what is wrong and don't test the united states of america." that is all the time we have left. we will'l always be fair and balanced. laura ingraham picks it up from here. tomorrow. it up laura, what you got? ing all ove world. we have you covered from every angle. you just saw president trump wrapping that you major speech in south could re-a we will have analysis soon. he's heading to china. this could be the most important part of the asian trip. we will have reaction, a lot on the line there. and in the virginia governor's race, why the republican, ed gillespie, couldn't get it done. he was on last night with us, could not get it done. the left keeps keeps disparaging the people of faith. power of prayer is a threat to them. first, the latest on sunday's mass shooting in sutherland springs, texas. the more we look about devin

patrick kelly, the more shocking that he was ever able to purchase a gun. not only did this freak assault his wife and fracture of skull of his stepson, he also escaped from a mental hospital in that same time frame. now, despite this, the air force never entered him into an fbi database. and that cleared the way for him to purchase weapons he used during the shooting spree. absolutely incredible. now, back in sutherland springs, we're hearing about the many acts of heroism at the first baptist church from those who survived and those who, of course, succumbed. by now you've heard about steven williford, the plumber who stopped the shooting by engaging with the killer -- with the killer with a gun. we learned about joanna ward, the mother died in a heroic attempt to shield her children from the killer. joining us now, from sutherland

springs, is a dear friend of this heroic woman, and she's a family spokesperson at a very difficult time. also, texas' lt. tet. governor, patrick, who spoke at length with the hero, mr. williford. both of you, good to see you both under such difficult circumstances. vonda, i'll start with you. i had a chance to talk with you, briefly, you happened to be listening to my radio show this morning and you called in because you had just spent time with joanne ward's daughter. 9 years old. >> right. >> who had been in that church. tell us what she told you. >> first thing she told me was that the reason that she didn't get shot like everybody else was because her mama threw her on the ground and told her to hide.

and she did, and she said i didn't get shot because i was hiding. she proceeded -- >> minor injuries, correct? and yet she -- >> she's fine. >> two of her siblings -- >> none. >> they died, correct? >> she wasn't injured. she could have been. she says that a bullet went right by her face and knocked off her glasses. and she was not even scathed. so, as soon as joanne threw her on the ground, she stayed hiding. i'm sorry, what was your next question? >> two of her siblings died in this horrific attack. >> two of her siblings died, yes. joanne, as soon as she threw her on the ground she scooped up her other three, that were sitting next to her in the pew, ryland who was 5, brooke who was 5, and

emily who was and immediately covered them with her body. that's exactly how rianna described it, she was on top of them. they just, i guess, it all happened so fast, i assume. >> this is a mother's ultimate sacrifice. dan, as lt. governor of texas, you have presided over natural disaster in the last few months, and now spending time tonight with steven williford the hero in all of this. mothers, joanne ward who is deceas deceased, was skilled. steven survived this but he engaged the killer. tell us what he told you tonight. >> i had an extraordinary hour with him and a pastor earlier this evening. and i asked steven's permission of what to say on his behalf. he said tell laura and tell the

country, tell the world i'm not a hero. i'm a victim. he said i lost my friends. i lost people in my community. he doesn't want to be treated like a hero, laura. he just reacted. he said god gave him great presence of mind and calmness as he walked out that door facing the shooter. he said he would like to go to the hospital, as i did later tonight, i went to the hospital to visit some of those who are wounded and lost others. and he said i'd like to go to the hospital with you. but i just can't right now. he's a christian, most of all, he said. dan tell everyone i'm a christian and i'm part of this faith community that is going to stand strong. he's a humble man. he's a hero to all of us. but to himself, he's another victim. and that's how he wants to be

seen. >> dan, is there any doubt in your mind after spending time with him tonight, as distraught as he is, i want to hear from both of on you this, that were he not the type of man he is, i know he's humble, doesn't want credit. but president trump was right, we would have had a lot more carnage. this man was hell-bent on shooting up whatever he could find, looked like. >> i said to him, laura, i said steven i know you don't want to be a hero. but understand that your reaction probably saved many other lives. there would have been a police shootout, for example, that police officers could have been wounded or killed. they drove by another church in the chase, the gunman could have stopped at this church. obviously this was more than just domestic violence, for me this was just another attack on people of faith in the world.

