take on others. >> thank goodness for those who stepped up. >> a town of 400 are reeling today. our prayers out to them. we have to run. >> jon: we begin with the news that we're awaiting new details on that mass shooting yesterday at the texas church. f.b.i. and police are getting ready right now to hold a news conference just a few minutes from now. it comes as this tiny community is still reeling from the most deadly mass shooting in texas history and the tragic loss of 26 neighbors and friends. good morning, welcome to "happening now." i'm jon scott. >> melissa: i'm melissa francis. it happened at 11:30 southeast of san antonio yesterday. the dead gunman has been identified as 26-year-old devin kelley.

his motive for this rampage is still unclear. >> there are so many families who have lost family members. fathers, mothers, sons and daughters. the tragedy is worsened by the fact it happened in a church, a place of worship where these people were innocently gunned down. >> jon: adam housley joins us live from sutherland springs. >> we expect a press conference to give us more details. 23 hours since the shooting that took place here that killed 26 people and injured 20 others. take this into account. one of the locals said only a handful of people were not shot inside the church here behind me. a church that has flags at half staff. one an american flag, one a texas flag, one a church flag signifying the horror that took place here. we've been told by a number of people here this church a very

tight knit. 60 people inside. a popular church in this small community. unfortunately about 23 hours ago a gunman walked in dressed in tactical gear. walked to the front of the church. turned around, opened fire spraying the church. at times according to reports now he walked up to some individuals as young as children and put a gun to their head to take their life. we do know that there were two heroes here. one opened fire, a neighbor. one joined in and they chased this man down and caught him in a nearby county and how it came to an end. >> he hit the ditch. the gentleman that was with me got out, rested his rifle on my hood, and kept it aimed at him telling him to get out, get out. there was no movement. >> no movement and now authorities say that the gunman took his own life and say those two men probably saved a lot of lives that the gunman was prepared to take more. we know the f.b.i. is here on

scene as well as several other federal agencies working with the texas department of public safety as well as wilson county here. this f.b.i. has been going door-to-door in the last few minutes. we assume talking to witnesses or looking for witnesses and for forensics. a gun battle was away from the church. a lot of crime scenes to cover. several different locations including the final spot where it ended, an intersection and the horrific scene in the church behind me. we expect more information to come out here in about 12 minutes. >> melissa: we're hearing now that fox has confirmed that, in fact, he did die of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. there had been some question about that, right? >> yeah, because we do believe he was shot and the fact if you talk to federal authorities they believe he was shot by one of those heroes through his armor. they don't know if that led to him taking his own life. a lot of things they don't know. they might be able to figure it

out depending on the autopsy. was that bullet taking his life and the guy wanted to do it himself. there are so many things that still have to come out on this. we may never know why as we've covered these shootings before. but i got to tell you, i have been to texas, have relatives here. this is a small community in the middle of the fields and pastures. you drive out here morning fog through the oak trees. this is a small, little area with a couple of gas stations and a church and that's where this horrific scene took place yesterday. people that come from, you know, come from the work areas around here to come in for this little church in a little town in texas that no one expects or wants to ever even think of something like this. you have grandchildren and grandparents that were killed inside that building. >> melissa: all right. thank you so much for that. so tragic. president trump reacting to the mass shooting while in japan

saying that mental health was the issue here. >> president trump: i think that mental health is your problem here. this was a very -- based on preliminary reports, very deranged individual, problems over a long period of time. we have a lot of mental health problems in our country as do other countries. this isn't a guns situation. we could go into it but it is a little bit soon to go into it. >> melissa: a former speech writer for president bush, the main street columnist for "wall street journal" and fox news contributor. when these situations happen and everybody goes to their talking point corners, this gun law would have prevented it, wouldn't have prevented it. more guns, fewer guns. the american public tunes out to a certain extent because they've heard the arguing before and doesn't seem to change naig *r anything. what is your take? >> this time it has been a little different.

