part. thanks for being with us. see you tomorrow. ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." hurricane irma is one of the strongest storms ever measured in the atlantic ocean and now it's making its way through the caribbean.to south florida residents haveng already been ordered to evacuate, governor rick scott of florida is warning the storm is more powerful in 1992's hurricane andrew that devastatet parts of that state. rick reichmuth is our chief meteorologist at fox, he's been tracking irma since the very beginning, he joins us now. what's it looking like? >> very dangerous storm, potentially for florida, certainly in the short term, turks and caicos and thehe baha bahamas. i also want to show you, take a look at this, tucker.th three hurricanes out there. jose out in the atlantic, that

one is going to get very close right here to the lesserse antilles by saturday, the area that was just raked by this cat 5 storm. kind of insult to injury right here. there's another one there in the gulf of mexico, that was going to move into mexico. that cat 5 right there, irma a that we are concerned about. w this is a radar image. righted there, you can kind of e two i walls, going through a replacement cycle. this is the thing that happens with these large hurricanes.r the strongest of these winds just offshore. great news in puerto rico, we'd seen some hurricane force gusts but i think the worst of it is going to spare puerto rico. watch what happens throughout the day tomorrow. turks and caicos, a direct hit from this. bahamas getting raked by this as well. and we start to see the path of this change. in the short term, this direct west motion, a little bit north of west and then a hard right turn. we cannot say with any degree of certainty where that hard right turn is going to happen. big impacts, or deviations of this, will cause a big impact or

less impacts across florida but the best guess at this point is the eastern side of florida certainly having maybe a direct hit, if not watching the storm go all the way up the shore. very similar to what we saw last year with eric and matthew, maybe making a second landfall somewhere around georgia or south carolina. a lot of oxygen has gone to florida the last couple of days. watching this very closely as well. >> tucker: can you put this in perspective for us? how big is the storm? >> so one thing is size of storm, another thing is strength of storm. as far as size, it's probablyhe about a medium-sized hurricane, although i think because the pressure is continuing to drop a comment we will probably see it grow in size by the time it gets towards florida. size is one thing, as of right now the strong winds extend out about 50 miles from the center, the hurricane force winds. where the hurricane force winds are isn't a huge area just yet but expect to see that widenshe out by the time he gets here. this pressure is very low and as

far as the strength of those winds, they are extreme. second strongest winds ever there in the atlantic basin. you were hearing a lot of people say the strongest ever, that is the open atlantic, that is not including the gulf and caribbean. you put that altogether and it's tied for the second strongest winds, the highest we've ever seen in the atlantic. >> tucker: thanks a lot for that. hurricane irma made landfall in the u.s. virgin islands today causing widespread damage. in advance of the storm's arrival, the territory's governor ordered the national guard to prepare for the coming catastrophe by suppressing certainal constitutional rights. an executive order issued on tuesday, governor kenneth mapp empowered the guards to seize guns and ammunition from citizens, all to maintain public order after the storm. the order echoes a similar one issued by the mayor of new orleans prior to hurricane katrina. the nra is already threatening legal action over that order.

governor mapp joins us now. governor, before we get to thes question of your order, give us a quick update on the conditions of the virgin islands tonight. >> hurricane irma did go through the u.s. virgin islands with the most severe winds and catastrophic winds going through the st. thomas, st. john district islands. we experienced sustained winds of at least 150 miles an hour with gusts in excess of that. we've had damages to our hospital, firefighting stations. a good number of homes have lost their roofs. we are doing that assessment. we are i think about 20 to 30-mile-an-hour winds as it makes its way out of the virgin islands, so we are doing that assessment. i must really say that the federal partners of fema, the d.o.d., the trump administration, president trump, and his team have really been a true good partner and really helping us as we go through this event.

tonight, we are beginning to mobilize resources into the territory. we will have aircraft landing on the big islands, the airfield has just been cleared to take military aircraft to position assets. priority in the st. thomas, st. john districts. shelter, nutrition, debris cleanup, hospital evac as we had catastrophic damages in hospital and security. >> tucker: we are certainly rooting for you, it's a beautiful place. why does confiscating citizens guns make this catastrophe better? >> let me say, first of all, that is just a complete and incorrect assessment. i did not order or authorize the national guard to seize any weapons from any citizens and i do not have the power by the virgin islands law or by the constitution of the united states to seize weapons from citizens via the military.. this order is a standing order that most generals receive.

