soldiers. we will bring every development as we get them from. that is it for us. we will bring over to "the five" in new york. hope you join us tomorrow at 8:00. have a great night. ♪ [indistinguishable chatter] [bleep]. [bleep]. [indistinguishable screaming] >> what happened?

oh god. >> kimberly: hello, everyone. i'm kimberly guilfoyle, those images are an are an all-too-familiar scene, another terrorist attack, streets covered in blood in the heart of europe. just before 6:00 p.m. local time in barcelona, spain. a white van jumped the sidewalk and purposely mow down tourists and residents on the city's most famous street killing 13 and wounding at least 100. isis has claimed responsibility and two suspects are in custody, but authorities say there is a manhunt underway for the van's driver. and in late-breaking news, the ap reporting that the spanish authorities have just shot and killed four suspects involved in a separate alleged terror plot south of barcelona. today's terrorism is just the latest in the wave of attacks in europe where a vehicle was used to target innocent civilians with other similar incidents

happening in recent years in france, germany, and the united kingdom. greg, sadly we see this happening over and over again, especially with increasing frequency over the past year, get your thoughts and reflect on what has happened here and i said is claiming responsibility. >> greg: we always talk about how we need to keep an eye on this thing. we are talking about north korea and identity politics. there is an x essential war going on, and it is not internal, it is not in the united states, it is external. we are killing each other over statues, statues do not move. terror moves. and this is a world war, we are at battle. we are at a future for this world. it is not about identity. online statues, terrorism is malignant. it moves, we need to fight it together. what worries me is about how we look at terror now as something mundane, like extreme weather, because we get a dozen dead here, 15 dead here, we've become accustomed to the pattern of it.

we reported for about 72 hours, then we move on, and we get confused about how many there are, because there are so many. we have to understand that we will look back at this era as a good old days, because once technology anti-terror married to heather and you have the drones and the bioterror, it is going to make 9/11 look very, very small. and we have to understand that right now during this -- this is a prelude. we are talking about an apocalyptic war that will go on for possibly our lifetimes. we have to take it seriously part of the world has to. >> kimberly: i will be taking it seriously, we will get your reflections on this today. >> melissa: i disagree with greg a little bit. i see the commonality with this and what happened in charlottesville. aside from the car involved in both of the spread if you look at the tapes that martha maccallum showed us last night. you think about what fuel someone to feel such inhuman hatred for other human beings,

is it pure evil? how do people get radicalized like this when you're talking about neo-nazis or isis, to me it looks like the same sort of unfathomable problem where you have people who want to wipe out total strangers in the most literal way that it is not even human. we cannot even relate to it. but you have to find a way, i don't know, somehow to stop people from feeling this way, because they will figure out how to kill people no matter what. >> greg: one is a religious doctrine that is seeking a dirty nuke? >> kimberly: also north korea into the mix. we see this happening in europe, but we should pay attention in a really a cute way as greg is saying, because this is a global terror threat. and if anything does not bring people together combinations together to coalesce, to fight against, what else will? >> jesse: i agree with greg and melissa, something -- people offended by a statue seem

really, really out of touch. at the same token, you have the real fascists are there in barcelona. isis is the real fascists, so if they want to fight fascism, maybe they should go over to syria. the left named and ashamed at the ideology the attacks in charlottesville, they will not to name shame the ideology between the attacks in barcelona, radical islam, instead they want to say the van attack, perpetrated by a fan, no, it was a driver of the van. on cnn, wondered if it was a copy copycat crime on the heels of charlottesville. the statues, they have to come down, let's go kill some people. it is insane. these vehicles are now a pattern, but also showing two things. one, it shows how effectively have been. you are not seeing the spectacular sophisticated attacks concerning airlines and

technology like that. you are seeing more crude attacks with cars. into those can be just as deadly and disgusting. there is a video floating around, we shouted at the top of the show where all the dead bodies are pixilated. i saw it on pixilated by accident. at first i thought it was a mistake, but no, not a mistake. sometimes it is good to watch the grotesque nature of the evil that we face. because it reminds you about the enemy that we face. and it also shows how indiscriminate the attack was by going after innocent civilians, like punching a baby, the baby is not guilty, it cannot defend itself. you are seeing the targets come under attack in europe, i hope that this is going to speed up the war on terror, you remember what happened after the madrid terror attack, the spanish government pulled out of the bush terror coalition thinking that the terrorists would leave them alone. obviously, they are not.

