♪ y"y"y"y"y"y"y"y"y"y"y"y"y"y"y. we'll see you tomorrow night. tucker is up next. ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." southeast texas remains a dangerous place at this hour despite the fact hurricane harvey has moved on. a chemical plant in crosby texas is racked with explosions and fires after a critical refrigeration system failed in the storm. a hospital in beaumont has been forced to evacuate his patients to protect them from flooding. also worked in the state, recovery efforts are underway. vice president mike pence stop by for a while to help out. america may have to brace for another storm, though, on the horizon as hurricane irma, gaining strength at this hour in the atlantic, possibly headed for the united states. not expected to do so, we'll be tracking it, keeping you updated

on the ongoing situation in texas. kamal balla, is among other things, a host on cnn. he host a show called "united states of america." he calls himself a political provocateur for that doesn't quite capture it. in fact, he is a supporter of antifa. on sunday, he showed up at the no hate in the bay rally and addressed a crowd with a bullhorn. your room or the event, the one where mobs and black masks attacked people they thought might have voted for donald trump. bell offered his encouragement. >> would this b-17s left, as they left, -- by, nazi, buy, you have to stand up for the black people, the brown people, the lgbt out people, for everybody, every day. >> tucker: keep in mind, this ironically named and they hate rally was created to oppose the

patriot prayer event organized by joey gibson. we've had him on the show several times. gibson is not a nazi. he's not even close. his politically moderate. antifa attacked him anyway. they knocked him off his feet, pepper sprayed him, smashed him in the head with a pole. last night we talked to a man called keith gamble. he's not a nazi, either. he just happened to be standing at the event with a camera. antifa thugs knocked him to a ground and began pummeling him. they might have killed him if a conscientious liberal had it shielded campbell with his body. joey gibson and keith campbell are normal people. they believe in american ideas, like free speech and free association. that is why antifa attacked them because antifa does not believe in those things, or for that matter, and a liberal democracy or capitalism. i hate this country, they want to tear down. they are totalitarians and their beliefs, and in their aims. even if they didn't use violence, antifa would still be illegitimate, and a threat to america. none of that seems to matter to

kamau bell. he's happy to stand up on stage and called his opponents nazis. that's not a label use on people you want to debate. it's a label use to incite rage. he had to know how this would end. he did it anyway. the days since, bell has not apologized. on twitter, he issued a statement saying he wants a world safe for "black people, brown people, lgbt people, immigrants, refugees, muslims, jewish people, pagans, unitarian universalist, mormons, disabled people, poor people, mentally ill people, all people of color, sikhs, palestinians, homeless people, all people affected by the hurricane. climate change scientist, public school teachers, freedom fighters completely caught up in the criminal justice system over b.s., minimum-wage workers, open my curse, and even white people, especially the white allies in the berkeley streets today and the white half of my children." that's a long list but not everyone, as you'll notice, got equal treatment. imagine if we spoke at a rally

where right-wingers and masks tried to kill people they disagreed with, hillary voters, may be. then we issued a statement saying we were working on behalf of whites, christians, gun owners, taxpayers, maybe some black people, especially those about a republican. how would that go over? to show would be canceled quickly and it would deserve to be canceled. if you are not willing to say you want a world safe for all americans, equally, you are peddling hate, and bell's. we contacted cnn to see if they had any response to another anchor stroking violence extremism as a side gig and they have not responded so far. we also invited bell on to see if he'd be willing to defend what he did. he wasn't. joe conger writes about media for "the hill." he joins us tonight. so, joe, we couldn't get a response out of cnn, a little odd for a news organization to refuse to comment about something. is this within bounds, though? for one of their hosts to be addressing a rally like this