it says it empowers the general to seize arms, ammunition, explosives, incendiary material, it means the general, if they ds not have sufficient weaponry, they would go to anyplace like a store that they could buy that stuff, meaning they have the right -- he has the authorization to spend government resources and acquire it. it's the same example of when the government seizes property. we don't seize property without due compensation for the property owner. >> tucker: i'm a little confused. i'm reading the order right here and it says that the general is authorized and directed to seize arms, ammunition, explosives and incendiary material. you're saying -- >> that may be required by military forces. it doesn't say anything in here about taking weapons fromay citizens -- we have no authority, i have no authority under the u.s. constitution or

virgin islands law. as you can see in the order, it references sections of the virgin islands code. there's no authority in there to seize any property from a citizen, particularly arms or ammunition. our national guard -- >> tucker: hold on. i'm reading it and it doesn't make any distinction at all between citizens and i don't know who else, noncitizens. >> that is exactly the point.be when you mobilize the national guard, the general is authorized to ensure that all of the resources that soldiers require that she has, or he has, authority to get them. not to go into people's homes and get them but to get them as the government acquires property in the open market. this order, this language, this law is for the mobilization of rollout of national guard units.

>> tucker: just to be clear, i want to explain this in a way that our viewers can understand. what i hear you saying is that you're national guard soldiers might not have enough guns, so they might need to seize them?m? is that what you're saying? >> no. under the circumstances and mobilizing the national guard, the general is authorized to do what is required to have the proper munitions and resources for the national guard. the virgin islands national guard has an armory that has all kinds of equipment and ammunitions and arms. this order, written by me, is referencing the code of the virgin islands and as you canth see in that paragraph, it references almost eight different paragraphs in the virgin islands code. none of those paragraphs give any authorization for the national guard or the government to seize weapons from citizens. >> tucker: so this is seizing weapons -- because, i mean, again, i've read this order twice.ec

you're saying this gives them the authority to take weapons that the government and the virgin islands already owns from armories? >> let us assume that some circumstances came up at the national guard, it needed some munition that was not within an armory. if that munition was available in any retail store, the national guard, the general would not have to go through the procurement process of the government to purchase it, she could go in there and buy that right off the rack because she's doing, or he's doing, what is required to retrofit the national guard. this is not about seizing anybody's personal property. >> tucker: so it's not about disarming the population. because as you know, when hurricane hugo rolled through the virgin islands in the late '80s, there was a lot of chaos and violence and law enforcement in the virgin islands were not able to cope with it and people were getting hurt. the federal government had to send the u.s. army down there.

>> with all due respect, tucker> in 1989 when hurricane hugo went through the virgin islands, 98% of the homes and buildings on the island of st. croix lost their homes. there was never any experience of hurricanes in the u.s. virgin islands prior to that time up until 1929. police officers and lawt enforcement people were scrambling in terms of what they were going to do in terms of sheltering the family and all of that rain. there was disorder. but there was no seizure of any weapon. >> tucker: i wasn't claiming there was. i wasn't claiming there was an imperative, i was just saying that law enforcement was not able to protect its citizens, that's why the president sent the army in.en bottom line, i just want to be clear. you are not taking anyone's guns away. >> let me be crystal clear, i have no authority under the virgin islands law as written and passed by the congress, nor the u.s. constitution, to seize weapons from anyone.

