they can keep their club. that is our story for tonight. stay tuned, tucker carlson with donna brazile as his guest coming up. we will see you back here on "the story" tomorrow night at 7:00 p.m. have a good night, everybody. ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." a year ago this evening she was one of the most powerful democrats in america. now she is one of the most despised within her own party. donna brazile has been around an awfully long time. she ran al gore's presidential campaign in 2000, she was the acting chair of the dnc in july '16 through november, but that her book came out. the title is "tax: the inside story of the break-ins and breakdowns that put donald trump at the white house." among other things, she says the dnc colluded with a hillary campaign to effectively rake the primaries up last year.

cnn president jeff zucker have been enraged by that charge and have sought to undermine her credibility as a result. what does she have to say in response? donna brazile joins us tonight. thanks for coming on. >> hey, what a great honor to be with you tonight after the democrats did so well across the country yesterday. i'm excited to be here, excited about what happened in virginia and new jersey, and excited to talk to you about my new book. let me say this. >> tucker: [laughs] let me ask a question. congratulation on on your party success last night. >> thank you. >> tucker: i've been watching because i've known you a long time and i've watched to work for more than 20 years, and i'm watching people who know you well, journalists and democratic party officials, go after you, and the one thing i noticed is that the attacks all sound the same. my guess, and i want to ask you as a professional political person, it seems obvious that there was coordination, that someone is doing oppo on you in

response to your book. who you think that is? >> i don't really have time to figure out who is spending -- i'm sure some much needed money that needs to go to democratic candidates next year, to figure out what i said in this book is factually correct. i want to tell you, i wanted to write this book to tell my story. i wanted the american people to see what happened. i became chair of the party for the second time in my life because our party was under attack, we were hacked. that's why i was called upon to step up and become chair again. when you read the book, you've mentioned it, we've known each other a long time. we were colleagues once at cnn. the book tells some hard truths, because as you well know, i'm not just any democrat, democratic operative, i'm an activist. i come from the grassroots. i come from the party, i care about the future of our country and democracy. as chair of the party, we lost

an election last year many people thought we were going to win, and so i did a forensic examination of what we did wrong and what we could do better so that we could win elections in the future. >> tucker: that seems like a wise and obvious thing to do. it was an unexpected loss, why not figure out why it happened. you were not seeing very many people in your party go along with that course, and instead of sitting to your analysis of why hillary clinton's campaign failed, they are attacking you and impugning your motives. the hillary campaign, almost every member of it, released a statement accusing you of buying russian-fueled propaganda. jeff zucker, your former boss over at cnn was enraged when he read the book excerpt that ran last thursday, and you are seeing your former colleagues say you were just doing this for the money. why are the they not more willing to listen to the prescription that comes out of this book? >> many of those individuals who signed that letter, i've been in the trenches with them for more

than 30 years of my adult life, and that i had to go back in the trenches with them next year i would go back because i believe in justice and fairness and equality. i didn't take a salary from the dnc. i gave up everything, i took a leave of absence from cnn and abc. the only thing i really went back to was teaching at georgetown, because i love my students and i wanted to be there for them with a historic collection on the horizon. i wrote this book because i wanted democratic activists, rank-and-file democrats, those of the people i listen to, those of the people that i respond to. i want them to know how hard we worked to elect hillary clinton and other democrats up and on the ticket. we came up short, as you well know, less than 80,000 votes short in three states, then tonight we would be having a different conversation. we would be talking about hillary clinton's first year in office. instead we are talking about how the democratic party can come back stronger so that we can become more competitive in 2018

and beyond, and what i saw last night, i see a party that is capable of coming back out of the wilderness. i see a party with fresh faces, new blood, new energy, in large part because of tom perez and keith ellison, karen, and so many other people on the dnc, they are working hard to change things for the country. >> tucker: you haven't mentioned anybody who helped run the hillary campaign. robbie, for example. would you hire him to run the next democrat's campaign? >> we are both at harvard. when the democrats win the popular vote and the republicans win the electoral college, people like us get to go up to harvard and take a forensic examination of how we can improve our democracy. i went over to see robbie last week. i have great respect for robbie. but i was very complimentary of him in the book. >> tucker: i want you to see what he is saying about you on television, here's part of it. >> the idea that the dnc could rake a contest, frankly, is