with people and black masks, antifa? >> let's be clear who antifa is. obviously, they are a group that even nancy pelosi has denounced. laura ingraham on this network has suggested they should be labeled a terror organization. berkeley's mayor has called them a criminal gang. this is not a group that you want any network hosted within a thousand yards of at a rally addressing. there is a hard and fast rule out every news organization, tucker. that is that hosts cannot, or journalist, reporters for that matter, cannot attend rallies or speak at rallies that its newsroom may be covering. it's a conflict of interest. as a whole bowl of wrong and it's something that cnn needs to address and actually give antifa a simple out kamau bell -- an ultimatum. you're an activist or a host. it reflects on us and make them look bad. i hope that have a conversation. van jones, a pendant on a host

on a wow network, as well plug, he spoke at a rally one day afts inauguration, january 21st, the same rally where madonna said that she wanted to blow up the white house. nothing was done then with van jones. i doubt anything will be done with kamau bell, as well. a conflict of interest is simply very difficult to ignore for a major international news organization. >> tucker: they'll say, kamau bell is not a journalist, he is a contract employee who hosts a weekly show for us. you know, that might be good enough for me to be completely honest, if they this were just a normal political rally. but this was a rally, which the people who were speaking too broadly, wound up committing serious acts of violence, sending people to the hospital, trying to beat a guide to death who we interviewed last night. this seems very different to me from talking at the jefferson jackson dinner, you know what i mean? the palm beach democratic party. this is -- these are crazy peopo are espousing and committing violence. >> there were 14 arrests here,

so obviously, this was something that turned violent. we see the pictures. they speak for themselves. this is obviously -- if you are doing this is an activist, i have no problem with that. cnn has done the right thing in these situations, as well. you remember kathy griffin holding up the fake severed head of president trump and she was fired. she did the new year's broadcast with anderson cooper. you remember reza aslan, kind of the same way kamau bell did, nevertheless, he was fired for calling the president a pos on twitter. it will be interesting to see where cnn goes with this. if they are not responding for comment, i would imagine that they have no problem with it. the silent speaks for itself. >> tucker: this does seem like it is crossing some kind of line and i don't think they'll respond to it because then you would have to answer questions like, do you think this is a legitimate group? is it okay to come to a political rally dressed in a mask and smash people in the face with weapons? you don't want to deal with

that. they will ignore it. >> by the way, i'm very surprised, i know nancy pelosi, she has denounced this group but maxine waters and adam schiff, one may last checked, they are congress people from california, and they haven't addressed it. i probably think it is hard for them to get on television. you rarely see them two interviews. i would imagine that is why they haven't -- >> tucker: they are never asked, because from the point of view of most hosts, it is a good versus evil, our site is good -- it's grotesque. they will regret it because these people are a danger to them, as well. there was an exchange this morning, i want to get your take on it, between chris cuomo, the morning show host at cnn and kellyanne conway from the white house. here's how it went. >> whether or not what happened at harvey and why it's happening and why these storms happen open up a discussion about the role of climate change. as the president, his administration opened a conversation? >> chris, we are trying to help the people whose lives are

literally underwater. and you want to have a conversation about climate change? >> imagine if we could figure out why 100 year storms seem to happen every other year. >> you play amateur climatologist night and i will play professional help or to in need. >> tucker: [laughs] what you make of that? >> two things with that. it was an unbecoming question because there are still search and rescue going on. also, there are these things called post-storm attribution studies, tucker. they have to pour over data, i've spoken to meteorologists and a climate scientist, for weeks and months to determine why this storm i have happened and why it is the damage it did. you can't ask that question until the studies give you a definitive answer. >> tucker: yeah. you are saying that science is complicated? you know what it is not comp located preening. it is very simple. [laughs] i'm a good person. you are not created joe, thank you so much. >> enjoy your holiday weekend. >> tucker: you, too.