>> kimberly: all right, juan, very disturbing what is happening today, and in europe, just really getting pummeled with one terror attack after the next. now barcelona. >> juan: yes, a very interesting moment, because spain after the prior attacks actually hardened so much of their infrastructure. their transit, especially the trains come after that previous attack. but they have a high level of surveillance. they been very aggressive with terrorists. they arrested nine back in april, they have heightened the security. and in parts because of our success, the united states led coalition success in places like syria and iraq, what you are seeing is isis now morphing, maybe i should say metastasizing like a cancer going elsewhere, looking for soft targets like this like the concerts that we saw in paris or london. >> kimberly: the path of least resistance. >> juan: that's what we see her. i disagree with greg, i agree

with what melissa said. when you see hatred growing in a society or globally, you have to be aggressive about it. >> greg: did i not say that? >> juan: this is widespread and this is what you picked up on, jesse. when you see hateful statues in your society, you should not just leave it printed now, we would not have that kind of thing. >> jesse: but my point is statues do not move and they are not killing anybody. >> juan: but people who killed that woman in charlottesville were moving, they were in a car much like this guy. i don't know about copycat, but i'm telling you that's what it is in use. what we heard from the acting secretary of homeland security elaine do, we are not only going to help out the spanish, we are going to try to be tougher here at home and want to prevent this thing from happening in the united states. the question for miss duke and all of us is, how do you deal with someone who gets a car or a

truck, and suddenly slams into innocent people walking down the street? i don't want to accept this as a new normal in my life for my family, for my friends here on "the five," that is not acceptable or irrational to say to alain duke and president trump, stop it now. i don't know where these people come up, the liberals, the democrats don't care about this. boy, have we spoken to it as an american people that we are not tolerating it. we should not accept it as a new norm. >> kimberly: melissa, how do you relate and react to tow juan's comments here? before i'm at a loss for how you react against it. it seems like we part and what targets we can, they find a new way to attack. if you're just going to rent a vehicle come can we stop people from renting vehicles, they are going to steal the vehicle and ram it into other people. you have to find the root cause of what is causing the hate and the radicalization to spread. what is the root cause?

that is a problem that no one can solve. >> jesse: the root cause is the ideology, that's why president trump went over to saudi arabia and gave the very impactful speech earlier this year when he said, we need to drive out the wicked ideology from the middle east. and he tried to enlist leaders locally and on a governmental level to help do that. because until they do that in their own backyard, you're going to continue to see them spread and spread into europe. and eventually the united states. >> juan: what is interesting here, we are talking about spain tonight and the terror that took place there. spain has become a transit point for the terrorists coming from around the world. that's right, jesse, they are using spain as a point to get into places inferior flaming syria and iraq, and that's why now you see more and more of these kinds of events existing in spain. i don't think that we can say, spain has been lax, no, they have been tougher. it is still going on.

>> kimberly: annual greg, you will discuss more inner monologue on how to prevent terrorism. but if you are somebody who lives in barcelona and you see the attacks in other cities throughout europe, people are able to move freely. >> greg: the thing as an american when you travel through europe, since 9/11 how disturbing, because i am already neurotic, but i am constantly thinking like a terrorist. when i am sitting, whether it is a double double-decker bus in london, on vacation somewhere on a train, i am appalled at the lack of security. i will not say where i was a few weeks ago, but i was -- there was no security, and i was amazed that any backpack person can tell you how easy it is to go through europe, it does not matt who you are, they are not checking. it is just easy to travel. so people ask or wonder how

america can be so worried about their borders and worried about mass migration and what we are trying to articulate at the risk of sounding like bigots is that we are worried about the needle in the haystack. we want to have the extreme vetting exist because of things like this. we want to know who these people are when they come here so that we can reduce this. >> kimberly: is it unreasonable? this is what president trump campaigned on a national security, securing the borders and making sure that we are to the extent humanly possible impenetrable from these types of attacks on u.s. soil. we have seen them happen, we have seen them happen. that is part of the extreme vetting, people call it the travel ban, et cetera. and now you see it coalescing again, another real-life example. >> jesse: luckily america is separated by the oceans, thank god. on the southern border with mexico, that's why the wall has to be built. have you ever had a terrorist

