>> jon: "outnumbered" starts right now. >> harris: coming in with a fox news alert, republicans latest attempt to get rid of obamacare appears to be all but dead, on life support you might say, after another key defection in the senate and the white house reportedly ready to blame the senate majority leader mitch mcconnell for not getting the job done as the president takes a shot at those he called so-called republicans. this is "outnumbered," i'm harris faulkner. here today, sandra smith, rebellion strategist and fox news contributor lisa boothe, former national security staff are under both presidents bush and obama, gillian turner and today's #oneluckyguy, put your hands in the air like you just don't care, actor and republican candidate for congress, antonios upon a junior is outnumbered.

let's do it, he vows to press on. senator lindsey graham says he's not giving up, despite appearing to be short of the vote he needs. this after susan collins of maine became the fourth republican senator to say they cannot support the current legislation. the g.o.p. could only afford to lose two more members of their own caucus and this is the daily beat is reporting that the white house is gearing up to lay blame for the likely failure on senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. the president has already clashed with him over his inability to get party members and line and pass repeal and replace after seven years of promises. meanwhile, the president is making it known his displeasure with the members of his own party. a short time ago at the white house, he said this. >> we were very does appoint a buy couple of senators, repelling and senators, i must say, we were very disappointed. we were disappointed that they would take the attitude they do. at some point, we will get

repeal and replace, but we'll see whether or not that point is now or will it be shortly thereafter. we are disappointed with certain so-called republicans. >> harris: i filigree publicans are going after this. >> antonio: we need to have the senate and congress worked together for the american people. the american people are last and you hate to see that and that's why i'm running for congress in our district because they need somebody who goes to congress and actually works for them. this is really tough to see. at stop to see these senators have their ego checked at some point. this is crazy. >> harris: that's a think this is about? >> antonio: it's about ego and power. if i don't do this, it's on about the president or the party, it's about the macon people. >> sandra: what do you make of the blame game going on?

>> antonio: they're putting the fingers at him every single day, he's touring the best he can. it's on about the president, it's about the macon people. can we do something to work together for once and help the american people? >> lisa: i think thus the frustration, they want to see something get done. particularly when you see people like senator john mccain who said he wants repeal, who wrote and for efforts in 2015 and then as a "no" vote. you see senator rand paul who is for the skinny repeal which seem to be less of what this is, now he's against the latest version with graham-cassidy. it's frustrating for americans were wondering where these members on this? it's very confusing for them and they want to know if mitch mcconnell, what is he going to do about it? will he pull people from their

chairmanship coming kick them off of key committees? what's the recourse? will come up with tax reform because the same ideological divide that has basically prevented -- >> harris: on the mike dominic they're up against this deadline so they'll have to move forward with tax reform, but it's going to make it difficult because they're hoping to get repeal done to have some more money for tax reform. now they're not going to have that. >> harris: i would imagine that the american people wouldn't mind putting their finger and saying you count. >> gillian: that's a good point, if you look at it that way, that makes sense. to piggyback off of what lisa said, seven years and, i would ask a public leadership if they were here today, why does it feel like they're trying to get this through on a wing and a prayer? >> lisa: it's depending on how you count things.

>> harris: i want to watch this from senator chuck schumer and then get your thoughts on this. >> senator collins and the rest of my repugnant colleagues, i want to say this. once repeal is off the table, we want to work with you to improve the existing system. once this bill goes down, we're ready to work with you to find a compromise to stabilize the market that lowers premiums. we're ready. >> harris: is it time to call the democrats bluff? >> gillian: may be, except look all favorable americans you chuck and nancy i think people love that. what people want to see today is different size of the aisle working together and producing something. >> harris: does the president reach across the aisle and get this done on his own question marks >> antonio: he'll have

to at some point. like i say, if you're stranded, and you had a piece of bread, would you wait for the whole loaf or eat that piece? we have to work with what we have. we need to start somewhere at some point. obamacare is a failure, it's filled from day one and it will continue. and california, it's worse. it's a sternly deadly. >> sandra: tax reform. you would think this would be a shoo-in for this in ministries end. everybody is on board to do something there. why not move forward with that and get a w on the board? this administration needs a win, why not move on? >> antonio: at some point we have to move on to get some sort of deal on the table and we hope to get it done in the next few weeks. >> harris: when you look at how campaigns are run and now we're into a presidency, what happened to that honeymoon period? when you get stuff done, make