rogue cnn hosts aren't the only people taking the side of antifa. two professors are working to recreate what they call a campus antifascism network. it's national. its goal is to "drive racists off campus." laura beth nielsen is a professor at northwestern university. she supports the creation of this network and she joins us tonight. thanks a lot for coming on, professor. i appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> tucker: i want to take this seriously because i think is a serious matter. first, just tell me, what the point of this network is. >> i should say, just to be perfectly clear, i'm not affiliated with the campus antifascist network. i am a scholar of free speech and campus hate speech and those kinds of issues. i looked at their materials and i think their purpose is to try

to -- what they say their purposes -- i have no reason to disbelieve them, is to help scholars of political theory, political science, and history, to develop the kinds of courses about the history of fascism to help college students make sense of what they are seeing in the news today and to try to interpret what's going on politically. >> tucker: okay. i love the term scholar because it is so rarely applies to people who work in colleges. i went to the syllabus and i read a lot of the pieces on here. here are some of the titles. "u.s. cops and clan, hand in hand." star-spangled fascism. anti-semitism in the white house under donald trump. those are not scholarly articles, a lot of them are on just left-wing websites, political websites. i decided to take it seriously in a red one. here is the peace and anti-semitism. this is why this piece in the syllabus by the group you are

supporting says donald trump is an anti-semite, because he gave a speech saying this. "workers in the united states are making less of a me 20 years ago, yet they are working harder. we have seen the first hand of the wikileaks documents, hillary clinton meet in secret with international banks to plot the destruction of american sovereignty in order to enrich these global powers for special interest friends and her donors." that pease says that phrase is anti-semitic. and holds it up as evidence that the president is an anti-semite. that is insane. that is not scholarship. that is just lunacy. >> tucker, i don't know the article you are referring to. i should say that the syllabus that they put up is open source. anyone can go on there and add an article. one of the things i like to teach my students at northwestern as how to evaluate -- >> tucker: that's not a syllabus. >> exuded peer-reviewed? no, it's a set of ideas of scholars that are trying to talk together about how to organize these classes -- >> tucker: there is no

scholarship. that's the point. there is no scholarship in there. >> is not a peer-reviewed publication? >> tucker: no. it's not peer-reviewed. >> are you sure? >> tucker: i'm positive. >> the political science review or a journal review or history... >> tucker: out of them when i have. here's the invitation letter -- yeah, you are defending -- so -- >> i looked at it this afternoon! >> tucker: maybe we are looking at something different. i think i was looking at the same thing. i'm quoting from the invitational letter to this group. "fascists have use blatantly racist and ablest messaging and iconography to recruit their ranks and intimidate students." they are allies? who does that mean? it seems to me like they are tarring anybody who voted for trump as a bigot.

>> no. i think what they are trying to say is -- what you just reported are read from the letter is an empirical question. as scholars, we want to know if that's true. we want to look to the research about hate crimes and about incidents of hate speech and try to understand if there is something -- >> tucker: know, they are stating it's true. right? >> but i would say, that's an empirical question, the fbi keeps hate crime statistics, i would take my kids right to look at those -- those were linked on there. so where this southern poverty law center. >> tucker: what is the ablest messaging and iconography that trump supporters are engaging in? what is this mean? it is so nonspecific that it seems like pure political propaganda to me of the least impressive kind. do not see that? i don't see any scholarship at all and i read the whole thing. >> i would say there is definitely a place in political theory, political science and history, for understanding the

roots of fascism so that we can understand if we are having a precious moment on what antifascism is. one thing i see quite a bit is a deflation of antifa and antifascist and anarchists. anarchists and antifascists are different political philosophies. anarchists don't believe in order. they are out there doing street violence. they, maybe they are being incited, we could talk about the free speech issues with that, but being antifascist means that you don't support a totalitarian government that bases -- crushes loyalty on the basis of -- >> tucker: that is what is so silly about this. whatever you think of the administration, they are not crushing opposition, in fact, opposition has grown in a way that we have not seen in my lifetime in this country. if it is a fascist government, a fascist movement, they bring about a drop of it, are they? >> i think there has been an