cell come through mexico into the united states, i bet half the democrats in congress would vote to tough on the wall. greg was saying you can float freely throughout the european continent, that's because the european union allows that. that's a different mentality. they decided to do that. they voted on that. americans do not understand that. moving away from the nation-state, going into the big economic system, getting away from what they have seen in the last century. that is pardon borders and nationalism, but when you lose nationalism, you lose safety to an extent. you are not going to protect nationalism with borders and border security, then you will see this happen. that's what terrorists are taking advantage of. >> juan: i think that type of thinking -- i appreciate it, because i think we are on the same team. we want to stop terrorism, but that thinking is outdated in the sense that the way they ideology is being communicated is through social media. it is to being aimed at young

people, for the most part, and especially insecure troubled souls who do not know what they are doing. may be subject to some crazed ideology, or anger at a different society. and they think they are going to be a martyr, a hero, i'm going to fight. i don't know what they are thinking, but they go off. that's why you see them moving around and then going to the battlefield. and now even not going to the battlefield, they are reading some of the magazines and to the terrorist magazines have been going on for the last few months about the use of vehicles, trucks in specific. >> kimberly: really quick, catherine herridge is waiting. >> greg: kwon mentioned a myth that this is spread by the internet, it is not true. it is who you know. if you look at the close circle, actually people you know, it is not necessarily picking people off, that it's very rare. it is who you know. >> kimberly: same when you do gang analysis any part of the

board, they look for the tentacles and who your associates are part of the united states government is monitoring the developments in spain. the chief intelligence catherine herridge is here with the very latest from author washington. >> i want to take a moment to just connect some of the dots for people at home so that they can understand the bigger picture of what has happened in the last 24 hours paid we had the van attack and barcelona. but now we understand that an explosion in a town about 100 miles southwest called alcs directly affected. if they thought that the explosion last night was just due to a gas leak, but on closer inspection, they realize the building had been flattened because they found at least 20 canisters of butane and propane, so it appeared to be a bomb making factory. and you know from your experience investigating these styles of cases that once a

layer is removed and the plot is exposed, the individuals start to scatter. and they move quickly, not necessarily on their own timetable. so we had the attack and barcelona, and now we have confirmation this evening of another terrorist event in the town of cambrils, which is in between the two locations. it is a coastal resort, police there are reporting that in the early hours of friday, their time, a white van rammed pedestrians on a boulevard, one of the walkways along the ocean, they injured people, and then when they were confronted by police, there was a shoe to down, and four people were killed. so we have three very significant events, spanish police are saying that at least two are connected. and to the third, they are also describing tonight as a terrorist plot, kimberly. >> kimberly: we will take it around the table. we have some questions for you, catherine.

we will begin with greg. >> greg: i was just wondering, i probably know the answer, but i want to ask if u.s. intel had any information or knew of a cell like this or had any hints that these people were operating there? >> well, i know for my reporting today through a counterterrorism contact who does a lot of tracking of extremists on social media that spain has not really been part of their online conversation in a very big way, but in early july and isis affiliated telegram account posted specifically about the barcelona. they used the language that was very threatening. this was considered so significant that it was flagged to some of the law enforcement agencies. spanish media is reporting that there was a specific warning from the cia to authorities in barcelona. and that la rambla, the promenade in the center of the city, the equivalent of time stare --

times square, what we can say tonight is that there was a growing body of evidence either from social media or the intelligence stream that to these groups were getting very focused on the port city of barcelona and to what consider y symbolic high profile target in the center of that city. >> melissa: catherine, it's melissa melissa francis. we have three locations, three events, i understand that there were two people in the custody, what do we know about the perpetrators? the original van driver, what do we have? >> the picture today, the latest information coming from spanish police is that at least two people are in custody, but not describing them as the driver of the van in barcelona. which leaves open the possibility that this individual is on the run and under

pressure. you have to consider that the person who drove that van was willing to die today. so they would be extremely high risk. especially in the hours that they are trying to track them. we also know that someone was injured in cambrils, the seaside town that i mentioned earlier where there was another attack according to spanish media with the white van targeting pedestrians on the coast. another person was injured. we believe that they have also been taken into custody. and a for the individual was in the explosion at that home in alcanar. this is the town that is about 100 miles southwest of barcelona. they may also have pertinent information. >> kimberly: jesse? >> jesse: so the cell right now, pretty clear that it is a cell, do we believe it was operating under the direction of isis leadership in syria? were they operating independently? were they copycats? what do we know about coordination? >> the spanish authorities have

