he took it all in stride, even posting a picture saying "the moment of impact." >> bill: that was a called strike. and it hurt. we'll see you later everybody, "happening now" starts now, bye-bye. >> jon: a fox news alert, the president's chief strategist steve bannon is backpedaling after a bombshell interview and when she spoke out supremacist protesters and undercut president trump's position on north korea. fox news now learning that steve bannon is saying he believes that interview with the american prospect magazine was off the record. aren't they all? >> heather: another one. >> jon: good morning to you, i'm jon scott. >> heather: i'm heather childers. he did not hold back at all. in the interview, he discussed some plans to "neutralize his rivals in government, he also

said the u.s. faces an economic war with china and he contradicted the president's threat of possible military action against north korea saying "there is no military option on north korea. when asked if he still had confidence in steve bannon, president trump said this. >> i like him, he's a good man, he's not a racist, i can tell you that. he is a good person. he actually gets very unfair press in that regard, but we'll see what happens with mr. bannon, but he is a good person and i think the press treats and frankly very unfairly. >> heather: and his interview, he also attacked the far right, adding "ethanol nationalism and its losers is a strange element. i think the media plays it up too much and we have to cope crush it more." bryan's life for us in bridgewater new jersey.

what is the latest? >> the latest right now is the balance of the president's tweets. he is now saying affirmatively for the first time that he is for confederate statues and a series of tweets this morning. he called taking down these statues foolish, he said they are taking these down and ripping apart the u.s. culture, let's read these tweets. sad to see that history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments. you can change history, but you can learn from it. robert e lee, stonewall jackson. who's next? washington, jefferson? so foolish. also the beauty that is being taken out of our cities, towns, and parks will be greatly missed and never able to be comparably replaced. these tweets come at a time when it's completely controversial and he's taking a stand at times when cities like baltimore and north carolina and florida are wrestling with whether or not they should take down the

statues, many have already been taken down by local municipalities. in a press conference on tuesday, he was a little bit more ambiguous as to whether or not he was for entirely taking the statues down, obviously today, he is more informative. listen to what he said on tuesday about the topic. >> should the statue of robert e lee stay up? >> i would say that's up to a local town, community, or the federal government depending on what they think. >> all of this after a surprising interview that you laid out on the intro today with steve bannon and a left-wing publication called the american prospect. bannon calling reporter last night, talking about everything from north korea to the infighting within the administration. he claims he believes that this conversation was off the record, he believes he was an executive

editor of a publication. to hear that he said it was off the record, we are also given the fact with anthony scaramucci, obviously making those comments and being fired from his job just ten days when he made comments to a reporter that he thought was off the record. he mentioned that he called the ultrabright clowns. also in an interview with "the new york times," he welcomed democrats and the left wing, talking about race. in this interview with "the new york times," he said the race identity politics of the left wants to save all racists, just give me more. on top of all of us in the interview, he did talk about gary cohn, he also pointed out that susan thorton, an advisor in the secretary of state tillers and, he said he had plans on firing her. today, tiller sin shook her hand

in front of cameras, a clear sign of support that she's not going anywhere and in an interview, bannon said his remarks with the american prospect magazine were good because they drew fire away from the president of the united states and changed the media narrative with a single phone call. this is a man who the president has talked about perhaps being on the brink of losing his job, having a phone call that he thought was off the record, now saying wait a second, this phone call could have been a good thing. it's obviously changing the narrative in his mind. the story continues. >> heather: the narrative is costly changing. bryan llenas life for us, thank you. >> jon: president trump was already under pressure from some quarters to fire his chief strategist, so how will this interview affect steve bannon's relationship with the president?

here is more what mr. trump had to say about his chief strategist before that interview was posted. >> i like mr. bannon, he's a friend of mine, but mr. bannon came on very late, you know tha that. i went through 17 senators, governors, and i won all the primaries. mr. bannon came on very much later than that. >> jon: jordan fabian, white house correspondent for the hill and philip wakeman. gentlemen, welcome to both of you. jordan, just one week off this -- just when i thought this electroweak can get any more electric, this interview comes. he said it was off the record, due by that? >> i don't, this is a guy who's in his 60s, he's a senior advisor in the white house. this is someone who talks to reporters all the time, so he's got to know the ground rules when he speaking to reporters.

