comeback under this president. >> sean: thank you. that's all the time we have left. thank you for being with us. this program will always be fair and balanced. we are not the "destroyed trump" mainstream media. see you back here tomorrow nigh night. >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." the juice is loose after nine years in prison following convictions for kidnapping and armed robbery. o.j. simpson was granted parole by the state of nevada. >> i concur and grant parole. in addition, our decision, though difficult, is fair and just. >> i concur. >> mr. simpson, i do vote to grant parole when eligible. that will conclude this hearing. >> thank you. >> tucker: the decision came after a hearing where simpson spoke at length about the 2007

robbery that put him in prison while his daughter testified about wanting to spend time with her father again. >> i always thought i was pretty good with people and i basically have spent a conflict free lifea you know, i'm not a guy that ever got in a fight, with the public and everybody. there are tools about how to talk to people. instead of fighting and throwing punches. it's been ruled legally by the state of california that it was my property and they've given it to me. i am in no danger of pulling a gun on anybody. i never have. no one ever accused me of pointing any weapon on them. >> i don't feel that he is a threat. i will make this clear to you. w o.j. never held a gun on me. >> i think i made it clear back then. i've never had an alcohol problem. if i took that alcohol course,

it would have been more for myoh children in case they ended up having a problem. well, my kids don't have a problem. i don't think anybody has ever accused me of having an alcohol problem or any kind of substance problem. >> on behalf of my family, my brother, my sister, o an aunt and uncle, his friends, we just want him to come home. >> i'm sorry it happened. i'm sorry, nevada. i wish he had never calledpe me. i thought i was glad to get my stuff back but it wasn't worth it. nine years away from youro famiy is just not worth it. and i'm sorry. >> tucker: he's talking there about the 2007 robbery that put' him away but that's not why this is big news. we care because this guy murdered two people with a knife in 1995 and got up anyway. he was acquitted for killing his wife and her friend.99 dr. michael baden advised the simpson defense team, here.

and mark fuhrman, an investigator in the murder. they both join us here tonight. mark fuhrman, what do you make off what o.j. simpson said today? >> what's interesting is almost everything he said was either a partial lie or a lie. he beats women. he was prosecuted for beating nicole. he has been in several fights where he beats up women. he had a weapon in the bronco. he threatened to kill himself. he actually -- partially, probably was holding collins hostage in that situation. he told the two men in las vegas to bring guns so he knew full well that they had guns and were going to probably brandish them, if not more. the property that he saysf with -- was his was all given back ts the victim.

i know both of these facts because i talked to the very detective that handled this case today. >> tucker: doctor, when you see this, when you see o.j. simpson finally a free man with no murder charges hanging over him because you helped get him acquitted, how do you feel about that? >> what mark fuhrman said, it was irrelevant to today's procedure that the parole board had. they had said right out in front that whatever happened before the 2007 incident doesn't count in their deliberations. >> tucker: sure. no one would contest that. legally, it's not relevant but in the real world -- i think most people would agree that this guy committed a double murder and beat his wife. you helped get him off. how do you feel about that? >> i think the 12 jurors didn't feel that the prosecutionl

presented the case. i was involved as a forensic pathologist. went over the forensic evidence. independent of whether he did it or not. evidence is the evidence. the jury felt that was presented to them in the criminal trial and it was not sufficient to find him guilty.nt t in the civil case, they heard evidence and presented bettery and they convicted him. i think the probation and parole comes about because he was a model prisoner and it's interesting, tucker, i spoke to the district attorney in las vegas. david roger, who prosecuted the 2007 case. they had offered him 30 months plea deal which he refused. he could have been in 30 months and got out. now it's nine years later. there are still problems, but he felt as long as he abided by the

procedures necessary, it was properly given probation. >> tucker: mark fuhrman, i. have talked to you before but i never asked you this question. i always wondered. o.j. simpson in my view, murders two people. gets away with it. the trial ends and you become the villain and he goes to play golf. what do you think of that? are you bitter about that? >> i never have worried about what suspects think or what they are doing or if one slips away. that's just the way things work. >> tucker: that's not what i'm saying. in our society. you almost never hear anyone get on tv and say o.j. simpson's a murderer and he is disgusting. i have heard people say mark fuhrman as a bad guy. do you think it's unfair that in the view of some, you are the villain when this guy got away with murder? >> the first thing, there's no such thing as fair. the world's not fair. you march on with the fact that