nothing in this order gives any authorization to the national guard. or the general to seize weapons from any citizen. >> tucker: i appreciate that clarification. it's not at all clear from reading it. but we are grateful that you told us what it means. thanks, governor. >> i've got to get back to my rescue operations. >> tucker: i bet you do, thanks for joining us tonight. mark steyn is the best-selling author and a frequent guest on the show and he joins us now foa reaction to all that. mark, i don't know if you sawn that segment with the governor, it's hard to know exactly what he was talking about but he seemed to say that under no circumstances would the national guard be seizing anyone's arms. >> it was a fantastically obfuscatary interview despite your best efforts.y it does make the point -- by the way, if i was a resident of the u.s. virgin islands, i would not be altogether reassured by that

performance because i think, as we've seen in the last couple of weeks, the difference between what happened with hurricane harvey and what happened with hurricane katrina is actually the confidence and competence of the local officials there on the ground. i would hope that when he has more pressing aspects of this phenomenon to attend to that he is slightly more clear on what his intention was and the reason for it. >> tucker: i covered hurricane katrina, i was there right after the storm and the then-mayor ofr that city, who i think is now in jail, confiscated the guns of citizens in the city and the police melted away the second the levees broke and there was widespread crime, some of it violent and horrible. maybe the lesson is you do need to protect yourself when a catastrophe hits. >> yeah, i think that's absolutely true. i think in the best

circumstances it's what we have seen in texas, that it's an alliance between the state and individual citizens, doing what they can, as with the cajun navy and so forth. that is certainly going to be true when it's out in the f caribbean. we all know that if a hurricane hits the caribbean, you are better off in the bahamas than in haiti when it hits. you're better off in barbados than in cuba.it the problem here is that that applies to u.s. jurisdictions, too. i hope the u.s. virgin islands comes closer on the texas end of these things than the new orleans end of these things. >> tucker: i hope so, i was a little confused by the end of you. stay with us if you were coming hillary clinton's book is about to come out. she still blaming everyone else but herself for the defeat. we got new excerpts in the book just leaked today, looks pretty interesting actually.

corporate leaders, immigration activist, the media, all teaming up to to announce the decision on daca yesterday. what motivates their outrage?at we'll we are toxic to supporterf daca just ahead to try to find out. where the heart beats warm and true, that's texas. where we always welcome you, that's texas. where we always find a way, that's texas. ♪

grandma's. aunt stacy's. what are the reasons you care for your heart? qunol coq10 with 3x better absorption has the #1 cardiologist recommended form of coq10 to support heart health. qunol, the better coq10.

>> the use of my email account was turned into the biggest scandal since lord knows when. they covered it like it was pearl harbor. this was the biggest nothing burger ever. i inherit nothing from the democratic party. comey was more than happy to talk about my emails but he p wouldn't talk about investigation of the russians. i also think i was the victim of

a very broad assumption i was going to win. there's all these stories about guys in macedonia who are running these fake news sites. >> tucker: i was the victim, you can sum it up in that phrase. t hillary clinton last may laying blame everywhere except forra herself for her defeat in 2016. her book length take on that campaign which is called "what happened."ng it's about to come out and she changed her thinking, apparently not. she takes some responsibility for defeat apparently but later falls back on blame, of course, sexism, for unpopularity. "what makes me such a lightning rod for fury? i'm really asking, i'm at a loss. i think it's partly because i'm a woman." mark steyn has written many books that do not involve blaming others for his problems. he joins us tonight. do you feel people discriminate you because you are a man? >> i blame you, tucker. as far as i can see, you are about the only person that

hillary clinton hasn't blamed.r i don't know how. this is extraordinary to me. every hurricane from hurricane a to hurricane z includingy hurricane bernie, hurricane biden, hurricane macedonia, hurricane sexism, have all just gathered to rain continuously for two years. it's extraordinary to me that the democrats have not had a quiet word and say, i know thatt you need a new book, but why don't you just all do hillary clinton, tips on being a grandmother, hillary clinton cookbook, anything would be better than just revisiting. it must be -- the only people it's good for, as you say she blamed the macedonian content farmers, and it must be good for macedonian tourism like new zealand afternd "lord of the rings" came out. there must be people booking vacations in macedonia right now

saying i've got to see it -- it's a pilgrimage for the people who took out the most inevitable presidential candidate in history. if macedonia is fully booked, i will go up to burlington, vermont, and see bernie sanders. >> tucker: she wasn't going to write "deep thoughts by hillary clinton," the shortest e book ever written. have you noticed how the most entitled people often see themselves as victims? this is someone for whom, whos obviously didn't become the nominate on the strength of her own achievements, which were i don't know, what? wrecking libya. i don't understand why she sees herself as put upon it when i think objectively she is just the opposite. >> i think that's why people did not warm to her, because she was the entitled candidate. she felt like she was owed it for having suffered through being married to bill clinton and being in the white house for bill clinton.