increase in hate crimes and hate speech toward different groups that you mention since the election. it's pretty well documented by both the fbi and the southern poverty law center. >> tucker: whatever. the southern poverty law center. you know what? if you are going to -- "i am a professor" and you cite the southern poverty law center, that is so self discrediting, i don't know what to say to that. >> you can replicate it as a social scientist, you can replicate their research. they put it out there -- >> tucker: it's not research. as political propaganda. i read it every single day. it's like one guy's opinion working out as political beliefs. there is no scholarship or not. go to the website. if you think that scholarship -- i don't want to send my kids do her school. no offense. >> i'm sorry. i think it's important to emphasize that most americans are antifascists. with the history of fighting fascism, the american military

was involved in world war ii, that was violent antifascism, defeating hitler. and so, insofar as there is a discussion about, if that is where we are moving politically, to understand the history of it. >> tucker: they can learn the history of world war ii but this just seems totally hysterical to me. professor, thanks for coming on. >> sure. >> tucker: we have a lot more on the southern poverty law center coming up. they are not a legitimate group. after the break, james gallagher joins us from texas with new developments on hurricane harvey and its aftermath. also, took a republican senator jim called me was writing up hillary clinton's exoneration before the fbi completed its investigation or even interviewed her. an amazing development on that story. i didn't know where i was from ethnically. so we sent that sample off to ancestry. my ancestry dna results are that i am 26% nigerian. i am just trying to learn as much as i can about my culture.

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>> tucker: this is a fox news alert. a chemical plant explosion contaminated water, add more evacuations in texas denied. thousands still fleeing the devastating effects of hurricane harvey. for all the developments today, fox news trace gallagher joins us live from houston. a lot going on, trace. >> we should note, tucker, vice president mike pence was in corpus christi this evening, where hurricane harvey made landfall six days ago by the vice president is doubling down on the presidents pledge that the government is in this for the long haul. 100 miles east of us in beaumont, texas, the water levels are still rising but there is no clean drinking water because the two pain pump stations got overrun today. here in houston, the water levels are going down in some places but as you can see behind me, they are rising and others

and people are still being told to pack up and get out. watch. over the past couple of days, we have been doing rescues and bows and blackhawk helicopters. is the first time we have actually been in a truck. a military vehicle that has been able to go through water about . there is a dual purpose to this mission because what happens is, these people who live in this neighborhood are not necessarily in danger, and if they want to be rescued, they will take him out of here. but some of the people have chosen to stay behind. clearly, if you stay behind, there is no way for you to get in and out. what the harris county sheriff's department has done with some volunteers, they are actually bringing food to the people, things like pizza and water. i guess the object is to keep them alive. >> yes, sir. some of these people were still trying to take things out of their houses, they are hungry, and they are thirsty, and we had a lot of water and food and we have been able to give them a lot of it as they are trying to bring things out of their house,

still, as the water is so high, there is still attempting to bring things out. >> they are at the mercy of the reservoir in these areas. in other words, the rise of ours are so packed, they don't let water out on the dam bus, everybody floods. they had to let a ton of water out so that only certain neighborhoods flood. these people thought two days ago, tucker, they had dodged a bullet and clearly, they did not. tucker. >> tucker: clearly not. trace gallagher on the scene all week. thanks a lot, trace. fired fbi jim comey may have met all the last year's election even more than we already knew. what we can senators chuck grassley and lindsey graham say they have found proof that comet exonerating hillary clinton of wrongdoing in the email investigation even before the fbi finished the investigation or even bothered to interview hillary. the president of judicial watch joins us tonight. can this be true? >> it's incredible. it shows the investigation truly was a sham. comey came out and said that he