whether you're jews, muslims, christians, people of faith are under attack. no question in my mind that steven saved the lives of countless others. and is still wrestling with this. he's not getting a lot of sleep. he's still working through this. but there will be a time that he will tell his story in detail. but now he just wants to be known as a christian and a victim. >> wow. and to think, rhonda, about how much our society e focuses on celebrity and what you have and what you're wearing, where you went to school, all of that. in a time like this you see a mother's love for her children, i have three children and i, i got down on my knees tonight and i prayed with my children for the people of texas again. i mean, my kids don't really understand it, they're little. but i was crying to myself,

thinking of her, the ultimate sacrifice. are you surprised, knowing joanne as you do, that she did this instinctively for her children? >> joanne always had her children at the top of her mind, her ideas, her thoughts, everything. when we would go to lunch, even with joanne sitting there with her children we couldn't carry on a normal conversation with her because she could be interrupted by her children not because they were desire behaved, they were perfectly behaved. if they needed anything it was the drop of a hat, it was about her children. that's joanne's heart. it was always giving her children first place and her family. and for her to do this she always told me, even, and this was the thing that you hear sometimes, parents say but you never think they'll have to, she said i would die for my children. and she ended up having to do that.

and that does not surprise any of us in this community that know her. because she loved them so. and she gave it up for them. ultimately. >> laura if i can say something. >> dan, go ahead. >> i went to the 4079 tonight. this -- i went to the hospital tonight. this faith-based community is amazing. a laidly whose name hasn't been released sheeshg was shot multiple times. her granddaughter was the floor above her in critical condition. her husband was killed. this is unimaginable. i visited another lady who was just for the first time, i was maybe the first person she had talked to, and she said tell me did they all die. i wasn't ready for that. but the lady i visited previously had said to me, i lost 80% of my friends, i lost

my husband, my grand date is in critical condition. but a church family went to heaven. an entire church family went to heaven together. we will be together with them again. that's what i shared with the other lady when she said did they all die. i said no, but the church family went together to heaven to meet with the lord. laura, you and i have known each other a long time as fellow christians. i've never seen a statement of faith like we've seen a pastor said to me a few minutes ago, a lone star walking jesus christ into this world and a lone star state is showing that faith is stronger than evil and hate. that's the thing in this little town. >> joanne, you reached out to joanne ward, a few years ago, she was having a really tough time. you helped bring her to christianity. ironically, she goes and connects with this church and

ends up dying there. a lot of the atheists and cynics say, see, the faith killed her, she got close to god and look what happened to her, there is no god. how would you respond to that? >> um-hum. i don't even know what to say to ma. i just know that this woman's faith was so strong. i may not have brought her to christianity, i know her faith was wavering and her faith strengthened over the three years i've known her. she did end up in which you are. . that is where she died. the thing that i know that joanne would want people to know is that, live for christ. no matter what. she was dragging people to church. she was begging her best friend, cody, to go to sunday school with her. that was her heart. no, it -- evil is here and that is not god's plan. god's plan is not for evil. it's for good. if we turn to him he has an

ultimate good for us. and it may not be here on this earth but it'll end up that way. that's the end of the story, we know the end of the book. >> lt. governor patrick and vonda, thank you for sharing this incredibly difficult moment with us. but i think we need to confront evil and we need to call it out and we need to stand. you helped do that for us tonight. thank you. thank you both. >> thank you. >> and now a continuing angle. last night we told you how some on the left had begun to attack anyone who offers thoughts and prayers in the wake of this horrific shooting. the political and media elite are still at it. watch. >> thoughts and prayers are not going to stop the next mass shooting. . thoughts and prayers didn't stop a troubled person from buying assault grade weapons. that took the lives of 26 people in an instant. >> my colleagues are doing a moment of silence in the house