i don't think people were sexist about her and i don't thinkk people anywhere in the developed world -- i sat through prime minister's questions in the australian parliament a couple years ago when the female prime minister julia was being hammered by the deputy leader of the opposition, julie bishop, now the foreign minister. they were going at it, hammer and tongs, they were both women who have reached the summit of their respective parties on their own merits. what nobody liked aboutct hillary clinton was that she was not an obvious candidate except in the sense that she felt she was entitled to be the candidate. >> tucker: it was a hereditary deal.>> i wonder going forward if you see hillary clinton as the standard-bearer for the democratic party ten years from now. is there hillary-ism? does any part of her endure? >> i think the opposite. i think that's where they attack on bernie sanders is not going

to work for her. whatever you feel about it, thet democrats are trending in a bernie-like direction, that's where the enthusiasm is. i think there's absolutely no doubt in that respect that the party is moving left and hillary has no ideological or philosophical worldview that's going to outlast her candidacy. that was true from vapidity of her campaign. whatever you feel about bernie sanders, and she calls him now, bernie, the one who iso promising everybody every pony, whatever you feel about that, bernie sanders is where the democrats are headed and they will barely remember the hillary candidacy.. >> tucker: that's a deep point. that's exactlyat right. i want my pony. mark, thank you as always. >> saddle up, tucker asked max giddyup! much of the republican establishment all in an uproar over the presidents suspension

of daca. we will talk to two supporters of that program and have brit hume break down the political situation. we will be right back. ♪ if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve. all day strong. when only the best will do... tempur-pedic delivers. tempur material provides up to twice as much pressure relieving power, so you wake up feeling like a champion. through september 17th, save up to $500 on select adjustable sets. tempur-pedic sleep is power. to make something original... ...has grown into an enterprise. that's why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. now, i'm earning unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase i make. everything. which adds up to thousands of dollars back every year...

...and helps keep my passion growing... ...in every direction. what's in your wallet?

iso being cool comes naturally. on car insurance, hmm. i can't decide if this place is swag or bling. it's pretzels. word. ladies, you know when you switch, you get my bomb-diggity discounts automatically. ♪ no duh, right? [ chuckles ] sir, you forgot -- keep it. you're gonna need it when i make it precipitate. what, what? what? >> tucker: big swabs of american media and corporate elite have condemned the >> tucker: big swaths of american media and corporate elite have condemned the administration's announcementth yesterday suspending daca.

boy, they really hate it. president obama's program providing work permits to illegal aliens who arrived in this country as minors. some of the strongest backlash is in tech, microsoft hasas already announced it will fight as hard as possible to block the deportation of illegal immigrants hired at the expense of american citizens because of course microsoft is now its own country.y. what drives all this anger? the editor in of reason, the libertarian publication. welcome to you both. since you are ati libertarian, let me ask a philosophical question, do we have an obligation to put the interest of american citizens ahead of the interests of immigrants? >> no, i don't think so. in particular --o. >> tucker: american citizens don't get priority? >> in this case, i don't buy that these things are in conflict. >> tucker: i think it's fair to ask the question, though. in general, you don't think that american citizens are to get meaningful priority over aliens? >> i don't know what this means to say meaningful priority over aliens.e american citizens benefit when people come here come over here

and raise families here. it is absolutely the case that these dreamers in particular are going to add to our economy, add to our culture, make america a better place. >> tucker: none of that iss necessarily true. those are massive assumptions that in some cases are true, in some cases are false. if you could determine, in a specific case, if there's one job and you have a choice between someone who came here illegally and someone who was an american citizen, wouldn't >> you could ask similarly, do i favor protectionist policies. do i think if a job could be here or in china, is it morally better for the job to be here? the answer is no in that case, too. >> tucker: i just -- i vehemently disagree w with you t i want to be rich know what your position is on that.rs this is not an abstract question because there are a ton of unemployed americans. almost 100 million, actually. not all of them want to go to work but i think we could all agree that more of them want to be working in our. why would we be issuing any work permitsto to anyone from outside the country until those people have jobs?