it's interesting to see his efforts to rationalize this by saying it was going to change the narrative and get the heat off trump, he never intended it to be on the record. i don't see how that would be the case. all these explanations aren't really adding up. >> jon: philip, same question to you. a guy named anthony scaramucci gave an interview that he thought was off the record, or so he says, and it got him canned, do we really believe that steve bannon didn't think his words were going to be published? >> i'm with jordan on this one. steve bannon is too smart to go full scare motive. either he knows he's being pushed out of the white house and he's decided to go down in flames by criticizing the president and criticizing administration or he decided to deliberately set himself on fire to prove a point, that he can't be touched. >> jon: here's one of the interesting things about the

interview, he criticizes the alt- right movement. does that make any sense? >> again, it doesn't. he once called it news organization and the platform of the alt- right. it doesn't really matter, it's not fair to say we are making this are platform. to say these people are clowns, it was kind of irrelevant, it doesn't really jive with his career in the past two or three years in the media. >> jon: what about the choice of outlets here? not exactly a conservative publication, why would he pick up the phone and call the prospect to make these remarks? >> steve bannon seems to be playing his own game here and

that last point, he likes to call these people clowns, but he likes what they're doing. as long as this controversy continues, his thoughts will be that as long as the left consumes itself with identity politics, the right will have a free hand to pursue some agenda, but it sounds good on paper, it's not happening. republicans are abandoning the president right now. >> jon: he did say that in the article, he said of the left focuses on identity politics, and we, meaning he and the president get jobs in the economy moving, they're going to crush the democrats in the next election. >> philip has a good point, you have both former presidents bush come out and criticized the president for these statements, mitch mcconnell, paul ryan, not on board with what the president is saying and there's already frayed relationships there. how we focus on the confederate statues and events in charlottesville helping to advance tax reform and health care, it's really not. again, it's greeting a rift

within the party at a time when the need to be coming together to advance their agenda. >> jon: in the meantime, the president is said to be sitting in trump tower, not paying a great deal of attention to the storm going on around him. >> steve bannon, with one phone call, really erased president trump's big victories. bannon called the prospect and basically said all that talk about keeping all the options on the table was not really going to happen, so he definitely called his own bluff on this one. >> jon: it's an astounding interview, will be talking about it for a while. philip and jordan, thank you. >> heather: in the meantime, we slinked talk about north korea because that is developing and perhaps some people would say more importantly my china. they're pushing for restraint in the north korea showdown saying that military action should not be an option, while the top u.s.

military officers agree saying it would be horrific. he says allowing the rogue nation to develop the capabilities to hit united states with nuclear weapons would be "unimaginable." the new u.s. ambassador to japan is also weighing in on the crisis. >> i think what you see with north korea is the effect on display that all options on the table. i don't see any options being taken off the table by the united states and i see the pressure by the international community mounting even greater until they began to dial back their rhetoric. we await that, we look forward to that and i expect that to come. >> jon: guam would certainly pay a role in military action. our own william la jeunesse who is in the u.s. airbase on guam, he joins us now live. >> there are two things that

north korea doesn't like, one, the b-1 bomber, two's joint u.s. and south korean more exercise. that military drill begins on sunday, while a new set of b-1 bombers just arrived here on guam from the mainland. north korea sees both as a provocation and prelude to war. the b-1 b can reach pyongyang in under three hours and is seen as key to knocking out their nuclear capabilities. those bombers may or may not be involved on sunday when we can this ten day joint military exercise with the south involving some 80,000 soldiers. the u.s. called the defensive. south korea's new president says that's not going to happen in fact, he said he considers sending a special envoy to the north.