of representative chambers. i respect the right to do that and i myself have participated in many of them. but i didn't do this again. i've been to too many moments of silences. >> now, compare that to what sunday's hero, steven williford had to say about the role of faith. >> i'm no hero. i am not. i think my god and my lord protected me and gave me the skills to do what needed to be done. >> joining us is jerry fallwell junior, president of liberty university. jerry, you're a believer, you've been watching this play out over the last 72 hours. the horror, the loss, the sacrifice, the sadness. the attacks on prayer. prayer! your reaction to this. >> i just think it's shameful

and disrespectful to the families of the victims for anybody to try and politicize something like this. i think we need to love, support, pray for these people for their families, for the friends of everyone involved. and to keep them in our prayers. that's what we are supposed to do. i have 15,000 students here, i'm not a pastor or reverend but i'm president of liberty university. they've all been praying for the families of the victims. we had one student who lost his inlaws in the killing in texas. he and his family are on their way back from okinawa to attend the funeral. it's a time for us to grieve with them, not to make -- try to make political points when something like this happens. >> why are so many in the secular left, so many in hollywood, you know who they

are, so many in politics, why are they so afraid of a public expression of faith? whether it's sentiment expressed or a tweet and a pray. you can pray and also advocate for legislative changes. or pray and say gosh, how did this guy get a gun. you can do both things. or you can choose not to pray. why are they so offended and bothered by prayer, jerry. >> i can't speak for them, i don't understand that. i just know that our country is built on a judeo-christian ethic. it's something that all of us, one of the reasons this country has been successful is because of that ethic. because of the way our people have not just been a great people but a good people. and they've lived by the teachings of jesus to love our neighbor as ourselves.

that's the only way to end evil, acts like. this can you outlaw guns and evil is, the only way to stop evil is to change people's hearts. that's just so elementary, so simple. i don't understand why anybody would think that making a gun illegal would stop a criminal, who's wig to murder some one else, from buying a gun illegally. >> he had the wherewithal, jerry, to commit a terrible, horrible series of killings here whether with a pressure cooker bomb or something else. he had the military training. he would go on "you tube," watch the video, and do it. he could have done it. >> the brave neighbor who had the ar-15 who stopped him. if guns were outlawed he wouldn't have had una. gun. who knows how many other people would have been killed. the lesson from this shooting we need more good people to have

guns --? they ridicule you for. that you say that, jerry, they'll clip this tape and run it on a late night show and they're just going to go blah, blah, blah, blah. then we have people dead. >> it's common sense. at liberty, we have teachers who carry guns with a concealed carry permit. every time -- every concert, every sporting event, every church service should have a certain number of people with concealed permits with guns. all of the deacons carry guns on sunday morning here. most mass shootings like this occur in begun-free zones, that's true since 1950. this one is a little different. but it's unusual. but that's the only way to stop evil. it takes police about 11 minutes to respond. the shootings are over in five minutes. i don't know why that, to me it's common sense. i don't know why it's so controversial. it's just liberty, we've -- we're right now adding

magnetometers to our events. >> that's depressing. >> next time you come back to liberty it will be a lot harder for to you get in and out, laura. but it's what we have to do. >> no, no, no. now that is depressing. but, jerry, thank you for spending time with us for this perspective. when you return, you heard about the magnetoters, what about an armed citizenry? does it make us safer? we'll have that white hot debate up next.

killer gunned down 26 nngs innocents in sutherland springs texas on sunday. gun rights advocates say it wouldn't have been worse if a citizen hadn't confronted with their own gun. here's stephen colbert. >> 5,000 years ago, if your village had a tiger coming in every day and was eating people, you wouldn't do nothing. you move the village, build a fence, or kill the tiger. you wouldn't say well, i guess, someone is going to get eaten every day.

the price of liberty is tigers. >> laura: stephen colbert talks about fences. joining us in idaho, is mark fuaman, and director of guns down, wants to dramatically reduce the number of guns in the united states. igor we won't do the whole interview in russian. but let's talk about what happened in texas. this individual was able to buy weapons, despite the fact that he's a domestic abuser, child abuser, escaped from a mental facility. that should never have happened. it's against federal law. there was a mistake at the air force level, we don't know who, but something happened. we have a lot of people dead. what is your reaction to the fact that this was not properly entered into the database. >> well, that's a problem. that needs to be addressed.