laughable. the allegations she's making are simply not true. we certainly don't recognize the campaign she described, we also don't recall some of the events. she said that happened. i'm sure her publisher put her under a lot of pressure, i wish he would just put her foot down and said i'm not going to do this. >> he's describing usa hapless pond of your publisher. >> [laughs] , on the third of nine children and the one thing my parents taught us was to stand up, fight for ourselves, pray, and get up the next day. here's what i know. i was chair of the party, but more importantly i was an officer of the dnc. i've been a member of the democratic national committee since 1997. i know how things operate, on the former chair of the party, so to suggest to anyone that i don't know what i'm talking about, i'm not focusing on what robby is saying, unfolding i'mn making sure that our party will become stronger. you have to let these wounds heal. we had a competitive primary. i don't know when the

republicans will sit down and heal their wounds, but we are healing our wounds, and we are going to learn how to become a stronger, more effective party. >> tucker: here's part of what you say about robby mook in the book. "i've worked with men all my life and politics, and i can sense when they get to this part about not being able to deal with the woman. it was not a racial thing, it was a gender thing. every time you mentioned they were trying to shut you down because you are a woman, all of these guys are like no, no, no, no, no." my question is, you are saying you were the victim of sexism from the management of the hillary clinton campaign. what was their response when you said don't treat me differently because i'm a woman? >> i may have also stated in the book, i think i did in three or four chapters, that it was also generational. i come from the old school, i come from the school where you have a three by five index card. i come from the school where you actually knock on doors, you talk to people and you try to get their support, and then you try to get them out on election

day. robby comes from a school that is a lot different than the school i came from. they do algorithms, they do data modeling, and one i would come back -- go >> tucker: and they do sexism, too, apparently, from your book. you only renna whole campaign about breaking the gas ceiling and here's a guy running the campaign diminishing you. >> it was dismissive. condescending and dismissive. those are the words i characterize in the book. i said robby, i was in cuyahoga county, or i just left colorado, and i wanted the campaign to understand that. we need -- on august 19th when donald trump said what the hell do you have to lose? he made that comment in front of a black audience, and he made that comment in front of me. i was fighting for what i normally fight for in a campaign, whether i'm a campaign

activist, or a campaign chairwoman, i'm fighting for resources to get our message out, because my job was to help elect hillary clinton and democrats from the courthouse all the way up to the united states house and senate. >> tucker: you haven't seen in the book that has been much remarked upon, where hillary is really sick, you say she is overworked and she has an infection, may be pneumonia, and she is so sick that you have this moment we think maybe we need to replace her, maybe she will be able to continue, that's the point at which you said maybe the vice president would be a good replacement. that is such a big deal, it was striking when i read that, i thought here are a thousand reporters coming to his campaign not one of them picked up anything like that, that the candidate's health was that bad? that she was being considered may be not able to finish? do think reporters knew that? how could they not know that? >> i had a lot of reporters were calling my office, calling my home, texting me, sending me emails. it was reported that i mentioned

that broke the story to me that she had fainted. i immediately called up to brooklyn and i tried to reach people to find out if this was a rumor, as you well know, with the russian meddling in our campaign, and yes, it happened, there were so many rumors that you had to debunk, and so by the time i saw the video, and the video went viral. you can imagine what was happening within the democratict was happening inside of the inner circle. >> tucker: i remember, and everything was fine. >> it was viral. in every five to 7 minutes. hillary is a friend, i cared about her health. i cared about her campaign but the last thing i want, i wanted to know how she was doing. i wanted to know if she was okay. that's why in the book you read that i suggested that she get some acupuncture, because i like acupuncture, it helps me when i'm out there fighting. >> quickly about the russians, you have a lot in the book about that, and your concerns about hacking the servers over at the dnc.

if you believe the russians did that, why didn't the democratic national committee allow the fbi to examine those servers? why were they given over to a vendor and not the u.s. government? >> that is a great question, and let me tell you, it's in the book as well. on the dnc officer, debbie wasserman schultz, when it was brought to her attention, she immediately reached out to get cybersecurity experts on board. she reached out to a former number three at the fbi, who is currently working with an organization called cloud strike. along with our cyber attorney, they provided the fbi with everything that they requested. we were still using -- >> tucker: come on now. bottom line is, it's debbie wasserman schultz who made that decision, i think that the headline here. if you think the intelligence service of a foreign government is breaking into your computers in the campaign you want actual federal investigators to get to the bottom of it. you are saying that she stop that. >> she did not stop that, she