you have before you. the facts are i'm not a murderer. there's nothing you can call me that makes me equal to just how evil o.j. simpson is. when you cut the head off of your children's mother and you leave her on the steps, they most probably -- had we notre found the body, the children would have wandered down thereos and found their mother in a pool of blood. when you think about that and you want to compare that to anything you think i am? i will take that challenge any time. >> tucker: pretty good point. doctor, in today's hearing, you got the sense that o.j. simpson -- and it looks sincere to me -- he didn't think he did anything wrong. i remember having that same impression of him 22 years ago during his trial.ro was that your impression? this is guy believes himself blameless? >> no, he doesn't believe himself blameless. he took some responsibility for the fact that the reason for the 2007 episode was because he got people there.

he was trying to defend what happened there. but he did finally take some responsibility because two security guards he didn't know pulled out the guns. because of the insignificance of the stupid thing that he was doing, mr. roger, he was able to offer him a decent plea bargain which he refused and which he and wound up getting really punishment for the murder of his wife and -- >> tucker: ron goldman. my last question. do you think he did it, doctor? i've never asked you this. >> i think that both juries got it right, as far as what was presented to the juries. >> tucker: right, but do youo think he did it? do you think he killed them?

>> any opinions i have about any case i testified in, i have never testified about an opinion, about whether i thought someone was guilty or innocent. i will show what the autopsy or forensics shows -- >> tucker: not asking you to testify. i don't think we are going to get anywhere. mark fuhrman, dr. baden, thank you. jeffrey felix, a retired guard at lovelock correctional center, where o.j. simpson has been held for the past nine years. he's the author of a book called "guarding the juice: how o.j. simpson became my prison bff." what a title. today oj and his attorney appeared to ridicule felix. >> i spent the 12 years leading up to this institution, raised two kids in l.a. r i'm sorry, miami. you know, with all the media stuff, these guys like jeffrey felix making up stories, that was happening out on the street

also. >> tucker: jeffrey felix joins us now.re this is really illustrative. we are learning that not only is he a violent killer, he's also kind of a bad friend. you say you're his bff and there he is, slashing you in the hearing today. >> i felt horrible. in the book, all i said was a great things about the juice. he was a model inmate. he always followed rules and regulations, treated people witp respect. i didn't say anything bad about book. my i got hammered on the streets for sticking up for the juice. he puts on the bus driver's uniform, just runs me over.he i mean, he threw my name out there, over 500 million people heard that. that was horrible. n >> tucker: are you assessing your own ability to judge character now? do you think he is not the double murderer i thought he was? >> i don't know. all i know is that i feel betrayed. w i stuck up for him and he ran me over.

it's horrible. >> tucker: let's be real. were you really surprised that o.j. simpson wasn't loyal to a prison guard? >> he doesn't have to throw my name out there. look, o.j. simpson had one shot at freedom today for the parole board. he took that chance and threw my name oute there. i mean, that's taking a risk. >> tucker: why was he mad at you, do you think? >> i have no idea. maybe it's over the cookie stories. he and his camp should be more angry about the story that came out about him pleasuring himself in front of the woman guard that never happened. >> tucker: i haven't read your book. it's on my nightstand. you know, long reading list. apparently you've got a chapter describing his private parts? the whole chapter? >> yes, that was more mye cowriter's idea. after seeing that and him, i felt inadequate about myself. >> tucker: okay... without even getting into any more of those details, thank you very much, maybe that's why he's annoyed?