because president trump made some reference to god and paul ryan said his thoughts and prayers with the people. it was amazing to me that many of the advocates of gun control denounce the idea of expressing your thoughts and prayers. maybe it's the frustration that you mentioned. people are tired of seeing this happen. but there has been a really ugly kind of response in the aftermath of this. >> melissa: yeah. and what does that say? what does it tell you that we've seen this ugly backlash but it seems like it is happening more frequently. it is sort of this frustration point that we're at in this country. >> look, people can kill and they can kill with a lot of things. they can kill with empty kettles as they did in boston or a truck as they did in new york. what if this guy couldn't get a gun and he waited with a truck to mow people down? one of the things we have to come to grips with. there is evil in the world. it takes hold of some people's

heart and it does result in very inhumane things being done to our fellow citizens. >> melissa: you can see on your screen that we are waiting for a press conference where we'll get more details on the investigation and what is going on in texas after this horrific shooting. as we wait for that, bill, i want to turn your attention to the rest of the trip that the president is taking right now to japan. the president sitting down with prime minister abe and making some remarks about north korea. listen to this. >> president trump: the regime continued development of its unlawful weapons programs including its illegal nuclear tests and outrageous launches of ballistic missiles directly over japanese territory are a threat to the civilized world and international peace and stability. we will not stand for that. the era of strategic patience

is over. >> melissa: you know they golfed together, they did fist bumps. he then talked very frankly about selling weapons to japan so they could better defend themselves. what comes of all that? >> the u.s./japanese alliance is the cornerstone of america's alliances in the region. japan has good reason to fear if north korea attacked them. the two problems are seoul, a civilian city that could be destroyed just by artillery. you don't need nukes to destroy seoul. can you deal with the north that doesn't make seoul vulnerable? the people in seoul are nervous and people in japan are very nervous. this is donald trump's red line. he correctly drew it. we cannot allow them to reach the american mainland with their missiles. it will be a different game.

and the north koreans have heard for 30 years all options are on the table and they know all options weren't on the table. it is a very difficult thing and i think the president has to resolve it. >> melissa: thank you for your time this morning. we appreciate it. >> jon: we're a couple minutes away now. we expect from that news conference. you can see they are gathering the reporters there in the middle of the street in front of the first baptist church in sutherland springs, texas. when the news conference begin we'll take you there live. we're joined by sean larkin a tulsa police officers and with the organized gang unit. why does a 26-year-old man walk into a church carrying a semi automatic rifle and open fire? you have long police experience. what light can you shed on this? >> you know, it's just like we've talked about in some of these other deals like las vegas, columbine, sandy hook.

why are these individuals so angry, so distraught that they want to take that out on these innocent victims? they are finding these soft targets and what we've seen in each one of these deals is these guys want to go in and do as much damage. when they are confronted by somebody or law enforcement is moving in on them they are taking their own lives. they're cowards and bringing so much pain to these small communities. why is the question. it is just terrible. >> jon: to flush that out a little bit. the heroes who confronted him as he was running out of the church apparently he saw that they were armed and at least the word that we've gotten, this could change. these early reports are not quite correct. the early reporting was that he dropped his gun and then jumped in his car and drove off like he is scared. you are exactly right. he is a coward. >> that's the term that describes the majority of these type of deals.