cooperated. she turned over for everything, but we were still running the party. we still had our mainframe being managed, being remediated. >> tucker: but you couldn't allow the fbi access to that. >> we spent over $60,000 to provide the fbi, the government, because we wanted their help. after i received my fbi brief in august, do know what i wanted to do? i wanted to go to the pentagon, i didn't want to go back to the dnc, i wanted some datable yellow tape around the dnc, i was scared. we were under attack. >> tucker: federal investigators never had access to your server! >> if you recall, james comey was under oath and said that he was able to get everything you needed from the dnc. >> tucker: he doesn't know that. he didn't have access to your servers, he shouldn't have said that. >> why would we hold onto servers that were filled with malware? when i became chair, let me just

say this, from august, from the moment i became chair, we cooperated with dhs, fbi, cia, anybody who would help us, we want to help, because our countries -- our country -- our country was under attack. it wasn't just the democratic party. >> tucker: debbie wasserman schultz apparently wouldn't turn them over. >> we turned over the information. >> tucker: and hillary clinton supporter had this to say about you on the show. >> i don't know whether donna brazile is a kook, but what she said is kooky. >> tucker: we will get your response to that next. i will give you 3 minutes to formulate your response to richard goodstein. more with donna brazile in just a minute. ♪ when you have a cold stuff happens.

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>> tucker: taking a look at live pictures of the president of the united states motorcade in beijing, china, the capital city. he's leaving his hotel. welcome back. we are still joined by the former chair of the dnc, donna brazile. it really quick before i get your response in the clip we showed you before the break, when was the last time you talk to bill and/or hillary clinton? >> i didn't hear that, i'm sorry. >> tucker: one was the last time you spoke with bill or hillary clinton, and how did that conversation go? >> in the book i set i spoken hillary in february. i believe that it was february 10th in baltimore when the democratic party was hosting its final future forum to elect new officers for the democratic party. >> tucker: but have you spoken to her -- the reason i'm asking is every democrat i know, the

professional democrats from jeff soccer, all the way to gentle mary and all the people you've worked with over the years, all seem mad, and i know the clintons are in that group, have they complained to you or people you know? what is the response you are getting? >> first of all, let me just say this, last week i reached out to as many clinton staffers as possible to let them know that my book was finally coming out, excerpts. i didn't have to do that. i also flew down to washington, d.c., to inform my colleagues at the dnc, again, i didn't have to do that. i am a democrat, a lifelong democrat, and if they choose not to read the book, or they decide to write their own book, i hope they will do that. i read hillary's book, what happen. it's a great book because it's historical, biographical, and also, as a woman who has been very, very active in politics, i thought she really examined some of the reasons why she fell

short, so i suggest for those who are upset, or not capable of still making my book, write the. i want to respond that last clip that you showed me before the break. >> tucker: 's the one where the male democrat dismissed her claims having experienced sexism by saying you were crazy, something i thought we weren't allowed to do. >> first of all, my mother when i was a kid growing up used to say it's not what they call you, it's what you answer to. i want to channel another woman who i admire so much, and that is michelle obama, who said when they go low, you go high. and perhaps what i did on sunday when i told some of my detractors to go to hell, and some of my conservatives know that i have always had a quick tongue. i told people in the past when i really feel. i should have channeled michelle and just go high. i'm thinking now, you know me and i've known you for a long time, we haven't gone fishing, but i have a lot of kids out

there that know me, that believe in me, they know who i am. i walk the streets in virginia with him just recently. they know that i stand behind them. they are up at harvard, georgetown, and i want them to know that i am still the same donna that they have always known. i'm feisty, and gutsy. and as you well know -- -- >> tucker: they've come after you and said, look, it's a little much for you to criticize the dnc for colluding with the hillary campaign when you conceded that you leaked questions to the hillary campaign during a cnn town hall, before cnn town hall. my question whenever reading this is, did no one at cnn know that happen? did they really learn for the first time when they read your book? how could they not have known that? >> i surely hope now everybody will go out and buy the book. it's called "hacked, the inside story." >> tucker: [laughs] did nobody at cnn know that you did that? you apparently got them from -- >> you cannot put words in my

mouth. that has not forced me to not stand my ground. i said in the book -- >> tucker: i'm asking about cnn. you haven't gone on their air, they are mad at you, obviously. did they know that you leaked these questions, really simple question? >> i said last year -- >> tucker: sounds like you did. >> don't try to put words in my mouth. i said last year that cnn never provided us with any questions. cnn never gave us anything in advance. what i did say, what i have set in the past, and what i say in this book is that as an officer of the dnc -- and i know wikileaks gave everybody certain questions in certain emails, but as an officer of the dnc, i sought to expand the number of debates, and i wanted to make sure that we had diverse voices, and we covered issues that had not been discussed in previous debates, and what i did -- give me one more second, i know it's your show, i'm not trying to take over.