mistakes, are we still in that or are we edging our way out of that for this president and terms of getting that checked box for health care, that first win and sandra's putting it? >> lisa: we are out of that. there are a lot of things congress is looking to get done, whether it's tax reform, daca, or having to vote on the debt ceiling. congress is going to be dealing with a lot of issues that deeply divide congress, i wish i was optimistic on getting something done on a bipartisan effort with obamacare, i just on thing it's going to happen because it's been such a key -- >> harris: you don't believe chuck schumer? >> lisa: no, where's the effort? what have you done? it's like, i can say whatever i want, and if you are not putting forth the effort, then it's lip service and that's exec with that is. i think obamacare is such a key issue.

>> gillian: i was sure lisa was going to save this president never had a honeymoon period, what you talking about? [laughter] >> harris: but she didn't! >> gillian: it's definitely over. >> harris: the deadlines that are looming now, republicans voted, they didn't, did they? nancy pelosi and chuck schumer voted with the president to kick it down the debt ceiling -- kick the can down the road again. >> lisa: that's easy because you're talking about funding for harvey victims of the hurricane. apparently -- >> harris: the president fell had to reach across the aisle to get it done. >> lisa: as i mentioned, there's a lot of hard deadlines that they're going up against so they felt like he gave the democratic party some leverage. regardless of that, that's an easier thing to come to an agreement upon rather than some thing like tax reform.

>> sandra: you ring up leverage and that's such an important word as we move into almost october now. did republicans lose that leverage, if all of a sudden we are talking about it not getting done by the end of the year and move into an election year? don't they lose a lot of leverage when it comes to that? >> antonio: both parties are losing a lot right now, but i hope they won't. that's why am running for congress because i'm sick of this is much as every body else. we sit back and watch these people talk and fight and argue every single day for years and nothing gets done. we have a chance to get something done with obamacare. i would work with anyone to get it done. i would have to. i went to the market people, the veterans, the community that i live in. it's really important. we have a chance to do it and we know who did it and who blew it. next time around, hopefully we'll get it done. >> gillian: that's the only responsible answer in this day

and age. >> harris: president trump showdown with the nfl is continuing after the dallas cowboy players in the team's owner dropped to their knees before last night's game and before the national anthem, i should say. now veterans grooves are slamming the protests altogether, is a time for the nfl leaders to step in? some of them are, he's on his knee there. hillary clinton now calling for email scandals overblown and accusing the trump white house of hypocrisy over reports of some officials using private accounts to talk about governmental matters. is it fair for her to be making these comparisons? will talk about it.

>> sandra: president trump not backing down in his battle with the nfl and now drawing attention to fans pushing back against national anthem protests. the president tweeting this morning, the bullying at the nfl football game last night when the entire dallas team dropped to his knees was the loudest i've ever heard. great anger. he was referring to this moment when the cowboys and team owner jerry jones took a knee before the game. the president praised the team for standing when the actual

financial anthem began to play. tweeting, but while della strapped to its knees as a team, they also for a national anthem. big progress being made. we all of our country. meantime, seattle seahawks wide receiver defendant his team staying in the locker room on sunday, while blasting president trump. >> what i feel in my heart and what a lot of people across this nation feel is that there is a cycle of hate being spewed from the greatest position that our country has to offer from the white house. >> sandra: now some veterans group are in sync the protesting athletes including the head of the american legion who called their actions misguided and ungrateful and says there are many ways to protest, but the national anthem should be our moment to stand together as one united states of america. first, antonio, your thoughts. >> antonio: i agree 100%. i have no problem with

protesting, but that's not the place to do so. if you want to protest, go to chicago. get together your money, $20 million a year and help the cities of chicago. when was the last time a team went up there and protested? i don't think a lot of these folks, these players know what they're protesting about. they want to protest and thus the wrong place to do so. >> sandra: we're seeing a president who is not letting up on his criticism, but he did praise them a little bit for standing when the national anthem began. >> harris: that is something that should unite all of us. i took some heat when i said exactly what you said yesterday. 216 deaths, homicides just between june 21st, just one summer season and that particular urban area of chicag