we need to address the situation where we have 3 million guns floating around. even if you would have been stopped by the database you could have gone online and purchased a semiautomatic weapon, high capacity magazine that allowed him to gun down those people. those things should be banned. >> laura: mark can you go online, if you commit domestic abuse and escape from a mental facility and buy a 9 millimeter no, problem? >> no, if you're prohibited through purchase at a gun store you are prohibited by any gun siels the internet or in many, many gun shows. i mean there are states where you could purchase a weapon at a gun show. but this probably wouldn't be what oh kured in this instance -- what occurred. >> laura: steven williford chased this guy, we found out today they were m pursuit of the killer for 11 miles. i guess, in a truck.

and they race bead hind him. he did shoot him, i don't know how bad the injury was. the guy drove in a ditch, self inflicted gunshot wound. if he hadn't chased him with a gun, shot him with a gun, he may, in fact, have engaged police or chilled others. do you see that? >> we're all thankful this guy intervened. >> laura: with a gun. he didn't intervene with a powder puff. >> but you look at what happened in colorado last week where there was a shoot agent a walmart store, people pulled out their guns and created intense chaos for police. we have 300 million guns in america. >> laura: what do you want to do with that? >> if guns kept us safer we wouldn't have these mass shootings. i want to get rid of the assault weapons that this guy used. get rid of the high-capacity magazines that allow them to spray bullets. that's a good start. let's have a conversation about how we move 24 country toward

fewer guns, guns are harder to get, when you need a license and training to have a gun. that's going to keep us safer. that's what other countries have done. why they have comparatively, a lot less killings than we do. >> laura: i like the idea of training, i think any kwon with a weapon should know how to use it, should know safety. mark, you spoke about this today with me earlier on radio, that individuals who carry weapons concealed kind of cool, carry a weapon concealed f you don't know how to use that weapon you could buy yourself into a lot of problems. however, this man was an nra instructor, correct? he knew what he was doing with the ar-15. that can be accurate, if you know how to use it. and it helped save more lives. >> well, you're right, laura. he had the presence of mind and actually through his training and nra, he actually understood and assessed the situation. and then he took appropriate action. with controlled fire.

if you listen to what he said, he probably didn't even realize what he was actually describing. but he was describing not only well placed but controlled fire. what's interesting about training, there's nothing wrong with it. and anybody that carry as weapon would probably invite the training. and really enjoy the training. but here's the downside of gun control. criminals, gang members, do not purchase guns legally. and if you get rid of legally purchased guns those weapons are still in the hands that are committing the lion's share of homicides in this country. >> laura: igor? >> criminals do not follow speed limit yet we have speed limits, seatbelt laws. >> laura: but a constitutional amendment regarding speeding? >> there are reasonable regulations and restrictions on guns, almost every gun restriction has stood up to this

interpretation. the second amendment isn't absolute. we can be smart in how we solve this. we are really the smartest nation in the world. these weapons, high capacity magazines, these assault weapons are big problem. they're used in every single mass shooting. one in vegas, the one we're seeing now. i'm sure we can come to an agreement here that you shouldn't be able to have an assault weapon, stack it up with rundz and bullets and just shoot people. >> laura: no, that's a crime, that's a federal crime. but just like you can't legally purchase fenenol, we have people buying it on the black market. i know you're well intentioned, you want a good outcome. mark's point is, if you're criminally minded you will commit carnage. carnage is on your mind, you'll do it with a gun you get illegally, do a brothers deal with a pressure cooker bomb, throw acid on people's faces.