what -- tucker, i know you too well. what i sought to do was to ensure that we had these issues on the table, and i didn't want our candidates blindsided. that's what i admitted to. what wikileaks put out -- >> tucker: sets the greatest span i've ever heard! that so good! you should do this for a living! that is hilarious. >> tucker. weight. wikileaks -- wikileaks sought to divide us. these were active measures where you got to see the things i get to hillary, you never got a chance to see the things i give to bernie or martin o'malley. let me just tell you -- >> tucker: i'm totally happy, you bring those and i will put them on the show. in the book, this is an sincere personal question, it you'd describe a number of personal occasions where you felt threatened personally, where you felt like maybe you might be hurt by somebody, and you are not very specific about who might have hurt you, but it's

clear that you were worried about it. do you still feel that we? are you worried? are you getting threats? >> this was an unusual campaign season last year and at night when donald trump -- i wrote this in the book, and i've gone to church and said to the god i worship that i am not going to hold any anger in my heart, but president trump every night would go out there and say that donna brazile, donna brazile, and you know what, the moment he stopped talking, my emails, my twitter, my phones, it got blown up and i got plenty of threats that were just -- let me just say this -- they were over the top. >> tucker: are you getting them now? are you getting threats right now since the book is? >> of course. when people see things that they disagree with, they don't just say donna, i don't like that, that is not the right kind, -- you know what they say? i would rather not have you or

the gumbo. unfortunately, we live in a world where even appearing on the show tonight, even taking pictures with people i disagree with, people attack you. if they your motives, and everyone who has said donna is making money, first of all, that is a good thing because donna has a lot of mouths to feed. people are questioning why donna would write a book, because donna likes to write. please read the book. this is a great book. >> tucker: i believe amazon has sold out. donna brazile. >> i have a recipe that i think will make your tommy feel really good. let me just say one last thing. i worked very hard to elect hillary clinton, we fell short, but next year, watch out. next year is going to be a blue wave. i hope you have me back on the show. >> tucker: any time. donna brazile, ladies and gentlemen. thanks for joining us. >> thank you, tucker. >> tucker: what does a

hillary clinton backer have to say in response to what you just heard? a former aide to chuck schumer joins us tonight. thanks for coming on. >> any time, tucker. >> tucker: look, we just heard some explanations, not all of which were entirely clear, but the bottom line remains this. donna brazile called early that the campaign was ignoring the basic theme of the season, which was populist economics. she got that, robby mook and the rest of people in brooklyn did not get that. they mistreated her, she said. they did not take her seriously because she was a woman. she says she experienced sexism in that campaign. i don't think that's democrats g democrats can brush off as ridiculous. third, she says that hillary clinton actually really was sick, genuinely sick, and that someone who was running the democratic party and wanted her to win was so worried, she thought about replacing her. those are not small things. >> no, they are not small things, but i will say in

defense of the sexism charge, they treated a lot of people poorly, and is probably why they are not president right now. there was a lot of grassroots activists that were very turned off by what was going on in brooklyn, and that was a major flaw in the campaign, and as they do the autopsy of that campaign, that's one of the things that gets repeated over and over by people who i know that are close to it. >> tucker: that's an honest response and i've heard that from a lot of people, but it glides over the core irony here, the campaign's whole rationale was empowering women, was treating at least one woman less wealth because she was a woman. next is him from the hillary campaign. i mean that -- honestly, that's like pita opening a butcher shop. it's weird. >> i listen to the entire interview, it was a great interview, and i don't think she really confirmed that it was sexism, but it definitely was -- she was treated poorly. she was treated poorly by them, and i don't doubt that at all.