>> how can you be annoyed about that? that's a compliment. if you tell him he's not working with anything, that would be horrible. >> tucker: okay, i am siding with o.j. all of a sudden. i will have to cut the segment short. thank you for joining us. >> thank you, have a good night. >> tucker: jeff sessions could e president's best ally in the white house. why does the president attack jeff sessions in his interview with "the new york times"? special counsel bob mueller reportedly expanding his investigation in a huge way, bigly. to cover donald trump's business finances. stay tuned. business finances. stay it's just a burst pipe, i could fix it. (laugh) no. with claim rateguard your rates won't go up just because of a claim. i totally could've - no! switching to allstate is worth it. then you belong at bass pro shops for freedom days. with clearance savings of 33 to 50%

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>> tucker: it's been overshadowed by news about war heroes and retired tailbacks but the president has been in the news today too, as he often is. last night, he went after jeff sessions saying he was angry that sessions had recused himself from the russia investigation.ef if he "had to do it over again," he "would have hired someone else" to be the ag. stinging words but this morning, sessions seem to brush them off. >> what is your reaction to those remarks and how seriously are you considering resigning? >> we love this job and i love serving. i plan to continue to do so, as long as that's appropriate. >> how do you feel like you can effectively serve from here on out if you don't have the confidence of the president?t? >> we are serving right now. i'm totally confident that we can continue to run this office in an effective way.

>> tucker: now, take a step back and you can see how this all happened. the president is a 71-year-old political novice and all of a sudden, he is the subject of a vague open-ended investigation, whose goal may be to imprison him and his family. ask anyone who's had an independent counsel on this case. there are a lot of them here in washington. it's terrifying. the pressure, you can end up lashing out atri the people around you, even -- maybe especially the ones trying to help you the most. that's probably what's going on. yet, attacking jeff sessions was still a useless, self-destructive act. the first rule in politics, don't shoot the friendlies. sessions is one of the allies, one of the very few o that understands why the president won in the first plac

place. sessions made big sacrifices to work in the white house -- hee was in alabama, with a senate seat he could have held forever there. many of the staff didn't want him to endorse donald trump but he did anyway. purely because he felt it was important.f sessions was worried about what an unsecured border and mass immigration would do to america evenen though the biggest effecs wouldn't be seen for decades. he jumped in and accepted the offer to become attorney genera general. he didn't do this to get rich and certainly not to become more popular. he became less. many of his former colleagues slandered him as a bigot during his confirmation hearings.s.or he's been a rare person in the entire executive branch making actual progress implementing the agenda his boss ran on. he's a rare person who believes in it. in an administration brimmingea with opportunists and ideological saboteurs, who can be less interested in what voters think, sessions have never lost sight of the lessons of the lastnk election. he has gone after sanctuary

cities, and forced immigration laws. he has ended the obama administration's attack on local police departments and lot more. he is likely the most effective member of the trump cabinet. in return, the president attacked him in an interview with "the new york times." it's notot just criticism. it's an insult. it's a worrisome sign that the president is forgetting who is on his side. goldman sachs did not elect president trump. the middle class did. trump voters may find his tweets amusing they are not the point of this exercise. the point is to shine some light on the broad middle of this country and the millions of normal people who are hurting and could badly use an ally for the first time in a long time.hi the hope is it was just a stress-related aberration, the equivalent of yelling at your kids when you had a bad day at the office. if so, it will be not -- not be hard to fix. going forward, pay a little less attention to "the new york times" and a little more to matt drudge and for god sakes, lay off jeff sessions. he's your friend.

one of the very few you have in washington. on the trump transition team, joining us now, brad blakeman. so, it's hard to understand why the president would lash -- it's easy to understand his frustration. a real threat to him and his presidency, this investigation. it's hard to see my jeff sessions gets the blame. i think jeff sessions is one of the rare people who understand why trump got elected. >> no doubt he is producing for the president. they are getting along and policy, not personality. in the early part of june when this recusal took place, jeff sessions knew the president was disappointed and offered his ranking resignation. it was not accepted at the time. if you would think it would have blown over. there's nothing between june 6th and today other than the president again lashing out at somebody who is delivering for him and the american people. j j it doesn't make sense at this w time for the president to hurt somebody and in fact, he's

hurting himself and his own agenda by going after him. >> tucker: it's deeply unfair but it also might be a sign of bad political judgment.bu i guess, why would you care with "the new york times" thinks? g "the new york times" hates him. meanwhile, "the drudge" report, run by matt drudge, an aggregator, one of the biggest on the internet, an early champion of trump. now in the last couple of weeks, it seemed hostile to trump. that would be a real concern for me if i was running a political operation.ea losing people who supported me is a sign that things are going in the wrong direction. do you think they know that? >> i would hope they know that. certainly the white house was not happy that this was reported in the last day. of them being blindsided by this interview and then trying to do damage control. the president did a fantastic job on health care.