whatever you want to do to commit carnage you will get something to do it. on your point, high capacity magazines, i guess people could ban those and see how it goes. in the end we're dealing with depravity, evil, people with spousal abuse, they've been abused, there is a mental health aspect to this that is real. >> oh, i agree with you. that is certainly a piece of it. but, again, we have to make sure that those people don't have the easy access to guns. >> laura: he shouldn't have. and, mark, the fact that the air force still has not released the results of what has to be a fairly simple investigation. with the computer capacity we have, putting people on these gun registries, bureaucracy, you can cut through it to find out whose responsibility it was to enter this information into the database about this freak, mentally unstable freak, who was able to commit a horrific carnage. are there other people whose

names weren't entered on to this database? other spousal abuse convicts other people escaped from mental institutions? would they forget to enter them, too? we should know about that. . well, laura, i'll end the mystery. some young airman was given the responsibility with a stack of reports to enter and they either forgot, they dismissed it and just ignored it, forgot about it. >> laura: we need to know. >> doesn't matter why. they know. the law is absolute. and the air force is admitting it should have been done. this is one of these things that occurred, but it didn't and it wouldn't have stopped this shooting. this man had a mental defect. this man was a wife beater. a child beater. a dog abuser. this guy was going to get a weapon and he was going to take out his revenge on his inlaws,

or anybody that knew them. and that's what he was going to do. it doesn't matter if he bought a gun at the local gun store or he didn't. and as far as the idea that criminals are going to be somehow alerted, well, i guess we can't buy this guenther ee illegal. the only people that will have assault rifles, such as in south chicago, were 762 people were murdered last year, that is the weapon of choice. assault rifles. none of which were obtained legally. not one. >> how often do you hear about machine guns being used in these shootings? you don't. they're very, very heavily regulated under current law. back to 1934 law. so here we have -- >> they're regulated but they're out there. >> regulate and restrict weapons and you ensure they're not in circulation. the people with the mental conditions we're talking about, shouldn't have guns, simply

can't have access to them. it's not enough to do background checks. you have to go after the gun sales. >> laura: you think people will turn them in? government con physical cates them? how practically does this work. >> well, look, there's a bill, hr-4052 that bans high capacity magazines. dianne feinstein for years has been talking about reintroducing the assault weapon ban f that was in place this guy wouldn't have been able to get this kind of weapons. all of the shootings we hear about wouldn't have happened, with that weapon. >> laura: mark, close it out. >> well, you can say it won't happen but if you have got, as you cited, 200 million guns that means you probably got about00 or 600 million magazines. possession of a magazine really wouldn't be a crime.

>> laura: 3-d print a magazine now. that's also out there. those are provocative conversations. thank you. still ahead fresh off his speech in south korea president trump heading to beijing. will he stand up to the chinese president or back down on his promise to contain north korea. all coming up. the next era belongs to those who help ensure the next energy to power our dreams, will be american energy.

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>> president trump: you look at what china is doing in terms of making our product. they're devaluing their currently and nobody in our government is fighting them. >> laura: now his message has changed dramatically. >> president trump: i applaud china for breaking off all banking relationships with north could re-a something people would have thought unthinkable, even two months ago. i want to thank president xi. >> laura: america has serious problems with china. it's the world's most populous country and aiming to edge us ougs economically, militarily. they have an ambitious plan, many of you haven't heard of this, it's called made in china 2025. a 10-year program. and the goal is to transform china into an advanced manufacturing leader, especially in the following. information technology, row boltics, space and commercial aviation equipment, by owe

medical, rail manufacturing, everything. basically, everything. tools, 3d printing, sophomore engineering. on and on. we need to understand this. china, if they help us with north korea they're not going to stop until they achieve total hygeneny. africa and beyond, that's the goal joining us for reaction to my comments and the president's speech, from new york, gordon chang, daily beast china and east asia expert. and mike pills bury, director for chinese strategy at hud ton institute and author of "100 year marathon." the president's speech, mike, your he action. >> i thought it was very good. he's able to balance the idea of threatening north korea and holding out the word, the path,

he used the "path." and invoked the rocketman's grand father. who your grand father wanted isn't what we have. it's really hell, he said. he's shaming the grandson and offering the path out toward economic growth and better relations and giving the price. you have to give up these nuclear weapons. very good speech. >> laura: we'll get on china in a moment. gordon, confronting evil, we see this in texas, and in the united states, with the horrific shooting. the president confronted evil in his remarks tonight. your perspective. >> well, absolutely. president trump talked about freedom. free societies, free markets. the rest of the region, east asia, heard this as america's response to china's xi jinping. october 18 gave a 3:23 work report which is a speech that extold the opposite. that extolled state domination