chicago. if we had any other group of people dying in these numbers, anything going away in those numbers, it would be catastrophic. i don't understand. >> sandra: if you follow roger caddell, he posts his players going out into their communities and volunteering their time, meeting with young children, they're not doing nothing. >> antonio: the coach of the penguins said if you are not going out there and saluting the flag, you're not playing today. you have the freedom to be in the greatest country in the world and salute the greatest flag in the world and you kneel? it's not right. >> gillian: coyne talk about roger for a moment? was he proud of his league when he let the dallas cowboys he

wouldn't allow to commemorate 9/11 on his cleats. a gold star mother was asked about this and her quote was saying my heart kind of stopped, i lost my breath because the flag that i see is a flag that i draped my son's casket. i think that is something to think about. it's hard to -- >> harris: wherd want to protest, it's different than the inside of the venue where people want to pay a lot of money to sit there and have fun. >> sandra: people have the right to lead the stadium. >> gillian: there's an argument going around and people agree about this, whether the first amendment protects them in the workplace or not.

ending if you get fired from any job because you said something that the boss deems as inappropriate -- >> harris: if they have a right to do this. i think we are talking about morals as well. >> gillian: do you want to criticize the right or the decision? i think the protest movement, it's not having the desired or intended effect of the originators. collin cabernet from the beginning is saying he wanted to do this to spark dialogue of race relationship. the point is, we're not talking about this. >> sandra: let me bring in jim acosta, we hear from him a lot in the white house, a reporter who's been challenging of this

president, he tweeted on the culture war. >> lisa: americans get confused when players get fined for dancing in the end zone. there does seem to be this double standard. as i pointed out earlier, there seems to be a double standard with what is protected under the first amendment and what isn't. >> harris: look at tim tebow and the criticism. which way is it?

are you allowed to kneel and protest, but not in prayer? i'm confused. >> antonio: they're allowed to do whatever they want to do on a daily basis. there is no aftermath. the nfl will lose because this weekend, you watch the readings, they'll go down and they'll keep going down. >> gillian: according to him, this is okay and it's kosher. >> antonio: what's next? if we do this, what's next? we need to stop this before it gets too bad and we are allowing people to make a lot of money to stretch out on the field anytime they want. there's families watching football games, they want to relax and forget about the problems of the world. they do want to hear about protesting on the field. it's wrong. >> sandra: you have the right to sit here and make that very point. president trump going all out for his candidate in today's

senate runoff in alabama. plus hillary clinton calling out the presidents son-in-law and advisor jared kushner over how he uses his private emails for white house business. whether she's the one to be taking this line of attack and why hillary still appears to be in denial about her own email use. people would stare. psoriasis does that. it was tough getting out there on stage.

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>> harris: are you watching this? all eyes on a race in alabama that many people see is a big test of president trump's political clout right now. today's g.o.p. senate primaries runoff. pitts incumbent luther strange against former alabama chief justice roy moore. he has the backing of more figures like the presidents of former chief strategist steve bannon. president trump made a final push for senator strange just today. he tweeted this.

luther strange has been shooting up in the alabama polls since my endorsement. finish the job. thought for big luther. however today's shakes out, the president promises so much as a reality for strange last week. >> if luther doesn't win, they won't say we picked up 25 points in a very short period of time. they'll say donald trump, the president of the united states was unable to pull his candidate across the line. these are bad people. if his opponent wins, i'll be here campaigning like hell for him. >> harris: that's how the democrats rolled. we were there when bernie sanders tried to put a straight line a moji face and be part of the nomination process, but then they galvanized and got

on board together. >> antonio: i'm going to win this seat and we need it. i think senator strange has a good shot. we're about to see tonight. what i'm surprised about is how much money they raised for the campaign. fight for the emergent people, that's the most import thing for me. >> lisa: i want to applause. >> antonio: we are going to win, but we need the american people supporting it. >> lisa: there so much hype about this race and it's ridiculous. >> harris: e don't think it's important? >> lisa: i don't, i honestly don't. it really summarizes the race.