made a decision in july. his deputies were interviewed by government officials and they said that he began drafting the statement in early may, maybe even early as april. before they interviewed 17 key witnesses, including clinton, remember, they gave immunity to all those witnesses and everybody was outraged. now we know why they give immunity because they were going to not prosecute anybody. why get in the way, why let testimony or grand juries get in the way of this sham investigation? give everyone immunity and just proceed. >> tucker: and attempted investigation. i am really fascinated by this part of the story, which i can hardly believe is true. there is evidence apparently that the fbi helped pay for the dossier on donald trump, the russian dossier that was published ultimately and buzzfeed? cannot be read? >> they started paying the expert behind the dodgy dossier. >> tucker: during the campaign? the fbi helped pay for research

on hillary's opponent? >> that's right. the firm evidently -- >> tucker: we know that's true? >> we are trying to get answers about that. we ask the fbi for documents about payments they made to the author of the trump russian dossier. they came back to us and said we can't even confirm or deny whether any such documents exist. so i don't know who's running the fbi. i do. but it certainly not anyone with the interest of the american people in terms of getting some transparency about the misconduct of the fbi during the obama administration as they were working to really nail tromp through this really awkward and conspiratorial relationship with the authors of the trump dossier. >> tucker: if that is true. you hear the barking about fascism, fascism coming to america, it is armed organizations about the fbi, for which i have respect, but if it turns out they have -- they are this growth, this is something you should worry about. >> you have comey protecting hillary clinton while targeting

trump at the same time. that is the intervention in the election we need to be investigating. if i were president trump, i would order the doj to do an audit of both the fbi and justice department were up to last year, including reviewing the handling of the clinton investigations and yes, the handling of his investigations, as well. he's a victim here about the american people are, too, because they were abusing the political process even more so than the russians. >> tucker: i don't even want to believe that. i am shocked by it. thank you, tom. the southern poverty law center is not a simple nonprofit trying to protect america from extremist hate groups. not at all. cnn says it but it's not true. the organization is complex and is trying to shelter cash in the cayman islands. a lot of it. we'll take you through the

>> tucker: the southern poverty law center, which is focused on neither of us are thrown poverty nor the law, where they enough, aspires to be america's supreme arbiter of what is and what is not a hate group. plenty in the media have been able to treat them that way despite ample evidence the group has an overriding political agenda, , and a gender that distorts all it doesn't make the deeply dishonest. now, documents obtained by the "washington free beacon" reportedly showed that the splc, officially based in alabama, has been off shoring millions of dollars in assets to account located in the cayman islands because that sounds legitimate. the writer at the free beacon

who broke the story joins us tonight. joe, why are they sending money to the caymans? >> i can't answer that question. i tried to get up at the account and hung up on me, they did not. we can't really speculate on it. >> tucker: there accounted hung up on you? >> the person who prepared the forms, i called and said i'm looking for the forms, and i thought -- you'd think -- mother conference, they would hand over forms. you just that i don't comment on clients and hung up the phone. >> tucker: board of the possible reasons, if you are the splc, and you are basically america's moral judge, okay, what would you be off shoring money to the cayman islands? is there a good reason to do it? >> i cannot answer that question. >> tucker: it's already a nonprofit. it is because the reasoning behind it, i couldn't speculate on. it is unusual. a lot of people that i spoke to said it was unusual, there are million dollars going to the cayman islands. they have interests in the british virgin islands as well

as bermuda, but we can only find a segment of 2014 numbers that show the 5 million. so there's other segments, the british virgin islands of bermuda, we don't all the amounts on that. they also have ownership in foreign corporations. each corporation that they have ownership in, they don't meet the threshold of ownership reported on the form. a tax form. >> tucker: it's a little confusing when you look at these numbers, $328 million in net assets. why would the southern poverty law center amassed more than a quarter billion dollars? >> they make all their money from the hate industry. what they do is, in the 1970s, they served a legitimate purpose. they won a lot of landmark civil lawsuits, for civil rights. flash forward to today, the spring far left. they are known for the hate math, as you know, which contains conservative groups, mainstream conservatives group, along with racists like the kkk. this turned into a windfall for them.