he took the 52 senators to task and reminded them what their responsibility and promises were to the american people. that was all destroyed in a matter of hours by this interview. t t p you give an interview like that to the enemy? "the new york times"? no friend of yours? they're trying to bait you. that's what they were doing, the president took the bait. he has received the brunt of a terrible, terrible article. it will now take some time frame -- for him to get back on track. the president has to realize that you can be frustrated but keep it within the family. then, to your staff. don't vent to your enemies. >> tucker: with the context of an independent counsel investigation, the only person to vent to is your lawyer and your spouse. the only people whose communications cannot be grabbed by the opposition. he must know that. why has nobody told him that? speak i think they are telling them that. he has the finest lawyers.

he has a very brilliant staff. if you don't take the advice, who can you blame? you have to blame yourself. the president has to be more disciplined and controlled because he has an agenda that the american people are very acceptable of. they want obamacare repealed and replaced. they want tax reform and immigration reform. these are the things the president has to deliver on. everything else is just noise. he has the perfect out in not talking about it. there's a special counsel, investigations on the hill. he has a perfect excuse not to talk. >> tucker: it was sinister to see that leaked from the mueller camp. "better not be going after my personal finances," bam. less than 24 hours, a leak. yes, they are. >> he was baited into that question by "the new york times." the president is right. the special counsel serves at the pleasure of the president. he better have a good reason to get rid of them. >> tucker: brad blakeman,e thank you for joining us. just one day after the president warned special counselor robert mueller not to investigate his finances in an interview with "the new york times," mueller is

doing just that and having the deputies spread the word that he is doing just that. "bloomberg" reported that he is not just looking at linkst between russia and trump's presidential campaign. he's also investigating personal business dealings that may involve russia. that would include the 2013 miss universe pageant in moscow. an hour ago, "the wall street journal" reported mueller is investigating paul manafort for possible money laundering. charles krauthammer is an author and columnist and he joins us tonight. there's a lot here but the first to timing of this, the president says unwisely, mueller can't go there with his personal finances. the very next day, somebodyis fm the mueller camp leaks this.th what do you think of that? >> i think the problem here at root is the whole idea of the special counsel. special prosecutor.

their mandates are unlimited. their resources are unlimited. politically, they are un-fireable. legally, yes, but we know what happened with nixon when heee tried to fire a special prosecutor. i think the same would happen to trump. he would be engulfed if he tried to. why does this happen? when it does, the reason it's wrong is because it creates anan organization with unlimited resources and mandates to run a fishing expedition. we know what happened with clinton. it started out as a bad real estate deal and ended up with sex in the oval office. not exactly two related topics. >> tucker: not a linear progression. >> it was a zigzag progression. it's a given that we are having a special prosecutor. the mandate is to look for the collusion, the corroboration. -- cooperation. i think it's reasonable within the scope of that charge to follow the money.

to see if there were financial dealings with russia. that might account for some of the collusion, if theyin find collusion.us what trump seemed to say in the interview was that he kind of accepted the logic of that. he wouldn't protest that. he seemed to say if you go beyondo russian transactions, then you are doing a fishing expedition and crossing the redline. even trump seems to be saying that as long as these are russian transactions, which i assume are fairly limited, trump himself mentioned the condos being sold to russian nationals. which on its face, completely innocent. that seems to be where the dividing line is. >> tucker: that's a big line, though. i'm confident until it's shown otherwise that russia did not get donald trump elected. i don't think there's evidence of that. when you watch any kind of financial transaction in russia, whether it's buying dinner, selling a condo, having a

miss universe pageant, who knows what's there? it's russia. >> that's why looking at the finances is important. it's not a market economy like ours. not one where you have public companies that have to make declarations with the stock market. there is a mafia regime run by thugs. ex-kgb thugs. they launder money. they steal. they do deals. not to say trump had anything to do with any of that, but because those are the circumstances under which there are transactions with russia, you can link it logically. again, if you accept the premisa that we should have a special prosecutor and the scope to go after possible collusion, it makes sense to go after financial dealings. you shouldn't be in a fishing expedition to go after stuff you did with other countries. >> tucker: i think it could really be problematic.er charles, thank you for that.