they're cowards. they arm themselves to go out and inflict this type of damage and when they are confronted with someone willing to bring the fight to them, law enforcement, in this case a citizen that did an amazing thing, and they do exactly that. they are straight cowards. they aren't willing to battle out with somebody who is willing to meet them head-to-head on what they are trying to do. >> jon: the indications are that he had been busted while he was in the air force, even jailed for domestic abuse on not only his wife but his child. what does that tell you about the mind set of this shooter? >> he has got a violent individual. i have read some things about other girlfriends who said he stalked them. i spoke with the local atf head here in tulsa and asked him about the ability to buy the firearms. the form 4473. there is a series of questions on there that would prohibit

somebody from getting a firearm, one of which, 11g that talks about having a dishonor able discharge. from what i've read and heard he was discharged for bad conduct. so that alone wouldn't prohibit him but i believe 11i on the form it talks about have you committed for domestic violence in any court. if he was convicted for domestic violence there in the military i understand he served a year for that sentence, i'm very curious, how was this missed when he went to purchase this firearm a year or so ago. whether it was filled out differently on the military records from what we in law enforcement typically see. if he was convicted for domestic violence he shouldn't have been able to legally purchase that firearm. >> jon: sergeant sean larkin thank you for your expertise and we continue to wait for that police update. >> melissa: you can see on your screen there we are awaiting

the update this morning. we'll bring it to you the second it starts and keep you updated on the latest information through the hour. we'll be right back. ♪ the sun'll come out tomorrow... ♪ for people with heart failure, tomorrow is not a given. but entresto is a medicine that helps make more tomorrows possible. ♪ tomorrow, tomorrow... ♪ i love ya, tomorrow in the largest heart failure study ever, entresto helped more people stay alive and out of the hospital than a leading heart failure medicine. women who are pregnant must not take entresto. it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren. if you've had angioedema while taking an ace or arb medicine, don't take entresto. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure... ...kidney problems, or high potassium in your blood. ♪ tomorrow, tomorrow i love ya, tomorrow ♪ ask your heart doctor about entresto.

and help make tomorrow possible. ♪ you're only a day away.

>> melissa: welcome back. we're awaiting a news conference there by local authorities and the f.b.i. we're expecting them to come forward and answer some of the lingering questions now about this horrific mass shooting that we saw unfold yesterday in texas. in the meantime, adam housley is our reporter who is live in sutherland springs standing by right now. the biggest question that's unresolved right now is we have no indication why, right? >> right. they are going through everything online they can. interviewing family and friends. we do know there has been some reports that he online talked a lot about atheism and posted shots of weapons. obviously all that is being gone through now. the f.b.i. is part of this investigation as well. a fantastic team that goes into that type of thing. as we await the press

conference we're getting information from the hospitals, university hospital which treated nine patients from yesterday's shooting. they've just reported that three of them -- three children and two adults remain there. their conditions range from serious to critical. one pediatric patient died. we don't know if that's in addition to the 26 that have already been known or if that is part of the 26. press conference will clarify that. it's heartbreaking to think that a child was treated there and those first responders at that level one trauma center, university hospital you know did everything they could to save the child's life. unfortunately as they report their thoughts and prayers are with the families involved here including the child that passed away. we'll get clarification of that in the press conference when it comes up shortly. we know they'll give us the updated numbers in that respect. 20 last told were injured. only a handful of people in

that church were not shot yesterday nearly 24 hours ago. >> melissa: the shooter's background. he was in the military but he had been charged with domestic violence there? >> yes. and also some more background information we got from our dot com reporters speaking with one of his close friends. in high school he was -- he was well-known. he wasn't super popular but people knew who he was. they are looking at the military service, looking at the trouble he got in with the military. and also more recently the purchase of the weapon, how he got the weapon. all those things come into play. how many weapons he had. we don't know exactly how he was armed. we've been told some of the things he had on him including the armor. it comes out as part of the investigation, melissa. the one thing they keep reminding us. if those two good samaritans hadn't chased him down.

one opening fire and hitting him, they say the death toll would have been higher. to think about that, the worse mass shooting in texas history. and children -- children, that's what -- i am reading this right now from university hospital. imagine that. i can't. i can't imagine that. i don't know how you deal with that, i don't. >> melissa: it is devastating. adam housley, stand by for us as we wait for the press conference. >> jon: so many people are there, they're trying to repair the mic stand. we'll be right back when the news conference begins.

did yon the national debt?ssman get elected by talking tough will they stay true to their words? or did they promise you one thing... only to do another? right now, congress is talking about tax cuts that will add trillions to our national debt and hurt our economy. it's time to tell congress... don't borrow more money from china. and leave more debt to our kids. keep your word. tax cuts shouldn't add to the national debt.