described both incidents, the one in barcelona, and the one this evening as terrorist attacks or terrorism related. they are not to use the word sell at this point, but you are quite right in your analysis that there are moving parts that it goes beyond the lone actor or a single individual who was radicalized. especially now that the spanish police have made the connection between the explosion in the home where it looks like it was a bomb making factory or may have been a bomb making facility, and also barcelona. but the key question right now is whether these are individuals who became radicalized by consuming isis ideology online and reading these kind of how-two terror magazines, or if this was something sort of darker and deeper and more complex that it was crafted with the help of isis operatives and then directed by them, either from syria, or may be from libya

where they have a smaller foot prints within where they did a year ago. you are on the right focus where there it was inspired or a self-starter kind of plot or whether it had the hand of isis reaching in and directing the operation. >> kimberly: customer complex detail ahead, coordination. a follow-up and a question. >> juan: i am so interested in the idea that people are going through spain to fight elsewhere, syria, iraq, and the like. is that part of the picture that you can see taking a step back and trying to understand what is taking place and by we have seen more terrorist activity in spain? >> spain has actually not been a big part of the isis social media online conversation in the last couple of years. but that tone changed in the last six months or so when there

were more messages about reclaiming the stake to this territory as a muslim land. and then also the social media post that i mentioned in july. and within the report of the warning by the cia. i would offer you just the idea, because it has often been true in other cases, which is that if a terror group is using a port city as a transit point, they are very reluctant to launch attacks in that area, because they want to preserve it as a way to move the people, move weapons, and to move money. they do not want to attract unnecessary attention. but i think that you are really onto something here. which is the movement out of, not only syria, but i would get people to pay attention to the north africa question as well. libya had really been sort of the second element of the state up until recently. the footprints, isis's footprint has been reduced, but they have a stakeholder command they try

to move people up into europe through those areas. >> juan: you are saying in fact that they are moving from the middle east towards north africa? >> you have two things going on, isis, syria, iraq, and then a four years ago they established a satellite operation in libya. it was kind of like a plan b, like if things went bad for them in syria and iraq, they had a leadership structure in libya. it was a way to shield some of the leadership and use it as a launching pad into europe. now i say that, but in the last year, the special operations forces have done a lot to degrade and clearly reduce the footprint in libya. they have taken out, they say over 3000 fighters that were primarily located in the eastern part of the country. but isis still has a much smaller footprint, but the goal is to use that as a launching pad into europe. >> kimberly: a lot of

information, catherine, excellent reporting as always. thank you so much. >> think of for having me. >> kimberly: when we come back, a detailed monologue on the terrace brain and what we can do from keeping it from happening. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,... ...with reduced redness,... ...thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has... ...no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. tell your doctor if these occur. otezla is associated with an increased... ...risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have... ...a history of depression... ...or suicidal thoughts,... ...or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla... ...reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. other side effects include upper... ...respiratory tract infection and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take...

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get symbicort free for up to one year. visit saveonsymbicort.com today to learn more. >> isis has taken credit for this barbaric attack. whoever is responsible should know that united states over the america together with the allies will find and punish those responsible and drive the evil of radical islamic terror from the face of the earth. >> greg: pretty clear. another terror attack involving a car and a crowd, why is it so common? harder to hit other targets as we said, the tactic is pretty simple. rent a heavy object, hurl it into a vulnerable crowd could even as isis dies, the attacks will go on as long as scum, there will always be martyrs. our response, what is needed is more intelligence, surveillance, and cooperation. meaning an adult grasp of the

freedoms for agility. you cannot be free unless you are secure. that is why we must always try to harden every soft targets. buildings, trains, everything. when you hear commentators remind you of the low risk of attack, they do it from a secure location. you ever see the absurdly large flower pots in front of media terrace, like the one i am sitting in right now. it's not because we like plants, those plants prevent ramming. we sought in charlottesville, what's prevented many more deaths, the stationary car blocking the killer's path. it was for many a life-saving barrier, of course, create a barrier and to the target moves farther out. always vulnerability and those who exploit it. that is the essence of terror. that's why the industry should be bigger than technology or media, because without security, no technology or media. this is what the best and brightest should be studying. if you can major in physics, you should be able to manage clinic

major insecurity, it could be your life's work. as long as there is a toxic doctrine, that work will never end. kimberly, we always end up in the second day of a terror attack coverage, there always is the arguments between freedom and security as if these are polar opposites. and i always maintain that is a fallacy, they are siblings paid one complements the other. i want to head the debate off today. >> kimberly: yes, not two binary choices. not black and white. there has to be a blend. and in order to have a free and safe society, you have to be able to give up some of those freedoms so that you can be properly protected. we need to engage in very aggressive and thorough intelligence gatherings that are lawful and make sure that we understand the complicated terror webs of the relationship. before they go back to. and now it is an international focus. who are they talking to in syria? who is responsible for this?