a satanic temple is trying to erect a shrine for the prince of darkness in a small minnesota town. welcome to 2017. what's the point of all this? we will talk to one of the people from the temple. he might explain. when you're close to the people you love, does psoriasis ever get in the way of a touching moment? if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, you can embrace the chance of completely clear skin with taltz. taltz is proven to give you a chance at completely clear skin. with taltz, up to 90% of patients had a significant improvement of their psoriasis plaques. in fact, 4 out of 10 even achieved completely clear skin. do not use if you are allergic to taltz. before starting you should be checked for tuberculosis. taltz may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them.

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>> tucker: veterans park in belle plaine, minnesota, once

featured a christian monument. that wasrk dangerous and offense so the city declared the monument location a free speech zone. that drew the attention of a satanist group which wanted to erect a satanic shrine. the city is reversing itself and will remove all religious symbols from the park instead. the cofounder of the satanicic temple joining us tonight. thank you for joining us. i don't know much about satanism.on what are the five pillars of satanism? >> we have seven tenets.s they are irrelevant for having us be in the free speech zone. >> tucker: you claim to be a religion. >> us being a religion -- >> tucker: is of the worship of satan?e >> no, we are nontheistic. there are modern scholars of

satanism. there's books about new religion that covers satanism. as i've said, it has no bearing on our claim to access to the free speech zone. >> tucker: the reason i'm pressing you is because i know a fake media story when i see one. the whole satanism thing seems like that. i'm trying to take you seriously because i take religious people seriously, all ofiis them. this seems a way to give the finger to everyone else. they're probably not a lot of satanists in this town of 600 and minnesota. are there? >> there are some. a good deal of veterans within our ranks. we have 100,000f members. many veterans. there are veterans who don't identify with us who still stand up for our right to speak. we find that very often when we ask for equal access. it's veterans who come forward in our defense. the values that they fought for. >> tucker: amen. i agree with that wholeheartedly. hence, your appearance tonight.

people should have a right to speak but they should answer questions. but the right to speak and the right to give the finger to the residents of this little town in minnesota, it's not exactly -- >> that's not what we are doingf the monument, of course, it is not. look at the monument. it's very respectful.. reverent. a simple, sober monument. >> tucker: a monument to what? s >> to veterans. this was first and foremost something to honor the veterans. veterans who have fought and served, all veterans. not all veterans are christian or satanist but they fought fort pluralism and free speech. to that end, it's nice to know that we can preserve those values. when they shut down the open forum, we weren't actually celebrating that. we built this monument and were ready to install it. we wanted to put it there. it seemed like the residents ofi belle plaine weren't entirely up in arms about this. some of the word we got back was that people thought our monument design wasn't anything to complain about.

the protesters from the catholic organization were out-of-state. we get this stuff about a small town -- their regionalli boundaries.ou >> tucker: try it in downtown birmingham, alabama, or chicago or something. but here's the point i'm making. there is no comparison between satanism, a silly made up religion which has no god and is nontheistic, which you conceded, and christianity, judaism, or islam. agree or disagree, they are millennia old. they run hospitals, churches, schools. they form the basis of our civil society.hu they don't really compare to what you are doing. do they? >> well, we are getting there.e. we are a growing population and we should defend pluralism and free speech. we can't allow america to divide itself into regional theocracy.o a place like clearwater, florida. almost entirely colonized by scientologists. will they shut down for the open forum of l. ron hubbard?

