trees upside down for $1042, harry you're selling them $1041. >> pete: yeah so do it. thanks for joining us. >> lisa: bye guys. >> griff: welcome to fox & friends.com. >> dagen: protesters kicked off about police ticking off shopper s in chicago during the kickoff to this crucial holiday shopping season. are they helping or hurting their cause? hi everybody i'm dagen mcdowell this is bulls & bears. the bulls & bears this week, gary b. smith, joan as max ferris, john layfield along with patrice lee and julie alvin. welcome to everybody. john do these protests do more to hurt the cause? >> john: they do because forget about whether the cause is good or bad. i agree with a lot of what they're protesting but the problem is this we have this year in the united states 7600 retail stores closing compare that to 6800 that close at the

height of the recession. you're protesting these retail stores in chicago and chicago's tax base has been eroded. all you're going to do is drive people to buy more stuff online or to not shop. the problem you have in chicago right now specifically with the police department, with social services, is politicians. that you should be protesting. you have $62 billion in unfunded pension and debt obligations into the city of chicago only $ 0.33 out of every dollar promised by these politicians who knew they couldn't pay for it is funded right now and to go out there and to hurt retail, you're hurting your own city by doing this and yes, i think the cause is lost. >> dagen: patrice do these protests help or hurt their cause because they do have the attention and they do get in front of television cap ares. >> it doesn't help. i mean if your idea is to win people who are either agnostic or opposing you, to create a scenario where you're either cutting the tax base as the other guest mentioned or making it difficult for workers to get to work or shoppers to get to shop when you're not winning

people over to your cause. criminal justice reform is a critical issue if this is what they're protesting about but this year this isn't what they are going after. last year they tried to unseat ram emmanuel and it didn't work so they may reassess whether they are accomplishing what they set out to do. >> dagen: gary b., help or hurt? >> i think it hurts to be honest with you. i agree with patrice and john made some very good points. as far as the hurt part point, it certainly hurts the retailers when they did this back in 2015, those retailers along the miracle mile there in chicago said their sales were up 25-50%. that means the people coming down just turned around and went elsewhere. i guarantee because i'm this way , people live in their own little bubble. they're not going down there see ing a protest and saying i really ought to do something about that. no what they are is annoyed that they can't do their shopping, so

they turn around as john points out it hurts the city of chicago as patrice said people are agnostic, they're not paying attention to this. it's not the right environment. they have their minds on something else so it at best it does nothing but as we seen with the nfl what happens with their protest, people just turn off the tv and look elsewhere for entertainment. >> dagen: julie i will point out that when these protests in chicago first started it was back in 2015 it was after the la quan macdonald shooting video came out but since then in the two years after that, you just haven't had the number of protesters out there. >> well i think that's why it's interesting for you guys to say that the reason that retail sales were down last year and chicago on black friday have to do with the protest when in fact the protest didn't really reach critical mass last year. that said the question is are we helping or hurting the cause and the cause is raising awareness for police violence, not is it helping or hurting the local retail economy.

it's certainly helping the cause as far as raising awareness. there is a lot of studies that show that protest is an effective form of raising awareness of getting policy makers to pay attention of getting communities to be politically activated so if the goal is to raise awareness and get people to start taking action against what has been some pretty scary police action in chicago specifically with the macdonald case and it's helping that particular cause absolutely >> dagen: but jonas, what's scary is the fact the homicide number in chicago this year topped 600 for only the second time in more than a decade. >> well it's a sign the protests are failing because we've reached like protest already. if you told me there was less protest with trump in the white house than obama over police brutality i would have been like that's not likely because we miss manage the protest because i think earlier to your point people don't know why they are at the root of the retailers like i don't these protests should be at city hall or the police stations, these are legitimate issues but the public just wants to shop and this isn't about wages. >> dagen: speaking of ongoing

beats, unions have a beef with wal-mart. wal-mart is always open including on thanksgiving, and one pro union group is running this ad about it. >> hard working wal-mart workers with no holiday pay and no chance for a better life so this thanksgiving give thanks for one thing that you don't work for wal-mart. >> dagen: so that's this pro- union ad, gary b., but they used to actually protest like 1600 stores a few years ago on black friday. that stopped now this. >> exactly here is the funny thing you'd think that wal-mart workers themselves will be just disgusted with their pay, unhappy with wal-mart. that union you are talking about the ufcw couldn't even get wal-mart to participate. the people participating in the protest are non-wal-mart workers and other union members they