>> only south korea can decide military action in the south korean peninsula, no one can choose to carry out military action without south korea's consent. the united states and president trump it made a promise to fully cooperate and ask for our agreement in advance before arriving at whatever options they might use against the north. >> tuesday, kim agreed to hold off firing missiles at guam, provided the u.s. also show some restraint, but as you mention, presidential advisor steve bannon says this current crisis entirely is a sideshow and i'm quoting. there's no military solution to north korea's nuclear threat, forget it. until somebody solves a part of the equation that shows we have 10 million people in seoul who don't die in the first 30 minutes from a conventional attack, i don't know what you're talking about. there is no military solution here. they got us. which is why as you know, many say only china can pressure north korea to stop its nuclear program, which is just

yesterday, south korea and japan said were unacceptable. >> jon: unbelievably thorny equation. william la jeunesse and guam, thank you. >> heather: president trump defending his latest remarked on charlottesville was some jabs at senate republicans who have criticized his response. how lindsay graham is responding today and our panel will weigh in on that. plus attorney general jeff sessions continuing to speak out on sanctuary cities with chicago in his cross hairs. speak out these policies do a broader damage to the country that many understand, they openly say we are a welcoming city, come into our city and we won't even tell our federal police, when you commit a crime, if you're here unlawfully. during your period?

it's up to you, with tampax pearl. you get ultimate protection on your heaviest days, and smooth removal for your lightest. tampax pearl. and pocket pearl, for on the go. you're searching for something. whoooo. like the perfect deal... ...on the perfect hotel. so wouldn't it be perfect if... ....there was a single site... ...where you could find the... ...right hotel for you at the best price? there is. because tripadvisor now compares... ...prices from over 200 booking... ...sites ...to save you up to 30%... ...on the hotel you want. trust this bird's words. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices.

>> heather: breaking news on the fallout of president trump's latest remarked on charlottesville. firing back at lindsay graham on

twitter. after the south carolina senator accused of president of equating white supremacists with those who were in charlottesville to protesting him. publicity seeking lindsay graham falsely stated that i said there is a moral equivalency between the kkk, neo-nazi's, and white supremacists and people like miss heyer, such a disgusting lie. he just can't forget his election trouncing. the people of south carolina will remember. and the president tweeting this after graham issued this statement. president trump took a step backward by again suggesting that there is moral equivalency between the white supremacists, neo-nazi, and kkk members and people like heyer. let's begin our political panel.

i think you both for joining us. kristin, i'll start with you, is that a fair assessment from lindsay graham? >> i think lindsay graham is not wrong for thinking that donald trump's statements on tuesday it really set us backwards. the statement that he made on monday came too late, but he should have just left it there. and set on tuesday by saying there were some very fine people that were at this rally, there are folks that are showing up and they've got nazi flags in their demanding that be cast out of society, you don't suggest that the folks on the other side were also to blame. heather heyer is not to blame for the violence that occurred. >> heather: do you think he was blaming the victim in this? i know everybody's been talking about this. >> that's why he shouldn't shoot from the hip and say these

things. at this point, i'm not inclined to give president trump the benefit of the doubt, but even if he didn't mean it, what he said was there's blame on all sides and he goes back to this all sides thing. there are folks on the far left that are more violent and the time to call them out is not a time when a white supremacist drove a car into a pack of people. >> our president failed the nation. we need a more compass of leadership and we look to our president to help reflect that and our values and our president failed us dramatically. >> heather: how did he fail us us? let me read this statement, let me read his words. i apologize for speaking over you, this with the president said. i am not talking about the neo-nazi's because they should be condemned totally. what's wrong with that? >> it's the part that he went on to say when he talked about the many sides of the violence in

charlottesville, where he equated the people who stood up to nazi's. i have family members who fought for this country standing up to nazi's. there is no moral equivalency between the nazis killing americans versus the people who are willing to stand up to nazis. there is no moral equivalency there. we deserve a leader and leadership in this country that recognizes that. i pray praise at senator grahar standing up and remarked and condemned to the of the president that drew the suggestion of moral equipment sleep. >> heather: kristen coming at the last on this. speak out there's a lot of things that president trump should be trying to achieve, that press conference on tuesday was supposed to be about infrastructure. i wish the president would focus on things like that and by continuing -- >> heather: that's a good point and what might help is