there was this i'm smarter than you, leave me alone attitude from that campaign, which was part of their flaw, and donna brazile was right, they were ignoring the signs in the street because they were trusting those algorithms too much, and that's what happens when you do that i guess. you've got to be in both places. >> tucker: i think that's right, the jet rather than admit -- that's clearly true, it's clearly true, and yet rather than admit it, you are seeing this weird little cult around hillary gather round and think of ways to rebut donna brazile's book. instead of just conceding it was a badly run campaign. they lost, why was that it was their intent think? >> let me key in on a word you succumb a little cult. it is a very little cult at this point. most of the people who are against donald trump have moved on, that was very evident last night in virginia and other places in the country. there will be loyalists who will

fight to the death to every last criticism of the campaign and of her, i think it's a very small group, and i think most people have moved on at this point. >> tucker: it seems to include an awful lot of reporters, which is why it annoys me, but i think your point is probably fair. chris, thank you. >> any time. >> tucker: one of the most interesting revelations from donna brazile, mark stein joins us after this. we are also with watching the president's welcome ceremony in beijing, china, we will be right back with that as well. ♪

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e*trade. the original place to invest online. >> what i sought to do was ensure that we had these issues on the table, and i made sure that our candidates -- i didn't want them blindsided. that's what i admitted to, what wikileaks put out -- -- >> tucker: that's the greatest men i've ever heard. [laughs] that's so good! you should do this for a living! that is hilarious. >> tucker: leaked the questions because a candidate because she didn't want her blindsided. mark steyn is an off them authd columnist, seen plenty of political scandals in his caree career. i don't typically laugh in the middle of an interview, but i didn't want them blindsided. she didn't answer my question. it's hard to believe that nobody knew that had happened. maybe nobody did, but it's hard to believe that.

>> she answered with one of the all-time great lines in the history of broadcasting. she said you should have seen the things i leaked to martin o'malley. and actually i would like to see that, because i believe that is actually a big box of nothing. i like her as much as everyone likes her, and you should go fishing with her. i would rather go fishing with donna brazile then go fishing with hillary clinton because you get the feeling you will be sleeping with the fishes by the end of the afternoon if you go fishing with hillary, but i do not -- she says a lot -- i do not believe that martin o'malle o'malley, his email account was buzzing with helpful nonblind siding leaks from donna brazile. >> tucker: kind of hard to imagine that. it's interesting, though, the venom that has come out from democrats since this book emerged. hillary lost, it was obviously a

massive failure on her part, that is not hidden, democrats know that. and yet, democrat after democrat said, many in the media basically, why would you betray the party, especially before a critical election, yesterday's election? they were infuriated by the timing of this. kind of a stalinist response i thought. >> that party has always had since the clinton years. they don't have john mccains. they don't have figures who sell themselves to the public by standing against their own parties. you made an interesting point, when you said you wondered why so many media figures take hillary's side on this. i think hillary is two kinds of supporters. she has bagman like the outgoing virginia governor, terry mccullough, who basically looks at the clintons and things i would like to be doing sleazy, ten figure deals with oligarchs just like bill and hillary do. and then you have media figures who say i would like to be

getting six-figure psalms for clinton foundation speeches in africa that nobody can listen to, and i think if you actually take those two groups out, you get to the problem here. the reason the democrat party has lurched left is because the moderate centrist wing is represented by a corrupt, dynastic cryptography, i.e. the clintons. they have tainted democrat moderation and -- >> tucker: that's very smart and very sad, by the way. a party ought to have a vibrant, centrist wing, and they don't. i've never thought of that, that's a really smart point. mark steyn, thank you. you always make me feel better. >> thanks a lot, tucker. >> tucker: yesterday was a bad night electorally for republicans. what does it mean going forward? there are lessons from it, and we will have those next. we are also watching president trump's welcome ceremony in beijing, china, and we will be right back. ♪

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♪ >> tucker: at last night's elections were pretty awful for republicans. bill de blasio, who is probably the least impressive mayor in the united states, easily won another term in new york city. democrats took the new jersey governor's mansion installing yet another goldman sachs alone to political power. in washington state democrats won the senate and with it, total control of the government. but republicans have the very worst night in virginia. ralph northam beat former rnc chairman ed gillespie by nine points. three points than hillary clinton's performance in virginia last fall, almost seven points ahead of governor terry mcauliffe's win four years ago and which are near. yesterday morning, to put it in perspective, republicans had two-thirds of virginia's house of delegates. now, depending on how a few races shake out, democrats should have a majority. it was a route. how did it happen?