it's trump and his endorsed against him. whoever wins this runoff will go on to win the special election in december. it would be a fool's aaron for the democratic party to invest resources in alabama when they have so many tough races, and comment still try to protect coming up here in november 2018. it's not going to happen. you can go back, republicans beat the democrats by over 60% in the state. >> harris: and a bigger picture, how much are we seeing on display with the president's political? >> sandra: the reason the people are saying this is a win-win, at the end of the day, no matter who wins, you'll still see the average american public

that is still upset with what's happening in washington, d.c., with the distrust of our government and you've still got that at the end of the day. i don't know if you agree with that. is it a win-win for the president? >> gillian: i don't think it is. a lot of the trump supporters have gone out of their way to point out that this is not a referendum on the president and maybe that's true. it's certainly a test of his political clout and prowess with his ardent supporters. the trump diehards are tested in the sense that if we accept the optics which is president trump is throwing his weight behind the maverick, not behind the maverick candidate, but behind the more established candidate that supported by mitch mcconnell in the g.o.p. leadership in the senate, are

they going to go right now with the president or are they going to go with the more trump lake candidate which everybody agrees, judge moore is. while it's not necessarily a referendum, as a little bit of a predictor to some of the races in 2018. >> antonio: like my race. >> lisa: i worked for repo can primaries, i've seen this play out a billion times. every primary, the antiestablishment candidate versus the establishment. this is how it goes down. i could go back to 2012, i was working on a republican primary, sarah palin endorsed her candidate and it was putting it out there is the heart and soul of the republican party. we've seen this movie play out so the idea that this is president trump dividing the party, i don't accept it. >> harris: we look at john mccain and where he is.

he's on the side of the four g.o.p. senators right now who are blocking the path to a group of the guns are talking about for 7 years. >> antonio: senator mccain made a big mistake. at this point, we need to go back and go to my site. >> harris: a my goodness, we're moving on. >> antonio: i will fight. >> lisa: hillary clinton no slimming reports that jared kushner used a private email account for some official government matters. she's also combining about the scrutiny she got over her own email scandal. watch. >> it's the height of hypocrisy. it's something that if they were sincere about, i think you would have republican members of congress calling for an investigation. so much of it was overblown, untrue, really aimed to score

political points, which it did. i take responsibility for it. it was a dumb mistake, but it was a dumber scandal. >> lisa: kushner's lawyer trying political that over 100 emails were sent from the personal account and all have been preserved. and clinton's case, a private center was set up and it was never activated. "the new york times" reporting several other former and current trump white house officials also used private email accounts. now the house oversight committee trey gowdy and elijah cummings are demanding answers in a letter to the white house. they write, "with numerous revelations of senior executive branch employees, deliberately trying to circumvent these laws by using personal private or alias email addresses and conduct official government business, the committee has aimed to use its oversight in a

basket of resources to prevent misuse of private forms of written communication." what your take on this? i want your take and what hillary clinton said. we know she never set up an account, she deleted tens of thousands of emails. is there a similarity or difference? >> antonio: did she use the word hypocrisy? she is ms. hypocrite. she is a person who over her entire career has never given back to the working people. she still complain about the same thing. the more she talks, the worse it goes for the democratic party. what happened is the name of her book, we know what happened. she made a huge mistake and she was not honest the macon people. we know who she is. benghazi, iran and all the deals she made over her entire career and have been devastating to this country. at this point, go ahead and keep talking because you won't win much from the macon people at this point. >> lisa: i want your take, as someone who has worked for two

different ministrations, using some of these government accounts we're talking about, what your take on this? >> gillian: first of all to respond to antonio, i think the mistake in this situation, to put the focus -- i'm not saying you're doing this, but the way we are framing this discussion today is putting the onus on hillary clinton. the onus is on jared kushner and the others senior five administration officials who were accused of using nongovernment email servers. i've set on the scout 1,000 hours and debated hillary clinton's use of a private email server pretty much the entire public is united around the idea that that was wrong, that it was maybe illegal, but the question here is this is a double-edged sword for the trump administration because they don't have any claim to plausible deniability.