some other congressional leaders, lindsay graham being one of them decided to move forward to the agenda as well. >> it's perfectly legitimate to call at the president when he says something wrong. >> heather: think you both for joining us and we'll be right back. that knows the weather down to the square block. this is a diamond tracked on a blockchain - protected against fraud, theft and trafficking. this is a financial transaction secure from hacks and threats others can't see. this is a patient's medical history made secure - while still available to their doctor at their fingertips. this is an asteroid live-streamed to millions of viewers from 220 miles above earth. this is ai trained by experts in 20 industries. your industry. hello. this is not the cloud you know. this is the ibm cloud. built for your business. designed for your data. secure to the core.

the ibm cloud is the cloud for enterprise. yours. ♪ ♪ attention homeowners age 62 and older... yours. dr.ben carson, the secretary of housing and urban development recently affirmed his commitment to the reverse mortgage program. "last year, hud proposed a new regulation that would make some improvements and strengthen the program" said carson. improvements include spouse protection; required financial assessment; and adding draw limits. all to help make the program more successful for seniors. the reverse mortgage isn't just for people that need it, it's also used to enhance a retirement plan. one reverse mortgage, a quicken loans company, is known for top-notch client service. call now to get a free packet of information with no obligation. a reverse mortgage allows homeowners age 62 and older to eliminate their monthly mortgage payment, and the line of credit is used to build a safety net of available funds in the future. carson called financial health one of the "three essential initiatives for our nation's seniors".

call now to get your free information packet. a one reverse mortgage licensed specialist is standing by!

>> jon: injuries reported after a vehicle had several people in a popular plaza in barcelona, spain. it happened in the neighborhood, sky news reporting a van has crashed into a crowd of people and barcelona's city center. according to local media reports, no word on who is responsible are what the motivation is. more as we get it. authorities in texas say at least ten illegal immigrants died when they were trapped in the back of a scorching

tractor-trailer. now the driver of that vehicle seen here in the middle of the other two, could face the death penalty after he allegedly tried to smuggle 39 illegal immigrant immigrants. casey stegall live in dallas with the latest on this very troubling case. >> the evidence was so overwhelming that the grand jury has now indicted the driver of that truck, james matthew bradley jr has now been indicted on multiple counts, five counts of various charges, including illegally transporting immigrants for financial gain, resulting in death, and also conspiracy to transport emigrants illegally resulting in death. at least some of those charges could carry a death sentence if convicted, but the feds have not yet indicated if they will pursue that option. investigators say he was behind the wheel of that semi truck discovered outside a walmart in san antonio last month, and

jammed with illegal immigrants. they say nearly 40 people in the back of that semi with no air conditioning or fresh air, as temperatures outside soared well above the triple digits. ten people died, at least 20 were critically injured. four of the survivors testified before the grand jury and the lawyer representing them said, i'm quoting here, they came to america wanting just to work, as they could not find a job in mexico that could support their families. the circumstances of what happened brought them to this situation. they were asked to tell the truth about how they suffered and they did. meantime, from the very beginning, the driver has told investigators that he had no idea humans were in the back of that truck, he had been driving it for hours and hours. he claims the 18-wheeler had been sold and he was simply hired to transport it from iowa down to brownsville, texas which is very close to the border.

most of the victims have been released from the hospital and again, this happened at the end of july, but as of yesterday, two of them were still serious enough that they were still hospitalized. back to you. >> jon: unbelievably sad story, casey, thank you. >> heather: some dramatic development and sarah palin's defamation lawsuit against "the new york times." what one of the editors just testified about as we await the judges decision on the paper's motion to dismiss the case. our legal panel weighs end. plus a new danger tied to their growing growing opioid crisis, the risk that it is now causing on the road. >> it's an emergency, it's a national emergency. suppositories for relief in minutes. and dulcoease for comfortable relief of hard stools. dulcolax. designed for dependable relief.