bust in, so on average the average wal-mart person is very happy with their working conditions and their pay so this is another thing that is just up in the air and it's as julie points out it might be causing awareness but there's no follow on or follow-up action to it. >> dagen: but patrice i think what the unions are concerned about is if you could in theory if you protest enough, if you drop customers away from these stores you actually destroy jobs for people. you send people shopping online and you actually hurt workers whether they're unionized or not >> and that's the unintended consequence of their what they're trying to do. i know someone who works for wal-mart was an immigrant new to this country and worked his way up and built skills and was able to move beyond just that wal-mart job and i think that's the story that gets lost when you have these unions that are hitting an easy target which is wal-mart talking about people not being able to spend time with their families. perhaps they're already known

what their schedule is and made alternative scheduling with their families, so this is just the unions trying to stay relevant and trying to grow their ranks which have been increasingly shrinking. >> dagen: right and john you do at wal-mart if you work on a holiday you earn a day of paid vacation and when i worked in hospitality business among other jobs that i've had, do you know what? you had to work on holidays it's just a fact. >> yeah, it is just a fact and a lot of people are very thankful to have a job and wal-mart has done more for lower skilled pay than unions have. wal-mart is the one that did away with the minimum wage and target felt compelled to follow suit. this is one of the most miss guided ads i've neverly ever seen and one of the reasons unions have died and you've got to understand i'm not sure why wal-mart is so evil. listen to what amazon they have a 25% growth rate right now so the next three years they are doing as much to retail as far as damage they have done in the past 20 years, total. we lost more jobs in retail than

we've lost in manufacturing and going after retail right now, people should be thankful they have jobs because online is coming and it's going to destroy a lot of mom and pop stores with good jobs. >> dagen: and julie the average full time hourly worker at wal-mart makes at least at the beginning of this year makes close to $14 an hour. >> well i think one thing that's interesting is to say going back to the initial point made that they couldn't get wal-mart employees to participate in these protests a lot is because they feared that they would face punitive action. you know, there have been a lot of charges against wal-mart for paying women less than men, for miss treating pregnant employees , for having sick leave , and disability leave, policies that are bordering on illegal so to say that wal-mart is treating its employees really really well, i think that that is-- >> dagen: well 75% of the store managers started out as hourly employees and they moved up to making between 50 and $170,000 a year so they wouldn't have stayed with wal-mart if

they were treated poorly and in fact, they have really improved their health insurance for example, in recent years. jonas, final word? >> i think the mistake here is again again a legitimate issue of workers being dead end and income equality and yet the illusion is that somehow the amazon workers on thanksgiving are at the spa and no one is working there. those jobs are also pretty hard and don't pay that much and don't always have upside, and just focusing on the visible worker and simply oh, the problem is solved we shutdown wal-mart it's like when we moved kid labor to abroad, the problem didn't go away. we just don't have it in america any more so the problem is overworkers are treated well so i think they made a mistake. >> dagen: thanks guys and gals cavuto on business about 20 minutes from now neil what have you got? >> neil: dagen had to do with lower taxes? you may want to hold off on the u-haul. what some democrats are considering to keep you from moving. and guess which generation is back to buying homes? the answer will have everyone

smiling. see you soon. >> dagen: thank you, neil. we can't wait but up here first still reeling over the kneeling president trump blasting another nfl player and a possible new game plan that could keep all players off the field during the anthem, next. of the season. and it's now just $59! but the real gift isn't what's inside the box. it's what's inside the person who opens it. ♪ give ancestrydna, the only dna test that can trace your origins to over 150 ethnic regions- and open up a world of possibilities. save 40% at ancestrydna.com. the lowest price of the year! ends monday.

