, look, he told putin face-to-face knock it off.

we can debate whether that had any effect or not. the intelligence agencies had the mistake of coming out with their conclusion that the russians were trying to meddle on the day of the access hollywood tape. poor planning. >> tucker: i don't understand this, you can't argue simultaneously that it was an act of war, it was sub version of -- >> dick cheney said that. >> tucker: as big a deal as 9/11 or pearl harbor. and at the same time, argue that not a big deal as president obama argued in october of the election year. if this was really going on why the hell didn't he do anything about it, tell the public about it, why lie about it in the way that he just did. the fact of the matter is, there is a hypocrisy, you have to confess that donald trump receiving stolen goods -- >> tucker: wait, wait, that's fine. answer my question. why wouldn't president obama, president of the united states, have this information that you are spun up about, why would he withhold that from the public, why didn't he telelex officials.

>> i think actually the evidence is that he did. talk to anybody in that group of eight on capitol hill who all of the evidence was presented to them. >> tucker: no, i know about this. and the secretaries of state in the majority of states that we never heard anything from the administration. you saw the tape where he said, look, there's no way this is a problem, calm down. how could both things be true at the same time? >> my forecast, if he is put under oath and asked to testify, he and jay johnson and other people will say they engaged in unprecedented collaboration with state lawmakers -- >> tucker: why not tell the public will b. it? >> because he would have said trump's narrative about things being rigged. to cover the "new york times" -- >> tucker: might have hurt his candidate. an act of war against our country, but he lied about it because it might help the other party? >> no, no. >> tucker: it's not a joke, political act, everyone deserves to know about it. >> should he have in retrospect said more, one could make the

case -- >> tucker: why didn't he? >> because of what he said, it looked like hillary was going to win. >> tucker: might help trump. all he wanted was remaining in power. >> might have helped hillary? >> tucker: no, he believed that hillary was going to win no matter what so it wasn't that big a deal. >> no, i thought he thought it was a huge big deal. >> tucker: why not tell the public about it. >> he was convinced hillary would win and it would be kaelt with. >> tucker: you admitted something profound and profoundly damning. you're saying that political considerations drove the way he presented this act of war to the public. >> right. >> tucker: he was supposed to be leading. >> no. the overriding consideration for the president is the integrity of the u.s. election. >> tucker: why didn't he say that? >> he thought the integrity would be challenged by donald trump out there time after time talking about it being rigged. >> tucker: what about the other 320 million of us. >> and i think in retrospect

when people and the obama staff are saying we blew it, probably what they knew, the public should have known. >> tucker: you want to hear the real answer? i know it. they didn't hack our election. this amounted to nothing. this whole thing is hype and silliness concocted by the hillary campaign to explain their inspeunexpected loss. no --. have you had that discussion with the 17 security agencies? >> tucker: yes. >> they think the russians were out to help trump and hurt hillary. it's true. >> tucker: i have become an expert on the subject, unwittingly. >> if you don't think millions of postings on facebook and all of these spots and everything, went in one ear and out the other you don't know as much about communications a as i know you do. >> tucker: richard, thank you for joining us. >> we will both be enlightened as this investigation goes on. >> tucker: i hope. up next. [crowd chanting]

that was charles murray on stage trying to speak, couldn't. middle bury college in vermont. he will give his first televised interview since he was chased off the campus four months ago. f ♪ it's me and my best friend only new tena intimates has pro-skin technology designed to quickly wick away moisture to help maintain your skin's natural balance. for a free sample, call 1-877-get-tena. ♪ it's happening, it's happening! in the modern world, you can control just about anything with an app. your son is turning on all the lights again! and with the esurance mobile app, you can do the same thing with your car insurance. like access your id card, file a claim, or manage your policy. it's so easy it's almost scary. let's get outta here! that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call.