a penny it's ourr back to school one cent event at office depot office max. notebooks! one cent! rulers, glue and 12-pack pencils! all one cent each! hurry to office depot office max! ♪taking care of business

>> heather: breaking down the opioid crisis gripping the country. >> jon: police in wrecking crews assaying addicts cannot wait to get home to get their fixes are overdosing while they drive and sometimes causing deadly crashes. in 2015, there were 7,000 deaths from drug related car accidents in the united states. chorion evans, a recovering addict saying she nearly caused a crash after she took a drug much more powerful than heroin and started to overdose behind the wheel. >> i put it in drive and went on the road.

i remember struggling to breathe, i remember trying to talk to my daughter and she asked if i was okay because she was sitting in the passenger backseat. i said mommy can breathe, mommy can breathe. i almost killed my kids. i could have flipped that car and killed them or killed other people. >> heather: lucky, first responders and one ohio county say they have seen a huge spike in drug related car crashes in just the last three years. >> what they'll do is deal slider on the corner and stop their car with the motor running and shoot up. close to where they purchased. the numbers are just as skyrocketing. i've had as many four, five, or six to bring the back to life, but we must do it. >> heather: the sheriff adding

that they must administer an opioid anecdote to any driver they find on an accident scene. >> jon: a fox news alert and we now have live pictures from that plaza and barcelona, it does not appear to be an awful lot of activity or even concern on the part of those pedestrians, but we are told a van ran into several people in that plaza. there is the first police officer we are seeing and obviously people on their phones, so there is obviously concern. a sky news is reporting that a van crash into a crowd of people there, this is in the city center of barcelona and obviously people are stunned and making phone calls to friends and relatives and so forth. was this a coronary, perhaps a drug overdose like we were just talking about. was it something more sinister? we do not know yet, but these are the first live images we're getting from that plaza in

barcelona. when we get more information, we will take you back there live. attorney general jeff sessions praising miami-dade for reversing its policy on immigration detentions and slamming other cities for their continued defiance, even tying chicago's violence to its refusal to change the century cities. >> these policies do more to shield aliens, they protect lethal gangs. like the latin kings, the bloods, ms-13. these predators thrive when crime is not met with consequences. sanctuary jurisdictions provide safe harbor for some of the most dangerous criminals in our country. that makes a sanctuary city in a

way, it's fair to say, it makes that city a trafficker, smuggler, or a predators best friend. >> jon: joining is now come on nolan klein and nicole debord. what do you think about what the attorney general had to say there? >> i think it's a really tough issue because the reality is that there is no one definition for sanctuary cities. sanctuary cities in chicago may be something very different from what's happening and another city. the reality is that what sessions is asking is for these counties and cities to bear the burden of what would ordinarily be a federal cost of detaining people. some of these cities do not have the budget for it. they hold people on federal cases much longer than that they would ordinarily be held for.

this is a huge budget problem for these places. >> jon: nolan, do you agree? >> going back to the original question, i think attorney general sessions may have been a bit of hyperbole in my opinion, but i don't think the budget is the primary issue as it relates to so-called sanctuary cities refusing to enforce federal immigration law. in fact, marielle gimenez in miami-dade county said they will cooperate. there's a difference between saying i'll cooperate, but it's going to cost some money and i want to talk about that and saying i won't cooperate at all because it's a political issue. enforcement of the law is not a political issue, it's mandatory, whether or not it's going to be politically popular will be a political issue, but enforcement of the law should be something that everyone does across the board and we all agree must be