>> sandra: it's not illegal to have a private email. >> gillian: no, but it is illegal when you have a security clearance if you put classified information. >> sandra: kushner's lawyer says he exchange fewer than 100 emails with colleagues from his personal email account. all have been preserved in any event. different story than hillary. >> gillian: we're taking his lawyers word at face value question asked me when that's all i have to go off of! >> gillian: when hillary quentin was accused of all of these things, she was them first figure to go through this issue. can i finish my point? my point is she relied on the argument of plausible deniability. some people bought it. we've had a public debate about

this for a year. the trump administration cannot cite that, so there a little more vulnerable. >> harris: we know she deleted 30,000 pieces of documents. >> lisa: hillary clinton was also the nation's top diplomat, so she was using an emo account that was less secure, traveling to a lot of foreign nations with who knows what information. >> harris: we had a corruption of judgment going around that particular presidential candidate. >> gillian: i'm not making a comparison, you guys are. you made this story about hillary clinton. i think it's about "the new york times" report about jared kushner. >> sandra: we didn't make it about hillary clinton.

>> lisa: we have to move on. new developments in the heated battle over immigration and the state of so-called dreamers. now two g.o.p. senators offering a new bill to get conservatives on board. it will break it down next. (avo) when you have type 2 diabetes, you manage your a1c,

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family members unless they become a citizen, requires a college degree or military service and bars those who commit violent crimes. some liberals are already pushing back on the legislation including illinois senator dick durbin who said this bill falls short and excludes tens of thousands of dreamers who have lived here for decades and have clean criminal records. based solely on arbitrary date cut off. i'm sure you put some thought into this. >> antonio: yeah, you are talking to an immigrant who came here in 1985 and became a citizen in the mid-'90s and i did at the right way. my family had to work extremely hard and wait in line and do everything legally. at this point, we need to reform this. if you did something illegal 20 years ago, is it not illegal now?

if you cross the border, whatever time it was and if it's against the law, it's still against the law today. we need to look at the books, we have the greatest loss in the world here. let's follow the law. it goes back, for me personally, i love this country. for me, you have to do things legally. imagine your children. you're not here as an american, you're here because i brought you here. how would you feel is a family? >> sandra: when you look at the details of this, with this when the hearts of conservative conservatives? >> lisa: that's the tough sell on this, if conservatives would like to see something, but what underscores the difficulty that congress is going to have in addressing that is the fact that you do have conservatives will be pushing back and then you

also have democratic senator dick durbin saying this goes too far. how do you find that sweet spot for people who are happy enough to get that 60 vote threshold? i think that -- therein lies the difficulty with washington, d.c. >> harris: you are saying something i hadn't heard interjected into this conversation as much and such a great point. there's no retroactivity or moratorium for when they come to this country illegally. >> antonio: let's say we allow everyone who's been here for 25 years, at that point we build a wall and say this is the wall?

how do you do it? this before i went point out, it's good we are having the conversation right now about a proposed piece of legislation, we would now be arguing about whether or not it was part of his legal presidential prerogative to do so. meaning were focused on the issue at hand. >> harris: i don't know if democrats would agree. >> sandra: attorney general jeff sessions speaking at georgetown university today and faculty members joining students, protesting his speech. are they proving sessions point that freedom of speech is under attack on america's campuses? plus, professors at the university of north texas blast the decision to invite donald trump jr. to speak on

campus. we will discuss. >> they have the right to their own opinion, but personally i would like for him.

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conference with president trump, the nfl controversy likely to take center stage, but the very latest on the prospect for tax reform now that the repeal and replace efforts seem to be fading. also a special election in alabama that could have an interesting ramification of the future and the president as well. that's all ahead, "happening now" ." >> gillian: at georgetown university faculty is joining students and protesting a speech on campus attorney general jeff sessions. he just wrapped and addressed to the law school on the hot-button issue of free speech on college campuses. excerpts obtained by fox news reveal that the attorney general had planned to declare that freedom of speech is under attack at america's universities. this coming after a series of clashes at uc berkeley and other campuses over conservative speakers. meanwhile the university of north texas, nearly 100 faculty members have signed an open leper that condemns the school for encoding donald trump jr.