their leadership, the top people in management, they average probably around $300,000 and pay. >> tucker: $228 million? if you really care about making america a better place, why wouldn't you give that money to the dispossessed or marginalized communities of color, the ones they are always talking about? >> another great question. >> tucker: is a totally fake organization. thanks for your reporting on it. the splc supposedly exists to fight hate groups now it has also turned his attention towards statues, which being nonliving, of course don't hate anybody. they can't. they have no soul. they are made out of plaster and marble. they have published a map of every single confederate memorial in the country, from statues to army bases to middle schools. the assisted editor over at pj media and he joins us tonight. what is the point of this list? >> thanks, tucker. the point of this list is so that he can defame organizations with which they disagree. they'd like to label groups hate groups. they put the family research

council on there, alliance defending freedom, ministries, these are christian organizations who believe in traditional marriage. that marriage is between a man and woman. and that is the reason why they are listed as hate groups. >> is ridiculous. here is with their press release says. more than 1500 confederate monuments and communities like charlottesville with the potential to unleash more turmoil and bloodshed. it is time to take them down. that sounds like a threat to me. >> it certainly does. the worst thing that they put middle schools, elementary schools, high schools on this list. no student deserves to have to go to school when there is a violent outbreak of protests. no student deserves to walk to school through rocks -- >> tucker: of course! that is -- stonewall jackson middle school, and a southern poverty law school says

bloodshed might result because of the name of the school, that is ominous! has there been any pushback at all? >> there are three lawsuits that are going to the system right now. the dj kennedy made ministry, the liberty counsel, and there is one more from actually a musm who has been targeted by radical islamic terrorists and has spoken out against them. his name -- she's been listed -- >> tucker: he's one of the bravest and most articulate people i've ever met and the fact of the southern poverty law center are morally bankrupt, fraudulent in every sense, is calling him a hater is really an outrage. >> anti-muslim extremists. >> tucker: a guy who grew up in islam. i hope he wins that suit. tyler, thanks for joining us. a lot of people are struggling in america but can't we all spur some concern for investors? they are hurting, say some. up next, we'll talk to a

nonprofit head who is trying hard to keep a tax break that helps investors but nobody else. plus, the latest breaking news in houston. flooding and still cause causing

>> tucker: it's no secret that america's middle class is in trouble. if you're wondering why our politics are so confusing and intense, that's why prayed in the past decade, their earnings have stagnated, their debts have grown dramatically. the investor class has done really well. really welcome a better than any group of people has ever done in world history. nothing wrong with that. but they've collected almost all the income gains since the end of the 2008 financial crisis. they are not a bad group of people but they are not necessarily in desperate need of help. stephen motley is the president of -- he was running an op-ed for "town hall." he is being considered for elimination as congress works on a tax reform bill. he joins us tonight.

i don't think anybody is going to argue that getting rid of the carried interest loophole is going to balance the budget. >> $11 billion. >> tucker: can you see why it's infuriating for wage earners? i earn a really high wage, but i am still a wage earner. even for me. i am thinking, wait a second, here is a guy in private equity or running a hedge fund who is paying literally half the tax rate i am paying. why is that fair? >> because a lot of the money he is managing is our money. it's a long term investments by people like us who would like to retire at some point in our existence. we invest now to retire later. when we collect that -- when we start cashing out what we've been investing, i would like to not pay the income tax rate all over again. i find the capital gains rate infuriating. you earn the money, you pay

income tax, you pay social security tax, medicare tax, property tax. if you have any left over after rent and groceries, and you happen to invest some, and you get crushed all over again when you cash out? i just find it infuriating. >> tucker: i am not for higher taxes. taxes are too high. but it's a relative measure, okay? someone who is in private equity are running a hedge fund is paying on the money he makes, not money he invests committees are in some cases, performance fees. okay? he's paying half the tax rate because he is in a job that has very effective representation in washington. lobbyists. >> we know what is going to happen. there is no one in government half as intelligent as the people on wall street. so whatever blunt force instrument government tax rate you want to apply to them, they are going to find a way around it just as they have done with these fees at all of that. >> tucker: then why not -- a