>> i think i have more faith in the american people maybe than folks who think they need a hand up or a special place at the front of the line. i think americans are exceptional. i think we produce exceptional people who can compete withho folks that are coming into the country.pe >> tucker: they are unemployed right now is what i'm saying. i thought liberals were cared about that. >> some folks obviously -- what is to say we should favor people were unemployed over people who currently have a job. i think that you get to acu plae when we are trying to create classes of people that when we permit that to happen, that ultimately swings away from our favor. >> tucker: it's really simple. we have a lot of people around the world who want to come here and work in the united states for a bunch of different reasons.e we also have aa bunch of americn citizens who were born here who do not have jobs, were not working. that's bad. why would we give any work permits to people from other countries while we still have americans who aren't working? i don't understand.y >> i think in this case, we've already done it. c we have 800,000 kids who only

know this country, who have these work authorizations and we are about taking them away. you want to talk about what drives my anger -- >> tucker: we're talking about continuing it. no one disputes, it's a tough question. i don't want to oversimplify. >> i know that you are a caring person. >> tucker: i actually care about americans more than i care about illegal aliens. call me crazy, does that make me racist? it makes me pro-american and ii don't understand why nobody seems to care. the idea that the more immigrants we have, the better off we are. if that's true, then why isn't california richer? california is poorer than it was 40 years ago when it was totally overwhelmed by immigration. why is that? >> surely you know that the onl thing happening in california in the last decades was not immigration. regulation has gone up, entitlement has gone up. >> tucker: because of immigration. it swung the legislature to the left. >> we are talking about mostly mexicans, right? 80% mexican. we're talking about safe 500,000 mexicans, lower rates of

incarceration, higher rates of education. they contribute, they are a typical dreamer. >> tucker: they don't have higher rates of education. that's not true. >> have to have a high school education to qualify for the program. >> we're talk about daca here.h that's absolutely true. they have to. >> tucker: that's totally false. >> what's more, we are talking about the dreamers, there is an absolute,, very, very clear situation in which these people are the kind of immigrants that even people like you who are essentially restriction nests should like. i've already been assimilated.il >> tucker: some are not individuals. people are nervous because of chain immigration. you let one person and all of those relatives come too. that's a real thing. a what's an appropriate level of immigration into this country, how many people should we let a in? >> call me crazy but i believe the american idea that we are a place for people who are downtrodden, abused, can come --

>> tucker: so everybody wantsnt to come? what's the limit? >> we have systems that are broken, an asylum system, for example. we need to focus on fixing those things that we can determine -- >> tucker: how many should we let in? it's not a hard question. like, how many? we could get to a billion people by the end of the century really easily.ur >> if we had a billion people in america, america would be unstoppable.>> that would be amazing. >> think about driving force -- think about the economy. >> tucker: you noticed that our economy has become less impressive over the last 40 years. but the main thing that has happened is the massive change due to immigration. you don't see the connection. >> do you think it's evench remotely, possibly true that a bunch of people who came here, brought by their parents, mediaa age six years old, who are now 22 years old, have jobs that pay, i don't know, $18 an hour, that is the problem with americ america? >> tucker: i don't think that's the problem. i think our broader immigration service doesn't serve american

citizens. we areoe out of time. thank you. planned parenthood has weighed in on daca because every left-wing organization must express the same views on everything. the president of planned parenthood. issued a statement. "here at planned parenthood we firmly believe that every persot has the right to live." [laughs] apparently the batteries and planned parenthood's irony detectors failed.d brit hume joins us now. i think this actually is do with all these people but i don't think there is a complicated debate in process. i see a lot more outrage and preening and yelling and name-calling. why don't we have a real debate? >> first of all, i take yourur point about planned parenthood, talking about everyone having a right to live. a >> tucker: pretty wonderful. >> pretty hard not to choke on that. beyond that, what strikes me besides the melodrama, if you look at it for longer than just a few seconds to realize a