done. >> jon: a lot of these cities do not seem to be arguing, they argue that it's an expense for them, but for the greater percentage of them, it seems to be an opportunity that they thumb their noses at a federal law that they don't like. >> it may not be an issue of liking or disliking the law and in some cases, no doubt that's the case. in other places, they get a chief law enforcement officer who have to make emergency decisions about the best way to enforce the laws for the things that are happening in their area, to make sure that they stop violent crime, that they keep their community safe. trying to decide whether or not someone has run a foul people were type crimes which in many cases, these immigration cases are is often times beyond independent studies or law enforcement's capabilities. there are a federal detention

centers, there are agencies which are capable and educated about handling immigration crimes and those need to be the agencies dealing with these types of crimes. >> jon: some of these cities flat out refused to tell i.c.e. when they have is people in custody, they just flat out refused. >> that's correct. in fact, i take nicole's point that i.c.e. is the primary agency to enforce these laws, but that doesn't mean that if they come across a criminal who is committed some other type of crime, they might fall under the state's jurisdiction and they might just let them go. the issue here is that law enforcement, state and federal need to cooperate and just because a law might be something that the state traditionally enforces doesn't mean that any law enforcement agencies. through its hands up in the air and say not our problem, deal with it and let someone go who they know has committed a crime

and by the way, they refused to even tell the agency or hold the person for the agency that is charged with enforcement of that particular law. >> jon: there's so much more to talk about on this particular topic and will be doing that in the days and weeks to come obviously as the attorney general tries to crack down on century cities, but we have another topic we want to get to today. we are waiting that judge's decision on a "new york times" motion to dismiss sarah palin's defamation suit. "the new york times" wrote an editorial that seem to suggest gabby giffords was somehow in part responsible for the attack, so nicole, the judge still has to decide, has to rule on the motion by the paper to dismiss the case, what are the chances?

>> this case has suddenly become a little bit more interesting. the recent testimony about the fact that one social media account started to contradict what was in this editorial immediate changes were made to the article. that seems to indicate that it was immediately apparent upon the release of the article that they were wrong information here. the question a judge is going to have to answer is whether or not this rises to the level of negligence for the paper. really, should the paper be publishing something that is so easily discredited by social media within moments of its release? that's a big question in the paper may have a tough row to here. >> jon: it's a high bar for newspapers, they get a lot of protection. >> that is not what's happening here at all. first of all, it's the jury who

ultimately decides whether the paper is liable or not for anything is been accused of, any cause of action that's been properly stated, not the judge. the standing will not be negligence because sarah palin is a public figure, therefore the standard will be malice or willful disregard of the truth. with the issue here is that "the new york times" says even if you take everything palin has alleged as true, she still doesn't see the cause of action. the judge can make certain instances when deciding that motion, even though strictly speaking, she's not allowed to look outside what's called the four corners of the complaint. the evidentiary aerie hearing yesterday was to find out if there was additional information to determine what a fair inference would be in this particular case and with regard to this motion. like you said, he has still not ruled. if he dismisses that, it would likely be without prejudice.

>> jon: as another one will continue to watch. very interesting case. ellen klein and nicole debord, thanks for being our legal panel today. >> heather: worn breaking news news, injuries are being reported after a van jumped to the curb and then hit several people in a popular plaza and central barcelona. this happened in a neighborhood that's in the city center, reports suggesting that at this point, a van crashed into this crowd of people. as we said, there are pictures available online, showing several people laying on the ground in this area. also, the driver that man took off on foot. local police are calling it a massive collision, we also know that metro stations surrounding this site have been closed. emergency services warned against going near the area, that's a quoting to the police.

will continue to follow this developing story again. a van has run into a group of people in barcelona. we'll be right back. ♪ hey, is this our turn? honey...our turn? yeah, we go left right here. (woman vo) great adventures are still out there. we'll find them in our subaru outback. (avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. get 0% apr financing for 63 months on all new 2017 subaru outback models. now through august 31.