is it a known association with isis? something from a different group? another type of group that is trying to gain entry into the area? you see with the situation, very tactfully match challenging to prevent something like a car bed and use to create this kind of damage with the number of lives lost, 100 injured. 15 very seriously. and you see this happening with more frequency and regularity because of the success of the terror mission. so they want to copy what works. or they will try to go for the path of least resistance command when they find a weakness that is penetrable, they will take advantage. that's why we have to be vigilant and constantly evolving to match their ferocity of the threat that we faced. >> greg: melissa, maybe i'm missing something, but in college you can study humanities, economics, you can study physics, you can study

mathematics. why isn't security a science? i don't understand why people do not devote -- a, it is lucrative. aunt bea, meaningful. >> melissa: i don't know. i'm sure it is. i'm sure it comes with technology, and coding, all of that. and i agree with you in the sense that i do not mind if you want to search my first. i do not mind walking through medical detectors. i do worry a little bit as we try and look at the technology and who is talking to who. who is planning what, because that's the way to catch people, immediately i'm thinking about what we were just talking about with the obama administration unmasking, various people listening in on calls, when you have the wrong people sitting at the switches and using it for political purposes over securit security. -- >> kimberly: trump associates versus worthing somatic worrying about isis. >> melissa: i worry about the people sitting at the computers. not going down some political event instead of protecting us

against terror. >> greg: jesse, we are the luckiest people in the media, we can talk about all these wonderful issues in nuanced terms surrounded by barricades and well armed men. >> jesse: you're not supposed to tell the enemy that we have potted plants and bulletproof glass. do not even try it. america needs a text search, the google engineer can work for a defense contractor. we need to find and put more manpower onto things like satellite technology, laser weaponry, drones, facial recognition technology. eavesdropping, all that stuff. i think the most important thing is that it is not patriotic necessarily to work for facebook, it is very patriotic to work for something that can protect american lives. we also need human intelligence pretty talked about that too. i would rather have guys, not necessarily americans, because they are going to get busted

pity you need suni arabs to get into the cells and bust them before they're hatched. we need the friends in the region. ultimately, i said that's the last segment, you have to drive the ideology out. we really need them to drive them out. without that help, we are going to see more and more of barcelona. >> melissa: but you said that in the middle, that makes me very nervous, who are you going to lead in the government to eavesdrop on who? >> jesse: they know everything you are texting, melissa. they know everything greg is texting. they know already. but what was happening in barcelona, always more to be done. >> greg: the war will be fine with technology, it is a reality. if you want to enjoy the fun time on "the five" talking about it, you better except that it is the future. juan, another problem, we always talk about if you see something, say something. as you know, if you say

something, you are seen as a bigot. if you report, you think that there is something fishy going on -- >> kimberly: they say a racist. >> greg: how do you overcome that? as someone who has observed things in the past and been nailed for it. >> juan: i have not been nailed forth, clearly i get nervous when i am on a plane, see people dressed in the muslim garb after 9/11. i did not say stop anybody. i hope they went through the same medical detector that i went through. i hope they were searched and properly vetted. >> greg: i hope that they properly vetted you, juan. >> juan: oh, they did. i have tremendous respect for our cia and our intelligence pulled. i think you are underselling how much it surveillance and energy and budget we put into having knowledge about what is going on. >> greg: there is a strategy to the underselling, because i

want more. >> juan: but i'm telling you that we do so much credit to melissa's point, at some point you have to say, are you a fan of big government? are you willing to trust a big government to watch her every step? >> kimberly: that is a libertarian approach? about balancing what they need -- >> juan: in this era, the founding fathers would be outweighed that we have cameras right out here on most of big streets going down in front of the white house -- >> jesse: but now you are ripping down all the monuments. >> juan: i am not dripping down founding fathers. >> jesse: you know what they would say if they saw those cameras? what is that? that is all some! what is that material? >> kimberly: the founding fathers had the intelligence to protect the country. they would evolve. they are not stuck in their way ways. >> juan: when the founding fathers were battling the british, saying, we are going to take your property and know what

you're doing. they were not happy folks. but in this era, protecting us is essential. but it is not to the point where you want to give up being an american. >> greg: the whole point of the dialogue that began was that i was saying we have to stop polarizing the topic as a security for freedom. they are siblings. >> juan: i think we have to have security. that's what we have the airports, you are saying that it is an institution paid by greg understands, if you pick up the phone and you say, hey, wait a minute, i don't think that government should be on my phone if i'm talking to my wife, what the hell is this? >> greg: nobody wants to hear that! [laughter] president trump wing and again on the divide over confederate statues and monuments in america, the latest next. look at that formation. but when it comes to mortgages,