a few seconds to realize a couple of things.s. one is, of course, that this dreaded event is not going tos, happen. if it ever does, another six months, which means congress has time to legislate this if it will. and the president opens a huge trapdoor in the whole thing when he said yesterday that iff congress doesn't act, he's prepared to revisit the issue. it's pretty clear that he doesn't want to do this.is he felt for whatever reason, not least probably the fact that daca's constitutionality is deeply suspect, that he neededit to draw a line. it seemed clear to me that if congress does not act, that he's not going to do this. he's not going to go forward with it, he will delay.do built into what he proposed anyway, the potential for delay in individual cases and so on. my guess tonight is that none of these 800,000 or so will ever b. deported. >> tucker: i would bet my car on that. more broadly, and it's still early, the president is not turning out to be as tough on

immigration of a lot of his critics beard and supporters hoped. >> that's right. i think he would like to get something for his willingness to go along with the signing of a bill that would make daca legal. maybe he would like to get some wall funding or other measures to toughen up our border enforcement. that sounds like the shape of the kind of compromise that used to be common in washington. >> tucker: is that even possible now? >> you think it would be, on paper it looks like it shoulds be. but in this polarized atmosphere nobodyut nobody wants to give an inch. he could maybe make a deal with some democrats located on these budgetary matters in the hurricane relief funding and the debt limit, which is a short term deal, which is being looked at which was just reached today, looked at kind of like an outright win for nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, the democratic leaders in the two houses. that used to be the kind of

thing that went on all the time but in recent years it's been less likely the case. i think it's anybody's guess. i still think that even if they can't make a deal that he will yield on this, that he will not go forward. >> tucker: a lot of hysteria has been wasted. i think you're right. >> this is typical of the pattern with the trump coverage. it is the job of journalists to show the american people want this president really is like and all about. straightforward reporting willca do the job. journalists seem not content with that. there are comments at "the washington post" and elsewhere that write essentially the same column over and over again reminding us about trumps personal characteristics, even some more going along with him have long recognized. ou i think the job is basically done and they can't let it alone. >> tucker: think it would he was like when he voted for him.

i haven't not read that paper here and i'm never reading it again. the latest work forng "the washington post," thank you. get a job, don't use drugs, those are values that used to define america. they are still values to follow, if you want to succeed, according too many studies. why is an ivy league professor being corrected for sticking it loud? plus, an update, an important one on black lives matter and its response to hurricane harvey in houston. an amazing story, stay tuned for that.o dates. you look amazing.

and you look amazing...ly comfortable. when your v-neck looks more like a u-neck... that's when you know it's half-washed. add downy to keep your collars from stretching. unlike detergent alone, downy conditions to smooth... ...and strengthen fibers. so, don't half-wash it. downy and it's done. copdso to breathe better,athe. i go with anoro. ♪go your own way copd tries to say, "go this way." i say, "i'll go my own way" with anoro. ♪go your own way once-daily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators, that work together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. anoro is not for asthma . it contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. the risk is unknown in copd. anoro won't replace rescue inhalers

for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma, prostate, bladder, or urinary problems. these may worsen with anoro. call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain while taking anoro. ask your doctor about anoro. ♪go your own way get your first prescription free at anoro.com.

i enjoy the fresher things in life.o. fresh towels. fresh soaps. and of course, tripadvisor's freshest, lowest... ...prices. so if you're anything like me... ...you'll want to check tripadvisor. we now instantly compare prices... ...from over 200 booking sites... ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want. go on, try something fresh. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices.