flat tax? why do we tax capital of half the rate of labor? >> we want to incentivize people -- >> tucker: what about working? our tax rate reflects what we think is virtuous and simple. that is why we tax cigarettes -- >> you know the freak show that it is -- and forgetting his name -- >> tucker: i know a lot of freak shows. >> i was on our tea and he was arguing for equal rights between capital gains and income tax an. lower the income tax -- >> tucker: i am for that. to be totally clear, i'm not arguing for higher taxes. what i'm arguing for his fairness. if my neighbor inherits a bunch of money entities all home smoking weed and tending to his portfolio, he pays half the rate i do. is he twice a go to person? what is this? >> you are arguing from a leftist perspective. >> tucker: i am arguing from a fairness perspective.

why is it fair -- >> life isn't fair. life is impartial. >> tucker: working is virtuous. >> i couldn't agree more. >> tucker: it is good for people to work. the government shouldn't punish it. >> then let's lower the income tax rate for its me when i am totally for that. >> but i don't want to fall into the leftist track argument which is, beat the hill out of the rich because they inherited money -- >> tucker: i'm not saying that. i am saying stop discriminating against people who get out of bed in the morning and work. that is a dignified thing to do. we have a huge class of idle rich people. i am not imagining them, okay. >> you and i can walk hand in hand out of the segment's a lower the living daylight out of the income tax. i am totally in agreement with that. what i don't want to do is fall into the leftist trap >> you and i can walk hand in of viewing capital investments as something that's bad.

>> tucker: i am for capital investments! will people stop telling me that it is twice as virtuous as working. that would really infuriates me. >> you are imposing virtuous nest. >> tucker: why do cigarettes cost 20 bucks a deck in new york? because we think smoking is immoral. >> conversely, if we want people to invest and save, which is what we all want them to do, why do we want to increase the capital gain on -- >> tucker: all i'm saying is working is every bit as good. i would argue even a little better than investing. is good for your soul, it's good for the country, it's good for our middle class. >> i think somebody who is day trading and investing a lot of money all the time and creating wealth for people go in and say i have a small business idea and i need a long, think those people shouldn't be viewed as inherently bad just because -- >> tucker: i'm not attacking them. i am just saying -- i appreciate working people. >> i i live in blue-collar hea. >> tucker: [laughs] i know. >> i have plumbers and electricians all around me.

i am a huge fan. >> tucker: great to see you. black lives matter activists to say the best way for white people to fix racism as to give all their stuff away to black people. we'll talk to a supporter about wyou always pay your insurancet on time. tap one little bumper and up go your rates. what good is having insurance if you get punished for using it? for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. liberty mutual insurance. tempur-pedic helps there ayou get the most day... out of every one of them. only proprietary tempur material precisely conforms to your body. you get up to twice as much pressure relieving power, so you won't toss and turn. and tempur-pedic is the best

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>> tucker: and a piece for a paper in louisville, black lives matter organizer offered some tips for defeating racism and it reads like a mix of a book and your third grade christmas list. telling people to give their homes away to black people and -- jazmine rand is an attorney and a black lives matter supporter and she joins us next. thanks a lot for coming on. >> thanks for having me prayed >> tucker: the core premise of

black lives matter, i am totally for it, i don't think that police brutality is acceptable or brutality of any kind, actually. but it seems to be the one thing we don't need at this hyper charged divided moment in american history is public figures encouraging more division, encouraging us to think of ourselves as members of a group first instead of americans first. this piece seems like a perfect example of that. here is the second recommendation for making the country better. "white people, if you're inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family. you are bound to make that money in some other white privilege way." that is attacking people. right? helping you before that? >> first, i don't want my words taken out of context. i don't agree with every bullet point of the list that she's drafted. however, i do understand the under lying messages and principles. i think the underlying message or the principles are something