>> jon: we're going to pause for one moment to let our fox stations join us. >> jon: this is fox news coverage of the most tragic church shooting and mass shooting, actually, in texas history. you are looking at the streets of sutherland springs, texas, outside the first baptist church. local authorities are about to tell us what they know about the shooting yesterday that left at least 25 parishioners dead. the gunman also died after a chase. we are about to hear what authorities know and perhaps something about motive. let's listen in. >> to start off this press

briefing. almost 24 hours ago this community was struck by an unthinkable tragedy. first and foremost we want to keep our thoughts and prayers with the families who have lost loved ones, the victims who were injured and the entire community who have come together to support each other during this difficult time. our investigators worked tirelessly around the clock since the shooting. we'll continue to do so to gather all the facts and evidence in this investigation. here is what we confirm at this point. the deceased, 26 deceased, 23 in the church, two outside the church and one at the hospital. the total wounded include 20. there are six in stable condition, four have been released. there are four in serious condition and 10 that remain in critical condition. this number could rise. we ask that everyone keep them in your thoughts and prayers. the names of the victims will

be released as soon as all of the next of kin have been notified. we appreciate everyone's understanding. the suspect we can confirm is devin patrick kelley. he is 26-year-old white male. he was residing in texas. the cause and manner of the death with the shooter will be determined by a pathologist during the autopsy. investigators found evidence at the scene that indicates the subject may have died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. we can tell you as with all active shooter situations, the number one goal of law enforcement is to neutralize the shooter and in this situation we had two good samaritans that did that for law enforcement. this call went out as an active shooter call. law enforcement was responding. but we know that a local resident that lives across the street from the church heard what was going on. he armed himself with an ar

assault rifle and engaged the suspect. they engaged in gunfire at the church. we know that the suspect was shot when he dropped his assault rifle, jumped in his ford expedition and fled the scene. this good samaritan, texas hero flagged down another young man and jumped in his vehicle and they pursued the suspect. we know during that pursuit the suspect used his cell phone to notify his father that he had been shot and didn't think he was going to make it. subsequently he shot himself and so as i said the pathologist will determine the cause and manner of his death. we can confirm that the suspect did not have a license to carry. the suspect did have a non-commissioned unarmed

private security license similar to a security guard at a concert type situation. there were no disqualifiers entered into the national crime information center database that would preclude him from receiving a private security license. private security background checks including fingerprints and criminal history checks with the texas crime information center and national crime information center databases were checked and he was cleared. i can tell you there is video recording from inside the church that has been secured and we have viewed the video. the crime scene investigation will go on for days. all the bodies have been removed from the church. our victims will be autopsyed at the medical examiner's office. the suspect had an autopsy this morning.

we know you have a lot of questions and we'll answer what we can. but to start off with, i think we will go to the special agent in charge of atf to answer questions that he can answer. his assistance to this investigation, the suspect and owski in charge of the field division. first and foremost our hearts go out to citizens of this community and the victims' families. it was tragic. what i can confirm, three firearms have been recovered. one was the ruger 556 rifle that was recovered at the scene of the church. two additional handguns were recovered from the vehicle of the deceased suspect. one was a glock 9 millimeter and one was a ruger 22. all three of these firearms were purchased by the deceased suspect and there has been a

lot of information in the media and question about the discharge of this individual from the military. what i will tell you right now is that in general if an individual has a dishonor able discharge from the military they would be prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms. in this specific investigation we're early in the investigation and don't have all the documentation yet. until we can get all the documentation to determine exactly what his discharge was, exactly what his conviction in the military we won't have a determination if this individual was prohibited from purchasing a firearm. thank you. next we'll have the wilson county sheriff. >> i think i spoke to most of you this morning. things have changed since early morning when i spoke to you and we will be getting back with