>> tucker: amy wax of the university of pennsylvania and larry alexander of the university of california in san diego at la jolla. both law professors, they just released an essay in which they say america is "paying the price for the breakdown of the country's bourgeois culture." all cultures are not equal, they wrote. bourgeois values which promote hard work, patriotism and responsible child-rearing are conducive for the success in

modern environment. what isn't, in their words, a single-parent antisocial habits prevalent among working-class whites, the anti-acting white rap culture of intercity black scum of the anti-simulation ideas gaining ground among hispanics. immigrants, those dot work, the authors say. now they are being threatened for saying that. larry alexander joins us tonight. professor, thanks for coming on. >> thank you for having me, tucker. let me make one correction in the intro. i don't teach at the university of california in san diego, i teach at the university of san diego. >> tucker: oh, usd! >> in the law school. we have a law school, they don't. >> tucker: good for you. okay, professor at the university of san diego. did i mischaracterize the thrust of your paper? >> no. our point was essentially as you represented it.

my fear when we wrote this was that people were just going to shrug and say that is so obvious, you really didn't need to say it, it's just banal, as you noted, that hasn't been the reaction from all corners. >> tucker: what has the reaction been? >> interestingly, the reaction ofac the university of pennsylvania, where professor wax teaches, has beenn extraordinary. she was condemned by some of her colleagues, not because they took issue with any particular thing that we said in the op-ed, she was just condemned essentially forcing what we said. there were no allegations that anything we said was incorrect. >> tucker: in other words, truth in the academy is no longer a defense, is that the

point? >> that's true. because what's more important is to signal that you are on thei side of the good guys, even if that means denying something that is true. it's a matter of, are you in the in group or the outgroup. >> tucker: if you have academics knowingly denying things they know are true, isn't that the definition of corruption? >> yes, unfortunately it is. almost every person who took umbrage at what we said in the academy actually practices the very virtues we were extolling t t in the piece. d they teach their kids this. they don't teach their kids the opposite of what we've prescribed. >> tucker: that's exactly right. i live in a neighborhood full of liberals who don't get divorced and go to bed at 10:00 p.m., whose kids are obedient. i know exactly what you o mean.

why do you think this was so offensive? you are describing the lives they lead, why would they be outraged? >> there may be three hypotheses for why some people don't do well in the country. one is they just lack any native talent and ability, another is their behavior is not conducivek to doing well, and the third isv that there are structural impediments to their doing well. it's just orthodoxy now in some corners in the academy and outside the academy, for that matter, that it's the latter that has to be true, it's not the first two. what we are saying is no, that's not the case. >> tucker: and orthodoxy iss always the enemy of truth. we are out of time, i appreciate your bravery, thanks for doing that and thanks for coming on.al >> you're welcome.

>> tucker: thank you. coalition of conservative groups demanding the press stop pretending the southern poverty law center is an authoritative, or objective, source for who is a hate group and who is not. we will talk to the head of one of those groups next. from frequent heartburn. all day, and all night. now packed into a pill so small, we call it mini. new clearminis from nexium 24hr. see heartburn differently. steak and lobster is back at outback. you asked for it, you got it. starting at $15.99 for a limited time, we're pairing our signature steaks with a mouthwatering, steamed lobster tail. starting at only $15.99. it's time to get back to outback.

♪ >> tucker: you may have seen this on social media, they marched for michael brown in ferguson, missouri, they rioted for freddie gray in baltimore, maryland, they promoted the murder of police officers in minnesota. black lives matter is launchingd its biggest demonstration yet. thousands of activists on the march towards houston where they are planning to fight heavy volunteer assistance to the thousands of black livess devastated by hurricane harvey.

footage right here of the march in progress.ar there is, pretty inspiring. we will keep following this breaking story as it continues. as we told you before on the show and documented pretty conclusively, the southern poverty law center is a progressive active activist group like hundreds of others but for some reason the media have anointed them the nationaln arbiter of what is or what is not a hate group, which is a shame since they are totally fake and dishonest. now 47 conservative leaders and organizations have released a letter calling on the media to stop citing the southern poverty law center and its fake dataga calling it discredited and defamatory. tony perkins of the president of the family resource council, once the victim of a terrorist attack inspired by the rhetoric. he joins us tonight.ro thanks for joining us tonight. if i'm not misunderstanding this, you are attempting to convince media to stop taking this fake group seriously, correct? >> in part. notice that