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to middlebury college to deliver a lecture on america's growing class divide and the decline of the american working class. an important topic. he has covered it in a couple of books. the phenomenal explains a lot about the rise of donald trump and political tremors over the last decade. murray is an important figure. instead of listening to any of this the students rioted, attempted to block murray's car, hospitalized a professor escorting him out. mr. murray has not appeared on television since this. charles murray joins us tonight. thanks for coming on. >> my pleasure. >> tucker: what i was struck by, you've written a couple of books, one in particular controversial 20 years ago, when you wrote it, people in the left freaked out. but they read and responded to what was in it. >> some of them. >> tucker: at least they present tended to. when you went to middlebury, i didn't get the sense that anyone

had read anything you have written? >> some of they will bragged about it. the faculty member leading the charm against me appearing had never read a word i had written but knew i was a bad guy. >> tucker: how did it unfold? we have played this video a number of times. this inls dent sums up a lot, that's wrong with the country. this incident. you were there, what was it like? >> i expected, because i had been briefed by the people at middlebury that the protests would occur. what we didn't know was with whether they were going to keep it up forever. i thought, hell, i'll stand up here all night to wait them out. bill burger, who was the middlebury coordinator of all of this, rightly stopped it at about 20 minutes. we went downstairs and presented the presentation on video. because they weren't going to stop. they were going to go on all night. >> tucker: what were they saying? >> they had lots of different chants. and none of them were very memorable.

they involved white supremacist, and eugenicist, white nationalist, and that kind of stuff. >> tucker: i heard one of them call you anti-gay. >> yeah. you know, first place, should i go on record and say, i'm not a white supremacist, i'm not -- okay. it's unreal. it's been unreal, actually, for the last six months where it's not that people are twisting things you have said, they are making assertions about what you have said but there are no relationship to anything you have said. >> tucker: and distorting what you are saying, almost converting it. you made a powerful case against the american elite. people who run the country. >> i'm standing up there at middlebury with elite student body and thinking to myself, you want to give a lecture dumping on the elite.

and they're upset about that. this is not going to be a lecture demonizing welfare mothers and things like. that i was going to say you as members of the new elite have to be aware of all of the ways in which the elite is screwing the working class in this country. >> tucker: interesting. 50 years ago, that would have been a message delivered most likely by some one on the left. >> yeah. >> tucker: your owe a fairly famous libertarian type person and you get shouted down. >> a couple of points, they didn't know what i was going to say. it wasn't they were protesting that message. second thing, remember, this was 100 to 200 kids out of 2,500. and so, i think with all of these protests on campus, there is a large, i you s expect silent majority. what scares me, they are cowards. when i talk to students and i think it's especially a problem in the humanities and the social

sciences and elite universities, they tailor what they write in their term papers and when they say in class to what is in reality a lot of penalties the professors are prepared to impose them if they say the wrong thing. >> tucker: this isn't happening in trade schools, and it's not happening in lower tier schools, it's happening in schools the most expensive and hardest to get into where the children of america's elite go. what does that tell you? >> first place, you have the science and technology nature versus the social science/humanities. that's way different. and, tucker, my daughter went to middlebury. graduated in 2007, got a great education. she just had to pick her classes very carefully. and it worked. so there's a danger in this. what happened in middlebury is not necessarily a nationwide problem. but it is toxic in the sense

that the whole notion of a university is that it is a safe space, if i may use that phrase, for intellectual discourse. that is the thing it is supposed to do. and thinking about middlebury, a lot of the attention came to the mob that was outside where professor stanger got seriously hurt. that was scary. but that wasn't the most important event. the most important event is what won't in the lecture hall. what went on outside was thuggery. criminal felony, somebody should do jail time. what went on inside that lecture hall was a repudation of what the university is all about. >> tucker: terrifying. your book "coming apart" provides the single clearest blueprint explaining why trump got elected. it wasn't putin, it was the forces you describe in the book. i wrish their minds were open to hearing it. >> if they invite me back i will be glad to.

>> tucker: charles murray, thank you. among the groups in the u.s. denouncing president trump's recently sustained travel ban. we'll talk to a woman who supports the ban. i love how usaa gives me the peace of mind and the security just like the marines did. at one point, i did change to a different company with car insurance, and i was not happy with the customer service. we have switched back over and we feel like we're back home now. the process through usaa is so effortless, that you feel like you're a part of the family. i love that i can pass the membership to my children, and that they can be protected. we're the williams family, and we're usaa members for life. call usaa today to talk about your insurance needs.