you all later. most of you did get my telephone number. right now our hearts are going out to all the family members that have lost family or have family in the hospital. thank you all. >> next we'll have the f.b.i. special agent in charge. >> i'm the f.b.i. special agent in charge. first of all our condolences to this community on this horrific act. we're here with our partners, the dps and rangers we work with every day assisting them every way we can. we're providing some evidence teams and technical support with phones and video we talked about going back to our lab at quantico. we're here in support of texas dps and here as long as they need. thank you.

>> one thing everybody wants to know is why did this happen. it's a senseless crime. we can tell you that there was a domestic situation going on within this family. the suspect's mother-in-law attended this church. we know that he had made threatening texts from him and we can't go into details about that domestic situation that is continuing to be vetted and investigated but we want to get out there. it was not racially motivated. it wasn't over religious beliefs. there was a domestic situation going on with his families and in-laws. the wilson county district attorney. >> good morning. we've learned this morning just how small town america truly is. we've had a tremendous outpouring across the country

of people wanting to assist and i want to make sure that everyone knows how they can help. everyone can help. you can help by praying for these families and their loved ones first and foremost. everyone can do that. the other thing is you can help these families financially. we're working and in the process of setting up two bank accounts. the sutherland springs community association has a bank account through commerce bank that will be accepting monetary donations on behalf of the families. in addition to that, wells fargo will have an account as well set up for the victims of sutherland springs. and that will be available for anyone to help. what we do not need at this point are canned goods and non-perishable items for the families. if you want to help it's through prayer and through financial donations. so we appreciate you guys sharing that information and we are very grateful for this

country and just tremendous outpouring of support that these families are starting to receive. we want to make sure everybody knows how they can help. thank you all very much. >> also with us today we have two texas rangers who are the incident commanders for the investigation. so we will try to answer the questions that you have at this time. >> what does video show and assist in the investigation? >> of course the video will assist in the investigation and, you know, it was a horrific event and we won't talk about the video. >> can you explain what happened after the shooting happened? could you back up and give us a description. there are reports he was at a gas station behind where you were standing. >> he was seen at the valero.

it was obvious to others dressed in all black. i don't know at that time if he had the mask on or not. he was wearing a black mask that had a white skull face to it. then he drove across to the church and that's when he exited the vehicle and started shooting. >> was he wearing body army? >> he was wearing a ballistic vest on the front. >> the ongoing domestic situation you are talking about. [inaudible] >> at this moment we know he expressed anger towards his mother-in-law who attends this church. [inaudible question] >> we can't answer that.

>> one more question. [inaudible question] >> we can only speculate but -- [inaudible] >> when did he buy the guns? >> at this time we do not have a terrorism investigation open. the rangers are the lead. they have the investigation and we're supporting them. >> [inaudible question] >> what we know he bought four weapons in total. two of them were bought in colorado. two here in texas. >> when were they purchased? >> one purchased per year in

2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017. >> [inaudible question] >> without getting into too much detail the subject, it was -- there were some length of time the subject spent in time that church in the shooting event. he moved around freely inside the church but i won't get into the exact dynamics within the church. >> [inaudible question] >> the pastor has -- >> [inaudible question] >> i can only imagine what he is going through. >> how many of the victims were minors? >> we don't have all the

information. several are children. yesterday we released information that the ages ranged from 5 to 73. those were the ones being treated at the hospital. inside the church the deceased actually range from 18 months to 77 years of age. >> follow us on twitter, please and we'll tweet something. as well we will -- >> point of clarification. do you know which ones the weapons were purchased at so we're correct on that? >> thank you all for coming. we'll brief you all at 7:00 p.m. with that, we would like to close in prayer.