of society, state dominated markets. it's very important for president trump to say these things. it cut to the heart of the differences between the united states and china and also explained the strength of the american system, the strength of the free world. i give him really high marks for boing doing this, that had to be said. >> laura: i want to play a sound bite for both of you from president trump last week. i interviewed him. and -- we'll play john kelly first. this is general kelly from last week in my interview. i asked about our relationship with china. let's watch. >> my hat is off to them for taking advantage of whatever they've been able to take advantage of, to have that trade relationship. this president is committed to changing that relationship. but to do it in a collegial way. >> laura: collegial way. changing our relationship with china. i did ask president trump about it, we don't have time for the whole bite. he said, look, they're really helpingous north korea, they're

doing a lot to help. it's not as simple. essentially saying to me, mike, it's not as simple as it was when i was talking about this issue in 2016 in the campaign. >> president trump is also previewed what's going to happen tonight when he flies to beijing. he said we'll see. he left it open. i think general kelley is known as a pragmatic optimism who wants to get the best out of people who work for him. he's decidedly more optimistic than the president, i think. >> laura: gordon, the president delinked north korea -- excuse me, south korea and the trade imbalance with south korea after the free trade agreement we signed with bush, delinked that from the helping south korea and working with them, against the north korean threat, dealing with trade from national security. doesn't look like he'll do that with the beijing event tomorrow.

it looks like we'll back off a little bit in some of this concern, action against china, on the trade cheating. maybe that's just pragmatic but it's a shame. we're really on the cusp of holding china accountable. we might not be able to do that because of the north korean threat? >> i suspect that president trump will go after china not only on trade but also on north korea and the south china sea, taiwan, cyber attacks. the reason as you pointed out, china is challenging the united states across the board. this is not just asia. china is challenging the american democracy. american free societies. they do it almost every day in their propaganda, in people's daily, global times, china daily. president trump really doesn't have a choice. he's got to confront this challenge in all of its facets. i believe despite what we have heard so far, the president is going to be forced to do this. if for no other reason there's 2018 elections, you have steve

ban on who said he's going to make china the issue in every race. that's a very important thing. the challenge on china, north could row a is a danger but only a danger because of china. china has been weaponizing north korea. president trump talked about that in seoul. that's very important, that china is held accountable for sending weapons and arms and technology to the north koreans. >> laura: i hope you are right, gordon. i am concerned. mike, friend of mine today sent me an e-mail about goldman sacks. china's vern so wealth plan funds up to 5 billion in additional u.s. investments. his message was goldman is helping china take over our industrial sector a lot of money to be made with china buying up american companies, investing huge in the united states. >> there's a book about it by hank paulson when he accounts how he succeeded as

representative of goldman sachs, showed the chinese how to convert state owned enterprises and pollute them in hong kong. they made billions off. this they're proud of it. >> laura: smithfield, china bought, they wanted to buy semiconductor industry in seatt seattle, they were shut down by the committee on foreign investment. they got a lot of extra cash to float. and i don't think we're allowed to go and just buy huge industries in china, are we? are we able to do that in beijing? nch no, we're not permitted to do that. xi jinping has staken state enterprises and made them unvulnerable, giving them state subsidies, you mentioned the made in china 2025. take 10 critical industries and make sure that china dominates them by 2025. he's made a lot of these big

state enterprises into formal state monopolies. reversing the process of reform. no, we can't buy that. in washington right now, you have a consensus that china cannot be allowed to buy the american technology sector. >> gore done and i disagree a little. president trump has a strategy, wilbur ross echoed it. personal relations with president xi, the leader, the king as he called him, can go a long way toward changing the predatory policies. >> laura: i don't buy that. i think president xi is so far ahead of the personal. i don't care how much the red carpet is rolled out, they have a goal to dominate most industries in the world and it might seem like a pie in the sky thinking. i think they're well on their way to doing this. space weaponry. but, mike, are you a powder puff. what is it? what is this relationship? >> he's trying something here, very stroo teejic. give him a chance on their soil.