i kept putting it off...t get what was i thinking? ago. ok, mr. jones... we're all done. i told you it was easy. with life line screening, getting screened for unknown health conditions is so quick, painless and affordable, you'll wonder why you hadn't done it before. so if you're over age 50, call now and schedule an appointment near you. for just $149- a savings of over 50%- you'll receive a package of five screenings that go beyond your doctor's annual check-up. ultrasound technology looks inside your arteries for plaque that builds up as you age and increases your risk of stroke and heart disease. after all, 4 out of 5 people who have a stroke, their first symptom is a stroke. so call today and start with a free health assessment

to understand your best plan of action. so why didn't we do this earlier? life line screening. the power of preventvention. call now to learn more. >> heather: fox news alert, several injuries reported after a van jumped a curb and hit several people and a popular plaza and central barcelona. this happened in the city center, at least three people were seen injured, there are also reports of the driver apparently has taken off on foot. we continue to follow this developing story and will bring you more as we get it. >> jon: it's not clear whether this is an act of terrorism or something more benign, a heart attack, a case of drunk driving, we do not know that yet. the local media there in spain are using terms that suggest

this was some kind of a deliberate attack according to the website, it is unknown the number of injured and they are looking for the man they call the aggressor. that may be simply a translation difference that doesn't necessarily mean that this is an act of terrorism, but again, it fits the hallmarks of what we've seen. again, people were apparently crossing in a crosswalk according to one of these accounts with the light in the driver of this van simply mowed them down and then took off on foot. >> heather: another local media report is the one that sang this white man has a logo of a car whistle company on its side and you can see video as it's happening of people trying to desperately jump out of the way of this van as it burrows through people there at this

town square. as we say, very popular with tourists, several people just mowed down and left lying on the ground. a scene that has become all too familiar in terms of terrorist attacks, even though as you said, we don't know that that's what happened here. >> jon: amy kellogg is live in milan and has more of what's going on there in spain. >> you can only imagine how frightening it would be to hear the police telling you to run and run and that is according to eyewitnesses what they were told in the area because, as far as we know, the person who was driving that van escaped on foo foot. according to eyewitness reports, people are barricaded inside shops, some of the shopkeepers along the busy road pull down those metal girls to keep it will save we heard one eyewitness say that he was huddled into a cathedral where

dozens of people now are taking refuge. there is a lot of fear on top of the calamity of the fact that several people have been knocked over by this van. train stations and metro stations around that area have been closed off and we don't know whether that's to keep people away from the area or whether it is to prevent the suspect, who apparently fled on foot, from getting very far. it is about quarter of six here on this same time zone in nearby italy and it will be a time that may be sun was starting to subside a little, it's not so hot, people would be out and about walking, getting ready for a glass of sangria. it would be a very busy time on that heavily traffic romulus. we don't know exactly all the details of what happened or how many people have been affected, but we do know it was a massive crash according to authorities and it happened in a country

that has had a relative period of calm. there were train bombings in 2004 in madrid, but we don't know that this was a terrorist attack or whether it was some freak accident, but there is a suspect who hasn't fled on foot. some twitter accounts of saying may have happened near a deli, but that has been totally unconfirmed. all i can tell you is it happened near this plaza at the northern end of last romulus. it's a very famous shopping street that has a rather substantial pedestrian center comments would be easy to imagine a van jumping onto that central sidewalk, if you will. we are keeping an eye on it obviously is closely as they can end for now, that's about all the information that we have.

>> jon: amy, thank you. let's check in with bill gavin, he is former assistant director of the fbi in new york, again, too early to say, some are calling it terrorism, police have not officially made that designation yet, what does it sound like to you? >> it could have been an array of different things, but the driver getting out of the car and taking off, you can rule out medical things of that nature. we can assume it's a deranged individual or a terrorist. the tool of the day is the motor vehicle, this doesn't bode well for anything, it may very well lead to terrorism. in barcelona, this is a heavily pedestrian mall.

some of these events have occurred before in the u.k., and the same kinds of places. we'll have to wait and see, but i wouldn't rule it out immediately. >> jon: remember a couple months back when the most popular tourist destination in new york, times square, was the site of an event like this, a car that ran over pedestrians and killed a young woman in town visiting from the midwest, that turned out to be a drunk driver who is trying to get away from police, so there is always the exception to the rule in cases like these. >> absolutely. this individual running away, one never knows. everything turned up pretty well and any chatter of it might have occurred in the last 24 hours.