imagine the civil war that would ensue. >> tucker: i mean, i agree with your point strongly that people ought to be allowed to express divergent views in public. i don't want to be sucked into the trap of having to take seriously what is clearly not a serious thing. do you know what i mean? it's one thing for me to agree with you. >> if we weren't being serious -- i would understand what you are saying. if you learn anything about the satanic temple, you can see that we must be serious. we have chapters internationally, quickly growing. >> tucker: i don't believe your numbers for second. what does that even mean? i don't believe the numbers of any group that comes on my show. i always just divide by ten. before we go -- >> so what if there were two? we would still have open accesss to the open forum. >> tucker: you would have the right to say what you think if

it was just you. i would defend that right but f the point of calling this satanism is just horrifying normal people in the middle of the country. >> that's not true. no, no. >> tucker: so what is the point? i will give you 30 seconds. what's the point of satanism? >> to sum up a religious movement and its history in 30 seconds, i would say satanism embodies enlightenment values. it is emblematic of the ultimate rebellion against tyranny. to that end, we look at the history of the crushing of the church and rise of enlightenment values and pluralism and multiculturalism and diversity as inherently satanic. >> tucker: yeah, you're taking a christian symbol, satan, and using it against christians. that's kind of the point. you could have chosen anything to name this group, since it's basically new, and you didn't.

you chose the one thing that christians hate the most. >> satanism means something to us. it's not an arbitrary label. i think you could really get into it. >> tucker: probably not. thanks for joining us. i appreciate it. right now she's just a a congresswoman from california, but maxine waters may have her eyes on the presidency. she was just in an early primary state. she is the toast of msnbc. you could be voting for her in the primary in three years. are you ready for that? plus more on o.j. simpson, part -- alan dershowitz, n way♪ copd tries to say, "go this way." i say, "i'll go my own way" with anoro. ♪go your own way once-daily anoro contains

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given that it's a long way from her district, she's running for president. >> certainly the inauguration is a way of welcoming in and respecting them.ti and i don't honor him. i don't respect him and i do not want to be involved with him. i'm questioning the patriotism i'm questioning the patriotism of all those republicans who are allowing this president to side with putin. i think that jeff sessions is very dangerous. i think he's a racist. this is a bunch of scum bags. this will put us a little bit further on our way to what i've been calling for so long. impeachment. >> tucker: larry elder, radio show host in los angeles. a proud son of that city. he knows maxine waters. he joins us for a preview of her presidential campaign. great to see you. is it fair to assume she's going to new hampshire all the way

from hancock park, that she's thinking about running for president. >> if she runs, she may have a few problems. of the 535 lawmakers, she's the only one to my knowledge who has written to fidel castro. urging him not to send back a woman who murdered a new jersey state trooper, escaped, fled to cuba. congress passed a resolution asking castro to return her and she wrote a letter to castro, the woman who escaped is a former black panther. she likened her to a freedom fighter and accused her of being a victim of the criminal justicd system and urged castro to not return her to america. the woman, joanne chesimard, remains at the top of the fbi's most wanted list. maxine waters urged castro not to send her back. she falsely accuse the cia of fomenting the crack cocaine epidemic in the inner cities. the argument has been debunked.

she had a meeting with the then secretary of treasury urging him during the financial mall town to a bailout. a bank she and her husband had investments in. she played the race card. it went supernova. one of the reasons why one of the left-wing groups, citizens for responsibility and ethics,so labeled her as one of the most corrupt politicians in washington, d.c. >> tucker: i can't speak to that because i'm not an investigator but she is certainly good with money.ti she's been in office for 40 years. continuously 40 years. >> tucker: lives in a $4.5 million house in one of the nicest neighborhoods in l.a. >> she's a true stock investor. >> tucker: how did she do that? do you know the answer? is it magic? how can i do something like? that? >> i will give you the harry truman answer. when you go into politics poor and you come out rich, you are stealing. >> tucker: [laughs]. i love that.

>> we haven't even talked about her left-wing views. they aren't any different than bernie sanders or elizabeth warren or nancy pelosi but she champions herself as the voice of the inner city. her policies on inner-city black and brown people are corrosive. one is her opposition to voyagers. i went to high school called crenshaw. you saw thef movie "boyz in the hood," it was my high school. 3% of the kids at that school can do math at grade level but if you live across the street, you are mandated to send your kids to that school. republicans want to give thatbu person a choice, democrats want to send that child to that school no matter what. people often reconsider maxine waters and black people in particular ought to consider their to people like maxine waters. >> tucker: i totally agree. if she runs for president, i hope you will be a maxine waters correspondent. >> she will not get my vote. >> tucker: you can cover her for us.

i would love that. larry elder. alan dershowitz, part of the defense team and trial of o.j. simpson 22 years ago, we will talk to him after the break. we will ask about how he feels about that. and the president's remarks about jeff sessions. stay tuned. 80 percent of recurrent ischemic strokes could be prevented with the right steps. and take it from me, every step counts.