we're putting the media on notice that if you're going to take them on, liberal activist organization that acts as a pitbull for the left. no offense to pitbulls out there, they are endangering the lives of people by putting up this information from the southern law center which has no basis in fact. >> tucker: to call someone a hate group is to lump them in with nazis and crazy people and violent people, truly scary people. >> that's what they did for the first two decades of their hate list. two years into the obama administration when it was open season on christian organizations that were opposing obama administration, that's when they started adding christian groups to their listat and they started popping up in 2010 when president obamama unleashed his hostility towards religion and the secretary of state hillary clinton was taking the same agenda overseas. >> tucker: you would think that any normal reporter, the matter how liberal, looking through the list of hate groups, so-called hate groups, some of

them are clearly hateful and crazy and then they get to the family research council and say agenda but they are not a hate group. why does nobody at, say cnn or "the washington post," think this is overreached. it's not a hate group, it's a christian group. >> it requires thinking. there's a bigger agenda behind this. the former spokesman for the southern poverty law center,er mark, he made very clear, he said we don't have any objective criteria here. this is not based on criminality or violence. "we are trying to wreck the groups, we are trying to destroy the groups." this is, again the left's pitbull going after those whost oppose the agenda. the media needs to be put on record, knowing that that's what's behind the splc.. >> tucker: it's just so dishonest. it's like treating media matters like a legitimate media analysis group, which the press also did

until they were called on it repeatedly. have you had any response from media organizations to your letter?ve >> not really. the conservative groups, conservative media that understands what the splc is up to, yes, they are publishing it. others not so much.at here's the thing, tucker. they now know they have no excuse when there's another attack like we saw against republicans, the congressman or the attack on the frc five years ago, the media has become complicit in this violence was inspired by the southern law center. 'sou be wanted so dishonest. hate that group. i hate that garbage. tony, thank you so much. if you want to have a good time go watch "the goonies," but a start from that movie, martha plimpton says abortion in seattle can be a great time too. she actually said that. we will show you the very latest from martha plimpton, it will blow your mind.

♪ take the zantac it challenge! pill works fast? zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. when heartburn strikes, take zantac for faster relief than nexium or your money back. take the zantac it challenge. but can also loweresterol, your body's natural coq10. qunol helps restore this heart-healthy nutrient with 3x better absorption. qunol has the #1 cardiologist recommended

form of coq10 qunol, the better coq10.

which saves money. insurance a smarter way. they offer paperless billing and automatic payments. which saves paper. which saves money. they offer home and auto coverage, so you can bundle your policies. which saves hassle. which saves money. and they offer a single deductible. which means you only pay once when something like this happens. which saves money. esurance was born online and built to save. and when they save, you save. that's home and auto insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. tempur-pedic helps there ayou get the most day... out of every one of them. only proprietary tempur material precisely conforms to your body. you get up to twice as much pressure relieving power, so you won't toss and turn. and tempur-pedic is the best at minimizing motion transfer from your partner. you'll sleep deeply... and wake up, feeling powerful. now through september 17th, save up to $500

on select adjustable sets. find your exclusive retailer at tempurpedic.com >> tucker: "the goonies" is a light family movie made in the simpler times before politics affected us in every american light. one actress in the movie was martha plimpton. she is now grown up. she was in a pro-abortion rally in seattle. yes, they do exist. at the rally, plimpton said this. >> i had my first abortion at the seattle planned parenthood. yay! notice i said "first." i said "first" and i don't want seattle, i don't want you guys to feel insecure. it was my best one. [laughter] >> tucker: a lot of things you could say about that. it's gross and disturbing but above all, it's --

healthy cultures don't create people like that. somethingng wrong. that's it for us tonight. tune in every night at 8:00 to the show that's the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity, smugness, and groupthink. "the five"'s next from new york. we will see you tomorrow. good night. >> jesse: hello, everybody. i am jesse watters. along with kennedy, juan williams, greg gutfeld and dana perino. it is 9:00 in new york city and this is "the five." this is a fox news weather alert. hurricane irma, the strongest hurricane ever recorded in the atlantic, currently wreaking havoc in the caribbean, with the storm forecasted to hit the united states mainland in the coming days. we are monitoring the storm and will have a full update later in the hour. now for our top story. yesterday, we told you about president trump's announcement that he's ending president obco