donald trump isn't popular in virginia, that's part of the reason, but it's not the whole story. democrats won after embracing the dark side of politics, embracing fears and deepening divisions. ed gillespie was a pro-immigration moderate, but the readout liable allies in the press dismissed him as a waxy premises. it northam's allies ran the single ugliest political ad in living memory. a charge republicans want to hunt down and murder nonwhite children. the ad didn't take a political argument, it didn't take a position on taxes, crime, the environment, or schools, or anything that might make a statement or the country a better place. it's only purpose was to terrify and divide. this is the politics of racial hatred. vote for me because the other guy wants to murder your kids. our opponent isn't misguided, he's evil. there is no defending an ad like that, but democrats did it anyway. in the normal party, someone with perceived moral authority would have stepped forward to

denounce the ad. barack obama, may become more bill and hillary clinton, but all of them were silent, and allowed the race baiting to continue in virginia, and it did. this is an ominous development in american politics, precisely because it worked so well. democrats across the country inevitably will imitate what just happened in virginia and they will probably win a bunch of races as a result. you would think they would care about the consequences of sowing racial division and are already racially divided country, but they care about winning more. northam's victory tells you a lot about the democrat strategy going forward. the party has all but stopped making rational arguments or even trying to win and swing over to its position. that is time-consuming, requires compromise. it's much easier to change the composition of the voter base. if more than 50 years after ted kennedy's immigration act, it's no longer even necessary for democrats to win native-born, middle-class americans who work in the private sector, so they stop trying. virginia has transformed politically because it has

transformed demographically. for example, in 1970, 1% of that state was born outside the united states. today that number is 12%. of 12% of a virginia is foreign-born. that has made all the difference. if you are wondering why the idea of national borders suddenly so unpopular among democratic officeholders, if you're wondering why the deadly plague of opiate addiction in middle america causes barely a store in washington, now you know the answer. they are not their base anymore, they replaced you. you shouldn't get too apocalyptic about any one election result, although today marks the one-year anniversary of what pretty much is beyond a doubt the most remarkable election result in the past 40 years. turned out to be a humbling event for the press, which went into the race absolutely to a person believing hillary clinton could not lose. >> not only did florida falter hillary clinton, but the selection overall.

we could be talking landslide. >> trump is headed for a historic defeat. >> i think she's going to have a very good night. >> i continue to believe mr. trump will not be president. and the reason is because i have a lot of faith in the american people. >> tucker: you will be shocked to learn that bret stephens was wrong, and everyone else too. if these experts and some celebrities showed what they thought of the results, and the american people's choice immediately upon learning about it. watch. >> america is crying tonight. i'm not sure how much of america, but a very, very significant portion. i mean literally crying. >> deeper concerns tonight that the world's shining light of democracy has gone dark. >> because my attitudes about things, they came up to me and they are scared, depressed, despaired him a desperate even. almost clinging to me. >> you have people putting children to bed tonight, and they are afraid of breakfast. they are afraid of how do i explain this to my children?

>> that's a pretty extraordinary thing to say if you have a son in the marine corps, and that you don't trust the commander in chief. people in the military defend the constitution. >> the message that i want to spread to other women is exactly what you are saying, not to give up. sorry, i hate [bleep] crying. >> she deserves to be the first female president. and that's what makes me sad. they kill anybody but donald trump! anyone ! >> the ruling class was hysterical, why were they? because it all disempowered them. they thought they were in charge, and they weren't. remember that. powerful liberal -- time to remove "the star-spangled banner" as the national anthem. why? we will talk with someone who agrees with that next. ♪ [ laughter ] yes, even the awkward among us deserve some laughter.

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♪ >> tucker: the california branch of the naacp is calling for "the star-spangled banner" to have its status as our national anthem revoked. the group recently approved a resolution calling the anthem "one of the most racist proslavery, antiblack songs in the american lexicon." chase tickles as a lecturer in african-american studies at the university of maryland. maryland of course being where the poem was first written, and he joins us, thank you. i think everything about this is ludicrous. there are tons of problems in america, including the african-american community, this is like number 9,000 on the lis list, but just the specifics of it. this is the song that celebrates the participation of black soldiers. i don't really know -- it's right in there. i don't know how this is a racist anthem. i honestly don't know what they're talking about. >> first of all, we have to enter in a war that has been missing from our discourse for about at least the last year.