and a guest speaker series. they claim his appearance is disrespected to women, people of color, and the lgbtq community. here's what some students there have to say about this. >> it's kind of nice to have someone that's republican to come and speak. >> with some of the things that his father has said about african-americans, women, and other minorities, a lot of our student population is a part of, it doesn't seem like it's a great idea to bring him out here to speak for our series. >> gillian: this is an issue that has been rattling college campuses for well over a year now. i want to ask you, antonio, what do you think attorney general sessions means when he says free speech is under attack is really that conservative free speech is under attack? >> antonio: i think our constitution is under attack. i don't know what's going on in these colleges. they have freedom of speech to say what they want, but they don't want someone to come and speak about whatever they want to speak about.

it's wrong. the head of these colleges should do summing about it. they should put their foot down. we should allow anyone to come and speak their mind. >> gillian: harris, you reported on some of these speeches were universities have canceled speeches by conservatives because they felt like they were unable to provide the security measures that were necessary to protect the speakers and protect students. is that a valid way of looking at this? >> harris: security is always valid and it's always important. i wish there was a difference between private and public schools and that's were some of the argument has been. on a private campus, you've got people who are donors and parents paying a whole lot of money and putting a whole a lot of pressure on people, it doesn't surprise me that someone like this would happen. public campuses, that's a different story. >> antonio: absolutely. when these figures come, they're not well protected. police are not allowed to do

anything. it's summing they should do summing about. they should be well protected. >> sandra: fox news alert, we're going to break-in, former trump advisor is speaking right now speaking on russian meddling in the election. >> it seems to indicate an inside job. i don't know whether they were hacked, i don't know that it was hacked by russians and now the basis of this report, i tend to believe that it was an inside job, meaning the data was downloaded to a thumb drive and spirited out of the building. we point out that a british supplement headset for the record that he received information about the dnc on a thumb drive and past and on. >> reporter: you and the president communicate, have you told him what you plan to say

here today? >> i have not. i'm not sure he is aware of our findings today. he may have read it in "the washington post" ." there is no current schedule. i would certainly be willing to do so on a voluntary basis, i would require no immunity and would welcome the opportunity. >> reporter: have you heard from the white house? >> i have not. recently. i declined to characterize it. it was not about this issue. [indistinct question] >> there were certainly some partisan clashes and maybe some disagreements, i would say some differences of opinion, but nothing that made me uncomfortable.

i don't think that members of the committee by some of my claims. >> reporter: -- i was only afforded 5 minutes report back to they apologize to you? >> i'm not holding my breath. >> reporter: you declined to answer? >> it's the only question i declined to answer. [indistinct question] >> mr. castro seems like a very nice guy. beyond that, my opinion has largely not changed. [indistinct question]

>> i told them i would consider it. the reason i am not submitting that name is because the interviewer is a journalist and our conversation was off the record. i'm not going to burn somebody who i spoke to off the record. if he releases his name, if he allows me to release it, i would be happy to do that. >> reporter: you and michael cavuto and your statements said to members of the community that they've smeared your character. by and large, was this a serious exercise? >> i think it was an entirely political exercise. they make charges against you and a public forum for maximum coverage to benefit their u.s. senate campaign or their reelection, but then they won't allow you to respond behind closed doors and they won't allow the release of the

transcript, they put you at an unfair advantage. in the case of michael cavuto, he attended the session, answered all questions and then congresswoman spear came back and said he had perjured himsel himself. i don't believe that's true. reporter mike do you think bob mueller should be fired question mike >> yes >> reporter: why is that? >> i think there is a conflict. i have written it, i've said it, the president may be aware of i it. [indistinct question] >> i think they were trying to do their job.

there were some clashes between the republicans and democrats about the appropriateness of it. [indistinct question] >> mr. gaudi asked me directly if i had any knowledge of russian collusion, any collusion with the trump campaign, trump family, donald trump, trump associates, trump friends, trump supporters and i said no. mr. schiff said we could ask the same question of vladimir putin and trey gowdy took exception to that. [indistinct question] >> i believe i was fairly treated by the question.

obviously, i'll reserve judgment until i see the final report. they were professional, courteous, i have no complaints about anyone's conduct. >> he believes as i do that it is outrageous. i cannot imagine for what reaso reason. english tailoring has always been better than italian tailoring. [indistinct question] >> i don't, and neither does he. i think what's happening