>> heather: this is heather childress, i want to share some additional information that's come in, this is from the local news there in spain, this is from tv 3 of spain, they are now reporting this break in development, they are saying there are two armed people in a turkish restaurant with hostages at this point. they are also reporting that they believe they know who the attacker is and he is believed to be from a region and northwest africa, the countries of the net region usually include morocco, algeria, tunisia, libya as well. once again, it does appear that it's developing possibly into something else. this being reported by tv 3 of spain at this point. does that information tell you anything else as to what you think may be going on here where the attacker is believed to be from? >> this shows you more and more people who are now identifiable

as to what the action really wa was. having people from a region and being in a turkish restaurant, none of this bodes well for something other than terrorism. >> jon: we are getting reports that two people were killed in the initial traffic accident, but put under fbi agents, what would be the larger plan here if, in fact, there is this van accident, not accident, but that this van collision is designed to kill people and then this report of hostages taken nearby, this reminds me of what happened not that long ago and, i believe it was, knee and more --

is a possibility that their overwhelming police? >> whether or not these individuals came out of a truck and went into a restaurant before, one never knows. two things are going on right now. number one, they have to contain the situation, that's for sure and the police will be dedicated to doing that. even if it's a rental truck, who rented it, when did they rent it and trying to trace that all the way back to identify some perpetrators. it's a serious situation right now, but it will be resolved. it's not really readily recognizable. >> heather: what we do know is that this isis magazine issue this article about a year ago, i believe where they suggested the jihadists use vehicles to carry out successful lone wolf

attacks, saying they should use vehicles specifically to plow down a crowd and then to carry a secondary weapon, which as you said, would fit with what seems to be developing in this scenario today. >> it's a difficult set of circumstances. the motor vehicle is the weapon of choice. so to follow somebody on foot, it's a secondary attack that they are trying to carry out. the police activity and addressing the situation from one point to another, they have to address all of it. >> jon: of bill gavin, thank you for sharing your expertise today. again, on screen, if you're just joining us, there has been a terrible collision and a tourist plaza in barcelona, spain. the spanish newspaper is reporting at least 20 people injured and at least one dead.

there are the reports of as many as three people killed, but also there is reports that gunmen are holding hostages in a turkish restaurant nearby. whether that began concurrent with this automotive assault or whether it is something that began afterwards, perhaps the van driver who ran away from the scene after crashing into the crowd of pedestrians, that driver may be one of those gunmen who is a holdup apparently inside this restaurant. again, it looks like a very serious situation just developing in barcelona, spain. you're looking at live pictures on the left-hand side, on the right-hand side, the plaza in barcelona with assault took place, is a very popular tourist destination, las romblas, my spanish is not particularly good, but i think it implies the pedestrian walkway that sits in the middle of this boulevard with shops and tourists, restaurants, and stores, and so

forth on either side, that's where this took place. tom rogan covers of foreign policy for the "washington examiner" and joins us now. it's too early, i supposed to call it terrorism, but it has all the hallmarks. >> it does, indeed. the first take away is that you see the spanish police reaction to what happened, clearly great concern that that is the case. the degree to which this individual or individuals have left the scene, obviously you know there are other reports that have been ongoing. the broader issue is that barcelona has generally been on a high priority target list for the islamic state and other groups. we are going to have to play close attention. >> jon: we appreciate your

expertise. this is the big story of the day. we will have continuing coverage now. >> heather: "outnumbered" search right now, will be back in one hour. >> harris: we continue our breaking news coverage now. what we are looking at now is the open area and spain not far from me shopping district. it will be careful with our lingo until we know what we are talking about. the word "terrorism" has been talked about, but not confirmed. here's what we do know. a white van jumped to the sidewalk in las romblas which is a district of stalls, and shops.