>> i'm pastor demoss, the church is grieving. the body of christ across this world is grieving but we're resilient, we're strong and we'll continue to worship god no matter what happens, no matter what attacks come and that's a part of our faith. our savior, jesus, died. he died a brutal death and this is what happens sometimes. but our faith is all those families are trusting in god. we want to pray for the pastor and the families briefly. father god, we just give this to you, jesus. we ask for your covering and your protection. we ask for your healing power, god. we ask for your strength, we ask for your help. you said weeping endures for a night but joy comes in the morning. so we pray this prayer over our pastors and our leaders across this nation and world. we are one church and it's in jesus' name we pray, amen. god bless you all.

>> what is your church? >> thank you for coming again. >> jon: they end with a prayer, this news conference that gave us a little bit more information about what led a 26-year-old air force veteran named devin patrick kelley to open fire inside that church building. we now learn that his mother-in-law or perhaps former mother-in-law was a member of that congregation. 26 people from that church are dead now and we learned a little bit more about the heroes who pursued and confronted him. a local man took out a semi automatic rifle similar to the kind that kelley was using inside that church, opened fire on kelley. then jumped into the truck of another man and pursued kelley. during that pursuit which went into another county kelley called his father on a cell phone said i have been shot and may not make it.

authorities believe he took a handgun and turned it on himself and died there. please stay tuned to fox news channel and this fox station for continuing coverage of this story. i'm jon scott in new york. >> jon: our coverage continues with adam housley who is live in sutherland springs. everyone has been asking, adam, about motive. it appears that bad blood within his family or his former family, his former in-laws, may have been at the root of this attack. >> yeah, jon. a number of headlines from that press conference. there had been, of course, domestic problems in his history. there was talk locally this morning there was a family connection to the church. now we know the mother-in-law or former mother-in-law was part of this congregation and sent her threatening texts according to the press conference.

other headlines. beyond me it is hard to show, behind me is the church with the command center in front of it. just beyond that church a stone's throw away is a gas station. only two in this little town. it is at that gas station where the erratic behavior was first noticed. he was dressed in that tactical gear. at some point after he left the gas station and drove a short distance to the church here he put on a mask with a skull, a white skull on the front of it. and that's what he was wearing inside that church. he spent some time in there which goes along with what we've been told. he walked around spraying the church, shooting people at point blank range. the youngest victim inside another headline, the youngest victim 18 months. the oldest 77 years. we do know that the only victim that died at the hospital was a child. and that there are still three children at university hospital and two adults in either serious or critical condition.

obviously prayers and thoughts go out to the families there as the medical staff works to try and save their lives. but jon, a number of headlines came out of that press conference. the investigation seems to be going, the four weapons used over the last four years he bought one a year, two in texas and two in colorado, buying one of those each year. jon, as you can see this has -- seems to have a domestic connection with the mother-in-law. it was a bit of a headline that came out of there. the headline from that press conference. as you can tell a lot of healing needed to be done here with ending the press conference with a prayer. >> jon: i believe he got out of the air force in 2014, meaning he would have purchased each of those weapons after he was dishonorably discharged. investigators say they're still looking into it and think he shouldn't have been able to legally purchase those weapons as a result of his dishonorable

discharge but something they're still looking into. thank you, adam. we'll continue to cover this -- the story of the morning, 26 people dead after this horrific shooting in texas, including the daughter of the pastor of that church, annabelle pomeroy, just 14 years old. more in just a moment.

i had been diagnosed with stage 4 prostate cancer. metastatic and it spread to my bones. time is very important when time is running out. i was looking for answers. a friend of mine suggested cancer treatment centers of america. i serve in the general assembly for the state of arkansas. we work together across the aisle to get things done. and that's the way it is at ctca. what fred needed was a management team. not just to have a long-term strategy for quantity of life, but also an active strategy for quality of life. the plan was to put together an aggressive regimen.