that is unity. does this song have a unifying message? when it's talking about murdering hirelings and slaves, it doesn't necessarily sound like that is something that will bring about unity. i look at other anthems that we have had around the world, for example i know every word to the puerto rican anthem. when you listen to that -- >> tucker: you like that one better? >> it's a beautiful song and i think we can do better in representing each and every. >> tucker: if we had an anthem that calls for murdering americans of any kind, free or enslaved, i would be against that. >> so you're saying the descendants of those slaves, who are americans like me, that their feelings, or anything doesn't matter? >> i think they do matter, i think they do, i just don't know where you're getting that. there's no where in the song that says anything like it. >> the song mention slavery in the land of the free in the same stanza. that makes a sound kind of contradictory to the world.

>> tucker: sort of the declaration of the constitution. this was written in 1814. >> the constitution makes no -- >> tucker: it does. the song does not call for the murder of any american. here it is. it will thus be it ever one freemen shall stand, that is african-americans, free between their beloved homes in the worst desolation, blessed and the victory of peace, made the heavens plus the land. >> let's go to the third stanza. >> tucker: here's the third stanza. >> it's extremely violent. >> tucker: but it is not against americans. >> it's against slaves. >> tucker: british soldiers and whether they are hirelings or slaves, anybody was fighting on behalf of the british. a battle from a war against a foreign power. >> understood. slaves who were fighting for their own freedom under whatever circumstances, you believe that we should as a nation have an anthem that talks about their death? >> i couldn't be more opposed to

slavery, obviously. my only point is that the song is about fighting british sources and whoever is coming from the other country, we don't care what your status is, if you are coming here to fight as we will beat you because it's a song about war. >> sure that really be our national anthem? shouldn't it be about the beauty that america is, like america the beautiful? >> the beautiful of the flag-waving over fort mchenry. we won back and we are still a country, it's awesome. >> the other thing we have to understand is this wasn't our anthem 1931 when it became a national anthem. >> we shouldn't argue for tradition for tradition's sake. that's what the argument people made for jim crow. >> tucker: it has nothing to to do with jim crow, obviously. the u.s. navy with her official flag raising song in the 1880s 1880s. >> as our national anthem it did not happen until 1931. >> tucker: so what? for every living american this has been our anthem, no one has ever seen any racial overtones.

>> i teach it every semester. >> you do because you are trying to subvert the national simply because you are a left-winger, but the truth is it's not inherent to the text, it's not there. >> did you read that? >> tucker: you are wrong. >> you absolutely started to cut it off. >> tucker: i didn't. >> enslaved people because they didn't have the right to citizenship, their lives didn't matter? >> tucker: because they are british soldiers, that's the point, because they are foreign soldiers. they enslave them and they shouldn't have, i agree with that, but we are against people we are fighting. that's it. anyway, spend your time doing wholesome things. thanks for coming on. at the press has been fearmongering on guns for a long time but "usa today" just took it to an unbelievable new level. this is real, we checked. you can't miss this, stay tuned. ♪ what started as a passion...

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♪ >> tucker: what if you took the deadliest weapon journalist can imagine and combine it with a landscaping tool that none of them have held in her hands? that would be the scariest thing ever. it like a reese's peanut butter cup of death. horrifyingly, this weapon exist. at the chocolate part is the ar-15, a rifle so wicked the press mistakenly calls it the assault rifle 15. at the tasty peanut butter, the chainsaw, just like the ones using evil dead and the texas chainsaw massacre. turns out the chainsaw bayonet is real, it you can attach it to your ar-15, at least according to the fever dreams of "usa today," which they released an online video scaremongering about the possibility of an ar-15 chainsaw bayonet, a rampage of death and discussion. at mass shooters are bad enough, what if they were able to prune shrubs as well? congress must act! that's about it for us to ignite.

that's all real, by the way. tune in every night to the show that is the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity and groupthink. have a fantastic night, sean hannity is next. good night from washington. ♪ >> sean: welcome to hannity and this is a fox news alert. president trump is in beijing for a highly anticipated sitdown, meeting with china's president. we will bring that live when it happens, but first we are following several major breaking stories tonight. tonight it has been one year, remember where you work, since president trump's historic and massive landslide election victory. since then, the mainstream media, the left in this country have been in full on freak out mode. we will highlight all of the out-of-control insanity and obstruction. then, the left still giddy from last night's election results, but they are not telling you the truth about what it really means. we will set the record straight. also, former dnc chair