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>> tucker: an investigation has revealed that high-profile anti-muslim hate crime in milwaukee is anything but a hate crime. on april 10th of year, a 58-year-old woman was attacked leaving a prayer service at is lackic society of milwaukee. police didn't make an adjust and haven't, in fact, it was immediately denounced as a hate crime by at least one local official as well as many pro muslim organizations dluing including of course the counsel on american islamic locations. according to the actual police report, which apparently nobody bothered to read, the victim of the attack repeatedly denied it was a hate crime. instead she believed the attack was related to behavior of her

daughter who recently left her husband to enter a relationship with another woman. the woman disapproves of the same-sex relationship and believes this may have provoked the attack. it's complex but it's not what it was represented as. now thereof been a lot of bogus hate crimes since last fall's election. but this is a new low. activist groups with an agenda making up a hate crime as the sfoes ed victim actively denies it is a hate crime. we have a muslim woman, supports president trump's recently preserved travel ban and joins us now. to the hate crime question, it does seem like there was this spate of 45i9 crimes reported in the media against american muslims. to the extent hah we have looked into any of them, some perhaps are real, some are not real. it seems like there is a political agenda behind the reporting of these so-called crimes. have you noticed this? >> yes, i have noticed.

of course any time there is a hate crime against any group you have to speak out, because it is definitely not acceptable. racial bigotry is unacceptable. but in this case the victim consistently said this was not based on her religion and was a personal issue as you mentioned with her daughter. with organizations that we know love to play the victim card, they love to promote the idea there is rampant is lom on phobia and muslims are being bashed on the streets of the united states, that is another extreme. we have to speak out when there is hate. but when that is not the true cause, we have to be cautious of the kind of messaging that they are putting across. >> tucker: yeah, lying is always bad, in the service of politics. >> yes. >> tucker: so you've been a rare voice as a muslim in support, or maybe qualified support of the so-called travel ban of the

administration has put through. why? >> well, i call it moratorium, it is a temporary stoppage. five of the countries which i mentioned are failed states. iran is issued by itself, has been at perpetual war with the united states. the other five are failed states. they have internal conflicts, radicalizations, jihadiism, they can come back at any moment. they are a threat. as precautionary measure it makes sense to stop immigration from those countries until the national security of the country can be sorted out. it is in the longer larger interest of national security to actually implement this moratorium. >> tucker: it seems like, i don't even understand this argument, tell me if you've heard it. people are saying on the left, that this temporary travel ban would somehow make this country more dangerous, would imperil is more. do you believe there is any

merit to that argument? >> no, i don't. these are all, you know, those people who have knee jerk reactions. it is being done in national security of the country. we only to have look back at the past year and see the number of attacks that have taken place. obviously there is a problem out there, of radical islamism and it has to be addressed. especially those people who say it is about religion. it's not. i am a practicing observing muslim. for me this is about the region and not religion. and i support the ban, it sends a strong message to those countries who want to ship their terrorists to the west and of them do destruction here. >> tucker: so, really quickly, why, i mean why would people attack this ban so vehemently? you see many people on the left legislate rattly exercising, upset, emotional about it. why? >> yes, i know. because they have an emotional reaction against the man, not against the region and the office of the president of the united states.

who has every right to implement policy for the betterment of the country. and the people of america which includes muslims. they have to be more sensible instead of having these emotional knee jerk reactions, exactly as you said. no matter what he says or does there is going to be this emotional reaction. we need to take a step back, think reasonably and logically and understand that this is for our benefit. tshg you must get into some pretty intense exchanges at dinner parties. i wish i was there. thank you for this. >> i wish you were a fly on the wall, you would love it. >> tucker: i would. thank you. >> thank you. >> tucker: stevie wonder is a cultural icon, one of the great singers of all time. he had tough words for the black lives matter movement. is he right or deeply misguided? we have a panel to debate that just ahead. right or deeply misguided. we have a panel to debate that ♪

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>> tucker: stevie wonder is not that impressed by the black lives matter movement. speaking at an anti-gun violence event last week, the musical icon said this. >> in your hands you can stop all of the killing and stop all of the shooting where ef it might be. you cannot say black lives matter and then kill your self. we have mattered long before it was said. but the way we show that we matter, the way that we show all of the various people of color matter is by loving each other and doing something about it, not just talking about it. >> tucker: stevie wonder does he have a point? we have a supporter of black lives matter. kevin jackson radio show host, author and critical.