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about confederate memorials and statues around the country. president trump left no doubt about where he stands on the issue tweeting out this morning "sad to see the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments. you....." "can't change history, but you can learn from it. robert e lee, stonewall jackson -- who's next, washington, jefferson? so foolish! "juan, i will start with you. why is this not a slippery slop slope? spewing we were looking at traders to the american flag, and they wanted to take up guns. they did take up guns against the american people. they were succession, and they were fighting for and immoral because defending slavery. so the question to me is not about history, because i love history, i've written history, i delight in it. i would not engage in any effort to change history, revise

history, that is in american history. you have to understand that these monuments are here for the living. and what we have seen is that now they have become a cause for people who are neo-nazis, white supremacist, they see this as a rallying cause. you have to remember that most of these monuments were not even constructed in the immediate aftermath of the civil war. they were put up in the early part of the 20th century when the kkk was marching down pennsylvania avenue, again, to remind black folks of white supremacy. >> jesse: you make a good point, juan. i want to remind you of one thing. all of the statues of the confederate soldiers are democrats. >> juan: to go republicans! rip them down! speak to those were the people fighting for the cause. you cannot change history, but you can showcase it differently. i would support localities voting for themselves what they want to do with the statues. or if you want to erect a

different statue of martin luther king, jason into this guy. i have no problem with that. what i don't like his list. i don't like radicals tearing it down criminally, i might add, that is what the taliban and does pick the taliban and tears down historical monuments. americans do not do that. destroying cultural symbolism is marxism. that's what marxists do, and greg has some information about the woman who tore the stampede he can get to that in the moment. i believe it has gotten out of hand. advice and he put out something about how they want to get rid of mount rushmore, abraham lincoln statue was torched in chicago, abraham and lincoln freed the slaves, so that's by people that are historically a literal a literal it, and hate america, or do not know what they are talking about. for nancy pelosi to come around and say, the confederate statues need to come out of the capital, she has been working there for 20 years, and today she decided that she wants to get rid of

them? >> juan: i think cory booker, the senator who is trying to -- that's why nancy pelosi spoke out, -- >> jesse: where was she the last 30 years? >> juan: this is not a big issue for most people, but at this point -- >> jesse: 60% supports preserving them for the record, so if democrats want to fight the battle, let them trouble fight for jobs. >> juan: it is not identity politics. stephen bannon said that in the controversial interview he gave. he said if left wants to play identity politics and fight the racial issue, great, i will beat them. but you give up your soul. you say, we are not american. we do not look out for minorities. we do not stand for equal rights for all. >> jesse: i still have a soul, juan. >> jesse: that is a tough debate. whatever side you are on on this, and i think that both of you are actually correct on this. which is interesting to me,

because this is a deeper argument than what the people we see on tv are making. the people on both sides of this debate are the worst persuaders. guys with tiki torches, they do not persuade me. they want me to tear the monument down. then when i see these vandals destroyed property, they want me to keep the monuments up. but what the point is, i am persuadable to people that intellectually attack an argument. jesse is right about the opportunism. they were pretty much silent over this during obama, and not over tromp. that reeks of opportunism. republicans and conservatives should not get suckered into the fight. the democrats were on the wrong side of this award. the civil war. they fought to defend slavery, and now they are trying to pretend that defending statues is worse than defending slavery. now try to put your head around that. the fact is that you do not want any part of this. don't let them sucker you into this. let it go.