the goal there is to slow the growth of the tumor, take away tumor related symptoms and prolong life. and lower the psa. my psa is under control. ctca gave me an opportunity to accomplish my goals and my dreams. learn more at cancercenter.com cancer treatment centers of america. appointments available now. duncan just protected his family with a $500,000 life insurance policy. how much do you think it cost him? $100 a month? $75? $50? actually, duncan got his $500,000 for under $28 a month. less than $1 a day! his secret? selectquote. in just minutes a selectquote agent will comparison shop nearly a dozen highly rated life insurance companies, and give you a choice of your five best rates. duncan's wife cassie got a $750,000 policy for under $21 per month.

give your family the security it needs, at a price you can afford. since 1985, selectquote has saved over a million families millions of dollars on life insurance. >> melissa: all right, so we're bringing you the latest on this deadly shooting that took place in texas. a short time ago we learned some of the possible motive for the shooting as well as some more information on how he obtained those guns and whether or not it was legal. we are talking to a media reporter and an investigative journalist. joe, let me ask you about the

dialogue that has been going on around this. as usual the debate just immediately begun about guns and we sort of heard a lot of the same talking points we've heard before. i wonder if the american public is tired of that? >> they're numb. the 377th mass shooting this year. we're at the point now we're actually ranking mass shootings in churches. it is not like this is a biggest mass shooting in texas, now we have one for churches. this is horrible. you're right. the script is always the same. we saw last week in the attack in downtown manhattan blocks from here and we see at night in cable news and social media that the debate will become about immigration because it was a muslim that plowed down the people on the bike path. now we're already seeing for

instance from "the new york times" they have a ticker that has hours, minutes and seconds, how long before it's too soon to debate gun control? with 377 shootings. more than one a day. it has become like a formula what hap -- happens next. >> jon: judy, the indications are this is a guy who shouldn't have been able to buy weapons. dishonorably discharged from the air force for violently assaulting his wife and his child and then either lied about it on the applications or somehow, you know, somehow was able to get his hands on weapons. if somebody is intent on doing evil, they are going to do it, aren't they? >> they are. it is a lot easier to do evil with an automatic or semi automatic weapon and i will never understand why even if you're a hunter you need an uzi to hunt for your lunch. at some point we've come from sandy hook and the slaughter of

the children in that school to this little postage stamp town in texas. at what point will americans say enough of this? enough slaughter. enough useless deaths. when we can just start by denying people like this demented animal the right to buy a weapon. we can start by enforcing the gun laws we have on the books and denying people weapons who shouldn't have them. and then talk about things -- not talk about what the congress is talking about like whether or not we ought to have silenceers of weapons but getting rid of bump stocks that boost guns to automatic. at some point the american people will rise up and say we have to stop it. until that happens we'll go on having these horrific scenes. >> i agree with you on everything you said.

but after sandy hook, when two dozen children are mowed down and las vegas where 58 people are killed from a maniac that has a gun. nothing ever happens after the shootings. we have two sides so entrenched in their particular belief on this that i don't see after those shootings how this would change anything, either. it's the same script over and over again, jon. >> jon: but you do have a couple of heroes who had access to guns or a gun who helped make this thing from being worse than it actually might have been otherwise by taking on the shooter with a semi automatic weapon. i mean, as one of the police investigators were talking to earlier said these guys are cowards. >> the way the debate will carry out tonight in a lot of the opinion shows will be that argument. a guy with a gun stopped another guy with a gun and why

we can't regulate these sort of things while the other side would say neither should have had these weapons in the first place. rinse, repeat, recycle. >> what about all the instances where there is no one there to fight back? >> jon: again we're just learning more about the motivations of this suspect. it appears he had problems, had been making threats to his mother-in-law or ex mother-in-law who was a member of that church. the investigation goes on. judy miller and joe concha. thank you both. our coverage continues on "happening now" in just a moment. but not any more. i am done with that. ooh, ooh hot - just gonna stay home on the farm, eat a beautiful idaho potato, and watch tv with my dog... tv anncr: the big idaho potato truck pulled into town today and it's really a sight to see. oh man...let's go....