>> laura: i got it, we're out of time. >> he says we'll see. >> laura: we'll see. gordon and mike great to see you. establishment republicans socked in virginia. we'll tell you why. it's easy to think that all money managers are pretty much the same. but while some push high commission investment products, fisher investments avoids them. some advisers have hidden and layered fees. fisher investments never does. and while some advisers are happy to earn commissions from you whether you do well or not, fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management.

northham wins defeating ed gillespie. president trump sent his reactions, tweeting ed gillespie worked hard but did not embrace me or what i stapd for. the mub answer won 4 out of 4 house seats and with the economy doing record numbers we will continue to win even bigger than before. chief political correspondent. gillespie never jumped onboard the trump train, he's an old bush hand. he is who he is, not a populist conservative. >> virginia is a blue state now. northham won by 8 points, hillary clinton won by 5 points. no republican has won statewide since 2009. it appears that those big suburban counties around washington d.c., right over there, went even more for northam than they did for hillary.

>> laura: that tells you a populist conservative like trump who has a strong personality and strong message did do better. he didn't spend a lot of time campaigning in virginia, donald trump. ed gillespie tried to do a dance, i'm not going to campaign with trump, he'll tweet for me and do a last-minute robocall. that came off as desperate. what if gillespie campaigned on preserving history, respectfully, virginia first, law and order. simple. >> the problem was, gillespie never felt comfortable with trump. >> laura: right. >> he's asked about trump. you run for an office now, you will be asked about trump. >> laura: he looks uncomfortable period. and the voters are smart, they don't like. that >> he wasn't himself, whatever that was. now, we've known ed gillespie, he is as establishment republican as can you get. he was the head of the rnc, held

have the bush white house and big lobbyist for a long time. establishment guy. maybe he should have run as who he is. >> laura: i think in the end the democrats are going to say ah-hah. first they were reporting that gillespie keeps trump at arm's length. that was the narrative. then it was gillespie is as right to become trump. the story line they wanted was trump has no momentum in virginia. has no momentum, he's going down the tubes. remember, you pointed out in 2009, bar ram obama won triumphantly in 2008. 2009 was chris christie in new jersey, and bob mcdonald. >> the bright new faces. >> laura: and now -- >> not so bright, maybe. >> laura: i like chris christie and bob mcdonald as well. but as a barometer for the future, what does it really mean? >> obama went on in 2009 to take

a big beating in the 2010 mid terms. no doubt about that. and most presidents do take a beating in their first mid terms. what does this say about 2018 and donald trump some i don't know. probably nothing very good. democrats are going to be very, very excited about this. >> laura: okay. they need something to be excited about. >> we had a bunch of special elections, remember those? >> laura: look at donna brazil. hillary e-mails. >> they're coming off a string of losses in special elections. now they have a win they can point to. >> laura: again, we'll see, they can get tax reform done, they can get the economy moving in a faster pace. that will have a huge effect on the mid-term elections. they have to get it done. they have to put points on the board. if you're a democrat you have to be happy. >> talk to the republican strategist, they say if we do it we'll win f we don't we're led. >> laura: byron, great to see you. do not go away, we're coming right back.

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>> laura: before we shove off this evening, more on why republican ed gillespie lost his upset bid to become the next governor of virginia. last night, one did i say? my book "billionaire at the barricade" i made this point really consistently that there is no middle ground with conservative populism. that's the wave of the future. there is no constituency for open borders, open markets, and endless military intervention. there is no constituency. maybe gillespie would have won if trump had campaigned of him but being half in, half out wasn't going to work.

if you dip your toe in just a little bit, you're going to end up like ed gillespie. political roadkill. up next, shannon bream. she has a big guest, vice president mike pence. >> shannon: thank you. here's what's on "fox news @ night" tonight. right now, we are following the outcomes in key state elections. >> it's not a referendum on any national politics. >> shannon: are they or aren't they a litmus test on the trump revolution which officially began nearly a year ago today. before he visits the first baptist church in sutherland springs, texas, the vice president shares a message of unwavering faith. what do you make on the left who mock this idea of praying question wants to go i am a believer and i believe in prayer. the on vice president 's as the president departs for