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>> live from americas headquarters i'm kelly write in washington. it's being called the deadliest terror attack in modern egyption history. officials confirming more than 300 people killed after a gunman opened fire on a crowded mosque yesterday. the assault targeted muslims in the northern sinai region and no one has claimed responsibility but the local isis affiliate has a history of attacking members of the movement. the navy has released identities of the three service members lost in a plane crash in the phillipine sea. lieutenant steven comes of florida, airman matthew chilastr

i of louisiana and brian grasso of florida on their way to the uss ronald reagan wednesday when their transport went down. american and japanese crews combed nearly 1000 nautical miles before calling off the search, now back to bulls & bears. >> dagen: ahead of tomorrow's games president trump slamming a new york giants nfl player for kneeling on thanksgiving. as the military hero was singing our national anthem. the president tweeting "can you believe the disrespect for our country, our flag, our anthem continues without penalty to the player"? the commissioner has lost control of the hemorrhaging league, players. patrice you say that the president has it right on this? >> i actually think he's correct this national anthem protest are really not about police brutality or criminal justice reform as some of the players suggest and you know, they instead they're trying to

unfortunately the left has used this as a tool to divide americans based on race rather than trying to put forward a positive vision for what they can do. you know and to their idea that maybe nfl players should be kept in the back until the national anthem is sung, that's not going to change their behavior. if they're authentic about what they claim they're protesting for they will find another way to be disruptive and at the end of the day they will be the one to suffer. >> dagen: gary b., does the president have it right on this? >> he does have it right and patrice made some very good points. the only thing i would kind of twist a little bit is i don't like president trump being involved in this. this is i know he speaks kind of for the every man and i respect that but this is beneath him. he doesn't need to get involved with the nfl. they're putting out a lousy product right now all by themselves. witness the miami dolphins which i have to follow each week.

it's a horrible product. the nfl is doing more harm to themselves than they ever could do as a result of president trump tweeting. let them hoist themselves in their own direction if you will and then they will change. it doesn't have to be the president to get involved. >> dagen: to dairy b.'s point john of the rough nearly 1700 players in the nfl, they're one giant, two dolphins and one oakland raider that didn't stand for the national anthem this past week and one stayed in the tunnel. so he's pointing out something a behavior that is very few player s in the league. >> very few players in the league and we can't assign motives and say how they are that's being able to mind read and that's impossible to do. i had to deal with this because i'm part of the major league, our season is next year we had a league meeting to decide what we do with anthem protest and even though i personally agree with what they say they are

protesting as inequality and judicial system and incarceration rates among minorities we decided all should stand and respect every national anthem and that's the way they should going forward but the nfl is a business to gary b.'s point they have a right to do whatever they want. >> dagen: jonas, does the president is it right these men need to stand? >> well he's right about the part about where they talk about sticking them in the locker room that's the craziest thing i can't even imagine how dumb that is but the nfl players are actually if you want to raise awareness of issue they're doing a much better job than the union unions and all of the groups we're talking about it's relatively interesting and whether you agree with it or not they are raising the issue at the point of doing it they have a right to do it, they're celebrities i like my sports hero being politically agitated even though i don't agree with their politics so i think they need to be staying up for this and i don't think he's right about them not doing it. he's right about the mistakes he made to the nfl. >> dagen: but we have to point out prior to 2009 the players

typically did not stand out on the field during the national anthem. >> right, precisely so to say this is a new idea like donald trump tweeted today in fact i believe it's an idea that they're coming out within reaction to the fact that donald trump has created such a huge st ink about this so when patrice said this is about the left being divisive this is not about our president being divisive. he is the one driving this narrative and so i think that the nfl is kind of saying okay, maybe we'll just opt out of this because apparently this is something that the president of the united states thinks it's worth his time and to agree with gary b. i'd rather my president find this below him and focus on things more important like why is he spending his time on this? >> dagen: patrice you get the final word on this but the president didn't start it and there are a lot of americans who are angry that people cannot respect the anthem. >> you know what's interesting is these protests had dwindled down to nothing at the very

beginning of the season and it wasn't until president trump did tweet which to the point of some of my colleagues here that all of a sudden this anti-trump resurgence of interest in the protest came forward. again, i stand by my comments about the motives of these guys. i really hope criminal justice reform supporter and i hope they are here but if they are not it's hard to believe they are really being sincere and not just stepping up as soon as the president says something about it because they feel slighted by him. >> dagen: thank you, ladies and gentlemen. cashing in just over an hour from now, trish regan, what do you have coming up? >> trish: hi dagen. new revelations in the uranium one scandal what an sci informant uncovered about russia and what it could mean for hillary clinton. plus, north korea declared a stay sponsor of terrorism by president trump. could this convince them to finally dismantle their nuclear program? cashing in see you at 11:30. >> dagen: thank you trish we'll be watching but up here first the white house pushing back