(distant) you comin', boy? sfx: (dog) gulp! woof.

>> melissa: democrats renewing calls for gun control after the church massacre in texas. president trump says guns are

not the issue here. richard fowler is a fox news contributor and radio talk show host and also someone from firehouse strategies. thank you for joining us. richard, we learned a lot during that press conference. that he did not have a license to carry. that he was dishonorably discharged from the military, bought four weapons after that. according to the law he shouldn't have been able to buy those weapons. how do any of those things change the debate? >> what we know from this press conference he didn't have a license so that means that we have to do a little more to strengthen the gun laws we already have on the books to make sure people like this individual doesn't slip through the cracks. that means that state, local and national officials have got to work together. that starts at the top. that means that, you know, the fire and the firearm tfa has to

start working with state and local officials to make sure we're dealing with the issues and the president earlier today said it's a mental health issue but mental health officials need to work with federal law enforcement officials the make sure the gaps are being closed here so that individuals who have mental health problems aren't getting access to weapons like this individual did in this particular case. >> melissa: alex, if we want to raise the level of the conversation above the normal fight that goes on at this point. maybe one thing we can all agree upon is that there are gaps that existing laws at all kinds of levels aren't being enforced and there isn't enough communication. how do we solve a problem like that? >> you're right. it is a really tough problem. at some point we are going to have to acknowledge it's an impossible problem to solve all together. but we can clearly do better than we are now where you have these mass shootings on almost a weekly basis. i think the most important thing right now is to establish the facts. once we establish the facts, we

can establish what went wrong and what is the policy solutions that can prevent these sorts of tragedies in the future. i think what is wrong for the debate to become immediately politicized before we know the basic facts. people are out there demanding certain policy changes when we don't know if the policy changes would have led to a different outcome. whatever policies we push forward to prevent these sorts of things actually prevent these sorts of things. >> melissa: richard, when you instantly have a conversation about the policy that would have fixed this particular situation, it wouldn't have fixed the one before that or might not have fixed the one before that. maybe it's about communities taking it into their hands to try and close those gaps that you originally brought up between the information. there was a lot of information about this person out there. if we're looking for ways to solve more than one situation, maybe it's a community level solution. >> like i said i think it has to happen on all different

levels. it starts at the top. when the president came to office he repealed the regulation that allowed for people with mental illness to not be able to get weapons. that was one step of the obama administration put in place to stop individuals like from this guy from getting weapons. we don't know if it would have stopped him or not. we have to do everything in our power to make sure that individuals like this guy doesn't get access to weapons. let me be very clear. that doesn't mean that people who should have access to the second amendment, people who should have guns should lose their access to guns. what it says individuals who shouldn't have weapons like this particular individual should. that's the balance we have to strike in any regulation we pass. >> jon: we're learning more about the texas church massacre as investigators search the home of the gunman. ahead how president trump is reacting.

>> a dreary monday here in the northeast and with the news. thank you for spending part of her day with us. >> "outnumbered" starts right now. >> harris: fox news alert, brand-new information on the deadliest shooting in texas history. local authorities wrapping up a news conference a short time ago. at least 26 people are dead, 30 others hurt after a gunman opened fire on a sunday church service near san antonio. the victims ranging in age from just 18 months to 77 years old. ten people remained in critical condition. no investigators are searching for why this man did it. this is "outnumbered" great i am harris faulkner great here today, sandra smith. the editor of townhall.com, katie pavlich. host of kennedy on fox business, kennedy. and today's #oneluckyguy, the opinion editor for "the washington times" and fox news contributor himself, charlie hurt. on the couch, outnumbered. hello and welcome. >> charlie: thank you for having me on this very sad day.