separate robert e lee, i agree with juan, i don't understand why the statues are there. this is not a slippery slope, i think you can talk about having those removed and have a separate discussion about washington and jefferson, we are talking about the context in history when it was different and bad, different, bad, a slave trade, africans who sold the slaves to white people, we know that this is a very conflicted history. however, however, however, the democrats were on the wrong side of this war. right now they are relitigating the war and pretending that it is republicans that are defending slavery. >> juan: this is a different time, but i want to say first ball how incredible that the party of lincoln would somehow get confused about this issue. >> greg: i think the democrats were very smart and getting them in this corner. they can't, they saw an issue that they could spring on him and they knew that there were suckers i could go for it. >> juan: there is something bigger in the water with a white

supremacist movement growing in the country. >> greg: i think the camera is growing. >> kimberly: that movement story, small in number, i think it is heinous and despicable. and no one should even try to explain it. it just disgusting. it has no place in america and in this country. we have come so far. i choose for us to join and be together and not fall prey to this divisiveness and this vitriol into this hate. that is the bottom line. >> juan: can i hug? kumbaya. >> melissa: up next, al sharpton is at it again. you will not believe what he is saying now. stay with us. sports trophies then. sports trophies now. sports trophies have changed, our standards haven't.

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>> juan: president trump's warning that if americans take down federal monuments, soon he argues thomas jefferson, george washington, both slave owners will have their memorials toppled pretty if you listen to al sharpton, he has something to say. mr. trump may be right. >> do they take down the jefferson memorial? >> i think that people need to understand when people that were enslaved and robbed of even the right to marry and had forced

sex with their slave masters, this is a personal justice. when you look at the fact that public monuments are supported by public funds, you are asking me to subsidize -- >> thomas jefferson? >> the public should not be pained to oppose somebody who has that background. >> juan: this is where i jump off the ship, because to me thomas jefferson, sally hennings, and all of the people that you want to talk about, founding father, thomas jefferson, he has written into the document some things that i find heartwarming, in fact, inspiring to this day. so i don't see that. but now i listen to him, jesse, and he has a black person in america feels personally offended that he has to pay to support this man's monument. what do you think? >> jesse: i think we found the one thing that al sharpton does not want the government to spend money on. we found it. listen, if there is a statue of anybody that sins, then we have

to take down bill clinton's presidential library. where do you stop. stop. where do you stop? are you going to tear up the constitution, the declaration of independence? at some point it is enough. >> juan: i will stop there, but melissa, the key point here is that i think al sharpton is saying we all played to them and pay tax dollars, shall we support something offensive to a segment of the population? >> melissa: i love his idea of being able to select things that you do not want to support with your tax dollars. my list, i could go on and on and on. i will start with the irs and keep going from there. the irony of al sharpton talking about being mad about his tax dollars going somewhere, we could all make the biggest list on the planet about that. >> jesse: what are we going to do, rename the capital, al? >> kimberly: that's next, just like the football team. >> jesse: we thought that

redskins was a bad part of washington redskins paid what are we going to call it? >> juan: no, i'm fine with the washington part. washington is a great hero of mine, i don't like the football team. >> greg: i'm skeptical of the slippery slope until we get into the area, because now it is pretty slippery. al sharpton should not talk about public funds. he still owes money to the people that he put the lives in ruin? the hoax, he was sued, i don't know if he has paid all that off yet. >> kimberly: he should bring back the tracksuit for the interview. what about the tax it is? >> juan: but deal with the substance of the argument very quickly. >> kimberly: i think that al sharpton is constantly trying to poke the cage, he is a sensationalist. he is trying to bring sex into it. i do not give a lot of credence to what he has to say. i think he inflames situations and also has prospered false

narratives in the past. not saying that this is, but i have no bid for him. >> juan: i think he is sincere, but i disagree with him on jefferson. i remain a big fan of thomas jefferson. more to come, "the five" returns in a moment. ♪ hey, is this our turn? honey...our turn? yeah, we go left right here. (woman vo) great adventures are still out there. we'll find them in our subaru outback. (avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. get 0% apr financing for 63 months on all new 2017 subaru outback models.

's before we want to extend our condolences to the loved ones of the 13 victims killed in barcela today, we pray for them and they injured in the massacre oversea.

stay with the fox news channel for continuing to filament throughout the night, sean hannity is up next. ♪ >> sean: thanks to our friends on "the five," this is a fox news alert. we are following three major breaking news stories denied a massive terror attack in spain. a van was used to viciously mow down and murder innocent people in a crowded shopping area. we have the chilling video tonight, it is just horrific. 13 are dead. in what police are calling a terrorist attack. president trump saying that the u.s. will do whatever is necessary to help and also tonight according to a brand-new report, he tells republican congressman of california the dnc documented that he published did not come from