important from our nation to understand. you and i both grew up with white privilege, which means we didn't have to think about race first while growing up. that is not true for many african-americans and for many latino people. i think we need to acknowledge that important and distinct difference. >> tucker: let me stop you right there. you actually -- what you are doing is making a generalization based on race, which is a textbook definition of racism. you are assuming that a person's race is the most important thing about him. there are plenty of white people in this country who grew up with no privilege at all and there are a lot of black people, including some of my neighborhood, who were very privileged on great people. a person's race is not the important thing about that person. you seem to think it is. >> i completely agree. once again, you are putting words in my mouth. that's not what i said it all. what i wanted to say before i was cut off is that i think that the issue in our nation is more an intersection of race, poverty, national origin. there are multiple factors that

are coexisting simultaneously that, as a nation, we can no longer pick apart and say, you know, make generalizations based upon black-and-white because poverty is such a big issue in our nation. you're right. i'm a first-generation generation college student so i can completely appreciate what it's like to grow up slightly above a property line and how hard you have to work to put yourself through school. but what she is saying, she's making an extremely important point that it's undeniable that still in our nation today, african-americans remain some of the most unprivileged groups. native americans are among the most unprivileged groups who do not have access to the education, to health care, the college university, equal opportunity, and the ways that many white americans do. what she is calling upon white americans -- >> tucker: slow down. hold on. first of all, she's addressing this to white people. okay? which, by its nature, is divisive and i would argue racist, as if all white people

have something in common and it's meaningful. they don't. at all. a recent arrival from new zealand has nothing in comment with my kids. that the premise itself is false. and yet, she is basically saying, give your house or your possessions to someone of a certain color. again, she's assuming that a person's color is the most important thing. why would you want to be in the same world as someone like this? why would you defend this? i don't understand? >> again you are saying that i am defending her bullet points. i'm not at all. talking about her letter is not productive for our nation. but we need to talk about is the underlying principles for letter and what it says. she is saying that power never concedes itself, white people do have a responsibility. when you see racism, when you see the racism in the workplace, it is our job to call it out, as it is a black person's job to call it out. >> tucker: okay. i agree with. why not just say "people." why are you and why is she using

people's race as a category? why not say "americans." if you see someone say something ugly, -- why are you referring to people by their race? i don't understand. >> because, again, you wouldn't understand because you live with white privilege. you don't understand what it is to be in the position of an african-american woman who has faced -- >> tucker: look, i'm trying to take you seriously but i can't. what you are telling me is that our education system is really bad, actually. bad, actually. jasmine, thanks for joining u whoooo. i enjoy the fresher things in life. fresh towels. fresh soaps. and of course, tripadvisor's freshest, lowest... ...prices. so if you're anything like me... ...you'll want to check tripadvisor. we now instantly compare prices... ...from over 200 booking sites... ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want. go on, try something fresh.

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speak out this is a fox news alert, southeast of perilous this hour even with hurricane harvey finally gone. a chemical plant is being wracked by explosions and fires after harvey disabled the refrigeration units.

meanwhile a hospital in beaumont has been forced to evacuate sick patients to protect them from approaching floodwaters. that's it for us, "the five" starts now, we'll see you tomorrow. ♪ >> jesse: hello everybody, i'm jesse watters along with kimberly guilfoyle, juan williams, gillian turner, and greg gutfeld. it's 9:00 in new york city and this is "the five" ." ♪ >> jesse: we begin tonight with our continuing coverage of the utter devastation caused by hurricane harvey. some areas in texas received over 50 inches of rain creating what one scientist is calling a once in every thousand years flooding events. president mike pence visited with storm survivors in texas today and president trump is donating $1 million of his