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>> i do vote to grant parole. this will conclude this hearing. >> thank you. >> tucker: o.j. simpson is going free. the former nfl star was granted parole after nine years in prison for armed robbery. alan dershowitz is a harvard laa professor and served on simpson's defense team more than 20 years ago.

professor, thank you for coming on. what would you say to o.j. now that he's free? >> stay out of the public. live a private life. when i helped get him acquitted in a very controversial case, the public doesn't want you, they want to exploit you. you have to live a life of quiet desperation. most americans think you did it. you can go back to your family but if you start writing books and going on television, it's going to stir up controversy and you will probably get in trouble again.is he probably won't listen to me. >> tucker: he did do it,t, didn't he murder those two people? >> a lawyer is not able to disclose private views. when benjamin netanyahu was elected prime minister, he had a question for me and he asked if oj did it? and i said "does israel have nuclear weapons?" and he said "i can't tell you that," and i said, "well, you know i can't tell you that."

>> tucker: the answer in both cases is the same, i have a feeling. looking back after all these years, i don't think you are at the center of the defense but part of it was the way racism was the problem. do you think that defense took a toll on the country? did it divide people? it was untrue anyway but was there a social cost attached? >> the decision to bring the trial downtown, that guaranteed a predominantly black jury.. could've been brought the trial in a predominantly white area, and then marcia clark decided she would havefr benefit from having nine black women on the jury. our thought was black jurors would be more receptive to police tampering with evidence. it reflected the deep racial divisions in the country rather than contributing to them. it may have contributed somewhat

as defense lawyers, we have a role to play. we have to consider only the interests of justice for our client. everything i did in the case i am proud of. i was primarily the "god forbid" lawyer. the appeals lawyer. but i also helped plan the strategy, particularly this scientific strategy. you realize why it was a wise decision. he would not have been a good witness. if the prosecution had made some wise decisions, if they had had not put furman on the stand, hadn't tried the glove on in front of the jury. we didn't win back the case. they lost the case. if you want to blame somebody for what you believe is an injustice, it goes primarily to the prosecutors. >> tucker: i blame the jury. they are the ones that made the decision. i know you can't say what you think of your former client's guilt or innocence but what was your gut response when you saw him acquitted? >> i thought there wouldld probably be a hung jury. i didn't think there was going to be conviction. i was surprised you could get

any anonymity. the scientific evidence, i was fairly confident there would be no conviction but i also thought there would be no acquittal. i was surprised. >> tucker: to a different topic. i know you've been following the russian investigation. what the president said about his attorney general to "the new york times," he said if "i'd known he would recuse himself, i would not have hired him." you think he legally had to recuse himself? the attorney general? >> there is no legal requirement to recuse but there's an ethical requirement. presidents and attorney generals often have a tense relationship. bill clinton had an extremely tense relationship with janet reno. i'm sure he wished he hadn't hired her. she appointed an independent counsel to investigate him. i'm not surprised at president trump's views. i think he would have been better off expressing them in private than in public. >> tucker: thank you for coming on tonight. we will be right back. it's ok that everybody ignores me when i drive.

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>> tucker: that's it for us unfortunately, tune in every >> tucker: that's it for us unfortunately, tune in every e night at eight to the show that's the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity, smugness, and groupthink, "the five"'s next will see you tomorrow. >> this is a fox news alert, earlier this evening cia director mike pompeo slammed "the new york times" for outing an undercover cia officer. let's bring in fox news' ed henry for more on this story. >> good to see you, a dramatic development tonight. this is happening at the aspen security forum, this is an annual event out in colorado where these various security officials get together and talk about the top issues of the day. russian interference in the last presidential election was also a major topic, we'll get into that because rick pompeo got frustrated by a series of questions by reporters and panelists about that. what he was particularly angry