they both join us tonight. if stevie wonder is a traitor to the civil rights movement i give up. >> don't give up just yet. number one, stevie wonder is a musical genius, a wonderful guy, great musician. i don't think his point hit home. i don't think anybody is saying black lives don't matter. that it's okay to kill other black people. that the folks who have the money to show up to a stevie wonder event are those who he would be talking to. i think that this is just rhetoric that you hear sometimes, that's just not true. >> tucker: here's the part that struck me as true and i don't wade into this much. but there's no excuse for police brutality or unjustified shootings. but people are likely to be killed by some one within their xhunltd than by a cop. it seems like a fair point to me. >> you mean white-on-white crime? >> tucker: whatever, you can't

be against certain kinds of violence, you should be against all kinds of violence. >> the black lives matter month. comes back to the mexicans kill mexicans, puerto ricans kill puerto ricans, whites kill white. that's true. but blacks kill more people as a higher number as percentage, kill more blacks within our own culture. and per capita, we kill more black people than white people kill when you look at the percentage of the population. again, to stevie's point, you can't be talking about black lives matter and trying to gain sympathy for a cause when you kill each other in those record numbers. unfortunately, something like, it's roughly 6% of the people, young black thugs are killing almost 50% of the people in the country as well. >> tucker: that seems like the truth. >> i completely agree. these numbers are facts. the point is, that i think stevie misspoke. >> tucker: telling the truth? >> no, no, no.

he didn't misspeak by telling the truth. the point is, and kevin you make a very good point. look, crime is bad. black crime, we're only looking at black crime and not talking about white crime for the moment of this conversation. you know, we have to get a handle on all violence. we have to talk about how to make it so that it's more lucrative to go and get a job. let's make jobs available so that it's not more advantageous to gang bang and be in a gang. >> but you're missing the point. what stevie, making a point, this is a guy who's been forced not to look at color his entire life. >> tucker: literally. >> he doesn't. he's looking at the content of character. he's warning blacks, you can't go out and advocate that we have a special thing that allows us to say black lives matter and be mad at people that say all lives matter and try to split hairs on what it means. almost making it sound racist. when in fact you're out killing people in droves.

the biggest point obviously, tucker, stevie wonder got grief over there and backtracked on this comment. the same way cosby backtracked on sagging and other things in the black community. when you speak out you catch a lot of brief. a lot of blacks that feel identically about what we're talking about. won't speak out. all lives matter. black lives matter. if you can't keep killing yourself -- >> tucker: let me get to the heart of the question. if you write a song as good as boogie on reggae woman, isn't by definition everything you say after that right? [laughing] >> i'm more partial to ads. boogie on reggae woman is an american icon. >> tucker: but it trumps your argument. he's already won. >> he's won only with the music behind. take the music away and we'll see. >> what about "living for the

city." where he talks about this very issue. >> if you make it advantageous there isn't crime he wouldn't have taken the package across and gotten arrested. >> tucker: when you pull out the song list your point evaporates. thanks for coming. >> thanks for having me. black lives do matter. >> tucker: we got our firsted good look at how neil gorsuch will behave as a justice. what is the verdict? a new statement from slate.com. that's next. ♪ it's happening, it's happening! in the modern world, you can control just about anything with an app. your son is turning on all the lights again! you can do the same with your car insurance with the esurance mobile app. esurance. click or call. so when i need to book a hotel to me tharoom,vacation. i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it, with great summer deals up to 40% off.

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only for a limited time. so don't walk, run to outback. ♪ ♪ =speeone well, one of president trump's first acts as president was the nomination of neil gorsuch to replace antonin scalia on the supreme court. it was a big decision of course, thousandsa maybe even millions f americans were skeptical of trump the candidate that voted for him because the effusive

supreme court nominations as the single most important issues facing the country. may know people, the london. at that picture out. an article published yesterday from slate.comp is only may. here's what said "neil gorsuch is everything liberals feared and more. on monday, justice gorsuch reviewed himself to be everything that they had most fear, pro-gun, pro-travel grant, anti-gay, antichurch operation. he certainly more conservative than justice scalia. he's an uncompromising reactionary and an unmitigated disaster for the progressive product team at constitutional project and will likely serve on the court for at least three more decades. this country is in terrible trouble." it's only been a few months, but it sounds like a president made an inspired choice when it short-circuits the progressive constitutional project. whatever that was. that's about it for us tonight. tune in every night at eight for the shows is the sworn enemy of lying and possibly smugness and groupthink. do you get the art if you don't

already. we will be back tomorrow,, but first the five from new york city. ♪ >> hello everybody, i'm jesse watters. richard fowler, greg gutfeld, eric bolling, kimberly guilfoyle. it is 9:00 in new york city, and this is "the five." what did he know and when he did know it? that's the question many are asking about president obama after the bombshell report last night about how back in october, mr. obama said it was basically impossible to rig the presidential election. obama said this despite learning in august that russia was in the midst of a sophisticated cyber campaign aimed at influencing the election. according to fox news, president obama did not mention the