after a judge blocked president trump's crack down on sanctuary cities. who has it right? we debate, you decide. how much money do you think you'll need in retirement? then we found out how many years that money would last them. how long do you think we'll keep -- oooooohhh! you stopped! you're gonna leave me back here at year 9? how did this happen? it turned out, a lot of people fell short, of even the average length of retirement. we have to think about not when we expect to live to, but when we could live to. let's plan for income that lasts all our years in retirement. prudential. bring your challenges.

>> dagen: a judge shooting down the white house plan cracking down on illegal immigrants in the city sheltering them why that may make it harder to bring taxes down plus how online shopping could help one brick-and-mortar name,

>> dagen: a new legal battle over sanctuary cities is brewing the federal judge permanently blocking president trump's plan to withhold federal funding for cities protecting illegal immigrants. the justice department vowing to fight this. patrice, whose right on this one >> i actually think it's interesting, as much as i want to see sanctuary cities disappear, i believe the president potential overreach

and kind of violating federalism and the idea of the tenth amendment could place them at a disadvantage here. >> dagen: gary b.? >> i tend to agree. there's two points. people forget we are a confederacy of states. we're not a dictatorship. we're made up of the states and the states have rights equal if not superior to the federal government and second of all the funding is controlled by congress not by the president. congress wants to decide against it that's them. it's not president trump's issue to get involved with. >> dagen: julie? >> exactly. if trump wants to bully sanctuary cities constitutional ly he needs congress to write those rules and what he's trying to do is slightly unconstitutional. >> dagen: maybe congress can step up for the family of kate s tinley. the deliberations in that case continue monday. jonas? >> first of all they will already financially punish california and they are taking the away the deduction for state tax. they pay more state tax than anybody and second of all the solution is in federal

immigration troops you don't takeaway their allowance even though it's tempting because some of the places need their allowance taken away once in a while. >> dagen: but how do you force john, these municipalities and cities to enforce federal law? >> look they just aren't going to enforce it but everybody is right about this the separation of powers here it's constitutionally a violation if the president overrides congress because they are the one that direct the spending but the problem we have is congress and we have an incompetent congress who has no immigration policy. if we had an immigration policy sanctuary cities would not manifest thyself. >> dagen: let's call on congress to step it up. thank you guys and a very special thanks to patrice and julie for being with us on this holiday week. thank you ladies. >> thank you. >> dagen: amazon looks over its shoulder because someone here says an overseas rival may be taking over. that could give you over-the-top profit.

>> dagen: predictions. gary b., go. >> dagen you know where john goes to look for a 747 that he's going to buy? you can buy one on allie back a. this stock is killing it their black friday is bigger than amazon stock up 30% by this time next year. >> dagen: jonas, are you a baba fan? >> he takes it from someone not looking. i will say no i'm not ready to reinflict the chinese stock bubble quite yet. >> dagen: john, your prediction? >> at&t has 5.5% yield while waiting on the time-warner deal the stock is up 20% i do own it. >> dagen: gary b., are you long? >> no, i'm not. just had a what we call an unauthorized stock split this year, it's down but if you like that it might be good for you. >> dagen: jonas? >> you're not getting on my plane then. >> dagen: [laughter] jonas, quick? >> cyber monday, black friday who wins online, brick-and-mortar, you need

brick-and-mortar to build the factory, up 25% in one year. >> dagen: john? >> it's thanksgiving and you're talking about investing, come on . >> dagen: neil now. >> neil: well is it this or some democrats are now rethinking tax hikes on the rich, hi, everyone i'm neil cavuto and with republicans in washington pushing to take state and local tax deductions away, some democrats in high tax states like new jersey for example, are worried that any hike now will millionaires away. >> after i got elected i said first thing on the agenda is the millionaires tax we got to get it for school funding and then this happens and it's like wait a minute. i got to take a step back and be more pragmatic and think about what's best for the state of new jersey. you know, 1% of the people in the state of new jersey pay about 42% of its tax base and they can leave. >> neil: yeah they can and that